Mini 720 - SPQR Mafia {Game Over}

[dahill1]

vote Yos

for manipulating me IRL.

[dahill1]

I would be curious to know where Coriolanus learned about Glork and not the rest of us.

this.
corio definitely seems to know glork in some way, but i guess that's kinda beside the point.
also, corio i see your point about glork and his experience etc., but isn't this day start so glork couldn't have possibly died?

[dahill1]

ur butt's a bit of a clusterfuck
lol burn

[dahill1]

no clue what the evidence for this is. if i had replaced "glork" with "dahill", what difference would it have made?

none. it wasn't that you specifically know glork, but that you seem to know about a lot of the people in this game in general. but as Primate/assmaster said that's irrelevant to the game pretty much.

also, corio i see your point about glork and his experience etc., but isn't this day start so glork couldn't have possibly died?

what?

i was referring to this post:

considering the player list, i'm disappointed by the lack of glork death.

but i'm just now realizing that you were probably talking about a glork lynch, right?

[dahill1]

I'm not really sure why you're getting so defensive about this, either.

QFT
i find that fact that he's being defensive about it much more interesting than whether he's even an alt or not.

corio: if you're not an alt (as you claim), then why get so worked up about this?

[dahill1]

in response to ether: i don't see why you find my QFT strange, although i did say the whether corio was an alt or not wasn't that important:

but as Primate/assmaster said that's irrelevant to the game pretty much.

Actually, no, I don't think that. The subject of "is Corio an alt or not", isn't all that relevent; but Corio's answers, his response, really seem strange to me here, and I think his posting here might be a very productive subject.

again, yos pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter. being an alt or not isn't that important, but him blowing up for us accusing him of being one does seem off.

Allow me

Unvote Vote Xtoxm

this makes me want to kill xtoxm in every game i'm ever in with him just so he'll stop doing this..srsly.
and glork...really? you could have at least waited for a claim, and i don't see a valid reason to just hammer him like that without him even claiming

[dahill1]

yikes misread the VC
i thought xtoxm was lynched but apparently he's not. sorry about that

[dahill1]

being an alt or not isn't that important, but him blowing up for us accusing him of being one does seem off.

bullshit
i was ready to drop the subject immediately, but glork brought it up again.
this is entirely the fault of you, yos, and glork, which is hilarious because all three of you seem to know it was bullshit in the first place.

when were you ready to drop the subject? iirc you said "I want fucking evidence." which is far from dropping the subject. and this post is yet another example of you blowing up. i don't see why you're getting so worked up

[dahill1]

dahill, can you elaborate on what feels off or alignment-telling to you?

it's not necessarily alignment-telling but just the idea of overreacting to this to type of accusation seems strange to me.

[dahill1]

I don't like his telling off Glork when he thought it was a hammer.

you would have been in support of a hammer with no claim?

[dahill1]

dahill1, do you find Coriolanus's reaction to be scummy-interesting or some other type of interesting? Why have neither of you gone forward and actually voted for him as of yet? I'm pretty sure the both of you are still on your arbitrary votes from page 1.

as i said in this post:

it's not necessarily alignment-telling but just the idea of overreacting to this to type of accusation seems strange to me.

i find it to be as you said "some other type of interesting" that i can't necessarily categorize at the moment. and i don't think something piquing my interest warrants a vote since i didn't find it scummy, per say.

on that note,

unvote vote tuber

for voting assmaster with seemingly no reason, and i found it strange (scummy strange) that he didn't even really comment on xtoxm..

[dahill1]

I'm just mucking about, it's the random phase.

not when you selfvote yourself to L-2, it's not

I think GLork's vote was pretty and opportunistic, I think he was hoping someone would hammer, with the fallback of "I was asking for it".

who, specifically, did you think would hammer?
cuz personally, i can't really see any scenario in which any of us would hammer

[dahill1]

I wouldn't be adversed to hammering someone on page 4.

you also self-vote to put yourself at L-2

[dahill1]

for voting assmaster with seemingly no reason,

and i found it strange (scummy strange) that he didn't even really comment on xtoxm.

