Mafia 89: Revenge (Game Over)

[Knight of Cydonia]

Completely OMGUS Vote: Santos

Yes, and it freaking rocks. Do not say anything against Muse, so help me I will eat your babies.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Unvote ; Vote -TinVision-

Firstly, I'm Irish.
Secondly - they rock. Shaddap.

[Knight of Cydonia]

unvote, vote KoC

For unnatural defensiveness... of a rock band.


Waits for him to tell me they aren't rock.

PROG-ROOOOOCCCCCCKKK! (with emo/electronic/classical slants)

unvote; Vote q21

I like this random voting. WE should do this more often.

[Knight of Cydonia]

BridgesAndBaloons - thank god someone remembered that. We need to keep that in mind, otherwise lurking is going to be easy in this game.

[Knight of Cydonia]

unvote

Bored now.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I think that there are probably five or six. A quarter scum seems about balanced.

I also am always one to think that the cop should claim assuming that we have a doctor. Though that isn't guaranteed is it? The doctor certainly shouldn't claim.

Wow, do you think you could start role-fishing and getting into a fairly pointless debate about scum-numbers any quicker?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Because it's easy for a scum-claiming cop to use it to get someone killed, and then claim paranoid/insane cop. The scum get a cheap lynch, and since it's possible to be a pro-town insane/paranoid cop, the scum can get away with it.

We don't need to worry about role blockers, or godfathers.

This feels SO icky it hurts. These are both acceptable New York roles, AFAIK.

I have yet to see a multi-cop game

I'm in two right now. Can't link, obviously, but they're out there.


Frankly, Azrael, I suggest you shut up about asking for mass-claims/doc claims/cop claims this early - and teh fact that you said "don't worry about RB/GF's" really smells - I think you're trying to throw people off looking for that kind of role - so I'm going to

unvote; Vote Azrael001

until you can come up with a damn good reason why you want claims this early.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Being a newb doesn't exclude the possibility of Azrael being newb-scum - and so far, he's done nothing to justify the removal of my vote. The fact he's still trying to get a cop claim, and possibly even a doc claim, still really bugs me, and the fact that he continues to try and defend such a scummy position against all common sense... it looks like newb-scum that has realised that there quite frankly is no way out of this, and is just digging as best he can.

[Knight of Cydonia]

EBWOP:

You guys are sensitive. So Azrael speculates on the roles. This doesn't matter.

On P3 of D1, speculation AND asking for a cop claim doesn't matter?

FoS Lowell

[Knight of Cydonia]

Lowell, Azrael - all good to me. Light-Kun... meh. Not sure yet.

unvote; Vote: Lowell
Giant HoS: Azrael

[Knight of Cydonia]

Aagh, I am lynched, apparently. 23 votes - more votes than players... eep.
Go town, etc.

[Knight of Cydonia]

No, you can has sandwich. Or cheezburger.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Azrael001 post 52: I would think by now you would know the do's and don't's of mafia. This is a big don't FOS
Azrael001 POST 57: By outing the roles scum have the advantage on who to kill first. Bad logic
killa seven: post 60: bravo
super random: post 63: misses the point entirely.
Azrael001: Post 67: my head hurts. Outing the cop unnecessarly does not help the town. If the cop had a guilty I would say please so you have a guilty. Guess what it's day 1 and no info. Deal with scum hunting instead of role fishing.
Azrael001 post 70: No. It isn't just a simple doc, cop, gf roles. there can be role blockers, trackers, nurses anything as long as the game is normal.
Lowell psot 84: Then tell me who you find scummy?
Lowell post 92: Better reason taking a side why? Is one town and one scum in your view? Why?
super random post 103: feels like a me too post.
MonkeyM post 104: really lets BW for no reason.

Okay in short. AZ just stop. I get newbie who just doesn't have a clue read on this. Some of the votes on him are people who aren't explaining he is wrong. Lowell defending and taking a side is weird, but I don't see it vote worthy and people already speculating on a scum group when no everyone posting deserves and FOS
Man I don't know who is worse. KOC for speculation and trying to start a wagon on a newb without a clue. Monkey or super's vote switch to start a BW with no reason.

unvote:
vote: KOC
FOS: Monkey and Random super

I'm not speculating, farside, I'm voting Azrael for speculating and asking for a cop claim.
I also like how you refer to the posts of your two FoSes, but give nothing against me - not even noting where my posts are.

