Cosmos Mafia (Postgame)

[Firebringer]

ur repeating urself by making it sound like i should have taken it more seriously than i should have.
I treated it exactly as a fake vigilante claim. I didn't believe it. I thought it was fake. And I didn't think it was scum fake.
I also thought it was a big distraction.

If me thinking all that makes me scum. Fine.
But to me ur taking it like i should have taken the guilty as either gospel or something i should have immediately purged because i didn't believe it is tier 1 play. Now this just becomes a philisophy of mafia discussion and not worth engaging on.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

All right then who do you think is scum?

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

*sigh* you're both going to make this really difficult because of course you are

[Past Present Future]

Why is it NAI for fire?

Have you read any of his games?

Yeah I've played with him too. Is he actually someone who ignores a mechanical 1v1 in favor of a pet scumread?

A mechanical 1v1? I really can’t recall a comparable situation mech speaking, with him as either alignment.

[Firebringer]

literally no idea.
totally fine with going today but i think im just gonna sheep enchant.
my reads have been very lackluster this game and i don't intend to push them or even attempt. Gonna have town carry me or yall can get rid of me.

Think we in good position to win this without me putting forward effort to solve this.

[Past Present Future]

DDS is trying to point to page 338

Can you just please quote/link the relevant posts for me? I have everything set to descending and couldn’t find it.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Spoiler: For Nancy

Let's try process of elimination.


Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
Magician
Enchant

Past Present Future

Impossible. Sun Attunement.
Cat Scratch Fever
Firebringer
T-Bone

^ Potential Lunars

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow

Impossible. Lunar Blessing.
Magician
Past Present Future
Cat Scratch Fever
Enchant
Firebringer
T-Bone

^ Potentional Solars


P.S. I know that i know i am not any of these teams, i mostly want to know why YOU think i am not.

I really, really like this as a thread exercise. Let's do it.

It can keep us on track with one topic at a time and actually progress us towards a logical general reads list that is difficult to dismantle. When a sizable chunk of players agree a player can be crossed off, we can cross them off the 'main list'? Dunno if we want a strict method of deciding when someone's out of the PoE. (Unless you were just intending to have this as your personal list, which is also cool)

I'll contribute a few reads here that I think should be easy for anyone to cross off the list:

T-Bone is not Solar.

This is due to his interactions with Radical Rat and the Burn mechanic. T-Bone received the Burn message from Porkens that backed up Radical Rat's claim. We KNOW that scum had the ability to send that message to someone unaligned with them. To assume that T-Bone is Solar is to assume that they chose to have a buddy play that role instead, and also intentionally chose not to use Porkens' role to mess with someone unaligned with them. I don't believe that's plausible at all.

Magician is not Solar.

I believe this because of JunkoChan's approach to the Porkens wagon. I'm strongly of the opinion that the last Solar wouldn't have willingly let Porkens die on the day of his elimination. Look at how Radical Rat reacted to the sudden Porkens pop-up if you want a glimpse at the general feelings the Solar scumteam had about that wagon forming. Now look at JunkoChan's play around that wagon:

Though maybe part of the reason that every wagon is stalling is that we (or at least i) don't want to end the day with an empty Porkens slot, since i don't want to sit through another 5 day nightphase waiting for a replacement again

Thoughts on flipping that slot then?

But actually this. You don't want to end the day or wait for 5 night days but You want to vote fire

Like make up your mind dude at least i'm being honest about just wanting to end the day unlike all of You, heck i don't think porkens slot is scum and i said so, but If it ends this stupid day i'm down for that

C.. can we just kill this and maybe still have a game to play?
VOTE: porkens

T-Bone
Professotic
JunkoChan
CSF
Meuh
Enchant

Porkens et al.

PPF
Ydrasse
Firebringer
MathBlade/DDS

Enchant is the lowest one on the list that I'd consider to be a townread.

I'm sorry you are going to lose your buddy, it sucks I know

the slot is in a spot in your read list usually around where scum puts their buddies

what changed your midn since then? who's a better target? why? why haven'¿t you pushed for it?

compromise or stfu

This player wasn't Porkens' and Radical Rat's partner. There's gambits, and then there's throwing away your team's chances for no reason.

I agree that Magician and T-Bone are not Solar. If you remove me from the Solar list because of no NK that first noon, the list of Solar is really just:

PPF
Enchant
Firebringer

...I hadn't considered that, but yeah I agree that that is very clear evidence that you're not Solar. I was going to present different evidence based on what I wrote in 8118 but that's a lot more solid.

[Past Present Future]

*sigh* you're both going to make this really difficult because of course you are

Thanks, that was really super helpful.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

Hey PPF and Firebringer!

I'm not sure if either of you noticed, but three pages ago, on Page 338, there was a discussion about trying to get a thread consensus on PoE for both scumteams. The idea was that if anyone had some evidence that they felt was particularly strong removing someone from contention as either scumteam, they could present it, and if the thread at large agreed, we could agree to 'remove' them from that scumteam's PoE. It felt like a good way of making sure we didn't have to repeat the same points over and over again ad nauseum, so we'd all be on the same page about who we're looking for as potential scum.

