Mini 730 - Hard Nights in the City - OVER!

[Juls]

EBWOP: Better yet....maybe IP should not even tell us his results until after we find 1 mafia and are about to lynch him. That way mafia can't pick off people based on his results.

[Nameless]

by my count, you sound like you have about half the town pegged as scum by now...

This is quite wrong and that accusation is one of my pet peeves so I'm going to go ahead and ignore it rather than spend half an hour compiling a town strategy rant. Okay?

@ Don, I "assumed" a three player scumteam because I noticed interactions between ... three players. I find it interesting that you ask the question to geraintm, rather than myself, though. Why was that?

#212, notice bovine assuming part of the setup based on flavour text (I still think that's a bad idea) ... and pretty much exaggerating what I said and ignoring my explanations.

Notice also that both Don and bovine are making it

extremely

clear they don't know how many scum there are.

#215, Mega's plan to deal with IP is a bad one because it relies on chance, but a probably good one because it ends with a dead IP and IP bussing a scumbuddy D2 if we're really lucky. But bad again because if we were actually stupid enough to plan lynches like that all the powerroles would just No Action and laugh as IP was lynched for free. But seriously, we can't reliably test IP's claim, I doubt IP's getting lynched now so we'll get back to that if he's alive D2 or 3, and I'll be suggesting one or two alternative lynches for D1 when I have more free time tomorrow. (Sneak Preview! If all else fails we policy lynch Porkens for lurking.)

Atronach, leading the doctor is a bad idea because it gives the scum a greater chance of getting their NK through (as they know who the doc is protecting). If there is a doc, ignore Atronach when making your decision. In fact, ignore me too, just on principle. (Psst, actually protect me, I'm on your side. )

Nice observations, guys. "Uncounterclaimed townie power role". Really, we get it. SPYREX'S eyes must hurt by now, nevermind those of us who actually have to carefully read every post.

Megatheory just encouraged a player not to post analysis. This is a bad suggestion for many reasons, at least several of which are obvious. And suggesting that IP would screw up explaining the power role he has or claimed is ... actually kind of insulting towards him.

An analysis from Juls! Well, it's much better than IP's effort. Let's see what she has to say about me.

[Nameless] does seem to throw a lot of things out there that could become confusing to town. If you read Nameless’s posts end-to-end he throws out a lot of allegations.

Yes. That and the judging reactions is how the town finds scum, and it is how I roll. Next.

Oh wait, that and some examples is it. Yeah, my suspicions of Mega were fairly mild, the way the wagon went worried me moreso (the comparative attention levels of don and mega being part of why). Greater suspicions on IP -> Wagon even more suspicious -> IP's reactions putting him ahead of the wagon again; that his flipping would help analysis the suspicious wagon is a lesser part of why I still think he needs to die sometime. (I do not play Mafia for it's simplicity, no.)

So as for the rest of it, I see you've been nice and technical with votes listed and everything, but generally the analysis is still rather ... general/light. Directionless, neutral perhaps. You only mention one or two things for each player, often older points and not what I'd consider the most notable. This is probably due to the style of analysis (rather than by events or a serious case against one player). Overall, still feeling slightly better about you for it, though, we'll see how you go from now. I'm interested in hearing what other players think about it.

You vote Dan, saying he hasn't scumhunted (pretty much true), though I think your flavour fishing accusation thing is stretching. But you know who else hasn't scumhunted? Porkens. You even say elsewhere that Plum is being to forgiving of him. What makes you think Porkens is more likely to be town than Dan? (I would call Dan a reasonable alternate lynch for today, anyway, if only for his unhelpfulness.)

[Juls]

What makes you think Porkens is more likely to be town than Dan? (I would call Dan a reasonable alternate lynch for today, anyway, if only for his unhelpfulness.)

I very much think that Porkens is being as unhelpful as Dan but I am not sure if it is laziness or scuminess. Porkens has been pretty straight about his "I hate day one" attitude. Dan comes off as posting filler which I think is a scumtell early in the game.

You only mention one or two things for each player, often older points and not what I'd consider the most notable. This is probably due to the style of analysis (rather than by events or a serious case against one player).

My goal was not to rehash everything that has already been said but to give some new feedback and get clarification on some things. Some of the agreements I noted were not necessarily "the biggest points" but ones I had something to add to. The post was already so damn long.

