Flash Mafia: You won!

[Snow_Bunny]

/confirm.

[Snow_Bunny]

After a quick read, Ray is top scummy. Mostly same reasons Crypto said (questions trying to look pro-town, vote on SW, bad vibe in general).

I don't think Mufasa is scum right now, though, I'm not getting a town feeling from him.

Neutral on Mike.

[Snow_Bunny]

@Tajo: Well, he's currently in neutral. Though, there's also the possibility of third party with its own selfish interests.

[Snow_Bunny]

Same to me. My vote would have put you in L-3 or L-2 (don't remember), and I don't want such wagon so early on. But

I have my eyes on you.

[Snow_Bunny]

Lame reasons for my wagon are lame. Because I didn't vote and that thing I didn't get about mufasa? Pfft.

I say that I'm not getting either a town or scum feeling from mufasa. Is that that hard to understand? It means I'm getting a neutral reading. Which means that I could lean towards third party. Hard?

@Rolf: reasons for your vote?
@Crypto: What's so scummy about my iso 1 - 2?

[Snow_Bunny]

@SW: Hai! Now, let me answer the thing about Mufasa. I had him in Neutral (had as he's no longer here), but that could lead to the possibility of third party (something to check up in the following days). Neutral, not scum, not town vibe, neutral. Possibility of third party. Possibility, just that. A possibility that could increase depending the outcomes of N1. But for now, just the thought noted down.

[Snow_Bunny]

@AGOTI: Why is RF obvtown?

@SW: Right now, RF is scummy in my eyes. Rofl is there also. Mike is moving up to townie. SW is also moving up to townie. Spyrex is neutral, though I'm getting good vibes from him, that last comment about vigging even if it ended the day didn't sound good to me.

[Snow_Bunny]

I don't think the Bunny wagon is lame.

Reasons?

I say that I'm not getting either a town or scum feeling from mufasa. Is that that hard to understand? It means I'm getting a neutral reading. Which means that I could lean towards third party. Hard?

No, this does not make sense. Third party, SK, is a type of scum. So a person should be reading scummy to you in order for you to start contemplating what type of scum. Neutral is not a deisgnation for scum.

Nope. Third party reads different from scum (albeit not always). Also, neutral =/= scum. Neutral means that I'm yet to get a town/scum read on the person. But that as well open the possibility of third party.

RF is scum. His playstyle has been scummy at best, and his last posts and his defence against GC's post just don't make it. I'd hammer, but I still think is too early to end the day.

[Snow_Bunny]

@AGOTI: Answer my question. Now.

[Snow_Bunny]

@Tajo: Well, he's currently in neutral. Though, there's also the possibility of third party with its own selfish interests.

what makes you think he could be third party?

That there are plenty third party roles in the flash thingy?

@Tajo: What's you don't like about me?

I am not liking AGOTI at all. Not stating reasons at all, vote-jumping, and overall bad posts don't help her. I'd be happy to lynch her over Ray.

vote: AGOTI

Btw, is funny how suddenly all pressure on Ray disappeared.

[Snow_Bunny]

Because I liked the Ray wagon?

[Snow_Bunny]

Double posting.

Why did you want to lynch Ray after his vanilla townie claim?

Here's a valid reason: Because a vanilla townie claim isn't a get-out-of-a-lynch-for-free card. Mafia have been known to claim everything - up to and including vanilla townie. Your caveat of asking why someone would want to lynch Ray after the vanilla claim artificially inflates that claim as a cause to ignore the whole slew of issues found with Ray's play. No claim in the world is an excuse as to Ray's initial suspicious behavior. Even more staggering is the notion that somehow you're suggesting that his claim excuses his reaction to his scummy behavior being pointed out: You know, his outright side-stepping of the points brought against him, his shifting of his positions in order to paint himself in a better light, his strawman tactics to avoid the real issues and - when you finally get some sort of answer out of him - his horrifically bad excuses.

Ray's play has been scummy through and through. I also think it's interesting that plenty of people have said that there has been a good case made against Ray, and in light of his refusal to answer the points made against him the town is rewarding his behavior by taking the pressure off of him.

^That.

In fact, you believing the claim such as it is, ignoring his previous behaviour doesn't look good. When Ray flips scum, I'll be looking for you.

[Snow_Bunny]

Why did you like the Ray wagon?

After a quick read, Ray is top scummy. Mostly same reasons Crypto said (questions trying to look pro-town, vote on SW, bad vibe in general).

RF is scum. His playstyle has been scummy at best, and his last posts and his defence against GC's post just don't make it. I'd hammer, but I still think is too early to end the day.

I never voted for Ray, as by the time I'd vote I would either put him at L-2 (I think) at page 5 or so, or L-1/hammer.

