Mini 885 - Boom, Game Gutshot/Abandoned by Mod!

[xvart]

also. You're the first to mention a 3 man scumteam. Why did you? What do you think is more probable?

I did? Can you remind me where? I don't recall speaking about scum teams, but if I did it is probably because I just finished a 12 person game with 3 scum.

I think I just found the reference when I made my last post. When I said if TheButtonmen, A_Squirrel, and 5cvm were scum I would crap my pants I didn't even think about it making a statement about a three man team. I guess it was just because the 12 person game I just finished had three people and 5cvm with his antics and the thing about A_Squirrel, it was more of a joke than anything.

xvart.

[Evilgorrilaz]

Oh, is the standard how nice our posts are, and not whether or not they address anything in the game at all? In that case I'm going to stop posting content and just post a picture of a kitten once a day. Town, please ignore my entire lack of participation and let me live for the entire game unmolested, because hey, there's NO WAY scum would try to get away with that sort of thing, right?

the more I read 5cvm, the more sense his posts seem to make (unless he is setting up an elaborate gambit, to which I guess I have fallen for?).

What if 5cvm was modkilled and flipped town? Who would you vote then? What if he flipped jester?

Initially I thought that 5cvm was doing his antic just because we was goofing off and such, but the more I read his posts I guess the better I get them. I don't think 5cvm is going to be modkilled.
1) He is scum and actually outed his scum team
2) He is scum but stated different people to protect his team/confuse the town
3) He is town so the people he calls scum with him (and the SK) are actually the people he finds scummy.
If he is town whatever. But if he is scum, there is so much WIFOM there we don't know what to make of it.
The only way I see him being modkilled is if he is scum and then quotes his role pm.

Right now I am reconsidering who to vote for. And if he flipped Jester/has posting restriction (like has to refer to himself as scum), I hate the mod.

[xvart]

the more I read 5cvm, the more sense his posts seem to make (unless he is setting up an elaborate gambit, to which I guess I have fallen for?).

Care to tell us what sense you've made of it?

Initially I thought that 5cvm was doing his antic just because we was goofing off and such, but the more I read his posts I guess the better I get them.

Again, what have you learned now from his posts?

I don't think 5cvm is going to be modkilled.

Well no duh. If he was going to be modkilled don't you think he would've been modkilled in one of the last ten posts by Boxman? Way to go out on a limb there.

xvart.

[Aranfan]

Evilgorrilaz, please, elucidate for us, because the only sense 5cvm makes to me is if he's a jester.

[Evilgorrilaz]

the more I read 5cvm, the more sense his posts seem to make (unless he is setting up an elaborate gambit, to which I guess I have fallen for?).

Care to tell us what sense you've made of it?

Initially I thought that 5cvm was doing his antic just because we was goofing off and such, but the more I read his posts I guess the better I get them.

Again, what have you learned now from his posts?

I don't think 5cvm is going to be modkilled.

Well no duh. If he was going to be modkilled don't you think he would've been modkilled in one of the last ten posts by Boxman? Way to go out on a limb there.

xvart.

I'd rather not assume he will get modkilled. Duh.

I could explain what I think his posts mean, but then again I could be completely wrong because I'm not him.

I think hes just reacting to people reacting to his playstyle, which is why he finds some people (like hito) scummy.

Then again I'm not him, and you would probably be better off asking him what he means.

[Seregil]

Why are we not voting 5cvm. To everyone not voting 5cvm: What are you waiting for, exactly?

Because I don't think he is scum at the moment.

[Seregil]

@Seregil.

Can you look back at my first post and answer my question?

Yes - below.

I don't either. Perhaps instead of looking at Chibo and Confid I should be looking at Chibo and hito?

why? Do you plan to follow up on Chibo? Don't you have any other questions for him?

1. The point about looking at hito too was because he posted this:

Confid's got a good point and you're avoiding it. You said you thought out of Chibo/Confid you found chibo more suspicious, but why the dichotomy? Why is it only between those two players?

I found Confid's logic on this point bizarre and then someone else jumps in to agree with it. Therefore I began to wonder about hito.

