House of the Dragon - Game Over!


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Post Post #375 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:11 am

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

In post 370, Thestatusquo wrote:
In post 366, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Shea improving with a little rage as fuel is town.
I literally said at the beginning of the game I was going to be low effort until today. Honestly it makes me kind of suspicious of you that you wouldn't respect my game enough to know that I'm not someone who is going to lurk out as scum. Seems like kind of a cheat attack from you that you should know better than. Which is why I was annoyed.
I respect your game enough that unless I see you as town I'm not going to mark you as town? I don't really care if you say you will be low content until a point (not that I saw that either) I just saw you sitting in a position I couldn't trust and wanted to poke you.

Sorry if you think that lacks respect, it doesnt. I just am focused on gathering people I townread for now.
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Post Post #376 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:11 am

Post by Lukewarm »

In post 282, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:I like Rhae, UNOwen, Luke and Junko for town, currently.
I feel odd making your short list here, given the fact that I have not been doing much.
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Post Post #377 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:13 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

In post 100, GuiltyLion wrote:
In post 36, Datisi wrote:
In post 28, GuiltyLion wrote:VOTE: Dannflor

LLD is not a bad choice but I think Dannflor is easier to read
can i get your thought process behind this post and vote?
I want a King I would trust to be a skilled player if town

LLD is definitely skilled but my experience/impression of her is that she's the type of player who tunnels her scumreads and puts a ton of pressure on them to box them out of a game, and I think that's an easier playstyle to replicate as scum. If she does similar here and vigs a townie, it'd be hard for me to discern whether town!LLD was simply wrong or whether she's mafia

whereas town!Dann is a flexible player, he's very transparent about his thought processes and usually displays a ton of authenticity/paranoia as his reads change that I think is much harder to convincingly emulate as scum.

so I feel I would have an easier time sussing him out if he's mafia than LLD. frankly I also wanted to start an alternative wagon rather than just jump on the LLD train

in other news, I don't like it gives me a LAMISTy vibe and this:
In post 41, Datisi wrote:i do a lot of stressed tinfoil posting when i'm town in an important position.
and i don't think i'm capable of replicating that stressed tinfoil posting as scum.
kinda feels like bullshit to me? Give yourself credit you are a capable scum player and I don't see why you'd genuinely expect us to believe you couldn't handle being a scum King
this is an incredibly good post and I think demonstrates a level of thinking about the king position that, while I think mafia COULD fake, they probably wouldn't think to do so right at the beginning. I would be incredibly impressed if this post came from scum GL.

It mirrors exactly my thoughts about why I think LLD would be a bad king. She's obviously incredibly good at mafia, and incredibly good as both alignments, so while I trust her reads if she's town, I know from first hand experience that she could probably dayvig an innocent child in public in a lot of games and still live another 3 game days. I want a king who I can more easily hold accountable if they do anti town shit.
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Post Post #378 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:14 am

Post by Lukewarm »

In post 286, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:skipping over asking me the intermediary step of "why do you think X is town?"
Funny running into this. I typed out "so why are you town reading me?" in my last post, but then remembered that you in general have a stance of being willing to explain scum reads but being adverse to explaining town reads, and kind of thought it was a futile question for me to ask.
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Post Post #379 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:19 am

Post by Lukewarm »

The series of LLD posts I have read have actually had the effect of me reconsidering giving Andante the kingship.

I had originally written her off because of her impulsiveness, but LLD's points have swayed me somewhat that landing on town is actually more important then that person being the best possible king, and Andante is kind of the only person I am very confident is town atm.
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Post Post #380 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:19 am

Post by Andante »

In post 364, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
In post 356, Andante wrote:
In post 352, Andresvmb wrote:I think Dann is Town btw, and I would vote for them as King. Given some of the intense opposition being expressed here by LLD in particular, I suspect this won’t happen. But I feel compelled to share my view.
Yeah I'm probably leaning Dann right now, LLD feels like she's scum where scum chat went "uhhh andante is universal TR" and LLD came into the thread like "not on my watch!" and uhhh yeah that's kinda my only take away from all the posts between now and when I was last here, also leaning andres town
Can I have some of what you are smoking? The mix of delusion and self agrandizing might be just what I need for my anxiety.
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Post Post #381 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:19 am