Oh wait, that and some examples is it. Yeah, my suspicions of Mega were fairly mild, the way the wagon went worried me moreso (the comparative attention levels of don and mega being part of why). Greater suspicions on IP -> Wagon even more suspicious -> IP's reactions putting him ahead of the wagon again; that his flipping would help analysis the suspicious wagon is a lesser part of why I still think he needs to die sometime. (I do not play Mafia for it's simplicity, no.)

My point on this is that if you throw every accusation in the book on the table you are just making noise. It's not about being simple, it's about editting and posting consistent arguments. I can understand one or two change of directions in your analysis but you seem to be wanting to hit both sides of every argument.

[insanepenguin02]

ip: please give us your opinion on nameless.

I have to say that the way he has been virtually unswayed by an uncountered tracker claim, has acted with quite a bit of sarcasm for some reason, has been focusing on very small sidenotes himself (such as me mentioning the weather - sorry you don't know my situation ), and his unclear arguements (such as the various WIFOM comments).

[insanepenguin02]

Unvote

The deadline is less than a week away. We need to decide

right now

if we're going to lynch penguin or not. I strongly suggest we table all other issues until we come to a consensus on this, or we will probably wind up slapping together a poorly informed lynch or even wind up no-lynching, and if either of those things happen, we have virtually no chance of winning. We've already put this off for too long.

Throwing around suspicion and discussing side issues can wait. We need to focus on this. Now.

I still think penguin is scum. Tracker is an easy role to fake and is the next logical choice for scum given the dead NPC cop and backup cop in the opening flavor. I think penguin is by far the best lynch for today, but I'm willing to compromise under the following conditions:

-Penguin can only get off the hook if he finds a player who targeted a dead player.
-If that player is lynched and comes up scum, penguin should be lynched unless he finds another player who targeted a dead player.
-This continues until penguin does not find a scum or three scum are dead. At that point, penguin is lynched.
-We guarantee that penguin does not survive until endgame.

This is pretty elaborate and is probably half-baked. I'm trying to prevent the town from developing stupid townie syndrome and letting penguin live based on some WIFOM bullshit or something like that. If any of you can think of a better test for penguin, I'd love to hear it.

I'm sure this should go without saying, but just in case: DO NOT CLAIM A POWERROLE AND SUGGEST THAT PENGUIN TARGET YOU TONIGHT.

Wow, quite the conditions there, mega. Now why would you want me lynched if I fail to find a second scum after I find one (theoretically) and he comes up scum? If I can get that lucky to track a mafia member night one, state that in day two, and it comes out correct, why would you want me lynched right away???? Wouldn't a pro-town member want to only lynch SCUM?? If I were to die, wouldn't you want the mafia to take me out so the town doesn't waste a lynch on one of their own?

This list of conditions in INCREDIBLY scummy IMO. Other thoughts by anybody?

[insanepenguin02]

EBWOP = Sorry, I didn't initially see that there were comments on this afterwards.

[don_johnson]

@ Don, I "assumed" a three player scumteam because I noticed interactions between ... three players. I find it interesting that you ask the question to geraintm, rather than myself, though. Why was that?

i asked geraintm to guage a reaction, to which i got what i consider a null tell. naming a scum team or pairing is bad on day 1. you are feeding mafia strategy. you have no real case against two of the three you name, and you refuse to draw out the connections you've made. i hope what you posted is not your connections, because by those accounts we are all connected. so if you do die tonight town is left to wonder and suddenly begins picking off the players you named in hopes of finding scum? is that your hope? that is extremely anti-town. the mega/don scum pairing was brought up, which is what prompted me to post the statement that juls can't seem to stomach. with two kills a night(three if town has a vig), lylo is way more of a possibility than you think, so my statement was simply good advice to town: don't bring a fallguy to lylo. it costs town the game more often than not. that being said i am happy to lynch you today.

