Mini 730 - Hard Nights in the City - OVER!

[Atronach]

/confirm

[Atronach]

<b>Vote: insanepenguin02</b><p>

b/c my girlfriend is from Canada, and she said to.<br>
and for having a picture/avatar that scares me:(

[Atronach]

Obviously I don't know what I'm doing yet:|, I take it html is no good here?

[Atronach]

Vote: Plum

For not posting since confirmations[/b]

[Atronach]

Okay, hold a moment. I'm all for harassing lurkers, but let's put this into perspective here. At this time of this vote, the game had been started for all of ~30 hours. Jumping the gun much?

I find it a more relevant discussion than the needless/useless argument Mega and Don are engaged in. The level of outrage and defensiveness seems disproportionate considering the subject matter. And it does not help us find scum.

[Atronach]

Forget my question, you just answered it.

Am I to infer that its noobish to find the discussion you're having with don to be pointless and potentially distracting from the game? If so, then I'll accept the insult, because that is exactly my current 'thoughts on the game': too much time spent discussing self votes and how much discussion is too much discussion and not enough time spent actually looking for scum. Because you've already admitted that you dont find don supicious. So why are you devoting an ungodly time responding to every single stubborn thing he's said?

Look, I will say that I feel like don is the instigator of this murky-ing of the waters; the longer it goes on the more suspicous I get of it. I think it's possible that Mega is getting caught up in a desire to 'make the other guy see my point of view on this issue no matter what it takes!' kind of viewpoint. I also think it's possible that the two of them are deliberately derailing the game, too- I'm just not as sure about Mega.

@ Plum- In reading a bit of the Mafia wiki, I probably should have FOSed and not voted you. With that in mind I'll unvote for now; there are people I find much more suspicious than the people Ive felt were lurking.

unvote

[Atronach]

Atronach: 7 (Noob Town)

1) Seemed worried about the amount of "needless/useless" discussion between don and mega and doesn't think that it is relevant to the discussion. But no other thought on it? Do you think it is scummy or do you find it completely useless with no meaning?

The longer it went on, the more I thought it was scummish. That it went on so long without either of them realizing that it would be detrimental to town to continue their gametheory debate seems improbable. The debate in my mind was whether or not it was scummy from both sides.

2) You stated that you think too much time is being spent discussing and not finding scum. How would you prefer to look for scum? In my opinion, we find out the most info by voting and discussing.

I stated that there was too much time being spent on the discussion of self-voting.

4) One more question: Why did you say that you should FOS Plum and not Vote? And one more question (lol): You also state that you find more people more suspicious than Plum (or the other lurkers). Why?[/quote]

What I felt about Plum was best expressed in FoS: I found it mildly suspicious that she was lurking and wanted her to respond to me. At the time I voted, I didn't realize there was such a thing as FoS.

[Atronach]

juls: i believe it is a well earned fos and would be happy to say that if one of us flips scum, town should

definitely

lynch the other before lylo(if the situation arises). i do understand the inherent risk of the self vote and am more than happy to live(or die) with the consequences. wifomic? yes. but only until my death.

more than one player has speculated at the megatheory/don_johnson scum pairing. if mega were lynched and flipped scum this would cast enough doubt as to my alignment that i feel it could be devastatingly bad for town in a lylo situation. the other scum would have a premade case to get me lynched thereby costing town the game. this would work vice versa. i never said that one of us is definitely scum, and i never stated that lynching one of us would offer any clues as to the others alignment. i just don't want to hand scum an easy argument at lylo.

Posts like these strike me as extremely odd. Why in the world would you be talking about a lynch or lose situation this early in the game? This line of thinking reeks of desperation. A lylo situation is not even a remote possibility at this point so why the "warning"/attempt at contingency plans?

FoS: don_johnson

[Atronach]

*sigh*, this always seems to happen day one.

I don't want to/will not regurgitate what you all have already said. I've decided that yes, penguin should claim or die, based on the cases

you people

have presented.

And christ, I hope someone does quckhammer. that'll certainly give some direction to day two.

