/in-vitational 2 - Chosen, Karaoke - Game over! before 830

[hohum]

Vote: qwints

I'm not done tunneling you from Mini 773 yet, scum.

More qwints lynching please!

[hohum]

Sajin: You're obviously not aware that the chosen do not know they are chosen as such, which means you didn't get a town PM.

Unvote, Vote Sajin

I like where troll is going with this.

[hohum]

Sajin: You're obviously not aware that the chosen do not know they are chosen as such, which means you didn't get a town PM.

Unvote, Vote Sajin

I like where troll is going with this.

Where is this in the rules?

I sent a question to the mod.

*facepalm* read the town role PM, scum.

[hohum]

*facepalm again*

Nice OMGUS.

It's in the role PM that you clearly didn't get, you idiot.

You're a karaoke singer (town). Like most other karaoke singers, you think you rock at it but largely just do it to have a good time, obv. You get this weird feeling that maybe, just maybe there are a couple people out there who might be taking this karaoke thing a bit too seriously but hey, things seem to be going all right so far, right? Maybe not. You need to kill those jealous people before they start killing you or the two best singers in your group (

heh, let's face it. Maybe it's you who's one of the two best singers, but maybe not).

You win when either all of the mafia are dead, or when the only living town-aligned players are the Chosen Ones.

This is going to be a short game. More sajin lynching please.

@Sajin: please out your scum partner now.

[hohum]

also the fact that you'd rather lynch a non-chosen townie rather than scumhunt is noted.

[hohum]

There goes my attempts to be sneaky.

Please tell me what you're referring to because that statement can be interpreted in a multitude of ways.

Are you sajin's scum partner?

[hohum]

You are wrong.

You are also so obvscum that it's hilarious.

[hohum]

Troll would also like it if you would answer Troll's questions if you be willing.

Pooh doesn't see the point.

there be no need to insult.

I'm an abrasive person in-game. It helps me scum hunt. You'll get used it it eventually.

We could have allowed the other scum to walk right into the same mistake.

I'd rather conduct productive lynches rather than try and play "a perfect game" because it gives the scum less opportunity to introduce WIOFM into the town's thought processes.

Therefore, I call them as I see them. Are you on board with this?

[hohum]

Scien: The only way to properly judge NKs is with the aide of a wagon and in hindsight.

[hohum]

Troll would also like it if you would answer Troll's questions if you be willing.

Pooh doesn't see the point.

The first be similar to Scien's question but be approaching it from another angle. The second and third be useful for determining what sort of points of view players have on this dynamic which might give access to their probable roles. Unless you have have a specific reason not to answer the questions Troll would appreciate if you do. It be up to you but more information about this sort of thing should help the town in the long run.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Fine, discussion is good. Lynching scum should trump that though. Until someone convinces me that Sajin isn't obvscum, the questions are pointless to the task of lynching sajin. If you want the answers, you'll have to wait.

[hohum]

@Sajin: In other games you play in do you read your role PMs carefully? If so, please indicate how carefully. 1 being "just a glance" 10 being "I analyze every word"

[hohum]

The fact that you like your OMGUSy vote is noted.

[hohum]

I realize that we're all posting on top of each other right now but could you at least make an effort to read the entire thread before you hit submit?

Also, answer my question. It isn't rhetorical

[hohum]

Hohum's view here be troubling.

That's only because you don't understand the difference between withholding an opinion vs withholding a factually verified piece of information. That's okay though, I still love you.

[hohum]

OMGUS would be me voting troll, he was the first voter. I was confused I agree.


I assumed I was NOT told when I got my PM and that I was told in the duration of the mods 5th post when he stated chosen have now been selected.

I read my PMs carefully. I understood I could be chosen and did not know at the time I was sent the PM. I did not understand that I would never know.

If you read your PMs as carefully as you say then you didn't get a town role PM. It quite clearly states (all be it in karaoke-speak) that the chosen one is not know to the town.

[hohum]

OMGUS would be me voting troll, he was the first voter. I was confused I agree.

