Mini 885 - Boom, Game Gutshot/Abandoned by Mod!

[ChiboSempai]

/confirming

[ChiboSempai]

Vote: ConfidAnon

How are we supposed to trust "The Mole"

...

[ChiboSempai]

Where's rite?

Unvote Vote rite

[ChiboSempai]

So, why aren't we voting rite? lol

[ChiboSempai]

VI is pretty much bastard modding. Since our mod is dead I don't see how the mod can go on about bastard modding, so I don't think we have a VI.

Can you please explain this further? Pretty much as what you mean by bastard modding, as I've never heard the term.

---

As much as I almost want to ignore 5cvm's claim, I just hate WIFOM like that. No one is going to like it in the end. It certainly isn't going to help someone who was town or mafia really. The first thing that came to mind when I read it was if he could possibly be a Jester.

---

I'm not particularly liking xvart's replies

[ChiboSempai]

Before anyone reads this post, since some people seem to believe for some reason that it's NOT good to look out for a Jester, this mindset is horrible imo. This is a forum based game with a ton of days set aside for each in-game day, potentially weeks. There is plenty of time to discover Jesters, Mafia, Independants, fell Town members, and all of that at the same time. We should be working to discover the game as a whole, by forgetting about the possibility of the Jester we are completely turning our back on a possible big part of the game. Imo as a mafia player you should play for a complete win. Sure as both town and mafia you can share a win with the Jester, but what's the point. We should work to achieve the best win possible.

---

I don't understand what all of this bastard mod business is about. I asked what it was because I didn't think it was the obvious explanation - the mod being a bastard. Jesters are parts of a lot of games, deal with it. In the 6 or so games I've been a part of, there's been a Jester in the setup 3 times if I'm not mistaken, and not all of my games are done yet so there could be more. The way you guys are acting is quite annoying. Instead of bitching about the possibility of the Jester, find out who he is, and don't let him win. If we find out who he is, we can mark them off as a person to not lynch.

And what's the big deal with the mod being dead so to speak? It's called flavor text. The mod was simply setting the mood for the game. He could have put Mr. Faker McFakerFaker the Mayor Died Night 0 and it would be no different. Learn to discern between what information is important for us to know and what isn't.

---

Why it's good to hunt for Jesters (Referring to some people's claims of it being scummy like ConfidAnon):
-Jesters are part of the game, we shouldn't refuse to turn our backs on any part of the game. Knowledge is power.
-A Jester is independent that can win the game. If we discover who they are, we can stop them from winning.
-If we can discover who the Jester is, that's someone we can take off of our potential lynch pool. Making the lynch pool smaller and smaller makes it easier to target scum. For instance, we're at 12 members right now. With today's lynch at the moment we have a 1/12 chance (or 8.3%) in lynching a scum member with a lynch pool of 12. If we work enough to deduce who we think can be a Jester, then we're taking a person out of our lynch pool (since we're labeling someone as a person we don't want to lynch), we would have a 1/11 chance (or 9%) in lynching scum. Every extra little bit helps.
-Jesters do not help the town. They get in the way of the game essentially and by them making the town want to lynch them, it's only going to stop the town from lynching scum. Yes, our main focus in the game is too take out the scum, though a Jester trying to get us to lynch him is going to lead us off track from our main goal. Finding out who the Jester is can help our judgment and keep our eyes on the main goal.

---

As for me saying how I don't like xvart's replies, sorry about this. It doesn't really apply anymore. It was originally when you said how you though 5cvm was really scummy, but didn't vote him and the next two people pointed out why you didn't. I was confused at all of that because you asked if there could be a VI, and in every game and situation I've dealt with so far it's always been called a Jester, so I had no idea what a VI was. Now that I know it means Village idiot, a lot has been cleared up and I understand your position at the time.

Though one thing of note seems that you are being fairly defensive against the claims of you Jester hunting. Whether or not you want to - or even if you were in the first place, it seemed to have struck a soft spot on you when people are trying to use it as a scumtell for you, though tbh, so many people will make a scumtell out of anything on D1 since there's nothing else to go off of yet.

[ChiboSempai]

True, my mistake about the stupid calculations lol. Either way, eliminating someone from the lynch pool increases our chances of finding scum.

However everyone, don't count 5cvum out just yet, just keep this in mind. There are plenty of things that can be done to help the situation, such as waiting for a potential cop to investigate him, waiting for nightkills, etc.

In the worst case scenario that he is actually scum (damnit WIFOM) then we would eventually learn more intel later as to whether or not he's telling the truth.

[ChiboSempai]

I started playing maifa at SWF before here, which is where my other games are. What's the difference between a Theme game and a Normal game? They're essentially the same without flavor text. So yea, Crayola Catastrophe was a mini game on this site that did have a Jester.

I fixed my wording on the stance of this in a recent post. It's not that I'm straight out eliminating 5cvm out of a lynch pool indefinitely, I'm just saying that he's likely not a safe lynch

today

. More intel will come as to whether or not he is a Jester, and it's just something we should keep in mind.

ConfidAnon - Well yea, they are more than likely to get lynched as all they have to do is purposefully act scummy and make the town want to lynch him, but you should definitely know that lynching isn't the only way to kill someone lol. There's tones of other ways someone can die, from both day and night killers (not to mention the common mafia night kill).

Jesters are anti-town. Straight up, as they are another faction that can take the win away from the Town and mess up their judgment. By lynching a Jester you're

not

lynching scum which is the whole point of the game. However, the Jester is also anti-mafia as well. Same as town, it's another faction that can take a true win away, not to mention with the bullcrap a Jester can cause, with how 5cvm is claiming these scumbuddies, what if one of those 2 were actually scum? I'm sure the scum wouldn't like someone just making brash claims that could be putting unnecessary attention on the scum members.

Let's move beyond this, people mostly seem to be in agreement with this mindset. There isn't much to go off of in any Day 1 situation, especially in this game that's very young as it is. How about them reactions to 5cvms claim?

