Mini #893 - Dollhouse Mafia (Game Over!)

[farside22]

VMD connection time:

I want to get it out there that I'm also giving DN the benefit of the doubt for now due to meta reasons; I have read bits and pieces of many games on this website, including a couple that DN was in, and it seems that he always acts like this, and almost always gets lynched for it early on in the game. That said, I certainly don't want to give him an imprint any time soon. People with anti-town metas are far too much of a wildcard to risk something like that.

Using meta to not want to vote.

SC, post 184 wrote:
<--- is calling right now Starbuck scum with Deathnote. Write that down, keep it safe, check it on reveal.

...Really? When she's only made one post (not counting her "I'll post later" post)? I had a firmly neutral read on 183.

Now that DN is scum what happens if starbuck is scum with this note VMD?

SC, post 240 wrote:
She's defending him, but she doesn't want to be SEEN to be defending him.


Not what I saw at all. I took it at face value and read it as she had a meta-based tell on him. She uses the words "overaggressive" and "overreacted" in relation to your and elvis' reactions to DN. That doesn't seem like she's defending him to me. I read 183 as, "Yeah, this guy isn't the towniest guy ever, but the way these guys reacted to him seemed scummy and would seem scummy to me regardless of DN's alignment. BTW, DN always acts like this, lol."

More defense of starbuck.

More general thoughts on the Starbuck vs SC/Elvis thing: The overall fight looks to me like a town vs town squabble more than it does a scum vs town or scum vs scum distancing squabble. If there were scum involved I'm fairly certain I'd be smelling a rat from someone involved right now, and instead all I smell is a lot of righteous indignation all around. Try not to tunnel too much, guys, it could be bad news for all of us. >_<

Any reason why you thought this?

@SC: I wouldn't be particularly opposed to your lynch order plan. Both you and DN have some substantial connections between yourselves and other players and knowing the way either or both of you flip would probably be great for untangling this game's web a little. DN is starting to get on even my nerves -- I'm just flat-out running out of patience for him and if he's going to be like this all game it might be better to just get rid of him and if he is scum, then hey, icing on the cake.

The maybe I will vote for him with no reason approach.

I wouldn't necessarily auto-call you town if DN flips scum, though. If I were scumbuddies with DN, he'd be a laughably easy bus and considering the count on DN now I'm fairly sure scum knows that. (Speaking of the count, he's at L-1 and that's why I'm not voting him now.)

EK and SC started this whole questioning so you still think both of them or bussing now or just SC?

Originally I wanted to excuse him because of his meta and a hope that, if scum, he would unintentionally out his scumbuddies. When I finally got back around to this game I realized, you know what, if he really wanted to, he could change his meta. As he's acting now, he's little more than dead weight to us.

And instead of actual scum hunting reason for voting lets throw in meta again.

There is connections with DN and starbucks just crawling with VMD there.

[Vala Mal Doran]

If starbuck is scum, then I guess nothing will sway you (not that anything's swaying you now, gg tunnelling). But I still think Starbuck is town and I still think SC was obviously bussing DN. I didn't get that vibe from elvis nearly as much.

Any reason why you thought this?

I've already repeated myself because of you several times over, and frankly, it's a complete waste of my time. Go

read

my explanation, I know you know it's there. Ctrl + F my screenname til you find what you're looking for if you have to, but I'm sick of you asking me to explain things I've already explained several times.

And instead of actual scum hunting reason for voting lets throw in meta again.

Because your confirmation bias on me is

obviously

"actual scum hunting", amirite? You're obviously only looking at some of my posts and blinding yourself to others, because you're clearly not bothering to read any of my explanations.

