open 894: near vanilla (game over)

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

sup noobs i am here to save ya'all from losing a won game

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also bella was obviously town

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

never kill ower tomorrow

im tempted to sheep this but ive also never fucked up an elo in my life

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i have a cool trick to prove im town btw

if two of you vote for someone ill log on and say hey im town and that hammer test will prove im town so we can skip the whole "oh no is pooky a fucking scumbag" or not song and dance

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I recognize this would in fact immediately resolve in a town loss if im actually mafia

but since i can see my role pm and I see im town you dont have to worry about that shit

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

im ngl tho I am tempted to just sheep the fuck out of Dannflor cuz dude clearly cares more than I do and he got shot at night lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

where did every1 go lets hammer out this win

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

oh, i forgot about your vt claim. i should have trusted my instinct and healed dannflor. sorry.

wow AK was hard throwing when he claimed doc then

VOTE: bella but im not gonna be salty if yall wanna lim me. as long as tired person can clutch a protect at night i'm willing to be today's lim

scum literally just shoots TP tonight and wins what are you talking about?

even in the event you're unaware that doc's can't heal themselves, why would you, as a townie, be fine with being elimmed to gamble on a 1 in 3 shot that just puts us right back in ELO?

What
I'm pretty suredocs can heal themselves

it would be pretty funny if this is the reason you didnt shoot the claimed doctor

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Maybe not that exact thought process but it doesn't seem wild that a newbie would just default to shooting the most prominent threat every night without putting much thought into it, especially in a scenario it seems like victory is out of reach.

i guess to me jupiterxv's 'i'd just be submitting nightkills there would be bodies and clears' does seem like the likely newbie default here to me

at least from night 3 on right

like night one t3 gets jailed maybe kill was blocked
night two could see the newbie defaulting to shooting the most prominent threat, titus, who was then saved
at this point, following that thought process, i would think the newbie would think, oh i need to target someone else to get a kill through, or at the very least the night following that one

like it doesn't seem impossible to me that a newbie would have any number of other approaches, and like skygazer said much earlier t3 could have left gameplan as well,

but i will blindly submit titus until i lose hoping something else happens does not seem like the default to me no

this kind of worries me tho

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok seriously tho do you guys actually want me to reread the whole game or what

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok what do you actually want my opinion on

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok seriously tho do you guys actually want me to reread the whole game or what

uh I guess maybe you could read like, D1, D2, and then yesterday

the only days that really like, mattered I guess, because every other day was mostly autopiloting whoever Titus had jailed

ok what would the point be

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i think you implied that you think it's jupiter but i am not sure if the only reason is sheeping dannflor or something else also.

mostly dannflor and nka - like why does outworldER shoot dannflor if dannflor's last words to the thread are "never kill outworldER"

like the only reason would be to lock in reads and he's worried dannflor will 180 the read again AND he is also highly sure the rest of you are too demotivated to try to overturn thread consensus.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like maybe its to frame jupiter ? feels a very roundabout way to do it

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pooky do you think Bella would have a reason to kill dann

bruh i have her role pm its town

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i dont even understand the point of the question

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like if bella is mafia maybe she shoots dannflor because she is worried he will re-eval on her like he said he would at eod.

or maybe she believes you and shoots you tho i dunno if she would your act at eod looked kinda fake as f

or maybe she shoots doctor claimer dude.

i honestly dunno what she would do with a gun at that game state cuz i dont even know her that well.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

outworld I can't sort you in real time if you don't interact with me in real time

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like I get this game is a long ass slog that's been going on for *checks notes* 2 months and you all lost any willpower to play but since you've invested the better part of 2 months into the game let's get together and try to win it instead of mailing it in on a prayer

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

me rereading d1 and seeing that you guys actually eliminated Aisa/Skygazer and Jupiter/OutworldER are still alive rofl this town might deserve to lose

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

outworldER's posting straight up feels like openwolfing in D1

he pushes an exclusively town POE early - early townreads T3 on some stretchy ass logic - his questions to Black look like they are badly done distancing and not like he has any actual intent to sort her

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I have no clue why Dannflor would say to never kill this guy I've been through his iso three times and none of it screams definitely town to me

Dann why are you do me like this

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm going to VOTE: Kurtapika here to consolidate. I'm comfortable here or on shaddowez.

I absolutely hate this because voting solely to consolidate feels like he's pushing the blame for what happens if this wagon goes thru to "well it was just for consolidation!"

note here that this is fifth vote in this game state;

VOTE COUNT 1.6 !

Kurtapika (5): Titus, Dannflor, Bellaphant, Aisa, OutWorldER
shaddowez (2): JupiterXV, Black
Bellaphant (1): T3
T3 (1): Nono
Dannflor (1): Skygazer
JupiterXV (1): shaddowez
Skygazer (1): Kurtapika
Black (1): Afrayed Knott

not voting (1): ProjEctRy

with Dannflor/Titus both pushing Kurta at this point and being loud in thread about it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Hi, I return. Apologies for the absence. Here's a wall of quotes I wanted to respond to while catching up

Spoiler: Quotes Wall

Not sure I agree with OutWorldER at 211 . In fact I don’t agree. Getting to the content I don’t agree that saying you would need a lot to switch reads is not town.

That wasn't the way he phrased it to me though. He said it would be a "pretty big swing to switch those reads right now" which reads to me like he's judging how jarring other townies would find his switch, not that he was dissatisfied with the evidence presented.

Right, in regards to catching up. I want to note in particular that OutWorldER's responses overall are giving me a strong tr on him, and as far as D1 reads go it's the most solid I currently have.
-SNIP-

Could you elaborate on why you're townreading me? If it's the strongest read you have, then I think you should be able to articulate it. Frankly, I myself aren't so sure what exactly I've done so far that exudes towniness.

I understand the scum reads on Jupiter

I think they have a posting style that is very stream of consciousness and somewhat performative and I tend to scum read that type of posting style a lot. But idk currently I feel that is more a sign of personality than a sign of alignment in this game

But like I *get* it

What, specifically, in Jupiter's posting allows you to make the distinction between alignment and personality?

Kurtapika > T3 > Black

these are dannflor approved wagons in about the order i feel comfortable wagoning them

What is your Black case, again? I'm not sure if I missed it while trying to read back up but I couldn't find where you give an exact reason for suspecting Black.