FoS: farside

Votecount:
Knight of Cydonia - 4 (Santos, Azrael001, Lowell, farside22)
Lowell - 3 (super random dude, MonkeyMan576, Knight of Cydonia)
Azrael001 - 2 (q21, Light-kun)
killa seven - 1 (Jebus)
MonkeyMan576 - 1 (Sun Tzu)
Santos - 1 (ahaad)
Light-kun - 1 (BridgesAndBaloons)
Not voting: Wiccan Honor, Aceagain, Markenstein, sekinj, killa seven, smithy88, -TinVision-, PerArdua, alvinz95
With 22 alive, it's 12 to lynch.

[Knight of Cydonia]

That's called bastard modding, and it's not Phate's style, AFAIK.
But still, it's more useless speculation - becoming a habit of yours.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I think B&B may be on to something regarding KoC, but at this point I'm equally suspicious of Lowell, so my vote stays.

But no FoS, or indeed, any meaningful statement of why you agree, or what makes you so certain that B&B is safe to follow. Hmph.

FoS MonkeyMan576

until you explain why you're so certain that B&B is a good person to follow opinion-wise.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Incidentally - I find it amusing that Azrael and Lowell seem to be getting away scot-free with an OMGUS vote each on me.

[Knight of Cydonia]

What a surprise - no-one is scummier than the guy voting for someone who defended you like a rabid dog on a leash. Chainsaw, much?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Antagonism =/= Scumminess, monkeyman.
Also, I'd suggest to you that that was a perfectly valid point I made about Azrael and Lowell chainsawing for each other, and that calling me antagonistic, with no evidence of any actual scummy play in your vote post, is a very weak reason for a vote - almost as weak as Lowell's "I'm voting for KoC because I want to defend someone I can't possibly confirm as town, unless I'm scum" vote.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Antagonism =/= Scumminess, monkeyman.
Also, I'd suggest to you that that was a perfectly valid point I made about Azrael and Lowell chainsawing for each other, and that calling me antagonistic, with no evidence of any actual scummy play in your vote post, is a very weak reason for a vote - almost as weak as Lowell's "I'm voting for KoC because I want to defend someone I can't possibly confirm as town, unless I'm scum" vote.

Well, it's day one, so a weak reason for a vote is a lot better than no reason for a vote. Your play has been very anti-town so far, you've been far more worried about yourself than scum hunting, so I'm pretty comfortable with my vote.

What the hell? Yes, I haven't been scum-hunting, having been attacking Simpor and Lowell and calling them scum since random stage ended?!?!
And if you think I'm playing anti-town, I suggest you read a couple of my games where I was town. I have a habit of going all out when I think I have scum. Maybe a little too quickly, but I trust my gut.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Honestly, I could go for either Lowell or KoC at this point. The reason I have my vote for KoC at this point is that Lowell just seems to be playing poorly, wheras KoC seems to be methodically trying to hinder the town.

Yes, because accusing someone of being scum is clearly hindering the town.

Also - do you honestly think i'm some dumb Townsperson in his first "real" game, stupid enough to claim role at L-7 based on a pile of OMGUS and opportunistic voting? (Looking at you, Santos)

Lowell is accusing me of blowing up, which is at best a null tell - although he and monkey are conveniently repackaging it as "OMG ONLY SCUM GET ANGRY", and yet, for me, Lowell seems more scummy in his reaction to the last few pages.

I'm playing on a level of awesomeness you can't fathom. I can see how you might miss it.

Now, to me, this reads like cocky scum who thinks they already have their first mis-lynch lined up, and is just waiting for townies to follow his lead. Also, note the subtle interactions between him and monkey - not exactly friendly, but never showing any open hostility.

Honestly, I could go for either Lowell or KoC at this point. The reason I have my vote for KoC at this point is that Lowell just seems to be playing poorly, wheras KoC seems to be methodically trying to hinder the town.

