Mini #893 - Dollhouse Mafia (Game Over!)

[farside22]

Oh I get all that but my thought is more simpler.
Giving in imprint to a town could give us more information.
Giving in imprint to scum could mean giving them a kill.
imprint 2 players today see what the results are. Then we do not imprints the next day and hunt for scum. Then if we find the 2 we imprinted as not scum again we imprint them again.

I see no harm in imprinting 2 players for informational purposes at this point.

[iamausername]

-=Vote Count #16=-

Alaska (4) - Hawaii, Colorado, Ohio, Iowa
Arizona (3) - Alaska, Georgia, Virginia
Ohio (1) - Kansas

Not Voting (3) - Arizona, Florida, Montana

6 to lynch.

-=Imprint Count #16=-

Hawaii (5) - Kansas, Ohio, Montana, Hawaii, Florida
Montana (3) - Kansas, Ohio, Montana
Florida (2) - Ohio, Florida
Colorado (2) - Ohio, Iowa
Georgia (2) - Montana, Georgia
Ohio (1) - Ohio
Iowa (1) - Iowa
Virginia (1) - Georgia
Alaska (0)
Arizona (0)
Kansas (0)

6 to imprint.

ALASKA = SerialClergyman
ARIZONA = Starbuck
COLORADO = Messiah
FLORIDA = Limerickx
GEORGIA = Plum
HAWAII = TheButtonmen
IOWA = xRECKONERx
KANSAS = farside22
MONTANA = Pug89
OHIO = Vala Mal Doran
VIRGINIA = elvis_knits

[SerialClergyman]

Well, you could have 2 scum players who then build up an excessive amount of powers, including the ability to kill. You'd be risking two full lynches.

It just doesn't make sense to me to do that when we have a lot of info and a scum flip. It's game on. Let's imprint if we run into trouble.

[farside22]

Well, you could have 2 scum players who then build up an excessive amount of powers, including the ability to kill. You'd be risking two full lynches.

It just doesn't make sense to me to do that when we have a lot of info and a scum flip. It's game on. Let's imprint if we run into trouble.

Now it just sounds like you would rather keep the town uninformed.
Tell me with the 2 people who have the most votes to get imprinted what about them makes you think they are scum?

[elvis_knits]

Also, the DN lynch should be a lesson that people who suggest anti-town plans, refuse to see the error, and continue to push a scum agenda...

ARE SCUM.

farside is saying she has a simpler thought about imprinting and the plans and such. But, you know what is the simplest plan of all?

Lynch the people who look like scum.

Lynch the people who protected scum.

[farside22]

@SC I looked at your comments on how you tried to break the game.

Thebuttonman stated this:
post 55
Then you stated this:

post 65

Reading the 2 buttonman was looking for something that more favorable to town where you found the reason it wouldn't work by sending a PM to the mod. TheButton still had the idea first reading the read. Anyone reading that just will go into the well he asked the mod what would happen in this case which isnt' really game breaking in my view.

[farside22]

Well, you could have 2 scum players who then build up an excessive amount of powers, including the ability to kill. You'd be risking two full lynches.

It just doesn't make sense to me to do that when we have a lot of info and a scum flip. It's game on. Let's imprint if we run into trouble.

Also imprinting later in the game is bad.

3 scum vs 8 town right now.

chances of town receiving an imprint are higher. Waiting to see if we mislynch. How many are you willing to take that chance on before imprinting? How long to you keep people uninformed and based on theory of nightless? Then it walks into my theory of scum bussing day 1 trying to look town and leaving the town believing them to be town bussing their scum buddy.

[TheButtonmen]

@ SC

Could you quote three (3) posts where you feel Starbuck is defending DN?

[TheButtonmen]

EBYOP: Is anyone else pretty much unable to use the site? I can't use the quote button and posts aren't appearing.

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah, the site is super-fucked right now. Also,

unvote

.

I want to figure out the imprinting thing first.

[elvis_knits]

2.) Really? Because I seem to recall being one of the players that started the wagon on DN.

I went back and checked on this and you are correct that you voted DN early, so perhaps some town points there. But then you abandoned DN to vote SC on the back of Starbuck's accusations (I think you were riding Starbuck coattails there).

You did come back to the DN wagon eventually when his death became inevitable. But when a scumbag's death passes the point of no return like that, I don't consider any votes to help finish him off to be necessarily pro-town.

Overall interaction with DN is neutral at best.

