Battle Mafia: Game Over

[curiouskarmadog]

is a distorter a redirector?

DTM, have you ever been in a game where someone claimed like this unprovoked for no reason? if so, how did it work out for that person? If no, why are you doing it now and how is it protown?

[curiouskarmadog]

and again, i cant find a distorter in the wiki...can someone please tell me what they do.

[DTMaster]

@Vi

Oh forgot to comment. "its" refer to lynching. So my sentence should say, your choice should be simple.

[Crazy]

@Crazy
Charter was very specific about lynching SpyreX and not viging him. I'm confused since Mariya was the redirector. Plus, even being a paranoid cop he had a good scum nose on Mari, and EB. Maybe Gieff(not sure about this one but for sure on the first two. I can't reread right now to confirm)

I wouldn't count out this information yet, paranoid cop or not.

FoS: Crazy for discounting Charter so easily.

I'm thinking Mariyta might have been a fluke. E-Badger was scummy because of his associations with Mariyta (same with you and Nikanor.) Same with cicero, though it turned out he wasn't protecting Mariyta, just trying to lynch someone else.

Charter was a paranoid cop. He probably wanted to lynch SpyreX because he got a guilty on him.

And you voted charter earlier, and you blame me for discounting his opinions after he's revealed as paranoid?

[ZazieR]

here. Finally have some time again ._.
Get to this during the weekend.

[SpyreX]

I'm absolutely confused by a.) charters declaration against me and b.) his flip considering how yesterday went down and the fact he said I wasn't scum but is a paranoid cop - which implies that either he was a.) making it all up or b.) doubted his own result but had some kinda "mysterious reasons" for me being bad to vig but ok to lynch?

Needless to say as far as I know the world wouldn't collapse if I was vigged. And I'm not scum. So...

Teach me to be gone for a day I guess?

[Yosarian2]

I have a hunch that charter wasn't a normal "paranoid cop". If he was, then what was all that stuff about how Marytia poisoned someone? He wouldn't have gotten information that specific from a normal cop investigation. Plus, his turn on SpyreX was really, really sudden; if it was based on an investigation, it would have had to be a day investigation. Plus, I don't really think charter-cop would investigate SpyreX there, he had several bigger suspectects.

This being a bastard mod game and all, I think charter was very likely some other kind of information role that just happened to have the role name "paranoid cop".

Unvote

Vote:SpyreX

Although I still wouldn't mind a DT lynch today either.

[populartajo]

Yeah, charter flip shows once again that nothing can be taken at face value here. Good luck Maryita was scum there. Spyrex very obvious guilty result should be treated as null. And charter kill was obv not made by Spyrex. Im very sure that it was made for someone that wanted charter death to pursue Spyrex lynch.

I really dont see any reason to keep DTMaster alive. His last Crazy attack is total BS.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, charter flip shows once again that nothing can be taken at face value here. Good luck Maryita was scum there. Spyrex very obvious guilty result should be treated as null. And charter kill was obv not made by Spyrex. Im very sure that it was made for someone that wanted charter death to pursue Spyrex lynch.

Or by a scum that thought charter was a confirmed innocent pro-town information power role who needed to die ASAP.

[populartajo]

I have a hunch that charter wasn't a normal "paranoid cop". If he was, then what was all that stuff about how Marytia poisoned someone? He wouldn't have gotten information that specific from a normal cop investigation. Plus, his turn on SpyreX was really, really sudden; if it was based on an investigation, it would have had to be a day investigation. Plus, I don't really think charter-cop would investigate SpyreX there, he had several bigger suspectects.

This being a bastard mod game and all, I think charter was very likely some other kind of information role that just happened to have the role name "paranoid cop".

Unvote

Vote:SpyreX

Although I still wouldn't mind a DT lynch today either.

Im thinking that charter got a guilty result on Maryita and used the poisoning as a way to not show that he was a cop. Which also would explain why Maryita was very confused in why charter was accusing her of poisoning IH. In some posts, it seems that she is not fighting that she is scum, she is fighting that she didnt poison IH.

Day investigations are also possible considering that this game has a lot of interactions during day and the fact that charter attaked Maryita in the middle of the day. Your "only a role name" hypothesis might have a point, basically for the fact that charter did target Spyrex when some better suspects were still alive. But I think its more likely that charter is only a day paranoid cop, got a guilty on Maryta (faked the poisoning thing so that people didnt think he was a cop) then got a guilty on Spyrex and started going crazy for the fact that he thought he got two guilty on a row. And I dont even need to explain that Spyrex killing charter without knowing he was a paranoid cop would have been pretty much suicide.