[ChiboSempai]

~Trying to read this all again and I can't make heads or tails of it.

5cvm keeps claiming that all of these different people are scum, yet he says himself that he is scum so he would know who scum are. Yet he goes and votes who he knows are scum but that would be scum voting scum which a scum's goal should be to vote town, there's really no sense in bussing this early in the game. Perhaps the most important thing to realize is that he has 0 proof for why we should believe all of these claims or think that these people are scum.

One thing that stood out to me is when 5cvm first said that TheButtonMen and xvart were scum, then Button goes and votes xvart. Just going ahead and agreeing with 5cvm almost makes me think that Button is trying to clear himself in everyone elses eyes by voting someone who has been called out as scum. This is the only way I could see bussing be valid this early in the game if by some stroke of luck 5cvm actually did just conveniently out 2 scum members. That's a chance I'm not willing to take this early though.

Rite - mind giving some more input on the game so far, mostly concerning with not 5cvm's self claim, but his assertion of who he has said is scum so far.

[ChiboSempai]

Oh yea, I forgot

Now that rite is finally confirmed...

Unvote

[ChiboSempai]

Now as for the whole jester thing, even if there is a Jester (and I don't think there is), god forbid the Jester and the town win. The town still wins! However if we compromise our scum hunting because of fear of a jester then that increases the chance of town not winning.

God forbid the Jester and the Town win as in... you're ok if the Jester is lynched.

A Jester being lynched is NOT a scum player being lynched, which is ultimately our goal.

[ChiboSempai]

I am convinced that 5cvm can only be a Jester. It's the only thing that makes any sort of sense.

I'm not a jester, I'm scum. However you thinking that does serve my purposes so cheers!

what is your objective?

Good question. My objective is to eliminate the town. However, I know that in order to not get lynched, I should play in the town's best interests. And since I know that Xvart and TheButtonmen are my scumbuddies and hitogoroshi is the informed SK, it is very easy to play in the town's best interest.

I somehow missed this post before, this was the first time I saw it.

What?

Why do you believe hitogoroshi is an SK? Also, what do you mean by the

informed

SK?

If all 5cvm is going to do this game is just claim random people are random bad roles, we can't even listen to this guy. As much as I hate to practically block him out of my mind, this nonsense he keeps saying is ultimately going to stray us off track. Though that in turn is a pretty scummy tactic. Damnit I can't let this WIFOM nonsense get to me.

[ChiboSempai]

@

ChiboSempai

, How do you propose we differentiate between scum play and jester play then?

Just acting scummy isn't the fastest and most effective way to get lynched. Acting scummy will only have the mafia members want to keep you around, as it is a scummy acting not scum person that the town can focus on to lynch, stopping any mafia members from getting lynched.

A Jester needs to make sure they are lynched, and needs what is potentially the most amount of votes in each day phase, coming from both townies and scum. Acting scummy won't get mafia players to vote for you, so a Jester has to piss them off in other ways, such as accidentally outting them and/or drawing unnecessary attention to them (exactly what 5cvm is doing with claiming that various people are his scumbuddies).

@

Aranfan

Eliminating someone as a possible scum because they are too scummy to be scum is a terrible idea! Sigh even if there was a a Jester; playing as a Jester is basically playing like scum (given that a jester wants to be lynched, thus they emulate scum). So if there was a jester there should be no way to tell their posts apart from scums. Thus to assume there's a jester and ignore scummy posts for being to scummy means you also ignore scum tells from the mafia.

Except that Scum are trying to act like town so as to not get lynched. That means Jesters will be overt, while Scum will be covert. 5cvm is clearly and obviously a Jester, we can thus move on to hunting the real scum.

Although the question occurs as to who gets first place if the Jester lynched as the final anti-town faction.

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong on my interpretation of all this, but this is the worst thing I've seen all game yet (outside of the 5cvm case obviously).

1. You're completely certain that 5cvm is a Jester. Even though it is possible, and that is practically the discussion at hand, we've also made it quite clear that everything that has happened does not make it that 5cvm is 100% Jester. This could be a genius mafia ploy to make us not lynch him. However, the point that has come from all of this is that it's safer to not lynch him today at least, and see if we get any future intel in next day or 2 for us to better determine if he is a Jester or not.

2. You said in your next post yourself that there was someone who acted like 5cvm and ended up being the Doc, and yet you're extremely confident that 5cvm is a Jester.

Vote: Aranfan

[ChiboSempai]

Tbh I think we're spending a bit too much time on the 5cvm case, though some new tidbits about it have arisen. The fact that it's an alt account for someone else possibly just used to mess around is interesting (and it really pisses me off if that is true) but there's no way we can just auto confirm a role from him out of this since there technically is no proof from him about this. Even if 5cvm we're to flat out say himself that the account is an alt made to just mess around, how would we be expected to believe him on that without believing his other claims that he really is mafia and so and so are the mafia. Can't believe one claim can't believe another.

Regardless of what he actually is, for the possibility that he could be a Jester (which is a possibility from his actions), it's just safer to not lynch him today and wait for more information.

[ChiboSempai]

As for sparking some more not-5cvm discussion, since it's hard to work off nothing (since it's early in Day 1) how about some questions for people.

From my personally, first some questions for Aranfan (since he's who I'm voting atm)

1. Have you ever played as an independent role in a mafia game? If so, and it's the type of indie that wins by being the sole survivor, what did you do to try and stay alive at all costs? If you haven't been one before, if you were an indie with the win condition of being a sole survivor - what would be your basic plan of action?
2. Could you please explain your quote "Although the question occurs as to who gets first place if the Jester lynched as the final anti-town faction." a bit better, as the second half sort of confuses me. Do you mean if the Jester is lynched after the mafia is already taken out?
3. Judging by what I quoted, you deem the Jester to be an anti-town role (obviously though), but why exactly do you think so?
4. Let's say you were scum and someone claimed in the game that he knew you were scum. You know everyone in your alignment however and you know that they certainly are not scum, and he got a lucky guess in claiming you. How do you react?