Actually, no, I have a better idea: Read the thread.

If you actually read the thread, you would know why I like Ray's wagon and wouldn't need to ask.

Also, point out where I state that believe his claim.

Here:

Why did you want to lynch Ray after his vanilla townie claim?

The way the question is asked, it seems as if you believe his claim. Maybe your intentions were different, but sadly for you, I still can't read minds (and much less from far away), and I read it as it is written. For me, you are believing his claim and you are asking me why I want to lynch him after that. Simple, I don't believe his claim. His playstyle before the claim was scummy at best, and, as GC said, scum has been known to claim everything. A claim won't fix that.

"Why do you still want to lynch Ray?" that would have been fine. In fact, I would love for Bunny to answer that question, especially in light of her vote not being on Ray.

Well, nothing has changed from my read on him, but I'm finding AGOTI a better lynch for today. Not that I'd be disappointed if Ray ended up being it, btw.

It's a simple question, Snow_Bunny. You just posted in another game. Please take five seconds to answer said simple question in this game.

Quick fact about me: Just because I'm on the site, and I replied to another game means that I will reply to all my games. Sometimes I don't find anything good to add; other times I just don't have the time or motivation to reply; other times I'm just reading in my spare time.

[Snow_Bunny]

I never voted for Ray, as by the time I'd vote I would either put him at L-2 (I think) at page 5 or so, or L-1/hammer.

What does that have to do with whether or not you liked the wagon? Stop dodging the question.

After a quick read, Ray is top scummy. Mostly same reasons Crypto said (questions trying to look pro-town, vote on SW, bad vibe in general).

RF is scum. His playstyle has been scummy at best, and his last posts and his defence against GC's post just don't make it. I'd hammer, but I still think is too early to end the day.

My read on him hasn't changed.

Your simultaneous attachment to the AGOTI wagon and obsession with loss of pressure on RayFrost are scummy and contradictory. You didn't say that the Ray wagon was good but that AGOTI should be lynched instead. You just complained about the decline of the Ray wagon. There's a distinct difference between the two.

I fail to see a distinction. If I complain about not being chocolates in the store, it's because I want to buy chocolates.

If you actually read the thread, you would know why I like Ray's wagon and wouldn't need to ask.

I know, that's why it's such an easy question. I want you to tell me why Ray is scummy and why you like his wagon. I don't know if you've updated your opinions. Opinions usually get updated in Mafia.

After a quick read, Ray is top scummy. Mostly same reasons Crypto said (questions trying to look pro-town, vote on SW, bad vibe in general).

RF is scum. His playstyle has been scummy at best, and his last posts and his defence against GC's post just don't make it. I'd hammer, but I still think is too early to end the day.

Usually =/= always. My opinion on him remains. I find him scummy. And the claim doesn't help either. At least some others claims can be confirmed. VT can't.

The way the question is asked, it seems as if you believe his claim.

Not at all. I think I worded my question as plainly as possible. Stop piggybacking on Green Crayons (thanks for spoon-feeding her an escape route, GC!) and take it for what it is. There's no indication of whether or not I believe his claim. Some players' stances tend to change after a claim of any sort. Other players' stances don't. I wanted to know why you chose one over the other.

So, lucky me for GC answering before me. I thought you believed Ray's claim, whatever GC's say it first or not. My stance on Ray hasn't changed because he hasn't made anything to change it. Or do you think he has acted protown lately?

Sometimes I don't find anything good to add;

You were asked a question. Cross that excuse out.

other times I just don't have the time or motivation to reply;

It was a very simple question. I doubt you couldn't muster the motivation for a two- or three-line answer.

other times I'm just reading in my spare time.

You made a post in another game.

Whatever you like it or not, I will post WHEN I WANT. Not when you want. You don't know if I have enough time to post in all my games at once. You can't possibly know if I had some sort of Internet connection that prevented me from posting (this has happened me quite a lot of times, actually). You can't possibly know why I'm not posting, so stop bugging me over it! Go ahead and think I'm lurking if you want. That won't change the way I play. I rather not post in a game than make a weak post just for the sake of posting.

Why is AGOTI a better lynch than RayFrost?

Must I repeat everything?

I am not liking AGOTI at all. Not stating reasons at all, vote-jumping, and overall bad posts don't help her. I'd be happy to lynch her over Ray.

[Snow_Bunny]

So what do we think of the fact that as soon as we rallied a wagon on mbf he got really busy and will be unable to post until monday or something?

Need lynching:
mbf
Pom

Need vigging:
Ray
snowbunny

Need to stop lurking:
rofl
tajo
snow white

Why do I need to get vigged? I don't like PR directing, btw.

