Battle Mafia: Game Over

[Crazy]

I haven't been in a game this large in a while... but this is a cool group, and it's BM-mod, so it should be fun.

Vote: Haylen

for being a Serial Killer.

[Crazy]

BTW, the cop shouldn't investigate me. I'm a miller. Just saying.

Well, that'll likely cause a debate to start.

My position is that claiming like that is optimal miller play and should be treated as a null-tell.

[Crazy]

Well, I guess it comes down to, as Yos pointed out, that whether doing something is a scum/town/null-tell is dependent on the site's meta.

However, this is a slightly different case than, like, refusing to randomvote, because we can all agree that claiming miller as miller

is

optimal play.

Since that is the case, I think any scum-tell attached to claiming miller is negligible. I'm all for evaluating Seraphim as a normal player and just cops don't investigate him.

(Also, Shanba's point saying that an action that points to either scum or miller is more likely to come from scum because there are more scum than millers... that isn't true, because a much larger percentage of MILLERS claim miller than SCUM claim miller.)

BC, what are you talking about in post 38?

[Crazy]

GIEFF apparently has extra information that he's choosing not to reveal. Since it's his information, he likely knows best.

The discrepancy thing is very minor, but I don't have a big issue with Nik calling DTM out about it, since there's not much to go on at this point.

Yeah..... that's it.

[Crazy]

Vote to save: IH

[Crazy]

@tubby-
Why did you unvote your lynch vote when you voted to save me?

Haylen and Seraphim also unvoted. Did you miss that, or just choose to focus on tubby?

Cool. Second this question.

[Crazy]

Ugh, remind me not to get 1.5 days behind again.


Even if the poison wasn't WIFOM, we still wouldn't know for sure it came from scum, and it's mod-WIFOM to try to figure out what the exact role is, anyway. For now, I doubt it makes much of a difference.

This is anxious to you? That's about as 'droll musing' as I get, but mmkay. Again, should I not ask questions or try to stimulate conversation? Just a one line vote like most others? Does that seem helpful to town? Personally I found the people who were present but avoided posting any conversation to be much more suspicious.

You're right, posting something is more pro-town than posting nothing, but it's a miniscule difference when what you're posting doesn't actually mean anything.

The IH poisoning, these people voted to save:

(Tubby, Cicero, Shanba, DTMaster, Gieff, Vi, Crazy, Haylen, Mariyta, ElectricBadger, Seraphim, CKD)

It's all WIFOM, but would the poisoner(if that's how it's been done, or if it's just a random thing) vote to save IH or not?

The people that voted were likely the same people that were on at that very time. As for me, I don't see why the poisoner would think that IH wouldn't immediately be saved. I think either they didn't know about the majority vote, or they actually didn't want IH to die for some random reason.

Not that it matters at this moment. Speculation is pretty useless.

****

And we get to BC's spam-fest. The only interesting thing was that he said his vote on vollkan was serious. (???????) When I originally read it I thought it was obviously a joke.

Anyway, to me it's pretty clear that no one is actually bothering to work out what BloodCovenent was actually saying there, and (here's a hint) it's not that we shouldn't scumhunt.

Win. I had a feeling he was talking about saying that we shouldn't discuss whether scum should claim miller or not. (Or something like that.)

It was an odd quote, but not scummy.

***

@cicero

- What was the point of posting that post count right after BC's big spamfest? Besides, this game has been going on for like 5 days; the people with low post counts likely haven't been given a chance to post.


For now, I'm just going to

Unvote, Vote BloodCovenant

for him saying his vote on vollkan was serious. I don't feel strongly about this; I just wanted something better than a random vote.

[Crazy]

It is ridiculous that tubby has just one vote on him.

Assuming I'm right in what the case is; I kind of skimmed that:

Townies don't want to look scummy, either. Townies don't just post whatever the heck they want, because that's not helpful, since they'd probably just get lynched.

Actually, I think town would be

more

likely to admit that they were trying not to look scummy.

[Crazy]

Lolz, I don't think I've ever seen someone actually say something like that, before.

Unvote, Vote: tubby216

[Crazy]

I posted right above you.

Also, you asked the mod to prod yourself?

[Crazy]

Well, apparently tubby had very unusual grammar/syntax... I still have no idea what he was trying to say.

I'll go back to my

Vote: BC

for now (for his "serious" vollkan vote); I'll check up on stuff later to see if I spot anything else.

[Crazy]

Unvote
Vote Mariyta

That's the only option, here.