[SerialClergyman]

Reading the 2 buttonman was looking for something that more favorable to town where you found the reason it wouldn't work by sending a PM to the mod. TheButton still had the idea first reading the read. Anyone reading that just will go into the well he asked the mod what would happen in this case which isnt' really game breaking in my view.

farside, this is slightly frustrating because I DID send the PM before that post but you guys have no way of knowing that. So I'll drop the first attempt (although it was more sophisticated than buttonman's). But what about the second attempt - Iam created a 'if noone dies in three days it's a draw' rule and I suggest being able to never imprint anyone and if things look like we're in lylo and going to lose we just vote to no kill 3 times and it's a draw, giving us either a win or a draw with no chance of loss. That's breaking it isn't it?

Even if there weren't 3 posts defending DeathNote, you don't need them. That first content post was enough to make me think Starbuck was scum even before I knew DN was scum. I could still be wrong and I accept that, but sometimes it just seems to be there.

@SC: Did it ever occur to you in your arrogance that maybe people aren't disagreeing with you because they're scum, and instead they're disagreeing with you because you keep trying to control town's actions?

Vala, firstly I'm sorry because I've been referring to you as Vala Del Moran or something not your actual name, I'll try to make sure I do it properly.

As for your criticism, I can only say I'm playing the game to the best of my ability. If that means aggressively pushing a lynch or hammering someone without necessarily consensus, it was only because I truly believe those actions to be the right choice for my team. Sorry to be irritating, I'm not always like this but when you get a strong read you can't ignore it.

Obviously everyone who disagrees with me isn't scum. The point I was making before is that people are influenced by those around them. If four people find someone scummy, you'll guarantee that others will find him scummy, even if there's nothing to the case. The more consensus you have when there are 4/12 scum in the game, the worse the idea - speaking in very general terms.

@all I find the term mouthpiece a little offensive to be honest. I think everybody is contributing their unique voice, elvis' differs from mine in certain ways and farside's certainly does, so lets cut out the insinuation that anyone isn't thinking for themselves.

Also imprinting later in the game is bad.

3 scum vs 8 town right now.

This is a good point, but I don't agree because I think we're more likely to put them in the right places once we have a few flips. On D1, VMD was one of the most likely to recieve an imprint. If Starbuck and DN flip scum, she almost certainly should not. We just have much more concrete information after the game has gone on for a while.

I could make a case on the top two imprinters but I think it'd be a little facetious. It's more the process by which they are imprinted that I have my doubts. My analysis for D1 imprinting explains what I mean - none of the 4 people I thought were probably town had imprinted these people yet they had 5 votes each. This point was somewhat misunderstood - I'm not having a go at any one imprinted or imprintee, just looking at patterns. Without 4 town votes, it seems to me it should be very difficult to get a town imprinted. It just looked scum-fuelled to me for sure. Top that off with the fact I don't see the point as yet and consider it an unnecessary risk and here we are.

[Vala Mal Doran]

If four people find someone scummy, you'll guarantee that others will find him scummy, even if there's nothing to the case. The more consensus you have when there are 4/12 scum in the game, the worse the idea - speaking in very general terms.

Your logic is still as amazingly counterintuitive as ever.

[SerialClergyman]

Counterintuitive - almost certainly.
Incorrect - almost certainly not, at least in my experience.

[Starbuck]

Page 10 to Page 15

Welcome Farside! I don't think I've had the pleasure of playing with you. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, Welcome Reckoner! So nice to have a familiar face.



I still do not see where I was "obsessively defending" DeathNote. The reasons behind SC's vote and Elvis's vote of him were very shoddy and definitely give me the feeling of bussing now that I see his flip. I saw something in both of their full blown attacks on him. It just seems too coordinated.

It almost feels that her attacks of me are coming off as a more personal nature than actually just trying to have fun in a mafia game. I know Elvis has said that she always views me as scum, but I feel as though she's just using that as an excuse.

It probably doesn't matter what I say because Elvis and SC are just going to keep on keeping on about getting me lynched because if DeathNote is scum then Starbuck is 100% scum. I don't see how Deathnotescum = Starbuckscum. I'm getting the feeling of being a scapegoat.