So, lucky me for GC answering before me. I thought you believed Ray's claim, whatever GC's say it first or not. My stance on Ray hasn't changed because he hasn't made anything to change it. Or do you think he has acted protown lately?

Psst, Snow_Bunny, would you like to admit your bullshit now or save it for after I kill you? Hint: If you do it now there will be no such kill.

So, are you going to kill me tonight, scum? Well, town, if I appear dead tomorrow you know who made the kill.

I think I may have figured out the scumteam. It's Ray Frost, and two of [Elvis Knits, Pomegranite, Porochaz]. Of the two, I'd say Porochaz has been the most town, so my initial assumption would be Ray-Elvis-Pom.

Why are you so sure there are three scums in the team?

[Snow_Bunny]

Your tunneling knows no end, I see. And how, suddenly, I'm pretty sure to be scum now?

[Snow_Bunny]

@crypto: I'll answer if you answer first.

[Snow_Bunny]

Scumlist:

Snow_Bunny
Mikeburnfire
Rayfrost
Roflcopter- LURKER BIGTIME!
A girl on the internet
Elvis_knits
Porochaz
Populartajo
Spyrex
Snow white
Crypto
Green Crayons

Unvote;, Vote: Snow_Bunny

.

I just love reasonless and contentless scumlists! Best way scum has to out themselves to town.

[Snow_Bunny]

Keep ignoring my question.

[Snow_Bunny]

Vote: Ray

You should have died D1. Your lynch should have never been delayed. :/

[Snow_Bunny]

crypto is mostly meta from you-know-where.

SB is just obv scum. seriously. I'm p. sure meta from the other you-know-where could come in, but I'm too lazy to check.

AGOTI is town cuz she's willing to listen and give me a chance

spyrex is town cuz his play yesterday doesn't seem like scum jumping on the easy mislynch (though now he is, so... I dunno )

prozac has been coasting, imo.

you are town for being helpful and careful

MBF is scummy cuz of mid to late D1. D2 hasn't changed a thing, though this is really something I'm hedging cuz I don't want to be fogged by OMGUS and I had a town read of him previously (early D1)

Massive fail. Please die, scum.

Yeah, I cant say I didnt see this coming. Ray's late day 1 really sucked hard and Im not surprised that behavior has prolonged today with the pressure. I have a strong feeling that some of his posts today are designed to wifomize, kamikaze style. Like, what was the point of posting a bunch of stupid reads on 502 when he is at L-1? Did anyone ask?

For the record, regardless of ray's flip, rolf and bunny are still scum. Rolf l-1ed without asking for a claim, is flip flopping/deflecting like crazy and bunny contributed to the wagon and disappeared shortly after. Also, Im pretty sure there is at least one busser in the quick wagon, so check this list also when the game has less people:

poro, flashy, bunny, white, elvis, spyrex, (crypto)

Im hammering in the next hour or so, so any final words are welcome.

Why am I scum again?

Seems like crypto wants his scum partner to get out of the lynch just like yesterday by wasting time and waiting for suspicious to rise somewhere else.

[Snow_Bunny]

Seems like crypto wants his scum partner to get out of the lynch just like yesterday by wasting time and waiting for suspicious to rise somewhere else.

You are truly moronic and burdened with OMGUS. I am all for a Ray lynch, but I hate quick lynches as a rule and I'm not quick-lynching and then dumping responsibility for said quick lynch on my replacement.

Stop the name calling. If you need to do that in order to prove a point, then I wish to play no further with you.

[Snow_Bunny]

Snow_Bunny, roflcopter, tajo, Snow White, and AGOTI, list/spectrum of player reads, please.

I told you before, I'll answer after you answer my question. Why are you deliberately ignoring it?

[Snow_Bunny]

@crypto: Ok, I see your reasons. They are weak, but I wasn't expecting much from you either.

So, my turn. Here, have your small list:

Ray -> Scum, needs to die ASAP.
AGOTI -> Scum as well, should have been lynched on D1. I find her a bit more scummy than Ray, but Ray already survived one day.
crypto -> Tunneling on me is so scummy it's not even funny.
Tajo -> Neutral. There's something I don't like about his posts, but if my memory serves me well, I guess that's the same with him.
Mike -> I was getting a town read from him at the beginning, but the comment on the number of scums and his lasts post are making me doubt of that.
SW -> Town. Good vibes from her. Though, she needs to post more
Elvis -> Neutral leaning town. Good posts, though I didn't like the comment on vigging.
Spyrex-> Town.
Rofl -> I got a scummy read from him at the beginning, that hasn't change.
Porochaz -> Town. Just gut.

[Snow_Bunny]

Mod: I'm having serious connection issues, so I'm a bit of LA for now. I'll try to fix this as soon as possible.

ok

[Snow_Bunny]

Time for AGOTI to be out of this world.