Terrible.

meh. i was merely citing it as one of the opposing viewpoints to the situation. i wasn't necessarily agreeing with it, and i have questioned when people do this in other games iirc. i dislike using info outside of mafia games in general, so i don't consider this telling of any particular alignment.

Anyway, when I skimmed through dahill's posts, I
must say that his reaction to Glork's "hammer" was very calm. Maybe it's just me but I would have reacted a little stronger if a hammer like that had occured.

what'd you want me to do type in caps?

I voted Dahill partially for sheeping on Yosarian with that odd pressure on Corio, and liked the vote even more when he sheeped on Glork--his vote for you was terrible. I've already noted his contradiction on his stance toward unexplained votes.

i don't see how agreeing with others' cases is a bad thing

:words:

again, i happened to agree with both yos and glork on the respective matters. and if

you'd

read, you would have noticed that i dropped the issue of you being an alt or not a long time ago. i had moved on to your strange reaction of these alt accusations, but not to you being an alt.
on that note, i'm just gonna drop the "reaction to being called an alt" thing for now since it doesn't seem to be telling.

and wait xtoxm, claimed? when/where?

[dahill1]

meh. i was merely citing it as one of the opposing viewpoints to the situation. i wasn't necessarily agreeing with it, and i have questioned when people do this in other games iirc. i dislike using info outside of mafia games in general, so i don't consider this telling of any particular alignment.

The first part I can possibly see, but I'm confused by the last sentence; if you don't consider it telling of any particular alignment, why did you use it as a reason to vote Tuber? Am I missing something?

i was referring to using info outside of mafia games, not tuber

and wait xtoxm, claimed? when/where?

Xtoxm claimed vanilla townie in Post 117. Any thoughts on that?

Patrick.[/quote]
i would be 100% down for lynching xtoxm except for one thing. he has done stuff like this before in games, as town. i wouldn't put against him to be lying, even if he's town.

[dahill1]

EBWOP:

meh. i was merely citing it as one of the opposing viewpoints to the situation. i wasn't necessarily agreeing with it, and i have questioned when people do this in other games iirc. i dislike using info outside of mafia games in general, so i don't consider this telling of any particular alignment.

The first part I can possibly see, but I'm confused by the last sentence; if you don't consider it telling of any particular alignment, why did you use it as a reason to vote Tuber? Am I missing something?

i was referring to using info outside of mafia games, not tuber

and wait xtoxm, claimed? when/where?

Xtoxm claimed vanilla townie in Post 117. Any thoughts on that?

Patrick.

i would be 100% down for lynching xtoxm except for one thing. he has done stuff like this before in games, as town. i wouldn't put against him to be lying, even if he's town.

[dahill1]

i dislike using info outside of mafia games in general, so i don't consider this telling of any particular alignment.

Yet this is your reason for not voting Xtoxm?

i would be 100% down for lynching xtoxm except for one thing. he has done stuff like this before in games, as town. i wouldn't put against him to be lying, even if he's town.

those are things he's done in actual mafia games
by outside, i mean like GD, MD, mishmash, etc.

[dahill1]

those are things he's done in actual mafia games
by outside, i mean like GD, MD, mishmash, etc.

Still, this reflects your view on actual mafia games. Should we have taken it more seriously if you had posted it in an actual mafia game? If so, why?

nope that isn't my view. see my previous post in response to pathetric on why. i think yes, it should be taken more seriously if it was in an actual mafia game, because if i say "voting without reasons isn't scummy" in every game i'm in and then suddenly switch my stance here. then would be most certainly strange.

Maybe it's just me interpreting your post wrongly, but it sure sounds like you are agreeing with Glork on the matter.

nope. again, see post in response to pathetric explaining it

has the "chainsaw defense" actually been ever proven to be a reasonable meta?

2nding this. i know i've been accused of this a few times as town, so i don't think it's really that valid of a tell.

[dahill1]

Yuck...xtoxm claimed vanillia? WTF?