FoS: E-Badger

for his reaction to charter's reveal.

[Crazy]

Why the heck would charter say he knew Mariyta was scum if he was lying? When Mariyta flipped town, then he'd just be lynched next.

[Crazy]

Voting charter upon the possibility that he is a lyncher is stupid. If he doesn't want to full-claim, it's because there's some factor of his role that he doesn't want to reveal.

Also, I seriously doubt that the mod is going to put a role in a 24-person game that could end the game Day 1. If charter is a lyncher by some weird chance, then I'm sure his win condition wouldn't be mutually exclusive to everyone else. I even doubt he's a lyncher, because lyncher in a closed setup is a pretty easy win.

[Crazy]

Voting charter upon the possibility that he is a lyncher is stupid. If he doesn't want to full-claim, it's because there's some factor of his role that he doesn't want to reveal.

Also, I seriously doubt that the mod is going to put a role in a 24-person game that could end the game Day 1. If charter is a lyncher by some weird chance, then I'm sure his win condition wouldn't be mutually exclusive to everyone else. I even doubt he's a lyncher, because lyncher in a closed setup is a pretty easy win.

Don't try to outguess the mod. A lyncher is exactly what Charter seems like to me, frankly.

Think about how he isn't even questioning the message he's gotten. How does he know what it says is true? He doesn't care. :p

Outguessing the mod is only bad when you're talking about unusual roles, but ones that still might work. A lyncher in a 24-person closed game is severely broken, especially if lynching the lyncher's target would mean a town loss.

[Crazy]

GIEFF was a Mafia neighbour, the word neighbour to me suggest some sort of group, there could well be more than one.

"Neighbor" usually refers to an unconfirmed mason.

I'm 95% sure that charter isn't a lyncher, because it's so easy for a lyncher to win in a closed setup. Claim cop with a guilty on your target and then get them lynched. Too easy.

And "I agree with Yosarian2."

[Crazy]

And E-Badger was scum, awesome, which further inflicts the guilt upon Mariyta.

And after that I agree that the charter-wagon is a good place to find scum.

[Crazy]

She might just be trying to get charter in trouble with that post.

[Crazy]

Lol, I'm surprised Cicero didn't do what you did.

Vote: DTMaster

seems like a good start. I'll double-check tomorrow.

[Crazy]

Good enough for me.

Unvote, Vote SpyreX

(Tajo, my suspects were DTM and Nikanor... any more than that, I'll have to reread.)

[Crazy]

Wait, charter, SpyreX is CONFIRMED scum, right? Absolutely, positively?

[Crazy]

@Nik - What do you think charter is? Lyncher, scum, or misguided town?

[Crazy]

@Nik - What do you think charter is? Lyncher, scum, or misguided town?

Seeing as how we ended up lynching scum yesterday, probably town.
I have a theory, but I'll wait until later for that.

You think scum was lynched because of his investigation-whatever, or do you think it was a fluke?

[Crazy]

Ugh, now I wish charter had given us more information while he was alive.

Given that he was paranoid, it seems that Mariyta was telling the truth and it ended up being a fluke that she was scum.

I'm pretty sure charter's death nulls any case on SpyreX, but DTM and Nikanor are still scummy.

Unvote
Vote DTMaster

[Crazy]

@Crazy
Charter was very specific about lynching SpyreX and not viging him. I'm confused since Mariya was the redirector. Plus, even being a paranoid cop he had a good scum nose on Mari, and EB. Maybe Gieff(not sure about this one but for sure on the first two. I can't reread right now to confirm)

I wouldn't count out this information yet, paranoid cop or not.

FoS: Crazy for discounting Charter so easily.

I'm thinking Mariyta might have been a fluke. E-Badger was scummy because of his associations with Mariyta (same with you and Nikanor.) Same with cicero, though it turned out he wasn't protecting Mariyta, just trying to lynch someone else.

Charter was a paranoid cop. He probably wanted to lynch SpyreX because he got a guilty on him.

And you voted charter earlier, and you blame me for discounting his opinions after he's revealed as paranoid?

[Crazy]

@Tajo:

- Why did you opt to lynch DTM instead of SpyreX before charter's death? The guy had just lynched a scum; I don't see any real reason to question him at that point.

[Crazy]

@Tajo:

- Why did you opt to lynch DTM instead of SpyreX before charter's death? The guy had just lynched a scum; I don't see any real reason to question him at that point.

Who is the guy that lynched a scum? DTM?

