Read Your Role Mafia - Game Over

[Caboose]

Vote: Ooba

Moving avatars are evil.

[Caboose]

cuz everyone knows Church is the coolest character in Red vs Blue

Bah, Church is a weakling.

[Caboose]

I wonder if the mafia can recruit. Caboose appears to have finally gotten around to posting though .

Day Vig Kill: Forbiddanlight

Obvious cult recruiter.

[Caboose]

No one ever wants to distance me T_T

You're not cool enough to get distanced.

[Caboose]

FL refers to this post.

I did that whole day vig thing hoping to freak FL out.

[Caboose]

I haven't played for a while. (Since before Natirasha joined.) Someone want to fill me in on the whole Natirasha thing?

*Warning: the following post contains meta*

I don't know for sure, but it seems like it's common for Nat to start off the game with a self-vote.

[Caboose]

[Caboose]

Voting for someone who votes for himself is stupid. If there was a Joker role, he wouldn't make it obvious like that.

Why would a pro-Town role ever vote themselves?

Beats me.

[Caboose]

Ok, we're on page 4 and nobody's really given me an excuse yet. Who are we bandwagoning? I sort of hate bandwagoning entirely at random, but we're almost at that point.

A shadowgirl wagon would be good.

Oh, how come?

Nat does that every game, I believe, so I don't think it's an indicator to his alignment.

I should totally start to speak only in Russian, vote in every post based on a dice roll, and quote my PM if I'm alive in LyLo in every game.

Sounds like a plan.

Sounds like a plan to me too.

Sdrawkcab gnitirw trats s'tel

[Caboose]

Wow. I have a question for you guys.

Did your role PMs have PRs that restrict talking about things of importance in-game? First, our biggest argument is about a guy who always votes for himself, and then everyone starts speaking backwards.

...

I would change my vote to Caboose for starting the entire 'speak in backwards' mantra, but I'm already voting for him.

I couldn't resist throwing that in.

But seriously, chill out, it's a joke.

I would like to advise to Nat to stop voting himself in games as it leads to this silly conversation. It's not helpful to the town and it's not getting us anywhere, as shown by these first four pages.

[Caboose]

Nope. But it was sure fun. Thinking on it, the way charter is pushing pro town sens is unsettling.

Unvote, vote charter

I would like to know why charter is so confident that Sens is town on page 4. Please.

[Caboose]

Nope. But it was sure fun. Thinking on it, the way charter is pushing pro town sens is unsettling.

Unvote, vote charter

I would like to know why charter is so confident that Sens is town on page 4. Please.

page 5, I mean

[Caboose]

OK.

Vote: charter

[Caboose]

Ooops, screwed that up.

Unvote

Vote: charter

I agree that the charter bandwagon has merit. I would like to hear his explanation of being "fairly sure" that Sens is town after only 5 pages.

[Caboose]

@charter

Caboose, why only vote after Yaw tells you to?

Because I agree with him in the fact that your wagon deserves merit after you say that you are "fairly sure" that Sens is town on pg. 5.

Already decided you don't like it, eh?

No, I never said that. My vote isn't set in stone and it can be changed (and with how ooba has been acting, it very well might).

To my understanding, the purpose of bandwagons is to see how people act under pressure. Without enough people on the bandwagon, it kind of losses that purpose. No need to get defensive about it. My purpose of playing MafiaScum isn't to get you lynched on D1 of every game that I play with you.

@ooba:

I thought it was quite obvious - I voted nat cause he hadn't posted in the thread till then, unvoted after he had posted and hopped on to the charter wagon for pressure ..

As much as I want to be one, I'm not a mindreader. I don't have some psychic force that can reach through my computer, poke out of your computer, and read your mind for the reason of your vote. I like to have reasons.

[Caboose]

Wow, I really bungled that one.

@charter

Caboose, why only vote after Yaw tells you to?

Because I agree with him in the fact that your wagon deserves merit after you say that you are "fairly sure" that Sens is town on pg. 5.

Already decided you don't like it, eh?

No, I never said that. My vote isn't set in stone and it can be changed (and with how ooba has been acting, it very well might).

To my understanding, the purpose of bandwagons is to see how people act under pressure. Without enough people on the bandwagon, it kind of losses that purpose. No need to get defensive about it. My purpose of playing MafiaScum isn't to get you lynched on D1 of every game that I play with you.

[Caboose]

MafiaSSK -- Please don't make us read other minis to try to figure out what you personally saw. Summarize or quote whatever it is you want to add. (Except if the game's still running, in which case...probably shouldn't have been mentioned in the first place.)

Kay. he was town in both games and acted WAY differently.

Can you describe the differences?

PS. sorry for lack of posting, I'm too used to going to little italy, and not theme park.

Way more aggressive.

Can you get any more vague than that?

[Caboose]

This was a hypothetical example where I voted for Seraphim to show what indecisiveness in voting reasons actually meant ..

Initially stated reason : "I'm voting for him cause he qualifies everything with a j/k"

5 posts later : "The reason i voted for him was because he made stretching attacks on me"

So you are esentially defending yourself by making up things about yourself that didn't happen in order to theorhetically prove how you would act if what you are being accused of was true?

...does that mean you are only hypothetically defending yourself as well then?

As opposed to providing anything real and useful?

Just curious.

This might just be the clumsiest railroading attempt I've ever seen.

FOS: SocioPath

What's railroading?

[Caboose]

Did I ever say "There's no urgency to post". This game is boring. I don't pay as much attention to boring games.

That post pisses me off.

I also find it interesting that the charter bandwagon lost steam very quickly - while I'd like MafiaSSK to be more specific, I think there's some value to whatever meta he's seen. I also think that charter's posts, especially the one of being sure that SensFan is town, is scummy.

I, too, would like to see MafiaSSK be more specific in his meta.

[Caboose]

I think that the supposed attack on Nat for "no urgency to post" is bull.

I didn't say that I think Nat was scummy for saying that, I just said that it pissed me off.

[Caboose]

Especially since I meant the original attack, not your attack. Someone used that term first.

That wasn't clear from your first post.

Interesting defensiveness.

Of course I'm going to defend what I said earlier when you called it "bull". Why is that being defensive?

