890: Cults of Darkness and Shadow - Game over!

[DeathSauce]

/confirm

[DeathSauce]

I'm also against people just voting without saying anything else, I don't care what your secret plan is Fara, it still looks scummy. Anybody, scum or town, will ask you the same question "why did you vote for me" it reveals nothing, but makes us harder to hold you to account.

Tells can be given off in response to pressure. When someone votes for someone without a reason the accused may wonder why, they may panic or may continue to act in a scummy way. The fact you believe all unexplained votes to be scummy is a tad naive, and there very very useful as far as I'm concerned. I'm not however interested in arguing mafia theory, but suffice to say I'll use my vote as I feel is best.

So you are still claiming that your vote within an hour of the game going live was not a mistaken random vote, but actually had a reason? I'm not buying this. It was a random vote and there is no way you could have expected it to elicit a reaction with meaning. If you think it did, explain it to us, otherwise admit it was a random vote.

[DeathSauce]

Yes it had a reason.
I don't care if you buy it or not.
How the fuck could you possibly know what I was expecting? You a mind reader.
Obviously it didn't, but that didn't mean it couldn't have elicited a reaction.

Seems I certainly got a reaction from you, and I didn't even have to incant you!

Please state why I would pretend a random vote was not random.
Then since you're questioning me on it tell me why it's scummy.

Uhh, your first question is exactly what I am asking you. I'll answer your second question when you answer mine

[DeathSauce]

Thanks for making this easy.

Incant Faraday

You've been trying to weasel around that initial vote since you made it, responding to questions about it with name-calling and cursing doesn't help.

[DeathSauce]

to elaborate on you needing to l2read, I answered the question already by saying it wasn't a random vote.

Yeah, I know you said that. I asked you how in the fuck you could claim that a vote in a game that was LESS THAN AN HOUR OLD could be anything but random, dipshit.

(cursing and name-calling added in an attempt to converse at your level)

[DeathSauce]

Ok, Faraday, I owe you an apology. I apparently do need to learn to read because I was looking at DisCode's first post in ISO when I thought I was looking at yours. That's what I get for having 4 tabs open in the same game.

[DeathSauce]

Death, your opinion of Seacore and Chaco, please.

No. Maybe later.

[/quote]And answer Faraday's question for once as you're trying really hard to evade it.[/quote] No. Maybe later. I'm not evading a damned thing, I have my reasons.[/quote]

[DeathSauce]

Incant: mipe

Mipe is scum. Weird question to the mod about size of Cults, wishy-washy pushes, and what the hell is with incanting the mod?

[DeathSauce]

Death, why don't you want to state your opinions of Chaco and Seacore?
Also, what about my first post in ISO?

Why should I answer any particular question about those specific players? Make your own case, you don't need my help.

And there is nothing about your first post, had it confused w/ Faraday, as I said earlier.

[DeathSauce]

OK, I will say a little about Seacore. I think Serial's criticism of Seacore's posting as being about the game structure instead of scumhunting is off-base. I personally gained insight on the game from Seacore's posts and I think they were early enough that serious scumhunting had yet to begin.

Gut read on Seacore is town-ish.

Not seeing the pressure on Chaco, we've wasted enough words on buddying, I'm not adding to them.

[DeathSauce]

* Deathsauce needs to answer my question as to why I'd pass a random vote off as serious.

There's really nothing here, it was when I thought you had made the first post of the game (obviously random) and were defending it as non-random, just a general Lynch All Liars thing I was looking for. Since I had the posts mixed up, there is nothing to it and I do not consider you a liar.

[DeathSauce]

Although I said earlier that I wouldn't comment on buddying, I've waited long enough to hear a reaction from anyone else on this, so I'll bring it up.

If Seacore is being accused of being scummy because of "buddying" with Chaco, why hasn't Serial been held to the fire because of his ISO post 6 to semi:

Then we agree on essentially everything. Good man.

Any reason you didn't mention the whole vote the mod thing?

This is why I like playing with Serial, he can make one tiny post and blow up a whole line of thinking (oh no, am I buddying?!?)

[DeathSauce]

But either way, AFAIK Deathsauce is attacking other people for having double standards by attacking you and not me, rather than actually attacking me for buddying.

No, I am pointing out the hypocrisy of those (such as mipe, for one) that have specifically stated they are voting Seacore for "buddying", but have not brought up any of the other examples of buddying that might be found if they were to actually read the thread.