Why hope for the quickhammer? This is already a fast game. The deadline is a week away. Why the preoccupation with a claim so soon?

[Atronach]

@Megatheory - I realised what I was saying at the time of my post (that we both were kinda in the same boat). I knew I had not posted much in the way of content but I felt the difference was the post I was writing. I also stated I was getting a bad vibe from him. Bad vibes aren't something I can put my finger on...something just wasn't sitting right with me.

Another thing I noticed different about penguin was he seemed to be "chatting" whereas at least I was trying to work my way into the conversation, I just really didn't have much to add to that particular discussion.

And I did look over this question on my first read through, sorry

Juls, this seems very wishy-washy. Your post #123, is another example of how you are not committing yourself to anything. Posting a lot or a little doesn't mean much if all you are saying is, "Oh, I see your point" or "I don't have much to say".

What's more when you voted for penguin is post 74, it was basically because of "bad vibes". When Nameless called you on it in post 87, you changed your vote to don_johnson in your very next post (#94).

The only firm stance you've had, in fact, is keeping your vote on don_johnson since then.

FoS: Juls

As for the IP bandwagon, I just don't see it. He has said some fairly suspicious things, and he will have to answer for them. But it did not warrant votes enough to get him to L-1.

[Atronach]

Do you think it's highly likely that penguin is town? Can we confirm if he is really a tracker?

This has been on my mind as well. I don't know a way of confirming other then letting IP investigate someone tonight and then seeing what we can do about verifying his results.

In fact, I don't think this a bad idea at all. Look at it this way: IP investigates someone in secret tonight. If he gets lucky and finds scum, we can lynch them. (Needless to say if turns out to have been lying we can take that as suitable proof that IP is not to be trusted). If he finds town, that doesn't mean that we haven't learned something valuable. If he gets lynched or targeted later and turns out to have really been a tracker, then we'll have a confirmed townie or two.

[Atronach]

Unvote

The deadline is less than a week away. We need to decide

right now

if we're going to lynch penguin or not. I strongly suggest we table all other issues until we come to a consensus on this, or we will probably wind up slapping together a poorly informed lynch or even wind up no-lynching, and if either of those things happen, we have virtually no chance of winning. We've already put this off for too long.

Throwing around suspicion and discussing side issues can wait. We need to focus on this. Now.

I still think penguin is scum. Tracker is an easy role to fake and is the next logical choice for scum given the dead NPC cop and backup cop in the opening flavor. I think penguin is by far the best lynch for today, but I'm willing to compromise under the following conditions:

-Penguin can only get off the hook if he finds a player who targeted a dead player.
-If that player is lynched and comes up scum, penguin should be lynched unless he finds another player who targeted a dead player.
-This continues until penguin does not find a scum or three scum are dead. At that point, penguin is lynched.
-We guarantee that penguin does not survive until endgame.

This is pretty elaborate and is probably half-baked. I'm trying to prevent the town from developing stupid townie syndrome and letting penguin live based on some WIFOM bullshit or something like that. If any of you can think of a better test for penguin, I'd love to hear it.

I'm sure this should go without saying, but just in case: DO NOT CLAIM A POWERROLE AND SUGGEST THAT PENGUIN TARGET YOU TONIGHT.

This is a lot like what I was talking about in post 185. Penguin claimed. This needs to be put to the test. If he finds scum, we lynch the one he found. If they flip town, we lynch IP. If they are in fact scum, we'll see if he can find scum again. If he doesn't find scum, we lynch IP. Doctor, should there be one, should keep IP safe during the night.

[Atronach]

[quote: Plum]We actually need a bit more face-showing out of him, Geraintm, Atronach and ChaosOmega and CB and . . . that's it, I suppose, except for asking Porkens for more actual substance. Grrr, multiple lurky players.[/quote]

BS. I have posted every day. I work 50+ hours a week, so this is probably the level of activity you can expect from me. I'll do my best to make my posts quality if not quantity.