It's an OMGUS dude. You reacted to me (with a vote) simply because I voted you. Classic definition of the term in every sense.

[hohum]

Define what you think is OMGUS then.

To me thats voting with no other reason other than you voted me.

I have reason. My accusation is that you were taking advantage of my confusion.

That's a lame-ass reason for a vote. Of course I'm going to take advantage of your scumslip. Who wouldn't?

[hohum]

I owe you guys a post, but I'm probably not going to have time until much later today.

@Mod: prod qwints please

I think we've heard from everyone else, right?

[hohum]

I still intend to comment at some point this evening. I just wanted to pop in and say sajin needs to be lynched.

[hohum]

Papa Zito: go reread the last 5 pages. I've been spilling reasons.

[hohum]

also, has anyone noticed how papa zito has been basically chainsaw-defending sajin? What's wrong with a little pressure? You sure are quick to tear down potentially useful wagons.

[hohum]

You attempted to tear down the wagon (which existed) a couple of pages back. It's impolite at best and anti-town at worst to tear a wagon down before any useful information can be garnered out of it.

The fact of the matter is Sajin was doing a pretty good job of dropping other scum tells (which is the reason I'm tunneling on him) until you interceded on his behalf. You mooted any pressure that was on him by bitching about our votes on him. Frankly I don't care how scummy you think I am, because the feeling is mutual.

[hohum]

He isn't very very likely town. That's just YOUR read on him. Why don't you make an effort to do some scum hunting instead of providing color commentary?

[hohum]

notice the contradiction there?

PZ says he hates people who are slow to vote, yet he's chainsaw defending sajin, and calling myself and qwints scummy for trying to pressure him.

Also, he quite clearly seems to have inside information since he's so damned sure that Sajin is town.

Anyone else see a pattern emerging here?

[hohum]

1. Prove I attempted to tear down his wagon.

The fact that you voted me, called me scummy a couple pages ago proves that

2. If I tore it down why are you still pursuing it?

Because it merits discussion. Why are you against discussing the merits of a sajin lynch wagon?

3. Why are you pursuing a wagon on a player that's very very likely town?

See my answer above.

[hohum]

I have yet to see your case. Way to change the subject.

I can't help it you're blind. It's there for everyone else to see, and a few people have at least agreed with me at various points in time. I've laid out a few reasons that I think you're scummy. It's my read on you right now. Deal with it.

[hohum]

How are these two points connected at all?

You REALLY can't see how calling someone out for voting person X while calling everyone else for not voting is scummy?

[hohum]

My reasons for voting sajin might be weak but they're not invalid. I'm starting to think you and PZ are scummier than sajin.

Unvote, Vote Nikanor

[hohum]

Please point out to me where I said he was role fishing. You're putting words into my mouth. I said he didn't get a town role PM. Period. There's a HUGE difference.

This is exactly why I don't like leading with a vote to the rest of you.

How would you suggest we go about scum hunting then? By not voting you're effectively mooting the only pressure tactic that we have as a town.

[hohum]

I'm starting to think you and PZ are scummier than sajin.

Explain your vote properly, please.

You're both would rather take pot shots at people than do any real scum hunting. That's what the vote is for.

If I could vote you both simultaneously I would.

[hohum]

and scream at them to answer which will also likely be ignored.

You're screaming at people anyways (namely me)

You're welcome to do what ever you want to do. Me personally I prefer to throw my vote around, so stop bitching about it because a theory debate about early votes won't do us much good right now.

[hohum]

Discussion is NOT the town's main weapon. Pressure is. Nobody drops scum tells until they're pressured to do so. Period. You're just simply WRONG.

Mistakes need to be pursued rigerously, period. You can't give anyone the BoTD in this game, otherwise scum could simply hide behind their mistakes and achieve a 100% win condition.

[hohum]

Hohum, you should re-think the significance of defending in this game given the chosen mechanic. Being defended may actually be a town tell.