This is such a pathetic attempt to distance - you'd vote Lowell for playing poorly? Really? Is that it? It's just another attempt to make the chainsaw look less obvious.

[Knight of Cydonia]

EBWOP:

So, let's get some role claims off some people who we find most scummy and then see if we believe them or not...

I agree, my vote is opportunistic. Why isn't anyone else taking advantage of this so we can either lynch someone or move on to another person?

Okay, first off - you want D1 role claims? Really? Wow, it's like Simpor has a twin in the room.
Oh, and admitting your vote is opportunistic doesn't make it alright - and saying "let's lynch or move on"... Jeez, boy, wake up.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'll say it again, MonkeyMan, and try to listen - antagonism/attitude =/= scumminess.
Got that? And what's wrong with FoSing people who vote me weakly? Now stop trying to justify your chainsaw so weakly - if you can find some good reasoning behind it, I'll be happy to refute it - but right now, you seem to just be spouting the same crapola as Lowell and Azrael.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Well most people would react a little badly to a poorly reasoned, opportunistic wagon, y'know?

[Knight of Cydonia]

EBWOP:
Also, I'm sorry, but Lowell's vote for me was completely reasonless, and a pure chainsaw vote. Feel free to show me where Lowell gives any reason other than his "I'm coming down on Azrael's side on this" vote, though.

[Knight of Cydonia]

At L-8/7? Not while my bollocks hang in a loose fleshy sack, sir.
Oh, and thanks for completely ignoring all the points I raise and continuing a near-baseless attack on me, by the way.

[Knight of Cydonia]

My vote (singular) isn't OMGUS. Everyone who is currently voting me is either OMGUS (Azrael + Lowell), opportunistic (Santos) or chainsawing for someone else (Azrael, Lowell and MonkeyMan). Also - since when did a role-claim become "substantial evidence"? A D1 roleclaim is utterly pointless, and if I have a role, and I'm not stating that I do or do not, claiming it just gives the scum their N1 target for free.

Well most people would react a little badly to a poorly reasoned, opportunistic wagon, y'know?

More so if they are scum, since there are less scum than town.

I second the call for a roleclaim.

SO by your reasoning, anyone who gets frustated, angry, or in anyway emotional when a crap wagon is formed on them is def-scum?
And yes, your attack is near-baseless, since you're yet to post a single piece of concrete evidence other than saying my play is "hindering the town" in some indefinable way.

To summarise:
- I am not going to claim a role, or lack thereof, whichever it may be, at L-7. L-2, perhaps, but I would hope people would see sense before then.
- MonkeyMan has ignored what points I have bought against him, and failed to post a single shred of evidence to support his claims that I am hindering the town.
- Indeed, I would suggest that MonkeyMan and Santos' calling for such an early roleclaim hinders the town more than anything I may be accused of doing, since if I have a role, claiming it now would only serve to paint a bullseye on my forehead.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Thanks for making the long drive in from Lurksville. Let me know when you intend to have any original thought.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Santos and Azrael are town. Don't ask how I know. Magic.

I grow tired of this. Put up or shut up, Lowell, stop making mysterious comments are declaring players to be town. The only people who know who is town and who isn't definitively are the Mafia, or Mafias, if we have a two-faction setup. So, are you mafia then, if you know they're town?

I believe that trying to determine the role makeup of the game is a very productive thing for the town to do

Come on, now, really? From where I'm standing, all it does is let the scum know how many power roles they have to find, and lets them know what they're up against, so that they can look for specific signs/breadcrumbs. Only an idiot would suggest role-fishing is protown. Please, for the love of god, stop trying to use this as some kind of argument.

MonkeyMan - why should kuribo think twice about allying with me? Because it seems like this is something similar to an argument I used in a (ongoing) game as scum - "you're defending him, therefore you're either scum who wants an 'I told you so' card, or scum defending a buddy". Also, how exactly have you been "looking for scum in different directions"? You've ostensibly said you find Lowell as scummy as me, but I've yet to see any reason for this, or indeed anything to back that statement up - you've just been tunnelling on me.