*gets behind wagon, starts to push* "come on! let's lynch this guy!"

juls: good observation on dan. do you feel he has the best chance of flipping scum? because it doesn't seem like he would be a good informational lynch. your suspicions of me seem to waver a bit. i have explained the quote you question twice now. you do realize that day 3 could be lylo for town? i disagree with your ip plan, but i do think he should be left until tomorrow.

unless

he starts doing some actual scum hunting i say we almost have to get his results and lynch him sonner rather than later, regardless. it would be a nicer scenario if we lynch scum today. also, why would you assume someone countering ip's results to be scum? that makes no sense to me. in any case:

*hands juls a flier with a digitally enhanced picture of nameless swinging from a tree branch*

"vote nameless"

[insanepenguin02]

And to explain the tracker a little bit:

I can send in the name of somebody that I want to track or follow during the night phase. I don't believe that I will hear any specifics as to their role NOR will I hear what happened. I will just track somebody's movements. If it happens to be a townie with no night actions, I will probably be told that this person stayed home all night. I would get the same result if I target a mafia member that does not make the hit. If I track somebody that has a night action, it will tell me where they went. If I track somebody that visits the person killed during the night, it would be a good tell that they are mafia making the hit. If I track somebody that visits a person NOT killed, it would be a good tell that they are somebody like the doctor or another pro-town power role.

So there is a lot of chance, I guess. IMO, not the easiest thing to claim if I were actually scum. For the good of the town, I shouldn't have posted what I did earlier by asking so many questions and looking suspicious in so many of your eyes' because then I could have lived a few more days and given the town some very good info, I would imagine. But now I am targeted by fellow townies (I would assume) who want me lynched EVEN AFTER A POSSIBLE GOOD TRACK IN NIGHT ONE and obviously would be targeted by the mafia due to being a power role.

[Porkens]

Nice PBPA by juls. (I

suspect

(well, suspected at the time) that IP was town.)

Between the Don/Nameless/Ger conversation, the last few interactions, I believe, have gone into namelesses corner.

[don_johnson]

So there is a lot of chance, I guess. IMO, not the easiest thing to claim if I were actually scum. For the good of the town, I shouldn't have posted what I did earlier by asking so many questions and looking suspicious in so many of your eyes' because then I could have lived a few more days and given the town some very good info, I would imagine. But now I am targeted by fellow townies (I would assume) who want me lynched EVEN AFTER A POSSIBLE GOOD TRACK IN NIGHT ONE and obviously would be targeted by the mafia due to being a power role.

it is wifom like this that keeps me from embracing you as town. rather than whining about it and living in the past, the best thing you can do is start scum hunting. you need to change players minds about you, not just keep apologizing and regretting your behavior. also, as a townie you should be less concerned with your own demise. your death will vindicate you if you are who you say you are, and will also serve to confirm whoever it is you choose to target. that said:


*hands juls a flier with a digitally enhanced picture of nameless swinging from a tree branch*

"vote nameless"

Between the Don/Nameless/Ger conversation, the last few interactions, I believe, have gone into namelesses corner.

care to elaborate? your only defense at this point that you are not scum is that you are lazy. do you plan on playing like this the entire game?

[don_johnson]

ebwop: sorry copy/pasted: should read *hands ip a flier...*

porkens: "here's yours" **hands porkens a flier with a digitally enhanced picture of nameless swinging from a tree branch*

[Juls]

This will likely be my last post for the day as I have guests coming soon. Will catch up on everything tomorrow but to don_johnson, I don't think nameless is quiet as suspicious as you do. Based on what nameless has done thus far in D1 I don't see my vote going to him at this point. As I said I agree that he is muddying the waters with some of his arguments but as of right now I am not willing to say he is scum.

[Porkens]

your only defense at this point that you are not scum is that you are lazy. do you plan on playing like this the entire game?

What do you want? An un-cc'd claim? Some kind of proof? Gimmie a break.

No, I don't.

[don_johnson]

your only defense at this point that you are not scum is that you are lazy. do you plan on playing like this the entire game?

What do you want? An un-cc'd claim? Some kind of proof? Gimmie a break.

No, I don't.

i would like some more analysis. that is all. i was not implying that you are scum, just pointing out that you seem to be enjoying playing on the fringe. the question was somewhat rhetorical. i don't know you, but i am expecting you to contribute more.

also:

*hands porkens a button that says "vote nameless"*

i am getting quite the loner vibe from nameless. i know his "off track" posting may not seem scummy to most, but with the flavor of the first nk's and his pointing to a three person scum team with no real connections and then refusing to comment further on it points to sk. at least for me. its worth a shot. ip is by no means "clear" in my mind, i just see more value in him as a day 2 lynch if we choose to go that route. live scum can prove helpful in flushing out more scum, if you get my meaning.

[Porkens]

Tell me more about this "loner" vibe...?