Post by Datisi »

i am very likely going to just ignore andante's paranoid babble in this phase unless someone else specifically wants my answer to something, ok cool next
In post 246, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 228, Datisi wrote:"townread him if he does not do something that i know scum-him would do"
What did I not do that you were expecting if I was scum?
you went from not knowing we're voting for king to knowing we're voting for king (and i'm assuming you weren't lying about it, because otherwise the early vote for me doesn't make sense even if you're scum)

now, your reaction to learning that you were wrong about the mech was like, nonexistent. i've noticed that scum-you has like these... overblown reactions to learning mechanics. like in the first mini we played together, where you did the "does the scum have daytalk???" thing; but much more notably in this post in ktane... i feel like scum-you would've on instinct fallen back into having similar reactions to mech stuff, and you just *didn't* here, so
In post 247, Andresvmb wrote:If you want my quick thoughts - I am not coming in assuming GuiltyLion and Datisi choreographed a fake argument to Town Read each other as Partners, though this assumes Datisi knew I was in the game. Btw, Datisi has used such a move as Scum in the past (fake an argument with a Partner, end up TR each other, and moved on swiftly). Datisi may not remember this, but Iconeum and him faked a fight in the early part of a game they were both Scum in, just so that they could end up TR’ing each other and wouldn’t have to fake paranoia about each other later in the game. But Ico and Datisi I had seen be very paranoid of each other (particularly Datisi of Ico) as Town, so I could understand why that play made sense.

I’m assuming such an interaction may not make sense between GL and Datisi, and I actually don’t think GL would have gone for it. They come across as rational and rather controlled. So faking an argument is a difficult ask. For what it’s worth, I thought GL came out looking much Townier after that exchange, and I’m not currently TR’ing Datisi.
(1) i knew you were in the game because i check the playerlists of games i'm in in case anyone i have blacklisted tries to join
(2) of course i remember it... that fight was not fake. i thought he was town; he was a traitor. we never planned to do that, i did that so town-ico wouldn't murder me, but then he turned out to be my traitor. so i immediately stopped fighting him because he was on a sorta bad streak as scum and i didn't wanna make him die lole

why do you find guiltylion to be townie in that exchange?
In post 276, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:So, in general... the math of the game is hung on a knife's edge and people should be far more concerned with finding and backing their most townie candidate, even if they think that player would be a "bad king", so long as they are town and they're willing to listen and allow the game to progress... we're in a better spot than the alternative which is one bad vote away from death.
this is wrong? like, the king can't execute two days in a row, right? even if they scummed it up and outed themselves as scum by exe'ing an obvious town, we just yeet them the next day?

jesus fuck do i hate mechanical arguments

in the andres/ladyld fight on page 13, i like andres much better than ladyld. or like, the way he's arguing feels like he actually believes what he's saying, and also the read on baltar seems perfectly fine to me. the whole argument almost gives a vibe of lld being annoyed that baltar is getting townread for something she percieves he shouldn't be townread for

finished w page 13, posting this now because i see there's 10 billion pedits yaaay
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Post Post #382 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:20 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

My town reads so far:

GuiltyLion
Junko
Andante

My "better than null"
Lukewarm

my ehhhhh reads:
Datisi
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Post Post #383 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:21 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

I kind of want to vote guiltylion for king but I am actually kind of concerned he low key has a lot of the same issues as LLD does for that position.
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Post Post #384 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:21 am

Post by Datisi »

shea, have you continued our conversation from yesterday? i didn't see it in the pedits, but it's possible i missed it

if i didn't, please do so
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
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Post Post #385 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:22 am

Post by Lukewarm »

In post 378, Lukewarm wrote:
In post 286, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:skipping over asking me the intermediary step of "why do you think X is town?"
Funny running into this. I typed out "so why are you town reading me?" in my last post, but then remembered that you in general have a stance of being willing to explain scum reads but being adverse to explaining town reads, and kind of thought it was a futile question for me to ask.
Ah, it happened anyways lmao
In post 312, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:I'll note you still haven't bothered to read UNOwen yourself, interestingly.

Tell you what, here's the deal.

You go back and read those two players, and tell me what your reads on them are and why, and I'll explain to you why I have a townread on them.

Unless you think I pulled names out of a hat, in which case... feel free to think that?

Like you either want my reasonings to be convinced, or to use against me. If it's the later, I don't care to waste my breath, sorry. You can just push me on not answering your questions instead.

If it's the former... go read them and develop your opinions and then we'll see.
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Post Post #386 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:22 am

Post by Dannflor »

GL is easier to leash imo
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Post Post #387 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:23 am

Post by Andante »

In post 379, Lukewarm wrote:The series of LLD posts I have read have actually had the effect of me reconsidering giving Andante the kingship.