T-Bone and CSF engaged with this really well! They seem to agree with me that T-Bone, CSF, and Magician can't be Solar scum. But I'm particularly interested in hearing your two thoughts on the matter.

The posts discussing this are on

Page 338

. I'd appreciate if you read that whole page and processed/understood it. But if you really would prefer, I could reiterate the exact posts and reasons why I think none of CSF/T-Bone/Magician can be Solar scum.

Giving your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. If you can do this, I think we'll be well on our way to narrowing down exactly who Solar scum are. We can then do something similar with the Lunar scumteam and hopefully get some good info there too.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

*sigh* you're both going to make this really difficult because of course you are

Thanks, that was really super helpful.

With the amount of shit you have given me the entire game for daring to do such things as disagree with your thoughts or be unsure of my read on you, I have officially run out of patience for what feels like you intentionally avoiding to try to solve this game.

[T-Bone]

Because Scarf's read on DDS just evaporated? I hadn't considered that possibility. But for them to be scum together, Scarf was bussing his buddy and risked losing a buddy and getting his faction vanilla-ized

Right but that's what I'm saying. Why are you making the argument that the read just evaporated? What's the purpose?

Because my original point from the previous days - "Scarf really believed and pushed DDS scum, and therefore cannot be Lunar" - takes a hit

Well so remember that the Lunar team knew that if DDS was flipped on Day 1, they would be vanillaized.

[T-Bone]

Firebringer didn't really engage with MMR/PPF on day 2 at all

Neither did Ydrasse really, come to think of it

Okay but Ydrasse was aligned with MMR. Firebringer maybe isn't??

I'm just really confused why you're making relations between players we either know or suspect aren't aligned?

He maybe isn't but I'm not entirely sure. It's scummy to not engage with that 1v1, and this particular scumminess is more likely to come from Lunar, because if MMr is Lunar & PPF is town, why wouldn't Solar egg on this 1v1

Well Rat did egg on the 1v1, I'm pretty sure they were on the MMR is scum lying train early. In fact in the VC you quoted, Solar was on both sides of the 1v1, while Lunar was off the wagon entirely. (of the flipped players). Curiously it wasn't Solar really egging on the idea that MMR had a guilty claim. That was originally pointed out by...DDS I think?

[T-Bone]

Daily reminder that PPF's spam posting on the topic of me is a diversion from the fact that they have NO reads and will NOT make reads because that would give town information about who their partners are.

Also PPF is town, source: Dude trust me, just let me use my solar rolecop ability real quick tonight and then make up some fakeclaim tomorrow.

I was rr reading scarf's iso to see if the slot did have any associaives ( last night I was saying to klick that I town read all three slots, which is actually quite unusual, but also that none of them did anything massively out of a good scum range, but I didn't scum read barely any posts - early scarf seemed scumny but really towned it up re the Mmr/PPF thing) and found this. This has kind of been my problem with the Ppf slot all along: I don't know where they stand.

They've been vaguely softing a scum read in us for like....three phases now, without any follow through? They don't engage with players like drapion about it, it's just kind of....there (I feel it's because they know that I'm scum reading them)

Klick has been saying that they can't see the scum motivation for a lot of their posting, but I struggle to see how their posting moves the game forward.

It's also a Poe thing: it's probably not scarf, if it's t bone or cafe they are playing really, really well, enchant has done some town indicative things....

(Also, scarfs pressure on MMR just means they are not aligned. The claim didn't need a bus in the way that scarf did.)

B.

MMR, you are able to check someone tonight, right?

Each night, we target a player to see if they're VT or not. If they're not Town or our action doesn't go through, we get no result.
-Rubella

I can check somebody tonight. I'll probably go with a TR.
-Rubella

Each night, we target a player to see if they're VT or not. If they're not Town or our action doesn't go through, we get no result.
-Rubella

I can check somebody tonight. I'll probably go with a TR.
-Rubella

I meant SR.
It was a slip of the tongue.
-Rubella

That's not why I made shifty eyes.

So this is where I reveal my shifty eyes: MMR, you said you are able to check someone tonight. When you roleclaimed you can check one person each night.

The next phase is not night. It's noon.

To be clear, this exchange happens *while Scarf has his vote on PPF*.

I find Scarf's reasoning here rather tight in hindsight and I don't see why Scarf actively undermines MMR's claim while at the same time not reaching for credit by voting for him, if Scarf is MMR's scumbuddy.

PEdit: I've not read the above post but it's probably good

I too am wondering about this. As I feel like I took the initiative (and voting credit) on MMR early on.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

I’m also frustrated with you because I strongly believe Fire can’t be lunar and you pretty much just dismissed that. So if you’re go to ignore what I consider to be an extremely valid take,

We discussed this specific read, at length, for a considerable amount of time.

I am done discussing this specific read for now. I would like to solve the game at large.

We can come back to the Firebringer-Lunar read.

But I would like to discuss other things that will solve more of the game now.