Vote: AGOTI

On what crazy and baseless reasons was I bussing Ray?

[Snow_Bunny]

The points brought on rofl are good, I reckon that. But I still think AGOTI has done little to prove her towniness, and much to prove her scuminess.

@elvis_knight: Maybe I'm getting it all wrong, but why Tajo, if it was Rofl the one AGOTI talked about in her last post?

[Snow_Bunny]

@SW: Here's an answer for some points you brought up against me:
-For the last time, I didn't hammer RF when I had the chance because I didn't want to end the day so early.
-I changed my vote to AGOTI because I believed that she were more scummy than him. I still think she's quite scummy.
-I kind of forgot about looking after Crypto. Too many games can make you forget things.

Ok, let's point out Crypto scumminess.
-Jumping off Ray's wagon on D1 as soon as the opportunity rose.
-Constant attack on me, mostly reasonless (makes me think that he was attacking me because I was attacking Ray)
-Delaying unnecessarily Ray's lynch

So, his scumminess is based on Ray's. Truth be told, I'm not much of a fan of scum-for-association (I think it can lead to many misunderstandings), but the points are noted. Also, AGOTI is still scummier.

[Snow_Bunny]

Again, mod, connection issues here, so I'm kind of LA for now.

I've seen it, now hope I'll remember

[Snow_Bunny]

Sorry for not posting. Bad connection + holidays = few posts.

Ok, I'm going to go with the cop claim as of now. I'm not ruling out sanity issues, but as Elvis stated, another night would give more results.

@Crypto: What are your thoughts on AGOTI as of now?

I'm still 100% on for a AGOTI lynch.

Mbf vs Elvis seems like town vs town. Not trusting a claimed cop at once in a game like this is not bad, just a some paranoid.

[Snow_Bunny]

Btw, there's no mention whatsoever to the deadline in the rules nor in the first page nor in the votecounts.

Mod, when is the deadline?

[Snow_Bunny]

How can people say it's possible I am AGOTI's scum partner? Then, you are saying that I would bus both of my scum partners (provided there are three scums)? In such a small game? Right. I know that goes into wifom, but really, I can't see a scum doing that. Since D1 I've been all over Ray and AGOTI.

I'm really not liking Rofl's change of attitude from "lynch me I don't care" to "I'm confirmed town let's lynch the one who's against that". But, as I said before, let's leave this matter for tomorrow. Today's is AGOTI's day.

After reading some previous posts, I am getting some interesting ideas. I am finding a link between Elvis and Rofl on D1. On D1 she tries to stop Ray's lynch with the defence of "he's a VI". I don't get something about her claim. She says she investigated Rofl on D1 because she was worried of her lack of presence, yet she had a town read on him on D1. The post about not gaining anything lynching her due to sanities issues seems like a safe escape. Right now I'm willing to say that the scum team is Ray-Rolf-Evils, with Crypto being town (a safe result for her to claim, as she believe there are no third party). With the sanity she's keeping us under guessing, and preventing from lynching her or her partner. I know it is a bit risky, but it wouldn't be the first time a scum claimed cop and survived till endgame. If she was truly uncertain about her sanity, wouldn't letting Rolf be lynched helped her with that? Instead, she decided to claim, to come out in the open (with the uncertainty of town having a doctor) just to save an innocent result, with the chance of such result being scum (taking into account Rofl's scummy play). A risky gambit for a scum to made, but if you think it from that point of view, it's also a very risky play for a town to make. If we assume three scum players, Elvis would be left alone if Ray is to be lynched. That would make 6 vs 1 on D4. Very hard for scum to win in that situation, imo.

The breadcrumbs could just be part of the plan. Hey, it's not like scum always improvise. They can make plans, you know.

So, after that, I'm not sure anymore if today really is AGOTI's day.

I still find SW and Poroz town. And, on light of that new thought, I can't say much on Tajo. There's something I don't like about his posts. Can't say exactly what it is. As someone else said, there's certainly a connection between him and AGOTI, but I would prefer first an AGOTI's flip in order to build a case upon that.

I, for now, would like to hear your thoughts regarding the possible Rolf-Elvis scum team.

[Snow_Bunny]

Go into detail, please. I'm beginning to think that due to your thoughts on me you are not even paying attention to my case.

[Snow_Bunny]

Then, I won't waste time with your accusations either.

[Snow_Bunny]

What else do I need to say? I gave my thoughts regarding the cop issue. Also, just to add something, Crypto has like the worst read capabilities so far. Just pointing that out.