[don_johnson]

Tell me more about this "loner" vibe...?

for starters:

Screw it. I'm saying this much in case I die N1, but don't expect me to elaborate further unless one of them flips scum: Possible insanepenguin02 - canadianbovine - don_johnson scumteam. That is all.

the "if i die" speculation should be reserved for twilight, and even then, should be fully explained. why do i use the term "lonely"? because to me, fear of nightkill is a shared dilemma. we are all at risk of dying at night, to single yourself out is suspicious.

also, wanting to lynch an uncc'ed tracker on day 1 is like saying "we(i) don't need any help in this game." town needs help. mafia and sk do not.

Yeesh. I make one sidenote and suddenly it's FLAME ON.

"poor me, why is everyone picking on me?" there are in truth only a couple of us who responded to these posts. so yeah, i feel like nameless has isolated himself.

[insanepenguin02]

don - You have an intriguing case building. Looking back over nameless's posts, I can see where that "vibe" you are getting is coming from.

*Take the handout from don_johnson , folds it up, and puts it in the right, back pants pocket*

[don_johnson]

don - You have an intriguing case building. Looking back over nameless's posts, I can see where that "vibe" you are getting is coming from.

*Take the handout from don_johnson , folds it up, and puts it in the right, back pants pocket*

are you kidding? please show us where you "can see where that "vibe" you are getting is coming from.". piggybacking on my case makes you look even worse. you do realize that, don't you?

[Megatheory]

I want us to focus on dealing with insanepenguin because I can see us not having a workable solution until the absolute last mintue, if at all. Excuse the hell out of me for trying to keep the town on task and preventing (for the millionth fucking time) a hastily thrown together lynch. Discussion is going in eight different directions at once. How are we going to decide on this if everyone is talking about completely different things?

There's a lot that I would love to post, but I'm not posting any of it yet because it could very easily drown out the more important discussion regarding penguin. I can already see that happening. There are a number of people who aren't responding to potential solutions or providing solutions of their own.

This issue is being ignored

.

Can we just focus on penguin until Monday? Is a couple days of focus really too much to ask? Wouldn't it be better to have those remaining days focusing on finding a new lynch candidate instead of taking even more shots at penguin?

I could be completely wrong about this, but if I'm right and we wind up with a bad lynch or no lynch at all, you have no one but yourselves to blame.

My Suggestion for the InsanePenguin tracker claim

I think for the IP tracker situation it should be handled like this. Leave him alive today. If there is a doctor out there, you can choose whether or not you feel he warrants protection. Each day IP can tell us who he targeted and what the result was. I suggest the town notes it and but does not make it their sole reason for voting. DO NOT COUNTER HIS RESULTS CLAIM, IF YOU DO, I WILL ASSUME YOU TO BE SCUM. After we have caught one mafia, we can lynch IP, he will hopefully have served his purpose by then and we will be able to confirm his role. Once he is lynched we will know if his night results were true or not and then we can use them at that point in our analysis. I suggest finding one mafia first because we can be relatively certain there are at least two mafia. So there is no need to lynch IP until we find the other one. Does that make sense? I realize there may be more but if there are only two we will have found the first one and if IP is the second we will get a quick lynch and have either 2/3 or be game over. Thoughts?

The problem with this is there is no guarantee we can find the first scum. What if we get to lylo and penguin is still alive? Do we lynch him and risk losing by lynching a *gasp*

uncounterclaimed powerrole????

Of course, we won't. Once we get to lylo, we will never be able to lynch penguin. It won't happen.

#215, Mega's plan to deal with IP is a bad one because it relies on chance, but a probably good one because it ends with a dead IP and IP bussing a scumbuddy D2 if we're really lucky. But bad again because if we were actually stupid enough to plan lynches like that all the powerroles would just No Action and laugh as IP was lynched for free. But seriously, we can't reliably test IP's claim, I doubt IP's getting lynched now so we'll get back to that if he's alive D2 or 3, and I'll be suggesting one or two alternative lynches for D1 when I have more free time tomorrow. (Sneak Preview! If all else fails we policy lynch Porkens for lurking.)

What is your suggestion then? I'd love to just lynch penguin now and get it over with, but we aren't going to get our way today. We need to compromise. How are we going to prevent penguin from solidifying his claim without actually being a tracker?

