Teleportation Mafia Universe TWO (TOWN WINS)

[DocPotter]

Day 1 Vote Count

animorpherv1 ( 0 )
Anon ( 0 )
DeathRowKitty ( 0 )
DocPotter ( 0 )
don_johnson ( 1 ) DeathRowKitty
Ellibereth ( 0 )
Elmo ( 0 )
fhqwhads ( 0 )
Jack ( 2 ) Kairyuu Lowell
Jahudo ( 1 ) Maelyn
Kairyuu ( 2 ) Jack DocPotter
Kise ( 0 )
Lowell ( 0 )
Maelyn ( 5 ) Jahudo Ellibereth animorpherv1 Anon Nicodemus
Nicodemus ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 4 ) don_johnson Elmo fhqwhads Kise
Total ( 15 )

With 15 alive, 8 needed to lynch.
Deadline: 2/8 11am

Vote Kairyuu

You plan is not good. We can only do one pull every three nights, and once the scum get players crossed over, they can NK the confirmed townie pretty quickly anyway. We wouldn't even have the problem of the two scum groups hitting the same target as this plan needs the nights to be apart. (Otherwise the two teleporters would be NK'ed before they could teleport) All we would achieve is to severly damage the towns ability to teleport for little net gain.

Let alone the problem of one teleporter claiming and the universe he/she is in going into night before the other universe can pull them.

But pushing a bad plan is on thing, voting for someone who points out that it is bad is annother, hence my vote.

Our best bet will probably be to push the most useless/lurkers/obv scum and pull the most obvtown at the teleporters descretion.

[Kairyuu]

Why thank you Mr. Blatant OMGUS. I'm quite happy with my vote.

@Ellibereth: Please note that my plan involves both the confirming and the mixing for optimal effectiveness, while Jack does not want to deal with the fact that he would be contending against confirmed townies that he'd be forced to kill to keep from multiplying.

[Kairyuu]

@DocPotter: First of all, with my plan we'd be "mixing" every other Night, not every 3rd as you suggest. Pulling is not even important to the idea of using the teleporter as a pseudo-vig that seems to be the general consensus here also.

Secondly, the mixing plan is the one that has the potential for little net gain. If we successfully make it so that there are scum in each game, the likelyhood is that either the scum will continue to kill in their original universe (or whatever one they have more members in) or that we'd be dealing with 2 kills/Night in one universe, and that we could potentially have the scum teleporter use its ability as a second kill from one team. All that just to give the POTENTIAL of a crosskill. Excuse me if I find that a little stupid. I'll bow to the will of the town on this one, but my preference is for my original plan, with the one altered to allow mixing as an alternative if it's still refused.

[Kairyuu]

For clarification: Using the teleporters as pseudo-vigs will lead to the obvious conclusion that universe 1 will do the same (potentially by giving us our problems right back).

In addition, if we coordinate Nights as I suggested, then we should not have the problem of one teleporter getting killed off before the other can target them, since when the submissions are entered both will be valid targets (considering no deaths will have happened yet).

[DocPotter]

But in mixing it, in saying that we are sending them our most scummy, their mafia will be forced to NK them if the town doesn't lynch, or run the risk of the oponent mafia group getting a foothold.
If they do the same to us, our universes mafia will be in the same boat.
If the person they send us survives the night without being NK'ed they are automatically added to the list of possible scum A's, giving us a finite list to look at if we wear two kills in a night or if we start seeing different kill flavours. Of course if that list starts to grow too big, we can just send some of them back.

Your plan seems to just deprive us of the teleporter. Being the teleporter must be more than just a way of getting yourself killed.

[Nicodemus]

@Mykonian in U1: since you're against all teleporting between universes, how do you feel about the kairyuu's plan to have the teleporters claim? Is this beneficial to town, and to both universes?

Confirmed townies are cool. So yes, Kai already knows he is brilliant, I just confirm it.

mykonian agrees with kairyuu, if that means anything.