I'm kind of torn because I think Dann is a comfortable townread for me right now, but I also feel like Kurta's move onto Skygazer could be genuine, and the over-justification is simply a symptom of being in an unfamiliar meta. But even that said, they're a nullish read for me at best right now, voting low-content/low-activity slots is a very classic scum move to appear townie, and I'm general agreement with Dann here that the very diluted votes here and sheer amount of vanity votes is hurting Town's ability to read the game.

I'm going to VOTE: Kurtapika here to consolidate. I'm comfortable here or on shaddowez.

ok read what is in the spoilered quote box and tell me if you see something that doesnt make sense to you

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

btw if you slackers decide to afk all the way to the deadline again and then boohoo cant put votes together to yeet someone because everyone fell asleep im gonna be super annoyed i bothered to spend time on this shit

pick a time to be online so we can actually do this

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm ngl I havent even bothered to read Jupiter's iso but the way OutworldER has treated T3 in the first 600 posts of this game makes me feel like he is obviously mafia and I dont understand how he is still alive today

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

as someone who's played quite a bit with Scum!T3 I'll even make a prediction about what the conversation in the Scum PT looked like:


T3: Hi Guys, I'm kind of limbait as mafia and I expect to die early so just bus me or something ok?
Black: It's ok I will carry you because I'm the scumqueen and I will protect my subjects - let's instead try to townbin you into the townbloc.
OutworldER: haha great plan I'll townread you right away for "trying to start conversation"
Black: Cool i'll do it too
OuterworldER: Ok I'm gonna ask you a pointless question about it to "distance" and get our positioning to look good.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

T3 is probably town.

Curious to hear why you think so

Trying to jumpstart discussion in RVS, even if on a fairly reachy basis, feels fairly townie to me. In general I think scum are more likely to wait for other people to start pushing wagons rather than try to jumpstart one themselves. I also think the reachiness of it is actually +town since I feel like scum would probably be angling for a good first impression here.

^ this is such a reach to make about an early townread but the bonus kicker is this conversation between him and black 2 pages later;

I feel good about Aisa so far. It feels like she's engaging with people in a cooperative and amicable way and it feels like she's trying to genuinely figure them out

I like T3 here too. 15 feels like he's mocking bella considering his read in 26 which is kinda mean but not necessarily scum indicative. I like Project's read on T3 in 91 and I had similar thoughts when reading through, so I like Project so far as well

I agree with OWER's read on Jupiter in 86 and I like how inquisitive and engaged OWER feels

Nothing is really pinging me as scummy yet

Your T3 read feels odd here, as 91, a post you say you had similar thoughts to, voices suspicion on T3. You say you like T3, but your only point is early posts for which your only point is "not necessarily scum indicative". What has T3 done that is townie, in your opinion?

I don't think this question makes sense at all here

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

hi i'm alive., sorry for the inactivity ive been goin through it recently. prodge for the time being but i will be back in 2-3 hours or so to catch up and respond to things, will do things soon. welcome pookythemagicalbear

I have guests coming over so I won't be around in 2-3 hours.

I will be online from 9am EST monday to 2pm EST monday as well as monday night to chat.

I can also chat tonight around 9pm EST

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

VOTE: jupiter

why

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

im ngl i confbiased myself while driving into thinking outworld is mafia

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm going to VOTE: Kurtapika here to consolidate. I'm comfortable here or on shaddowez.

I absolutely hate this because voting solely to consolidate feels like he's pushing the blame for what happens if this wagon goes thru to "well it was just for consolidation!"

note here that this is fifth vote in this game state;

VOTE COUNT 1.6 !

Kurtapika (5): Titus, Dannflor, Bellaphant, Aisa, OutWorldER
shaddowez (2): JupiterXV, Black
Bellaphant (1): T3
T3 (1): Nono
Dannflor (1): Skygazer
JupiterXV (1): shaddowez
Skygazer (1): Kurtapika
Black (1): Afrayed Knott

not voting (1): ProjEctRy

with Dannflor/Titus both pushing Kurta at this point and being loud in thread about it.

At the time Dann was also loudly complaining about everybody pushing their own vanity wagons and everybody saying that "they were having trouble finding scumreads" and I was pretty sure both Dann and Titus were town so I got on board to be a team player.

Note that I also jumped off when when Dann presented a theory that Kurta might be a mislim even when Titus still wanted him

T3 is probably town.

Curious to hear why you think so

Trying to jumpstart discussion in RVS, even if on a fairly reachy basis, feels fairly townie to me. In general I think scum are more likely to wait for other people to start pushing wagons rather than try to jumpstart one themselves. I also think the reachiness of it is actually +town since I feel like scum would probably be angling for a good first impression here.

^ this is such a reach to make about an early townread but the bonus kicker is this conversation between him and black 2 pages later;

I feel good about Aisa so far. It feels like she's engaging with people in a cooperative and amicable way and it feels like she's trying to genuinely figure them out

I like T3 here too. 15 feels like he's mocking bella considering his read in 26 which is kinda mean but not necessarily scum indicative. I like Project's read on T3 in 91 and I had similar thoughts when reading through, so I like Project so far as well

I agree with OWER's read on Jupiter in 86 and I like how inquisitive and engaged OWER feels

Nothing is really pinging me as scummy yet

Your T3 read feels odd here, as 91, a post you say you had similar thoughts to, voices suspicion on T3. You say you like T3, but your only point is early posts for which your only point is "not necessarily scum indicative". What has T3 done that is townie, in your opinion?

I don't think this question makes sense at all here

It's a reach but it's also literally the 44th post of the game, in RVS.

What about the question doesn't make sense?

the way you engage around other people's reads of T3 do not feel like how a townie would

like if I'm town and I townread T3 and other people are shading the shit out of him and saying he's mafia I try to engage with them to talk out their reads or I change my mind on my read of T3 - i don't see it from you
regarding your question to black;

what I don't do is ask other players who

agree

with my read to flesh out their read because the motivation behind the engagement doesnt make sense to me - fwiw I dont really see how you followed up with Black in thread on that read - its like you were doing it to distance and then kind of dropped it.

Lastly I don't think you voting Kurta makes sense in a world where you townread T3 and the players are saying T3/Kurta are S/S because in that world you at least believe they are wrong on T3 so why would they be right on Kurta?