[Caboose]

/prodded will catch up in a bit

I'm waiting....

[Caboose]

Alright,

unvote

Why did we have to pry to get your reasons from you?

Why do we have to pry to get the "meta" out of SSK? I feel like we're trying to pull teeth here. I see that you're posting elsewhere, but not here.

Unvote
Vote: MafiaSSK

Maybe this will catch your attention.

[Caboose]

Mod, I would like to ask for the replacement of Natirasha. Apparently, I'm boring him.

[Caboose]

Can't we all get along? :[

I'm just a little annoyed that someone signed up for the game just to sit and say that it's boring.

[Caboose]

K.

Fine, then

Mod, replace me.

Nat, I don't have a problem with you playing. But if you sign up, please don't just sit and say how boring the game is.


Anywho,

Is the day going to end before we get that meta that SSK was talking about? I'm losing patience. And since we've waited so long, I'm expecting this to be some really helpful and insightful meta.

[Caboose]

I was thinking the MafiaSSK bandwagon was pretty unfounded... until I saw the deadline. Because we're all waiting for him and he hasn't posted the meta still, we're stalled here.
But I don't really think SSK is scum... if he's scum and charter is town, then wouldn't he already have elaborated this meta? And if they're both scum and he's bussing on day 1, well... why would he do that day 1 (actually, i'm not sure... someone answer for that me please) and wouldn't he go through with it rather then disappearing?
Since I think he's not scum and he has enough pressure already, I'll not vote.

Unfounded? The guys gives us a little tidbit of meta, I think just to fuel the charter wagon just enough for a lynch, and then leaves. Is that such a weak reason?

[Caboose]

"Guys" in the previous post should be singular "guy" and it's refering to SSK.
Sorry.

[Caboose]

Sorry.. I keeep forgetting about this game. What questions do I have to answer?

Meta on charter, please.

[Caboose]

I'm a townie. simple as that.

Sorry.. I keeep forgetting about this game. What questions do I have to answer?

Meta on charter, please.

How specific do you want?

As much as you can that time allows you to before deadline. You are also the current deadline lynch, so as much input and info you can give us the better.

Fine. I don't have much meta on charter. From what I can recall though, when he lurks it usually means hes scum. Also when he scumhunts, he tends to be aggressive towards his targets.

That's it? No wonder you didn't want to share this with us.

[Caboose]

It was early on in the game. I didnt think I had to have an extensive meta on him.

So you think that a crappy little tidbit of meta is enough to warrant a vote or a lynch?

[Caboose]

I don't think SSK is mafia, so while this is a disappointing result, there's no point in continuing to vote him. So

unvote

You're going to take your vote off of SSK for, what reason again?

Knowing that our deadline is coming up soon, and the day having not gotten very far, what does everyone think about a no lynch? I don't know if it's new meta or something to hate no lynches, but considering the nature of the game, where probably a larger percentage of town has roles than normal, it might be best to let everyone get through the first night. At least I am not confident enough in anyone being scum that I'm willing to pursue them with 3 days left til deadline

Nothing good ever comes of a no lynch.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seraphim and Empking both pointed out that you're vote hopping, and I think that they might have a valid point considering that you just unvoted.

[Caboose]

If I were scum I would certainly not do something as controversial as suggest a no lynch. (No one bring up WIFOM please, I hate that term. Mafia became a worse game when it appeared.)

Hate to break it to you, but that's WIFOM.

[Caboose]

I'm with Yaw in that I'm not sold on an Electra lynch. If anything, I think that the whole Electra vote hopping theory is weak.

I think Yaw has some good points, but I'm still more in favor of an SSK lynch. He comes out, gives us a little tidbit, and then disappears. He sits and makes us wait for this magical meta, and then, convienently,

right before deadline

, he comes back to use with these "rereading..." posts (stalling tactic) and then just parrots what he said before until finally concedeing that he doesn't have that strong of a case on charter. Call my scummeter broken (you won't be the first to do so), but I read that as a shenanigan to distract the town while using up as much time as he can.

[Caboose]

he comes back to use

That should be "us".

[Caboose]

For SocioPath, there's...well, a lot of different things. The main one that clicked for me is that he inadvertently dropped some pretty strong hints about his role in the thread. Don't want to get into this too much because it's not 100% scum, but is comparable against a claim and I want to give him a chance to make a mistake when claiming.

When going back with that idea, I noticed first of all his behaviour towards Ooba. Remember that the Ooba-wagon started out right when the charter-wagon was gaining steam. This means that if the charter-wagon was on scum, there's a high probability that scum were driving the opposing wagon. Even if not, SocioPath was by far the most vehement about going after Ooba, going to absurd lengths to try to justify a lynch. His exit strategy looked really weak here, compared to the effort in trying to push the wagon in the first place.

The recent attempt on Electra is also symptomatic of the need to push a bandwagon anywhere, for any reason. Electra was pretty much forced by Seraphim's accusation to bring up WIFOM, which SocioPath jumped on without looking at the context (Electra was actually saying that bringing up no lynch was value neutral, while acknowledging that it's usually seen as scummy). And again he's pushing a wagon heavily, based on nothing.

In short, he's just looking to push a lynch for any reason. His bandwagoning lacks discernment, and he's unwilling to consider evidence that doesn't get his chosen victims lynched. Combine that with the role tells and we have scum.

(And those saying SocioPath should claim without voting for him? Not helpful. Vote.)

Hmmmmm... This is a really valid point and case.

No. I'M saying that it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE NO LYNCH PART. I specifically SAID that.
Stop arguing issues I am not talking about.
The part being referred to is the part where you said you WOULDN'T DO -SAID ACTION- IF YOU WERE SCUM. Which is SCUMMY.


And I vote for scummy. Because scum are scummy.

Unvote
Vote: Electra

While Electra

did

bring up WIFOM, I didn't really get a scummy read off of that for the same reason that Yaw didn't. I think Socio was reaching on this point.

I, too, would like a Soc claim, and so

Unvote
Vote: Sociopath

[Caboose]

Mod, could we have a prod/replacement of Empking?

[Caboose]

Mod, could we have a prod/replacement of Empking?

What the crap is this? You are asking for that when he posted EIGHT HOURS before you made that post?