Votecount:
Knight of Cydonia - 4 (Lowell, farside22, MonkeyMan576, Santos)
Lowell - 3 (super random dude, Knight of Cydonia, armlx)
Santos - 3 (ahaad, q21, Shanba)
MonkeyMan576 - 2 (Sun Tzu, kuribo)
killa seven - 1 (Jebus)
Not voting: johhan, sekinj, killa seven, PerArdua, alvinz95, Light-kun, BridgesAndBaloons, -TinVision-, Azrael001
With 22 alive, it's 12 to lynch.

[Knight of Cydonia]

What you're doing, MonkeyMan, is pressuring me in the hope that I'll claim a power role. THe only people with a vested interest in getting early role-claims are the Mafia, since it takes away what powers the town have to help us find scum and protect each other.
And I find it interesting that all your cases of "pro-town rolefishing" (oxymoron, much?) are conveniently off-site, and that you have failed to link to them. Can you link to those games, or not? If not, stop using them as evidence in your favour, because if I can't see it, I ain't gonna trust it, and it's not going to stop me thinking you're scum.

[Knight of Cydonia]

326 looks like distancing, just as Monkey's "I could go for either Lowell or KoC... but I'll go for KoC" post.

[Knight of Cydonia]

When I say chainsawing, and my definition may be a tad different to the wiki-sanctified version, I mean that Lowell gave an incredibly weak reason to "come down on your side" and vote for me, as to some extent did MonkeyMan - although he at least made a vague effort to make it look like he actually had a case. That's what I call chainsawing - voting or arguing specifically to defend a player, and attack anyone attacking him or her. OMGUS on behalf of others, basically.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Light-kun, I want you to put together what you perceive to be the case against MonkeyMan. While I applaud the intention , I have no desire to let you get away with "what he said" wagoning - especially this early in the game, where, if we have a single large scum group, an early distancing scum-lynch pushed by scum is an entirely valid tactic. And if we have multiple scum groups, it's even more in your interest to lynch opposing scum. Also, that's the first post of substance by you in a while - it almost feels like you were waiting to see which side of the debate it might be safest to come down upon. So, yes, I am asking you to bring the case together. Quoted properly, not paraphrased, preferably.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Great. You actually picked up some stuff I missed there, which is good. Now if you can keep that up all game... unless you're scum, of course. In which case, stop posting... now.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Votecount:
Knight of Cydonia - 4 (Lowell, farside22, MonkeyMan576, Knight of Cydonia)
Lowell - 4 (super random dude, Knight of Cydonia, armlx, PerArdua)

I really hope this isn't a vote manipulation, and is just a miscount, Mod.

My bad; thanks for pointing that out. Fixing now.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm not even gonna be here for the holidays - I'm away from the 21st till the 5th, and I'll probably not be able to post at all then. Damn you, CHristmas.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Wow, KoC and Lowell are voting for me. Two of the people I pointed out as being anti-town. That should tell you something.

Liar. I was voting Lowell when you posted this.
But hey, let me make it easier - Lynch All Liars.

unvote; Vote MonkeyMan576

for deliberately falsely accusing me of an OMGUS vote.

[Knight of Cydonia]

EBWOP - damn you simulposting. I find it convenient that Monkey suddenly happened to go for the only wagon that looked like gaining steam - apart from his own, of course.

[Knight of Cydonia]

So am I. Thanks for ignoring the fact that YOU LIED TO TRY AND MISLYNCH ME.
Scum No. 1 = MonkeyMan.
Be a hero, people.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Votecount:
Knight of Cydonia - 4 (Lowell, farside22, MonkeyMan576, Knight of Cydonia)
Lowell - 4 (super random dude, Knight of Cydonia, armlx, PerArdua)

I really hope this isn't a vote manipulation, and is just a miscount, Mod.

O RLY? It's not just this, MonkeyMan, it's the fact that you're trying to now jump onto the Lowell wagon as soon as he starts to nose ahead of the misinformed wagon on me. LAL, town, please.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Then why not put your vote back on me? Are you worried about what the town will think? Because only scum worry about what other townies think - townies just worry about lynching scum.
And for the last damn time, it's NOT TUNNEL VISION. You lied to try and get a mislynch on me, then instantly went volte-face when you saw the Lowell wagon looking like it might speed up. Not to mention the fact I've been voting Lowell for most of the day so far - the fact I've had to defend myself against your bullcrap isn't tunnel vision, it's a reflection of your tunnel vision on me until Lowell came into the firing line.