[elvis_knits]

I'm doing a catalogue of people's reactions to DN's plan... and the more I read I am starting to think that Messiah is not a DN buddy. He WAS one of the people who kept mentioning that DN was scummy even when others look like they were purposely avoiding.

Feeling better about Messiah.

[elvis_knits]

Catalogue of the responses to DN's scumbag gameplan from page 1:

1)

Are you trying to pull a fast one?

If scum EVER get a majority of imprints, they will forever keep those imprints - meaning if we give a role to everyone today, all the scum players will have a role for the rest of the game.

2)

vote: Deatnote

3)

@DeathNote: Do you still feel that a mass-imprint is a good idea given the information we've received since your last post?

4)

I was down for the 'imprint everyone' idea until I heard the fact that Rogues don't have a night kill ability, unless imprinted with it.

(No actual mention of deathnote, only of plan)

5)

The imprint everybody plan would certainly result in an exciting night, but there is no way to tell how that would turn out. We don't know what powers will be given (except possibly a killing power) and this early in the game determining who is scum can be difficult. On the other hand, imprinting everyone would give us a lot to go on the next day, but if scum get a killing role they can continue to use it because the potential pool of players to be imprinted with it will be everyone.

(Again, no mention of deathnote, only of plan)

6)

@DN: Let's say we go with imprinting everyone. How many townies do you think need to be confirmed in the night for it to be worth giving scum powers indefinitely? I don't think confirming one townie is worth it at all.

7)Buttonemen - nothing re: DN's plan (maybe later, I didn't ISO him, but not at first, he was just pushing his breaking strat)

8)

Anyway. It's no good imprinting everybody (well, that's partly under my preconceived notion that the imprint-gains are balanced such that the balance of power remains roughly the same as with no imprints and that to gain an edge on the odds we have to imprint more town than scum proportional to the town/scum ratio). And that means we try to give out multiple imprints but not to people we suspect.

(late arrival, votes DN in this same post... did I mention plum is town?)

9)

SC seems to get a bit overaggressive over DeathNote's suggested idea to imprint everyone in Post 13, as did Elvis when she voted DeathNote in Post 14. He was just throwing out an idea, and you both overreacted quite a bit.

On DeathNote

I definitely don't like his pressure of trying to make everyone choose between either one of his plans.

I've played with DeathNote before and it very much seems like he was just trying to get ideas out there. I'm not getting a completely scummy feeling from him.

10)

Pages 1-5: Nothing! Setup-related paranoia. My comment is: if we wanna play, let us trust the Mod. Imprinting rules surely make this game enough balanced.

(Doesn't even mention any plans, let alone DN, "not touching that with ten foot pole")
(lew became reck)

11)Farside: replaces in and says almost nothing about DN, never mentions his plan. Focuses almost entirely on me and SC.

DN: is the first person to make me want to smack my head via post 172 - congrats! Okay now that my sarcasm is out of the way. How on earth do you say that someone is not scum but not town either? LOL

[farside22]

11)Farside: replaces in and says almost nothing about DN, never mentions his plan. Focuses almost entirely on me and SC.

You and SC said it all and I wasn't going to repeat it all over again how bad a plan it was and senseless.
But please keep ignoring my point about what I asked SC about not imprinting and how town is more likely to get imprinted over scum since you're so fond of being a mouthpiece for him why don't you explain how my logic is flawed for imprinting.

[elvis_knits]

So obviously defending DN and his plan is the scummiest move there. We have:

Starbuck

Then I think the people who ignored DN entirely or addressed the plan without talking about DN, are much more suspicious than people who asked DN direct questions.

These people are:
Limerick
Pug
Buttonmen
lew
farside

But we can probably eliminate buttonmen for breaking strategy, etc. And I tend to think we can eliminate Pug since pug was not part of the crazy incestuous imprint voters from yesterday. But pug may be an alternate.

drumroll please!

The scum are:

Starbuck
limerick
lew
farside

Oh no. That's four, and there's only three left. Well, 3 out of 4 there are probably scum.

[farside22]

@ SC

Could you quote three (3) posts where you feel Starbuck is defending DN?

I can do this and placed in bold those defense's from starbuck about DN

On DeathNote
I definitely don't like his pressure of trying to make everyone choose between either one of his plans.

I've played with DeathNote before and it very much seems like he was just trying to get ideas out there. I'm not getting a completely scummy feeling from him

.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 08#2007508

You know SC...I have DeathNote in my null category right now, but I love how you jump so quick because I mentioned his name in a semi-positive faction and yours and elvis's in not such a positive faction.