And some more generic questions. Randomly selecting 3 people from the 12. Random.org gave me...
A_Squirrel, ConfidAnon, and 5cvm (damnit lol)
1. What's your favorite type of role to play as out of Vanilla Townie, Town Power Role, or Mafia?
2. Day is coming close to an end early on in the game (D1 or D2 I'd say) and if majority isn't reached the decision goes to No Lynch. Do you continue on with the No Lynch or push to lynch someone, whoever it might be. Perhaps you could target someone who has been inactive and coasting, or perhaps some other random quality.
3. About how many games of mafia have you played in?

[ChiboSempai]

EBWOP, the last post was ninja'd by Confid and I didn't see it until I finished and posted my last thing.

[ChiboSempai]

@TheButtonMen: I'm not questioning whether or not 5cvm is an alt, I was questioning if the alt's purpose was to just mess around and perhaps not play serious, and instead act crazy like he is now.

[ChiboSempai]

ChiboSempai

- Why did you use random.org to pick three names for your second set of questions instead of just posing the questions to all players?

Having answers for those questions from 12 people (including me) all at once could be a bit much to take in. I'll either ask more ppl the same question or think of some new ones. They aren't too serious (the 2nd set), it was more to just get a feel for people in general and their playstyles since I'm sure everyone (including me) haven't been in a game with everyone else at some point.

---

As for when I said not liking xvart's replies....
ummm.... (reading back)

"Nobody is "jester hunting." I asked a question about game setup."

While it wasn't bad (which is why I used the adjective particularly and not flat out, and why I didn't vote him), instead of saying something simple like I had just asked about the game set up, he had to add that no one is jester hunting which seemed a little pre cautious and definitely wanting no suspicion on him. I mean sure no one wants suspicion, but just the way he said it seemed kind of off.


Anyway, time to go camping out for Black Friday, and when I come back I'll be crazy tired and going right to sleep, so I doubt I'm going to post for the rest of the night and tomorrow.

[ChiboSempai]

Yea I've been back since yesterday, there's just really nothing to really comment on.

[ChiboSempai]

Definitely keeping my vote on Aranfan now. The mod already said he's going to replace magisterrain and yet you're trying to push a quick lynch on him. Completely not a town move at all.

[ChiboSempai]

ChiboSempai

I was eager to read this one. From the few quotes I've seen. I want to see if those questions and activity really aim somewhere. Ok. Post 4 is a nice town-tell for him regarding 5cvm. His annoyance seems genuine.

One thing that stood out to me is when 5cvm first said that TheButtonMen and xvart were scum, then Button goes and votes xvart. Just going ahead and agreeing with 5cvm almost makes me think that Button is trying to clear himself in everyone elses eyes by voting someone who has been called out as scum.

Noted. Very interesting.

Welcome to the game! I especially like your first post. As everyone else said it's very neatly laid out, easy to read, etc. Already offering a lot of insight on what's been said.

As for your questions from your part on me...

-Sorry my count was a little off, it wasn't 3, it was 2. Though I am in the middle of other games were a Jester is suspected.
I haven't been playing mafia for too long so I haven't been in that many games though what I have been in:

Mafiascum

Bloodlust Mafia - Game Over
Crayola Catastrophe - Game Over, Jester lynched D1
Mafia in the Village - D1 lol

Smash World Forums

Grammys Mafia - Game Over, Can't Link (Thread is in Mod only area), Jester lynched D1
Anime Mafia - D3, Can't Link (Thread is in Mod only area)
Mafia Tournament Sleepover - N2
Monster Island Mafia - D1

Those are all my games incase anyone is interested. The order that they started were - Grammys, Bloodlust, Crayola, Tournament, Anime, Mafia in the Village, Monster Island. Jesters confirmed in 2 of those 7 games, even still leaving quite an impression on me though.

-It's possible, I was more just stating all of the possibilities. If 5cvm is a Jester then all the mafia knows is that they aren't one of them. For all they know to them that he could possibly be town. With all of 5cvms random claims if he accidentally guessed right (perhaps like Button in the post of mine you quoted). Even though a Jester could distract the town, with the way 5cvm is playing he could be drawing unneeded attention to possibly scum members, something they may not want.

-I mean let's face it, Jester is more anti-town than anti-mafia I would say, though a Jester can still draw unneeded attention to the scum (with how 5cvm is playing at least) and it's still another role that can take away an ideal win from the scum.

-The questions were more for to get a feel for everyones play styles. I read over the questions but didn't look too much into it yet. Everyone can use their answers as they want. I like to look for consistency in how ppl play. If I can tell from their answers that they would normally play a certain way (especially if I say like what would you do in such and such situation if you were town) and I see them acting completely different in this game, I know something is up.

-I haven't seen anyone else yet sort of slip up as much as Aranfan. I could be wrong, hell, no one is ever 100% on their votes especially in a D1 scenario, but after what he did when I first voted him and now trying to push a quick lynch on you (or should I say the role b4 you joined) when the mod already said he was going to be replaced feels like scum trying to quickly end the day without much discussion and ending it on who could potentially not be a scum member.

-Here is what I said about xvart's posts: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 31#1985031

[ChiboSempai]

Sorry about that, I was unexpecredly unavailable the past 2 days and forgot to post about it.

Either way... quoting stuff now

[ChiboSempai]

Humble, the thing is that 5cvm has made it abundantly clear he never intends to offer content. I don't want to keep a player like that until the endgame; he will be an active detriment to town. And the time to do a lynch like that is now, because we'll have more content D2 to work off of to pick our lynch (a nk and more posts, as well as knowledge of 5cvm's flip.) Do you really intend to leave him around the entire game? Do you really want to say, "Congratulations, 5cvm, you are such a terrible player we're going to let you live despite the fact you will never be a productive member of this game!"

As such, I'm keen to string up him so we can move on to more concrete matters. There is a such thing as 'too much content' and 'too long of a day', and the fact is D1 is one prone to mislynches because there is a lot of speculation and not much real information. It's a perfect day to policy lynch, because we don't NEED to know about everyone else: we know 5cvm is going to play anti-town, so we can murder him alignment be damned. It really is that simple.

