Guns & Roses VI [Game Over]

[Titus]

Yes Shiro. You are town. *follows cookies*

[FakeGod]

VoteCount 1.8

Gamma Emerald [1] - Malakittens
Enchant [1] - SirCakez
SirCakez [1] - Enchant
The Bulge [1] - WhemeStar
Aristeia [1] - The Bulge
Dunnstral [5] - pisskop, Titus, Aristeia, Alisae, Gamma Emerald
WhemeStar [1] - Celebloki

Not Voting [3]

- Theta Alpine, Taly, Dunnstral

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2023-10-30 11:00:00)

[Taly]

mass claim is a bad idea but i like the rolling mass gun claim (ie guns claiming their kills) idea

I think I'm in the not mass claiming boat as well and agree with guns claiming if they've made a kill. I suppose that begs the question, do they only claim if they make a kill? Not if they shoot a rose that was BP that night?

both came in sharing the same sentiment about massclaim at a relatively same time

I could see scum wanting to pick rose, could've thought more town would have chosen gun and wanted some protection if they were sure they'd pick a good night. Or it does muddy the waters, if the town has an inflated view of how many roses there are, they might be more loose with using their guns or not worrying as much on mis elims.

If the number of roses were much smaller, say scum did choose all guns, and like half the town chose guns, town would probably be a lot more careful on who they wagon and elim in the day. Scum would want town to be more comfortable getting on wagons and getting people out, so inflating the number of roses helps them with that.

All that said, I am still of the belief that most likely all 3 scum are guns and we have one town gun.

all 3 scum are guns, is the main statement behind this fluff

I mean at this point if Wheme's claim is to be believed, and we believe Wheme is town, scum know everything at this point and we should not expect to see Wheme after N1. Only speculation at this point is what everyone's nights are which should never be claimed imo.

setup spec and

wheme

spec?

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

I don't really think

Celeb

helped perception on this in hindsight, feels like they just tried to counter for the sake of it

enchant did you not pick gun hehe

I don't think Enchant would pick a rose if he was town

ok so why did you decide to pick rose?

also I guess if no1 else claims town gun then wheme is confirmed as the only town gun and the 3 mafia all picked gun?

cue

ari V bulge

1v1

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

This line of logic only works if you have reasons to believe one or both of

Wheme/Enchant

are town.

Aside from what you posited 230, independent of any other slots' interaction with these two, why would we consider one or both of them to be town?

I wouldn't necessarily say they are town, but I don't agree with the sentiment from others that since they are claiming Gun, they must be scum. I just don't agree that scum had to have chosen gun and could see one or more of them choosing rose, leaving room for town to choose guns. My point is scum or town, they are more vulnerable now. I just don't understand the desire to claim gun so early, I feel like a scum gun is more likely to keep quiet about it, especially considering the comments made early in this day. I think it's more likely we had excitable misguided townies waving their guns around. I suppose if people are afraid Enchant will shoot them tonight they can try and elim him today. I doubt Wheme will make it to N2 to use his gun. If Enchant is scum, I just think he's a better option for a wagon tomorrow if he's still here.

fencesitty, does not give good vibes.

146 strikes me as an attempt at thread control, like they don't want discussion to stray away from mass-claim adjacency.

attempt at thread control? I barely even bother to post more than one time a day in this thread where the fuck are you getting thread control vibes

narrative control is probably more accurate. shutting down d1 scum strat speculation rubs me the wrong way, esp when you only seem interested in discussing claims. what's the point of assuming there are 3 scum guns and then not going any further with that speculation? it's all noise.

i really dont get the point of this

more enchant votes only comment i have

This is the post that made me decide to go for Cakez over Ari or Ali. Ari started the push and has specific, very established reasons. Ali was engaged a bit in the claim talk and wanting to get rid of guns. Cakez piled on more so for meta'ing Enchant it seems. The vote also came in not long after Ali's. Maybe there was hope there'd be more momentum for a wagon to start that didn't. To me his vote was opportunistic and not from the same place as Ari or Ali.