- instead you just vote Kurtapika when he/t3 are being lumped as scum/scum together and that makes a helluva lot of sense in the world where T3!scum/Kurta!town because you're using the townies push on Kurta to get a misyeet and

also

disprove their theory that Kurta+T3 are S/S since you know Kurta will flip town and that can help relieve pressure on T3.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pooky, i want to know what you think about jupiter in isolation.

i havent actually isoed or read jupiter in depth but the brief snippets I skimmed are all over the place and im p bad at reading people who r all over the place.


i've been thinking over and over whether it makes sense for Jupiter!scum to do some LAMIST gambit at EOD yesterday where he's like yo just vote me out i dont want to be at elo and gambling the town doesnt take him up on the gamble and I really do not know if he has the skills to pull that move there with a roomread.

what I really hate is how outworld reacted to it right there and then and said it must be coming from Town!Jupiter and then Dannflor was like hell no.

It feels like over the top TMI on outworld's part because like how do you suddenly get that lvl of surety that its not a gambit?

comparing the two of them I feel like Jupiter is

suffering

more than Outworld is and I would expect the townie in the pair to be suffering because this is not a pleasant experience if you're town to go 9 days of not knowing wtf is going on. Outworld's vibe is that he's in control and he has a plan and that feels scummy to me

i gtg guests r here lets actually play the game tonight

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i think you implied that you think it's jupiter but i am not sure if the only reason is sheeping dannflor or something else also.

mostly dannflor and nka - like why does outworldER shoot dannflor if dannflor's last words to the thread are "never kill outworldER"

like the only reason would be to lock in reads and he's worried dannflor will 180 the read again AND he is also highly sure the rest of you are too demotivated to try to overturn thread consensus.

ok yeah but why would i kill dannflor as scum im not as oblivious to NKA as to just.... openly kill sm1 who scumreads me ????? i mean maybe to make this exact argument but idfk man. (rhetorical question btw)

also posting is a pain on the ass on mobile so if i miss anything lemme know.

well sure its wifom but also If you believe Dannflor is going to be gunning for you and he's clearly the loudest voice in the thread then your best bet is to shoot him at night so he doesnt live to today and push you.

sure it looks bad for you but that's just kind of the price you pay because if you leave him alive and he hardshoves you you might die from that. I dunno how much you know about dannflor's meta to know about whether he's overstating confidence or bluffing or posturing in order to manipulate the nightkill - afaik you are a total n00b to this site and have not much experience with Dannflor so you wouldn't know if you can gamble that he's lying about reads - heck I've played plenty of games with Dannflor and I don't know whether his statement about OWER is geniune belief or some kind of gambit.

im also arrogant enough in my own scumhunting abilities that I might just ignore dannflor's read on OWER but i'd feel pretty shitty if i was wrong.

the nightkill points to you because it is the easiest nightkill for you to make.

Does OWER shoot Dannflor there or does he shoot Bella or TP and go into 4p? I really dont know?

Like maybe OWER thinks dannflor is the doctor for whatever reason ???? - like I guess if OWER is mafia and he thinks there's no way afayeed knott claims doctor like the way he did AND dannflor's townread of shiki has to do with Dannflor thinking that Shiki is pretending to be doctor to shield doctor dannflor?!?!? like thats a really far out there thing. I honestly dont know. Its really wild to me that scum even made that nightkill because if Dannflor is not the doctor then he is one of the

most

likely targets for being doctored and if you shoot into a doc protect there you get completely blown out many many times.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

post 3513 is really towny and now i’m at a dilemma

why is 3513 really townie

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Like maybe OWER thinks dannflor is the doctor for whatever reason ???? - like I guess if OWER is mafia and he thinks there's no way afayeed knott claims doctor like the way he did AND dannflor's townread of shiki has to do with Dannflor thinking that Shiki is pretending to be doctor to shield doctor dannflor?!?!? like thats a really far out there thing. I honestly dont know. Its really wild to me that scum even made that nightkill because if Dannflor is not the doctor then he is one of the most likely targets for being doctored and if you shoot into a doc protect there you get completely blown out many many times.

rethinking this I realize this might be an incredibly convoluted reason that doesnt make any sense and the simplest and best explanation for why dannflor got shot was because Jupiter didnt want to face him today but I still do not feel good about doing NKA this way because it feels like a really easy way to get blown out.

I cannot help but think that OutworldER is some kind of mustaching twirling supervillain and Jupiter is some kind of clueless townie who is completely lost.

I recognize this interpretation of the game state could be completely ass backwards so I'm going to need to actually interact in real time with Outworld because there's a few things I need to figure out what the hell he was thinking when he did stuff.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i know one of (bella/python) is town but i don't know which one is.

who were you trying to talk about here and what is your thought process

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pooky, i want to know what you think about jupiter in isolation.

i havent actually isoed or read jupiter in depth but the brief snippets I skimmed are all over the place and im p bad at reading people who r all over the place.


i've been thinking over and over whether it makes sense for Jupiter!scum to do some LAMIST gambit at EOD yesterday where he's like yo just vote me out i dont want to be at elo and gambling the town doesnt take him up on the gamble and I really do not know if he has the skills to pull that move there with a roomread.

what I really hate is how outworld reacted to it right there and then and said it must be coming from Town!Jupiter and then Dannflor was like hell no.

It feels like over the top TMI on outworld's part because like how do you suddenly get that lvl of surety that its not a gambit?

comparing the two of them I feel like Jupiter is

suffering

more than Outworld is and I would expect the townie in the pair to be suffering because this is not a pleasant experience if you're town to go 9 days of not knowing wtf is going on. Outworld's vibe is that he's in control and he has a plan and that feels scummy to me

i gtg guests r here lets actually play the game tonight

what’s a roomread

a roomread is your read of the room - basically you looking at a group of people and deciding whether they would take you up on your suggestion of yeeting yourself so you wont be around in elo.

like if someone like dannflor sees you offer yourself up and just says yea sure i'll just yeet you like what do you do atp? you p much gave yourself up for no reason ? - you'd have to read that dannflor + others will

not take you up

on your offer as mafia.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

what I really hate is how outworld reacted to it right there and then and

said it must be coming from Town!Jupiter

and then Dannflor was like hell no.

where did I say this.

are you referring to this post?

the thing is like

if Jupiter's scum he gets literally nothing out of not letting the mislim go through on Project if Jup's scum and Project's town

so idk

where 3 posts earlier I said:

tbh though it probably is just Jupiter

I am going to need you to show up to realtime interact with me at least one of the next nights. I am free after 9pm EST today, tommorrow, tuesday etc. you can bring as many questions as you want me to answer.