How is he detrimental to the game? Just ignore his posts. How will his flip give us info? I can't see one possible way some crazy person like this would give us an informative flip. Lets say what if he does flip scum, what would be your next move? He's practically pointed the finger at all of us, its not like we can say, oh crap that means he does know who scum is and we can target one of them, cause hes targeted like 11 ppl lolz.

It is seeming like your using his annoyance to push for a lynch on someone that rly shouldnt be lynched right now.

[ChiboSempai]

@ChiboSempai

. I know where you come from now. But still, you should only take into account MS games. Other websites lack the theory to make really balanced setups. MS is generally more balanced because it has more documentation and history.

Website experience doesn't mean anything. Most of the ppl I play with on SWF also have accounts here as well and seem to know a lot more about the game than half of the ppl I run into on this site. This is kinda awkward to see coming from someone who only has 1.5 games of exp (not saying that I don't have a lot but still...)

[ChiboSempai]

@ Evilgorrilaz

, I of the opinion ending D1 with a policy lynch right now seems to be giving Mafia a free turn. We don;t know enough that I feel like we should bring day 1 to a close but we do know enough I think we can make a choice based on something other then annoyance

Think about it this way.
1) We lynch scum. (Yay)
2) We lynch vanilla townie, which is what probably gets lynched anyways (and it lets power roles have a free night as well).
3) We lynch a power role.
For options 2 and 3, I would much rather lynch one of those that is being anti-town than being pro-town.

And its not based on annoyance. Its based on genuine anti-town play. Its like actively lurking.

So according to you, we are almost certain to lynch a townie today (you say likely vanilla townie but also leave the possibility of power townie open together completely dwarfing the chance of getting scum. So let me ask you, why wouldn't you vote no lynch since your practically asking someone from the town to be killed.

[ChiboSempai]

I really don't want to drop my suspicion on Aranfan. I'm going to remember it regardless because up until now it was the only thing so far that kind of hit my radar.

I'm not particularly liking EvilGorillaz posts, but not enough yet to make me wanna lynch him or think hes scum

imo its time to focus on hitogoroshi

Unvote Vote hitogoroshi

[ChiboSempai]

I just realized something, I don't know how relevant it is, but I think it will be somewhat enlightening regarding 5cvm's behavior

5=S (leet)
c=c
v=u (roman)
m=m



I'm thinking Milkshake made this alt for the sole purpose of screwing around as an anti-town jackass.

You just realized that? -_-

[ChiboSempai]

5cvm - are you going to claim if you are put to L-1 or are you going to continue to be a lame loser? If I were the mod I would force replace you and ban you and milkshake from future games. Being an asswipe like this, unless it specifically tells you to do so (which I doubt considering it is a mini normal), ruins the game for everyone.

As much as I am against the 5cvm lynch on D1, why don't you put him at L-1 to find out if he'l claim? No way to find out without actually doing it.

[ChiboSempai]

I was thinking more about the should we lynch a possible Jester debate (not whether or not 5cvm is one, cause there's no sure way to tell)
In the rules it states:
<3> Play to your win condition.

Our win condition is to eliminate all threats to the town. So, would you consider a Jester to be a threat to the town or someone out to just get themselves lynched no matter what?

Either way, it's likely safer to look for the other scum.

My suspicions still lie on...
hitogoroshi - Seems to be pushing for 5cvm's lynch a little too hard just for how he's posting and playing. Even if it's an alt account (we know it is) made to just be messing around then the way he acting can't really be determined as a scumtell or not yet.
Aranfan - Claimed that he was sure that 5cvm was a Jester so we should definitely looks for other scum. I want to lynch him as much as the next person but would rather play it a little safe atm but Aranfan is trying to claim this in such a way that it seems protective. Aranfan contradicts this point by also saying there was a game that someone acted like a Jester but ended up being a doc, so now if 5cvm acts painfully like a Jester, why would you be 100% sure he is, when experiencing a similar situation and the person wasn't a Jester? Aranfan also tries to force a quick lynch on magisterain to "save the mod trouble" after the mod already said he was going to replace him. Horrible horrible horrible.

Even though my latest vote was on hitorogoshi, re-evaluating the two I would rather get Aranfan out of here sooner than later. If we lynch Aranfan and he flips scum then we can also sort of get a connection with 5cvm out of that with how he tried to convince us that he was 100% Jester and that he shouldn't be lynched.

Unvote Vote Aranfan

[ChiboSempai]

Yea Scott honestly why would you vote for 5cvm for nothing more than policy really after you go ahead and give 2 (sorta 1.5 I suppose) scumtells for xvart and one for Aranfan?

As for my Jester discussion, there was really no other discussion going on at the time so I don't see how it was distracting. It was later dropped when it needed to be.

Is there a deadline set for this day yet?

[ChiboSempai]

What is the 5cvm <> gorillaz connection? I didn't notice it

[ChiboSempai]

I'm so torn between wanting to lynch Aran and Hito. Hito's play is more just not helping town instead of being anti town though as time goes on. I'm with Button that if we're gonna lynch someone, it makes sense to lynch the person we have the highest scum read on - which is Aran.

Hito is doing whatever he can to sort of get us to lynch 5cvm though which really doesn't feel right. You're trying to force this idea of a policy lynch, but 5cvm isn't doing much besides rambling on about who his scumbuddies are. It's not helping town, but guess what - it's not hurting us. If anything it's more likely to hurt scum because if he happens to accidentally guess correctly (unless he is scum) saying someone else is scum, it might just bring unnecessary attention to them.