[Snow_Bunny]

Damn it, I hate all of you saying things like "SB is not here" or "SB doesn't give her opinions" and that stuff. I might not post as much as you, but I try to post in a regular basis while giving my opinions. Maybe it's not enough for some of you, but I have given my thoughts. I don't like to be the type of player like crypto who seems to post much but in the end doesn't add anything new. I don't like to post just for the sake of posting.

/rant.

Some of you (specially the ones mentioned in it) think that my 820 is a terrible post. Why, exactly? I am considering one thing regarding this setup, and it fits perfectly with Elvis and one of Rofl and Crypto being scum. The theory of a Elvis-Crypto seems good enough, even more than Elvis-Rofl, and I am being more and more inclined to believe that Elvis is lying.

By the way, guys, this—

What else do I need to say? I gave my thoughts regarding the cop issue. Also, just to add something, Crypto has like the worst read capabilities so far. Just pointing that out.

—is either a scum slip or (less likely) a statement by a townie who failed miserably to articulate with remote clarity her transition from a rock-solid scum read on me to a town read on me.

"Crypto has like the worst read capabilities so far." That does not apply to scum. As for the impending argument that this is simply an example of imperfect English, don't even go there. It's very clear what SB is saying here. It has nothing to do with the lucidity of her writing. Me having bad read capabilities requires that I be town. You simply don't say that about (potential) scum.

Why is this a scumslip? Because I am not sure that you are scum and that there's a chance you are townie with awful reading capabilities? I am town, and you'll learn that you really need to work harder on your scumhunting, if you are town. But as I am leaning to believe you are scum with Elvis, that changes everything.

bunny can I have a scumlist in your following post?

~Scum~
Elvis
Rofl
Crypto
AGOTI

The list is not in order, and it's just about the ones I have heavy suspicious. I'm starting to believe Elvis is lying. And that one of Rofl and Crypto is the other one. Still, I can't ignore AGOTI, and again, it seems like a lynch of Elvis/Rofl/Crypto is not happening today.

I am not much on a Tajo's lynch.

Mikeburnfire, my other beefs with you are (a) posts 585–589 and (b) Spyre's announcement that posts 585–589 were "BERRY INTERESTINGS" shortly before his death.

---

Snow_Bunny Case

• Contrived syntax.
  
• Passive-aggressive faux scum hunting.
  
• OMGUSing me.
  
• Whining pettily about PR directing . . .
  
• . . . and all the other garbage that constituted iso. 14.
  
• Lurking, often only coming out of her lurker shell when strongly suspected.
  
• Sitting on the fence between RayFrost and a girl on the internet.
  
• Playing "I'll answer your question if you answer my question first" games when the questions are unrelated (IIRC).
  
• Iso. 19 is fantastic! Lo, the 20/20 hindsight, in which she declares Ray was the obvious lynch on day 1—wait a sec, wasn't she rolling the dice between him and AGOTI?
  
• While I'm at it, iso. 20 contains a delicious underhanded OMGUS directed at me.
  
• Egregious amount of fluff. Seems like every other post is a mini trash heap of half-hashed analysis.

  I still find SW and Poroz town. And, on light of that new thought, I can't say much on Tajo. There's something I don't like about his posts. Can't say exactly what it is. As someone else said, there's certainly a connection between him and AGOTI, but I would prefer first an AGOTI's flip in order to build a case upon that.

• This quote (from iso. 31) sings scum buddies with either populartajo or Snow White and Porochaz or AGOTI. Can't even tell which is most likely. It's all profoundly scummy in my opinion, like she's crawling on cracked ice. Back to the start of iso. 31, I don't like how she talks about how she's been all over AGOTI, then takes a feeble shot at rofl and elvis. She calls me town despite slamming
  OMGUS
  a scum read on me four posts up. Conclusion: rofl and elvis are the scum team (I like how she
  knows
  the team consists of three players, not four), but Tajo is also scummy. Go, go, spread that suspicion!

Weak at best, tbh. What's exactly contrived syntax? Omgusing you? So, I must ignore all the horrible things you have posted just because you attacked me first? Seems more like you are angry because I drew attention to you.

[Snow_Bunny]

Damn it, I hate all of you saying things like "SB is not here" or "SB doesn't give her opinions" and that stuff. I might not post as much as you, but I try to post in a regular basis while giving my opinions. Maybe it's not enough for some of you, but I have given my thoughts. I don't like to be the type of player like crypto who seems to post much but in the end doesn't add anything new. I don't like to post just for the sake of posting.

I'm pretty sure you have under thirty posts. You post hardly any fresh analysis at all whatsoever. That's lurking.

/conversation

Quantity=/=quality.

