Mini 870: Melee mafia. (Mod Abandoned)

[chamber]

/confirm

[chamber]

Ok, so I guess since votes don't really matter anyway, I'll just

Vote: chamber

. Playstyle's so annoying...no offense to chamber.

All role PMs are out, first discussion section will commence as soon as

all

players have confirmed in thread.

All role PMs are out, first discussion section will commence as soon as

all

players have confirmed in thread.

All role PMs are out, first discussion section will commence as soon as

all

players have confirmed in thread.

[chamber]

Vote kirbyoshi

for knowing who I am.

[chamber]

Cathart sits down near the campfire, and takes the piece of freshly roasted boar.

"All right, it's just a formality, but I'll try anyway in a peaceful manner, before the bloodshed will happen...

Who killed Terroth?"

((ho hum... votes are useless here, so I'll post something like this instead, until we'll have a good point to start discussion...

Edit, by hitting preview button: What do you mean by that chamber?))

I mean he called my style annoying pregame(I'm fairly sure I've never played with him) and pointless voted me because of it, so I returned the favor.

[chamber]

I say this with no offence intended but please tell me all your posts aren't going to be walls like these 2.

[chamber]

I'm all for voting but I'm not attacking someone I have a town read on.

[chamber]

I'm all for voting but I'm not attacking someone I have a town read on.

[chamber]

You seemed to miss the point so I thought I'd repeat myself.

[chamber]

Suggesting a plan that I've already openly disagreed with and suggesting I get killed under said plan doesn't seem very pro-town to me.

[chamber]

-Who is Kise? Kast is not Kise. The implication that Kast is proposing we use some "PM format" is misleading and your proposed reaction to death by "an ogre" makes no sense. The claim that some player named Kise (or anything else) is proposing we use some "PM format" is not supported by any posts so far in this game.

Yea how could I have made that mistake.

And how could one ever assume if I go "do it in thread" and you go "NO" that the implication would be anything else.

3 pages in and I already don't care. That's pretty awesome and a new lap record.

Vote: Kast

Why so glum?

[chamber]

point 1: I'm going to attack someone each of my melee phases.
point 1.1: If there is no majority come my melee phase I'll attack whoever I feel like.
point 2: If I have a town read on the 'majority' player then I wont attack them.
point 2.1: This means I'll attack who I feel like if you majority decide somone I have a town read on.
point 3: If I have a null or scum read on the 'majority' player I will attack them.

Just so you know where I stand.


Also, kast, please stop with the walls, please.

[chamber]

^

This is exactly the issue with the system that is trying to be eliminated.

However, whatevs'.

P.S. if I have to scroll to read a post I'm not reading it.

In my mind its like a weak vig, and I'm in the vig every night camp.

[chamber]

Which would be fine if you were the only one who could do it. The problem arises when everyone starts doing it - its like having a mess of vigs and the issues it causes.

Then, of course, the other side is a bunch of people that are wounded are just asking to get picked off in the great harvest.

I haven't gotten around to reading the game nuwen keeps referencing, doing so may change my mind. Until then I think every town player being a vig and vigging every night sounds like a great idea.

[chamber]

Yes I knew votes didn't count.

Just so its clear I expect to maybe refuse to follow majority on 1 lynch in the entire game (I imagine it has a higher chance of being 0 than 2) but I Will attack someone else in those cases. This all assumes that game that I still haven't read doesn't change my mind.

[chamber]

Still not finished catching up yet, but @chamber: You replaced out of Crayola Catastrophe (where I played with you) because NO ONE liked your playstyle.

Sorry, try to block that game out of my memory. Dicks.

[chamber]

Well, your tl;dr version in blue can be confusing at times. I don't care if you make long posts or multiple short posts, but could you keep that blue thing off? Or at least post it in normal black colour. Just a small request.

The blue writing is all that keeps me sane.

[chamber]

People who have either been useful, helpful, acted in a pro-town way, or have otherwise given me a good vibe so far:

1) Nuwen
2) populartajo
5) SpyreX
6) Kast
8) Snow_Bunny
10) chamber

People I'd be willing to lynch for not being on the above list(IE: everyone else)
3) TonyMontana
4) Grover
9) Kirbyoshi
11) farside22
12) Col.Cathart

I would really like to hear everyone's suspicions. Most people haven't attacked anyone yet at all, and that needs to change within the next 24 hours or so; I'd like to see us starting to get somewhere by the time this discussion period is over.