At this point I'm not making a case on Cakez, I'm just trying a different direction than Enchant. I'll say it again so I'm not mis-represented. I am NOT saying I think Enchant is town and the gun claims are interesting choices to make. I tend to agree with Ali's statement that guns have to die at some point. My stance is just to save them for later.

this makes some sense and i feel the logic behind the push checks out here

In my opinion if we mass claim now we're going to find out we have 12 roses and 2 guns.

pedit - do you disagree or are you being obtuse?

I am using the simplest language possible, you're the one being not specific about what you are saying

is that why youre voting me?

I'm voting you because you're either scum or scumsiding

nah you're voting me bc i called out your play when everyone else was giving you a pass

tbh im not quite sure what

bulge

is seeing in

ari's

posts here aside from rolefishing that didnt go anywhere?

more enchant votes only comment i have

This is the post that made me decide to go for Cakez over Ari or Ali. Ari started the push and has specific, very established reasons. Ali was engaged a bit in the claim talk and wanting to get rid of guns. Cakez piled on more so for meta'ing Enchant it seems. The vote also came in not long after Ali's. Maybe there was hope there'd be more momentum for a wagon to start that didn't. To me his vote was opportunistic and not from the same place as Ari or Ali.

At this point I'm not making a case on Cakez, I'm just trying a different direction than Enchant. I'll say it again so I'm not mis-represented. I am NOT saying I think Enchant is town and the gun claims are interesting choices to make. I tend to agree with Ali's statement that guns have to die at some point. My stance is just to save them for later.

celebloki is doing a lot of enchant-defense without ever outright calling enchant town, and being very careful not to do so. their whole iso i find to be very carefully worded but that doesnt have to be ai necessarily. but i could easily see enchant+celeb

D1 pre-associative, ok

but also,

bulge

never does anything about this via a vote or more pressure on

celeb

i like the way theta has been interacting with the thread. townbinning for now so i don't have to read so much mech spec!

ok

Bulge can you succinctly explain your beef with Ari?

when i gave my read of her slot she started flinging shit at me. her mindset from the get-go has been centred on resolving claims (seems agenda-based) rather than alignments. i have no beef but this plus her defensive reaction to me and subsequent projection reads scum to me clear as day.

anything else?

I want to push everyone to spew reads on Enchant/Wheme/Alisae.

I'm not convinced that any specific shot is a town-controlled one unless there is more input from the playerlist.

I think there's for sure scum in there, a good chance of there even being 2. I think Alisae is the most likely to be an actual town gun. I don't know what Bulge is getting at in his post saying I'm defending Enchant. I think there's a great chance he is scum. I acknowledge that it's probably a misguided view, and likely even reckless, but I really just want to let those 3 let bullets fly and sort through the mess D2. I'm just more keen on trying to narrow down someone outside of those 3 D1, then go back to whoever is still there tomorrow amongst those three.

i dont get this read progression

celeb

was focused on the wagoners on

enchant/wheme

, and while i can understand the change with

cakez

interaction and the

alisae

rationale here, i dont quite follow the whole mentality behind

"

enchant/wheme

have scum on them"

to

"

enchant/wheme

are prbably both SvS"

that is essentially what this post says as it is posits a reality where

alisae

is town

I suppose I can get behind a Wheme train. He did claim his gun later, so we wouldn't have gotten to see his shot tonight anyway. My plan to let N1 bullets fly wouldn't really have included him except as a target. I expect to go back to Cakez tomorrow though, maybe can be convinced of Dunn as well.

VOTE: Wheme

i dont get very good vibes in the sense that voting

wheme

wouldnt have a supposed impact on his reads of

cakez/dunn

aristeia stays refusing to interact with even a crumb of good faith. no part of her interactions with me show any intent to deduce my alignment or to allow me to deduce hers.

ok what does this accomplish

oh i am further behind than i thought

uh

i'm amazed the person who's in perpetual catchup mode and refuses to actually interact with the game in real time or vote among the leading wagons or even give an opinion or read on any of the leading players up for elimination less than two days from the deadline has the gall to come in here and lecture me about not sorting him properly when he is not even playing the game.