You try to use connections as well if we lynch 5cvm we can learn from his flip about gorrila, or we can learn about Aran from his flip. I agree with this, but you've got it backwards. Believe me, I've been considering this Aranfan <> 5cvm connection for a bit now, and if other people are as well...
Look at it this way, we can learn about 5cvm from Arans flip and we can learn about Aran from 5cvm's flip. So it doesn't matter really which one we lynch if we're aiming for information. HOWEVER, since it seems to be agreed here that we've got the scumtells on Aran and not as much on 5cvm (since he's just acting like an idiot, not anti town), then we lynch Aran first to learn about 5cvm for tomorrow, not the other way around.

[ChiboSempai]

VLA till tomorrow

[ChiboSempai]

I'm back today but I've still been a little busy, sorry about that - I'll catch up on the past page tomorrow

[ChiboSempai]

We need to remove the distraction now, as it will just get worse on subsequent days and hinder our ability to scum-hunt. I gave my reads on other players, but 5cvm is being so anti-town it speaks for itself. I don't see another way to go D1.

Do any of us like 5cvm? Of course not. But I still feel there is a better option for finding/looking for scum today. You just replaced into the game and I don't like this tunnelvision you have on who is easily the easiest person to cast suspicion on. You're just looking for an easy person to lynch it seems, and I REALLY don't like that.

@ChiboSempai

: I'd like you to explain

beforehand

how do you think each flip (town/scum) of each player (5cvm, aranfan) would affect the other players (5cvm, aranfan, gorrila) and why? I'm strongly against lynching to get info on other people. It's a flawed premise. Why do you think you will get efficient information to decide someone's allignment?

@ChiboSempai:

Why would you lynch hito? Don't you feel he is earnest about the policy lynch? When you say "accidently guess correctly"... do you mean you think 5cvm might accidently be scum?

I'd like someone to prove me how scott is more helpful than 5cvm. With what we have so far.

I think 5cvm is town and I think he has potential to play pro-town (in his own unique way, but still). 5cvm is the easy lynch. We won't probably gain much from his flip. Scott has jumped on him without even commenting on the game and people are fine with it.

-I already sort of explained this in past posts, I can't remember it off the top of my head atm without reading back which I'll do again soonish. We shouldn't lynch people just to get info, but think of it like a bonus. It's a legitimate thing. If someone flips scum and before that you saw someone really protecting them to try and not be lynched, you might see a possible connection there and the scum flip of player 1 might help show how player 2 is scum. The flips give hints on connections, people that pushed hard for the lynch, the hammererer, ppl who voted on him, etc.

-Same as my last point, though even more so. I've clearly outlined what I didn't like about hito, I just don't remember off the top of my mind just coming back after some days without posting. Just read back on some of my posts and you'll see why I don't like hito or Aranfan. As for the accidental comment, it's if 5cvm turns out to not be scum (can't throw out any possibility with this guy) and with his random naming of scumbuddies he happens to say someone who really is scum, unknowing to everyone else.

Everything you said there about Scott is perfect, and what I said in the first part of this reply before I read your post. Scott seems to be taking the easy road out and going for the easy 5cvm lynch which seems all too convinient for him, especially with just replacing in.

My vote for 5cvm was because hito argued his point well enough to change my mind. Is changing one's mind scummy now?

If you don't explain convincingly how and why did you change your mind... yes it is.

The fact is that you totally flipped and are now willing to vote someone you thought was a jester.

EBWOP: Specifically, Hito convinced me that the benefit to the town of lynching 5cvm outweighed the benefit of keeping the Jester alive.

This is better. But we still need a lot more from you.

Who do you think is scum? why?

Why would you do nothing but post this?

Aranfan and Chibo - what is your impression of Evilgorillaz?

Tbh I don't know much about him, but that's probably not a good thing. He seems to be coasting a bit, sort of keeping out of the light. There really isn't a reason why anyone shouldn't have some sort of an idea on another player after this much discussion. If there is no read, then they need to speak up.

As for his latest reply, I really don't understand why he's suspicious of everyone on the 5cvm wagon.

[ChiboSempai]

As for his latest reply, I really don't understand why he's suspicious of everyone on the 5cvm wagon.

I think there is at least 1 scum on the 5cvm wagon. I don't think I am alone in this thinking. xvart/you both stated hito was being too opportunistic. I kinda think scott/arafan/confidanon were being more opportunistic, but w.e

I completely agree, but in that case - you say that you think one of them is scum, not that you think they're all suspicious lol. Saying you think they're all suspicious means you think they are all scum.

Well, in terms of that way of thinking (it's another good point to add to other scumtells), I'm still eyeing Aranfan and definitely Scott now for what I said in my last post. One of the two should be lynched today. I've been vocal about Aranfan before, and Scott really hasn't helped much this game at all and is acting pretty tunneled on 5cvm without commenting on too much of the game up to now.

[ChiboSempai]

5cvm is acting so out there you can't tell if he's town or scum yet. At this point it would be better if we scumhunt elsewhere and lynch someone else. You can't get a legit scum read on 5cvm which makes him not a safe target for D1 (D2+ could be a whole other story).

Also, he's not really being anti-town. Sure he's not helping us, but not helping us =/= hurting us so to say. As a metaphor, he's not doing a "bad job," he's just not working at all really.

[ChiboSempai]

What do you think of my EG case since you apparently ignored or didn't care to read it?

I saw your case, and it's quite bothersome really. All you said is straight up that you don't like his extreme confidence on 5cvm being town. Is this a course for concern? Yes. Though what I also don't get is that the post before (maybe 2, I forget) your vote switch to EvilGorillaz you said you didn't see any other way to go about D1 than to lynch 5cvm and yet you seemed to switch pretty easily. Tell me this, why would you rather vote EG over 5cvm now?

[ChiboSempai]

Posting to avoid prod since my 72 hours are up at noon today. I'm on vacation but I'll catch up later today, it just might not be by 12

[ChiboSempai]

No, your the one making unsupported accusations the burden of proof is 100% on you. And if it's "really, really obvious" why he's antitown I don't see why thats so hard to answer.

Because the answer - he is claiming scum and has been accusing the same people of being his 'scumbuddies' all game - is so blindingly obvious I kind of figured I didn't have to say it. But, hey if you insist. Why is 5cvm anti-town?