There's a lot that I would love to post, but I'm not posting any of it yet because it could very easily drown out the more important discussion regarding penguin.

I agree that figuring out what we are going to do about IP is important. However, it is not helpful to hold back your analysis of others, and worse to discourage others from doing so.

I'd love to just lynch penguin now and get it over with, but we aren't going to get our way today. We need to compromise. How are we going to prevent penguin from solidifying his claim without actually being a tracker?

Where are you getting this idea from? I certainly have not made my mind up one way or the other. If you think IP is the best lynch for tonight, make your case and make your vote.

This seems like a good time to go back and reread so I can make my own case. I will have some analysis in my next post.

[Atronach]

Having gone through the game, a certain player's actions started pinging my scumdar. Here is my take on Gera.

Post #101:

i actually deliberately put in such an obvious line into my post 15, the "you think it will hurt us that much? " just for shits and giggles really. i thought it was such an over the top attempt to appear clueless newbie town it was funny, it wasn't meant to generate a page of discussion about it. i didn't really get why he called it WIFOM, i was expecting him to just tell me off for trying to be so obviously town.

I was not at all suspicious of the "why the what" until this post, it is disingenuous to say this was to try to appear like a noob when your start date is right underneath your avatar. This smells...like scum.

Post #126: He claims he doesn't realize an emoticon means something is a joke then spouts very generic advice about scumpairing. Nothing remotely substantive here.

Post #130: After being asked to do his own research, just recaps a couple posts in one sentence each and presents absolutely zero analysis. Again, no substance.

Post #159: Porkens says he doesn't care who gets lynched, and Geraintm says

i actually sorta agree with this in a meta way. has anyoen done the stats on this over the whole site, what % of day one lynches are mafia compared with the number of mafia? i strongly suspect mafia come out best and town would be better off random lynching day one...

RANDOM LYNCHING!? If there was ever a thing that is anti-town it's wasting a lynch. It is the town's greatest weapon. Even if the D1 lynch flips town most of the time (and you have not presented any evidence to this effect), it is still beneficial to see why they got lynched, who started it, who jumped on the bandwagon, and who hammered. Random lynch reveals nothing.

Further, he votes IP in the same post. Right after Nameless takes his vote off, geraintm is the one that puts him back at L-1. His only reasoning: wanting a proper claim. He is the one that forced IP to claim his power role. He jumped from "we should random vote" to pressuring IP for a "proper claim". This early? Very suspicious.

Post #188:

and i decided to vote for you because of your evasive claiming. wasn't hopping on a wagon, was deciding to vote for you for good reasons.

Your good reason, scummy to begin with, was to get him to claim. He had claimed by now, yet you stood behind your vote.

sorry you get this feeling. no one really asks me anything though (i am not realyl involved in any of the major threads of the game), so i have to circle the discussion and not being online when otehrs are, i can't really get into a conversation so have to save my posts and reply to everything at once.

I call BS on this. You should not have to be asked anything to start scumhunting, you should just be doing it. Isn't it your choice that you are not involved in any of the major threads. And btw, if you are town you are involved in every discussion whether you are the subject of it or not. Sitting back and waiting for someone to address you is scummy. Not being online when others are is irrelevant as a "conversation" can take days in this game.

Post #204: In response to a question about why people still had their votes IP you said

felt like a good place at the time to put mine, and seen nowhere better to put it

This contradicts what you said earlier about voting him for evasive claiming.

Post #208: When called on this you say

i felt at the time penguin was the best person to vote for. i have not found anyone yet who i think is vote-worthy.

This makes it feel like you would have been content to keep your vote on the highest vote count until someone called you out on it.

Post #210: Regarding the 3-man scum team thing. I don't find this suspicious in the least, this is an obvious follow-up to Nameless' 3-man scumpairing.

After my re-read, it looks like Geraintm was hoping to fly under the radar D1.

Vote: Geraintm

[Atronach]

@ Plum- In reading a bit of the Mafia wiki, I probably should have FOSed and not voted you. With that in mind I'll unvote for now; there are people I find much more suspicious than the people Ive felt were lurking.