alternatively if you are not available any nights I am going to need some times where you are available so we can actually talk this game out. I am reasonably certain I can figure out your alignment if you give me the time and I will not tolerate you deciding to ghost me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

well i mean the reason i said i'd be ok with that was because everyone wanted to flashwagon me and i was like yeah everyones gonna wanna kill me in the day after so i dont really wanna deal with that hassle

yes I understand that is why you said it and I can see you as town plausibly having that attitude at that point in the game and you do not want to deal with being the losing elim at elo

I have been there myself more than once.

what did you think was TP's alignment at that point in time, who did you think was the mafia

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

well i mean im completely lost yeah but that feels insulting despite the fact that it's probably true

why is it insulting

being lost is fine - to err is to be human.

everyone in this game is pretty lost since you've gone 6 days without eliminating mafia and nearly on the verge of choking away a near perfect start.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

OMG POOKY HI

hi I'm going to ask you some questions about your thought process throughout Day 8 - pls answer as best you can, if you don't remember just say that. don't make up anything if you can't think of an answer because I have a very keen sense for detecting "made up bullshit" and I recognize even town will make things up if they do not know or remember or feel the need to backwards justify a stance at some point in time.

when you made this post

i know one of (bella/python) is town but i don't know which one is.

I assume you are talking about Bella/Project.

Why did you rule out OWER as a suspect

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

well i mean im completely lost yeah but that feels insulting despite the fact that it's probably true

why is it insulting

being lost is fine - to err is to be human.

everyone in this game is pretty lost since you've gone 6 days without eliminating mafia and nearly on the verge of choking away a near perfect start.

I also want to reiterate I did not mean it as an insult to say you are lost or others are lost in this game. it is easy to get lost, this game is hard sometimes.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yeah, i know it shouldn't be, haha. i've just been throwing really hard this game and it's just like yeah I wish i did better, feels a bit like you're rubbing salt in the wound

ok I recognize the way I said it was a bit insulting but I did not mean it that way

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the only question I can really think of is why do you think I callout and discredit my own scumteam on D1 if I'm scum. Dann flipped flop back and forth on that point.

I don't have enough meta knowledge of how you interact with partners to really know whether you discredit your own scumteam.

if there is a sequence of play you believe to be extremely unlikely to come from you as mafia I am happy to look at it in the context of what is going on in the game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i mean flashwagon me if you want idc VOTE: jupiter
i know sure as hell that if project isnt scum i do NOT wanna go to elo

just vote Project please. I don't feel like no-elimming here, I want to know Project's alignment, not sure TP can be convinced to vote you, and we still have to sort Bella.

I think Project's hedginess around self-hammering also feels scummy still so

I want you to explain this post

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

OMG POOKY HI

hi I'm going to ask you some questions about your thought process throughout Day 8 - pls answer as best you can, if you don't remember just say that. don't make up anything if you can't think of an answer because I have a very keen sense for detecting "made up bullshit" and I recognize even town will make things up if they do not know or remember or feel the need to backwards justify a stance at some point in time.

when you made this post

i know one of (bella/python) is town but i don't know which one is.

I assume you are talking about Bella/Project.

Why did you rule out OWER as a suspect

yeah, i was talking about bella/project. i don't remember exactly why, but i was going through mechanics at the time. i ruled out OWER as a titus jailkeep (aka doctor slot) for... i don't remember what reason let me check. yeah, i worked through the logic in 3382- OWER claimed VT. roleblocking someone who claims VT doesn't work, since she's not roleblockign anythhing. in order to root out who the doctor was, you needed to figure out who titus roleblocked.
so i came to the assumption that titus didn't roleblock inside the semi-consensus townpool (which she ended up doing with TP), and rather went for people who were in the consensus limpool, me, bella, or project. i know she didn't go for me since i'm not doctor, so it had to be between bella and project, who were most likely to be scum and doctor respectively.
i ended up being wrong in the end, as it was TP, but that was kind of what was going through my head at the moment. then i ended up voting OWER because i wasn't sure who was doc, and OWER was also slip sliding into consensus limpool and could feasibly be mafia due to a) not being roleblocked b) claiming VT.

I don't understand how this means you rule out OWER as a mafia

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i know one of (bella/python) is town but i don't know which one is.

i think what i was trying to say with this is one of bella/python is MECHANICALLY CONFIRMED TOWN

ok that makes a lot more sense to me now

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i know one of (bella/python) is town but i don't know which one is.

i think what i was trying to say with this is one of bella/python is MECHANICALLY CONFIRMED TOWN

ok that makes a lot more sense to me now

ok cool beans, do you have any more questions

nah we're gucci for now i'll hit you up if I want to ask anything else

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i mean flashwagon me if you want idc VOTE: jupiter
i know sure as hell that if project isnt scum i do NOT wanna go to elo

just vote Project please. I don't feel like no-elimming here, I want to know Project's alignment, not sure TP can be convinced to vote you, and we still have to sort Bella.

I think Project's hedginess around self-hammering also feels scummy still so

I want you to explain this post

i assume you mean the last sentence. At the time there was a limpool of Project/Jupiter/Bella. It was like 30 minutes to deadline. If we no-limmed than Project stuck around to be a distraction in endgame. Elimming him even if he was town narrowed down the limpool. Project made a post saying he'd self-hammer "if the view was collectively held", which read to me as really hedgey (maybe that's the wrong word) because it relied on his definition of "collectively". It's weak and reachy, but I had also been tunneled on Project since D2 at that point

no I mean the first sentence.

"not sure TP can be convinced to vote you"

why would you think TP can't be convinced to vote for Jupiter

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok but like if you think TP is mafia why would TP!Mafia not help you yeet Jupiter but instead prefer to be yeeted himself?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like I feel like "Not sure if TP can be convinced to vote for you" is a perspective slip - you are saying actually Town!TP might not want to yeet you because I think its pretty obvious scum!TP would prefer to yeet anyone not named himself because thats literally his win condition

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the way you appeal to Jupiter to vote for TP does not feel like you are town convincing a player to hammer your top scumread. It feels like you

know

that vote does not end the game and you are trying to sell Jupiter on doing it because you know he doesn't really want to do it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

oh I thought TP was theprojectry rofl I didnt even know who you were talking about

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

for some reason I thought projectry's name was theprojectry and not just projectry oops

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i still get the vibes from you trying to convince jupiter to hammer that you dont really believe projectry is the game winning elim tho

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

what was your thought process between these two posts

VOTE: Kurtapika

E-2

I think I agree that Kurta is probably just a mislim at this point.