You clearly know my meta (though we've only played one game together). You should know I scum hunt the same way, all the time. Whether I have a power role, a vanilla role or I'm scum. Saying that I should pay less attention to scum tells because of game mechanics is the wrong approach, because it gives scum the opportunity to introduce WIOFM into the mix by not behaving in their own best interests. I will continue to peruse scum tells as I see them and adjust my notes accordingly.

To others, my experience shows hohum to be somewhat of an idiot savant. You have to deal with the idiot to get the good scum hunting.

I'm not sure whether to be offended or to take that as a compliment, but it made me chuckle. Did you have to struggle to come up with something nice to say about me or is this really how you feel?

[hohum]

And you are quite simply ignorant.

Ad-hom

blah blah blah, I clearly need to play in more newbie games

Scien: you're debating GAME THEORY. You're misinterpreting scum tells based on your skewed view of the world. shut up or do some scum hunting.

[hohum]

you scum hunt your way I'll scum hunt mine. I'm going to start to ignore you pretty soon because you're very much being a gigantic twit.

[hohum]

I think as always that your flaming merely intentional to get reactions out of people.

you're right.

I also think as always that this would be more of a scum tool than a town tool.

You're wrong.

Incidentally I don't think anything you're doing is necessarily scummy (yet). You're acting like a wounded animal though and that's as anti-town as you perceive my behavior to be. You need to take a DEEP breath. Calm down and collect your thoughts. Until you do that you're officially on ignore.

[hohum]

Cojin: You've had 2 days where the thread has been next to idle. You've had plenty of time to catch up. No excuses.

[hohum]

However I still hold that your intentional flaming is designed for one reason. To provoke misplays from people.

Provoking is not a good tactic. Yes scum can be provoked into misplays. However townies can also be provoked into misplays that you can capitalize on as well.

I'm going to try this one more time. After this, the subject NEEDS to be dropped. Arguments get us nowhere.

The 2nd paragraph in that quote is key. Provoking is an excellent tool (as you pointed out) to get ANYONE to drop scum tells. You need to be able to tell the difference though between a nervous/inexperienced townie and scum, though. You'll learn how to do that with some more experience.

Approaching the game with caution gives too much room for error.

You seriously need to give it a rest now. You've made your point, and I'm not going to stop voting or telling people what's on my mind just because you have a fragile ego.

[hohum]

*sigh* I give up. You're a tool.

[hohum]

nice OMGUS BTW.

[hohum]

Don't you have to vote me or suspect me before I can OMGUS vote you? Strange.

You basically just voted me for what amounts to a theory dispute. You might as well be sticking your middle finger up at me.

OMGUS doesn't necessarily need to be in the context of a vote.

[hohum]

EBWOP: doesn't necessarily need to be in the context of a vote, in response to a vote.

[hohum]

There's no logic in this dude. It's a personal OPINION.

Also, I can back my play with meta. I catch scum doing this.

[hohum]

Scien: Go read this game:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/watched_topics.php

Scum was caught on page 1, using some of the tactics I employ on a regular basis. I had to drag the town kicking and screaming into BC's lynch.

[hohum]

EBWOP: Wrong link. Sorry.

this game: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 63&start=0

[hohum]

Wow...I see the trick to keeping people active here is Hohum...AKA Blabbermouth...hehehe!

I reread the whole Sajin thing and really thinks he comes out looking Town in it. I feel his pain, as I'm not one to read and analyze my own PM. I look for the role and then move on.

I'm finding this game easier to pick out who is more likely Town than Scum.

Hohum is far louder than I've seen him play in a game with me and Papa is far quieter.

More to come...just want to look over things a bit more.

I look forward to hearing a hell of a lot more from you before the day is out. I still don't have ANY read whatsoever on you and cojin. Cojin is doing a bad job of being stealthy but you've obviously had practice.

[hohum]

1. Anti-town =\= scummy.
2. Having to explain every single action down to the most miniscule detail telegraphs all of the town's intentions to the scum team.
3. Withholding an opinion is not the same thing as withholding factual and verifiable information from the town.

