House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[JunkoChan]

Do you think small council positions are reselected by each new king, or mostly retained until death?

wait... *re-reading 190* I read that as the council is permanent..(?)

but it lead me to another question, so the council members are the only ones that can be king right? so there's a limited amount of times a new king can be selected right?

also

it's not clear if it's possible to have more than 1 heir (in the case that the first one dies)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I’ll keep going though with explaining my reads - I think Andante is the easiest player to perceive as Town, though I wouldn’t sleep on them potentially faking this natural nervousness they have. I just can’t bring myself to think the slot is Scum.

How do I ask this....

If you were scum and the game starts with an election phase, how would you play it?

[Andresvmb]

I’m not… giving VPB a pass? What’s going on here? I admitted it wasn’t strong, and I didn’t dislike VPB’s questions or thought they were full of shit. I felt okay with our interaction and certainly look forward to more content from VPB.

VPB is one of those players that you have to be careful because they can be very stubborn about a position or take and it could be coming from either alignment. So what I’m looking forward to doing in this game is mind melding with them. When I start noticing that they’re arguing for something that I strongly perceive as anti-Town, then I’ll look to bury them but certainly you can’t argue they’re like obviously Scum here or something.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Do you think small council positions are reselected by each new king, or mostly retained until death?

wait... *re-reading 190* I read that as the council is permanent..(?)

but it lead me to another question, so the council members are the only ones that can be king right? so there's a limited amount of times a new king can be selected right?

also

it's not clear if it's possible to have more than 1 heir (in the case that the first one dies)

I assume that when a Prince ascends, they name a new prince, or there is a line of succession for small council and they appoint a new 7th member.

That much I think is... reasonable? But I think I agree that small council positions are probably for life.

So I think you need to be a lot more worried about being temp pocketed than you normally should be, because you're not really goign to be given a good chance to re-evaluate I suspect. I think once we make our chocies, it'll be in the hands of the king and small council, not us.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I’m not… giving VPB a pass? What’s going on here? I admitted it wasn’t strong, and I didn’t dislike VPB’s questions or thought they were full of shit. I felt okay with our interaction and certainly look forward to more content from VPB.

VPB is one of those players that you have to be careful because they can be very stubborn about a position or take and it could be coming from either alignment. So what I’m looking forward to doing in this game is mind melding with them. When I start noticing that they’re arguing for something that I strongly perceive as anti-Town, then I’ll look to bury them but certainly you can’t argue they’re like obviously Scum here or something.

I'm not arguing they're obviously scum.

You put them on a list of players you would include in Small Council, at the top of the "less, but trusted" section.

And your take on them as of so far is "they're on the sidelines" which was my take too, but my take on that progresses into

"why is a competent player on the sidelines asking questions about game mechanics instead of sorting players?"

Like, I don't trust Baltar rn. If he shows different behaviour, I'll adjust my read but he certainly doesn't belong on a small council with what little he's done given he is sitting exactly where I expect scum!baltar to sit?

I don't scum read them. But I don't town read them and that's enough to exclude them, for me, at this point. And I'm wondering why you townread a competent player who is known for being stubborn and having opinions who is currently sidelining?

[JunkoChan]

@pooky is the council permanent or the members can change?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Baltar sits in the same pool as Titus for me right now under "players who really I should have heard way more from right now but haven't yet at all" only Titus has done NOTHING which is more explainable by being possibly busy or changed in gameplay style where as Baltar....

Baltar is active, and in this position.

[Andresvmb]

I don’t think you’re engaging with my views in good faith if I’m being honest. I don’t have the biggest chip on my shoulder, but you’re constantly assuming things that are wrong.