Wow, quite the conditions there, mega. Now why would you want me lynched if I fail to find a second scum after I find one (theoretically) and he comes up scum? If I can get that lucky to track a mafia member night one, state that in day two, and it comes out correct, why would you want me lynched right away???? Wouldn't a pro-town member want to only lynch SCUM?? If I were to die, wouldn't you want the mafia to take me out so the town doesn't waste a lynch on one of their own?

This list of conditions in INCREDIBLY scummy IMO. Other thoughts by anybody?

I still think you are scum, so I'm trying to prevent you from turning over a scum partener and guaranteeing your survival until endgame. Tracker is an easy role to fake and does not have such a high value that we absolutely, positively must keep you alive.

P. S. Where the hell is ChaosOmega?

[Plum]

Unvote

As much of my previous supicion of Juls was based on her lack of contribution, hypocrisy, etc., I don't believe that vote is fully appropriate at this time.

General note: I am concerned you might be letting Nameless and Porkens off the hook a little because you have played with them in the past. For instance, I feel you have voted me for much less than what has been noted (and agreed with by you) on Nameless and Porkens. Take it for what you will.

I see your point, and I probably should take that into consideration and avoid it as much as possible. My problem is probably greater with Porkens (I've played with him when we were both town and he seemed scummy to many townies) than with Nameless (who looked very townie as scum when I played with him . . .). Nevertheless, point made and stands.

You make a decent point about DCF not scumhunting much. We actually need a bit more face-showing out of him, Geraintm, Atronach and ChaosOmega and CB and . . . that's it, I suppose, except for asking Porkens for more actual substance. Grrr, multiple lurky players.

Penguin and what we should do with him:

1. He scumhunts or he dies, I think. Penguin, if you don't want to be lynched and you want to help the town, the best thing you can do on both counts is help find scum to lynch today. If you want to help the town I am

expecting

good scumhunting of your own. Not only mindless-looking parroting (see below); real scumhunting is what I'm calling for right now.

2. Otherwise, Mega's plan sounds about as fair and decent as we're going to get. It give us room to potentially get some useful info on the scum before lynching a potential powerrole but makes sure we don't have IP alive longer than would be useful, and certainly not have him around in LYLO, which would be extremel detrimental.

3. Unless we suddenly get loaded with a bunch more hugely scummy suspects, but let's burn that bridge when we get to it.

Nice PBPA by juls. (I

suspect

(well, suspected at the time) that IP was town.)

Between the Don/Nameless/Ger conversation, the last few interactions, I believe, have gone into namelesses corner.

Er - I can't tell exactly what you mean by this. Explain please?

don - You have an intriguing case building. Looking back over nameless's posts, I can see where that "vibe" you are getting is coming from.

*Take the handout from don_johnson , folds it up, and puts it in the right, back pants pocket*

are you kidding? please show us where you "can see where that "vibe" you are getting is coming from.". piggybacking on my case makes you look even worse. you do realize that, don't you?

That. That right there. If you want to agree with someone, fine, but this goes beyond lack of contribution and looks plain scummy. Tell us what you find scummy about Nameless. This post just epitomizesthe lack of scumhunting from you since . . . since before your claim, if I recall.

Back to Nameless: What I said on your scumteam call, let me dig it up:

Agree with DonJ here and holy flipping turnaround Batman! on that scumpairing call after you dismissed them as usually not pro-town. If you wanted to actually help the town with your speculations (and it's dubious how much they would be able to help anyway) you would wait until Twilight, when, if one of those three had been lynched and flipped scum, you might mention them as suspects, or, if you wanted to make sure you got them in before the thread was locked, you might have waited until it looked like we were in a serious L-1 situation with one of them to mention connections.

Your response to my assertation that this was not the time or way to bring up scumteam speculation:

To clarify slightly, there are several things from each of the three players I listed that makes me somewhat suspect they are connected. I'm not seriously accusing them or suggesting they be lynched (well, IP independently aside), merely noting the possibility might warrant looking into by others later. Independently, there are others I consider scummier. I say these now, because I noticed another that I considered plausible enough to warrant brief mention for somebody else to look into later if I'm NKed (as anyone could be, I don't expect to be or not to be for any particular reason), but obviously not serious enough to warrant the distraction from other discussion D1. Quick note for the future and moving on not equal encouraging others to start seriously discussing this now (such as IP #153).