That said, I think some Spyrex hate is deserved. His last post doesnt give me pause either and Im very intrigued in why I dont get the Spyrex obvtown read I always get from him. I asked for a scumlist, also.

[populartajo]

Yeah, charter flip shows once again that nothing can be taken at face value here. Good luck Maryita was scum there. Spyrex very obvious guilty result should be treated as null. And charter kill was obv not made by Spyrex. Im very sure that it was made for someone that wanted charter death to pursue Spyrex lynch.

Or by a scum that thought charter was a confirmed innocent pro-town information power role who needed to die ASAP.

In that case, I think he should have been killed at night or very early at the day.

But yeah, thats also a probability. I think my idea is slightly more likely.

[populartajo]

I have a hunch that charter wasn't a normal "paranoid cop". If he was, then what was all that stuff about how Marytia poisoned someone? He wouldn't have gotten information that specific from a normal cop investigation. Plus, his turn on SpyreX was really, really sudden; if it was based on an investigation, it would have had to be a day investigation. Plus, I don't really think charter-cop would investigate SpyreX there, he had several bigger suspectects.

This being a bastard mod game and all, I think charter was very likely some other kind of information role that just happened to have the role name "paranoid cop".

Unvote

Vote:SpyreX

Although I still wouldn't mind a DT lynch today either.

Also Yos, is that the only reason why are voting Spyrex?

[Yosarian2]

And I dont even need to explain that Spyrex killing charter without knowing he was a paranoid cop would have been pretty much suicide.

If charter had not been daykilled, I'm pretty sure Spyrex lynch would have been inevitable anyway.

Think about this. You're scum. You see one person who's not in your scum group and who you think is pro-town claim a guilty on someone else who's not in your scum group and you think is pro-town. What do you do?

Personally, I'd let the town follow the claimed info role into a mislynch, then use that mislynch to go after the claimed info role the next day.

Neah. Only way I think the charter kill makes sense is either if A: it was scum who knew Charter was right and a pro-town info role and just wanted him dead dead dead right away before he could investigate again, or B: if it was made by a SK or someone in a different scumgroup who was just assuming Charter was right and a pro-town info role and therefore wanted him dead dead dead.

[Crazy]

@Tajo:

- Why did you opt to lynch DTM instead of SpyreX before charter's death? The guy had just lynched a scum; I don't see any real reason to question him at that point.

[populartajo]

@Tajo:

- Why did you opt to lynch DTM instead of SpyreX before charter's death? The guy had just lynched a scum; I don't see any real reason to question him at that point.

Who is the guy that lynched a scum? DTM?

[Crazy]

@Tajo:

- Why did you opt to lynch DTM instead of SpyreX before charter's death? The guy had just lynched a scum; I don't see any real reason to question him at that point.

Who is the guy that lynched a scum? DTM?

Yeh, that was poorly worded. I meant charter.

[populartajo]

Well, I never wanted to lynch charter. I dont understand your question.

[Crazy]

Well, I never wanted to lynch charter. I dont understand your question.

Sorry. Why did you want to lynch DTM instead of SpyreX even though Charter got a guilty result on SpyreX? Charter had already led the wagon on Mariyta-scum, so why not trust Charter again? This is in reference to before Charter's death.

[populartajo]

Well, I never wanted to lynch charter. I dont understand your question.

Sorry. Why did you want to lynch DTM instead of SpyreX even though Charter got a guilty result on SpyreX? Charter had already led the wagon on Mariyta-scum, so why not trust Charter again? This is in reference to before Charter's death.

My DTmaster scumread is stronger than my gutsy Spyrex read.

And this being a bm game, I still think not all things should be taken at face value. Yes, the guy had a guilty result and he was proven information role but first he was not confirmed town and second there could have happened a lot of things that you should always take into account. His flip is the best proof.

How is that scumlist going, Crazy?

[Vi]

Nikanor strikes me for saying some suspiciously one-dimensional things inthread, for instance--

A lyncher is the

only

explaination for your question.
His Appeal to Fear also fits this conclusion.