Because he is claiming scum and has been accusing the same people of being his 'scumbuddies' all game!

Actually, if you think about it - what he's been doing is incredibly anti-scum if you put it that way, not anti-town.

Not saying it's pro town either though lol. It's sort of like neutral/annoying-town and anti-scum.

Vote Count plz?

[ChiboSempai]

Out or curiosity, is there a deadline? This day has gone on for over a month so far and everyone's really just going around in circles.

[ChiboSempai]

Also, I understand that he just said VLA, but I feel that EvilGorrilaz is being a little too quiet really, look at his latests posts and how spread apart they are with little to no content.

[ChiboSempai]

I'm back from holiday stuff


but like for real, this game needs a deadline. I've never been in day 1 for a game so long in my life

[ChiboSempai]

I suppose I'll post after the new year, but there really isn't much to say tbqh. The day is just dragging on and on and on and on. Everyone has said their case like 20 times, and I can assure you that at least mine hasn't changed.

[ChiboSempai]

January 8th is the deadline? Really?

We started this game on November 19th...

I hate to just be complaining like this but it's a major turn off for this game. This day has gone on forever and it's nearly falling inactive now without that many posts per day.

[ChiboSempai]

Sorry for missing your question Tommy but I honestly don't know, I would have to re-read to answer. This game has gone on so long that I don't remember most of the details of what happened like 2 months ago except for the major scumtells that stood out to me.

Tbh though I'd almost rather just have him lynched instead of not so we can move on and use his flip to decipher any connections he might have had with others.

[ChiboSempai]

Just shut up. What's another 5 days then. You aren't the slightest concerned that we haven't heard anything but filler-buffer posts from two players in two weeks?

Just shut up and quit protecting xvart.

When have I "protected" him?

But if you guys want to know my thoughts on him (though I honestly don't know why people are judging me and Xvart all of a sudden), I re-read some of the earlier posts in the game.

Post 70 I note how I'm saying I'm not particularly liking xvarts replies. After being questioned about it shortly after explain why exactly.

Post 37 after 5cvm claims that Buttonmen and Xvart are scum (I already brought this point up but I'm elaborating on it), Buttonmen votes Xvart. Regardless or not if 5cvm is scum, the important thing here is wondering if Buttonmen is scum or not. Why would he follow 5cvms claim so early and vote Xvart. The combination of 5cvm casting needless attention on Xvart combined with Buttonmen's vote seems to be Buttonmen trying to make himself look like the good guy in the situation trying to get people to focus on Xvart instead of himself from 5cvms claim which makes Buttonmen look like scum instead of Xvart.

Post 93 you see Xvart quote me calling him out on being too defensive for being called out on Jester hunting. His reply neither helps nor hurts the situation but the added caution suggests townie over scum.

[ChiboSempai]

Aranfan, why do you feel the need to vote EG before saying your analysis on him?

I personally hate when people do this. Well, hate as in a scum tell pretty much. If they have a legit reason for doing something (voting EG in this case), and especially after being asked for analysis and all he does is vote him and say I'll explain later, it just doesn't look good in my book. Seems to be more hoping for a quick lynch imo, so he can get the vote in asap then only worry about explaining later if he must (and if he is lynched then he will be able to weasel his way out of an explanation.

I suppose EG would be my next candidate to vote now, but I'd rather not shake off my thoughts on Aranfan so far, especially after what I just pointed out in the last paragraph (really only helps my case even further)...

[ChiboSempai]

Humble wants a complete rundown of 'everyone's thoughts on everything', before the lynch.

This will certainly be helpful for everyone to get a good grasp on the game as a whole. I'm sure most of us know where we stand in terms of top suspicions for the most part, though the players that really haven't stood out to me (as in I don't know too much about them yet) are A_Squirrel, and of course Brosius lol (though we know he's on his way to be replaced). I would also like to here more from Aranfan (who wouldn't) and xvart on the grand scheme of things here in this game.

Mod: Vote count plz

[ChiboSempai]

-Chibo better hit the ground running d2, but if he does I'm not gonna hold too much of a grudge for his lurking.

Believe me I will. Look at how active I was especially when this game started. You can't blame me for how long this day is dragging on, it's just tiresome ya know? Also considering both Christmas and New Years happened in the latter half of Day 1, a lot of us suffered some activity problems, not just me. I want to step it up Day 2, and I hope everyone feels the same way about themselves as well. Let's all hit the ground running, and I can already think of some key things to look into once Day 2 starts based off today's lynch and the night kills.

Mod: Mind if when you start Day 2 you give us a deadline (that's not TOO long @_@) right from the start? It might motivate people further to be active in the time we have.

[ChiboSempai]

can we please not have an automatic deadline?

for a game thats had some activity problems here and there and a day 1 that lasted longer than my entire last game of mafia lol, an automatic deadline is nice. (Also, I thought automatic deadlines were the standard)

[ChiboSempai]

You're kind of slow there xvart... Didn't Aranfan hammer himself?

[ChiboSempai]

... Wow three night kills

Obviously no clue as to what faction or roles shot what but gotta say it's good that the Mafia Doctor was taken down, that's a really powerful role.

I am though somewhat dissapointed at 5cvm not being night killed, especially with 2 non-mafia kills.

The last line of Civil's death flavor doesn't mean anything does it? I don't quite get it with the letter to Aranfan, though flavor really doesn't mean much anyway.

[ChiboSempai]

There's really nothing you can take about who killed who in terms of flavor. There is nothing saying that a SK has to slice or scum has to shoot. It could be the other way around.

I'm also surprised people are suggesting that there might already be no more scum left. Until we get concrete proof of this we shouldn't act like there are none left.

Judging by who died though, it's extremely likely that either the mafia or sk (if there is one) killed Furry and not the Vig. At least, it would be really stupid for a Vig to do so -_-
Since Furry just joined and didn't have time to voice his opinions, it was smart for whoever killed him to keep the town quiet.

