Welcome Farside! I don't think I've had the pleasure of playing with you. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Also, Welcome Reckoner! So nice to have a familiar face.
I still do not see where I was "obsessively defending" DeathNote. The reasons behind SC's vote and Elvis's vote of him were very shoddy and definitely give me the feeling of bussing now that I see his flip. I saw something in both of their full blown attacks on him. It just seems too coordinated.
It almost feels that her attacks of me are coming off as a more personal nature than actually just trying to have fun in a mafia game. I know Elvis has said that she always views me as scum, but I feel as though she's just using that as an excuse.
It probably doesn't matter what I say because Elvis and SC are just going to keep on keeping on about getting me lynched because if DeathNote is scum then Starbuck is 100% scum. I don't see how Deathnotescum = Starbuckscum. I'm getting the feeling of being a scapegoat.
SC's constant misrepresentation and strawmanning of myself is just too much. It seems like I either just really offended him or he's scum trying to shove off a lynch on someone other than himself. He has seemed to be very overaggressive and has quite a bit of overreaction whenever the subject is on me.
The amount of buddying between SC and Elvis is just over the top now. I'm getting called out for buddying when that was not what my posts were about at all.
@SC
SC wrote:I'm not surprised you haven't addressed the content, but it's all there Starbuck. Obsession and underhanded are perfectly fair words for that post. Every section talked about DN. It had nothing to do with having to mention his name - you literally defended him in every section. Look at how much of your post mentions it, it's all there in my post. You CONSTANTLY defend him. If you thought he was town, I'd say it was at least consistent, but you originally said he wasn't completely scummy and now say you think he's null - that's not consistent with your defence. Nor is it consistent with thinking elvis and I are scum together.
I was pointing out the faults of your arguments and elvis's arguments. It just so happened that the situation was about DeathNote. I don't see how that is me defending him when I am pointing out what I see is wrong with what you and elvis are saying.
SC wrote:Because I am both up front about it and actively think elvis is town. Starbuck apparantly think's DN is null read yet defends him constantly. There's a disconnect between her view of him and her defence of him. And she never sets out ot defend him, it just seems to get worked into every facet of her post.
She also continues to say he's null despite her two biggest scumreads being scummy for attacking him. This is not a logically consistent world view.
SC wrote:The Starbuck tell is that she is defending DN in an underhanded fashion. I guess I'm not being clear in why it's scummy. I'll try to be as clear as possible. Starbuck SHOULD think DN is town. She defends him constantly and her two biggest scummy suspects attacked him. But yet she doesn't, if anything she regards him on the scummy side of neutral. (She says he's not completely scummy)
So then go back and have a look at her posts. She's defending him, but she doesn't want to be SEEN to be defending him. And she's doing it A LOT. This to me is the definition of an informed minority tell.
Having played with DeathNote quite a bit, he always is hard to read for me. And again, I was not defending him. This continual misrepresentation of myself is growing old very, very fast.
SC wrote:Because in this theory of the game, Starbuck is defending a buddy. I totally admit my case is absolutely dependent on Starbuck being scum. But mafia is about finding the informed minority, and I'm telling you that is part of it.
So how is it that it's considered that I was "defending my buddy" when it seems as though you and elvis signed a pact before the game even started?
Sc wrote:Is defending someone she is not prepared to say is town. Does not acknowledge the defence at all.
Because I wasn't defending him. I was pointing out your faults.
Sc wrote:I have a suggestion. Lynch DN, imprint me. If I'm wrong, and he's town, I'll be the next lynch, and I'll tell you all what my power was and where I used it and what I found. If I'm right, we lynch Starbuck and imprint me and elvis.
SC wrote:
But aside from all that, the biggest criticisms of elvis I can see is her 'overreaction' to DN, which of course she can be clared of if he's scum, and her buddying/clearing of me, which again is supported by a DN scumflip.
I'm not comfortable with you trying to set things up. You and Elvis have been your fair share of overbearing thus far in this game. Just because DN flipped scum is not another way that you guys can confirm yourselves as town, and the same goes that it doesn't confirm me as scum.
SC wrote:For anyone thinking I'm scummy for defending elvis, defending my town reads is a BIG part of my game.
The issue that I'm having (and I think others are having as well) as it's not coming off as defending your town read. It's coming off of as in your first post, you were defending elvis. You came straight into the game defending her, and her, you.
@Elvis
elvis_knits wrote:Starbuck, please answer this post. It was directed at you.
elvis_knits wrote:So I should ignore that completely scummy thing he did because he took it back?
He still is voting to imprint everyone except me. How is that pro-town? He may say that he has abandoned his plan, but he really hasn't since he's still voting like he's trying to make it happen.
You are criticising me for not rescinding my imprint on SC and myself. Why would I do that? I'm almost sure he's town. I stand by my theory.
YET, you are not giving Deathnote any problem for failing to unimprint everyone, even after he agreed his plan is bad. At this point, he has admitted his plan is anti-town and yet, he is still voting everyone. And yet, you don't care?
I didn't realize this was directed at me. Thank you for bringing it back up.
It probably doesn't matter what I say, even if I had a chance to answer this prior to Deathnote's flip, because you have your mind set that I'm scum.