This quick overreaction just makes you look scummier.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 61#2007561

I don't feel I misrepped you at all. That's exactly how it felt when I read it. Also, if you read the rules of the game, you would have known that the rogue actives could retain their powers. It surprises me, even after your blatant posts about reading over the rules carefully, that you admit to not doing so.

There was plenty of ideas and theories being thrown around at the time of your vote on DeathNote. I agree that not everyone should be imprinted and he sees now why this is a bad idea, but why must it only be after YOU point out that its anti-town or scummy?

You are making this situation to be entirely about you, when it's not.

At that point, DeathNote made a suggestion. Later on, yes, he wanted to limit people to two options which I find scummy, but at that point he just merely gave an idea. You blew it completely out of proportion.

I did paraphrase you because I was taking notes in notepad as I caught up. You still only semi-conceded to the idea AFTER SC said it was be decent, but NOT until that point.



If you read the rest of my post, instead of picking apart what you wanted, you would see that I did state my opinion on his idea and that it really wouldn't be a good one.

I also have already stated that I have a null tell currently on DeathNote, due to meta reasons.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 95#2008095

unvote:
vote: starbuck

[TheButtonmen]

@ SC

Could you quote three (3) posts where you feel Starbuck is defending DN?

I can do this and placed in bold those defense's from starbuck about DN

Awsome now SC has two mouth pieces as you and elvis answer questions for him....

[TheButtonmen]

But please keep ignoring my point about what I asked SC about not imprinting and how town is more likely to get imprinted over scum since you're so fond of being a mouthpiece for him

Oh the irony...

[farside22]

@ SC

Could you quote three (3) posts where you feel Starbuck is defending DN?

I can do this and placed in bold those defense's from starbuck about DN

Awsome now SC has two mouth pieces as you and elvis answer questions for him....

No I still think EK is scum but it's easy to look for to anyone really.

[farside22]

But please keep ignoring my point about what I asked SC about not imprinting and how town is more likely to get imprinted over scum since you're so fond of being a mouthpiece for him

Oh the irony...

Most of it came here by the way from SC:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 58#2008558

[xRECKONERx]

Vote: Starbuck

On second thought, lynching Starbuck is a better plan. Passively defending someone who flips scum is a no-no.

[farside22]

I love EK trying to make a list like that but you forgot about VMD and all in which SC did point out her defending DN as well. So yeah it's things like that that I believe VMD and EK to be scum together.
I know outting all your scum buddies is a no, no EK but please if your going to follow's someone else's logic at least make sure you dont' forget anyone.

[Vala Mal Doran]

A vote means you believe someone is scum.

Well, I found a point we disagree on, then. It was early enough in the game that I really didn't have any suspects. Therefore, a vote to get more appropriate discussion going is perfectly acceptable imo. If you look back at the post where I vote button, I make it quite clear that I'm not voting him because I think he's scum, I vote him because he's being against the spirit of a game that I want to play properly.

I had a long list of things that bothered me most of which is how you say I get town vibes from you but don't say why. You said it to about 3 people to the point it lost all meaning. And your scum list where you list 3 people on the buttom because they didn't contribute is someone not looking for scum but looking fur lurkers.

Not contributing is a scumtell. I've yet to find an issue with most of the people who are contributing, though, with the exception of SC and possibly you (your reasons still aren't getting any better, and I can't just let slide that your predecessor was AWOL, either).

@SC: Did it ever occur to you in your arrogance that maybe people aren't disagreeing with you because they're scum, and instead they're disagreeing with you because you keep trying to control town's actions?

[Messiah]

I'm down for a Starbuck lynch. I believe I said that I would find her defense of DN scummy if he flipped scum, and I stand by that. I'm going to allow her the opportunity to post before hammering since she hasn't gotten a chance to respond to anything yet.

[elvis_knits]

I love EK trying to make a list like that but you forgot about VMD and all in which SC did point out her defending DN as well. So yeah it's things like that that I believe VMD and EK to be scum together.
I know outting all your scum buddies is a no, no EK but please if your going to follow's someone else's logic at least make sure you dont' forget anyone.

See, the thing is I'm not trying to make my analysis fit any preconceived notions. So I don't mind if it doesn't match up exactly with SC's imprint-orama-remix. Both our analysis are tools to help find scum. Even a good analysis probably doesn't nail all scumbags. If it catches a few then it does its job.

Perhaps it would be good to see who figures highest on both those scum list analyses and go from there.