SC's constant misrepresentation and strawmanning of myself is just too much. It seems like I either just really offended him or he's scum trying to shove off a lynch on someone other than himself. He has seemed to be very overaggressive and has quite a bit of overreaction whenever the subject is on me.

The amount of buddying between SC and Elvis is just over the top now. I'm getting called out for buddying when that was not what my posts were about at all.

@SC

I'm not surprised you haven't addressed the content, but it's all there Starbuck. Obsession and underhanded are perfectly fair words for that post. Every section talked about DN. It had nothing to do with having to mention his name - you literally defended him in every section. Look at how much of your post mentions it, it's all there in my post. You CONSTANTLY defend him. If you thought he was town, I'd say it was at least consistent, but you originally said he wasn't completely scummy and now say you think he's null - that's not consistent with your defence. Nor is it consistent with thinking elvis and I are scum together.

I was pointing out the faults of your arguments and elvis's arguments. It just so happened that the situation was about DeathNote. I don't see how that is me defending him when I am pointing out what I see is wrong with what you and elvis are saying.

Because I am both up front about it and actively think elvis is town. Starbuck apparantly think's DN is null read yet defends him constantly. There's a disconnect between her view of him and her defence of him. And she never sets out ot defend him, it just seems to get worked into every facet of her post.

She also continues to say he's null despite her two biggest scumreads being scummy for attacking him. This is not a logically consistent world view.

The Starbuck tell is that she is defending DN in an underhanded fashion. I guess I'm not being clear in why it's scummy. I'll try to be as clear as possible. Starbuck SHOULD think DN is town. She defends him constantly and her two biggest scummy suspects attacked him. But yet she doesn't, if anything she regards him on the scummy side of neutral. (She says he's not completely scummy)
So then go back and have a look at her posts. She's defending him, but she doesn't want to be SEEN to be defending him. And she's doing it A LOT. This to me is the definition of an informed minority tell.

Having played with DeathNote quite a bit, he always is hard to read for me. And again, I was not defending him. This continual misrepresentation of myself is growing old very, very fast.

Because in this theory of the game, Starbuck is defending a buddy. I totally admit my case is absolutely dependent on Starbuck being scum. But mafia is about finding the informed minority, and I'm telling you that is part of it.

So how is it that it's considered that I was "defending my buddy" when it seems as though you and elvis signed a pact before the game even started?

Is defending someone she is not prepared to say is town. Does not acknowledge the defence at all.

Because I wasn't defending him. I was pointing out your faults.

I have a suggestion. Lynch DN, imprint me. If I'm wrong, and he's town, I'll be the next lynch, and I'll tell you all what my power was and where I used it and what I found. If I'm right, we lynch Starbuck and imprint me and elvis.

But aside from all that, the biggest criticisms of elvis I can see is her 'overreaction' to DN, which of course she can be clared of if he's scum, and her buddying/clearing of me, which again is supported by a DN scumflip.

I'm not comfortable with you trying to set things up. You and Elvis have been your fair share of overbearing thus far in this game. Just because DN flipped scum is not another way that you guys can confirm yourselves as town, and the same goes that it doesn't confirm me as scum.

For anyone thinking I'm scummy for defending elvis, defending my town reads is a BIG part of my game.

The issue that I'm having (and I think others are having as well) as it's not coming off as defending your town read. It's coming off of as in your first post, you were defending elvis. You came straight into the game defending her, and her, you.

@Elvis

Starbuck, please answer this post. It was directed at you.

So I should ignore that completely scummy thing he did because he took it back?

He still is voting to imprint everyone except me. How is that pro-town? He may say that he has abandoned his plan, but he really hasn't since he's still voting like he's trying to make it happen.

You are criticising me for not rescinding my imprint on SC and myself. Why would I do that? I'm almost sure he's town. I stand by my theory.

YET, you are not giving Deathnote any problem for failing to unimprint everyone, even after he agreed his plan is bad. At this point, he has admitted his plan is anti-town and yet, he is still voting everyone. And yet, you don't care?