You did not address my point that waiting until Twilight or at least until L-1 of a serious bandwagon might have been the right time to do this if you were doing it mostly out of fear that you might be NK'd Night 1. You've scumteam-speculated Day 1 as scum before (I checked!) and you knew well how distracting and detrimental it could be to the town. I know I did. If you really wanted to help the town with your speculations you would have waited till Twilight or L-1 at least and wouldn't have risked distracting the town.

Also, wait wait:

I'll be suggesting one or two alternative lynches for D1 when I have more free time tomorrow. (Sneak Preview! If all else fails we policy lynch Porkens for lurking.)

Why Porkens as opposed to other lurkers who have done other somewhat scummy things? DCF also falls into that category, as Geraintm and CB or CO might. There are plenty of policy lynches for lurking out there. Why do you mention Porkens specifically?

Screw it. Can't remember if this has been brought up yet etc. If it has, I'm sorry for being redundant. Thought, as per the rest of this post, that if I wasn't going to do an extensive reread of Porkens now at least it would be beneficial to skim his posts in isolation.

vote: insanguin

I think it's time for a claim, pengy.

I don't want to/will not regurgitate what you all have already said. I've decided that yes, penguin should claim or die, based on the cases

you people

have presented.

I've got no real reason to believe penguin is scum. In fact, the scummiest things he has done, in my opinion, has been since his wagon fell apart. But, even these are moot.

I understand that the last post I quoted came after the claim. Still, you said that you agreed with the case on IP and wouldn't regurgutate it and later state that there's no reason to believe IP's scum? I don't think it's too unlikely that the claim's true etc., but I certainly believe there's real reason to believe he well may be scum. What do you mean here? This looks incriminatingly contradictory.

Am currently unsure whether I more want my vote on Nameless or Porkens (well, there you seem to have it, Juls ); IP on actions is still scummiest, but still don't want to lynch him today, see above. Gut says vote Nameless. Probably in my next post, unless he addresses fully above suspicion of him (regarding why he scumteam spculated when there was no immediate danger of him getting NK'd before he could tell us his suspicions (we weren't at a serious L-1 or anything) and when there was every chance it could distract the town . . .

The Stuck in a thumb, and pulled out a Plum! Votecount:

Mod, I feel so famous . What timezone is PST again? I want to make sure I actually know when deadline is going to hit.

[Nameless]

@ Juls, you say posting filler is a scumtell specifically in the early game because in the endgame there is less to go on ... ? [/Sceptical] Being honest about being scummy (noncontribution, putting someone you suspected was townie at L-1 and lying that you were swayed by arguments ... can we double policy lynch Porkens now?) should not get you a free pass. (Also, see, I'd have thought suspecting and considering everything would be a good thing, but I'm so glad to know that my efforts are being handwaved as "noise".)

@ IP, I

like

sarcasm. *Double thumbs up!* Also, I had to focus on your "very small sidenote" because it was the ONLY (non)explanation for your lack of scumhunting. And if you're going to say my arguments are unclear or WIFOM, give reasoned examples.

@ Don, first you say I'm "feeding mafia strategy" by daring to mention something for later, but then accuse me of refusing to elaborate ... which is what you've been calling scummy in the first place. Do you WANT me to

actually

feed mafia strategy? One last time guys, noting possible connections for future consideration not equal seriously claiming I've found a three man scum team. Everybody else seeing Don's strawman here? Good. (Also, I work under the basic assumption the town aren't as retarded as you make them out to be, and will not mindlessly lynch a player because one townie noted some connections earlier.) The fliers are a nice touch, though.

I hope everybody else is noticing IP now saying he shouldn't have asked questions earlier and still not scumhunting whatsoever.

... loner vibe? SK? I am actually (Out Of Game) impressed by the epic level stretching Don is doing here. Keep up the good work, and OM

G

US.

Mega's determination to focus on IP is ... weird. Particular the part where he is quick to insist IP wouldn't be lynched in LyLo. Here's a reasonable suggestion: We lynch IP when we run out of other scummy players to lynch or we reach possible LyLo and IP is still looking scummy.

You did not address my point that waiting until Twilight or at least until L-1 of a serious bandwagon might have been the right time to do this if you were doing it mostly out of fear that you might be NK'd Night 1. You've scumteam-speculated Day 1 as scum before (I checked!) and you knew well how distracting and detrimental it could be to the town.