Xtoxm, what the heck are you doing this game? So far you've self-voted and claimed vanillia on day 1 with no reasoning very early. Do I need to explain how anti-town either of those actions are?

On a side note,

unvote:incognito

; it was a random vote, and Incog's actions so far give me pro-town vibes, so I don't want to keep it on. If I was going to vote now, it'd probably be for xtoxm, but I think I'll hold off for the moment.

Sounds like someone knows i'm town.

...
...

vote xtoxm

you are just not being helpful at all and pretty much all of your actions so far have been anti-town

[dahill1]

the new xtoxm wagon is made up of stupid.

why is xtoxm not a good lynch?

[dahill1]

i think yes, it should be taken more seriously if it was in an actual mafia game, because if i say "voting without reasons isn't scummy"

in every game i'm in

and then suddenly switch my stance here. then would be most certainly strange.

I'm confused here. Is it the number of times you say something that should be taken in consideration, where you say it, or both?

both. i was using number of times just as an example.
ok here's the difference between the 2 situations:

Hypothetical Situation 1: a) I say it's not scummy to do "XXX" in a previous game I have played here.
b) In a later game, I call someone out for doing "XXX". This is a contradiction because I previously had stated my stance which was clearly "XXX" isn't scummy.

Hypothetical Situation 2: a) I post someone's opinion on "YYY" which is contrary to another player's in mafia discussion. The opinion states that doing "YYY" isn't scummy.
b) I call someone out in a game for doing "YYY". This isn't contradictory because I never agreed that doing "YYY" wasn't scummy.

[dahill1]

Why is that?

why is xtoxm not a good lynch?

i'm starting to believe this is a post restriction

that was obviously a crosspost you're stretching it

[dahill1]

it was a joke.

i know it was a joke about the PR
but you were trying to make the point that i'm mimicing yos

[dahill1]

As for dahill...I haven't played much forum mafia with him, but from my recollection of how he played in person at Starkadium, my impression is that he tends to follow people he thinks are "good players" a lot, irrespective of alignment. Glork and Ether will probably both agree with me about his in person play. I'm not sure if that's his forum mafia meta as well, though; anyone play with him recently in a forum game?

my forum play is much much different from my person play.
in fact, that was probably the first time i played a serious mafia game irl
i really don't get why some people are saying they think xtoxm is town, as i have nothing to indicate that.

[dahill1]

Hey look someone else has posted in thread in the past day oh no wait.

@Pathetric: Would you mind giving me a basic overview of the main discussion topics between the two of you pleeeeesssssseeeeeee.

@Dahill, would you mind linking me to a game you were scum in please? I gave up after 10mins work cause christ it shouldn't take that long.

i've actually never been scum except for my very first game on the site
i replaced in about halfway through iirc

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7473

[dahill1]

posting this in all games i'm in:

Limited Access due to winter vacation until probably about Jan. 5th

[dahill1]

Dahill1's defense about quoting Glork has flaws. He claims at first that it is the location of the forum that depends on wethever info about other players is useful. Which in itself doesn't make any sense to me. An opinion or argument has as much value in a mafia game as it does in a mafia discussion elsewhere, in my opinion.

i think you're kind of stretching it. i never said the location of the forum corresponds to the value of the info. i just said i personally don't like using MD and GD in mafia games, as i tend to think of them as separate environments. plus, my position has stayed the same in both MD and this game. i never said i agreed with glork's viewpoint.

Hypothetical Situation 2

is exactly what we have here. But I don't understand the difference if

Hypothetical Situation 2

had occured in an actual mafia game. In other words, if Dahill1 had made the exact same quote in an actual mafia game dose that automatically make him agree with the argument/statement/post he quotes?

yes that situation was supposed to reflect the current one. but you misread it i think. i said "I post someone's opinion on "YYY" which

is contrary

to another player's in mafia discussion". it's simple. i was just presenting an opposing viewpoint which doesn't mean i agreed with it necessarily.