Some of you (specially the ones mentioned in it) think that my 820 is a terrible post. Why, exactly? I am considering one thing regarding this setup, and it fits perfectly with Elvis and one of Rofl and Crypto being scum. The theory of a Elvis-Crypto seems good enough, even more than Elvis-Rofl, and I am being more and more inclined to believe that Elvis is lying.

I explained why, genius. You said elvis and rofl, and that is a stupid, stupid, stupid idea until we have any info suggestive of an elvis-rofl pair. It does not fit the setup. There's a godfather and that implies a cop, and there has been no counterclaim. Her reports make sense. There are not two godfathers (so shoot me if there are). You did not say elvis and I were more likely than elvis and rofl. You emphatically said elvis and rofl were far more likely and I was very probably town.

Stop backtracking.

Why is it stupid to think that Elvis may be lying? Do you have inside info that she is telling the truth? For all I know and care, she may be scum lying. A godfather existing doesn't necessarily means there's a cop. There's a reason this is a themed game rather than a normal. Elvis-rolf, Elvis-crypto, I don't know. But you see a common factor, right?

Why is this a scumslip? Because I am not sure that you are scum and that there's a chance you are townie with awful reading capabilities? I am town, and you'll learn that you really need to work harder on your scumhunting, if you are town. But as I am leaning to believe you are scum with Elvis, that changes everything.

You did not say you are "not sure that you are scum and that there's a chance you are townie with awful reading capabilities." You said, "You have awful reading capabilities." There was zero hesitation.

Stop backtracking.

Blah blah blah blah.

Weak at best, tbh. What's exactly contrived syntax? Omgusing you? So, I must ignore all the horrible things you have posted just because you attacked me first? Seems more like you are angry because I drew attention to you.

Excellent job attempting (and failing) to rebut one point—the weakest, the one hinging completely on gut instead of reason and therefore next to impossible to advocate—and ignoring all the others. Syntax is a grammatical term. (Merriam-Webster is your friend for these matters.) I think the way you phrase things is scummy. E.g., "Top scummy is . . ." instead of "Most scummy is . . ." or "Scummiest player so far is . . ." In my experience, scum are more likely to do this than townies, simply because of heightened self-consciousness.

"TBH" is scummy, by the way. Don't use it.

All your case is weak. ALL OF IT. Also, for your information, English is not my mother language. And thus, I do now know all that syntaxes crap you are talking about. I post as I post, regardless of alignment. It's funny how you try to grasp at every tiny little thing to help your case. Surely it is

very

strong.

@SnowBunny. Why not on board for a tajo dish of the day? Who do you think should be lynched?

I believe I have been clear enough that I want AGOTI lynched. Either her or Elvis.

And because she wants to lynch the cop and the cop's two innocent results.

I don't think you are cop, any more. And thus, I don't see myself as trying to lynch the cop and the two "innocent" results.

Look, I'm going to out my thoughts right now. It may seem as rolefishing, and thus I don't want things like "no, I have proof it is wrong." Just hear it out and why I think Elvis is lying: the whole town setup consists only on VTs. All town players killed so far are VT. Tajo claimed VT. I am VT. That's 5 out of what, 10 townies? And I am thinking that the whole setup is just a mind screw from our dear mod. Yeah, it's likely that I am wrong. But, between believing Elvis claim and the fishy play afterwards of the three implicated and my theory, I rather go with my own.

[Snow_Bunny]

I have already claimed. I am town.

I hope that, regardless of how things are, town wins.

If tonight's dead flip town as well, you might want to start considering my theory of a pure vanilla setup.

[Snow_Bunny]

Mind screwing. What's the point of it being a themed game if it has no weird thingies? I believe it is all a gambit from our dear mod.

[Snow_Bunny]

Short answer: I agree. Slightly longer answer: I want to say she's scum, but what she's doing here is so ridiculous it baffles me into second-guessing myself. In my experience, scum are almost never this gutsy with their fake reads.

I'm going to feel like an idiot

now if she flips town after all this. And her theories adds an extra dynamic to the play, which we can return to calling scummy later on; Tajo's don't all that much. Lastly, I'm considering—and this is pure speculation, so let's not fight—that you really are scum and you're trying to get rid of her.

It all makes me think a Tajo lynch is (a) safer and (b) smarter.

You better feel that way, because, if you are town, well...

And why suddenly the claimed cop is the confirmed cop? I must have missed that.

[Snow_Bunny]

Snow Bunny, what do you think its wrong on this paragraph?

Hi guys.

Should have let you and mod know that I was away for Christmas. So Merry Christmas and such!

So back into the game, reread this, reread that, Elvis claims cop in 710 and here is a dandy analysis of what Ill call the breaking point:

First, worst scenario: Elvisscum claiming cop when rolf is at L-1.