I figure I'll just attack someone and see how they react.

[chamber]

chamber, congrats. You have just invalidated the first case you make, since you just admitted that you're going to "just attack someone".

You say that now, but when you take a good kick to the jaw you wont be laughing.

[chamber]

we could have half of the players, maybe more, close to death after the first melee phase. Not a good situation to have, since scum can attack just like town can.

Unless my role is WAY above the curve in defense or WAY bellow the curve in offence, this simply isn't true.

[chamber]

chamber: what?????

If every player had my role and did max damage I dont think there would be that many dead players after 1 round of attack.

[chamber]

Mod: Can you please, if it isn't much of a hassle, put the current phase in the topic title? Looks better and more exciting for strangers that way ¬_¬ (no really, please?)

So, chamber, I agree with you that if you don't feel like attacking a player you have a town vibe then don't attack him. But, why do you want to spread out damage like that? And, was that a softclaim?

Based on conversation with the mod I was assuming everyone's role was at least somewhat similar to mine, so no it wasn't intended to be a soft claim. "spread out damage" is also a bit of a misnomer. 1 I don't expect the town to majority someone I have a town read on more than once really 2 In my mind the person I'm putting damage on is going to be mafia. I don't really expect more than 2ish non majority attackers per wagon/lynch.

[chamber]

Btw, chamber's Post 134 is a great example of out of context quoting. By itself it's a pretty crap-logic based argument. Defense is completely irrelevant to KY's post. Offence is only relevant in terms of damage, and has no bearing in terms of attack bonus (which is how the term is being used from context).

It's hard to quote something out of context when its the previous post, I was just quoting to make it clear what I thought was untrue. By defense I meant HP, and I took "attack rolls" to mean both toHit rolls and toDamage rolls.

His follow up explanation re:damage is valid as an argument but incorrect due to bad numbers. Also, if every player did max damage and we assume no bonuses, then that's 12 damage per player per attack resulting in 288 damage. That should be enough to kill or critically wound most of us.

I stand by my statement.

[chamber]

In talk with shea he told me he thought all roles were within 1 standard deviation of each other. On further reflection I guess my defense could be huge and my offense terrible. When I stated what I did I was assuming all my stats were within 1 sd which could clearly be faulty on a relook. I still stand by exact statement though "If every player was me, and we all did max damage, than more than half the players wouldn't be close to death".I should note that before bonuses I only get 12(6+6) damage per player, please tell me where you are getting 24. At any rate the chance of all of us doing max damage is something like 7.5e-43 (using your combat math) that number is very small. If we look at expected damage instead then I definitely don't think many players will be close to death.

[chamber]

TL DR

Prob Town

Yosa
Bunny
Spyrex
Nuwen
Kast
Chamber

Neutral

Col-drowmage
farside
Grover
Tony

Prob Scum

Kirbyyoshi

I still think so far, Tony is most likely to be scum, but any cases people can make at this stage are going to be weak.

Why?

Lets start with the scumhunting.

Vote: Kirbyyoshi.

My case is lack of towniness.

6 town reads on page 7, really?

[chamber]

6 town reads on page 7, really?

I am that good. You dont have any town reads?

Not one.

[chamber]

6 town reads on page 7, really?

I am that good. You dont have any town reads?

Not one.

lol

Why not?

What about scum reads? Anything that has caught your attention?

I have no strong reads one way or the other at this point. I think your full of shit if you are claiming to have 7 strong reads already.

[chamber]

@drow: Mechanics discussions should not last 7 pages. Another reason I want to put a stop to the focus on mechanics is that I play better without talking about them. Once people start dropping some actual scumtells, my play will become much smoother.

You can't just expect players to drop scumtells by themselves. You have to put people into situations where they will react. I think mechanical discussion, when the game is as unique as this one, is a good place for such things to branch from.

[chamber]

@Drowmage-
-

Speculating and

discussing mechanics at the expense

or to the exclusion

of scumhunting is generally detrimental.

But

agreed that there shouldn't ever be a

hard

constraint against discussing mechanics;

especially not in a non-traditional game like this.

-The article is about brevity, but nowhere states that content should be dropped for brevity's sake. My posts have touched on

(and raised)

nearly every game relevant subjec

t, particularly how this game works and what we're going to do about that.

I'd rather post something longer than assume that someone else will do it.