I didn't realize this was directed at me. Thank you for bringing it back up.

It probably doesn't matter what I say, even if I had a chance to answer this prior to Deathnote's flip, because you have your mind set that I'm scum.

I do care, but it still takes more than just his vote to imprint someone. It takes 7 (now 6?) people to imprint someone. His one measly vote on each person really didn't matter.

Thoughts on starbuck: every time I play with her I think she's scum (I think I've played with her in more games than twilight, but I dunno which ones), so I'm trying not to be too judgemental about her at the moment. I'm just pointing out where she possibly missed something from reading too fast, or misinterpreted/misunderstood me. As time goes by, I hope to get a better read on her, and see if me and her can reach some common ground. I feel like she is not listening to me at the moment. I do agree though that she is defending deathnote and lewarcher, which is odd.

I just feel that you are being biased since you just admitted here that you always think I'm scum. I could have missed something because I was taking that day to catch up with game. Now that I'm back at my house in Sicily, I will be re-reading things over again, but your overreactions to just about everything I say has me very wary of you. The same with SC.

You said you feel as though I'm not listening to you, when I have. It actually feels the exact same coming from your side. You have not given me any time of day to consider anything I brought up.

The whole me defending DeathNote thing has been blown out of proportion by both you and SC. I will state again that I was building cases on yourself and SC.

But I'm curious to see as to where I was defending Lewarcher?

If she's scum, you're her buddy.

The above is directed at xRx. So you have the whole scum team nailed now, huh? DeathNote, myself and xRx. So who's your fourth since you seem to throw out accusations left and right?

Also, equating Starbuck defense of DN to me and SC is not a fair comparison. We have a specific reason to think the other is town. Starbuck has no reason to think DN is town. In fact I think she put him at neutral but is defending him. That doesn't make sense.

Blatant misrepresentation. I NEVER said that I felt that DN was town. I said I was null on him. You and SC seem to love to twist people's words to your own benefit.

And what's your specific reason? The fact that you didn't think scum had the NK? Are you still going on about that?

Reckoner seems to be defending Starbuck for no real reason.

So I guess meta means nothing to you then? You said yourself that you always see me as scum. I don't know if this is your bias because I rubbed you the wrong way in Twilight or if you are just using that as an excuse. We have only ever played that game together, so how you could even know my play based on that one game is reaching A LOT.

I do agree with you that it seems odd that xRx had nothing to comment on regarding what I said.

Meanwhile we have Starbuck defending DN and lewarcher (both for essentially no reason), reckoner replaces lew archer and defends starbuck (for meta reasons while refusing to even comment on anything she's said). Interesting how the allegiance between starbuck and lewarcher carried over to reckoner. Axis of evil right there.

Again, wasn't defending Deathnote.

Also again, where exactly was I defending Lewarcher?

I guess no one else but you and SC can have meta reads on each other. Hmm, a bit hypocritical there, don't cha think?

@TheButtonmen

Look at it this way - why would town defend someone she thinks is at BEST null? Why would she do it so often?

See your throwing around words like "Obsessive" and "Often" allot yet Starbuck defended Deathnote as far as I can tell in all of 2 posts, you on the other hand have defended Elvis in 6-7 times. So if your read on Starbuck is due to her defending Deathnote "Obsessively" then I'd love to know why your so confident in your Elvis read that you defending her three times more often then a "Obsessive" amount

This. OMG This.

I find with meta's like Death Notes I find it allot harder to find connections / scumtells due to second guessing and not knowing how much to read into their reactions to pressure.

Welcome to how I feel whenever I play with DeathNote.

@VMD

I want to get it out there that I'm also giving DN the benefit of the doubt for now due to meta reasons; I have read bits and pieces of many games on this website, including a couple that DN was in, and it seems that he always acts like this, and almost always gets lynched for it early on in the game. That said, I certainly don't want to give him an imprint any time soon. People with anti-town metas are far too much of a wildcard to risk something like that.