Whats bothering you? That I'm at L-1 and he isn't voting for ME?

What?! OK, now you're just reaching out as far as you can now that you're getting closer to a lynch. I just thought that Emp hadn't posted for a while, so I just wanted to ask PJ for a prod. Is that scummy?

BTW - sorry Emp, completely missed your post
Whenever, I see an avatarless post, I associate that with Electra.

[Caboose]

Unvote, vote Sociopath

I want an explanation of this vote.

[Caboose]

Fine. I'll claim I'm a Survivor. I had basically given up on this game but I guess I shouldn't.

Surior should be an easy enough win condition to fulfill

.

Why?

You're not helping us with our win condition, so why should we help us with yours? (or your supposed one)

[Caboose]

Oh, right, sorry. I forgot that its impossible for Scum to claim Survivor. Nevermind, then, keep lurking like shit, by claiming Survivor, you confirmed yourself to be non-Scum.

Have a nice, lurkish, day!

Sorry. I forgot it wa sa popular scum claim. I'll scum hunt more than.

That doesn't seem very reassuring.

:/ As of yet you haven't been helping town, but hindering it.

QFT

[Caboose]

I thought SP's roleclaim to be so absurd that I didn't know whether to believe it or not, so I just took it with a grain of salt. And here's Yaw's argument on SP again:

For SocioPath, there's...well, a lot of different things. The main one that clicked for me is that he inadvertently dropped some pretty strong hints about his role in the thread. Don't want to get into this too much because it's not 100% scum, but is comparable against a claim and I want to give him a chance to make a mistake when claiming.

When going back with that idea, I noticed first of all his behaviour towards Ooba. Remember that the Ooba-wagon started out right when the charter-wagon was gaining steam. This means that if the charter-wagon was on scum, there's a high probability that scum were driving the opposing wagon. Even if not, SocioPath was by far the most vehement about going after Ooba, going to absurd lengths to try to justify a lynch. His exit strategy looked really weak here, compared to the effort in trying to push the wagon in the first place.

The recent attempt on Electra is also symptomatic of the need to push a bandwagon anywhere, for any reason. Electra was pretty much forced by Seraphim's accusation to bring up WIFOM, which SocioPath jumped on without looking at the context (Electra was actually saying that bringing up no lynch was value neutral, while acknowledging that it's usually seen as scummy). And again he's pushing a wagon heavily, based on nothing.

In short, he's just looking to push a lynch for any reason. His bandwagoning lacks discernment, and he's unwilling to consider evidence that doesn't get his chosen victims lynched. Combine that with the role tells and we have scum.

[Caboose]

I'm a townie. simple as that.

Fine. I'll claim I'm a Survivor. I had basically given up on this game but I guess I shouldn't. Surior should be an easy enough win condition to fulfill

Despite this...despite MafiaSSK's scummy behavior...

Wait a second...something just clicked for me.

Unvote, Vote: SocioPath

I'm around 85% sure on this one. Just pull up all his posts and read.

What? That didn't make sense.

I'm around 85% sure SocioPath is scum. Bandwagon him.

What? You're trying to make it out like Yaw changed the bandwagon AFTER SSK claimed survivor? That's really misleading.

Wow, you think SSK and Yaw are scumbuddies so you vote me? That makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, really.

Why are you bringing this up today? When it does absolutely no good? If you actually thought this, you should have brought it up yesterday.

Amen.

I am merely proving a point(and unintentionally making a very strong case against MafiaSSK) that no one changed their vote after MafiaSSK claimed survivor. And I'm a little disturbed by that.

Why lynch a survivor when you could possibly lynch scum?

So, I ask again: where did I claim that the people on the SP wagon were scummy?

Look at your own tone on this post:

I'm kinda glad that ShadowGirl is dead. She would be working to keep certain people alive to win, which might incude scum.

After deep thinking...I didn't like the Sociopath lynch. After his roleclaim, I quickly backed off. I thought his roleclaim was solid and really have no idea why people continued to vote for him. The case against him was incredibly weak.

I'm still thinking about either voting for Electra or voting for Yaw(who, I believe, started that bandwagon), so...

I want everyone who was on that bandwagon at the end of the day, sans MafiaSSK(Yaw, Caboose, forbiddanlight, SensFan, Electra) to explain their reasoning on their vote on Sociopath.

By the looks of this post I think you were ready to jump on me, Yaw, Fl, Sens, or Electra.

I implied that the SP lynch was, IMO, bad town play.

That's not how it came off to me.

I was talking about changes in certainty over the time/ The more in depth the game got the more I started to worry then I finally realized it'd be okay.

[Caboose]

6. How did it come off? Where did I ever say I supported a SP lynch past his roleclaim?

It came off like you were trying to jump on someone on the SP wagon yesterday.

But I do agree with you on SSK. While SSK might not be scum, he is anti-town. So, regardless if SSK is telling the truth, he needs to be gone by LYLO.

[Caboose]

I'll give FL time to explain any more specifics she wants before hammering.

[Caboose]

He can respond tomorrow, for God's sake. Seriously, you;ve made your point. What good will come of a ton of discussion, seeing as we have decided on a lynch?

Agree, sitting and dragging today out probably isn't going to help anyone.

Vote: MafiaSSK

[Caboose]

Going to do a read-through of charter's posts tomorrow. Good night everyone.

[Caboose]

@Seraphim - Don't bother with a case on me, I have a much better case on you. I need more responses about the SensFan thing though.

I hate the dismissiveness towards Seraphim in this sentence.

[Caboose]

omg, you guys are so annoying. That's what I actually thought.

Anyway, I will claim since no one wants to respond to me. I'm a cop, I know that Sens and Seraphim are not the same alignment, and I think that Sens is town. Hence I find Seraphim to be scum. His claim of vanilla does nothing for me.

Explain exactly how your claimed role works. No one else talk about his result or his role until this is answered.

[Caboose]

Seems like a VERY weird mechanic

Given the roles that we've seen already, why are you surprised by this?

and your claims targets are poor choices.

Why, just because she targeted you?

I also am finding it incredibly likely that you are Scum looking to grab 2 mislynches.

The same thing could be said about you, Sens. You could get Electra lynched today and then if she flips cop, get Sera lynched tomorrow.