2. I already did follow up on Chibo by voting him.

3. I don't think I have any other questions for him now.

Also there is no deadline so I don't feel any pressure to vote.

Dont you think votes are useful? They serve the purpose of pressure and they clearly define who you're accusing.

Yes, but I already have a vote cast and didn't feel I needed to change it at the time.

@Seregil

, are you saying that 2 people that are fighting on day 1 are scum together? Why cant they be town against scum? Why can't it be town against town?

They could be any of the options you present. I decided to explore one of them.

***********

The person I am now most suspicious of is hito. I said above that I didn't like him joining in on Confid's "dichotomy" theory. I also don't like that he is pushing to lynch 5cvm. At the moment I feel 5cvm is not likely scum.

If

that is true then at least he has made it so that there is a smaller group of people who could be scum. Granted, it would be nice if he added more.

Unvote

Vote: Hito

[A_Squirrel]

I found Confid's logic on this point bizarre and then someone else jumps in to agree with it. Therefore I began to wonder about hito.

Again, why'd you drop Confid?

@Hitorogoshi, also again:

What happened to your ultimatum to Seregil? Are you satisfied with his response?

[hitogoroshi]

@Hitorogoshi, also again:

What happened to your ultimatum to Seregil? Are you satisfied with his response?

[Seregil]

I found Confid's logic on this point bizarre and then someone else jumps in to agree with it. Therefore I began to wonder about hito.

Again, why'd you drop Confid?

Because Confid is my second most suspicious now after hito. hito's push on 5cvm is the thing that I don't like most of all.

[xvart]

I'd rather not assume he will get modkilled. Duh.

My point that seem to be missing is if he was going to be modkilled, he would have on the first day when he said I'm scum with such and such people. Talking about 5cvm getting modkilled helps nothing, but whatever.

I could explain what I think his posts mean, but then again I could be completely wrong because I'm not him.

Then again I'm not him, and you would probably be better off asking him what he means.

And I'm asking you, not him, what you think his posts mean. You said they were making sense, and I want to hear what you see in his posts. Please, enlighten me.

xvart.

[Evilgorrilaz]

I'd rather not assume he will get modkilled. Duh.

My point that seem to be missing is if he was going to be modkilled, he would have on the first day when he said I'm scum with such and such people. Talking about 5cvm getting modkilled helps nothing, but whatever.

I could explain what I think his posts mean, but then again I could be completely wrong because I'm not him.

Then again I'm not him, and you would probably be better off asking him what he means.

And I'm asking you, not him, what you think his posts mean. You said they were making sense, and I want to hear what you see in his posts. Please, enlighten me.

xvart.

Point 1) I was answering someone when they asked what I think about 5cvm getting modkilled.
Point 2) I think hes just reacting to people reacting to his playstyle, which is why he finds some people (like hito) scummy.

[Boxman]

Prodding ChiboSempai.

[ChiboSempai]

Sorry about that, I was unexpecredly unavailable the past 2 days and forgot to post about it.

Either way... quoting stuff now

[ChiboSempai]

Humble, the thing is that 5cvm has made it abundantly clear he never intends to offer content. I don't want to keep a player like that until the endgame; he will be an active detriment to town. And the time to do a lynch like that is now, because we'll have more content D2 to work off of to pick our lynch (a nk and more posts, as well as knowledge of 5cvm's flip.) Do you really intend to leave him around the entire game? Do you really want to say, "Congratulations, 5cvm, you are such a terrible player we're going to let you live despite the fact you will never be a productive member of this game!"

As such, I'm keen to string up him so we can move on to more concrete matters. There is a such thing as 'too much content' and 'too long of a day', and the fact is D1 is one prone to mislynches because there is a lot of speculation and not much real information. It's a perfect day to policy lynch, because we don't NEED to know about everyone else: we know 5cvm is going to play anti-town, so we can murder him alignment be damned. It really is that simple.