There wasn't really the follow up detailing your suspicions at the time that I would have wanted. Your following posts seem to jump around hunting one person at a time (juls and dj). I don't feel a solid connection between your cases or you following up any suspicions or actively perusing a lynch. I'm going to move on to some other people and come back to you to see how it fits in with others sentiments at the time.

I was not at all suspicious of the "why the what" until this post, it is disingenuous to say this was to try to appear like a noob when your start date is right underneath your avatar. This smells...like scum.

I don't follow the logic. I'd rather have gera respond first though. I think the other points seem solid.

(Yes, I still think IP is probably scum, but upon consideration of recent discussion, I've decided it might prove telling to watch the actions of certain players if IP is alive D2.)

Post #126: He claims he doesn't realize an emoticon means something is a joke then spouts very generic advice about scumpairing. Nothing remotely substantive here.

the emoiticon was =P, one i don't use ever myself. i missed it. i think someone else did too.

re: random lynching. sorry if my post was misunderstood. my job is stats so i was just sorta going through the maths of day ones. i was trying to talk in a vague sense in response to someone else's comment

Further, he votes IP in the same post. Right after Nameless takes his vote off, geraintm is the one that puts him back at L-1. His only reasoning: wanting a proper claim. He is the one that forced IP to claim his power role. He jumped from "we should random vote" to pressuring IP for a "proper claim". This early? Very suspicious.

why was this suspicious? penguin hadn't claimed, i felt he should not be allowed to get away without a proper claim. hence my vote? it wasn't a jump from random vote to my vote for penguin, the random vote thing was purely a meta discussion.

can i ask how my line about penguin being the best person to vote for at the time contradicts me voting for him for evasive claiming?
i really don't get the contradiction there?

Heya, Geraintm, let me dig up a quote:

i generally tend to be slo in placing votes and slow in changing them
i felt at the time penguin was the best person to vote for
i have not found anyone yet who i think is vote-worthy. i am sure there will be something over the weekend to make me change my mind

Well??? And did this mean that your preferred lynch at the time was IP (potential Tracker IP, that is)? Expound, if you please.

when i voted for penguin, i felt at the time the best person to be voting for was penguin. he hadn't claimed tracker at that stage. what do you need me to expand on?

post 279 - why are people looking at my join date? i had i think about a years gap in there somewhere, and i am not a massive player, i normally have one newbie/one larger game on the go at once.

[Atronach]

Sorry, I hit submit instead of preview to make sure I had all the quotes right before I typed analysis. Give me a second

[Atronach]

Your following posts seem to jump around hunting one person at a time (juls and dj). I don't feel a solid connection between your cases or you following up any suspicions or actively perusing a lynch.

You are going to have to do a lot to convince me that I should have been seeking a lynch on those two that early in the game. I do not find pursuing lynches is as useful as pursuing scum that far from deadline.

Post #126: He claims he doesn't realize an emoticon means something is a joke then spouts very generic advice about scumpairing. Nothing remotely substantive here.

the emoiticon was =P, one i don't use ever myself. i missed it. i think someone else did too.

I'll look back and see who that "someone else" was since I know you will not. Even with that though, I'm not buying it. It is none-the-less suspicious.

[quote"geraintm"]re: random lynching. sorry if my post was misunderstood. my job is stats so i was just sorta going through the maths of day ones. i was trying to talk in a vague sense in response to someone else's comment[/quote]

I don't think it was misunderstood at all. It

was

vague. That's the reason it stood out to me as suspicious. It looks like a vague suggestion for a random lynch.

why was this suspicious? penguin hadn't claimed, i felt he should not be allowed to get away without a proper claim. hence my vote? it wasn't a jump from random vote to my vote for penguin, the random vote thing was purely a meta discussion.

Even with the random lynch jump aside, you put him back at L-1 and forced a power role to claim.

can i ask how my line about penguin being the best person to vote for at the time contradicts me voting for him for evasive claiming?
i really don't get the contradiction there?

It is because you stood behind your vote even after he had claimed.

