Socrates wrote:What were you doing day 2 when SC was leading what you felt was a bad lynch?
Regarding your last two points, what would you
expect
a town SC to do, that those points are scummy?
First of all, I said 'weak lynch.' not bad lynch, which I think is important to differentiate. I felt it was weak in that in that I didn't feel his reasons for leading the lynch were as rock solid as he did (because he was oh-so-sure!.) If I remember correctly, his main reason for a lynch was that Starbuck was defending DN. I didn't feel like she was defending DN, but saying that the arguments used against DN weren't completely logical, or that they had flaws. I had very little problem with SC thinking Starbucks actions were scummy, but he acted like his opinion was 100% right, no doubt about it.
First question (what was I doing for two days) SC hammered Wednesday night. I posted my imprints, and noted I didn't like SCs hammer when everyone else was talking about imprint issues. I went to sleep after making a comment to farside about voting to imprint yourself.
Thursday: Work until late, then dinner with girlfriend, then home to pack (Atlantic City.) Checked the board, didn't post. Rereading, it seemed that the Starbuck movement was starting to build, but I must not have thought anything so important was going on that I had to carefully read everything and post (I might have still been mad at SC, I admit to being grumpy at his hammer for a little bit)
Friday: Work late, went straight to a bus to Atlantic City. Checked my phone on the trip and saw the mounting stuff against Starbuck. Was slightly confused at how strong it seemed to be getting, decided to read everything when I got the chance. Didn't get to, Messiah hammered Friday night.
Regarding my last two points:
a) Regarding poor voting records re:SC. Fair, I might have worded this poorly. I was more bothered by the fact that he did this POORLY in my mind (I took offense with him criticizing my voting record (second to last on DN, not on SB) when in my mind, his was far worse (he hammered DN when people were talking about potential imprints and started and pushed the lynch on SB (townie.)) So while analyzing voting records can of course be of great value, it was more about his conclusion and his logic behind it, and after pointing out that his record was quite possibly the worst of anyone, he kept trying to make it seem like the fact that I wasn't on the SB lynch made me MORE suspicious that him, that not voting for Starbuck meant I was not scummy for not recognizing the greatness of his case (which was wrong!)
b) Regarding when he started favoring imprints: SC was in favor of imprinting and not lynching only AFTER Starbuck was lynched, a lynch he started and pushed for. Not on the first day, not on the second day, only after the person he pushed to lynch flipped townie.
Socrates wrote:Would you please explain what you mean by your town read decreased as time went on? What did he do that you don't like?
I think that I felt good about Messiah at first, but that might have just been because he agreed with what I had to say regarding the theory of this games mechanics early on. As the game went on, I just felt like that was a lot of what he did, that I felt good about him because he thought my ideas on game theory were good (yay! someone thinks my ideas are right!) and for not much else. In Messiahs case, its more like I was really happy at the start, and a 'lack of maintenance' started to erode it as I realized that I got a townie vibe for maybe the wrong reasons. It kind of hard to say really, kind of a gut thing I guess.
Socrates wrote:So you don't feel Plum could justify a town read on Elvis?
I wouldn't put it that way. Its kind of just surprising. I find it odd that Plum gets a town read on Elvis and nobody else more (or in other words, Elvis is MOST TOWN) Elvis (if I recall, this is 100% off memory, so I may be mistaken, Elvis, did you ever say something along these lines?) even noted herself that she wouldn't be surprised if she never got an imprint. I just find it funny that Plum would find Elvis so much more town than anyone else, not that she got a town vibe off her AT ALL.
Socrates wrote:What has buttonmen done other than the early discussions about gamebreaking that makes you think he is town?
I think he is fairly open about who is he suspicious of, is unapologetic about his thoughts and theories (Its funny, sometimes I think I'd be much less suspicious of SC if I thought his crazytime logic made an ounce of sense.) When he responds to other people asking questions I don't get the feeling that he has to try to make stuff up to answer. Truthfully, his gamebreak logic is one of the smaller reasons I get a town vibe off him. I felt good about him before that too.
Socrates wrote: Did you ever do this 'indepthness'?
Yes, in the next post, right
HERE. I recently linked to this post to answer to SC why I thought that if xRECK were to ever flip scum, I would be more suspicious of Pug.
Socrates wrote:Re: Buttonmen's game breaking stuff. Can someone tell me why this makes him likely town? I'll tell you this much, the first thing I would do as scum in this type of game would be to play a game of "Lets break the setup guys!" in order to score easy town points while being completely comfortable in the thought that any half competent Mod or their reviewers would have caught any gamebreaking strategy's. It allows one to avoid taking any alignment significant stances while still appearing to have to towns best interest at heart.
Is it scummy? Hell no.
Is it null? hell yes.
I think saying NULL is a little strong, but I agree that it shouldn't be what swings someone from 'he is mafia' to 'he is townie' side. For me the fact that I get good vibes from Button to begin with is augmented by the fact that even if a gamebreaking strategy is shut down for one way or another, thinking about things can still help think about BETTER ways to play. If I recall, SC had some things to say on the topic of gamebreaking around the same time, but of course he is still high up on my scumlist!
But I do agree to the basic premise of this.
Any other questions for me? I gather you asked these of me mainly because Pug and I are the next two highest imprint vote getters, and assuming that we do imprint one other person, I'd of course want it to be me (I'm on record as saying that NOT wanting an imprint is more scummy than the vice-versa)