Our interaction about the King / Queen is hopefully clear enough for others to follow, and I did think you were trying to push me aside by casting me as dense when I wasn’t doing what you were fundamentally arguing (that I was giving sufficient importance to the vote for King and that a strategy built around leasing the King is a losing strategy). And now you’re making it sound like I have completely made up my mind about an experienced, solid player, when I shouldn’t be giving them the benefit of the doubt. But that’s in a vacuum. You’re clearly expressing a SR there I believe and shading me for my view, but why not just say it like that? Why not just state that you disagree with my take, because in your experience, a cautious, undecided VPB leans Scum. Which, great! That’s a take. But why assume I must have no knowledge of their play? From my perspective, you come across as someone that’s not arguing me because you care about my points, or even remotely believe I could ever sway you any which way. You’re arguing with the hope that you can just obliterate any view I express while calling it weird / dense, and I can’t say I appreciate it.

[Andresvmb]

^(wasn’t giving)*

[Andresvmb]

I’m not… giving VPB a pass? What’s going on here? I admitted it wasn’t strong, and I didn’t dislike VPB’s questions or thought they were full of shit. I felt okay with our interaction and certainly look forward to more content from VPB.

VPB is one of those players that you have to be careful because they can be very stubborn about a position or take and it could be coming from either alignment. So what I’m looking forward to doing in this game is mind melding with them. When I start noticing that they’re arguing for something that I strongly perceive as anti-Town, then I’ll look to bury them but certainly you can’t argue they’re like obviously Scum here or something.

I'm not arguing they're obviously scum.

You put them on a list of players you would include in Small Council, at the top of the "less, but trusted" section.

And your take on them as of so far is "they're on the sidelines" which was my take too, but my take on that progresses into

"why is a competent player on the sidelines asking questions about game mechanics instead of sorting players?"

Like, I don't trust Baltar rn. If he shows different behaviour, I'll adjust my read but he certainly doesn't belong on a small council with what little he's done given he is sitting exactly where I expect scum!baltar to sit?

I don't scum read them. But I don't town read them and that's enough to exclude them, for me, at this point. And I'm wondering why you townread a competent player who is known for being stubborn and having opinions who is currently sidelining?

And btw, if you’re giving this really wish washy view (I don’t know whether they’re Town or Scum) I’m amazed you’re this offended about me arguing that I have them as Slight Town. Yeah they’re experienced. But I wouldn’t actually agree that they’re difficult to read when Scum. I mean they had me fooled for half of a game as Scum, and then I teased them out. Otherwise, I think I have been able to read them relatively well. I don’t know if VPB would agree or disagree.

[JunkoChan]

Pooky answered that we don't have this information yet so.. I can't work with those assumptions

I can believe that pooky has a balanced setup and that we won't lose right away if we misspick the king

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It's not wishywashy, oh my fucking god.

We're deciding on the power structure of the game, so I don't need to decide right this fucking second how scummy someone is, and by virtue of that I'm going to shove a lot of townies who are not giving me townie vibes into the no pile.

Right now all that matters is I find town. I'll decide and sort the bad from the worse after.

Right now, VPBaltar is not town enough for a town block in my opinion, and I'm questioning why in yours he is when you yourself ADMIT he is sitting on the sidelines, a view you share with me!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Pooky answered that we don't have this information yet so.. I can't work with those assumptions

I can believe that pooky has a balanced setup and that we won't lose right away if we misspick the king

Again, if a scum stacks their own small council and convinces us, even for 1 day, it's fine and we vote someone wrongly, if the powers don't change hands... we lose.

So there would need to be a... large escape hatch to avoid this.

[Andresvmb]

I’ll keep going though with explaining my reads - I think Andante is the easiest player to perceive as Town, though I wouldn’t sleep on them potentially faking this natural nervousness they have. I just can’t bring myself to think the slot is Scum.

How do I ask this....

If you were scum and the game starts with an election phase, how would you play it?

I’m not sure what exactly you hope to get with this question, but it seems honestly rather irrelevant. If you’re asking me what I would do as Scum in this game with the choice we have to make now, I would be doing my best to come across as Towny, form some sort of alliance with vocal Town so they can push my nomination forward (I think it’s more difficult to trust anyone that says that they should be the choice), and hope I get picked. I would also make positive cases for my Partners most strongly, as that is a great outcome anyway. I would certainly argue strongly against any choice being put forth of competent Town. Chaotic Town is like the third best outcome. And by far a bad outcome for Scum is having a solid Town player that’s perceived as Town nominated. So I would actually go out of my way to try and make sure that didn’t happen.