Yeh, that was poorly worded. I meant charter.

[Crazy]

Well, I never wanted to lynch charter. I dont understand your question.

Sorry. Why did you want to lynch DTM instead of SpyreX even though Charter got a guilty result on SpyreX? Charter had already led the wagon on Mariyta-scum, so why not trust Charter again? This is in reference to before Charter's death.

[Crazy]

Yos has a point... Charter's role was obviously not a normal "Paranoid Cop," so the paranoid could mean something else, since this is a somewhat bastardly game.

I'll take a gamble that Charter did actually know SpyreX was scum.

Unvote
Vote SpyreX

[Crazy]

If Charter had an inclination that Mariyta was the one that poisoned IH, then that's too specific for him to be a regular paranoid cop. I'm not sure if distorter = poisoner or not, but it's clear he wasn't a standard cop.

SpyreX's claim is very hard to believe for me, but I don't see any downside to keeping him alive for now, since he could further prove his claim, and we can always lynch him later.

Unvote
Vote DTM

FoS: Tajo

[Crazy]

-Crazy unvoted you, and resumed a case on DTM, How does that make him scummy? He also said that charters case on you is null, considering charters alignment. If you flip scum, i would lynch Crazy next.

Not me. Tajo. I resumed my vote on SpyreX before his claim, and Tajo was fighting against SpyreX's lynch before charter's death when there was no real reason to do so.

Also, I have reason to believe that Kai actually was town/miller. Because the mafia were labeled in red font color, and the lyncher was blue. Wouldn't a Cult Leader/Recruiter be a different faction/color?

Kai's name is also red. I assume anti-town = red, pro-town = green, neutral = blue.

[Crazy]

Can you explain this for me? Do you mean that he could go into greater detail into his claim? Or what? Sorry, it's a minuscule question, would just like a little clarification.

Through his further night actions and results. Not saying that it will lead to anything, but if we think both SpyreX and DTM are scum, and SpyreX is a power role, and DTM is at best a vanilla townie, it's probably best to go at DTM for now.

[Crazy]

I'm not sure, I would still like to hear others opinions on this.

His name is RED; I'd assume mafia before I'd assume town.

[Crazy]

So, after night actions/results, if we think that Spyre and DTM are scum, and Spyre is a power role, (Power role scum?) And DTM is at best a VT ( Like he said himself?).

SpyreX is either a town power role or scum.
DTM is either a vanilla townie or scum.

They're both likely to be scum, but there's less risk involved with lynching DTM.

But isn't a Cult a completely different faction from mafia? What does he recruit them for to? Just the regular mafia team? I was under the impression that in games with a mafia team, and a cult recruiter/leader, there was 2-3 on the Mafia team, and one player on cult team, and he gained a new player each night.

Yes, cults and mafia are different factions. My assumption would be that the mod uses red for any anti-town factions. If that's not the case, we'd have to assume a false reveal, which seems like a silly thing to assume without any evidence.

[Crazy]

Except that he claimed miller.

So he probably lied so he wouldn't get investigated. I don't see why a "very scummy townie" would flip as a cultist.

[Crazy]

@Tajo - The issue I have with you is not about you refusing to vote SpyreX after charter's death; it's that you refused to vote SpyreX BEFORE!

[Crazy]

No, I'm not happy with that answer.

You had no inclination that charter would flip as a paranoid cop before he died. Charter had already investigated and lynched Mariyta-scum; there really was no reason not to trust him at that point.

Now, perhaps. But then, the only reasons you could make to go against the SpyreX wagon would be pure speculation.

[Crazy]

Going back to SpyreX's claim:

Each night I send in a player and a role (role AND alignment). If I am right I get "powers" for the next night.

Now, I assumed that this meant something only if I got it "totally" right but that isn't true.

How did you learn that you get an ability even if you're not "totally" right? You don't know if your hider ability was real or not, right?

I put it in at night, get the power at daybreakish (he's not the most precise) to, apparently, use the next night.

I put in Vanilla Town on Volkan and got the ability to hide.
I put in Mafia Goon on DTM on got the ability to watch.

As Volkan wasn't Vanilla Town either I'm getting a weaker power OR I'm getting fake ass powers.

Where did you get the bit about weaker/stronger powers? In your Role PM or did you assume that?

Are all your powers cumulative, and can you use any number of them on the same night in addition to trying to get a new power?