I made the (basically spur of the moment) comment at the time that the level of connections reached the point where I felt it deserved a quick note. And for what it's worth, I think the apparent meta of not doing so is overrated (but let's not go into that) and I've made serious attempts to actually call the scumteam D1 as the uninformed majority before, with less comment than what I've suddenly had in this game. (Mini 672)

And I say Porkens because Porkens self admittedly hasn't tried to contribute much (this irritates me regardless of alignment) and because of the instant L-1 when Porkens now even admits he suspected IP was town.

Can't help but notice that right after Plum is accused of going easy on two players, she claims to be tossing up between voting those two players. But doesn't vote either of them. Right.

[Nameless]

So anyway, I propose we lynch one of the following players:

Porkens

, for lurking and the dubious L-1.

Danchaofan

, for saying VERY little but filler (see Juls's #224), especially after comments like "if I don't see scum hunting, eventually, I'll be serious.".

don_johnson

, for the self vote, following overly long/pointless discussion, following mega vote and the awful "wifomic? yes. but only until my death." self pairing THING, still disagree with the way he jumped on the IP bandwagon with what I see as the (then exagerated) smallest reason, seriously arguing semantics (eg. #172), frequently using "wifomic" to cast false suspicion on arbitrary players/posts, for a second time exagerating and pushing a single minor point as the only reason to lynch somebody (that's me!), make it overly clear that he doesn't know the scum setup, trying to partially direct the doc (#220), aaaaaand epic stretching by taking a cassual comment ("Yeesh ...") as serious evidence that someone (me again) is SK.

Or maybe

ChaosOmega

as a fallback, unless he appears with a good excuse for vanishing and a better analysis of everything that has happened since then.

[Atronach]

[quote: Plum]We actually need a bit more face-showing out of him, Geraintm, Atronach and ChaosOmega and CB and . . . that's it, I suppose, except for asking Porkens for more actual substance. Grrr, multiple lurky players.[/quote]

BS. I have posted every day. I work 50+ hours a week, so this is probably the level of activity you can expect from me. I'll do my best to make my posts quality if not quantity.

There's a lot that I would love to post, but I'm not posting any of it yet because it could very easily drown out the more important discussion regarding penguin.

I agree that figuring out what we are going to do about IP is important. However, it is not helpful to hold back your analysis of others, and worse to discourage others from doing so.

I'd love to just lynch penguin now and get it over with, but we aren't going to get our way today. We need to compromise. How are we going to prevent penguin from solidifying his claim without actually being a tracker?

Where are you getting this idea from? I certainly have not made my mind up one way or the other. If you think IP is the best lynch for tonight, make your case and make your vote.

This seems like a good time to go back and reread so I can make my own case. I will have some analysis in my next post.

[Nameless]

EBWOP: Eh, you know what, let's give Chaos the benefit of the doubt until D2, since he hasn't posted anywhere else on the site and could have RL issues. I think most of us would agree Danchaofan is a good deadline lynch if there's no other consensus before then.

[Porkens]

@Megatheory: Lynching Penguin right now is, unfortunetly (:lol:), not the right way to go. I know getting someone to L-1 (you're welcome) and then having it fall apart is frustrating, but getting to L-1 isn't a scumtell. And claiming a power role like tracker (with no CC) is a pretty fine reason to let someone live till Day 2. Maybe the scum will kill him, maybe not, maybe they'll try and get blocked, maybe not. It's really not important. The important thing is that we focus on other avenues at this time. If you want to hammer out what we do with Penguin: Let him live until we have reason to suspect that he is lying about his claim.

@Plum: You asked me what I meant by "the last few interactions going to Nameless." Nameless and Don, and a bit Ger too, were having a talk about WIFOM. I meant that I agreed with Nameless: it wasn't wifom to begin with. Don seemed to be arguing from the stance that Nameless' main arguments were WIFOM. They were not.

About penguin; Yeah, instead of talking about "gut" or "vibes" I said "real reasons." The L-1 vote was to get pressure and to keep the day moving. I love keeping Day-1s hot and fast in general and what you guys had been saying about penguin contradicting himself etc. was good enough at the time to force a claim. Now there is simply more evidence that he is town rather than scum. But that doesn't mean there was ever any hard evidence to begin with that somehow got controverted.

@Nameless: Here's some terrible meta for you: I

usually

think people are town, and chances are they will be on day 1.