How is he detrimental to the game? Just ignore his posts. How will his flip give us info? I can't see one possible way some crazy person like this would give us an informative flip. Lets say what if he does flip scum, what would be your next move? He's practically pointed the finger at all of us, its not like we can say, oh crap that means he does know who scum is and we can target one of them, cause hes targeted like 11 ppl lolz.

It is seeming like your using his annoyance to push for a lynch on someone that rly shouldnt be lynched right now.

[ChiboSempai]

@ChiboSempai

. I know where you come from now. But still, you should only take into account MS games. Other websites lack the theory to make really balanced setups. MS is generally more balanced because it has more documentation and history.

Website experience doesn't mean anything. Most of the ppl I play with on SWF also have accounts here as well and seem to know a lot more about the game than half of the ppl I run into on this site. This is kinda awkward to see coming from someone who only has 1.5 games of exp (not saying that I don't have a lot but still...)

[ChiboSempai]

@ Evilgorrilaz

, I of the opinion ending D1 with a policy lynch right now seems to be giving Mafia a free turn. We don;t know enough that I feel like we should bring day 1 to a close but we do know enough I think we can make a choice based on something other then annoyance

Think about it this way.
1) We lynch scum. (Yay)
2) We lynch vanilla townie, which is what probably gets lynched anyways (and it lets power roles have a free night as well).
3) We lynch a power role.
For options 2 and 3, I would much rather lynch one of those that is being anti-town than being pro-town.

And its not based on annoyance. Its based on genuine anti-town play. Its like actively lurking.

So according to you, we are almost certain to lynch a townie today (you say likely vanilla townie but also leave the possibility of power townie open together completely dwarfing the chance of getting scum. So let me ask you, why wouldn't you vote no lynch since your practically asking someone from the town to be killed.

[ChiboSempai]

I really don't want to drop my suspicion on Aranfan. I'm going to remember it regardless because up until now it was the only thing so far that kind of hit my radar.

I'm not particularly liking EvilGorillaz posts, but not enough yet to make me wanna lynch him or think hes scum

imo its time to focus on hitogoroshi

Unvote Vote hitogoroshi

[hitogoroshi]

Why are we not voting 5cvm. To everyone not voting 5cvm: What are you waiting for, exactly?

Because I don't think he is scum at the moment.

Read 215 again. Doesn't matter if he's scum or not. He's not going to post content, so he has to die. No argument, no exceptions. This is a play style anybody, scum or town, could do without ever revealing anything, so if someone does it you murder them.

Now that (I hope) the point of the cat posts has been made let me address this point:

@Hitogoroshi

:
Was post Seregil's response satisfactory? You gave him an ultimatum and then ignored him.

More or less. I don't honestly think he was creating a dichotomy, but when he denied that it was scummy rather than denying he had done so it set me off. Dichotomies are scummy and I wanted to make sure that point got through.

How is he detrimental to the game? Just ignore his posts. How will his flip give us info? I can't see one possible way some crazy person like this would give us an informative flip. Lets say what if he does flip scum, what would be your next move? He's practically pointed the finger at all of us, its not like we can say, oh crap that means he does know who scum is and we can target one of them, cause hes targeted like 11 ppl lolz.

It is seeming like your using his annoyance to push for a lynch on someone that rly shouldnt be lynched right now.

Firstly, please use all the letters in words like 'really' and 'people', and not just most of them. That may be okay in #scumchat but you can take the time on a forum to write something without that sort of thing.

And secondly, this is completely wrong. 'How is he detrimental? Just ignore his posts'. Think about this for two seconds. Are you saying that if someone ISN'T interacting with others, we leave them alone? Because scum could just make sure to never post anything useful and, by this twisted, backwards logic, never be lynched - which is EXACTLY what you are proposing with 5cvm. That's just asinine.

So let me ask you, why wouldn't you vote no lynch since your practically asking someone from the town to be killed.

Lets work out the numbers for this one. Assuming we always mislynch if we lynch and there is always a nk:

• CASE 1. 2 scum, no lynch d1. 11/12. 9/12. 7/12. 5/12, LYLO on d5.
  