I don't like the way you crap all over Electra's supposed use of her supposed night action, Sens.

[Caboose]

Hmm...wanna revise your opinion on Sens, Electra? I normally wouldn't believe you, but given the flips so far, it's very plausible.

Not liking Sens' reaction

.

I'm not either.

Vote: SensFan

[Caboose]

I'm pretty sure I explained very clearly why I called her choice poor, actually, but nice misrep.

Really?

Not liking this claim. Seems like a VERY weird mechanic, and your claims targets are poor choices. Well, then first one is, anyways.

I find it very weird and useless. I also am finding it incredibly likely that you are Scum looking to grab 2 mislynches.

Oh, and way to answer to my request for the EXACT mechanics, then when others point out the lack of logic behind your choices, add another restriction...

I don't see where you explain how Electra's choice is poor

anywhere

. Also, I don't see what I misrepresented.

I asked her to explain the EXACT mechanics of her role, and only after people questionned her choice (of which I was not the first to do, by the way) did she mention that she couldn't self-target.

So, the fact that she left out a detail the first time she explained it makes you "not like" the roleclaim?

[Caboose]

And yes, very much so. She was asked by several people (yourself included, if I recall correctly) to give EXACT details. She made (what was as far as anyone could tell) a full claim, including targets are everything. Then her target was criticized. Then she gave an additional 'detail' that 'explained' her choice of target.

So, you're just hung up on the fact that Electra added a small detail after FL asked Electra why Electra didn't target herself?

[Caboose]

Sorry, I thought I had commented on it, but I think it was pretty obvious that I was talking about the same thing forbiddan was.

Nothing is obvious in mafia. reread your own posts before attacking someone calling you out.

I'm still waiting to hear what I misrepresented in this post.

Seems like a VERY weird mechanic

Given the roles that we've seen already, why are you surprised by this?

and your claims targets are poor choices.

Why, just because she targeted you?

I also am finding it incredibly likely that you are Scum looking to grab 2 mislynches.

The same thing could be said about you, Sens. You could get Electra lynched today and then if she flips cop, get Sera lynched tomorrow.

I don't like the way you crap all over Electra's supposed use of her supposed night action, Sens.

[Caboose]

What does the added detail have anything to do with the claimed choices? Given the restriction of not being able to target herself, what makes Electra's night targets poor?

[Caboose]

You have it backwards. Her choice makes no sense under the original role given. When she was critisized for that, she THEN added a restriction that makes her choices look better.

To be honest, I think you are nitpicking, and possibly she didn't think that she needed to say that at first.

I also think that you're nitpicking. It looks like you reacted to being identified as possible scum by trying to nitpick at Electra's roleclaim. Seriously, you're not buying the roleclaim just because Electra added a small detail a little later on (I personally think that cops not being able to target themselves to be pretty much a given). Also, there's that thing where you're accusing me of "misrep." You accused me of misrep without making the initial point clear. You started crapping on Electra's choices of investigation without any reasoning behind it (personally, I think it was you freaking out because you've been identified as possible scum) and then once you're called down on it, you throw the word "misrep" at me when there is clearly no misrep on my part. That, to me, is scummy.

Vote stands.

[Caboose]

Come on people, it's 9 days away from deadline.

@wolf - Why don't you see Sens as scum? Also, please elaborate on your case against Seraphim.

[Caboose]

Thanks for clarifying and explaining, wolf. I'm interested in seeing Seraphim respond to this. In particular, I would like Seraphim to more clearly define what about wolf is suspicious to him.

Mr. Mod, could we please have a prod on Tamuz, please?

I would like Empking, Electra, Seraphim, Sens, and wolf to read and comment on post 578.

[Caboose]

I think i explained what i think about Sens reaction to Electra's claim, and his nitpicking as you call it of her role, on my previous post. Are you asking for me to elaborate?

Yes

[Caboose]

I would like Empking, Electra, Seraphim, Sens, and wolf to read and comment on post 578.

[Caboose]

I don't think Seraphim is cleared, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense for

you

to be a serial killer

Pronouns without antecedents.

[Caboose]

Just pointing out that I essentially claimed cop for this game and I haven't been counterclaimed.

Just pointing out that means shit all.

Why?

The assumption that each game has a Cop is a ridiculously flawed one, and one I'm sure you know.

This

unvote

,

vote:SensFan

Welcome to L-1.

Whatever. Certainly not claiming until I've made a defence.

[/quote]
I would like a claim before deadline, please.

Also, happy scumday. [/nosarcasm]

[Caboose]

I also think that he has a good reason to disbelieve the claim.

Why?

What reason is there to disbelieve the claim?

Just pointing out that I essentially claimed cop for this game and I haven't been counterclaimed.

The fact that you added to your exact role claim when people mentioned mistakes.

Seriously? Is that all you've got?
First of all, it's "person", not "people." FL asked Electra why she [Electra] couldn't target herself, which I think is pretty self explanatory anyway. You and Sens are taking this addition of the fact that Electra couldn't target herself WAYYYYYY out of proportion. Why would that just blow the whole roleclaim for you, Emp? Is that really sufficient enough of a reason to discredit the ENTIRE claim? The important component of Electra's role is that she can target two people to determine if they are the same alignment or not and that's what she told us, which I find to be pretty believeable given the context of the game. But it seems like you and Sens are reaching for a reason to try to trash the entire claim.

Vote stands, but

Major FoS: Empking

.

[Caboose]

I would like Tamuz to come and join us now. We're to the point in the game where we can't have ANYONE not posting. I appreciate you replacing in for us, Tamuz, and I would like to see what you have to say. Wolf, I would like to request the same from you.

Why should his perspective be worth a damn, though? I just don't see how he can possibly justify demanding a claim for me on the basis that lynching me will tell him (and only him) that Electra is Scum.

I personally believe Electra's claim, which means that you and/or Seraphim are anti-town. I voted for you because I thought you to be the most scummy.

[Caboose]

Well, seeing as that's the only reason anyone has given me for voting me all the way to Lynch-1...

Really?

Because it clearly shows that Elektra didn't give a truthful exact role claim.

You

just

proved my point. So, if Electra left anything, no matter how small, out of the initial roleclaim, it means she was

untruthful

?