-First idea coming to my mind is elvis-rolf scumteam with carrie preventing rabbit lynch which pretty much was inevitable. Can it happen? Definitely. I tried (and failed) at this in invi4 to save rolf himself for a lynch that interestingly enough ended in mine and in the loss of the whole scumteam.

Balance tells me that there is max 3 scum left here, leaning to 2, so a gambit like this definitely is a high risk-low reward scenario with pretty much the loss for the scumteam most of the times. Simply for the fact that all the chain explodes when only one of the links fails. So I dont see elvisscum saving rolfscum at l-1, and if this is the case, then when all the lynches keep popping out townies and all the nightkills keep popping out more townies and elvis and their investigations miraculously dont die, then voila, we have the scum here.

-Second idea is elvis scum-rolf town interaction that definitely is something to notice if elvis doesnt die near lylo. If elvis is scum, then claiming cop is pretty much suicide as long as people keep dying while she constantly keeps popping out investigations, which, we know, is something scum totally hate.

So tl/dr, elvis is prob town. If she stays alive for 2-3 more days, then she is prob scum.

Second, best scenario: Elvistown claiming cop when rolf is at L-1.

-Elvis cop for some strange reason gets a town result on rolf scum. This scenario is less likely with godfather frost dead, but still plausible with the paraphernalia of roles in flashy arsenal. We could still apply the logic above with rolf. If elvis dies and is indeed a cop, then rolf prob becomes confirmed town. Confirmed townies are pain in scumbags ass. So, if he stays alive for more than he should, then analyse voting patterns, interactions with mafiosos, etc.

Elvis, did the mod tell you what happens in your reveal?

-Elvis and rolf are both town. Pretty much the scenario Im going to work with here (at the moment).

tl/dr, at this moment, the best thing is to assume that elvis is indeed a town cop for the simple fact that trying this gambit as scum is pretty much suicided and loss for the scumteam. Im also going to assume rolf is town, applying pretty much the same logic and the likeliness of having another messup with the investigations that are reduced with a godfather already dead.

First of all, you are assuming that Elvis-crypto team can't be possible. You are also assuming that the gambit (claiming to protect a partner) is high-risk low-reward, but I beg to differ. It there are only 3 scums (two left), and, let's say, rofl is scum and gets lynched, Elvis would start D4 alone and against 6 town. That's a bit hard for scum. And, if the gambit is to save a town-rofl (Elvis-crypto), the risks are lower. If Rofl gets lynched, then Elvis and crypto would be left as confirmed towns, and surely getting them an insta-win.

In the end, whatever everyone likes it or not, it's a matter of taking a stance. I took my stance of disbelieving the claim and thinking it's all a gambit.

But well, it can't be helped if town wants to play sheep.

I hope you get lynched soon.

And I hope town manages to win somehow.

[Snow_Bunny]

Mod: I'm VLA until Tuesday.

[Snow_Bunny]

If you lynch me, all you going to get is a dead VT. Probably one that hasn't played too well, but a town member in the end. If you lynch AGOTI, chances are that you'll end with a scum dead.

And I will tell all of you "I told you so" when the setup is shown at the end.

[Snow_Bunny]

I'd like to hear one more time, in a condense form, from where you are drawing the conclusion that if I'm scum Tajo is the only plausible partner.

[Snow_Bunny]

Oh right. It's based in scum trying to blend as town by reading between lines where there's nothing to read. Good case.

[Snow_Bunny]

snow bunny

post 82: the "neutral on mike" is odd, why even mention him if you have nothing to say about him?

bunny/mbf +

Why not mention it? I had something to say: "neutral". If I say a reading on a player, it is bad. If then I suddenly comment something on a player I haven't said anything yet, it is bad. It's a no-win situation for me then. Tell me, why it is odd a "neutral on mike". It is odder that a "town on mike"? Odder than a "scum on mike"?

post 285: me no likey. it's much like prozac with the pushing away from ray, while claiming to continue supporting his lynch. the last sentence in particular bothers me - it almost seems like gloating at the fact that the ray wagon has disappeared.

Again, tunneling is bad. Supporting two lynches is bad as well. ???. AGOTI was scummier, and thus I voted for her, but that doesn't mean that I'd forgotten Ray, nor that I liked the lack of pressure.

wow, her posting on d1 was even more sparce than i remembered. no comments at all on prozac or tajo, but then, there's no comments on like half the players in the game. it's mostly just whining about the fact that anyone could have the audacity to suspect her.

I usually don't comment on anybody unless I have something on them. I fail to see the point here.

post 614: makes no sense. i'm scummier than ray, but ray deserves to die more because "he's already survived one day". um, so did i? what?

it's nonsense that reflects well on her though. if she thinks it's reasonable to consider me scummier than ray, then one would think she'd also be trying to get me lynched over him if he was her scumbuddy.