Thank you for being one of the few people to know where I am coming from when it comes to DeathNote.

Yes, but she reciprocated the buddying. She imprinted him back, and unless she's just terribly, terribly inexperienced with mafia, her reasoning for that imprint is just plain BS.

And you are right. I was curious to see if I just voted to imprint him because he did so for me what the reactions would be.

@Starbuck: Why are you voting to imprint me?

I'm voting to imprint you because I feel that you are pro-town along with TheButtonmen.

On DeathNote

His posts towards the end of page 12, especially when he explicitly stated that he was using appeal to emotion, just screams scum right there. Had I not been with my family and had I been caught up with the game, my vote would have moved right then.

On xRx

Messiah's 236 is a strong post: SC says Starbuck is "obsessed with" and "defending" DN, but someone could just as easily say that he is doing the same with elvis (and vice versa). If it's a scumtell for Starbuck, then it's a scumtell for either elvis or SC. Just because you openly defend someone you read as town (which, way to give NO reasoning behind your unbelievably strong town-read on elvis, SC) doesn't mean that it's more acceptable just because someone thinks the attacks on another null-read are bullshit.

QFT.

@Plum: how many imprints would you give between 1-5, and who are your imprint candidates at the moment?

Actually, let's make that question @EVERYONE.

At this exact moment at your Post 346...

1. Farside
2. VMD
3. TheButtonmen
4. Plum
5. xRx

I also would love to be imprinted. I think that anyone saying that they don't want to be imprinted is a liar.

[Starbuck]

Page 16 to Page 20

I swear it drives me freeking bonkers that every post I read is that unless people are siding with you and elvis they are scum or just not listening. Like wow I'm so not allowed to my opinion everyone. I just be mindless and just listen to EK and SC.

Holy crap, QFT.

On SC

Has this list changed at all?

Elvis - not one person feeling out whether any of my lynch DN then me type plans is a good idea and all of them being rejected out of hand suggests to me that DN is scum for the same reason you just came to your elvis and sc are town conclusion.

I can't speak for everyone, but the reason that I reject your plan has nothing to do with not wanting to lynch DN, it's because of the ridiculous "If I'm town than all of my reads are 100% correct and you should base all of your decisions on those instead of your own reads" thing.

This.

b) That one should not defend someone one thinks is town

No one has said that, the problem is when you defend someone as town with little solid reasoning

Also this.

I concede all points. Not everyone has jumped on the wagon - rather mostly everyone (except DN and Starbuck, I believe) have expressed a willingness to see him lynched.

Way to use my V/LA against me, especially when I posted to check in.

Farside there are eight unique people voting to imprint the three top imprint candidates. I am town and not one of them. That makes at least one scum amongst the eight.

Declaring your towniness with no way to prove it really isn't all that pro-town.

unvote, vote deathnote

executive decision. Let's continue this after a flip.

Executive decision?

Way to cut off the discussion that everyone seemed pretty heavily involved in.

Boom, headshot.

Now, Starbuck should be next. Her post where she constantly defends DeathNote is SIGNIFICANTLY more scummy now.

I understand there is a big negative reaction to quickhammering, but guess what - scum getting imprint powers is a BAD THING and it was going to happen if I'd let that continue.

For all you townies out there - you might not like me or my methods but dammit, listen up. My analysis of the imprinting is IMPORTANT.

If you feel you have to lynch me to be sure I'm telling the truth, then go ahead and do it, just DO NOT IMPRINT ANYONE. Just lynch me, look at the town flip, then look at who you should lynch D2 (cough starbuck cough).

More good options for lynches are anyone who said SC and elvis are scum but DN is MORE scum, because that attitude doesn't make sense and is a clear bus attempt.

Still misrepresenting what I said!

Opportunistic much? Pushing for a quicklynch of myself and all?