Any particular reason you believe a prematre

How was it premature? She had a result, came out on Day 2 and tried to gather info and couldn't do so, so she claimed.

unprompted,

Does the cop need to be prompted to share her findings?

claim of vague investigative role that requires two lynches to prove?

I don't think that Electra was vague. She investigates 2 people and sees if they are of the same alignment. There's not much gray area there.

I have my own opinions about other members of the town, but I want to know what other people think.

I'm curious to see what these opinions are.

[Caboose]

Yes, really. That whole post is "I don't like the way you attack the claim, Vote: Sens".

No, it's not. You accused me of misrep when clearly no misrep was there. That's scummy.

[Caboose]

Fine.

I am Peeping Tom, and can target 2 people each Night. I will learn if 1 of those people sent in an action, both of them did, or neither of them did. I can target myself.

Night 1, SensFan and Yaw both submitted an action.
Night 2, 1 of Seraphim and Caboose submitted an action.

What's your alignment?

[Caboose]

Sens, read your role PM again to make sure you're not self-aligned like SG was.

[Caboose]

I very clearly read my role PM. Why do you continue to imply I'm not Town?

I'm not, I'm just trying to make sure so that I can make sense of you and Electra's results.

Electra, Sens, or Seraphim is lying. Assuming that both Sens and Electra are telling the truth, that leaves Seraphim as scum. But then, that leaves me with a dilemma. If Sens is telling the truth, then Sera is probably not scum...

I'm really not seeing Electra lying about her role. I don't see how she could just make something up like the role she claimed. From ooba's flip, I could see how Electra's investigations are in pairs too.

Either that, or Sens' role is scum role, which I can see. Sens finds out that Yaw has a night action night 1 and then Yaw gets NKed night 2, which is pretty fishy to me (that's assuming that Sens is telling the truth about how he used his supposed role).

[Caboose]

Wolf, I implied shadowgirl though, and I clarified later, I feel. Although Electra could have thought it shadowgirl because she killed her. That... I don't know and I couldn't even speculate.

Could you please clarify this for us?

[Caboose]

I very clearly read my role PM. Why do you continue to imply I'm not Town?

I'm not, I'm just trying to make sure so that I can make sense of you and Electra's results.

Electra, Sens, or Seraphim is lying. Assuming that both Sens and Electra are telling the truth, that leaves Seraphim as scum. But then, that leaves me with a dilemma. If Sens is telling the truth, then Sera is probably not scum...

I'm really not seeing Electra lying about her role. I don't see how she could just make something up like the role she claimed. From ooba's flip, I could see how Electra's investigations are in pairs too.

Either that, or Sens' role is scum role, which I can see. Sens finds out that Yaw has a night action night 1 and then Yaw gets NKed night 2, which is pretty fishy to me (that's assuming that Sens is telling the truth about how he used his supposed role).

Can you explain why me telling the truth implies Seraphim isn't Scum?

Yes, but I won't.

[Caboose]

Caboose, I also have a question for you: did you send in a night action last night? If you're some sort of power role, then it's very probable that Electra is actually the one lying here. Because if Sens really is telling the truth, then Electra is clearly lying scum. We have both claimed town at this point. We should try and attempt to see if you have any sort of power role in order to prove SensFan's roleclaim.

Because I certainly didn't send in any night actions last night. I'm just vanilla.

I'll describe my role later, but yes, I do have a night action.

[Caboose]

Caboose, I also have a question for you: did you send in a night action last night? If you're some sort of power role, then it's very probable that Electra is actually the one lying here. Because if Sens really is telling the truth, then Electra is clearly lying scum. We have both claimed town at this point. We should try and attempt to see if you have any sort of power role in order to prove SensFan's roleclaim.

Because I certainly didn't send in any night actions last night. I'm just vanilla.

I'll describe my role later, but yes, I do have a night action.

Will wait to read this.

Why the hell does it matter? What matters is that he just confirmed my role.

Yes but the question is now is your role a town role or a scum role?

[Caboose]

Why again would my role be a Scum role?

You can see who has night actions and who doesn't, helps with finding the power roles.

[Caboose]

That's right. I haven't decided yet, although I lean towards Seraphim or forbiddan.

'
Reason for the FL suspicion?

[Caboose]

"The role could help Scum, so its probably Scum, I think. I can't really explain it. Oh, and you can't compare it to the roles it was probably based off of, since they have a meta of being Town."

ie, OMGUS. Anyone who's played with me will quite well realize I ALWAYS have this problem, and it frustrates me when I'm right.

a) I don't believe I've every played with you
b) You just admitted my reasoning wasn't OMGUS
c) You threw in Appeal to Emotion

Hmmmm...
You could have a point.
I'm going to be doing some serious rethinking of my vote now.

[Caboose]

Alright, as promised, I will tell more about my role (I'm already outed anyway).

I'm a one-shot, socially dependent vigilante. On night 2, I used my kill on charter. Now that I've used my shot, I'm a vanilla...something.

I'm not town aligned, but self-aligned. My win condition is that I win when the town wins. Basically, to win I have to be alive along with at least one more town-aligned person.

[Caboose]

Wow, I just realized I mistyped

I'm not town aligned, but self-aligned. My win condition is that I win when the town wins. Basically, to win I have to be alive along with at least one more town-aligned person.

I do not have to be alive to win. BUT if I were the only person to survive (I don't know how that would happen anyways), then I would lose. At lest one pro-town player has to survive for me to win.

That's clearer.

[Caboose]

That claim almost makes me wonder...

What are you wondering about?

[Caboose]

I do not have to be alive to win. BUT if I were the only person to survive (I don't know how that would happen anyways), then I would lose. At lest one pro-town player has to survive for me to win.

Now it's just weird. Why not just be town?

Not sure, I guess that's where the "socially dependent" part comes in.

[Caboose]

That claim almost makes me wonder...

What are you wondering about?

Well, its almost like you realize the ScumTrap I was talking about, then claimed something to get around it. The timing of your claim doesn't ease my fears.

What ScumTrap do you speak of?

[Caboose]

That claim almost makes me wonder...

What are you wondering about?

Well, its almost like you realize the ScumTrap I was talking about, then claimed something to get around it. The timing of your claim doesn't ease my fears.