[Knight of Cydonia]

1. It wasn't a mod mistake, it was a lie - I never voted for you until just now, so there was no way you could get confused - I FoSed you a way back, but never voted you. I even quoted the ballsed-up count when I reported it to the mod - that means there was TWO posts showing that I wasn't voting for you at any point (one after the mod fixed it)
2. WHere did I point out my suspicious behaviour/tunnel vision as a mask to avoid the lynch? Add deliberate misrep to your growing list of crimes.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Where is it a matter of record? You did lie about my vote - I've never voted you, mod-mistake or not. You didn't see that Lowell and I had voted you, because we hadn't! And the vote count never said that! I did post that I'd been accused of suspicious behaviour - that's not admitting to it, that acknowledging the accusation, however wrong it may be! I never said that my supposed tunnel vision was a mask to avoid getting lynched! Are you ever going to substantiate these wild claims with quotes, or are you going to keep digging a pit of lies?

[Knight of Cydonia]

...Lowell - what?

[Knight of Cydonia]

The vote count NEVER said I was voting for you. I quoted the vote-count error when I asked the modd to fix it, and I've quoted it again on this page - it said I was voting for Lowell and myself. NOT YOU. I have never voted you, and the vote count has never said I was voting for you. I'm not fishing for scumtells, this is a scum tell - you lied to try and justify the vote you had on me at that point, and to encourage others to mislynch me.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Where does it say I have to accept your apology as if you're a confirmed townie? You're not, I think your scum, and the fact is, I have plenty of tells on you as well - you've ignored any points that don't suit your purpose, you've made a pile of crap attacks on me today, and this lie that you're trying to cover up now is just icing on a three-tiered wedding cake.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Well that ain't gonna make much difference - you haven't been responding to half of what I've written anyway.

[Knight of Cydonia]

We have way too many people not voting

MonkeyMan

.

Fixed.

Also, mod, I hate to be anal (believe it or not) but you've got monkeyman voting two people - it looks like you put MonkeyMan on his own vote count in place of my vote on him.

Aargh. 22-player votecounts suck. Sorry, and thanks for pointing that out.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Magisterrain:
1) Why did you HoS both myself AND monkey, then vote me later in the post?
2) Do you actually have any case other than calling a perfectly valid point ad hominem? It's not ad hominem, I'm pressing the fact I believe he lied deliberately, and trying to get him to answer the points he conveniently ignores.
3)Why a HoS for "taking things rather personally and tunneling"? That seems a pretty weak reason for even an FoS, let alone a "giant HoS".

[Knight of Cydonia]

If you honestly think I am scum, nothing I say should change your mind. But hey, I'll humour you.

1) If these "scummy statements" aren't in your next post, I'm going to get angry. Angrier. Being first on a wagon that later derails isn't scummy - wagon position in general is a poor scum-tell unless it's an obvious quicklynch rush - and if that happens, it's usually in LyLo when the scum can win easily. The "be a hero" comment is just an off-hand remark. You never make those from time to time? You never ask people to vote for someone?

2) SAying he might have misread the votecount may be an explanation, but it isn't necessarily a good, or truthful one. Look at the post where he accuses me and Lowell of OMGUSing him, then look how long it takes him to retract it - I would expect a townie to immediately admit the mistake, but Monkey holds on until it becomes clear the lie isn't going to last. And calling someone a liar when you think they're lying isn't ad hominem, AFAIK.

3) I don't think it's a repeated appeal to emotion. Monkey deliberately evaded some of the points I made whilst pushing the fact I think he's lying, he still hasn't answered them, and yes, I did get a little annoyed. I certainly wasn't appealing to anyone, apart from perhaps the "be a hero" comment, but I wouldn't call that an appeal to emotion. And while we're here, looking at your post, I don't see one phrase that couldd be interpreted as "he's making an appeal to emotion". I see you accusing me of ad hominem, taking things personally, and tunnelling, but nothing to do with an appeal to emotion.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Why is monkey man still alive?