I'm fine just continuing to sheep Titus and Dann on T3. My preferred lim for today is Skygazer but to be frank with a little less than 3 days left I don't think I could convince people to get on that wagon.

VOTE: T3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok but you didn't mention T3 at all in terms of being a potential lim prior to that point; you mentioned him as an early townread and then moved on without really talking about him at all until Dannflor veers off to vote for him.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think I agree that Kurta is probably just a mislim at this point.

I'm fine just continuing to sheep Titus and Dann on T3. My preferred lim for today is Skygazer but to be frank with a little less than 3 days left I don't think I could convince people to get on that wagon.

VOTE: T3

I want to use your own words to explain why you thought Kurta was likely to be a mislim at this post in time because it feels extremely oppurtunistic to me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I want you to use your own words to explain why you thought Kurta was likely to be a mislim at this post in time because it feels extremely oppurtunistic to me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the leading wagon was Kurtapika, you voted for Kurta putting him at 6. then Aisa/Dannflor moved off - Dannflor changed his mind on Kurta - pushing the mislim out of reach so the "oppurtunity" to shove that mislim is gone, and your vote moved off it.

I don't understand why you would say you agree about something if you didnt actually think about it. Agreeing means "yes I

also

think this is true" as I understand it. If you're outsourcing all your thinking to Dannflor then you don't ever really need to tell him you agree with him?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

That case is extremely weak-sauce and I think the T3/Black partner theory gains more merit by the post.

That case is extremely weak-sauce and I think the T3/Black partner theory gains more merit by the post.

Why is Titus town?

Because you and T3 are scum.

can you walk me through your thought process here

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

my concern is that your progression from I am sheeping Dannflor on T3 -> T3/Black are the scum team is not a real progression but something planned in a scum PT to salvage a losing game state

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I do agree that page 40 looks fucking beautiful if you are mafia with black/t3 though I've read it like four times now and I still can't put my finger one way or the other whether Black is trying to theatre with you because I don't think anything she's doing is likely to persuade you that she's town

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

do I have to start pulling up black scum games to see how she persuades townies to do her bidding and compare it to this.

man thats way too much work for this bear to do and i already missed the 9ers/lions game talking to you i cant believe i signed up to do this

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

my concern is that your progression from I am sheeping Dannflor on T3 -> T3/Black are the scum team is not a real progression but something planned in a scum PT to salvage a losing game state

How does this make sense from a scum strategy perspective? Page 40 is me attempting to (and I like to think I did to pad my own ego) shut down the Titus counter-wagon that both were trying to get going. How would that be salvaging a losing game-state?

i dont think a titus counterwagon existed

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also like

the theoretical scum strategy here would require for me to volunteer to deep-wolf which is something that I absolutely would not do

because I freak out and give up and believe I am about to die once I get under the slightest bit of suspicion

well its not like you have a choice if t3 and black are both going to die

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

when i say salvage a losing game state i mean try to get deepwolfed enough into the towncore to win.

like if your teammates are going to die you, salvaging the game would be to bus hard enough to become part of the town core and that would involve really good distancing/bussing.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

my concern is that your progression from I am sheeping Dannflor on T3 -> T3/Black are the scum team is not a real progression but something planned in a scum PT to salvage a losing game state

How does this make sense from a scum strategy perspective? Page 40 is me attempting to (and I like to think I did to pad my own ego) shut down the Titus counter-wagon that both were trying to get going. How would that be salvaging a losing game-state?

i dont think a titus counterwagon existed

Spoiler: quotes

T3, why are you scumreading me?

I noticed that you hyperfocused on Kurtapika earlier and rarely, if ever provided much commentary or reads on other players. Another thing I noticed was that you aren't doing VCA and that your reads are 'muted,' in a sense. You have your theory about me/Kurta/Black but you're only really going out and pushing Kurta. It seems very different to MBOS 13 when you were absolutely convinced that Norwee/Dwlee/me were scum - you really pushed us hard and you had more substantial reasoning than you do for me/Kurta/Black:
Subject: mini theme 2229: MBOS 13 schweppes' pulpy potions daya 5

The three of them are locktowning each other based on spacious reasoning. They don't interact organically.

[citation needed]

-Retti

For example,

NorwegianboyEE: The three of us aren't locktowning each other.
Also NorwegianboyEE: My PoE includes none of them. Titus is there though.

T3: We aren't hard defending each other.
Also T3: Puts me as lock scum for my reads.

Previously,

NorwegianboyEE: Dwlee, your read on Titus has no reason just tunneling.
Dwlee: So what?
NorwegianboyEE: That's ok you'll see Titus as town.

Later:

NoweiganboyEE: It's Titus and Fairy Circle.

---

This is scum trying to chain us and/or vig me.

Your play here also differs from what I most recently saw of you in Secrets of the Anukat Topaz, in that game you, again, had very strong scumreads and awkwardly pushed those scumreads in a scummy way such that you eventually got voted out. As Dannflor remarked on earlier, your tone definitely feels slightly more relaxed here compared to your tone in Secrets of the Anukat Topaz, which came across to me as extremely wooden. This is a pretty weak point because when I spectated Datisi's University I found your tone as scum to transcend into an entirely different dimension of wooden.

I also strongly disliked your progression here:

I also believe kurtapika is largely a town driven wagon

Which makes the non existence of a counter wagon pretty weird

The nearest we’ve come is skygazer

T3 has been vla and the third won't use their limited cache to create a counter. They've played passively with their vote to try and get a counter going to no avail.

VOTE: T3

Between these two posts, the only thing that changed was Aisa saying that Kurta is town and OWER voting me. While you did say that Kurta not having English as a first language makes you think that he is townier, that doesn't address the bulk of your argument against Kurta so I don't buy that you unvoted because of a changed read. I also don't buy that you could have unvoted because the day was ending and the consensus was on me. At that point, there were still 48 hours left in the day, and while the momentum was on me, Kurta was the bigger wagon.

VOTE: Titus

I feel better about Titus than Skygazer actually.