[JunkoChan]

Pooky answered that we don't have this information yet so.. I can't work with those assumptions

I can believe that pooky has a balanced setup and that we won't lose right away if we misspick the king

Again, if a scum stacks their own small council and convinces us, even for 1 day, it's fine and we vote someone wrongly, if the powers don't change hands... we lose.

So there would need to be a... large escape hatch to avoid this.

it all comes down to doing an educated guess and praying you are right

so nothing changes

I view this game as a coalition with extra steps

[Andresvmb]

It's not wishywashy, oh my fucking god.

We're deciding on the power structure of the game, so I don't need to decide right this fucking second how scummy someone is, and by virtue of that I'm going to shove a lot of townies who are not giving me townie vibes into the no pile.

Right now all that matters is I find town. I'll decide and sort the bad from the worse after.

Right now, VPBaltar is not town enough for a town block in my opinion, and I'm questioning why in yours he is when you yourself ADMIT he is sitting on the sidelines, a view you share with me!

I agree that by far the most important thing right now is to pick Town for King, and so Scum hunting directly is not the right approach.

Look here’s what I don’t understand. I have a vote down for GuiltyLion to be King. So that’s my strongest read of the game. You’re getting way hung up on a secondary read I expressed that at this stage, has no immediate impact. Why don’t we do this - do you think GL is Scum?

[UNOwen]

Speaking of

Vote: UNOwen

This is my most confident pick for town at the moment, though I suspect they would struggle to be king.

UNVOTE: Andante
VOTE: UNOwen

I have my full support. I would be a most judicious king.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It's not wishywashy, oh my fucking god.

We're deciding on the power structure of the game, so I don't need to decide right this fucking second how scummy someone is, and by virtue of that I'm going to shove a lot of townies who are not giving me townie vibes into the no pile.

Right now all that matters is I find town. I'll decide and sort the bad from the worse after.

Right now, VPBaltar is not town enough for a town block in my opinion, and I'm questioning why in yours he is when you yourself ADMIT he is sitting on the sidelines, a view you share with me!

I agree that by far the most important thing right now is to pick Town for King, and so Scum hunting directly is not the right approach.

Look here’s what I don’t understand. I have a vote down for GuiltyLion to be King. So that’s my strongest read of the game. You’re getting way hung up on a secondary read I expressed that at this stage, has no immediate impact. Why don’t we do this - do you think GL is Scum?

I don't trust GL, no.

[Charloux]

VOTE: Lambda
I only skimmed through the pages so i have nothing concrete, going by my intuition here
I think i can contribute more starting tomorrow but commenting on what each person does as what alignment is beyond my abilities

[Andresvmb]

It's not wishywashy, oh my fucking god.

We're deciding on the power structure of the game, so I don't need to decide right this fucking second how scummy someone is, and by virtue of that I'm going to shove a lot of townies who are not giving me townie vibes into the no pile.

Right now all that matters is I find town. I'll decide and sort the bad from the worse after.

Right now, VPBaltar is not town enough for a town block in my opinion, and I'm questioning why in yours he is when you yourself ADMIT he is sitting on the sidelines, a view you share with me!

I agree that by far the most important thing right now is to pick Town for King, and so Scum hunting directly is not the right approach.

Look here’s what I don’t understand. I have a vote down for GuiltyLion to be King. So that’s my strongest read of the game. You’re getting way hung up on a secondary read I expressed that at this stage, has no immediate impact. Why don’t we do this - do you think GL is Scum?

I don't trust GL, no.

I have no idea how you have UNOwen as your top TR. None. I read the ISO, and I don’t know why they would be your top choice for King / Queen here.

[Andresvmb]

It's not wishywashy, oh my fucking god.