[DeathSauce]

EBWOP: oops, that's is pretty much what you said.

[DeathSauce]

mipe, if that is your role, why wouldn't you come out with your first post and say "I'm immune to night kills and a Dreamwalker. Let's no lynch and I will report my night findings every morning."?

Seems like an easy town win.

Since you didn't do that, I disbelieve your claim.

Also, as you have said, your role is meaningless from an alignment standpoint

[DeathSauce]

I agree with everything semi just said.

[DeathSauce]

@All: If you would have a second vote, who would you be voting now?

Snow_bunny

[DeathSauce]

@All: If you would have a second vote, who would you be voting now?

Snow_bunny

Reasons?

Because you are scum, probably teamed with start and possibly DisCode.

[DeathSauce]

Deathsauce - when somebody asks you for reasons, you don't just restate that you think they are scummy. You provide why, you know "reasons".
Because you are scum
Because you act scummy
Because the things you do are scummy

these are not reasons.

Thanks for the tip, but I play the game my way.

What I find more interesting is that you didn't comment at all about the second half of that sentence.

[DeathSauce]

Ah sorry, I missed the "start" in your post as well.
Yeah, I really don't think she's with start, given she took a loud stance against him, and if they were on the same team, they'd either both be for the data lynch or both against it.

Yes, she took a loud stance that could also be seen as daytime coaching, and has labeled him "Neutral" in two different analyses. I like to look at players that other players consistently claim as being "neutral' or 'unreadable'.

[DeathSauce]

Once again, semioldguy has distilled my thoughts.

Policy lynches are not only bad, they are scummy. It gives scum an easy out to say "Oh so-and-so is not contributing, let's lynch them."

Prodding/Replacement is by far the preferred option.

Incant:Snow_Bunny

If you still want a double lynch, I'll go for Mipe and SB.

[DeathSauce]

1) I'm trying to establish whether you are willing to go with what the majority have said (which is pro-town, even if you disagree with it).

False assumption. There are only 12 players in this game, and it is entirely possible that the combined scum cults are the majority. Going along with the majority could in fact be pro-scum

[DeathSauce]

Magua's recent post makes my scumdar sizzle

Incant:mipe

If mipe flips scum then Magua is one of his partners

[DeathSauce]

Thanks, it was worth it, especially the brilliant part where we force the possible lynchees to vote for each other.

Why not force them to vote for themselves while we are at it? In fact, I hereby force you to vote for yourself tomorrow.

Let's see if that flies...

[DeathSauce]

Your intentional missing the reason for unvoting mipe when he was at L-1 -- and then you placing him at L-1 with your vote -- have been noted..

Is he at L-1? I thought I hammered him

[DeathSauce]

Sorry, I am still not buying this. You guys have been so gung-ho on the double lynch thing that no one is going to believe that they can survive by voting for whoever YOU tell them to.

I, for one, would never go along with it. I'd let you lynch me rather than forcing me to participate in the possible lynching of another townie.

Double lynches are bad except for confirmed scum. How many times do you need to hear that?

[DeathSauce]

Did a reread during the night and I take back what I said about Magua being mipe's partner. Still think Snow_bunny is scummish.

[DeathSauce]

Snow_Bunny's scumminess is based on pushing a policy lynch while trying to refrain from calling it that, also, and the early player analysis (something I often see from scum).

A point in her favor is the catch of mipe's statement about "5 non-holy players". That was interesting and deserves further analysis.

Serial, my switch on Magua was due to re-reading all his posts instead of just the one where he unvoted mipe, got more of a town read after doing that.

[DeathSauce]

The entire conversation about "selective scumhunting" and "going after the weakened group" to be completely mind-boggling. How in the hell am I supposed to tell if a scummy player is in the cult of Darkness or cult of Shadow? Do we get them to admit it somehow?

That said,

Incant: startransmission

I'm still seeing a connection between start and SB, start's alignment would be enlightening.

[DeathSauce]

This argument tires me.

Serial - explain how we can differentiate between the two scum groups.

[DeathSauce]

I gotta say that Snow Bunny is starting to make sense to me. Couple with Serial's apparent slip about targeting specific scum groups, I am growing more convinced.

Also, Chaco's sudden defense of Serial is noted.

Incant: SerialClergyman

[DeathSauce]

In fact, fuck it, I'm still happy with my vote because he still was on the Seacore wagon and off the mipe wagon.