TRULY an amazing feat Bulge

i'll give you some pointers for how you can help me sort you;

(a) post more than once every two days
(b) don't catchup by exclusively asking questions about things that happened two days ago and nobody even cares about anymore
(c) try to pretend you at least care about which of the leading candidates for elimination gets elimmed
(d) maybe use your vote on something that has some traction less than two days to deadline
(e) maybe give a read on the game state or the players in the game other than the one person you seem hellbent on deathtunneling for n00b reasons.

i post as often as i am able to, take it or leave it. believe it or not mafia is not a high priority in my life, and i spend most of my time offline. i'm usually posting from work when things are slow, but when i have a meeting or a deadline or things get busy then my priorities obviously lie elsewhere.

your use of "refuses" frustrates me, as if i am tactically ghosting the thread. your continual commentary on my playstyle and posting frequency and level of engagement frustrates me. either hop off or explain why these things make me scum. your policing of how i approach the game is tiring. i dont have to meet some quota of time dedication just for the privilege of enjoying a game i have played for years.

i obviously struck a nerve when i initially stated my read on you. since then your reactions to me have been entirely emotional and hardly game-related. thus i dont believe that you are trying to sort me, this is nothing but an omgus defense.

...

most of the discussion has been around slots that i havent paid very close attention to, namely enchant/wheme/cakez/dunnstral. i'll probably forgo catching up w the main thread and have a look at these in iso and the discussion around them.

pedit @ taly - im p sure i've kept up with responding to anything directed at me (most of which has been from ari). i dont feel in tune with the rest of the thread atp bc the discussion all seems to lie where i have been glossing over. this isn't an issue i usually have even in games where i am playing from behind, but i think this time around it just so happens that the slots getting the most attention either haven't pinged me or i have been consciously skimming over.

yeah its no wonder why you have a difficulty grasp on the gamestate because your worldview begins and ends with

ari

[Taly]

Yes Shiro. You are town. *follows cookies*

pocketed forever

[Taly]

but like

I dont like

Celeb's

or

Bulge's

ISO, and can see TvS, or tbqh, even SvS.

but yknow... the more people i vote and wagon, the more im placing townies under pressure and making a TvT rife environment.

dunn

is at like, 5 votes....

and i dont agree with

wheme

, scummy is scummy.

[Taly]

i want to fucking shoot half this playerlist

[Titus]

Yes.

did my votes for not shooting

alisae/titus/gamma

actually count?

Joins. Add pisskop

[Taly]

enchant

, please kill in

{whoever survives out of celeb/dunn/bulge}

[Taly]

Town

Alisae
Titus
Gamma
Ari
pisskop
Enchant

This passes D1

Mala
Theta
Wheme
Cakez

Lean Scum

Celeb
Bulge

Scum

Dunnstral

[Titus]

I'd move Ari and theta down 1 tier, wheme up, swap cakez and celeb

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: Cele

[Celebloki]

I was going to try and respond in some capacity to Taly's 1027, but he's mixed me in with a wall of stuff that also analyzes Bulge and I don't feel like trying to quote and pull it apart. It's dangerously easy to read someone in ISO with an expected viewpoint in mind and read that viewpoint with the loss of all the context those posts had. Calls all my early posts fluff and mechanic spec, but that's what everyone else was talking about at the time. The whole first several pages were full of that same fluff.

Then funnily enough picks apart the same posts that Bulge misrepresents me on and does the same mis representation.

I also found it funny that Taly read in ISO looks a lot like me, votes on the Cakez wagon that I started, leaves it to vote Wheme with less of a reason that I gave for my vote.

[Celebloki]

I'll guess I'll try and explain it again since I clearly haven't made my stance clear. I saw the Wheme, Enchant, and then Alisae gun claims and ultimately didn't care what their alignment was. I have admittedly pointed out that its probably a reckless stance, but I would just rather let them sort each other out on N1 and look at them again on D2 then bother with trying to elim one of them D1. I tried and mildly succeeded at starting a counter wagon on Cakez for behavior that I did find a bit scummy.