Post 485 is reading to me like someone who is flailing.
Post 493 is more OMGUS on people who disagree with him
Post 498 - still setting up lynches I see

On Elvis

And he knows me as a player, so he should have a good read of me. So you should just take what he says more seriously and stop with the paranoia.

But both you and SC have both refuted anyone else's meta reads. So why now should we accept yours?

This is not the first time that people refuse to answer questions posed by other players, insisting that the asker answer the question first or explain why he is asking.

WTF.

THIS IS LAME.

WHY CAN'T PEOPLE ANSWER A QUESTION?

Overreaction much?

I understand that TheButtonmen didn't answer it and I feel that he should, but if SC can't answer that question himself, then I don't think others should either.

At this point I wish I had kept my realization to myself because I could have just voted to imprint him and

known secretly that he is town

without alienating everyone.

Is this you admitting that you know his alignment? Because it seems like a significant scumtell to me.

The thing that really sucks most now is that not only do people not want to imprint either of us, is that people aren't really listening to us. Losing the influence of two town players in a game where 1/3 is scum, is like, really bad. Hopefully as the game progresses though we can look back at the reactions to my theory about me and SC and find the scum easier.

Why are you still talking like you are confirmed when you AREN'T?

On TheButtonmen

I'm opposed to a DN lynch at the moment. Partially because right now it would mean 0 imprints getting handed out today/tonight.

So anyone hammering DN before we can figure out what the plan is in regard to imprints I will assume your scum.

Until this post, I have felt pro-town about TheButtonmen, but this just seems like he was trying to stall the lynch.

FOS: TheButtonmen

[TheButtonmen]

On TheButtonmen

I'm opposed to a DN lynch at the moment. Partially because right now it would mean 0 imprints getting handed out today/tonight.

So anyone hammering DN before we can figure out what the plan is in regard to imprints I will assume your scum.

Until this post, I have felt pro-town about TheButtonmen, but this just seems like he was trying to stall the lynch.

FOS: TheButtonmen

Err thats exactly what I was trying to do? Notice I said it quite bluntly....

[TheButtonmen]

unvote, vote deathnote

executive decision. Let's continue this after a flip.

Executive decision?

Way to cut off the discussion that everyone seemed pretty heavily involved in.

Really odd that you would call me on it, when you yourself pointed out the reason in the same post

[Starbuck]

Page 21 to Page 24

On SC

5 imprints on someone not voting deathnote. Bad times.

Starbuck was imprinting vdm and none of the other top three. More and more likely they are scum together.

I know there are at least two and probably more townies on that imprint wagon. What's so wrong with lynching me or starbuck first? Why do you need to rely on hoping button is town and he gets a useful print when there is more than enough info for more lynches, if not an outright win?

So now that you can't go on and on about DeathNote, you are moving to another tactic. I'm not the only person who has a pro-town read on VMD. So why is it all about me and no one else on her imprint wagon?

Things that make me uneasy: VDM asking what happens if Starbuck is town.

Why does this make you uneasy? Why can't I be town in your eyes? Because I was OBSESSING over DeathNote and being UNDERHANDED with my DEFENSE of DeathNote? *Note the sarcasm please*

On Plum

Starbuck was my next scummiest suspect for similar counts to DN's but not SC's case (though DN flipping scum makes her look no better, to say the least).

So do you have an actual case or is this it?


Also, your Post 517 reads as though you suspect SC more than myself and since you really posted no case on me, it seems as though you are trying to cover his tracks.

FOS: Plum

until she can post a legitimate case

On Elvis

WTF...........................

CAN PEOPLE STOP VOTING SC ALREADY?

If HE F-ING GETS LYNCHED BEFORE I GET A CHANCE TO READ THROUGH THE LAST FEW PAGES I WILL BE RAGE

But you have no problem pushing along a quicklynch on myself before I can catch up.


Post 545 - I don't think I've ever seen someone so eager to lynch me. Are you sure this isn't a personal vendetta?