I do care, but it still takes more than just his vote to imprint someone. It takes 7 (now 6?) people to imprint someone. His one measly vote on each person really didn't matter.
elvis_knits wrote:Thoughts on starbuck: every time I play with her I think she's scum (I think I've played with her in more games than twilight, but I dunno which ones), so I'm trying not to be too judgemental about her at the moment. I'm just pointing out where she possibly missed something from reading too fast, or misinterpreted/misunderstood me. As time goes by, I hope to get a better read on her, and see if me and her can reach some common ground. I feel like she is not listening to me at the moment. I do agree though that she is defending deathnote and lewarcher, which is odd.
I just feel that you are being biased since you just admitted here that you always think I'm scum. I could have missed something because I was taking that day to catch up with game. Now that I'm back at my house in Sicily, I will be re-reading things over again, but your overreactions to just about everything I say has me very wary of you. The same with SC.
You said you feel as though I'm not listening to you, when I have. It actually feels the exact same coming from your side. You have not given me any time of day to consider anything I brought up.
The whole me defending DeathNote thing has been blown out of proportion by both you and SC. I will state again that I was building cases on yourself and SC.
But I'm curious to see as to where I was defending Lewarcher?
elvis_knits wrote:If she's scum, you're her buddy.
The above is directed at xRx. So you have the whole scum team nailed now, huh? DeathNote, myself and xRx. So who's your fourth since you seem to throw out accusations left and right?
elvis_knits wrote:Also, equating Starbuck defense of DN to me and SC is not a fair comparison. We have a specific reason to think the other is town. Starbuck has no reason to think DN is town. In fact I think she put him at neutral but is defending him. That doesn't make sense.
Blatant misrepresentation. I NEVER said that I felt that DN was town. I said I was null on him. You and SC seem to love to twist people's words to your own benefit.
And what's your specific reason? The fact that you didn't think scum had the NK? Are you still going on about that?
elvis_knits wrote:Reckoner seems to be defending Starbuck for no real reason.
So I guess meta means nothing to you then? You said yourself that you always see me as scum. I don't know if this is your bias because I rubbed you the wrong way in Twilight or if you are just using that as an excuse. We have only ever played that game together, so how you could even know my play based on that one game is reaching A LOT.
I do agree with you that it seems odd that xRx had nothing to comment on regarding what I said.
elvis_knits wrote:Meanwhile we have Starbuck defending DN and lewarcher (both for essentially no reason), reckoner replaces lew archer and defends starbuck (for meta reasons while refusing to even comment on anything she's said). Interesting how the allegiance between starbuck and lewarcher carried over to reckoner. Axis of evil right there.
Again, wasn't defending Deathnote.
Also again, where exactly was I defending Lewarcher?
I guess no one else but you and SC can have meta reads on each other. Hmm, a bit hypocritical there, don't cha think?
@TheButtonmen
TheButtonmen wrote:SerialClergyman wrote:Look at it this way - why would town defend someone she thinks is at BEST null? Why would she do it so often?
See your throwing around words like "Obsessive" and "Often" allot yet Starbuck defended Deathnote as far as I can tell in all of 2 posts, you on the other hand have defended Elvis in 6-7 times. So if your read on Starbuck is due to her defending Deathnote "Obsessively" then I'd love to know why your so confident in your Elvis read that you defending her three times more often then a "Obsessive" amount
This. OMG This.
TheButtonmen wrote:I find with meta's like Death Notes I find it allot harder to find connections / scumtells due to second guessing and not knowing how much to read into their reactions to pressure.
Welcome to how I feel whenever I play with DeathNote.
@VMD
VMD wrote:I want to get it out there that I'm also giving DN the benefit of the doubt for now due to meta reasons; I have read bits and pieces of many games on this website, including a couple that DN was in, and it seems that he always acts like this, and almost always gets lynched for it early on in the game. That said, I certainly don't want to give him an imprint any time soon. People with anti-town metas are far too much of a wildcard to risk something like that.
Thank you for being one of the few people to know where I am coming from when it comes to DeathNote.
VMD wrote:Yes, but she reciprocated the buddying. She imprinted him back, and unless she's just terribly, terribly inexperienced with mafia, her reasoning for that imprint is just plain BS.
And you are right. I was curious to see if I just voted to imprint him because he did so for me what the reactions would be.
VMd wrote:@Starbuck: Why are you voting to imprint me?
I'm voting to imprint you because I feel that you are pro-town along with TheButtonmen.
On DeathNote
His posts towards the end of page 12, especially when he explicitly stated that he was using appeal to emotion, just screams scum right there. Had I not been with my family and had I been caught up with the game, my vote would have moved right then.
On xRx
xRx wrote:Messiah's 236 is a strong post: SC says Starbuck is "obsessed with" and "defending" DN, but someone could just as easily say that he is doing the same with elvis (and vice versa). If it's a scumtell for Starbuck, then it's a scumtell for either elvis or SC. Just because you openly defend someone you read as town (which, way to give NO reasoning behind your unbelievably strong town-read on elvis, SC) doesn't mean that it's more acceptable just because someone thinks the attacks on another null-read are bullshit.
QFT.
xRx wrote:@Plum: how many imprints would you give between 1-5, and who are your imprint candidates at the moment?
Actually, let's make that question @EVERYONE.
At this exact moment at your Post 346...
1. Farside
2. VMD
3. TheButtonmen
4. Plum
5. xRx
I also would love to be imprinted. I think that anyone saying that they don't want to be imprinted is a liar.