[T-Bone]

It would be extremely helpful to me if you’d link 388 rather than just reference the number. I’m also frustrated with you because I strongly believe Fire can’t be lunar and you pretty much just dismissed that. So if you’re go to ignore what I consider to be an extremely valid take, then I don’t understand why you even care what my opinion is.

So I agree with you that if Fire is scum it is likely not Lunar.

I am also curious about whether you agree or disagree on the following. I think that would help.

- CSF not being Solar
- T-Bone not being Solar
- Magician not being Solar

[T-Bone]

on Page 338

As an aside, some people change their forum scroll settings so what is Page 338 to you may not be to them, and we could have avoided a lot of this nonsense if you just linked the first post you wanted discussed.

[Past Present Future]

Hey PPF and Firebringer!

I'm not sure if either of you noticed, but three pages ago, on Page 338, there was a discussion about trying to get a thread consensus on PoE for both scumteams. The idea was that if anyone had some evidence that they felt was particularly strong removing someone from contention as either scumteam, they could present it, and if the thread at large agreed, we could agree to 'remove' them from that scumteam's PoE. It felt like a good way of making sure we didn't have to repeat the same points over and over again ad nauseum, so we'd all be on the same page about who we're looking for as potential scum.

T-Bone and CSF engaged with this really well! They seem to agree with me that T-Bone, CSF, and Magician can't be Solar scum. But I'm particularly interested in hearing your two thoughts on the matter.

The posts discussing this are on

Page 338

. I'd appreciate if you read that whole page and processed/understood it. But if you really would prefer, I could reiterate the exact posts and reasons why I think none of CSF/T-Bone/Magician can be Solar scum.

Giving your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. If you can do this, I think we'll be well on our way to narrowing down exactly who Solar scum are. We can then do something similar with the Lunar scumteam and hopefully get some good info there too.

HEY I was pretty sure I answered you yesterday and was trying to find that post. I think it makes sense yes but why aren’t you also making arguments about who you think can’t be Lunar, when I’ve asked you about that like a gazillion times already?

[T-Bone]

*what is the top of page 338 may not be the same

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

on Page 338

As an aside, some people change their forum scroll settings so what is Page 338 to you may not be to them, and we could have avoided a lot of this nonsense if you just linked the first post you wanted discussed.

This is fair and I hadn't considered it. What CSF linked is accurate to what I meant, thanks CSF.

I'm frustrated that it was ignored in the first place because it was a sizable chunk of the conversation yesterday.

[Past Present Future]

*sigh* you're both going to make this really difficult because of course you are

Thanks, that was really super helpful.

With the amount of shit you have given me the entire game for daring to do such things as disagree with your thoughts or be unsure of my read on you, I have officially run out of patience for what feels like you intentionally avoiding to try to solve this game.

Well, good for you then, I think I’ll just stick to dealing with T-Bone and CSF then. I’m also fine dealing with Klick.

[Past Present Future]

Because Scarf's read on DDS just evaporated? I hadn't considered that possibility. But for them to be scum together, Scarf was bussing his buddy and risked losing a buddy and getting his faction vanilla-ized

Right but that's what I'm saying. Why are you making the argument that the read just evaporated? What's the purpose?

Because my original point from the previous days - "Scarf really believed and pushed DDS scum, and therefore cannot be Lunar" - takes a hit

Well so remember that the Lunar team knew that if DDS was flipped on Day 1, they would be vanillaized.

Yeah but Dangle was never in serious danger, same with Math. Not on d1 anyway.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

HEY I was pretty sure I answered you yesterday and was trying to find that post. I think it makes sense yes but why aren’t you also making arguments about who you think can’t be Lunar, when I’ve asked you about that like a gazillion times already?

Okay. So to be very, explicitly clear: you think CSF, T-Bone, and Magician do not make sense as Solar, based on what was discussed there? It's important to me that this is explicit because it shows clearly in the thread that you've put thought towards the subject, and it makes it a lot harder for scum to backpedal on it later on. That's why I'm harping on about it so much.

I have started with the reads that seem very simple and intuitive to me in a way that I'd expect most of the thread to agree with. It just so happens that the simple reads seem to be the Solar reads.

But also, I have already argued that CSF can't be Lunar. I'm interested in talking Lunar as well. But one step at a time.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Nancy, I think the reason people aren't doing the same PoE for Lunar is because there isn't much conclusive evidence to cross people off as Not Lunar entirely. Ydrasse barely has any interactions, and MMR got yeeted kind of early.

I think the points made for Scarf not being Lunar are pretty strong though, including them not seeking credit for the MMR lim

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

*sigh* you're both going to make this really difficult because of course you are

Thanks, that was really super helpful.

With the amount of shit you have given me the entire game for daring to do such things as disagree with your thoughts or be unsure of my read on you, I have officially run out of patience for what feels like you intentionally avoiding to try to solve this game.

Well, good for you then, I think I’ll just stick to dealing with T-Bone and CSF then. I’m also fine dealing with Klick.

This was Klick.

I want to solve this game. Demonstrate that you do as well.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

But also, I have already argued that CSF can't be Lunar.

And Scarf!