I've been thinking Titus could be scum here and I like this case from T3. I'm on board with this

VOTE: Titus

what do you think T3 and Black were attempting to do here pooky

two scum votes is not a counterwagon, you need town votes for a counter wagon because scum cannot yeet people by themselves.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like i do not believe at any point during d1 titus was ever remotely in danger of being yeeted or a viable counterwagon so i dont think you "shutting down a counterwagon" is like an accurate description of what happened or clearing in any way.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

im not being semantical

you're telling me i should townbin you for shutting down the titus counterwagon but like i look at game state and i find it hard to believe the counter wagon even existed let alone was any kind of threat.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

okay so what's T3 and Black's motivations for casing/voting Titus if they weren't trying to counterwagon there

to distance with you

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like i dont think black is a bad scum player

i dont think their counter wagon had a shot in hell of working so i think why the fuck would they do this

and the reasonable explanation to me is because they want to set up scum #3 to go super deep and that makes the interaction with you make sense

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it just feels too convenient to me that you're relatively hands off and barely here during d1

make popins to vote for kurta twice when his wagon reaches 5/6 votes respectively. and then you suddenly swing to the "right solution" and black's just there to do some weird song and dance with you?

it just feels covenient and like wrong.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

a) how would Black know that this distancing gambit would work

b) how are you confident it was even Black's idea in the first place

c) what has made you convinced that T3/Black were pulling a 5head strategy to position a theoretical scum!me as a deepwolf instead of just a flailing shot in the dark

a) she didnt have to know it would work, shes not a time traveler - she would do whatever she thinks has the highest chance of success.

b) black is likely the most experienced scum player on the team and her track record is p strong as mafia i think she would take it upon herself to plan this out.

c) cuz i dont think the odds of misyeeting titus are very good at all - so if the play is not to misyeet titus then it should be to make their #3 look good.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

your entire argument predicates on the basis that you know exactly what both T3 and Black were thinking at the exact time they made those posts 2 months ago, and you've consequently latched onto this explanation that all the posts on page 40 are part of this super 5-dimensional scum strategy instead of literally any other, or more likely explanation.

well the alternative explanation is that they expected to yeet Titus and reading the game from page 35-40 I dont see how thats a reasonable expectation

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you just decided I was scum when you replaced in and are only engaging with me out of obligation at this point

nah I wouldn't do that to you

if I made up my mind I would just hard push I am still very undecided but leaning towards you being last scum tbh.

I want to hear what TP has to say about why he thinks you're town.

there's a lot of things I've left unsaid that I'm still thinking about over and over. I still need to read parts of the game I haven't

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I guess the way I think about it is.

What was Black/T3 trying to do when they voted for Titus?

I reread that part of the game I don't think it makes sense for them to expect to get 5 town votes to misyeet Titus. Like who would even vote for Titus atp in the game? She feels like she's in control of the game and does not really feel like a viable elimination.

It feels to me like a kind of banzai charge that is extremely unlikely to work and I think black knows enough about reading a game state to know that it wouldn't work.

So if the goal wasn't to misyeet Titus then what is the goal? My theory is that the goal is to make whoever is scum #3 look good enough that they get to endgame on the towncred - because really you only need one scum to win the game. You never really need to worry about being mech-guiltied by a cop and if you simply just no-kill forever as long as you are outside of the standard POE you can go very deep.

The bonus for this kind of strategy is you never face the question of "why is so-and-so still alive?" that is an issue whenever someone highly townread doesn't die for a long time - since the mafia is not killing anyone there's no actual need to worry about "surviving for too long" as a townread player.

Also I reread the conversation Black is having with you and I don't see what her goal is. Is it to convince you to vote Titus? Like not really? It's not like anything she said is likely imo to convince you that you're wrong and titus is mafia or establish a kind of link that makes you less likely to vote for her. So I think the other viable answer is that she is trying to make you look good by letting you catch her because I think she knew she was already in a bad spot in that position.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

your entire argument predicates on the basis that you know exactly what both T3 and Black were thinking at the exact time they made those posts 2 months ago, and you've consequently latched onto this explanation that all the posts on page 40 are part of this super 5-dimensional scum strategy instead of literally any other, or more likely explanation.

I could actually be completely wrong about everything I said about Black/T3 and I could also be wrong about who is the mastermind proposing the idea but I could also still be right that you are the last mafia.

You're using something know as appeal to probability which is a logical fallacy in which you talk about a specific example of what must happen for me to be right on every point - which i agree is unlikely. I could indeed be wrong on every single point I have made so far in this game but still be right that you are mafia. You are trying to conflate the two probabilities.

I know it's not damning because this could just as easily come from town!you but I guess I'm reading the emotional undertones as exasperated scum rather than frustrated townie.

I can be pretty confbiased tho so I'm gonna look at this with fresh eyes tomm and try to be open minded because people tell me I'm fucking awful at being open minded and they're mostly right.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Another thought just came to me.

This is T3 "casing" Titus: Timestamp: Mon Dec 04, 2023 7:56:46 pm

T3, why are you scumreading me?

I noticed that you hyperfocused on Kurtapika earlier and rarely, if ever provided much commentary or reads on other players. Another thing I noticed was that you aren't doing VCA and that your reads are 'muted,' in a sense. You have your theory about me/Kurta/Black but you're only really going out and pushing Kurta. It seems very different to MBOS 13 when you were absolutely convinced that Norwee/Dwlee/me were scum - you really pushed us hard and you had more substantial reasoning than you do for me/Kurta/Black:
Subject: mini theme 2229: MBOS 13 schweppes' pulpy potions daya 5

The three of them are locktowning each other based on spacious reasoning. They don't interact organically.

[citation needed]

-Retti

For example,

NorwegianboyEE: The three of us aren't locktowning each other.
Also NorwegianboyEE: My PoE includes none of them. Titus is there though.

T3: We aren't hard defending each other.
Also T3: Puts me as lock scum for my reads.

Previously,

NorwegianboyEE: Dwlee, your read on Titus has no reason just tunneling.
Dwlee: So what?
NorwegianboyEE: That's ok you'll see Titus as town.

Later:

NoweiganboyEE: It's Titus and Fairy Circle.

---

This is scum trying to chain us and/or vig me.

Your play here also differs from what I most recently saw of you in Secrets of the Anukat Topaz, in that game you, again, had very strong scumreads and awkwardly pushed those scumreads in a scummy way such that you eventually got voted out. As Dannflor remarked on earlier, your tone definitely feels slightly more relaxed here compared to your tone in Secrets of the Anukat Topaz, which came across to me as extremely wooden. This is a pretty weak point because when I spectated Datisi's University I found your tone as scum to transcend into an entirely different dimension of wooden.