Y'know, I ask myself that every time I check this thread.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Let's take a look at the sequence of events, shall we?

1) Person A and B exhibits scummy behavior
2) I point out scummy behavior of Persons A and B
3) Person A backlashes at me for pointing out his scummy behavior
4) Person A and B votes for me for pointing out their scummy behavior
5) Person A successfully masks his scummy behavior by

getting other townies

to vote for me for pointing out person A's scummy behavior

Freudian slip, much?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Vote: Lowell

Add deliberate bussing until better wagons appeared to all the reasons he was No. 2 on my list yesterday.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Also, call this WIFOM, but there's no way I'm attacking a scumbuddy to draw out a fakeclaim, and THEN backing off.

Sounds plausible to me. Draw out the claim under pressure, then use it as a free ticket. I've done it before. So yes, I am calling it WIFOM, and I'm happy with my vote. I'd say that, as long as it's done right, this could be an excellent scum tactic to get at least 4 dead townies (mislynch, night kill, fake-claim led mislynch, night kill) for the cost of 1 scum in a game which probably has 4 scum, plus either 2x vig/2x SK/1 vig + 1 SK.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Lowell over Mafiaplayer today, any day.

[Knight of Cydonia]

^^^ This.

[Knight of Cydonia]

He's V/LA until Wednesday, but I still want a proper explanation of his behaviour D1, from the early Azrael buddying, to the Monkeyman weak wagon, to the jump to the lynch wagon when it looked convenient.

[Knight of Cydonia]

While I liked KoC before, I'm not so sure anymore. Also what TV is doing. The only thing that keeps me from voting them, is that the nightkills don't make sense that way.

Why don't you like me? Like me. Please. I like you. We're all friends here. Let's just all like each other. Scum not included.

[Knight of Cydonia]

He just needs to be removed from the game in some manner.

Also, note that armlx doesn't say "he should be lynched or vigged". Perhaps he's trying to hint to his scumbuddies before night that MafiaPlayer would be an optimal night-kill?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Sorry, mykonian, I had other games I've been away from longer to catch up with. Can you direct me to whatever issues/posts you want addressed?

[Knight of Cydonia]

I think his insistence on leaving MP for the night is weird, and the strength of his feeling could be read either way. I'm still not 100% on MafiaPlayer as scum, but it looks more likely as the day goes on. I still prefer a Lowell lynch, and await his return with baited

beartraps

breath.

[Knight of Cydonia]

----

I think his insistence on leaving MP for the night is weird, and the strength of his feeling could be read either way. I'm still not 100% on MafiaPlayer as scum, but it looks more likely as the day goes on. I still prefer a Lowell lynch, and await his return with baited

beartraps

breath.

If you're not sold on MP, then between MM and Lowell there's got to be at least 1 other scum. (Most likely more in this group.) I appreciate you being focused on your target, but I think you should at least be following the discussion. Surely you have other considerations about possible scum floating around.

I said I wasn't 100% on MP - i still think he's more likely to be scum than a lot of other people in this game. Lowell is still the optimal lynch IMHO, but if it becomes apparent that it's not going to happen, I would be willing to hammer MP, as he's second on my scum-list.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Posting this in all my games - I've just been diagnosed with cancer, so I will have intermittent periods of 4-5 days V/LA for the next few months. I will try and give some advance notice of these. I'm okay for now, however.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Umm... yeah. thanks.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Ugh. I think Lowell is still a better candidate for the lynch than MP, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen today. I'll drop to my second suspect (MafiaPlayer) if I'm guaranteed that Lowell won't slip under the radar, like he did today to some extent.

[Knight of Cydonia]

You included, occasionally, kuribo.

[Knight of Cydonia]

SK is anti-town. Maf/SK/Vig isn't inconceivable.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Touche.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm struggling to see a pro-town reason for that carefully worded, groundless attack.

[Knight of Cydonia]

unvote, vote myko

. The more I look at this the more I think the MP wagon is just a convenient excuse for a lot of people. I'll jump on Vi's idea.