I had originally written her off because of her impulsiveness, but LLD's points have swayed me somewhat that landing on town is actually more important then that person being the best possible king, and Andante is kind of the only person I am very confident is town atm.
If I'm king I promise to not be impulsive :) and logically think through stuff!! TSQ is making my think back to my junko read for the moment.. ahhhhhh ok yolo this can only hurt me, but uhhh here's kinda where my reads are

Charloux maf LLD maf GL maf UNO maf VP sus Datisi maybe sus
Andres town Junko town TSQ town
359- uno might be town
If uno is town LLD is certainly maf

but do note, they are no where near final reads level, I haven't fact checked some of my suspicions, but it's roughly what I'm looking at, idk!! lunch break over. byeee
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Post Post #388 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:23 am

Post by Andante »

In post 379, Lukewarm wrote:The series of LLD posts I have read have actually had the effect of me reconsidering giving Andante the kingship.

I had originally written her off because of her impulsiveness, but LLD's points have swayed me somewhat that landing on town is actually more important then that person being the best possible king, and Andante is kind of the only person I am very confident is town atm.
If I'm king I promise to not be impulsive :) and logically think through stuff!! TSQ is making my think back to my junko read for the moment.. ahhhhhh ok yolo this can only hurt me, but uhhh here's kinda where my reads are

Charloux maf LLD maf GL maf UNO maf VP sus Datisi maybe sus
Andres town Junko town TSQ town
359- uno might be town
If uno is town LLD is certainly maf

but do note, they are no where near final reads level, I haven't fact checked some of my suspicions, but it's roughly what I'm looking at, idk!! lunch break over. byeee
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Post Post #389 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:26 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

In post 204, Dannflor wrote:
In post 74, Andante wrote:
In post 70, Dannflor wrote:Posts and seem like scum posts
what about them seem scummy? I'd love some reasoning there!
In post 118, Andante wrote:
In post 112, Dannflor wrote:Adante what was your motivation for writing 59
I thought Junko was mafia so I gave yall my thoughts. Just dumped them here. Hello, nice to meet you, I'm Andante!
Nice to meet you, Adante! Can I ask have we played together before and I didn't realize? Why did you say I'm not super easy to read but a strong player?

I think and are scummy because I don't think the point behind them is to just share your Junko read. There is a performative / "showing off" tone to both of these posts that comes from scum a lot more often than not.

Phrases like "Everything about these posts," "super obvious," "And it all leads to this..." and "and now there's 4 to go," feel like you are putting on a show. There's a lot of like... feigned confidence here that I don't usually see townie's put into their page 3 reads. It reads like scum projecting confidence in order to see more town. feels like you are giving a presentation where the thesis is that "look I am having an in depth thought process on JunkoChan" not a townie who actually suspects JunkoChan. And there's like no attempt to reach out to or sort Junko. Just very definitive declarative statements with confidence that I don't think you'd actually feel here as town.

is just LAMIST. Like literally, "oh look at me I'm so town I read everything because I'm uninformed." It has this anxious look at me I'm so town energy that I feel like almost all your posts contain in some way.

These posts are pretty much exactly how I'd expect scum to be playing this game early knowing that the most important thing for them is to get town read and get into a position of literal power
ok this is a pretty decent answer. I kind of want to mediate a bit because I like to think I know andante pretty well outside of mafia games and I think what you're picking up is just her general speech patterns which are just...kind of like this...even in just talking on discord?
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Post Post #390 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:27 am

Post by Lukewarm »

In post 316, Dannflor wrote:this is frustrating

I'm not asking you to "use them against you"

I am asking you because I think it'll probably be a more effective method of sorting you than arguing with you about the same point over and over again
Just for perspective "I don't explain my town reads because it helps the scum team" is a standard town!LLD thought, that I have seen from her in more then one game.

I was more shocked seeing her ask you why you didn't ask her, then I am seeing her refuse to answer.

I do agree that that it can be frustrating to deal with.
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Post Post #391 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:28 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

In post 384, Datisi wrote:shea, have you continued our conversation from yesterday? i didn't see it in the pedits, but it's possible i missed it

if i didn't, please do so
I will after I get through the thread. But I thought we had already reached a pretty reasonable stopping point where you told me that I was misunderstanding what you were saying and I was just going to drop it for now. Is there something in particular you want to touch on?
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Post Post #392 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:29 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

In post 388, Andante wrote:
In post 379, Lukewarm wrote:The series of LLD posts I have read have actually had the effect of me reconsidering giving Andante the kingship.