I'm pretty sure I do as well. Having a confirmed townie every other day will narrow the pool of possible scum, which is a big plus. I think that on even days though, we should still be sending our scummiest players over to U1.

[DocPotter]

For clarification: Using the teleporters as pseudo-vigs will lead to the obvious conclusion that universe 1 will do the same (potentially by giving us our problems right back).

In addition, if we coordinate Nights as I suggested, then we should not have the problem of one teleporter getting killed off before the other can target them, since when the submissions are entered both will be valid targets (considering no deaths will have happened yet).

But the NK's come before the teleports, so the claims would have to come before the NK's.

If for example, Zoraster claims teleporter so that Slicey can target him we have several problems.

1: Zor's universe may have already pushed a scum, so with scum in both universes it doesn't appear to matter what universe their target is in. When Zor's univers goes night, Zor dies to NK.

2: Slicey's univers may have already managed to push scum into Zor's universe so before Slicey can pull Zor the scum in his universe can NK Zor.

3: If, as I think you are saying bu feel free to correct me if Im wrong, that both teleporters should claim at the same time, and given that you are saying that the nights should overlap as I think you are, the mafia of whichever universe hits night first can target their town teleporter.

4: If it's that close to being co-ordinated nights, as soon as Zor claims the mafia in his universe can try and lynch first, letting them hit the teleporter.

5: and not a huge posibility imo. They could burn the day teleporton on Zor as soon as Zor claims. Possible near endgame I supose. After all, anyone who gets day teleported is going to be suspicious.

6: False claim teleporter. Especially if the scum haven't teleported yet.

[Kairyuu]

@Doc: Now I'm not quite sure if you're deliberately ignoring the positives of my plan and the negatives of your own, if you've decided that I'm an easy target, or if you're actually failing to comprehend my words. Which is it?

The mafia have no reason to kill off anyone who is teleported for the simple fact that they know the town will likely lynch those players for their actions in the other universe. As such, teleported townies will be prime mislynch fodder, and teleported scum will not hurt the "home" scumteam by dying. In addition to that, the game where each faction has the most members is almost definitely going to be the game that they kill in. For that reason, unless we manage to send 2 of our scum over there (or get stuck with 2 of the universe 1 scum), there will be no "second kill" to indicate whether or not there are any scum among the teleported.

For this reason it is FAR more likely that the number of teleported players will have become too large for the "home" towns to deal with by the time anyone thinks of starting to lynch them assuming they hold like you want, and alternately will be perfect myslynch fodder for the "home" scumteam if they DO decide to lynch.

The ONLY time we should think about using the teleporters as vigs is if we have the potential to win the game by doing so. Until then we should simply proceed with my original plan, using the teleporters as a means to force the scumkill, and we should coordinate Nights.

As for your last point, being the teleporter IS more than just a way of getting yourself killed assuming my plan is followed. It gives you confirmed town status for the entirety of the Day, and then at Night it gives you the ability to pass on that confirmed townie status, while remaining confirmed yourself if the scum don't kill you, and you still pass on the confirmed status even if you DO die. It may all but guarentee that you get killed, but at the same time it allows you to provide an excellent benefit to the town as a whole, which, as a townie, you should be perfectly amenable to.

Preview Edit:

1. Doesn't mean anything in terms of my plan. Coordinated Nights are important.
2. Same as 1
3. Same as 1 and 2
4. That would reveal at least one scum, which makes it even BETTER for the town.
5. All that would do is keep the teleporter confirmed and give us another as soon as Night hits, which is a huge boon to the other universe, and no loss to ours, while at the same time hurting the scumteam that wasted the teleport.
6. Since this is an open game that would cause a 1-1, which would guarentee a dead scum. Also a huge benefit to us.

All of your points are either negligible or would actually HELP the town.

[Ellibereth]

Ugh, I agree with DGB.