So, you think I would push the lynch of my godfather when I could easily push yours? Right. Ray escaped D1 lynch, you didn't. Ray got to L-1. You didn't. That's why I say he survived one day.

the reads on the other three, i think the mbf point looks the least like scum. "i had a town read on him before, but i'm starting to doubt" -> given that mbf was getting the most heat, that looks a lot like priming herself to jump on another townie if she felt the need later.

prozac is listed as town, with a "just gut" qualifier added. spyrex got "town" without any qualifiers; the fact that she finds it necessary to justify her town read on prozac in some way could be an indication that she was worried about looking connected.

tajo gets the "neutral", which i think is the most likely scumbuddy position, though. it says "i am totally not with this guy", but doesn't require one to actually push for a lynch on him.

I wouldn't push for anyone else as I felt that AGOTI is scum. And, it isn't the first time I used the "neutral read" on this game, so I don't see how can you come up with that. I hadn't given much attention to tajo, for that matter, just that small reading.

post 680: wait,

crypto

was unnecessarily delaying ray's lynch?

bunny/tajo +

, because if that's a point against crypto, tajo clearly deserves heat for doing the same, only much worse.

What can I say? I honestly ignored tajo, as I had grudge against crypto.

post 820: "And, on light of that new thought, I can't say much on Tajo. There's something I don't like about his posts. Can't say exactly what it is. As someone else said, there's certainly a connection between him and AGOTI, but I would prefer first an AGOTI's flip in order to build a case upon that."

whoever it was that pointed out how this totally looks like bunny hoping to make tajo look good off my town flip, you're totally right. especially when you factor in this comment of hers from 680: "Truth be told, I'm not much of a fan of scum-for-association (I think it can lead to many misunderstandings)".

bunny/tajo ++

I find you scummier than tajo. I find a link between you and tajo. What's the natural course of action? Lynch you and then draw conclusions. And, as you quoted, I'm not a fan of linking players like that. Anyone can buddy, town and scum alike.

post 1007: OMG, this is ridiculous. elvis is not scum with crypto. here is the huge flaw in your reasoning:

"And, if the gambit is to save a town-rofl (Elvis-crypto), the risks are lower. If Rofl gets lynched, then Elvis and crypto would be left as confirmed towns, and surely getting them an insta-win."

let me narrow it down a little more:

"If Rofl gets lynched"

there it is! THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. elvis guaranteed that that will never happen by claiming innocent on him. something that she had absolutely no motivation to do if she is scum and he is not. he would have been lynched today, that's pretty much a fact. i almost certainly would have gone tomorrow. then elvis and crypto just have to turn whichever of you/mbf/prozac/tajo/white they decide to leave alive against each other, and easy money.

why on earth would elvis want to make it so much harder on herself by preventing the rofl lynch, and risk being counterclaimed, and force herself into coming up with results every day? there is no reason for her to do that. it is absurd to think that she would do that. elvis is not scum with crypto, you can take that to the bank.

I already gave my thoughts on why the gambit of claiming cop isn't exactly risky for scum. We know for sure that elvis isn't scum, but I had no possible way of knowing that, and I had a feeling that claim was shaky, and I went for that. So, am I scum for not trusting a cop with an innocent result on a player I found scummy, when there's a good chance it could be all a gambit?

anyway. after isoreading bunny, i am surprised to discover just exactly how useless she has been, and definitely seeing a strong chance of a bunny/tajo pair from her side. enough so to counteract the negative data i got on that from the tajo read, fo sho.

---

in order of likelihood:

tajo/prozac
tajo/bunny
prozac/mbf

definitely think it's one of those three. so, lynch me, lynch tajo, lynch prozac. if tajo flips scum and prozac doesn't, lynch bunny. if prozac flips scum and tajo doesn't, lynch mbf.

(we can skip the 'lynch me' step if you want, i don't mind.)

done.

After reading this, I can only see you as trying to grasp to every small thing to make me tajo's partner. It's like religion: you want to take every small thing and make everyone believe it's all part of a divine plan. No, some times things just happen.

You made a big analysis, made some connections here and there between players, and finally setup the lynches after tajo flipped. A set of possibilities that give the town the feeling that they have the game in their hands. For me, you could easily be scum doing that. You might have impressed some of the other players with your big post, but for me you're just trying to make connections in order to setup lynches and clear you of fault.

Vote: Agoti

[Snow_Bunny]

Meh, good game scum.

[Snow_Bunny]

Though, I still don't understand why this is a themed game rather than a large normal.

[Snow_Bunny]

So, it was only a partially mindscrew with your players to avoid setup guessing.