***

@tajo:

Asking SpyreX to be vigged furthers my point, actually, that you know something. What's the difference if SpyreX is lynched or vigged? If you asked for SpyreX to be vigged, clearly you wanted him to die. But then why not just lynch him?

[Crazy]

From getting a power (and I was hoping that the power itself would be a gauge).

It helps a little even with a partial though. DTM is either: Vanilla, Mafia or a Mafia Goon and watching > hiding. He is NOT a Town PR.

*blink*

You're ignoring the possibility that the power was

fake

, which earlier you clearly said was a possibility.

And even though logic says you should keep claimed power roles alive, I just can't believe you any more. There's just too much confusion with your claim. A town power role isn't going to give so much room for all those conjectures.

Unvote, Vote SpyreX

(I also would believe that distorter = poisoner before I believed that charter lied about detecting poison. Mariyta would have been lynched anyway even if he had claimed solid daycop; there was no need to lie.)

[Crazy]

I'm trying to follow the process through. I got "something" and from my information I would assume that, fake or not, that means I got a hit.

Earlier you said:

I put in Volkan as Vanilla Town. I got a power.
Volkan was Town Doc, not Vanilla Town.
Thus, I am "half" right.
That, when combined with the fact I got a power means a.) either the power is fake or b.) I got a power when I wasn't right.

There you acknowledged the possibility of your power being fake because your investigation was wrong, yes?

[Crazy]

Crazy, do you believe that DTMaster and SpyreX are the only people that are going to be lynched today? Do you think that both lynches are of equal value?

Yes to the first question. I find it very unlikely that someone other than SpyreX or DTM is going to be lynched today.

Now I don't think the lynches are of equal value. I think SpyreX has about a 98% chance of being scum, which means that DTM is probably just freaked town (unless if SpyreX is from another faction not associated with Mariyta).

SpyreX's claim just has too many holes in it. Fake abilities, half-right investigations, and abilities being "better" than others; these are all things that he just ASSUMED, that didn't actually come from his role PM. What kind of townie is going to assume all that crap instead of just using Occam's Razor?

[Crazy]

Did you ask the mod anything about your role, SpyreX?

[Crazy]

Crazy, when did DTMaster become "freaked Town" IYO?

It's more that SpyreX being scum makes DTM less likely to be scum.

[Crazy]

Crazy, when did DTMaster become "freaked Town" IYO?

It's more that SpyreX being scum makes DTM less likely to be scum.

How so?

I'd be surprised if either one was town. They're probably both scum.

I was thinking that they were unlikely to be scum together because DTM flipping Vanilla Townie would support SpyreX's claim, and it would also justify why SpyreX is posting all this "half-right; vanilla=goon" stuff.

I just realized that he would also be "half-right" if DTM was a scum power role, ugh. So it could be a bus, as well.

[Crazy]

I was thinking that they were unlikely to be scum together because DTM flipping Vanilla Townie would support SpyreX's claim, and it would also justify why SpyreX is posting all this "half-right; vanilla=goon" stuff.

I just realized that he would also be "half-right" if DTM was a scum power role, ugh. So it could be a bus, as well.

Not...really.

If we lynch DTM and he flips, say, mafia goon, then I imagineSpyreX just says "Ok, so I guess that power I got yesterday is what I get if I guess right." (shrug)

SpyreX's claim isn't really coherent enough to prove or disprove like that.

Yeah, I was just thinking that SpyreX wouldn't be messing with all this "half-right" stuff if he knew that DTM was a Mafia Goon. Then he could have made a simpler claim that made more sense.

[Crazy]

Just clarification on what I needed to send in as a "role".

Okay, then you're making way too many assumptions without even asking the mod first.

Vi, do you have an issue with me going back and forth between the wagons?

[Crazy]

The reason I've been changing my vote is because I've constantly changed my mind. It's not that I don't care who gets lynched; on the contrary, it's that I do care.

DTM, at first I agreed with your thing about keeping SpyreX alive, since then I've grown to be almost certain that SpyreX is scum, that I think that keeping him alive on the very off-chance that he's town is pretty useless.

Also, DTM is further convincing me that he is town, mainly because he's trying to keep SpyreX alive.


***

For a summary of my "vote-hopping."

-I voted SpyreX because charter said he investigated guilty on him.
-I changed my vote to DTM once charter flipped as a paranoid cop.
-I changed my vote back to SpyreX once Yos pointed out that charter indeed couldn't have been a normal "paranoid cop."
-I changed my vote back to DTM once SpyreX claimed and I thought he could be helpful to the town if he was indeed a town power role, so that was worth keeping him alive.
-I changed my vote back to SpyreX after his role started to make no sense at all.