You bolded the wrong thing. I'll fix it for you:

Why the heck would charter say he knew Mariyta was scum if he was lying?

A lyncher is the only explaination

for your question

.
His Appeal to Fear also fits this conclusion.

Stop misrepresenting what I said, please.

I acknowledge that I misrepresented here. (not intentionally)
With that said, may I ask why you thought charter was a Lyncher, and not whatever he was?

In retrospect, the idea of a Town Poisoner who didn't have the sense to claim immediately and didn't have enough sense to wait for a decent target... makes little sense.

It's day two with eight people dead. It has been proven through Mariyta's flip that charter was (at least) incorrect, unless the distorter has a poisoning ability. DTM has come out at the start of day two with a claim and a self-vote.
Don't tell me you are still thinking this game makes sense?

I do. The people in this game don't make sense.

While these are all things that charter did, this ignores that there were a lot of people at the time - myself included - who really had no problem with all of that. Nikanor didn't question any of them.

Just because everyone else took charter's claim unquestioningly doesn't mean I have to do the same. Just because you disagree with me about something looking scummy doesn't mean you yourself are scummy.

You don't have to find someone scummy to question them, Nikanor.
On that note, I'm looking forward to your next post.

And this is a complete 180 considering 542 was one of charter's posts. If the wagon is inevitable, why wait to vote/hammer? Why express opposition in one sentence and then support in the next?

I meant that I would rather have my vote on charter than on Mariyta, but that I would hammer and end the day if required.

What's the point of that, pragmatically speaking?

[craplogic]Then there's how Mariyta claimed to have Distorted Nikanor just before charter got his message.
Mariyta said she never lied. Just for kicks, I'm tempted to believe her and suggest that Nikanor did it.[/craplogic]

Craplogic is a correct term for it.
a) Mariyta claimed to have distorted CKD just before charter got his message, not Nikanor.
b) If you are inclined to believe both Mariyta and charter's claims, your second point about me being the culprit is impossible, since Mariyta claimed her distortion two days after the poisoning.

Noted that I am bad at history and should apologize here.

----

Charter - Paranoid Cop, Shot, Day 2

...Wait, now it all makes sense!
Paranoid wasn't necessarily his sanity, it was a post restriction!

Crazy, why did you immediately jump off SpyreX after charter's death? I'm still trying to find out why people are in such a hurry to discredit charter. How does a nonrandom Cop get a "fluke" investigation? See Yos2 637.

Intuition is helpful, but I personally see that you need more then that to convince the town. That is where evidence comes in. (etc.)

When did I become your agent? I'm not here to defend you.

Unvote: Nikanor
Vote: SpyreX

(L-4)

[SpyreX]

Going out to the movies with the wife.

You will get an actual synopsis tomorrow / tonight depending.

Further, Charter's flip and what has happened do NOT make sense. I am not scum. Even more importantly I am not some kinda voodoo role that bad things happen if I'm dayvig'd.

His statements do NOT mesh with a cop flip and this needs to be figured out.

So don't do anything awesome like, ya know, hang me in the interm.

[DTMaster]

More general responses.

@Town
My bad it should be distorter. I'm in another game and we're talking about redirectors, and I'm confusing the two. Still does anyone have experience with them? /echoing CKD

@CKD
Yes and both happened in an ongoing game. Let's just say after the results of the day one is now considered full pro-town and one is considered scummy. I cannot say any more but you can find the game in my wiki.

@Crazy
Explain this?

I'd like to make this perfectly clear.

IF YOU ARE A VIG, DO NOT SHOOT SPYREX!

Clearly something bad will happen to you if you do.

It's an information claim like charter's:

Vote: Randomlunatic

The hell?

Obviously RL is scum as well, but right now we're lynching Maryita.

I got a message saying that she poisoned IH after he got saved. Obviously this was the work of scum, not town. ARE YOU ALL FREAKING HAPPY NOW?

Since I spoke of this, I don't get this luxury again, but I figured it was worth it before idiots (RandomLunatic and ElectricBadger) spun this on me.

OBVIOUSLY I HAD INFO ON WHO THE SCUM WAS. DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT SOMEONE WHO MAKES THREE POSTS IN THE GAME, ALL SAYING "LYNCH THIS PERSON" IS SCUM? NO, THEY AREN'T THAT OBVIOUS.

Randomlunatic and EB have earned themselves lynches after Maryita.