So you call the MP wagon a convenient excuse... but what is "I'll jump on Vi's idea" if not a convenient excuse?

[Knight of Cydonia]

...Did you just daykill Mykonian out of the blue? Srsly?
Not-scum points because I've never seen a day-kill scum in any of my games, but unless my scumdar is way off, Myk was probably one of my more pro-town reads - yeah, he role-speculated a bit, but I've seen scum and town do that.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Azrael continues to worry me with his weak wagon-jumping.
Top 3 scummiest, IMHO:
- Lowell
- Azrael
- Light-kun.

Votecount:
Mafiaplayer - 4 (Yosarian2, mykonian, Light-kun, CF Riot)
Lowell - 3 (armlx, Knight of Cydonia, Shanba)
Light-kun - 3 (Vi, popsofctown, Azrael001)
mykonian - 1 (Lowell)
Not voting: Alabaska J, The Central Scrutinizer, Sun Tzu, BridgesAndBaloons, Mafiaplayer, kuribo

With 17 alive, it's 9 to lynch.

[Knight of Cydonia]

KoC: POSSIBLY Serial Killer. I feel he can be, but he hasn't felt like a mafiaoso at all. He is almost ANTI-mafiaoso.

In any case: I am going to explain this:
I am not hinting at any role except (conceivably) two. And, here they are:

Townie-Because I have no special powers and if my posts are not fun for me to type, then how the hell is this game any fun? Alternatively would be to look super townie (I kind of attempted this day 1) so that scum would conceive: Hey, look at that guy, we should kill him. However, today, when I am called too convenient and laid back, I realized that I probably failed to look very protown, and as a result, I learned that I can't look very protown. (This will suck if I am ever scum, neh?)

Jester-Joke on loltastic (I guess...?), which is actually a quote from Vi, who said it about a comment I made.

Role-speculation about me, and supposedly he is one of two roles we can't afford to lynch. Huh.

Also, notice that the people voting for Lowell are scummy or Serial Killer, apparently. Hmm. Chainsaw, much?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Apparently sub-par play is a scum tell now... Mediocre play is the best way to survive. You generate enough suspicion that the anti-town factions don't use their kill on you, and you don't generate enough suspicion to get lynched. I hate to pull a Lowell, but "I'm playing on a level that you can't comprehend." [/sarcasm]

I had a rocky start to the game, I changed my style to better suit this site. I did this to avoid death. The tells here are still foreign to me, I am not used to spazzes flipping out, and robotic vets. The eighty replacements don't help either. It is hard for me to build up a decent mental case against someone when there are four or five replacements in, and I am too lazy to keep notes.

This hurts so much. Really? It's okay to be slightly scummy, because that way you don't get NK'd or close enough to being lynched? Novel idea Azrael - try playing town if you're town. Which I doubt. It's as if you feel some need to quantify your survival past N1, when no-one has raised that question - almost pre-emptive WIFOM along the lines of "I'm too scummy to be scum, and if I wasn't scummy, scum would have NK'd me".

[Knight of Cydonia]

Except it wasn't a lack of vote, it was a weak bus that you jumped off of ASAP.
Add everything scummy from D1 to your inability to answer questions properly, deliberate deflection of accusations... do we really need any more scum-tells here? I think all that's left would be for a Cop to claim a guilty on you.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Azrael - why should you not want to vote because I'm on the wagon?
If you think Lowell is scum, and you also think (however misguidedly) that I'm scum, the fact that I'm on Lowell's wagon shouldn't trouble you.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Willingness to lynch =/= scummy.

Oh, and Azrael, you reasoning for not getting on the Lowell wagon sucks - if you don't trust my reasoning, Armlx and Shanba are also voting Lowell - do you honestly think all teh scum (or a large proportion, who knows?) are on one wagon?
It almost seems like you're OMGUSing me for my early D1 outburst by refusing to get on the same wagon as me, if that makes sense.

[Knight of Cydonia]

We've given you something real repeatedly, Lowell. You choose to ignore it and brush it off, that is the problem.

[Knight of Cydonia]

O is for "Oh!"
M is for "My!"
G is for "God!"
U is for "You!"
S is for "Suck!"

Put 'em all together, what do they spell?