  
• CASE 2. 2 scum, misylnch d1. 10/12. 8/12. 6/12, LYLO d4 (or maybe d5, but I think under Boxman's majority lynch rules if the scum quick-paired on someone they'd win.)
  
  
• CASE 3. 3 scum, no lynch d1. 11/12. 9/12. 7/12, LYLO on d4.
  
  
• CASE 4. 3 scum, mislynch d1. 10/12, 8/12, LYLO d3 (again, could be d4 depending on the specifics of the majority lynch rules.)

So with 2 scum we get four mislynches either way. We only get two (!) mislynches either way with three scum. No-lynch is an option but I'd prefer to have that one sitting in our pockets in case we don't get our act together before a deadline on a later day.

I can't believe I have to re-make this point, but the fact that it's passed most of you by worries me. 5cvm is being completely anti-town. I don't care what you think about what he 'really' is. Either defend his actions as helpful to the town, or lynch him. Suggesting that we ignore him the whole game is completely out of the question.

[5cvm]

What a snot you are hitorogoshi! I recomend some sort of open-mind-inducing meditation or something. Not sure if such a thing exists... 0.o

Do I need to remind you that lynching me is

not

in your interests as scum?

Oh I forgot you are going the crazy route of pretending you're town. What a lot of work that must be.

CASE 1. 2 scum, no lynch d1. 11/12. 9/12. 7/12. 5/12, LYLO on d5.


CASE 2. 2 scum, misylnch d1. 10/12. 8/12. 6/12, LYLO d4 (or maybe d5, but I think under Boxman's majority lynch rules if the scum quick-paired on someone they'd win.)


CASE 3. 3 scum, no lynch d1. 11/12. 9/12. 7/12, LYLO on d4.


CASE 4. 3 scum, mislynch d1. 10/12, 8/12, LYLO d3 (again, could be d4 depending on the specifics of the majority lynch rules.)

From personal experience, I can tell you that this is the part where people vote you for "trying to use numbers to your benefit." Personally, I think that argument is stupid though.

A neutral lynch of hit is OK but I would recomend a scum lynch on TheButtonmen or xvart.

[Evilgorrilaz]

@ Evilgorrilaz

, I of the opinion ending D1 with a policy lynch right now seems to be giving Mafia a free turn. We don;t know enough that I feel like we should bring day 1 to a close but we do know enough I think we can make a choice based on something other then annoyance

Think about it this way.
1) We lynch scum. (Yay)
2) We lynch vanilla townie, which is what probably gets lynched anyways (and it lets power roles have a free night as well).
3) We lynch a power role.
For options 2 and 3, I would much rather lynch one of those that is being anti-town than being pro-town.

And its not based on annoyance. Its based on genuine anti-town play. Its like actively lurking.

So according to you, we are almost certain to lynch a townie today (you say likely vanilla townie but also leave the possibility of power townie open together completely dwarfing the chance of getting scum. So let me ask you, why wouldn't you vote no lynch since your practically asking someone from the town to be killed.

I really don't want to get into this much more, but whatever.

What the hell do we get from no lynch? No lynch means less information than lynching someone. The way townies find REAL scum is finding connections between scum. First day, all we have to go on is speculation. Only on subsequent days do we get the information on who votes with who with absolute facts (people who are nked, people who are lynched). Lynching a townie is almost always better than no lynch.

Can you say, in the majority of your games, that it is usually scum lynched on day 1? Because I cant.

[ConfidAnon]

Will post more tomorrow (sick, got homework, don't have time).

[Aranfan]

Gorrilla is hitting my scumdar for saying that he can make sense of what 5cvm posts but refusing to share this insight with anyone else.

[Aranfan]

EBWOP:

FOS: Evilgorrilaz

[TheButtonmen]

Gorrilla is hitting my scumdar for saying that he can make sense of what 5cvm posts but refusing to share this insight with anyone else.

Exageration without supporting quote much?

You voted for 5cvm (a safe vote, a lot of people were in on that) and a policy lynch on someone who didn't even post. Yet you won't vote those you find suspicious.....