[hohum]

I don't really agree that being defended makes you look Town here. Both Town and Scum cuddle...I cuddle everyone, when I'm Town or when I'm Scum. And being defended, shows nothing. I would more be looking at the people defending...perhaps someone might leak some PIS somewhere.

The whole point is the only way to properly judge a wagon is in hindsight. Pulling down wagons as they're forming is always a bad thing. It's never productive because it starts arguments and always leads to WIFOM.

[hohum]

@Zorblag: Please post another wall of text.

[hohum]

@MiteyMouse: top 3 suspects and why please.

[hohum]

Hohum's defense of me is quite strange. Cuddly hohum freaks me out.

I'm giving you some leeway out of respect and because you're standing your ground in the face of stupidity. It would be hard for scum to stand their ground when the likes of PZ, Scien and Nikanor are all playing this game like children who have just been told to go to bed early.

Respect mi yute.

[hohum]

The BloodCovenent wagon actually built without his presence

Not that I want to get in a long drawn out discussion about my meta, but there were only 7P in that game. You're right in that I hopped off his wagon to do some scum hunting but my approach nor my suspicions wavered once. As soon as he fakeclaimed my "sand paper" tactics got the lynch done.

[hohum]

who's the other townie on your list MM?

[hohum]

I have no idea who is Town and who is Scum Hohum...nice try though!

Really though, I'm more looking at this through who is more likely Town and right now

I have 2 people on that list

...one being me.

[hohum]

Oh...I see what you're asking now. I would prefer to keep that under my belt for now. If you read my posts it might become pretty clear though.

If it's as obvious as you say it is, why keep it to yourself?

[hohum]

yes, but if it's as obvious as you say it is there's no reason to continue to be secretive.

[hohum]

Well...he did the same thing for you earlier Papa. I just think that if he is going to try to set the players in this game to a certain level of play than he needs to step up to the same level. He cannot expect us to divulge everything if he is not planning to do the same thing himself...

What have I not divulged? I never sent PZ off into a treasure hunt and the only person I've refused to answer so far is Zorblag.

You're just making shit up as you go along.

[hohum]

Really...you didn't say:

Papa Zito: go reread the last 5 pages. I've been spilling reasons.

There's a difference between rehashing an entire case on someone and answering a simple question.

[hohum]

I want you to stop being dodgy and answer the question, because based on post 204 I don't believe you bother to actually think about what you post before you post it. Which is a scum tell. Trying to appear to be helpful and actually being helpful are two different things.

Your refusal to comply is negatively effecting my null read on you.

[hohum]

Unvote, Vote MiteyMouse

[hohum]

why do you still have a random vote on me?

[hohum]

Wrong.

You obviously don't understand the difference between arguing about a case and answering a simple question. The question I asked was designed to gauge whether or not you're actually paying attention. You clearly aren't

We're 10 pages into D1 and you obviously don't have an opinion. I'm not going to allow you to lay back and do nothing.

[hohum]

strong-arm (strôngärm) Informal
adj.
Using physical force or coercion: strong-arm tactics.
tr.v. strong-armed, strong-arm·ing, strong-arms
1. To use physical force or coercion against.
2. To rob by force.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/strong-arming

I can't force anyone to do anything. I can only use my vote as pressure.

What's the purpose of that question?

[hohum]

Sajin: You should look up the definition of straw man and stop tilting at the windmills.

[hohum]

Strong-arm tactics involve taking a certain point of view or stance (In this case- your belief I am scum) and then attacking all the people that do not agree with your viewpoint in an effort to coerce them to your point of view.

Do you agree this is what your doing?

Not agreeing with me is one thing. Actively defending you is another. I'm attacking those (rightfully) who take the viewpoint that I am scum because I think you are scum. Those who line up against me SHOULD be suspect.

[hohum]

Sajin Quixote: stop trying to distort my position.

[hohum]

I did!

Post 233. I clearly disagree with your assessment.

[hohum]

Strong-arm tactics involve taking a certain point of view or stance (In this case- your belief I am scum) and then attacking all the people that do not agree with your viewpoint in an effort to coerce them to your point of view.