[Atronach]

Reading from my cell phone. For now

unvote

. More to come later.

[Atronach]

To start, I read Gera's claim with a great deal of skepticism. I realize there is no way to know how likely it is that there would be two trackers in the game. But the fact that two popped up in a row seems suspicious to me. However, I do not want to risk lynching him at this point so my vote stays off. I will add, for later discussion (read after D1), that we need to formulate a plan on confirming geraintm and IP.

I don't see a good case for lynching ChaosOmega other than he is not helping town by just sitting there. And putting him on my list seems useless when there's no way to know if he's actually scum or not.

Considering how close we are to deadline, I do not want to risk a no-lynch. So I would be willing to follow Megatheory's plan regarding don_johnson and Nameless as I think it has at least a chance of helping uncover scummy behavior. I wish I was more confident in the case against either of them, but I do not see any better alternatives.

[Atronach]

i require an apology.

No, you don't. Questioning you and your actions in this game is kind of the point of this game. Nowhere in his posts do I see him saying anything rude or offensive to you.

you said you were bad at scumhunting. this is proof. i will not respond.

It's not proof, because we don't know that you're town. And oh how I wish it was true that you would not respond. You actually have some worthwhile points in those posts- I do think that Gera using his tracking skill first and vigging himself is a workable option, though I'm not sure I'm advocating such a strategy. But that type of useful discussion is buried under mounds of insults and game derailing theatrics (and for the record: I think if you have to resort to childish namechanging tactics in your arguments, then your arguments cant have been very strong to begin with).
Your argument that Nameless saying "Asking a townie to self vig is not, under any circumstances, a good idea" is a scumtell is flat out wrong. Hes speaking of a hypothetical situation, for one. For two, in that hypothetical situation if someone CAN 'self vig' then it stands to reason that they ARE a vigilante. Thus, town.
@Juls- I already said who I'd be willing to vote for. I'm not sure I'm as suspicious of Don so much as exasperated by him- I'm not going to vote him just for that. I'm reading and will vote before deadline.

[Atronach]

You're right that a townie can campaign against another townie, but there are different levels of certainty regarding one's target.I know when I get to a high level of certainty I have caught scum. Don is projecting a level of certainty that is so high, he is probably right.

Since it's been brought up, my belief that don or Nameless should be lynched doesn't come from a belief that one of them absolutely has to be scum. Initially, I only believed that lynching one of them would have a good chance of hitting scum and provide a lot of information on the other.

The last statement you made about this does not synch up with what you've been saying all along. Even earlier in the same post. You say that if one flips town, the other doesn't 'absolutely' have to be scum, but that's not consistent with what you're saying at other times. Your earlier statement sets up Don for a high fall if he's been wrong about Nameless all along and you have, meanwhile, distanced yourself from the blame.

I would prefer a lynch over a no lynch, even if it is Nameless. We need to know some stuff in order to have a direction D2. If you turn up as town I will take a very thorough look at the others on your wagon.

You are covering your own ass here. I shouldn't need to point out that you are on that bandwagon.

come on, man. disliking me or my playstyle should not affect your vote.

As a matter of fact, I do not dislike you, don. I've found your posts entertaining, but not necessarily informative or helpful. I try not to let my emotions come into play when I vote at all, and if I was going to vote you because of play style, I would have already voted for you in post 394.

I suppose this is what it really comes down to it for me in the end: I feel the case against don is more about his personality or his style of play than actual scummy things that he's done. I've found it hard to uncover a

good

reason to vote for him. That leaves me with one option to avoid a no lynch, and that is to

Vote: Nameless

.

[Atronach]

I have a three things to say before we start really getting into it. To start I know you both said where your votes are going for the day, but remember a majority is a lot lower now. More importantly, IP and gera have both survived the night. I hope they both did some tracking. Let's get the results of their track before don_johnson gets to a halfway point with votes. I'm not saying don't discuss things, just don't forget we still need to TRY to confirm them. Last, a quick lynch with little discussion will not be helpful for us the next day. Let's get the track results and get discussion going.