I honestly don't know what you mean by my read progression. I never said I thought Enchant or Wheme was town. I don't think it's wild to think Enchant or Wheme may be scum as well as Cakez. I didn't criticize Cakez for joining a wagon on Enchant because I thought Enchant was town. I criticized him for joining an opportunistic wagon, which is something scum can do on a wagon that may also be on scum. Enchant painted a target on his back, Cakez could easily have decided to bus and earn brownie points if Enchant catches a shot N1 and flips red.

[Alisae]

post a read list

[Celebloki]

I wouldn't necessarily say I really have any solid "confirmed" type reads one side or the other at this point. I generally don't feel making confirmed reads on D1 is possible except for those soul reads some of you get for having played with each other so much. However I do have some leans at this point.

Lean Town

Theta Alpine
Titus
Taly
Alisae
Aristeia
Gamma Emerald

Null

Dunnstral
Malakittens
pisskop

Lean Scum

SirCakez
Enchant
Wheme
The Bulge

[Enchant]

Yes.

did my votes for not shooting

alisae/titus/gamma

actually count?

I count it as Titus vote, because i didn't plan to shot alicae anyway.

[Taly]

VOTE: The Bulge

Will this help you engage with the rest of the playerlist?

[Taly]

Less than 29 hrs.

People should state their PoE of no more than 3 people (less is better) and the order at which they're willing to lim.

[Taly]

I was going to try and respond in some capacity to Taly's 1027, but he's mixed me in with a wall of stuff that also analyzes Bulge and I don't feel like trying to quote and pull it apart. It's dangerously easy to read someone in ISO with an expected viewpoint in mind and read that viewpoint with the loss of all the context those posts had. Calls all my early posts fluff and mechanic spec, but that's what everyone else was talking about at the time. The whole first several pages were full of that same fluff.

Then funnily enough picks apart the same posts that Bulge misrepresents me on and does the same mis representation.

I also found it funny that Taly read in ISO looks a lot like me, votes on the Cakez wagon that I started, leaves it to vote Wheme with less of a reason that I gave for my vote.

Excuse me, what?

I wanted Cakez to at least reply before this but

UNVOTE:

I don't think it's happening, nor is it ideal in both possible scenarios relative to

dunn/enchant

, especially as others feel better with

cakez

, that can't all be misted town or defending buddies, if any.

To what? I don't really have a rebuttal to your arguments right now I just think you're off base on me, not sure yet whether that's townie or scummy

Anything more than this?

Fuck it

VOTE: WhemeStar

This is very bizarre, I don't see how you ended up here given your prior declared scumreads

I recall putting

Wheme

as nullscum in my first readslist. They were in my bottom 4 to ISO.

Plus, a big driver behind why I voted

Enchant

was

Alisae's

logic about the guns and my read on em.

Since I was feeling closer to

Enchant

-Town by the time I voted here, my

Wheme

vote makes sense on both accounts from.how I viewed the

Enchant/Wheme

as likely TvS and

Alisae's

rationale of resolving the guns.

Plus, town needs a consensus and

Alisae

is really set between

Enchant/Wheme

, so a wagon with traction was above rand a protown move here I feel.

I had also stated that

Cakez

wagon was losing traction and that I was liking

Cakez's

responses to me around the time of the above post.

That statement is a bad representation of my rationale here for both

Cakez/Wheme

votes.

[Taly]

yeah I want 5 people flipped, that's not a good thing

someone help

[Taly]

Actually probably more like 3, yeah

[Taly]

Anyone townread

Bulge

? I want to hear the reasons

[Taly]

Mmm :/ the

Celeb/Bulge

wagons feel last minute and I rarely like those D1.

[Enchant]

yeah I want 5 people flipped, that's not a good thing

someone help

All things considering and fact that this is fucking d1, i think if you have 5 suspects and 3 of them are correct, you already reliable win even if those two towns will suffer.

So you probably should chill and not overdoing it. But i can relate to "Shot half of playerlist" but alas i only have one gun, and reloading will be invented only in future.

[Taly]

I'm mainly trying to get more discussion going

Are we just going to let a Dunn lim pass? I'm certainly not opposed but Bulge/Celeb suspicion could have some form of resolution here