Do you agree this is what your doing?

Not agreeing with me is one thing. Actively defending you is another. I'm attacking those (rightfully) who take the viewpoint that I am scum because I think you are scum. Those who line up against me SHOULD be suspect.

I wasn't defending him....

And why do you think he's referring to you at all? I'm attacking you for a different reason.

[hohum]

jesus christ sajin, learn to read. I never implied that you referred to anyone defending.

[hohum]

I'm going to hop back on my original suspicions, because you've been nothing but argumentative for the last 2 pages and you take virtually everything I say out of context. You're clearly doing it on purpose. You're trying too hard.

Unvote, Vote Sajin

I'm happy with a sajin lynch for today.

[hohum]

Holy hell. hohum, you're drowning the game.

I can't help it here everyone would rather argue with me than talk to me.

[hohum]

sajin is so obvscum it hurts.

[hohum]

I'll gladly put together a PBPA, because YOU requested it (not because sajin requested it).

The only thing is, you need to stop with the bullshit PZ. You got done telling me not even a full page ago how noisy I am and now you WANT me to continue posting.

[hohum]

I'll gladly put together a PBPA, because YOU requested it (not because sajin requested it).

The only thing is, you need to stop with the bullshit PZ. You got done telling me not even a full page ago how noisy I am and now you WANT me to continue posting.

I'm requesting content, not noise. i.e. "Sajin is obvscum because of X, Y, Z" not "u guyz r tardz"

Fine, I'm putting together the PBPA; but don't get your panties in a twist again later once you revert back to your chainsaw defending of sajin and I call you on it.

[hohum]

Troll: One point pooh would like to make. Pooh no attack troll because pooh see troll's unvote simply as a desire to go and scumhunt elsewhere. Pooh see PZ-scum's unvote as same if PZ not go on offensive over sajin's wagon.

[hohum]

Troll: One point pooh would like to make. Pooh no attack troll because pooh see troll's unvote simply as a desire to go and scumhunt elsewhere. Pooh see PZ-scum's unvote as same if PZ not go on offensive over sajin's wagon.

So then what did hohum make of Troll's later post saying that Sajin most likely be town?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Pooh disagrees.

[hohum]

Zorblag: You're giving papa zito the same leeway I'm giving qwints. I get it. The difference between the way you handled the sajin situation and the way PZ handled it is a stark contrast. You simply said what you needed to say and you moved on. That was the proper way to handle it. What PZ did was different. He lead into the discussion with a vote on me based on my read on sajin. Not only that he continues to this page to cast suspicion doubt on anyone who has anything even remotely negative to say about Sajin.

Troll may not agree with pooh but troll at least have common courtesy to allow others to scum hunt and/or dig their own graves.

PZ took the low road.

[hohum]

Not only that he continues to this page to cast suspicion doubt on anyone who has anything even remotely negative to say about Sajin.

I'm asking for a case and you continue to rant about this. Silly old bear.

I'll get you your case tonight or tomorrow. Chill.

In the mean time I'll rant about what ever I want, scum.

[hohum]

Avatar changes make me dizzy.

Sorry. I do sort of miss pooh but I need to use this one for at least a week, then I'm likely going to switch back.

The whole sajin situation

In sajin's very first post he's pushing for a mass claim. There are no power roles alive (other than the chosen) in this setup so claiming at any point serves only to generate useless banter.

The fact that he was unaware that the chosen in fact does not know as such indicates that may not have received a townie role PM. I still contest that this is more of a scum tell than everyone seems to think it is and it was worth discussing. Certainly any scum tell (no matter how minor) on page one is worthy of a vote.

He then responded (post 19) eventually with an OMGUS under guise of supporting the idea of a random lynch.

He even later stated that he can see how his early posts could be interpreted as a scum tell (post 41) but attempts to reason that latching on to early scum tells is in of itself a scum tell (post 41, my response in 61, his in 62). The notion that I dare question him over a possible scum slip is anti-scum hunting (quite a large scum tell) at best, and downright ludicrous at worst.