I don't know what kind of BS argument that you're trying to make on me, but I claimed my role since that's what I said I would do. Since my role isn't an info role, I didn't feel the need to claim immediately.

I still think that you're scum, BTW.

[Caboose]

Very true, and it looks like i will have to claim now, being as people have jumped onto my wagon, and i am sure one of them is scum.

I am a Survivor Town Person. Once per night I can send in a guess at what group will kill me. if i guess right, I win. If I am alive at end game with at least one town member I win.

As it is, it is strange to see no one going after Seraphim after most seemed to come to the conclusion that Sens is pro-town, just to see if Electras claim is what she says it is.

From what I've seen of this game, there is only one killing group, so long as Caboose is telling the truth. So your role doesn't really make sense, not only that, but what are the potential groups that you can guess?

No. Someone has to have killed ShadowGirl or Ooba. There were 2 kills that night. I used my kill on charter N2, not N1.

[Caboose]

I could go wolf, to make a lynch happen.

Unvote, Vote: wolf

Or we could go you to get info. I think a Sens, Sera, or Electra lynch is going to yield the most info. Personally, I'm leaning Sens, but if you turn up town, Sera and Electra are people of interest tomorrow.

Confirm Vote: SensFan

[Caboose]

Very true, and it looks like i will have to claim now, being as people have jumped onto my wagon, and i am sure one of them is scum.

I am a Survivor Town Person. Once per night I can send in a guess at what group will kill me. if i guess right, I win. If I am alive at end game with at least one town member I win.

As it is, it is strange to see no one going after Seraphim after most seemed to come to the conclusion that Sens is pro-town, just to see if Electras claim is what she says it is.

From what I've seen of this game, there is only one killing group, so long as Caboose is telling the truth. So your role doesn't really make sense, not only that, but what are the potential groups that you can guess?

No. Someone has to have killed ShadowGirl or Ooba. There were 2 kills that night. I used my kill on charter N2, not N1.

Shadowgirl could have been modkilled?

True. The name of my role is "One-Shot Socially Dependent Vigilante".

[Caboose]

Pretty sure wolf is town. Far too easy for him to jump on the sens wagon for the lynch, yet he's chosen not to. I still say Sens is the play. Keeping my vote since you have enough for a deadline lynch on wolf.

This.

[Caboose]

I honestly don't know why it's so hard for us to lynch Electra, Sens, or Sera. From today, we know that one of them is lying scum. Why don't we lynch one of them to narrow the field?

[Caboose]

Claim from Tamuz and Emp.

Care to share results, Electra?

[Caboose]

I want you both to claim because there's an unanswered for kill. Tamuz needs to claim before Empking, because Empking is the innocent I got (exact same as Seraphim).

SLOW DOWN!

Sens and charter were Mafia B. So, logic would dictate that there has to be a Mafia A, most likely with 2 people in it, which means that Sera and Empking can still be scum.

I still would like to see Tamuz claim.

[Caboose]

Before I say anything, I want a Tamuz claim.

[Caboose]

Either way, I believe the best play is to lynch Caboose. I don't believe his 1-shot Vig ability in the slightest, and I think he's the most likely person alive to be scum.

Good, because it's not true. I'm a

Socially Dependent Vigilante

. I get a kill every night unless I end up targetting a dead player or I end up targetting myself. I'm self-aligned. I win when the town wins, but I need at least one town aligned person to be alive when that happens, that's where the "socially dependent" part comes in. I'm not the SK, look at my play in this game. I lied because I needed to get my kill on Sens in because I knew that no one in this game would grow a backbone and lynch Sens.

Reason why I waited for Tamuz claim: If Tamuz claimed vig, I knew that he would be the SK, but that didn't happen.

I'm trying to figure out these NKs, myself. I killed SG, charter, and Sens, but I don't know how the scum kills worked.

I know I'm not the SK. I'm just not. If you lynch me, you'll lose because there's most likely 2 mafia A out there and I'm not one of them.

That leaves Empking and Seraphim. If Electra and K are telling the truth, which I think they are, that leaves them as Mafia A.

Vote: Seraphim

[Caboose]

How would you target yourself?

Beats me, that's just what my role PM said.

Why did lying make it more likely for your kill on Sens to go through?

Because I could have gotten roleblocked, or my NK screwed around with by a scum power role.

Why did you kill Shadowgirl? What made you so willing to use your vig kill every night?

A) she didn't vote on D1, which is a pretty reliable scumtell and B) it kind of looked like she was coasting through D1. I play the vig role aggressively, I use my kill every night.

How can you suggest the possibility of a Mafia A when you know that you're responsible for half the night kills? Where did all the other kills go?

Alternating NK's? I don't know.
Does it really make sense for there to be a Mafia B without a Mafia A?

[Caboose]

Are you forced to make night kills, Caboose, or can you choose to not kill one night and kill the next night?

No, I'm not compulsive. I chose to make a kill N1.

I don't know about A or B, there appear to be many arbitrary things in the game. For example, your whole targeting yourself thing doesn't seem like it would ever happen.

There's probably a scum bus driver type role if I had to guess.

Doesn't that sound familiar? It sounds almost exactly like Caboose's win condition. Also, if you win with the town, why are you self-alligned? It doesn't make any sense that you and the townie role PM have the exact same win condition.

I don't know why I'm self aligned, that's just the way that PJ set it up. And why doesn't it make sense. I have a really powerful role already, getting me to preserve at least one townie makes my role a bit more difficult.

Caboose is the best play. Why? If Tamuz is telling the truth, Caboose is telling the truth, I'm telling the truth, Empking is telling the truth, and Electra is telling the truth...isn't it clear that someone is lying?

Caboose, I believe, is the liar. He lied on D3 and he's lying to us now.

Now, you're reaching. I lied yesterday in the hopes of advancing the town's win condition and that's exactly what I did by getting rid of Sens. I didn't to advance the imaginary SK win con that you painted on me.

How about you Seraphim? Could you possibly imagine a Mafia B without a Mafia A? Explain that one while trying to explain why I am the best play.

Kinetic, hear me out on this.