I'm not going to change my vote back to DTM. If I change it at all the rest of the day (unlikely), it will be to someone else.

[Crazy]

Crazy, what do you think about Benmage?

That somehow he got a post restriction...?

[Crazy]

I'd rather lynch SpyreX first and only lynch DTM if SpyreX was town. (And just assume that Goon =/= Vanilla.)

The reasoning is that I'm almost positive that SpyreX is scum, but I'm leaning town for DTM.

@Vi

- Do you have something specific you want me to comment on regarding Benmage? Apparantly I'm not good at reading post restrictions.

[Crazy]

@random, I think you are scummy because your overall play. Your votes and who you have chosen to vote. the fact you voted charter until it was obvious that Mari was going to hang.......

ugh.

was going to go back and pull that quote about "would you rather I not contribute"...then noted that it was directed at Geiff...which lead me to reread Geiff....given that exchange, and the fact Geiff flipped scum...I dont know now....not as scummy.

unvote.

I think you are slightly scummy, but not enough to deserve a vote.

I dont like either lynch today...I also dont Crazy's "I want to lynch Spy first, and if he is town, then we lynch DTM" post.

what if they are both town? what does that tell you?

I meant I'd prefer that rather than DTM lynched first and the SpyreX lynched if DTM was town, since DTM is far more likely to be town than SpyreX.

I said that because I'm almost completely positive that SpyreX is scum. Keeping him alive for one more day just seems pointless. Charter the not-a-typical-paranoid-cop got a guilty on him, and his role claim makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. He's scum.

[Crazy]

Am I the lady, or is CKD?

[Crazy]

To me it sounds like SpyreX is now just trying to take a mislynch down with him.

just seems to me that if Spy was lying...there has got to be a better claim.

Over-creative scum syndrome. Once as scum I claimed Kleptomaniac; each night I would be forced to steal an item from another player; this would both roleblock them and make me die under their role name if I died that night or the following day. Naturally, I was lynched the very day that I claimed that. I'm thinking a similar case with SpyreX.

[Crazy]

I can't account for IH, but I'm playing with Zazie in two other ongoing games, and she's MIA in those games, too. Which means she's not purposefully lurking, at least.

[Crazy]

Frankly, I don't see how the DTM flip could prove

anything

about Spyrex. With a possible exception if he flips mafia goon, it won't factor in my opinion on Spyrex.

I agree. Either SpyreX is just trying to get a last desparate mislynch, or it could possibly be a bus (as Yos pointed out.)

[Crazy]

One thing about DTM, without his vote, even if he's scum, he doesn't count for a mafia majority in lylo. A townie could hypothetically win a 2-person endgame against DTM-scum. Lynching him is rather pointless, isn't it?

[Crazy]

Why would lynching someone ever be pointless? If he is scum and has some other ability, then its not pointless.

I didn't consider this. Which means we should only ever lynch him in case he becomes obvscum. (90% probability or higher)

[Crazy]

Why would lynching someone ever be pointless? If he is scum and has some other ability, then its not pointless.

I didn't consider this. Which means we should only ever lynch him in case he becomes obvscum. (90% probability or higher)

Are you a cop? Thats the only way I am 90 percent sure of anything in a game of mafia. Heck this is a bastard game, I am not sure I would ever be 90 percent sure of anything.

I'm at least 90% sure that SpyreX is scum.

[Crazy]

Bonus fact for Crazy:
You said that scum-DT loses a 2-person endgame, right?
By the same token Town-DT loses a 3-person endgame.
In other words, unless DT is a power role he is effectively already dead.

Yes, I realize that. That doesn't change my point, though.

[Crazy]

Well, obviously in lylo if we thought he's the only scum left alive, we should lynch him.

Eh, you're probably right about the vig being the best option.

However, he still could be useful as town to provide insight/whatever.

[Crazy]

@Crazy
That defense of me is extremely poor. Exploiting my lack of vote is a giant gamble and relies on one thing: that on the last day with 1 town and 1 scum that the last scum is scum-DTM and town wins. If you assume that I am scum why are you holding back on voting me and waiting till lylo.

Vi raises a strong point against that as well, I cause town to auto lose in a 3 town v 2 scum if I'm town-DTM.

You're using faulty logic. The only way you'd be useful as scum is in the case that all your other buddies are dead. As town, you'd be a treestump, and function as a dead townie in determining lylo situations.