[Atronach]

(that said, I still think he should have let antr or gera to put votes in)

I did vote. Only gera did not. D1 was rough, but I think we can get something out of it. I'll take a day to do a re-read of D1 and have a post with some conclusions. Hopefully we'll have gera's results by then.

[Atronach]

i am not trying to appeal to emotion as much as i am to common sense. if i am scum, i am brazen.

The fact that you are aware of this makes it a nulltell.

Really??? Was this such a danger that all three of you had to warn the town about it?

When I saw the first post of the day was a vote with no explanation, and it was followed by another, I definitely think there was a danger that it could have been a quick lynch. We would have learned nothing for D3.

I am not convinced we have a serial killer yet.

Why not?

[Atronach]

I understand what you are saying, but are we just taking his word that he didn't use his vig attempt?

[Atronach]

What are you talking about? Juls and I were having a conversation, that went like this:

Juls: I'm not sure theres an SK
Atronach: Why not?
Juls: Because Gera might have used his vig power last night. I dont want to speculate until I know what he did.
Atronach: I follow, but are you going to take his word for it that he used his vig power?

In this conversation, Juls was already taking it for granted that Gera was telling the truth about his role. I was pointing out that we dont have any reason to believe Gera, as he's unconfirmed.

[Atronach]

atronach wrote:
I understand what you are saying, but are we just taking his word that he didn't use his vig attempt?

just pointing it out. your choice of words is suspicious.

I don't understand. What is suspicious about asking if we are just taking his word that he has the powers he has, or will tell the truth about them?

I see only two possibilities regarding geraintm at this point. One is that he's lying about his role and everything else- in which case we should lynch him, as there is no pro town reason for him to be doing so. The other is that he's telling the truth about his role and the mistakes he made- in which case we should make the best of a bad situation and decide, as a town, who he should vig.

And you going on about how "scummy" a dead townie is 1) distracting 2) convenient for a scum who is going about how "good" a wagon is. I think I echo Juls sentiments in saying that I'll be okay with either IP or MT, I think I'll have a tendency towards MT once I finish my re-read.

I see you as equally guilty of prolonging this argument, which I do find distracting. I dont see how what Don said was wrong- he said that Nameless did not do all that great a job as town, which is hard to argue with. He isnt saying that somehow magically saying Nameless was actually mafia, and its a bit of a stretch for you to keep perceiving it as such.

Juls is advocating a don or MT lynch, not an IP one. Why would you be for an IP or MT lynch after all you've said about don?

Suggestion about trackers: perhaps, if our tracker tracks someone who went out and they did not target a dead person, we have the tracker lie and said that they did not go out at night?

How would we be able to trust the people we think are trackers? If we could trust one, what is the point of lying now that you've brought it up in game? Anyone they peg as 'did not go out at night' is now vulnerable to scum suspicion that they are power roles.

If we ever decide to string up one of our trackers I think we should then ask because if there is a possible mass confirmation of townies than we can possibly more easily avoid mis-lynches...

Am I right that your idea here is that we let our possible trackers rack up a list of people they tracked without saying results, then have them list the results all at once before we kill them? There are lot of things wrong with this idea. For one, not to keep hammering the point, but we dont know if either of our 'trackers' is real. The longer we leave them around without trying to confirm the more likely that they can- if actually scum- do some real damage. Second, what good is a list kept in secret going to do for the townies on it if in the meantime we or the scum go after them. If they get lynched or nightkilled and only the tracker knew of their innocence, what good was the tracker? Finally and most pertinent, I'm not sure how long any such 'list' could be. Our numbers are rapidly dwindling, and every day that goes by is a chance for the scum to get rid of one of our claimed powerroles. With your plan, odds go up that one of them dies and we never get to see this list.

Also, when did you become so certain that both our role claims were telling the truth? Earlier, you flat out said you didn't believe Gera:

I don't believe Gera. Partially because of the redundancy and partially because 1 tracker result is easy enough to fake and a SK or mafia could easily sacrifice 1 nk. I also don't trust Gera to follow the tracker discussion that he decided was worthless to realize that IP is under serious consideration for lynch even if he just hits one tracker result wrong, and IP isn't a 1-shot tracker.