Lowell

OMGUS!
But nice try, Lowell.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Light-kun, right now, your suspicions seem to be either OMGUS or chainsawing for Lowell. Are you going to elaborate on

why

you think armlx and CFR are scum? And not just "feelings" but actual scummy quotation?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Light-kun - for me, chainsaw defence implies scummy reasoning, i.e. scum protecting a buddy. So it does kind of invalidate it. Also - admitting to chainsawing for Lowell and OMGUSing against armlx doesn't mean that's alright - it just means you admitted it.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Well, according to what a chainsaw defense is, it isn't necessarily scummy. It just means that I am attacking somebody who is attacking someone. From a third players pov, it could be the chainsaw defense. To me, I am calling out tunnel vision.

No, the point of a chainsaw defence is that you attack someone with the aim of taking pressure off a scumbuddy, onto them. It's the definition of scummy, since it's an act where one scum aims to preserve another from the lynch.
And for the record, I have seen a town-based roleblocker before, in a Theme game I ran on another site, which was based on the Chzo Mythos. Trilby was a roleblocker/1 shot vig in that game, pro-town.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm willing to bet my left nut L-K and Lowell are scum together.

unvote; Vote Light-kun

for trying to justify his chainsawing by repeating his chainsawing.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I think he is likely scum, especially with that jump on the CFR burgeoning wagon there,
but I would infinitely prefer that Lowell is made to dance the hemp fandango first. I'd be willing to support an MP lynch tomorrow if those on the MP wagon right now move to Lowell and lynch him today, then MP tomorrow, basically.

[Knight of Cydonia]

So I'm not allowed to say it, but you are, mykonian?
The only difference is I say it openly - I'm willing to lynch my second suspect tomorrow,
if the MP wagon helps me lynch my top suspect today.

[Knight of Cydonia]

MP tomorrow because. Simple as. Lowell is scummier IMHO, has been scummier consistently throughout the game, and therefore should be lynched before we move on to any quarrels about MP's roleblocker claim, how it fails in so many ways, and whether or not his actions after it were scummy (Hint - answer is "Yes")

[Knight of Cydonia]

unvote; Vote Lowell

but IGMEOY, Light-kun and Mafiaplayer.

[Knight of Cydonia]

O is for "Oh!"
M is for "My"
G is for "God!"
U is for "You!"
S is for "Suck!"

Put them together, whaddya get?
OMGUS! Or, perhaps... LOWELL!

[Knight of Cydonia]

Claim or die, Lowell.
Or both. Both is good.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Well, I got my Lowell lynch, so this is only fair.
Mafiaplayer, if you are scum, you need to apologise to your buddies after this game. And if you're town... go now and never come back.

Vote: Mafiaplayer

[Knight of Cydonia]

Not really. I did say that if Lowell was lynched, I would be voting Mafiaplayer next.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I think Mafiaplayer is scum, mostly because of the roleblocker result - which makes no sense whatsoever - and the way he reacted to people's reactions.

Also, what happened if you looked at the game now and re-thought your opinion mind about mafiaplayer. Would you feel obliged to vote him anyway, just because you had promised to do so?

Pointless question. I'm not going to change my mind on Mafiaplayer.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Yosarian - the only thing that will change my mind about MP right now is a Cop innocent report that can be confirmed in some way.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I fail to see the problem here. Lowell was my No. 1 suspect, MP was my No. 2 and is now my number 1. I agreed that if people came off the MP wagon to lynch Lowell, I would focus on Mafiaplayer today. That's not scummy. That's called common sense and process of elimination.

[Knight of Cydonia]

That's Mafiaplayer at L-2, AFAIK.
Claim now, in case he decides to spite-hammer?

[Knight of Cydonia]

That's not irony, TCS. I voted MP because I found him scummy D2 but wanted Lowell lynched for his absurd bussing and wagon-hopping D1. You're saying you're voting me "if" MP flips town. So, if he flips scum, and I think he will, then what?

[Knight of Cydonia]

You're shitting me. Seriously?
Even if I had been notified, the sheer improbability of that happening (first time I've seen this in, like, FOREVER) would have probably made me keep quiet.