Lynching a dead townie is a waste of a lynch. So unless if we think all your buddies are dead, or that you are almost certainly scum, I don't see a point in lynching you.

[Crazy]

I didn't bring up the original case, I questioned your idea that we should leave the cult alone with that wiki reference but I was corrected to the standards of balance by Vi. You are twisting my words here. Quote me on this please if I'm wrong but I think you are mixing me with Crazy/Spyrex here.

When did I mention anything about a cult?

[Crazy]

A townie giving up is one thing. A townie that is able to parse his play, build a case on himself as scum and vote for himself requires a level of cognitive dissonance that just doesn't add up.

Wow...

Can we just lynch SpyreX now?

[Crazy]

So you're saying that building a case on yourself being scum makes perfect sense as town?

Awesome.

Doubly so considering your flip on DTM.

Does building a case on yourself make any sense as scum either?

There are a lot of things that don't make sense as town. Putting "ASPARAGUS" at the end of every post doesn't make sense as town. But does that mean it's scummy?

[Crazy]

People voting Spyrex, what is your current opinion on dtmaster?

Slightly leaning town.

[Crazy]

Crazy and Vi, did you think at some point that dtmaster was scum? If so what made you change your mind about him?

I thought he was scum near the beginning of today, mainly for his reactions to the Mariyta-wagon.

However, I find it pro-town that he's against the SpyreX wagon. I don't agree with him, but I find that pro-town.

[Crazy]

Crazy and Vi, did you think at some point that dtmaster was scum? If so what made you change your mind about him?

I thought he was scum near the beginning of today, mainly for his reactions to the Mariyta-wagon.

However, I find it pro-town that he's against the SpyreX wagon. I don't agree with him, but I find that pro-town.

He's against the Spyrex wagon? Where?

He wanted to keep SpyreX alive so he could investigate as a sane cop with stuff like "Town Batmobile" or stuffz.

Which makes sense. Only thing I'm so dead sure SpyreX is scum that I don't really care about what if he's town, because he's not.

[Crazy]

@Crazy

Nik was the one who originally wanted to test the Town Batmobile idea. I wanted to see if Spyrex actually can watch at night to confirm that wrong guesses would lead to failed results.

The whole claim mess makes it impossible to test since there are so many loop holes in the claim that my whole "lie detector" test/idea cannot work. As well we do not know if there is a RBer to block town-Spy if he is telling the truth.

Okay, I confused it for a second, then. Still, you were pushing to keep SpyreX alive for a while.

I still think SpyreX should be lynched today, especially since we're facing deadline. Survivor claims are almost always lynched, and this is the same situation. SpyreX is neutral at best, scum at worst, so he needs to die. Sorry.

[Crazy]

I recommend we look at RL right now while there is still time before deadline.

Deadline hits in less than 24 hours, I believe.

[Crazy]

DTM, SpyreX is not pro-town. And since he's already a leading wagon, the best course of action is to lynch him. 3rd-party claims are almost always lynched, and there's a reason.

[Crazy]

I searched for what a Bookie was; I found this page:

http://randomness.talonz.com/werewiki/index.php/Bookie

The role listed there is over-complex, but I'm certain SpyreX's role is relatively the same as that (just guessing the lynch instead of the NK), since that's pretty much a combination of the two roles that he claimed.

I've been lazy the past few days, so I didn't reread or anything.

Vote: Nikanor

for now.

[Crazy]

Actually, I'd guess that the part about choosing alignment is not very likely to be part of SpyreX's role.

That link came from a site that plays quite mafia quite differently than we play here. We certainly can't assume that SpyreX's role follows that wiki page to the bone.

[Crazy]

Now that Nikanor's dead, my scumlist is kind of empty.

I remember that CKD bugged me a little, but I don't remember why. I gotta look back for more info.

[Crazy]

Yeah, I missed Vi's post.

Which means that unless Vi is scum (which is very, very, unlikely), then ckd is confirmed town.

I think Tajo's response was a bit off. Tajo, how would scum know about any "bonus abilities?"

[Crazy]

Tajo is almost certainly town, based on his ability claim, but it should be tested nonetheless. I just remembered that he was one of his suspects, but meh.

I just read randomlunatic in isolation, and I see your guys' point. He even voted charter; I never noticed that before.

I gotta look into other people, though. I will do so, later.

[Crazy]

-Not sure if you answered this yet, hopefully I will see it soon. But I don't see how that's pro-town, at least considering the flip.