He would also rather argue semantics over the definition of the term OMGUS than acknowledge he's being super over-defensive (48, 57, ).

WIFOM and a little bit of scum gaming in 50.

At this point his activity level drops off of a cliff before he reappears in the thread in order to go on a strawman rampage.

General observations about his behavior:

1) He'd rather lynch randomly than do any scum hunting whatsoever I called him on this early on and he completely failed to even acknowledge that fact.

2) He continually distorts qwints' and my own (and everyone else's) positions on various matters.

3) He talks about game mechanics from time to time in order to appear helpful but hasn't really made any effort to do any real scum hunting of his own.

4) Virtually every other response to me since about page 4 has been "I don't see your case, you're full of shit" even though I have sitting here discussing it with him and others since, oh, page 1 or so.

I haven't decided who is likely sajin's scum partner but right now PZ and MM are my top suspects.

[hohum]

So I stand by my vote: more sajin lynching, please.

[hohum]

Also one more thing (sorry for the continual multi-posting, I'll make a better effort to keep it to a minimum from now on)

Hohum, you should re-think the significance of defending in this game given the chosen mechanic. Being defended may actually be a town tell

I disagree with you on this one. Keep in mind that the scum team MUST lynch one of the two chosen in order to satisfy their win condition. This is more of an incentive for the scum team to actively push a wagon. This also means that one or both of them potentially become a lightning rod if they can successfully get one of the chosen lynched.

If we happen to get lucky on D1 and nail scum (like sajin) because of a scum slip (like asking for a claim because he didn't get a town PM and didn't understand the chosen mechanic) then there's only one scum left. Not good if that scum has to end up being the lone wagon pusher.

Pushing a chosen wagon is virtually a sacrifice fly (to use a baseball analogy).

Based on this notion I contend that early on in the game the scum team have lots of incentive to keep one another alive.

[hohum]

@MM: I answered PZ's question, now you should answer mine. Who's your 2nd town suspect and why?

[hohum]

I'll answer your's now...but, you need to conform to the same rules that you are expecting us to play by...fair?

Sajin...this is simply because (as I already said) I do not always read my full PMs. I look for the role and alignment and as long as it's a familiar role, I tend not to analyze it word for word. There is a pretty unique dynamic in this game and one who is not familiar with it (or even those that are as demonstrated by my lack of full understanding) could get confused. Mostly, I feel his pain as, I have been called out for not fully understanding or reading PMs.

Now, I believe that I owe you all an appology. I let my emotions get the best of me yesterday and for that I'm sorry. Hohum, you just really got under my skin and I should have stepped back before posting.

I think you don't bother to pay attention to more than just role PMs because you've clearly missed a lot:

There's a difference between rehashing an entire case on someone and answering a simple question.

There's also a really good reason I chose to ignore PZ's request initially. It helped me better my read on him. You on the other hand are refusing to be cooperative just to spite me or teach me some sort of lesson. That's very unproductive.

You also obviously missed this exchange as well:

OMGUS would be me voting troll, he was the first voter. I was confused I agree.


I assumed I was NOT told when I got my PM and that I was told in the duration of the mods 5th post when he stated chosen have now been selected.

I read my PMs carefully. I understood I could be chosen and did not know at the time I was sent the PM. I did not understand that I would never know.

If you read your PMs as carefully as you say then you didn't get a town role PM. It quite clearly states (all be it in karaoke-speak) that the chosen one is not know to the town.

@Zorblag: I'm not opposed to an MM lynch but it isn't going to happen today. I'd rather lynch sajin (scum) than go with a "safe" lynch. Safe lynches involve a fair amount of scum gaming, which isn't good. For now I'm content to keep MM talking in order to get a better read on her.

[hohum]

@MM: Also the lack of acknowledgement of zorblag's vote on you is noted.

[hohum]

You know Hohum, you could have just said that you had a reason for not answering the questions posed to you as opposed to saying "go reread the last 5 pages". Then calling someone out for doing the exact thing that you did is not productive for the Town. You cannot expect me to accept that you did it and then roll over when you call my for actions that you made as well. Perhaps I was looking to get a better read from you as well.