Lynch Please.

Though the underlined part scratches my head. :s It's also different because charter claimed:

I am sure she is scum. Vig away for all I care, we can lynch EB or cicero if someone can dayvig her.

Remember the entire issue with charter back in day 1? It wasn't a cop claim it was an information claim he had. There is no reason for charter to lie about this.

If you analyze Charter's vote pattern he goes:

RVS rote on Spyrex then real vote on Mariyta. Then the vote on tubby due to the "scum slip" then the vote on Mariyta. Unless he investigated N0, and lied about the fact he has information that Mari tried to kill IH then I don't see why.

It makes no sense to lie about this. It makes more sense to claim cop investigation, not info claim something detailed to who poisoned IH. :< if we caught it it would peg him as instant lynched.

@Tajo
What is so BSy about my attack?

You agree that charter's flip means we shouldn't consider him a normal paranoid cop. But you discount it as soon as it comes to SpyreX. Honestly read my above analysis, charter still had a good nose for scumhunting regardless of cop role. He outed 2 scum already (maybe 3) just on his play.

Also:

Im thinking that charter got a guilty result on Maryita and used the poisoning as a way to not show that he was a cop. Which also would explain why Maryita was very confused in why charter was accusing her of poisoning IH. In some posts, it seems that she is not fighting that she is scum, she is fighting that she didnt poison IH.

Makes no sense because if Maryita flipped town charter a pro-town PR (who shouldn't know his sanity) would get lynched as well for lying. He was very insistent on his info claim, see above in my response to crazy.

Then again speculating this is just WIFOM and the whole debate is just WIFOM. We cannot support nor disprove why charter did anything because he's dead. Yes I just admitted to continuing on your WIFOM debate.

@Vi
I thought we were discussing mafia theory on intuition here. :s. I didn't ask you to defend me. The original discussion was talking about intuition vs post evidence I thought.

Here was the exchange

I appreciate the partial defense, but its a biased view based on AtE stance alone. An "honest feel" means "gut feeling" which means nothing at all. :p Kinda like my "gut feeling on tubby" with the whole meta defense.

I am a sucker for AtEs. But to say that intuition means nothing is rather incorrect.

I gave my response. I don't know how I was asking you to defend me here.

Also flavor text makes sense... this is a bastard BM mod setting.

Honestly if this goes wrong just quick lynch me tomorrow. I'm trusting charter here since he's displayed more information then a normal cop would ever get. Or you can do me now and do Spyrex tomorrow. Either way works.

Unvote

Vote: SpyreX

BTW. L-3

[Benmage]

Yeah, charter flip shows once again that nothing can be taken at face value here. Good luck Maryita was scum there. Spyrex very obvious guilty result should be treated as null. And charter kill was obv not made by Spyrex. Im very sure that it was made for someone that wanted charter death to pursue Spyrex lynch.

I really dont see any reason to keep DTMaster alive. His last Crazy attack is total BS.

Although I still wouldn't mind a DT lynch today either.

My DTmaster scumread is stronger than my gutsy Spyrex read.

Honestly if this goes wrong just quick lynch me tomorrow. I'm trusting charter here since he's displayed more information then a normal cop would ever get. Or you can do me now and do Spyrex tomorrow. Either way works.

or any of these all, or all, or more

unvote vote DTMaster

[Crazy]

Yos has a point... Charter's role was obviously not a normal "Paranoid Cop," so the paranoid could mean something else, since this is a somewhat bastardly game.

I'll take a gamble that Charter did actually know SpyreX was scum.

Unvote
Vote SpyreX

[Yosarian2]

DT: What I would like to hear is some kind of explanation for why you claimed vanilla townie under no pressure, for no reason, and then voted yourself.

If you're town, claiming like that is incredibly bad for the town, for pretty obvious reasons, and I'm pretty sure you know that, so it makes me think you're scum.

Also, it makes you an even better lynch.

2. I claimed VT hence its an easy choice. VTs are sacrificial lambs who try and be useful in thread but end up getting butchered to the mob. Also they act like scapegoats for scum as meat shields.

VT's can be useful as "meat shield" (as roles that get nightkilled by the scum, or daykilled by the scum, so town power roles don't) but ONLY IF THEY DON'T CLAIM. You claiming VT basically removes most of what usefulness you had left to the town at this point.