First it's the location of one's post that matters if it's of value or not. Then it's also the amount of times you make that post. His arguments aren't solid.

again, no it's not exactly the location. it's whether you are consistent or not. and i only used # of times as an example, it was irrelevant to the main argument. you're the one that is continually bringing that up

vote: Dahill1

so you're voting me for a faulty argument over posting in games/MD?

[dahill1]

hi guys i'm back from vacation and i'm rereading soon

[dahill1]

first off, corio being sim = lol
i don't have much time to reread in-depth as i have to finish up a lot of major projects for school plus finals coming up.

While I don't agree that those points are necessarily contradictory, if dahill is town I'd expect him to have pointed out why they weren't contradictory as soon as it was brought up. Instead, he distanced himself from the MD post by effectively claiming that he was only quoting Glork as a devil's advocate. I don't buy it. "take it away, glrok!" sounds much more like someone who knows he's soundly owning animorpher than someone who's trying to start an argument.

and how is explaining that i was playing devil's advocate not showing how the points are contradictory?
i simply showed that i wasn't necessarily agreeing with glork, which meant that me questioning someone for not explaining a vote was valid

[dahill1]

i don't see how i flip-flopped on xtoxm
yes, he does had done stuff like that in previous games but by the time i voted him he was legitimately scummy

and i still can't see tuber's reasons for voting me

[dahill1]

EBWOP:

does

[dahill1]

i'm sorry guys i'll have

limited access

again
my aunt just died so the funeral is soon and lots of relative staying at my house and stuff
only posting in this game since i believe it is my only current game i'm in
i'll try and answer some questions soon

[dahill1]

My condolences.

thanks

@charter, brief answer to your questions re: me flip-flopping on xtoxm

in between when i had posted about him and voted him, he had clearly, IMO, committed many scummy acts that i thought was clear everyone had seen and recognized. i guess i probably should have mentioned some of them in my vote, and you're right i was wrong for not doing that. but i thought it was kinda obvious on what i thought of his behavior

[dahill1]

rereading

[dahill1]

sorry trying to get into this game
quick thoughts re: EA and Yos
they both were kind of hypocritical in attacking each other for not contributing and leaving me and assmaster out. but i really dislike Yos' vote back at EA after the exchange

I'm not going after EA "because he didn't say much". It's because of the way that he keeps using craplogic for bad attacks on people, and this isn't the first time I've pointed this out, either.

Well, that, and because he's scum.

this paragraph makes it seem like it

You're doing the same bullshit you tried day 1, again, when you complained about my contributions while you hadn't done anything yet. I'm posting and actually doing stuff, and you're really not; this is only your third post of the month, and the first two were complete garbage, as I pointed out about your Glork case at the time; and yet you again act like I'm the one who's not scumhunting, just because I haven't voted yet today?

[dahill1]

voting someone based on a previous player saying "If I die XXX is scum" is just retarded
i wanna see where corio's going with this

[dahill1]

Dahill - when you voted for xtox in 173, did you see Yos's vote (Post 170, 3 minutes earlier) before placing your vote or not?

nope i had pretty much stopped reading after seeing xtoxm's comment and voted him, then continued on

That last post was me as well.

Also to [dahill], what did you seriously think the town would gain out of the Coriolanus-alt discussion? I'm not asking for an essay, even dot points would be enough for now.

des

i figured if he was an alt which seemed likely, then we could possibly dig up meta if he ever came under suspicion. and as he later admitted he made the alt for that exact reason, to avoid being meta'd

Good lord. Look at dahill's recent posting. He's made like four contentless posts in here in the past nearly two weeks, and TONS of posts in other games/places on the site.

Clearly he is trying to hope something comes of these new arguments and people forget about him.

nice misrepresentation, but as i said earlier i am having trouble getting into this game. to be honest, i'm just not as interested in it. not saying i won't continue to play, but it's just that i don't find it as interesting

[dahill1]

posting this in all games

V/LA this weekend until maybe Monday

[dahill1]

back
post soonish

[dahill1]

really don't have time to do a thorough reread due to stillers and finals
i do realize that it's nearing deadline so i will put a vote out

concerning elmo/des' opinion on the alt discussion at the begininng, i don't get how determining if he had a main account was useless. in this case, sim accidentally outed himself but it ended up helping players reading him better.

anyways,

vote yosarian

i don't see his case on EA and it is mainly translating into OMGUS in my eyes.