[ChiboSempai]

It's the first time you called me out, mind telling me what has changed?

Got a solid reason for the three of us at all?

[ChiboSempai]

I really don't like how you handled the entire analysis you did. While it was great to look for connections, you auto-cleared too many people for seemingly bias reasons (like you cleared one person for one reason but not another with the same reasoning).

Example, "Of those, I'm tentatively willing to clear Button because I doubt his crusade against Aranfan was a bus."

You even said yourself later in your Chibo-Aran part "I really really doubt Chibo's campaign on Aran was a bus, same reasons as button."

I don't like how your trying to portray me in a negative light (by saying how I was suspiciously scum because of my connection, or lack there of, with civil.

Go back and re-read Day 1 if you want, I pointed out every single scumtell on Aranfan as soon as I saw them (for anyone really but Aranfan by far acted the scummiest Day 1). I also consistently voted for him nearly the entire day. There were one or two times I switched my vote to someone else but soon went right back to Aranfan not wanting to drop my original case, which we can now see is valid.

You also fail to take about humble, xvart, and YOURSELF because you guys tussled with civil a bit. Is this enough to warrant you off of a scum analysis? I don't think so.

If you're going to do an analysis like that, you've got to everyone or no one or else it's just going to make you look scummy.

[ChiboSempai]

I'm like 99% sure that the kill would still go through, at least that's how its been in every other game I've played.

Xvart's postings on EvilGorrilaz is correct imo, I really don't know why he would say that. Also if he's making us believe we got all the scum, perhaps he's hoping to get us to stop scumhunting (and only look for an SK) which could protected him (if he was scum). I just really can not see their only being 2 scum personally for balance reasons.

I agree with ASquirrels findings on xvart, particularly not jumping on the Aranfan wagon, concluding that Civil was town, and more.

The problem now is that if we're shedding light on both of them, xvart already has EG voted which can complicate things if they cross vote. Sort of like a who do we believe sort of scenario.

EG who is ur #1 suspect?

[ChiboSempai]

Even though having a mafia doctor is quite powerful, I can't see there only being 2 scum. Can anyone reference a similar game (like just a normal setup) of 12 people that had less than 3 scum? I've never personally been in one before.

[ChiboSempai]

I'm going to be away until Tuesday morning. I'm at Pound 4 and I don't have as much internet time as I thought.

The SK hunt is fine, I don't see how there isn't one. I've already added insight in it if you read back. What I'm also saying though, why do people think there isn't another mafia person? thats what i dont get.

[ChiboSempai]

Got back from my vacation sort of thing last night, at work now. Will read and post within an hour or two, depending on how busy it is here.

[ChiboSempai]

Sorry I've been so inactive lately, I was at an international Smash tourney (Pound 4) from Friday - Monday. I thought I would be able to be online for a lot of it but I was wrong. I started back up work on Tuesday and was swamped with work until yesterday and I had a night class yesterday with homework ontop of everything, so I'm finally free again with everything.

Reading through everything again and thinking about it more, I don't like EG's play atm. I see that he hasn't posted in quite a while, and one of his last posts was wondering if we should 100% focus on just an SK and forget about the mafia thinking there weren't anymore. That + coasting together gives a perfect scum read, he tries to convince us to not look for him + lies low anyway to keep safe.

I would also like to hear from him again soon and start posting.

Vote: EvilGorrilaz

Essentially when it comes down to it though, besides finding links to a specific role (like what I just did for EG), mafia hunting and sk hunting are similar. We're both trying to uncover players that don't want to be killed that are against the town.

As for the whole are we at Lylo kind of thing, it's really situation. There would have to be another scum, not lynch scum or sk and have the scum and sk both nail a townie, and have a vig mislynch all together i believe, though I didn't do the calculations.

As for "unveiling my plan" as Poirot suggested, I'm mearly just trying to find out facts about the game. If we want to get rid of the SK and determine that the SK was the one that killed Furry, we can try to determine connections between someone + Furry (connections as in a reason to kill not meaning like as an ally per se), since in games I've played (especially some with some real bastard mods), I've practically been trained not to pay attention to favor hence my comment on that.

[ChiboSempai]

What is the deal with the hardcore tunneling? Not to mention the point that you're trying to quickly end the day before other discussion.

[ChiboSempai]

What is the deal with the hardcore tunneling? Not to mention the point that you're trying to quickly end the day before other discussion.

What's the deal with avoiding to recognize that you're not town? What's with posting just a lame defense and trying to switch tables? End the day with no discussion?

Reading through everything again and thinking about it more, I don't like EG's play atm. I see that he hasn't posted in quite a while, and one of his last posts was wondering if we should 100% focus on just an SK and forget about the mafia thinking there weren't anymore. That + coasting together gives a perfect scum read, he tries to convince us to not look for him + lies low anyway to keep safe.

You're attacking the ONLY one who can't respond. You're attacking him for being focused on an SK and that makes it a "perfect" scum read? notice the word, used as an excuse. It's a PERFECT excuse to vote him. So no one can attack ME for it.

I would also like to hear from him again soon and start posting.

Your vote is easy and lame. How is EG scum or how is EG SK?

Essentially when it comes down to it though, besides finding links to a specific role (like what I just did for EG), mafia hunting and sk hunting are similar. We're both trying to uncover players that don't want to be killed that are against the town.

You're one of them. Trying to lynch someone who isn't here. I remember when they complained about Aranfan doing this trying to lynch magisterrian (me) when before I replaced in.

As for the whole are we at Lylo kind of thing, it's really situation. There would have to be another scum, not lynch scum or sk and have the scum and sk both nail a townie, and have a vig mislynch all together i believe, though I didn't do the calculations.

random nonsense. Talking about the setup to make filler post. You're not town. Face it.

As for "unveiling my plan" as Poirot suggested, I'm mearly just trying to find out facts about the game.

No. You said what you thought. This is not what I'm going after you. But it's still funny that you explained your reasons for acting like you did.

There's no connections between Furry and you and very little info to be gained for his kill... you said it yourself. That's why you did it.