Even if I'm the SK as you accuse me to be (which I'm empatically not), lynching me is not the correct play. If you do that, then we'll all be endgamed by Mafia A. Look at my play throughout the game, and you'll see that I only have the town win condition in mind. I'm sorry I had to lie yesterday, but's it what had to be done.

[quote="]The only tricky thing is if Mafia has a roleblock - Kinetic can block Caboose, kill someone random (me for example) and then frame Caboose for the kill and try to lynch him. [/quote]
True, but if Empking turns up scum (which I'm pretty sure he will), we know who to lynch tomorrow.

Unvote
Vote: Empking

[Caboose]

If there is a Mafia A that's not you and Empking, who else besides Caboose is in it?

This. Are you going to sit and tell me that there is a one man Mafia A now Sera?

It's illogical for there to be a Mafia B, but it's just as illogical for there to be a Vig still alive, claiming half of the kills, and the game isn't over yet.

WTF? What are you talking about? Maybe one mafia has NKs and one doesn't? Maybe they alternate kills? I don't know what part about the NKs you're hung up over. But it's you trying to reach for a BS arguement, whatever it is.

Caboose is the best play because...well, he lied.

This is it? I lied to try to get Sens and get rid of Mafia B, and I'm scum for

that

? Seriously, Lynch-All-Liars is not a great philosophy to mafia. Get some scummy behavior from earlier in the game.

He's also claiming some very odd mechanics for the Mafia. He's putting out an A without explaining how this mysterious Mafia A is killing people while he has answered for SG's, SensFan's, and charter's NK.

Does this look like a normal game of mafia to you? I don't know what the mechanics are, I just know my end of them.

If there is a Mafia A, Caboose, you are it.

One man mafia? That would be an SK.
I hope everyone's seeing that Sera's accusations don't add up.

[Caboose]

Vote:Caboose

Re-read my own stuff, and I trust my gut and logic on this one. Caboose is the right play.

*sigh*
Waiting for a quick hammer from Empking.

You know what guys, I'm not going to take this. This was my first game as vig, and I did my part and I think I used my night action well. I killed 3 anti-town for three nights in a row, and look what I get for it. I just couldn't pick up the slack for the town who was SOMEHOW struggling to grow a pair and lynch Sens. I don't deserve this loss, I made logical arguements, I pointed out Mafia A, I killed off Mafia B, and look at what I get... lynched. I even sat and took notes on all you guys. Yeah, that's right. I sat and I thought out my kills instead of just killing off the lurkers and it turns out that I had a good shot. But NO. I get lynched because of the "Lynch all Liars!!!!111" stupid arguement. And you can all sit and say "this is an appeal to emotion." Guess what, it is.

I need some sleep...

[Caboose]

Vote:Caboose

Re-read my own stuff, and I trust my gut and logic on this one. Caboose is the right play.

*sigh*
Waiting for a quick hammer from Empking.

You know what guys, I'm not going to take this. This was my first game as vig, and I did my part and I think I used my night action well. I killed 3 anti-town for three nights in a row, and look what I get for it. I just couldn't pick up the slack for the town who was SOMEHOW struggling to grow a pair and lynch Sens. I don't deserve this loss, I made logical arguements, I pointed out Mafia A, I killed off Mafia B, and look at what I get... lynched. I even sat and took notes on all you guys. Yeah, that's right. I sat and I thought out my kills instead of just killing off the lurkers and it turns out that I had a good shot. But NO. I get lynched because of the "Lynch all Liars!!!!111" stupid arguement. And you can all sit and say "this is an appeal to emotion." Guess what, it is.


I need some sleep...

Empking/Sera cannot be Mafia A. That stopped being possible as soon as you claimed for all the kills.

They could be a cult I suppose, but Mafia A is impossible unless they some how don't have a kill. Cult is the only scum group I can think of that doesn't have a kill, would show up as the same alignment, and let your little fantasy survive. We know PJ's feelings on cults, so they'd have to have some other type of ability and not a recruit ability or something...

Would be a very odd role, I admit, and not something I can completely rule out in this game, but its much more likely that there is a SK or another mafia and that you are it/you are in it.

Really?

Keep your words in your notes, because you'll be eating them post game.

[Caboose]

Vote:Caboose

Re-read my own stuff, and I trust my gut and logic on this one. Caboose is the right play.

*sigh*
Waiting for a quick hammer from Empking.

You know what guys, I'm not going to take this. This was my first game as vig, and I did my part and I think I used my night action well. I killed 3 anti-town for three nights in a row, and look what I get for it. I just couldn't pick up the slack for the town who was SOMEHOW struggling to grow a pair and lynch Sens. I don't deserve this loss, I made logical arguements, I pointed out Mafia A, I killed off Mafia B, and look at what I get... lynched. I even sat and took notes on all you guys. Yeah, that's right. I sat and I thought out my kills instead of just killing off the lurkers and it turns out that I had a good shot. But NO. I get lynched because of the "Lynch all Liars!!!!111" stupid arguement. And you can all sit and say "this is an appeal to emotion." Guess what, it is.


I need some sleep...

Empking/Sera cannot be Mafia A. That stopped being possible as soon as you claimed for all the kills.

They could be a cult I suppose, but Mafia A is impossible unless they some how don't have a kill. Cult is the only scum group I can think of that doesn't have a kill, would show up as the same alignment, and let your little fantasy survive. We know PJ's feelings on cults, so they'd have to have some other type of ability and not a recruit ability or something...

Would be a very odd role, I admit, and not something I can completely rule out in this game, but its much more likely that there is a SK or another mafia and that you are it/you are in it.

Really?

Keep your words in your notes, because you'll be eating them post game.

Less than 1%. That is the odds of there being a third killing role in this game. Against the odds of you being a scum (which is around 65% in my opinion)

The ONLY case I can see of you really being a vig is that there is no other mafia, and there is only Mafia B as scum, that means there MUST be a third mafia person, and the only person THAT can be is Electra.

How are you thinking about this Kinetic? This is just pure and utter garbage.

Look at the gameplay, you'll see that I have played pro-town for 3 days straight while Seraphim has been scummy since day-frickin-two.

I'm seriously considering quoting my role PM.

[Caboose]

You just lost, Electra.

Nice job guys.

[Caboose]

Why'd you kill me, Caboose?