All that strategy talk in Universe 2 has given me a splitting headache.

I'm going to find scum, the rest of you can puree your brains with the strategy.

At a glance Doc's points all do seem to be dubious though.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but would this matter at all if we just lynched scum?

[animorpherv1]

The MtG subgamescould help us.They had teleporters.

That is all three links, btw.

[DocPotter]

That's part of the point Elli. We don't lynch those that are sent to us. At worst we push them back.

We try and force the scum NK's onto undesirables instead of onto confirmed townies.

Kair, you really need to explain this much better because as far as I can see, all we are doing is killing townies for little gain, and burning own only power role. And minimising the pool that the mason's can hide in too.

[DeathRowKitty]

Unvote, vote DocPotter

It looks to me like he's just trying to push his agenda with no regards for the points actually being made. The teleport scummy players option has grown less appealing since he joined in on it.

I think we have a better option though (and the other universe will hate me for suggesting it (actually farside hinted at it)). Our universe seems to be moving faster than the other universe. We can come to a concensus for a lynch faster and thus teleport more frequently. Ya get ma drift?

It would put us in constant competition with the other town, but it would also probably give us the best chance of winning.

[animorpherv1]

So, DRK your opinion is to teleport the players that aren't participating? I like that idea.

[DeathRowKitty]

Not what I meant. I meant we could lynch faster than the other town and send players there faster than they could send players here >.>

Basically, we could send them scummy players faster than they could send us scummy players.

[DocPotter]

I think that continuing discussing strategy is pointless. Seems to me that the teleporters will decide for themselves on what to do

DRK, strangely Kair is pushing his agenda, I'm proposing ideas and argueing against what I think is a plan that will hurt us.

But as Gayle says, it's up to the teleporters.

[Ellibereth]

So, DRK your opinion is to teleport the players that aren't participating? I like that idea.

^^^ I endorse this. Teleport all Lurkers.
The trying to lynch faster so we teleport faster sounds interesting. Have to think about it.

[animorpherv1]

@ Elli:

TALK (

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eleport

A

ll

L

ur

k

ers)

[DeathRowKitty]

Also, I would like to point out before someone brings it up that lynching faster doesn't have to hurt us. We're posting frequently enough that we could arrive at a lynch more quickly without a drop-off in the quality of lynches.

[taunt]Besides, we're cooler than Universe 1. This is the perfect way to show it. [/taunt]

[Kairyuu]

Fuck it. I've not got close to enough support to attempt to force this through, so I'm gonna shut up about my strategy now. If at any point the people bashing it decide to actually read what I'm saying instead of simply repeating themselves (talking to you Doc) then let me know and we can try to work something out with universe one. Until then normal gameplay will be substituted for theory. By which I mean my vote will stay on Jack-scum.

@Universe 1(assuming someone over there wants to quote this so everyone can see it): Gayle's attempt to extend the rvs is scummy as hell. You should lynch her for it.

[animorpherv1]

mod: may we lynch U1 players and can the mafia kill U1 players?

[zoraster]

mod: may we lynch U1 players and can the mafia kill U1 players?

No. You may only vote, lynch, kill, and teleport people in your own universe.

[animorpherv1]

To the Other Universe

It seems you are thinking of lynching quickly in order to teleport scummy people over here.

Make no mistake: we are not idiots..

On night actions, there is no sensible agreement we can come to - at some point it will be unilaterally broken. But we can and do see your day conversations. Any move to systematically lynch quicker than us will inevitably lead to both universes lynching quicker, and therefore worse. You will not just screw us over, you will screw yourselves over. If you end up one night ahead of us, will you have gained as much as if you spent twice the time over your days?

[Ellibereth]

hahahaha fishy.

[Kairyuu]

See that's exactly why it's a bad idea. We either coordinate Nights or work completely independently. No other solution will help in the long run.

[Ellibereth]

Not feeling Jackscum.
Nico and Ani are town.