@KY Case-
I don't really see it. He placed one of the first serious votes of the game and it was weak. He could be following/buddying on me. Is that all?

@TM Case-
TM has directly contradicted himself

and implicitly contradicted himself

. He hasn't bothered to defend

explain or defend

either contradiction

, instead he's been playing extremely conciliatory (probably what led to the contradictions).

It's like he doesn't care what he says as long as it's agreeing with the majority

and won't ruffle feathers.

I strongly suspect scum in this game want to lurk and avoid getting townies upset with them. TM's play fits this bill.

This recent post from KY also fits my expected scum behavior.

Why is this green?

@Tajo-
-Without a

unanimous or

near unanimous agreement on punishing rogues, I don't think it is

fair or

feasible. If you can convince 2 out of {Chamber, Grover, Snow_bunny, TonyMontoya}, to agree

on punishing rogues,

I think we'll be okay with it.

@Rushing-
This game doesn't have deadlines. As long as players continue to post, we can prolong the Melee Phase indefinitely

and discuss anything necessary.

There is seriously no need to rush.

@Drowmage-
-Discussing mechanics at the expense of scumhunting is generally detrimental. Agreed that there shouldn't ever be a constraint against discussing mechanics.
-The article is about brevity, but nowhere states that content should be dropped for brevity's sake. My posts have touched on nearly every game relevant subject.

I'd rather post something longer than assume that someone else will do it.

@KY Case-
I don't really see it. He placed one of the first serious votes of the game and it was weak. He could be following/buddying on me. Is that all?

@TM Case-
TM has directly contradicted himself. He hasn't bothered to defendeither contradiction It's like he doesn't care what he says as long as it's agreeing with the majority.

I strongly suspect scum in this game want to lurk and avoid getting townies upset with them. TM's play fits this bill.

This recent post from KY also fits my expected scum behavior.

@Tajo-
-Without a near unanimous agreement on punishing rogues, I don't think it is feasible. If you can convince 2 out of {Chamber, Grover, Snow_bunny, TonyMontoya}, to agree ] I think we'll be okay with it.

@Rushing-
This game doesn't have deadlines. As long as players continue to post, we can prolong the Melee Phase indefinitely. There is seriously no need to rush.

5 minutes and just removed unneeded words. I'm pretty sure if I started paraphrasing I could cut it in half from the second quote, but you get the point.

[chamber]

I think in this game, scum are the root of confusion, because, to me, this game has been kind of confusing so far, even in the part I'm familiar with.

Elaborate.

[chamber]

@nuwen. If I have a strong read on someone its right more often than random. I've agreed to go along with majority in the case of weak/null reads so they don't really matter.

Vote KY

[chamber]

I never said you shouldn't vote

This game does not have a voting system. I suggested that we vote anyway and asked what everyone thinks. You said no.

-Should we vote for a lynch candidate?

I don't think voting for a lynch candidate will a feasibly strategy.

Kast, I was trying to not intervene but Tony specifically says that voting for a lynch candidate will be unfeasible. This doesn't say one shouldn't vote, it talks about the function of voting. Tony feels players should vote for emphasis as opposed to for a lynch candidate. I don't understand how this misunderstanding has managed to stretch across so many posts.

[chamber]

@Chamber-
Vote for emphasis = vote for a lynch candidate.
A vote for emphasis is placed on your lynch candidate to emphasize your suspicion.

The question is not "do you think voting will result in a lynch?", it was "should we vote?"

It was not a mechanics question. There was significant discussion providing a background for the questions. I only quoted the question for brevity, but if you insist I can post the full context.

Please don't. I'll go reread the context myself. I have been thinking this since it was first said I was just trying to not answer questions directed at others. Given that I doubt a reread will change my mind and suggest you also reread.

[chamber]

@Chamber-
Vote for emphasis = vote for a lynch candidate.
A vote for emphasis is placed on your lynch candidate to emphasize your suspicion.

The question is not "do you think voting will result in a lynch?", it was "should we vote?"

It was not a mechanics question. There was significant discussion providing a background for the questions. I only quoted the question for brevity, but if you insist I can post the full context.

I agree with chamber here, actually. Tony said that a voting for a lynch "would not be feasible", which basically means it's not practical. In his very next post, he said that people should vote, in order to emphasize their suspicions. He made that quite clear, and he never said that people shouldn't vote, at all.