Irony here, because Serial himself was heavy on the Seacore wagon and extremely wishy-washy on the mipe wagon, in fact tried to derail it twice by my count. Once it was clear mipe was not save-able, SC bussed him.

[DeathSauce]

This is a better reason than the supposed slip, in all honesty. Not that I care *atm* as long as it looks like snow is trying to scum-hunt.

Not to start another huge in-game argument, but it seems to me that scum hunting in this game is not a reliable town tell, since we have competing scum factions that are trying to wipe each other out.

[DeathSauce]

I'm surprised Serial isn't dead yet. Read his iso and watch his attempts to save mipe, it becomes ridiculously clear.

And he still hasn't answered my question about how we are supposed to know ahead of time which cult we are lynching.

[DeathSauce]

Nothing, but I'm not saying snowbunny is town. After reading back through on iso I found her posts to be... not scummy.

Doesn't surprise me in the least to hear you say that.

Mind sharing why you felt that way?

[DeathSauce]

In case I haven't made myself clear, my belief is that Serial and mipe are/were cultists, and Snow and start are also cultists. I would be perfectly happy to vote any one of them.

Serial is cult because of

1) Attempting to derail mipe's wagon
2) Bringing up selective scumhunting (look it up, it's a tell)
3) Repeated failure to answer questions about

how

we could selectively scum hunt. (If there was a slip, this was it).

The Snow/start thing I admit is tenuous, mostly gut and the lack of conviction they display toward each other.

[DeathSauce]

I'm here, sorry, Christmas was busier than expected.

[DeathSauce]

OK, I'm in the obvious minority here, but I don't believe the claim.

It was made for basically no reason, he instantly gets all "let's double lynch" as soon as a few people begin believing the claim, there are too many other possible scenarios as to why there was only on N1 kill. I'm saying the claim was BS.

More Serial votes please. Or Start, I'm OK with that too.

[DeathSauce]

However, the problem is that his claim doesn't really tells us anything. Semi got protected. Whoopdedoop...

Exactly my point, it is a meaningless claim at a stupid time to make it. Additionally, why would you out yourself to say "I didn't find out anything?"

[DeathSauce]

What would a false claim like this at this point in the game accomplish?

Well for one thing, if it were completely believed, it would put you in an excellent position to steer the game for at least two days.

[DeathSauce]

Heilograph has made no defense. Hasn't done much of anything. There's a lot of evidence that he is mipe's partner.

Could you give us a recap of said evidence?

[DeathSauce]

Start is still possibly a liar and I am not at all comfortable with any assumptions about the size of the scum teams.

Earlier in the game I said:

Also, Chaco's sudden defense of Serial is noted.

Take a look back, it happened more than once.

Incant:Chaco[/b}

[DeathSauce]

Bah,

Incant:Chaco

[DeathSauce]

...and I am not at all comfortable with any assumptions about the size of the scum teams.

Why's that? You're thinking one side has 3? Which means for it to be a scum team meaning the other has 2. So 5 people in this game are scum? Leaving only 7 players to town. That doesn't seem right at all, and there's no way there's a one man scum team as all that would be is an SK, which is not in this game.

FoS: Deathsauce

You're suspicious of me for not trying to outguess the mod? Not seeing any reason to defend myself against that.

It would be perhaps more enlightening if you were to explain why you defended Serial, but since you chose not to do so, I'm really comfortable with my vote.

[DeathSauce]

That's based all off of assumption Snow. You're ruling out that a town protective role exists in that line of thinking.

That's based all off of assumption Snow. You're ruling out that a town protective role exists in that line of thinking.

I'm not ruling out anything. I'm saying that as a town I have no way of knowing there's a town PR. But he does.

This is a semi open set up, I'm pretty sure you know there are Town PRs. That was a dumb comment.

These are from when Snow_Bunny discovered one of SC's slips. You immediately went to his defense. I'm not saying it was a great defense, but it was there.

For those of you who are convinced that Darkness cult is finished, you may want to reflect on this little nugget from dead scum Serial:

If Darkness protected their own then they have 3 members and a power role.

I think it's pretty obvious that Darkness DID protect one of their own (Serial basically admits to protecting a goon in an earlier post), therefore I think we can take from this that Darkness cult had three members and a power role.

Chaco is the last member of Darkness, let's lynch him.

[DeathSauce]

That's not a defense, that was questioning Snow Bunny's logic, which you are trying to twist into a defense. When it is not.

Also, that by no means means that there is 3 members.