If starbuck flips town, then we look at other ties to DN, including SC. We weigh that new evidence with other evidence of scummy behavior and arrive at a new conclusion.

But I couldn't possibly be town, no.

On Farside

Post 565 - Way to answer a question meant for someone else. I feel you are a bit misguided here. I have been misrepresented more in this game than any of the games I've played on MS. The fact that thus far you have had no interaction with me makes things quite suspicious.

I do feel still though that you are pro-town, even though this seems very opportunistic.

Vote: SerialClergyman

Imprint: Starbuck, Pug89, VMD, xRx, and Farside

I didn't just want to jump in and imprint myself on the one day that I was able to post when I was in the States. I figure that I probably have no chance of it now, so I might as well vote myself.

The other 4 are people I find to be pro-town. Despite Farside's vote on me, I do feel that she is pro-town.

I am still rather null on Messiah and Limerick.

I'm not comfortable voting to imprint TheButtonmen now after the post I quoted in my last post. I feel that he was trying to stall the DeathNote lynch.

I do not like how Plum casually posted a sentence about me with nothing to support a case with her vote.

We all know how I feel about SC and Elvis.

[Starbuck]

unvote, vote deathnote

executive decision. Let's continue this after a flip.

Executive decision?

Way to cut off the discussion that everyone seemed pretty heavily involved in.

Really odd that you would call me on it, when you yourself pointed out the reason in the same post

You are absolutely right. I am jet lagged like crazy. I have been awake for almost a full day now. I apologize.

I figured SC would pull a last second flip onto DeathNote's wagon. He wasn't getting me lynched so why not bus DeathNote and make me look like scum.

How convenient for him that DeathNote was waiting to be hammered? Wouldn't it make him look more pro-town or CONFIRM (note the sarcasm) him as town because he hammered scum?

[Starbuck]

I'm a little frustrated that things have gotten blown this far out of proportion. It seems as though the scum have used my absence to their advantage.

[SerialClergyman]

*dusts off Messiah's place on the wagon*

Sir, your seat is ready and waiting.

[TheButtonmen]

*dusts off Messiah's place on the wagon*

Sir, your seat is ready and waiting.

Why Messiah?

[SerialClergyman]

He said he was ready to hammer and was waiting for Starbuck to post a catchup post.

Catchup post is done, plenty to analyse if there's a town flip, now it's time to hammer and hopefully grab another scumbag.

If you want to sneak in and get it done before he comes I'm happy with that outcome too.

[TheButtonmen]

So obviously defending DN and his plan is the scummiest move there. We have:

Starbuck

She never defended his plan, you and SC have a really bad habit of adding details, not a particularly attractive habit really.

[TheButtonmen]

Also I feel the need to point out in big bold letters that

Starbuck is at L-1

.

I don't really care what you do with said information but I want to make it obvious so no one hammers and then acts confused.

[TheButtonmen]

Using meta to not want to vote.

VWD is far from along in that, I would point out D1 EK and SC as prime examples.

SC, post 184 wrote:
<--- is calling right now Starbuck scum with Deathnote. Write that down, keep it safe, check it on reveal.

...Really? When she's only made one post (not counting her "I'll post later" post)? I had a firmly neutral read on 183.

Now that DN is scum what happens if starbuck is scum with this note VMD?

What are you saying here? That because DN was scum we follow SC?

[TheButtonmen]

In closing to my ever so truncated batch of posts:

If the hammer falls, no one is getting imprinted again. I'm well aware some of you think thats a feature, I personally would regard it as a bug. I don't want our first experiance with imprints to be when we are close to the wire numbers wise.

[Vala Mal Doran]

I was curious to see if I just voted to imprint him because he did so for me what the reactions would be.

I'm voting to imprint you because I feel that you are pro-town along with TheButtonmen.

Were these really your only reasons?

Also, you put Farside at 1 on your town list and me at two, but Farside has been vigorously attacking me and thinks I'm scum. Does this not form a sort of contradiction if you think both of us are town? What do you think of her attacks on me?