I also strongly disliked your progression here:

I also believe kurtapika is largely a town driven wagon

Which makes the non existence of a counter wagon pretty weird

The nearest we’ve come is skygazer

T3 has been vla and the third won't use their limited cache to create a counter. They've played passively with their vote to try and get a counter going to no avail.

VOTE: T3

Between these two posts, the only thing that changed was Aisa saying that Kurta is town and OWER voting me. While you did say that Kurta not having English as a first language makes you think that he is townier, that doesn't address the bulk of your argument against Kurta so I don't buy that you unvoted because of a changed read. I also don't buy that you could have unvoted because the day was ending and the consensus was on me. At that point, there were still 48 hours left in the day, and while the momentum was on me, Kurta was the bigger wagon.

Black hops on here at Mon Dec 04, 2023 8:08:42 pm

I've been thinking Titus could be scum here and I like this case from T3. I'm on board with this

VOTE: Titus

and you show up to "shut down the counterwagon" here at 8:13:55

That case is extremely weak-sauce and I think the T3/Black partner theory gains more merit by the post.

The timestamps are relevant because I simply do not believe the 5 minutes that transpired between Black's vote hopping onto T3's "case" are enough time for you to read the T3 post and Black's vote hop and decide that this is some kind of scumwagon that needs to be shut down.

I also don't think you read T3's scumcase of Titus and did an evaluation or meta comparison because he posted at 756 and I simply do not believe you were online and able to do cross meta comparison and decide all of his points were "Weaksauce" and "reachy" in such a short timespan.

this entire interaction feels like planned scum theatre to me and not an organic thing that just happened

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

there's a certain confidence and edge to how you interact specifically with black on page 40 that rings extremely townie but it also feels like its missing in the rest of your iso which worries me because I can see you feeling comfortable in being confident in bussing your teammate who is working with you but you have less confidence when fake-sorting an unaligned player.

yes I'm confbiased as fuck because I literally just talked myself from thinking that your interaction with black on the back end of 40 feels townie into man this doesnt fit with the rest of this guy's iso.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

alright I actually need to sleep I expect Tired Person to slap some sense into me if I'm actually off the reservation or some shit

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

so when did you read it

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like did you just happen to be online when T3 dropped his big post and you started reading it and going into the games he cited as meta to check if they supported his conclusions? like what was you process for deciding T3's case was "weaksauce"

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

sorry guys, i don't have time today to read all the new pages v_v

i super promise to do it tomorrow.

what i can say is that i think jupiter ruling outworlder out at the beginning of this say phase combined with the post about doctor self-protecting, might've been a scumslip, because maybe jupiter tried to kill outworlder n1 and failed. yeah outworlder was my doc save n1 and t3 hinted that he didn't even perform the kill:

Why the hell would I submit the kill if I was scum

If I am scum here then I WILL LITERALLY JUST HAVE MY PARTNER SUBMIT THE KILL TO AVOID GETTING BLOCKED BY THE JAILKEEPER. Yeah, Titus, no shit, I'm the obvious Jailkeeper target!!!

God you're so tunneled just like every single game I play with you

This means there's about a 33% chance T3 is scum because Titus jailkept him. Maybe you think it's unlikely that T3 was the nightkill target (fair enough) - that's still a 50-50 split between "T3 is scum" and "the Doctor saved someone last night".

What I've been trying to say for a while is that

if I'm scum, I don't have to be the person carrying out the kill

From your POV, if I flip town, then what? A doctor has a clear, who in all likelihood is someone who we're all townreading already?

The mech against me only works if I am the one to submit the kill. Ignoring the fact that I already knew that Titus was Jailkeeper, I will only submit the kill if either my partner is so towny that they would be jailed, or so scummy that they would be jailed. In the former scenario, my only possible partners are Dannflor, OWER, and maybe Jupiter although I don't think that scum would see him as competent enough to kill. In the latter scenario, my only possible partner is Kurta.

The only people who have actually gone ahead and expressed why they scumread me for reasons other than mech are Titus and Skygazer. I don't hate Skygazer's case but Titus' case is clearly rooted in confirmation bias.

also, i checked this yesterday when i was going over whether dannflor had any chance to be scum, and i've concluded that yes, t3 did have a reason to nightkill outworlder.

outworlder was basically (correctly) tunneled on a t3/black solve, as demonstrated from this post + his next 7 posts in iso:

That case is extremely weak-sauce and I think the T3/Black partner theory gains more merit by the post.

Why is Titus town?

Because you and T3 are scum.

so if town!outworlder was left alive, t3 could count on him mega pushing him after black's flip and therefore had to kill him.

thoughts, pooky? since the other two are kinda in direct 1v1.

I dunno why T3 would give us any useful information, for all we know he did try to send the kill and got blocked.

you're right that OWER should have shoved T3 after Black flips scum but he voted for Afayeed instead and this is one page after Afayeed spars with Titus over some nonsense so even though he's saying T3 is mafia he's not really hardshoving atp.

I have not read anything yet but I pre-typed some thoughts during the night. Will properly catch up later as currently I'm occupied today.

VOTE: Afrayed Knott

Spoiler: Wall

Current Townblock: Myself, Titus, Dann, Skygazer, Project, ¿¿Bellaphant??

Project was Black's top townread, being heavily pushed by Dann, but had a lot of pushback, most of which was by Titus though, who's extremely likely to be town. Project likely to just be town.

Kurta also heavily pushed by Dann but wagon fizzled out, townread by Black, but gamestate theory presented by Dann beforehand still holds weight. Probably town?

Afrayed Knott pushed by Black in a really soft way, and Black never really tried to get anybody on the wagon. Seems very much like distancing. Most confident in this partner equity.

T3 was on the chopping block and both him and Black tried to setup a counter-wagon on Titus. Don't see a reason for Black to get off T3 if he's a mislim, and the sudden shift in reads suggest she was getting ready to bus but switched to try and counter momentum on the T3 wagon. Unless she was just trying to get Titus speed-limmed so she didn't have to deal with the NKA of night-killing her? "I'll deathtunnel Titus if T3 flips Town" feels like scum setting up a chain mislim. But why try to get Titus limmed off T3's case if you were setting up to lim Titus tommorow off a T3 mislim? Occam's Razor probably just says T3 is scum here.