We're deciding on the power structure of the game, so I don't need to decide right this fucking second how scummy someone is, and by virtue of that I'm going to shove a lot of townies who are not giving me townie vibes into the no pile.

Right now all that matters is I find town. I'll decide and sort the bad from the worse after.

Right now, VPBaltar is not town enough for a town block in my opinion, and I'm questioning why in yours he is when you yourself ADMIT he is sitting on the sidelines, a view you share with me!

I agree that by far the most important thing right now is to pick Town for King, and so Scum hunting directly is not the right approach.

Look here’s what I don’t understand. I have a vote down for GuiltyLion to be King. So that’s my strongest read of the game. You’re getting way hung up on a secondary read I expressed that at this stage, has no immediate impact. Why don’t we do this - do you think GL is Scum?

I don't trust GL, no.

Okay, why?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Flavor

The Hand of the King is the chief advisor to the Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and is the executor of the king's command in the Seven Kingdoms.

Duties of the Hand include commanding the king's armies, drafting laws, dispensing justice, and generally managing the day-to-day running of the kingdom. The Hand may act on the king's behalf when he is indisposed, and sit the Iron Throne while doing so. The Hand also sits on the small council and will run the council if the king is not present.

The office typically makes the Hand the second-most powerful man in the kingdom next to the king, though some Hands have had the reputation of ruling their kings.

It is considered by some to be a difficult and unglamorous job of great responsibility. A popular saying goes, "What the king dreams, the Hand builds," but the lowborn say, "The king eats, and the Hand takes the shit." Many able men have failed in the office throughout history.

Hand of the King

The Hand of the King is Chosen by the King to execute his Will.

They hold the following abilities:

Investigate Loyalty

Once per night you may investigate a player to determine their alignment.

This ability costs [Redacted] Gold Pieces to activate each time.

Member of the Small Council

Has access to Small Council Meetings.

Coronation Vote - Day One

With twenty one players alive - it requires eleven votes to make a decision. Plurality rules will apply at the deadline.

Enchant [2]:

Enchant, Bellaphant

Dannflor [2]:

PenguinPower, GuiltyLion,

Lady Lambdadelta [2]:

mastina, Charloux

Unowen [2]:

Lady Lambdadelta, Unowen

GuiltyLion [2]:

Dannflor, Andresvmb

Rhaenyra [1]:

Firebringer

mastina [1]:

Rhaenyra,

VP Baltar [1]:

Datisi

Dwlee99 [1]:

VP Baltar

not voting [7]:

Titus, Lukewarm, Andante, Thestatusquo, Dwlee99, ProfessorDrapion, Junkochan

Deadline:

(expired on 2022-11-19 23:48:35)

mod note

datisi - vla wed/thurs always
lukewarm - vla monday
penguin - vla until tuesday
I do everything by hand so please pm me if I miss something

[Rhaenyra]

Flavor

The Hand of the King is the chief advisor to the Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and is the executor of the king's command in the Seven Kingdoms.

Duties of the Hand include commanding the king's armies, drafting laws, dispensing justice, and generally managing the day-to-day running of the kingdom. The Hand may act on the king's behalf when he is indisposed, and sit the Iron Throne while doing so. The Hand also sits on the small council and will run the council if the king is not present.

The office typically makes the Hand the second-most powerful man in the kingdom next to the king, though some Hands have had the reputation of ruling their kings.

It is considered by some to be a difficult and unglamorous job of great responsibility. A popular saying goes, "What the king dreams, the Hand builds," but the lowborn say, "The king eats, and the Hand takes the shit." Many able men have failed in the office throughout history.

Hand of the King

The Hand of the King is Chosen by the King to execute his Will.

They hold the following abilities:

Investigate Loyalty

Once per night you may investigate a player to determine their alignment.

This ability costs [Redacted] Gold Pieces to activate each time.

Member of the Small Council

Has access to Small Council Meetings.

I would vie for this role.

[UNOwen]

I also dislike Shea

Agree with this read. Why is Lukewarm town?

[JunkoChan]

who is shea?