[dahill1]

hmm
i'm definitely considering a massclaim today as if we mislynch there's a high chance that we'll lose

[dahill1]

everyone else's thoughts on massclaim?

[dahill1]

Alright. I can start. Popcorn from there?

if you want, sure.
i think we should wait for everyone to check in though

[dahill1]

conspirator

[dahill1]

rereading some
i also don't get why charter wouldn't have investigated me since it seemed like i was/is his number one suspect
also, assuming we have 3 scum, i find it really unlikely that it's 3:1:8, with the neutral being a survivor and only 1 town power role that only serves the purpose of finding just 1 scum.
i'm starting to think that with this number of vanillas it could be more than one scum group

[dahill1]

How can you say there's more than one scum group? Look at the conspirator role pm! Look at the one kill per night we're having! Neither makes any sense whatsoever with more than one scum group.

do you honestly think this setup is 3:1:8 then with only 1 power role?

[dahill1]

i'm starting to think that with this number of vanillas it could be more than one scum group

We have no protective roles and only one death a night. 2 scum groups and a survivor against a town that is all vanillas or vanillas and a cop (a cop who makes no sense with two scum groups) would be retarded.

2:1:9 is the sensible configuration. 1:1:10 is the off chance I am considering, but I don't think that's likely because two neutrals would make for a horrible game that could end on day 1.

cross posted with assmaster
2:1:9 might make more sense

[dahill1]

Why specifically did you vote Assmaster here, Dahill

you mean tuberkulos?
mainly because he put a vote on assmaster with no reasoning or explanation at all. also, i found it weird how he didn't even comment on xtoxm's most recent actions at that time

[dahill1]

you mean tuberkulos?
mainly because he put a vote on assmaster with no reasoning or explanation at all.

Yeah, sorry. What was your intent in posting what you did in Mafia Discussion?

mainly because everyone else was arguing the opposite point and i wanted to show the other point of view. and i as EA said i just wanted to own animorph, basically. if you look through my games, you'll see that i don't actually follow that practice or even necessarily agree with it.

as for the arguing over the balance of this game, we'd have to know what OGML was thinking which we can never truly achieve. i agree with glork that lynching casear will most likely not end the game just because of how easily town could win that game.

[dahill1]

i think what they're referring to is the contradiction between the two posts that EA quoted

[dahill1]

charter

- apparently the only power role in this game. i think he is likely town due to the fact that i don't think this setup could be 2:1:9 or 3:1:8 without there being at least some form of a power role, even if it's weak. i think it's very obvious that the Cesear role is scum but i don't think that lynching him will end the day.

El Destructo

- didn't really see glork's case on him/them. i tend to avoid wall o' text's, but i do like the questions he's been asking recently towards the other players. i'd say leaning towards town, but not entirely sure yet

Incog

- i agree with him on EA (see below) and i think he's made a lot of good points this game, but still nothing incredibly of interest from looking at a few of his pasts games. i'd say on the same level as El Destructo, leaning towards town but not sure

Tuberkulos

- seems to be a little bit behind-the-scenes lately and i don't think i've seen anything of interest really which is kinda null. he promised a post later so i'll wait for that.

don't have much time but i'll try to get to the rest tonight

[dahill1]

Posting from phone
probably won't be able to get in a good post this weekend cuz of superbowl

Go steelers

[dahill1]

did not make much of those posts 13-20 as i took them as joking around
will try to get to the player analysis tonight but for now:

vote EA

as i would rather lynch him than myself and a couple other reasons more tonight

[dahill1]

This was one of my worst games so far, I apologize to both groups.
I REALLY, REALLY need to work on my scum game.

[dahill1]

I agree I probably would've gone down waaay faster if not for Glrok + Incog.
Planning on working my scum game a lot for next time around