FOS Danchaofan

[Atronach]

I'm sorry to hear that Juls- I hope your daughter feels better soon.

[Atronach]

@Don- I was taking the 'clubbing' as flavor for a roleblocker.

I am not in favor of a mass claim- seems to me to be a good way to let ourselves be picked off one by one.

@Everyone- I understand Lylo to mean you must lynch scum or lose the game that day? I think that we'd only be in that state tomorrow, and that's IF we cant catch scum today. What am I missing?

[Atronach]

also, WHY DON"T YOU VIG ME? IT WOULD AT LEAST AVOID A MISLYNCH AND REMOVE ME FROM THE ACTUAL LYLO SCENARIO? maybe its because you can't...

Having him choose his own target completely defeats the purpose of having town direct the kill.

What I'd like from you, Don, at this point is clarification. Is gera still your vote for the day or do you want him to use his power? And if so, what target are you nominating?

[Atronach]

I didn't notice that until you said something Juls. Happy Birthday Spyrex.

I saw there was very little activity today. I, myself, was indisposed for most of the day. Big snow storm here. Point is, deadline is fast approaching. We need to decide on a lynch now, or we risk a no-lynch. We also need to decide on directing geraintm's vig shot. However, I want to hear Don's defense against your case before I vote anyone.

[Atronach]

@Don - What are these "two slips" you are talking about? You haven't responded to my question clarifying the last accusation.

This is becoming very distressing. Here's the deal, I am not going to vote Juls. That said, I go back and forth a lot on whether or not Don is scum. I am unconvinced. Juls, I fear that your obvious antagonism by Don colors some of your perception of him.

Three things:

I would be willing to vote for IP today. He is inactive and it seems he will only write into this game for night actions. The risk of him being mafia with a roleblock or tracker power is a reasonable fear at this point.

We still need to decide on geraintm. Would we rather he not vig anyone tonight?

I would be willing to vote for don_johnson if it avoids a no-lynch.

[Atronach]

don_johnson wrote:
atronach wrote:
I understand what you are saying, but are we just taking his word that he didn't use his vig attempt?

just pointing it out. your choice of words is suspicious.


I don't understand. What is suspicious about asking if we are just taking his word that he has the powers he has, or will tell the truth about them?

I asked this because I didn't understand where you were coming from, and I still don't. You've clarified that you think I showed some 'precognitve' awareness of what gera was going to say. I wasn't stating what I thought gera would do at all. I was respond to something Juls said in which she laid forth a hypothetical in which I saw a flaw- the flaw being that she would have to trust gera to make her hypothetical work. I was pointing out that we couldn't take geras word for these things.

he hasn't vig'd. why are you and he so positive he will get another chance? same question for atronach.

....Do you mean, because he might get killed by scum tonight? Of course that is a possibility; that is a possibility for all of us. I shouldn't have to put that forth in a statement; that should go without saying. I thought I had made my position pretty clear about gera: we should be lynching him, today, if we think he's scum. If not, we should be proving his role and taking another opportunity to take down scum by directing his kill.

if you are town i suggest you honor juls' request.

Why? That I believe Juls to be town does not ness. mean that she is right. I've stated as much.

[Atronach]

Also, after going back to read for clarification.

atronach: dan and porkens pointed out "slips" earlier. i am not voting you today. i am not going to waste time building a case, but your assumptino of a "scum" roleblocker...

You are not making sense again. If that is a slip, then please explain what you said in Post #498:

also, mega's predicament implies the existence of a mafia roleblocker which could block ger, or serve as a convenient excuse for ger if he is lying.

DCF pointed this out in Post #502, and for some reason made it look like I had said it. What I said about it was in Post #518:

The risk of him being mafia with a roleblock or tracker power is a reasonable fear at this point.