I was assuming that it was very unlikely that SpyreX and DTM were scum together, and thus I was debating the circumstance that DTM was scum and SpyreX was town.

Personally I think Yos is the most likely cult recruit. vote: Yos

Quite a few people have said this, and I'm not sure why. Can someone show me the case?

If there's one more mafia member, I could see randomlunatic... since he's one of only two alive that was on the charter wagon (DTM is the other), as far as I can see.

[Crazy]

-Not sure if you answered this yet, hopefully I will see it soon. But I don't see how that's pro-town, at least considering the flip.

I was assuming that it was very unlikely that SpyreX and DTM were scum together, and thus I was debating the circumstance that DTM was scum and SpyreX was town.

But wouldn't that day make sense if they were both scum-scum? And quite obvious as to why DTM would want to keep spyre alive for another day.

But is SpyreX bussing DTM that likely? I don't think so. Especially when SpyreX was making up the whole half-right stuff i.e. Goon might = Vanilla, etc., that really seems like he was expecting DTM to flip vanilla townie.

[Crazy]

He gave himself enough wiggle room that either way he flipped, be it VT, or Goon he would of had an excuse. I bet if we had lynched DTM and he flipped goon, we would have probably thought Spyre as town. Not sure, it's all WIFOM, and "What if" scenarios.

Yes, and all this wiggle room he gave to himself was what made him look like scum. If he and DTM were scum together, then he'd know that DTM was scum and wouldn't have to give all that wiggle room.

[Crazy]

I agree; random is a pretty good wagon.

But nobody hammer. Tajo is the one that needs to end this day.

[Crazy]

BC, what makes random any better than Sajin?

[Crazy]

"Without any reasoning" is wounding.

What is the reasoning? I still don't know what it is.

[Crazy]

What's up with people ending the day with no claim?

A weak claim like Spyrex's can seal her fate.

A good claim, benmagish level, could save her.

A so-so claim, that can be confirmed with a lynch, could explain many things when trying to bring sense to role actions near massclaim.

'Cuz random completely disappeared, I guess. And it seems pointless to wait for a replacement when we'd probably just lynch him anyway.

[Crazy]

I looked back on Sajin and randomlunatic and I'd still prefer a randomlunatic lynch. Indeed, Sajin's not great, but I think randomlunatic is worse.

[Crazy]

Oh nice.

Porochaz, dont even read. Claim or die.

Yeah.

[Crazy]

I have no idea what Prozac means by the most suspicious death. If it matters that I say anything, I'll go with charter's death, since that was almost definitely made by scum.

[Crazy]

So to clarify please tell me, not who you are most suspicous of in death, thats proven to be a varied answer, who's role suprised you most.

And really thats all I have to say on the basis of this for the moment. Please, all who enter, answer this question.

So like who didn't flip like we thought they would? I'd say tubby.

And yeah, I'd also like a full-claim later.

[Crazy]

What a weird way to go about that.

Why not just have everybody post, "I am pro-town," and then you investigate one of us.

And for the record, I am pro-town.

[Crazy]

Meh if you say so.

Well, I don't really understand what you were doing.

How would knowing if, say, whether Kairyuu was a Cultist or not really help us?

[Crazy]

Since this isn't a Tarhalindur game, I fully expect that any past bastardliness can be rectified by lynching present scum.

I share the Town Win Condition.
Continue.

wtf? Are we doing a mass claim or something?

Just a mass alignment claim, since Prozac's a lie detector.

[Crazy]

I win with the rest of the town, and I do not have any other win condition.

[Crazy]

You shouldn't investigate Vi, ckd, Tajo, or Benmage, since they're basically confirmed. (Tajo's not, but we'll be able to tell as soon as he tests his ability.)

Or Vi or Benmage could be 3rd party, but that's rather unlikely.

[Crazy]

Spider senses tell me scum delay tactics to try and discredit popular's power. :<

I doubt it; he could always just use it tomorrow, right? And if he ever refuses, we just lynch him.

[Crazy]

I wouldn't normally support a wagon of such a chronic lurker, but I don't like how Maemuki jumped out as soon as her name was mentioned, despite having not posted before that for a couple weeks.

And I agree about Yos' plan. There's really no point in lynching Prozac today. I have a hunch he's scum, but it's not a SpyreX-level hunch, so I'll leave it alone for now.

Vote: Maemuki

[Crazy]

I'm guessing that RL investigated Mariyta to see whether charter was telling the truth or not. It's believable... not the best decision probably, although I don't recall off the top of my head anyone specifically saying they were pro-town during Day 1.