Now, you and I can keep going over this and get everyone in this thread really pissed at us or you can agree to accept that if you are going to do something then you'd better be ok with someone else doing the same thing...

If I have to explain my actions to you every step of the way it basically moots any pressure that I'm able to generate on people when I have 4 of you guys lining up against me.

You're not the thread mommy, I don't report to you.

[hohum]

@MM: please take the time to address zorblag's concerns rather than continuing to flame me for my play style.

[hohum]

@MM: You didn't even bother to ask why zorblag thinks you're scummy. You've got a big guilty sign around your neck.

[hohum]

looking for town tells is something scum would do in order to appear to be on the correct side of a mislynch. Scum have the benefit of always being correct because they have inside knowledge of the setup.

I'm waiting for PZ to respond, but MM just went off the cliff.

[hohum]

sure. I like meta as much as the next person.

Please paste the link.

[hohum]

Really? You're going to quote facebook morons as your supporting meta?

[hohum]

there's a reason I don't play on facebook, and I know you at least superficially agree with me because you've said so to me privately in the past.

[hohum]

Perhaps my choice of wording was a bit harsh. For any of her friends reading this game, moron was my word and not hers; however she's being less than upfront about what she has said about her experiences playing on facebook.

I'm not really going to go down this road any further though because it's basically my word against hers and it's quickly going to degenerate into a pointless argument.

[hohum]

I don't mind all this business about prodding cojin awake and asking him questions designed to get him to contribute but I don't like how sajin is trying to influence cojin's opinion over and argument that he's actually a part of. I'm happy to sit on the sidelines and allow the town to steer cojin towards forming his own opinion.

[hohum]

@Zorblag: You're going to have to do some convincing to get me on board with an MM lynch. She's definitely scum-leaning; however, I don't have a good enough read on her right now because what little she's posted so far has been argumentative.

[hohum]

I have over and over again. You're either misinterpreting or blatantly misrepresenting (again) what I was saying. I'm not going to sit here and argue with you because you're wrong.

[hohum]

I know some times I have a difficult time conveying thoughts but you need reading comprehension lessons badly.

[hohum]

*sigh*

fine. I'll address the illiterate's concerns later.

[hohum]

speculating on who may or may not be the chosen one is going to do us a disservice. It requires some scum gaming which leads to WIFOM.

We need to lynch sajin.

That's about all I have left to say.

[hohum]

Zorblag: You're wrong. The difference is that there's no way to pick up "chosen tells" from the town because the chosen doesn't know that he is chosen. Scum tells lead us to scum, chosen tells lead us to a loss.

@Zorblag: should I be concerned about YOUR alignment for the purposeful attempt to introduce misdirection?

[hohum]

Zorblag: sorry dude, we're not lynching MM today.

In other news: more sajin lynching please.

[hohum]

which ones? The ones where you make wild misinterpretations about my statements or the ones where you just blatantly shovel words into my mouth?

[hohum]

I said I wasn't for your lynch today. I still wouldn't mind seeing you dead.

Sajin is a better lynch target.

[hohum]

Tunneling
strong-arming
taking advantage of confusion

These are all good things for the town, not bad things. Why are you so anti-scum hunting?

[hohum]

Take note of what sajin just said. He effectively wants to lynch me over what amounts to a game theory dispute. I've got a case on him and he's merely trying to shut me down. His entire existence in this thread is OMGUSy.

[hohum]

of course you're going to be against anything which is going to get you lynched. Because you fucked up basically from page 1. I don't know how you've managed to survive for 16 pages.

If I'm to be lynched instead of you I don't have a problem with that either. I'm really annoyed with this game right now.

[hohum]

Am I the only one who found this post funny?

yes.

[hohum]

WIFOM defending WIFOM.

Both of you need to be voting sajin.

[hohum]

I'm around qwints, I've just got nothing further to say and I'm tired of beating a dead horse.

I'm going to laugh my ass off when I'm proven correct.