A risk, a reasonable fear; not an assumption.

sorry, what was the

"question"

you asked of me?

This, in bold, is why people are voting you for your behavior. The "question" is at the very beginning of Post #484.

...and your statement which seemed to show precognizance of what geraintim was going to post are the "slips" of which i speak.

Now that I understand what you were trying to say, I will clarify. Juls said in Post #464:

If geraintm did not send in a vig attempt then we can explore the Mafia+SK setup.

.

My response in Post #465:

I understand what you are saying, but are we just taking his word that he didn't use his vig attempt?

Pointing out that we cannot just take geraintm on his word that he did not use his vig attempt last night.

[Atronach]

I have said who I am willing to lynch, you are one of them. Lynching either one of you, in my opinion, puts us at lylo D3 leaning toward a loss if I'm not mistaken. However, even if town no one has done more to side-track this game than yourself. Here's something to alleviate the stress.

Vote: don_johnson

[Atronach]

[quote="dcf"]I'm sk with role blocking role

I don't know why you would say this. You can't have used your role-block and sent in a kill night one.

[Atronach]

Never thought someone would false claim my role of all things. Yes, I'm the SK. Well I am finding it hard to muster up motivation to play this last day since there's no way for me to win. So I have to choose between town and mafia winning? I would rather it be town, I think I would enjoy screwing over the mafia since I never got to kill one.

[Atronach]

Vote: DCF

[Atronach]

I can think of a way that town can win based off the wording in my win condition. I'm loath to say any more in the slim chance that Juls and Gera haven't figured it out.

Plus, the fact that you don't know my WC, but are still lying about your role leads me to believe you may have uncovered an angle I haven't about how to win. I'll have to think about this one...

[Atronach]

Okay, DCF, town figured out how they can win. If you kill me tonight, you know you're next on the chopping block anyway. What's to stop you from NOT roleblocking me, we each pick a townie and take them down?

[Atronach]

But he can't count on that. He can count on me targeting him. Handing town the win. I am proposing an alliance.

[Atronach]

You are assuming his win condition. None of us know that.

[Atronach]

Juls, I have just three things to say to you:

1) I have posted in this game every single day it's been open. You can call me a lot of things, but lurker isn't one of them.

2) You can use words like 'honesty' and 'tricking', but I think they look strange in a game of mafia. You play to win, and in mafia that sort of involves tricking people. I don't take it personally when it's done to me; I hope that goes the same for all. Anyway, I'm fighting till the end.

3) None of this takes away from the fact that this game has been a blast for me- I couldn't have asked for a better first game.

[Atronach]

unvote

btw

[Atronach]

Yes, just wanted to see what DCF says. If he says nothing, I have to assume he is going after me, so I'll go after him and town wins.

[Atronach]

Thanks for the great game everyone. I really did have a blast. Could not have asked for a better first game.

Plum

: I believe it is addressed in the quicktopic, but the reason we chose you for NK D1 is because we thought you had the best chance of outing us. Trying to get rid of the level-headed players, and keep the controversial:) ones in.

Juls:

I don't take any of this personally. I really enjoyed playing with you:) The reason I chose to false claim SK is because I was hoping to ride the momentum of your fast vote for DCF. Claiming SK allowed me to pretend I could not win, so did not care. I was hoping against hope that gera would get online over the weekend, we'd get a quick lynch on DCF before you guys had the time to consider how town could win. I really think that claiming vanilla town would have only worked if DCF had done so as well. Then gera would have had to pick from all three of us to see who was lying.

Porkens

: I had an awesome time being scumbuddies with you. I look forward to gaming with you in the future, just hope we're on the same side

geraintm

: I have been dying to ask this since N2 ended. Why did you pick Porkens for your Vig shot? IMO, that was the definitive action of the game.

Mod, thanks for letting me play. I hope you mod again. If you do, from the player's perspective I would consider: Allowing replacements. Great for my side, but it makes it hard for town. This isn't so bad except it is combined with fast deadlines. I love deadline games, and hope you end up keeping them, but perhaps lengthen them a bit.