You acted extremely anti-town near the end of D1. You didn't vote, which is a HUGE scumtell. You also looked like you were trying to just coast through D1.

Here are my notes on you guys:

ShadowGirl
Getting major scum vibes from her. Kind of sat and coasted through D1. Didn't say anything to raise any eyebrows, but didn't actually help the town win. Didn't vote. Seemed a bit anxious to get to the night, but that could indicate a pro-town power role.

charter
Don't like the Sensfan comment, but I don't know if he deserves to be vigged because of that. Defensive at non-attacks. Asked for a SG wagon for no apparent reason. Prevents a Sensfan wagon. Asked questions with no follow up. Used crap logic to try to call me scummy. Tries to deflect attention to ooba once that wagon starts. Adopts the "everyone's out to get me" attitude. Tries to prevent SP lynch, pushed for an SSK one instead.

Electra
Was the object of an attempted last minute bandwagon, but I don't like the fact that Yaw chainsaw defended her and her OMGUS vote on SP.

forbiddanlight
Her level of activity is uncharacteristically low. Hasn't said anything scummy, though.

MafiaSSK
Very anti-town, but not necessarily scum. I'm buying his roleclaim. He might be my target N2 depending on how he acts D2.

Empking
Nat bugged the crap out of me. Anti-town play, but not necessarily scum. Weak reason to vote Electra. I don't really have a read on him yet.

Ooba
His first few posts pinged on my scumdar because of the lack of reasoning. Yaw's chainsaw defense of ooba also doesn't really sit well with me, I'm surprised that I didn't see that at the time. Voted SSK on the last few pages with little reason, send up a red flag with me. Would be informative to learn his alignment because it provides insight into Yaw's, Seraphim's, and possibly Empking's. Probable kill for tonight.

RandomGem
Don't really have a read on him.

Sensfan
I'm seriously considering vigging him so that I don't have to see his avatar again. Nothing really stuck out as scummy to me today.

Seraphim
Possibly scum from his starting a bandwagon on Electra at the last second possibly to save SSK. Possible scumpartner is Yaw.

wolf
No read yet. Pretty opportunistic jump onto SSK wagon, though.

Yaw
Really not liking his play. He starts a wagon on SP, pretty much chainsaw defending Electra and steered wagon away from SSK.

Alright, so I'm going to make my final decision based on what I just observed and my gut.

Kill: ShadowGirl

What the F*&k?! Why did SSK sit and lie to us?
I'm OK with my kill last night. While SG wasn't scum, she was anti-town.

Now, for tonight...

charter
Something about him that I'm just not liking. There's the SP issue (where he "thought" that SP was town and setting himself up for "told you so"), he's defending Seraphim (who I think is scummy, but we can lynch him tomorrow), and he didn't explain his vote on SSK. Also, uncharacteristically low activity. Trying to hurry up the SSK lynch. Most likely scum in my eyes if SSK doesn't flip scum.

Electra
Not sure about her (I hope I'm getting the pronoun right).

forbiddanlight
Rolefishing at the beginning of D2. Trying to prolong the day for no good reason.

Empking
Needs to participate

RandomGem
Hasn't participated

Sensfan
Seems town to me

Seraphim
Starts on soft crap attacks on both me and Yaw busting out of the gates on D2. Could be scum.

wolf
Also trying to delay an SSK lynch.

Yaw
Subtle rolefishing at the beginning of D2, but I think he's been exonerated by the fact that SP flipped town.

Hopefully this one is good.

Kill: charter

Alright, bagged a scum last night.
But there's no time to gloat, it's time to take care of charter's scumbuddies...

Electra
I believe her cop claim for now.

forbiddanlight
Not sure why she wanted Sens bandwagon D1, but it increases scuminess seeing that charter flipped scum. Tried a crap attack on me D1 and then backed off when she saw that it was going to blow up in her face. Scummy since that's exactly what charter did as well. Subtle rolefishing D2. Tried to drag out D2 more than needed. Flips out when Electra claims and tries to crap on her claim, then goes along with me. Probably SK.

Empking
Extremely scummy. Talks about 2 factions of scum at beginning of day. Buddies up with Sens. Depends on how Sens flips.

Tamuz
RandomGem jumps in and attacks the case on charter D1. Then, he jumps in again and attacks the case on SSK D1. Sits and tries to call all cases weak D1, which increases scuminess. Subtle rolefishing.

Sensfan
Crazy scummy from FL's and my conversation with him. Role sounds like scum role.

Seraphim
Yaw flipping town and charter flipping scum increases scuminess. Gives a claim when not even close to being lynched. Tried a crap attack on me D2 and backed off. If FL flips town, it increases his scuminess. Most likely confirmed town if Sens flips scum.

At this point I think that the rest of the scumteam is Tamuz and Sens. The SK is most likely FL.

Kill: SensFan

I had Tamuz pegged on Night 3. If we had lynched Sens Day 3, I would have vigged Tamuz.

I'm happy with my performance, though.

[Caboose]

Oh, and
@PJ: Did you think my notes were annoying or interesting?

[Caboose]

I didn't think Caboose was scum, but Empking was obviously not going to vote himself, and I figured that it wouldn't hurt us as long as there was no Mafia A. Unfortunately, Seraphim decided I was Mafia at some point, which made 0 sense, considering that I said that Sens and him were opposite alignments and Sens turned out to be scum.

If we had just ignored roles and lynched whoever was most suspicious though, it definitely would have been Kinetic based on Caboose/Seraphim's play. Sigh. Whatever.

Then what the hell did you hammer me for?!

Additionally EVEN if he was SK, in that situation it would STILL be Emp/Sera/Him in end game and Emp/Sera would know he was SK if that happened. If he brought that point up, town might have won.

I believe I did bring up that point.

I personally don't think

I

could have done any better this game, Kinetic.

[Caboose]

You acted extremely anti-town near the end of D1. You didn't vote, which is a HUGE scumtell. You also looked like you were trying to just coast through D1.

I didn't want to go after anyone and then change my mind the next day about it. And plus, I didn't vote because I didn't the candidates up for lynch for scum. As well, SSK was an easy lynch so I didn't want to lynch him that day.

Well, my vig of you actually wasn't a misvig. While you weren't scum, you were anti-town, which is the closest thing there is to scum.