Biggest suspicions in T3/Afrayed Knott. Bellaphant and Skygazer least confident townreads. Self-hammer at 24 hours left in deadline feels strange, optimal play here is to hope Town's momentum fizzles out and they no lim, thinking Black tried to make it look like Bellaphant was bussing. Weak TR though.

Skygazer vote on Black seems too early to be a bus when she could've tried to continue pushing T3 or try to add credibility to the case against Titus. Skygazer probably only scum in a Black/Skygazer/T3 world and preferred bussing Black over bussing T3, but that seems unlikely for a multitude of reasons.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

knowing OWER was the n1 protect does change the odds quite a bit but I honestly still don't feel comfortable voting for Jupiter.

if you really want me to i'll do it and hope I'm wrong but like I won't be happy about it tho this could just be because I'm crazy confbiased -.-

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like I just can't see OWER being a strong enough thread presence for the scum to decide we gotta shoot this guy immediately. it feels like if they wanted to kill anyone they'd want to kill titus

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

@TP

one of my big issues with Jupiter/Black and OWER/Black is that I feel like the Jupiter interactions feel substantially more real than the ones Black has with OWER.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

oh right that's where i was going. maybe i'm stupid and my confidence is misplaced, but night kill can't be me since i would know who doctor is and i would shoot tired person over dann

ok but you thought doctor could self protect so the logic doesnt really work

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

by the way, Black, could you send me the links to some of your past scumgames? you dont have to but i'd greatly appreciate it, even one is fine

Open 885

Newbie 2116

These are my two most recently completed scum games. There's one in between these but I had to replace out halfway through due to some unfortunate IRL stuffs

thank you

did you actually read these?

if you did - what conclusions did you draw

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if they're towny it ticks off my alarm bells because as scum they'd know enough to act towny and since i'm not particularly good with assigning reads it's easy enough for them to just slip past me. but then they could also literally just be town, and then i'm stuck paranoia'ing everyone i townread

Like this in particular just speaks to my soul

what's townie about this post

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

so I skimmed some OWER finished games for some meta comparisons;

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=2&t=91848&user_select%5B%5D=34889

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=2&t=91890&user_select%5B%5D=34889

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=53&t=88600&user_select%5B%5D=34889

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=83&t=86860&user_select%5B%5D=34889

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=52&t=84805&user_select%5B%5D=34889


They are pretty short and easy to skim so if you have a chance TP pls take a look and let me know what you think

Spoiler: I'm going to put my conclusion in this spoiler so you don't get biased by it before you read/skim them yourself

I think OWER's scum game is a lot more

controlled

and calm than his town games - his town games look more spontaneous/frenetic almost in the way he posts and far more emotion makes its way into his posting. I feel like his posting this game leans closer to his one scum game than his town games. This read is like 75% confbiased tbh and not that reliable because he doesn't have a lot of completed games and the ones he does have do not have a lot of posts in them

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

fwiw, i 100% thought dannflor was obviously the doctor and shiki was shielding him before i replaced in. and i was asking myself why did titus jail dannflor of all people. so it's entirely possible that outworlder had a similar read to mine.

lol that makes you not protecting dannflor last night even worse smh

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i do want to hear what you think about the rest of what I said about OWER

I have a tendency to trend towards more conspiracy theory thinking a lot of times so I know I need someone to ground me and tell me if I'm being crazy.

I am willing to go with your belief about jupiter being last mafia because I am kind of a coward who doesnt want to get blamed for anything post game if I fuck up and we can always say its dannflor's fault and he's not alive to protest.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I am also like pretty susceptible to the "clueless newbie act" that jupiter is displaying

i dunno why it just feels like this is a total n00b who has no idea what he's doing or why he's here

and like that moment when I was saying the town was lost and he felt insulted - I feel like if he's mafia he wouldn't feel insulted or like no to fake being insulted

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

im so nervous

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i kinda wanna hammer but also scared lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

reskimming his iso again this game makes me think he has like more words than the scum game but they're all so controlled and reasonable compared to his town game which is a lot more sharp and wild

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i am not really sold on outworlder being scum but i guess i am sold on jupiter and pooky being town.

VOTE: outworlder

did you read that sequence I said looked faked where OWER on page 40 was giving Black the business about being mafia with T3.

like I am really waffly on whether that is faked or geniune.

I just feel like it looks

too good

to be real and I need someone to tell me like if im being crazy about that page of the game

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

bruh if i was doing the 0 brain thing I would've voted for jupiter

my lizard brain is telling me you're mafia tho :>

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

thats possible definitely

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

but they can't blame me cuz they all did collectively misyeet like 7 people after d2 so shrug

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

denying reality to believe in conspiracy theories like you're running to be a republican candidate

well I dunno which one of you two are mafia

reality is fuzzy to me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I admit I'm confbiased but I could be right!

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

well if you're town and I hammer you just know that I will feel worse about it than you do !

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yeah sure

you should get jupiter to pay you money for how hard you're carrying him out of elo

lolollol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

why would T3, were he my partner, think that I'm so at risk of being jailed that he, who had been under far more suspicion the prior day phase, submits the kill instead

explain that to me

it doesnt have to be like this

mafia couldve no killed just to get the JK to claim

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

well it makes sense if they want the JK to claim? idk

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

bruh if i was in full reality denial mode i wouldve voted for you and you'd be dead

im still undecided atp

it just looks like im heavily leaning your way cuz i cant get a reaction from you if i didnt pressure you and i dont even know how to read a reaction from jupiter

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

dude if you were mechanically cleared TP wouldnt have voted you

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

UNVOTE:

does what OWER said about the mech make sense to you?

Spoiler: my thoughts

its kind of convincing to me - I'm ready to vote jupiter and just let the chips fall where they may.

I don't find him yelling at me to be really indicative of anything either way cuz I think he'd be upset if he was mafia too.

this is one of those games I kinda just want to flip the card over and see if I'm right or not cuz I'm not sure how much reading anymore would help things

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

im gonna hammer jupiter today so jups this is your last chance to redeem yourself if you're town buddy

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

thank you all for playing with me. i had a lot of fun but i'm probably going to be taking a break from the site after this since i've been pretty busy recently and my mental health is pretty fucked tbh.

<3

hope to see you back here when you're in a better place

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

phew that was a close one

thx for putting up with my nonsense OutworldER XD

thx for modding schadd