If you want to lynch me for lurking, or go with me at deadline, or whatever it is you want to do, then I don't care. I'll go along with the program.

[hohum]

Unvote, Vote Cojin

you can lynch me for this tomorrow, I don't care anymore.

[hohum]

Some amount of tunneling is good for the town. Sajin is so obviously scum that it's hilarious.

21 pages later it's clear that we're way too dysfunctional as a town.

Cojin is going to flip town, willing to lay money on it.

Sajin needs to be lynched but nobody is going to listen to me.

That's about all I have.

Good luck, go town. I'll post occasionally just to avoid being replaced but don't expect a commitment from me going forward.

[hohum]

@hohum, no matter what happens with this Troll hopes that you no will spend so much time tomorrow sulking as you have today. That be fairly insulting and Troll realizes it but Troll thinks that you be more likely to be town than scum and Troll would like to see you move on from your Sajin obsession as you could actually do the town some good if you were willing to participate. The town play no has been particularly good no matter what the scum team ends up being but if you be town you can do much more to help than you did today.

What do you want from me? I can't get a read on anyone else because the whole game is aligned against me on this sajin lynch. You can't all possibly be scum.

This is precisely why the whole business about tearing down wagons is so counter-productive.

Too much WIFOM. Not enough pack mentality.

By all means, allow sajin to continue to run rampant through the thread, until each and every one of us are picked off one-by-one.

[hohum]

Cojin is going to flip town, willing to lay money on it.

So... you hammered someone you think is town?

Yeah. If you want to use that to build a case on me go right ahead.

Good luck, go town. I'll post occasionally just to avoid being replaced but don't expect a commitment from me going forward.

Dude, seriously?

Okay, Cojin is town, Sajin is scum. Sajin's parter = ?[/quote]

You can't realistically expect to out both scum on D1. There's no such thing as an out-of-the-park home run in this game, and if the town ever hits one its because they got fucking lucky.

The recipe is you find scum and you lynch them immediately. Then you use the following day to do more scum hunting.

You're just setting yourself up for failure if you try and out both scum at the same time. It gives the scum team too much opportunity to shut down the scum hunting process.

[hohum]

Okay, Cojin is town, Sajin is scum. Sajin's parter = ?

Pay more attention, scum:

I can't get a read on anyone else because the whole game is aligned against me on this sajin lynch

[hohum]

fine, but tomorrow.

Replaced by dramonic. - Incog-Mod

[hohum]

posting shortly. Don't replace me

[hohum]

Lots of walls of text. I guess I should have at least tried to read along the last few days. Sorry for the delay guys.

It's going to take me a few posts to re-insert myself into the conversation so please bare with me.

I still like a Sajin lynch and I have a questions for scien:

You said a few pages back that I could see how my behavior is scummy. What is your opinion on that? Do you think I should be lynched for my play yesterday?

What is your current opinion of sajin?

[hohum]

and yes, cojin's flip came as quite a shock to me, but I should have known better. I miss qwints.

[hohum]

Troll,

Quite frankly you're at the top of my suspect list right now. I've taken some time to meditate about this game and so far you above anyone else have been the most vocal against lynching Sajin. I believe you're doing this because you know that Sajin isn't scum and that's why it's so easy for you to overlook the multitude of mistakes he's made throughout the game.

You are a dangerous person to play with because you're capable of putting together a well reasoned argument.

If I can figure out a way to wrap my head around the notion that "Sajin plays like scum" instead of "Sajin is scum" then I'd be prepared to lynch you today instead.

As for trying to direct me into a conversation with scien: I can see that he's asked a couple of questions. I can also see that some more questions were directed at me in his last post. I don't like that you're attempting to mediate the discussion and steer the rest of us.

I'll have that conversation with Scien next time I post.

[hohum]

post coming in a bit later today, promise.

[hohum]

Word! I screwed up, sorry guys, gg mm

[hohum]

grats town

[hohum]

I still say the setup needs an extra goon, but I'd rather run last man standing. Perhaps my third trip through the omni-present waiting list in the mini theme queue.