He said he was ready to hammer and was waiting for Starbuck to post a catchup post.

Catchup post is done, plenty to analyse if there's a town flip, now it's time to hammer and hopefully grab another scumbag.

If you want to sneak in and get it done before he comes I'm happy with that outcome too.

SC is so obviously scum, wtf. "Hey guys, hammer before anyone can have a reaction post!" Obviously the quicker the hammer falls the less time we have for discussion and considering SC is lynch candidate #2, he is clearly afraid and flailing to make sure Starbuck bites the dust first. How is anyone

not

seeing this?

[iamausername]

-=Vote Count #17=-

Arizona (5) - Alaska, Georgia, Virginia, Kansas, Iowa
Alaska (4) - Hawaii, Colorado, Ohio, Arizona

Not Voting (2) - Florida, Montana

6 to lynch.

-=Imprint Count #17=-

Hawaii (5) - Kansas, Ohio, Montana, Hawaii, Florida
Montana (4) - Kansas, Ohio, Montana, Arizona
Florida (2) - Ohio, Florida
Colorado (2) - Ohio, Iowa
Georgia (2) - Montana, Georgia
Ohio (2) - Ohio, Arizona
Iowa (2) - Iowa, Arizona
Virginia (1) - Georgia
Arizona (1) - Arizona
Kansas (1) - Arizona
Alaska (0)

6 to imprint.

ALASKA = SerialClergyman
ARIZONA = Starbuck
COLORADO = Messiah
FLORIDA = Limerickx
GEORGIA = Plum
HAWAII = TheButtonmen
IOWA = xRECKONERx
KANSAS = farside22
MONTANA = Pug89
OHIO = Vala Mal Doran
VIRGINIA = elvis_knits

[Starbuck]

Claim time since I am at L-1. I am town.

[Starbuck]

I was curious to see if I just voted to imprint him because he did so for me what the reactions would be.

I'm voting to imprint you because I feel that you are pro-town along with TheButtonmen.

Were these really your only reasons?

Also, you put Farside at 1 on your town list and me at two, but Farside has been vigorously attacking me and thinks I'm scum. Does this not form a sort of contradiction if you think both of us are town? What do you think of her attacks on me?

Yes, that was my only reason for voting you and TheButtonmen at the time. I'm not the only person who has voted to imprint those that she/he has felt is pro-town.

I didn't do my town list in order from most pro-town to least. It was like 5 am here and I still hadn't slept. I just wrote out who I feel is pro-town.

She's attacking me too. Farside also has her vote on me and not you. So personally, I really think she's reaching because she has had absolutely NO interaction with me. She is going off my one day of posts and almost everything that SC and Elvis say. Although, she says that she thinks Elvis is scum. I don't really have any experience with Farside in a game setting, although I do feel that she is pro-town, even though she is attacking me.

How would it form a contradiction? Townies go at each others throats more often than scum do. I think her post about my connection to you is another thing that's reaching. But she has built case where other people have not. For me, that gives her townie points.

[elvis_knits]

I know Elvis has said that she always views me as scum, but I feel as though she's just using that as an excuse.

I actually was trying to suspend judgement on you because of this. I never said "I always think you're scum, so that's why I think you're scum now!" I said I always think you're scum, so I don't want to jump to the same conclusion just because I find you scummy. For some reason we always seem to see things differently, and not like I say black and you say white. It's like I say black and you say dishwasher.

Regardless, I am not suspecting you because of our meta history here. I think you're scum for defending deathnote, known scum.

[elvis_knits]

Starbuck imprinting farside is totally weird.

post 580 she says nothing about farside except welcome and states her at the end of the post as the person she most wants to imprint. Reason?

Her other posts have a little QFT over farside's SC-hatred. Starbuck says she doesn't like farside's 565.

Then she imprints farside.

It doesn't seem like enough of a reason to imprint someone, especially when she doesn't only have positive things to say about farside.