I had originally written her off because of her impulsiveness, but LLD's points have swayed me somewhat that landing on town is actually more important then that person being the best possible king, and Andante is kind of the only person I am very confident is town atm.
If I'm king I promise to not be impulsive :) and logically think through stuff!! TSQ is making my think back to my junko read for the moment.. ahhhhhh ok yolo this can only hurt me, but uhhh here's kinda where my reads are

Charloux maf LLD maf GL maf UNO maf VP sus Datisi maybe sus
Andres town Junko town TSQ town
359- uno might be town
If uno is town LLD is certainly maf

but do note, they are no where near final reads level, I haven't fact checked some of my suspicions, but it's roughly what I'm looking at, idk!! lunch break over. byeee
Can you tell me why you think GL is mafia?
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Post Post #393 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:30 am

Post by Datisi »

In post 391, Thestatusquo wrote:
In post 384, Datisi wrote:shea, have you continued our conversation from yesterday? i didn't see it in the pedits, but it's possible i missed it

if i didn't, please do so
I will after I get through the thread. But I thought we had already reached a pretty reasonable stopping point where you told me that I was misunderstanding what you were saying and I was just going to drop it for now. Is there something in particular you want to touch on?
i don't remember from memory, i just know that i left at something that i wanted you to acknowledge/respond. seeing you shove me under "ehh" reminded me of that, let me go look

yeah ok i wanted an acknowledgement of

and i also want you to talk why exactly am i in the pile i am

(there's a point to this i swear)
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
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Post Post #394 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:31 am

Post by Lukewarm »

In post 328, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
In post 325, JunkoChan wrote:
In post 319, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Do you think small council positions are reselected by each new king, or mostly retained until death?
wait... *re-reading * I read that as the council is permanent..(?)

but it lead me to another question, so the council members are the only ones that can be king right? so there's a limited amount of times a new king can be selected right?

also

it's not clear if it's possible to have more than 1 heir (in the case that the first one dies)
I assume that when a Prince ascends, they name a new prince, or there is a line of succession for small council and they appoint a new 7th member.

That much I think is... reasonable? But I think I agree that small council positions are probably for life.

So I think you need to be a lot more worried about being temp pocketed than you normally should be, because you're not really goign to be given a good chance to re-evaluate I suspect. I think once we make our chocies, it'll be in the hands of the king and small council, not us.
Your math from earlier stops if the throne goes King -> Prince -> We no longer have a king for the game, which I think is also a perfectly valid reading of the Prince Role. (all small council positions are named by the first king, including the prince)

Someone should ask Pooky how the succession works lol
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Post Post #395 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:31 am

Post by Datisi »

In post 366, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Shea improving with a little rage as fuel is town.
can you explain what this means? or like, why is shea town to you?

yes, i did just read that you often refuse to explain townreads, but i am still asking
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
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Post Post #396 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:33 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

In post 227, Datisi wrote:
In post 200, VP Baltar wrote:VOTE: dwlee
why dwlee? i was starting to feel they're kinda scummy
I had the same question.

It's been a hot minute since I've played with dwlee but I remember much more activity than this from their town game.
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Post Post #397 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:35 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

In post 393, Datisi wrote:
In post 391, Thestatusquo wrote:
In post 384, Datisi wrote:shea, have you continued our conversation from yesterday? i didn't see it in the pedits, but it's possible i missed it

if i didn't, please do so
I will after I get through the thread. But I thought we had already reached a pretty reasonable stopping point where you told me that I was misunderstanding what you were saying and I was just going to drop it for now. Is there something in particular you want to touch on?
i don't remember from memory, i just know that i left at something that i wanted you to acknowledge/respond. seeing you shove me under "ehh" reminded me of that, let me go look

yeah ok i wanted an acknowledgement of

and i also want you to talk why exactly am i in the pile i am

(there's a point to this i swear)
You said that you were town binning her and then you made a post that she always scum reads you and that made you feel better about her? I'm going from memory here. I connected those two things in my head, I recall you saying you disagreed with that connection and I decided it wasn't worth digging further into.

Because I find all your posts to be vaguely on edge in a way I don't think I've noticed in your town games before. Its incredibly minor which is why you're in the "ehhhhhh" pile, because "ehhhhhhhh" is how I feel every time I read one of them.

With the exception of the one I just posted.
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Post Post #398 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:37 am

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

In post 372, Thestatusquo wrote:If andante and lld are passing some good shit please share.
if but i could pass through the screen
Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.

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Post Post #399 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:38 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

In post 228, Datisi wrote:ok so uhhh

andante town, dannflor firebringer and vp baltar feel town

VOTE: vp baltar anyone?

my usual way of reading vp baltar is "townread him if he does something that i don't think scum-him would do", HOWEVER i have realized that i can use a "townread him if he does not do something that i know scum-him would do" here

i'm realizing how much i actually rely on being able to push stuff with my votes and how it's throwing me off, which is annoying but oh well
Similarly can you explain a VP town position? I've had a few pings in the opposite direction personally.

This whole post feels very incongruous to me. Like, I understand using a heuristic of "ok I will assume x is town until shown otherwise for the purposes of scum hunting" but I have a hard time seeing why town!you would extend such logic to voting to put that person in the most powerful position in the game.
tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner

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