@Hito: Unvote EvilGorillaz and vote chibosempai. Chibo IS here and EG is not and CHIBO is not town so we NEED to lynch him. EG can't defend himself and Chibo is just trying to save himself instead of scumhunting. Look at his post (and his earlier posts).

Everyone else who's not playing this game. Come and do so. It is extremely boring and frustrating. We should be very close to winning if we just post. I know I'm no example but I'm trying now.

Why would I attack the person who is not here? That's not what I'm doing. I was commenting on day of posts that I had missed. Sure he might not be here now, but does that mean I'm not supposed to comment on what he said before?

Everything you're posting is personal opinion trying to stick the blame on me. Lame defense? Easy and lame vote? Claiming I'm scum or SK?

I brought up the setup not as a filler post, but responding to the people that already brought it up. Try again, if you think that's a scumtell go for the people that first brought that up.

You say I'm not scumhunting yet I found something in EG's play that I found to be a scumtell and acted on it as such (100% focusing on SK and forgetting about the possibility of another scum - and who would want everyone to forget about scum? Another scum person.)

[ChiboSempai]

Posting to avoid prod incase I forget to later. I've been here multiple times today but I'm still the latest post

[ChiboSempai]

vote count plz?

[ChiboSempai]

Is this game still alive except for Jase as of late?

[ChiboSempai]

Hito, it's really not the best idea to talk about your strongest town reads. While it's ok to mention some things like who is fine and all, it's not good though to say strongest reads like that though sort of giving scum a target of who to take out. Scum can then take them out and leave us with a bunch of players that we're unsure about which makes mislynches easier to happen.

Why are you trying to force me to claim hito? There's still plenty much to be done. Flipping votes around and trying to get me to claim when I'm not even at L-1 with more to do seems more like rolefishing by pressuring to figure me out.

Fact of the matter is, we've just got a newly replaced player, EG is still absent (and not replaced afaik), or mod has gone missing, and when is the deadline anyway? The last vote count said it was Jan 26th lol (yea that seems to be right -_-)

[ChiboSempai]

If the mod has flaked perhaps a replacement one will be found? I'm not too familiar with the modding process here on this site.

Chibo, I want you to claim because this day is going slower than molasses and it will a.) give us something to do, b.) give me more time to push a counter-wagon if you claim a PR and I believe it and c.) help your lynch go through so we can go to night and wake up with some more definite information.

I suppose it would give something to talk about, but there's plenty else as well. There's no reason I should be forced to claim yet, I'm not at L-1 and our mod isn't even here keeping up with the game. If the game actually starts moving again and we can't make any other progress - then sure, I'll claim. It's not that I don't mind doing so, it's just that forcing people to when necessary isn't right imo

Chibo: Is probably the SK. I'd bet my bottom dollar. The following quote is from chibo (iso 14 I beleive)

I post questions like this to learn people and get aquainted. This isn't like the other site I'm from where it's the same 30 people or so playing all of the mafia games where you can metagame and what not. I don't know any of you, I don't know your styles, I'm just getting a feeling for how you guys go about in certain situations, handle pressure, etc. A lot of the questions I asked were modeled off of similar situations that were happening in other games I was in. WHY would I ask the game I'm in advice for playing *double facepalm*

I'd like for everyone who's around to post something about me or what I've said.

Your deductions are good and you're actually playing the game, but I'm not giving you any kind of special treatment. As much as I don't want to say it, you're still 5cvm's role, whatever the hell that means lol. I'm not ready to throw a parade just cause you play better than 5cvm like Buttonmen wants to do apparently.

---

Before I claim I'd prefer it if everyone else at least gets active first (mod including).

What makes people believe I'm the SK compared to mafia out of curiosity, what is making you guys separate one from another? The only SK specific thing I've seen is Jase's thing on him quoting my question from D1. Other than that though :/

[ChiboSempai]

You're right, by the looks of things you're still set on voting me once the mod is back.

Fine, I suppose we might as well continue to play until the mod gets back, won't hurt I suppose.

I'm claiming Vanilla Townie.

Why do you think there aren't any scum left? There's been no proof for that yet, and in a 12 person game I can't imagine there only being 2 scum.

Doctors can't typically protect themselves right? Then the use of a Mafia Doctor seems kind of awkward imo. That's only giving him one choice of someone to protect every night.

If there are 2 scum, then the Doc would have to have the ability to heal himself. Why would there be a doctor role with only one possible option of someone to heal?

We know the Doc didn't protect himself night 1 because he was nightkilled. I just can't see a doc with a single option to protect in a setup...

That means if there's only 2 scum, imo the Doc has to be able to protect himself. But that means he wouldn't have died night 1...

There has to be a third scum.

[ChiboSempai]

If the Mafia Doc wants to do mindgames (I agree that he could likely protect anyone), why wouldn't he protect a scum on Night 1? Your reasoning for not protecting his own faction is most useful when forced to claim, which he never had to do.

Sorry I didn't pick up on that button, I've been reading but that part skipped my mind.

[ChiboSempai]

How is there not a nonscum killing role, there were 3 Night 1 kills.

[ChiboSempai]

My current vote is on EvilGorrilaz for suspecting he is mafia for this reason I posted previously:

"Reading through everything again and thinking about it more, I don't like EG's play atm. I see that he hasn't posted in quite a while, and one of his last posts was wondering if we should 100% focus on just an SK and forget about the mafia thinking there weren't anymore. That + coasting together gives a perfect scum read, he tries to convince us to not look for him + lies low anyway to keep safe."

This could be swayed if and when the game picks up, but in this current environment this is how it stands.

[ChiboSempai]

We have 5 ppl though, the last 3 + me + Jase

as for Jase, you're new to the game and there was already suspicion cast on me for being the SK and it was the topic of discussion, it was natural for you to join in on that and provide your input. EG on the other hand is trying to make it seem like there isn't another scum person at all, so not only is he just focusing on getting us to look for an SK, he's trying to make us stop looking for scum.