It was a defense, if it wasn't, why didn't you say anything earlier when I said you were defending him?

Sorry, it looks pretty clear to me that there are/were three members in Darkness.

More Chaco votes, please

[DeathSauce]

If that person was blocked by a scum mate, then

Darkness must have had 3 people on their team plus a power role

...

The only way that makes sense is if I am a Darkness Guardian who protected SOMEONE OTHER THAN MY SCUM GROUP last night, or if I'm a Darkness Guardian and have a scum goon who I protected successfully last night.

Sounds to me like he protected a scum goon.

If Darkness protected their own then

they have 3 members and a power role...

You would have to be obtuse not to conclude that Darkness has 3 members and a power role.

In addition, there is the little exchange between you and Serial that resulted in the lynch of townie semioldguy:

Wow, uhm, that breadcrumb is different. Since town guardian is claimed, and Dreamwalker, both making accusations that SOG is scum. You can't argue that really, so

Re-Incant: Dramonic

, might as well confirm their claims.

Blah that post put Dramonic on the mind.

EBWOP:

Re-incant: Semioldguy

...

Are you not paying attention or just made a mistake?

You should be incanting SOG, not dramonic.

lol good man.

You instantly believed SC's fakeclaim and followed your fellow scum's lead to get a townie lynch

[DeathSauce]

You are basing this assumption off of a "what if"...

No, I am basing this off of repeated specific wording from a confirmed member of Darkness Cult.

[DeathSauce]

Vote Chaco, he's scum

[DeathSauce]

I'd go for mass prods, this game is creeping

[DeathSauce]

Jesus, are my frackin' posts invisible?

Start may be scum (I'd bet on it) but Chaco is SC and mipe's scumbuddy.

For the setup whiners, one thing to consider is this is a game of cults. What if they are able to recruit?

[DeathSauce]

Oh, hey, didn't see that that post up there by you start.

So why did you investigate me?

[DeathSauce]

Man...seriously? There are no Elder Dreamwalkers. There are no Double Voters. There are no Nk immune miller vig's. There are no cult mechanics. Repeat it untill everyone realises it

Fine, if you say so.

I honestly don't think Chaco CAN be Sc/Mipe's scumbuddy. I don't think the game can be possible balanced if he is.

Then please explain why SC said repeatedly that Darkness had three members plus a power role

[DeathSauce]

Come on guys, I bet you can feel it too. Star is scum. Let's lynch him.

Little jumpy are we?
I'm kinda thinking that snows idea makes some sense and I'm willing to give it a try. I don't really think Chaco is scum maybe deathsauce is a chacos partner in crime, but don't hold it to me.
I am completly unsure about dram, farday is confusing me, so I'll pick the only one left

vote: startransmission

1)What is "jumpy" about Snow's post?

2) Why don't you think Chaco is scum?

3) What indications do you have to propose that I am scum with Chaco?

4) What is confusing about Faraday?

That post is pure active lurking, offers no useful information, attempts to vaguely paint three players with a scumbrush, is packed full of words like "kinda" and "don't hold me to it" and "unsure", and then votes for a claimed cop.

In summary, Heliograph is scum.

Incant:Heliograph[/

[DeathSauce]

Come on guys, I bet you can feel it too. Star is scum. Let's lynch him.

Little jumpy are we?
I'm kinda thinking that snows idea makes some sense and I'm willing to give it a try. I don't really think Chaco is scum maybe deathsauce is a chacos partner in crime, but don't hold it to me.
I am completly unsure about dram, farday is confusing me, so I'll pick the only one left

vote: startransmission

1)What is "jumpy" about Snow's post?

2) Why don't you think Chaco is scum?

3) What indications do you have to propose that I am scum with Chaco?

4) What is confusing about Faraday?

That post is pure active lurking, offers no useful information, attempts to vaguely paint three players with a scumbrush, is packed full of words like "kinda" and "don't hold me to it" and "unsure", and then votes for a claimed cop.

In summary, Heliograph is scum.

Incant:Heliograph

[DeathSauce]

That's enough to lynch at 6pm tomorrow. Anyone have the guts to hammer before then?

[DeathSauce]

Dang, I knew Chaco was scum, but had him in the wrong faction. Which I guess actually means I was wrong. I would have been so hard after you Chaco, if only Helio hadn't posted that distracting piece of scumminess!

[DeathSauce]

^^^^ Agreed. Awesome set-up. Great modding, thanks for the game!