[Crazy]

Look at Maemuki's post history in this game, compare it to her post history on site, and tell me again that you'd rather lynch Sajin.

[Crazy]

Okay, yeah, Yos is scum. Probably Cult after all.

[Crazy]

As for me, I'd prefer that Yos was just vigged, rather than go through this roleblocking speculation.

[Crazy]

I'm going to trust Tajo with this one and just assume that he knows something that we don't.

Vote: Porochaz

[Crazy]

You paying attention? I'm already dead. I'm trying to figure out what's going on so the town will be able to evaluate Vi's alignment after I'm gone.

I wasn't sure if Benmage had sent in the kill already or not.

[Crazy]

Maemuki, investigate Porochaz.

I thought you said that you knew Prozac was scum?

Then shouldn't Maemuki investigate someone else?

[Crazy]

Im trying to find his sanity since Poro is scum.

Oh, okay. No objection then.

[Crazy]

So Yos wasn't killed yet?

[Crazy]

Okay, now DTM's confirmed. Cool.

And with Prozac that's 6 dead mafia. I'm thinking that's probably the whole scumteam.

@Maemuki - Did you get a chance to investigate yesterday?

[Crazy]

OMG, I just realized from Mystery Mafia 2 that a Screwball is someone who can choose how people reveal upon death.

That made me think of charter, but at this point it really doesn't matter.

Unfortunately, that still doesn't account for Vi's roleblock. If it did, then we could just No Lynch and run away with this.

I think Maemuki is the scummiest player still alive by far.

But, as always, we have Benmage kill before we lynch, right?

[Crazy]

I dont think Vi was roleblocked.

It's more likely that Yos got vengeful powers but he didnt know until he got lynched.

Bad, BM, bad.

Oh yeah, I don't know why that didn't occur to me.

Vote: No Lynch

then.

[Crazy]

I'm vanilla.

And BC already claimed to be a 1-shot NK Immune Townie.

And since it seems the only faction left is a cult that can't recruit, why don't we just No Lynch until Vi confirms a scum or a whole bunch of town?

[Crazy]

I was thinking that we wouldn't be able to kill all unconfirmeds without no-lynching, but I guess I just can't do math.

2 people are absolutely 100% confirmed: Tajo and DTM, yes? Tomorrow we'll get a 3rd person confirmed. (or just lynch scum by then.)

Scum-hunting is pretty pointless, then, because we won whatever happens.

So now it's Benmage's turn to kill.

[Crazy]

Okay, then. And yeah, I think I can buy Maemuki as likely town. But it doesn't really matter.

So I suppose:

-Benmage kills Cass.
-If Cass isn't scum, then we lynch BC.
-If BC isn't scum, then Vi gives a bonus to either Maemuki or Benmage. Then we lynch/kill accordingly.

[Crazy]

wait, what am I missing that you can believe Mae as town when we have two day cop claims?

Just a gut feeling. Does it matter, seriously?

Okay, then. And yeah, I think I can buy Maemuki as likely town. But it doesn't really matter.

So I suppose:

-Benmage kills Cass.
-If Cass isn't scum, then we lynch BC.
-If BC isn't scum, then Vi gives a bonus to either Maemuki or Benmage. Then we lynch/kill accordingly.

and where do you fit into this equation?

I'm confirmed, dude.

[Crazy]

also, just a thought...how do you know Benmage is a vig and not a SK?

We don't know that. He's one of the 4 unconfirmed.

[Crazy]

Checking Benmage's posts in other threads, it appears he's V/LA until tomorrow.

*shrug*

[Crazy]

Unlynchable, wow.

Vote: BloodCovenant

Let's get this game done with.

[Crazy]

If we were going to No Lynch, I don't see why we killed Cass...

Ah well, it doesn't matter.

Unvote
Vote No Lynch

[Crazy]

Well, it can't hurt.

Unvote, Vote Battle Mage

[Crazy]

Note: Check your PM's, what is your win condition?

I want to know everyone's win condition.

I'll let Maemuki answer first... since she, you, and Benmage are the only ones unconfirmed... and Benmage can't exactly say it.

[Crazy]

Lol, so out of E-Badger, Nikanor, and randomlunatic, Nikanor was the only one that was

actually

scum with Mariyta!

So charter, that was just a gambit saying that Mariyta poisoned IH? Were you

actually

paranoid or was that a post restriction or something?