You say that like its strange to agree with me.

[chamber]

kast, can you please qoute all of Tonys contradictions,mind changes,whatever and very briefly explain them in context.

[chamber]

@Grover-

Melee phase is not equivalent to night in this game.

Scum nightkill the same way they normally do. At night. Not publicly.

Don't immediately assume that I am ignorant about basic game mechanics because I haven't posted in a while.

Hurting who we think is scummy is good and I stand by that.

Are you an alt? I will settle for a y/n answer.

[chamber]

@Chamber-
Vote for emphasis = vote for a lynch candidate.
A vote for emphasis is placed on your lynch candidate to emphasize your suspicion.

The question is not "do you think voting will result in a lynch?", it was "should we vote?"

It was not a mechanics question. There was significant discussion providing a background for the questions. I only quoted the question for brevity, but if you insist I can post the full context.

I agree with chamber here, actually. Tony said that a voting for a lynch "would not be feasible", which basically means it's not practical. In his very next post, he said that people should vote, in order to emphasize their suspicions. He made that quite clear, and he never said that people shouldn't vote, at all.

You say that like its strange to agree with me.

This wasn't phraised as a question but I would like it talked about. Why did you add the ",actually".

[chamber]

Unvote Vote grover

[chamber]

As long as no one is attacking this phase I won't either.

@kirby: Although my vote isn't on you atm I'd be almost as happy to see you hang as I would grover.

[chamber]

I posted less than a day ago, which was 7 posts ago, and covered that topic in it.

[chamber]

unvote vote kirby

lets get this moving.

[chamber]

Look above to see drow making a fuss over nothing.

Also, does anyone have "roles"? dunno bout you, drow, but us town folks have stats

and alignment

. I'd brush this off as a mere semantic issue, except you asked him to claim his role, after he had claimed everything.

[chamber]

I missed TM's post at the bottom of the last page. It's a strawman. I'm trying to key kirby to claim his alignment. If I were being asked to claim the first thing I would says is that I received a role PM that says I'm town.

So, I'll withdraw my comment

I think that everyone claims to be town is assumed.

[chamber]

hohum is clearly drownmage's main account.

[chamber]

unvote vote nuwen

In light of grover replacing and me liking kirbys recent posts.

[chamber]

Someone needs to attack someone.

[chamber]

unvote vote nuwen

In light of grover replacing and me liking kirbys recent posts.

What do Kirby's posts and Grover replacing out have to do with my alignment?

Directly? absolutely nothing. Relatively, with them removed, you are next on my list though.

[chamber]

Oh, ok. Not sure it'll help determine my alignment, but it's "Fade Into Violence".

Your claimed feat is something that would naturally disincline players from attacking you.
-If you were false claiming, it was possible you might not have thought it through (this is not the case).
-With 13AC, most attacks are liable to miss and trigger your feat (effectively giving you bonus attacks). I'm a bit surprised that you have not emphasized this.

Eh, I don't think he's lying about the feat. There's really no need for him to do so, considering that roles have no correlation to alignment, plus it'd be instantly obvious he was lying as soon as someone attacked him.

Of course, while I think he's telling the truth about his feat, that still dosn't have anything to do with his alignment.

If he is scum attacking him seems extremely dangerous. Ive also been getting good feelings from his more recent posts. I think we should save him for another day if anything.

[chamber]

Ok, I'll set a deadline, before this game crashes and burns from inactivity.

If Kirby still had a plurality of votes by Wednesday, I'm going to attack him. You have until then to convince the town to chance our minds. I'm saying Wednesday because I'm going away for thanksgiving on Thursday.

I don't even think kirby is scum and am willing to say "Just attack him" at this point.

[chamber]

I don't see how I can convince you I'm not scum, so I guess I'll just resign myself as the D1 Lynch.

What I learned from this game is how truly different this kind of setup can be, and how much players can differ. It's really hard to defend myself this game, for some odd reason. No matter what I do, everyone is convinced I'm scum...

You did manage to change my mind if that makes you feel better. But at this point something needs to happen to get the game moving. Im thinking that the melee phase should have been a free for all instead of ordered to help move the game along, but there may have been a design point against that that Ive missed.

[chamber]

mizzfit = snowbunny?

[chamber]

I was not anti-town! Kast was scum??? O_o

I didn't think you were I was just making a wild guess. I don't even remember farside being in the game -.-