House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[JunkoChan]

I have positive feelings for {GuiltyLion, Andante, JunkoChan} and to a lesser extent {VPB, Dannflor, Lukewarm}.

I wouldn’t have Datisi in my Small Council, or you LLD, or Enchant, and I don’t trust mastina just yet.

I think there’s enough AI content by a few other players I need to spend more time on. Like I feel like I should have a more fleshed out opinion on DW, firebringer, or Rhaenyra, but I don’t just yet.

Oh and I like the Professor - they can stay.

you should add firebringer to that

[Andresvmb]

Why aren't you explaining and trying to convince others of your UNOwen read

I am.

Why are you asking looping rhetorical questions that are specifically worded in ways to try and lead assumptions to players who read them?

You haven't asked me a single question yet about why I believe what I believe, instead you asked me two questions to try to pin me down to something and then followed up with a trap of "well if you believe that, why aren't you pushing it?"

This is why I don't trust you.

You've done the same to me. You asked me a rhetorical question to make it look like I’m not Scum hunting without asking me for my views, all because you misread what I wrote and felt the need to insult my intelligence.

I'm done arguing with you. Find your townies. I'm not insulting your intelligence by asking if you were playing dense to try and avoid something.

You’re done arguing with me now? I mean this is childish. If you don’t have respect for your fellow players, then don’t expect respect back. You more than once tried making points by putting me down and calling me dense. Unprompted. About a conversation that did not involve you.

You could start by answering my direct questions about what you intend to do as Queen. If you don’t want to explain how you would use the powers granted to the King or Queen, then certainly you shouldn’t expect any votes to assume those powers. I’ve expressed how I view things in the ideal - I would consult intensely with my subjects and Council to arrive at solutions I agree with. I would probably take the view that maybe the King or Queen having veto power in certain circumstances makes sense, and I would expect there to be consequences for anyone using the King’s powers unilaterally. And just to clarify so that you don’t insist on arguing with points I’m not making. Is this in any way a statement about how I think the King or Queen will act at all times? No. Is this minimizing the importance of the decision we face? No. Do I think some of us are arrogant enough to assume we will certainly know better than the majority of the Town? Sure.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I have positive feelings for {GuiltyLion, Andante, JunkoChan} and to a lesser extent {VPB, Dannflor, Lukewarm}.

I wouldn’t have Datisi in my Small Council, or you LLD, or Enchant, and I don’t trust mastina just yet.

I think there’s enough AI content by a few other players I need to spend more time on. Like I feel like I should have a more fleshed out opinion on DW, firebringer, or Rhaenyra, but I don’t just yet.

Oh and I like the Professor - they can stay.

you should add firebringer to that

why did you have to do this, i felt so good about you why are you propping up the most unreadable player in the lobby (by design) as someone you are confident as town?

[JunkoChan]

I have positive feelings for {GuiltyLion, Andante, JunkoChan} and to a lesser extent {VPB, Dannflor, Lukewarm}.

I wouldn’t have Datisi in my Small Council, or you LLD, or Enchant, and I don’t trust mastina just yet.

I think there’s enough AI content by a few other players I need to spend more time on. Like I feel like I should have a more fleshed out opinion on DW, firebringer, or Rhaenyra, but I don’t just yet.

Oh and I like the Professor - they can stay.

you should add firebringer to that

why did you have to do this, i felt so good about you why are you propping up the most unreadable player in the lobby (by design) as someone you are confident as town?

sorry ma lady I don't care if you tr or not

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I have positive feelings for {GuiltyLion, Andante, JunkoChan} and to a lesser extent {VPB, Dannflor, Lukewarm}.

I wouldn’t have Datisi in my Small Council, or you LLD, or Enchant, and I don’t trust mastina just yet.

I think there’s enough AI content by a few other players I need to spend more time on. Like I feel like I should have a more fleshed out opinion on DW, firebringer, or Rhaenyra, but I don’t just yet.

Oh and I like the Professor - they can stay.

you should add firebringer to that

why did you have to do this, i felt so good about you why are you propping up the most unreadable player in the lobby (by design) as someone you are confident as town?

sorry ma lady I don't care if you tr or not

lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

no but that's a serious question

why are you so confident about a player who markets themselves as being chaotic and unreadable, Junko?

[Andresvmb]

I have positive feelings for {GuiltyLion, Andante, JunkoChan} and to a lesser extent {VPB, Dannflor, Lukewarm}.

I wouldn’t have Datisi in my Small Council, or you LLD, or Enchant, and I don’t trust mastina just yet.

I think there’s enough AI content by a few other players I need to spend more time on. Like I feel like I should have a more fleshed out opinion on DW, firebringer, or Rhaenyra, but I don’t just yet.

Oh and I like the Professor - they can stay.

See, I like this!

Can you tell me more about GL and Andante?

and... also about Professor and VPB?

Merci

Yes I can answer.

I’ll start with VPB because I think it’s the easiest one to explain, though it’s not the strongest. VPB is asking a lot of questions. They’re probing on the sidelines, and they seem uninformed to me. I liked that they had clearly defined criteria for selecting King or Queen, and the criteria made sense to me. Now the criteria itself does not have to be AI, because Scum can always express criteria that should lead to a positive result and choose wrong on purpose, but VPB doesn’t strike me as doing that.

[Dannflor]

Further, you don't get to tell me I'm misrepresenting you without saying which parts I'm misrepresenting. I'll be awaiting your interpretations on that end..

You don't have a read on him, and you "remember people scum reading him".

Gee, Dannflor, maybe my stance might motivate you to get a read on that player? Do you think?

you said that I said I was bothered by your reads not aligning with mine when I never said that

can you actually explain your UNOwen read now

I would be interested in Rhae too

[JunkoChan]

no but that's a serious question

why are you so confident about a player who markets themselves as being chaotic and unreadable, Junko?

I actually dislike his gameplay a lot, we got heated up in a game once and I never forgot about it, but #150 felt like he actually recognized my town play and brought it up, I think scum!firebringer would just ignore that or jump on scumreading me

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I have positive feelings for {GuiltyLion, Andante, JunkoChan} and to a lesser extent {VPB, Dannflor, Lukewarm}.

I wouldn’t have Datisi in my Small Council, or you LLD, or Enchant, and I don’t trust mastina just yet.

I think there’s enough AI content by a few other players I need to spend more time on. Like I feel like I should have a more fleshed out opinion on DW, firebringer, or Rhaenyra, but I don’t just yet.

Oh and I like the Professor - they can stay.

See, I like this!

Can you tell me more about GL and Andante?

and... also about Professor and VPB?

Merci

Yes I can answer.

I’ll start with VPB because I think it’s the easiest one to explain, though it’s not the strongest. VPB is asking a lot of questions. They’re probing on the sidelines, and they seem uninformed to me. I liked that they had clearly defined criteria for selecting King or Queen, and the criteria made sense to me. Now the criteria itself does not have to be AI, because Scum can always express criteria that should lead to a positive result and choose wrong on purpose, but VPB doesn’t strike me as doing that.

Okay, right, you don't have experience with them.

VP Baltar is one of the oldest and most experienced players on this site, and is a good mafia player.

I have concerns that they are positioning themselves as they are here. For me, the... questions they are asking attempt to come across as having not put enough effort into the mechanics of the game and being old school and wanting to read people but

VP lacks reads too.

So right now VP is sidelining, just like you said... which I think is more of a tactic than an element of their game. They're certainly clever enough to do it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

no but that's a serious question

why are you so confident about a player who markets themselves as being chaotic and unreadable, Junko?

I actually dislike his gameplay a lot, we got heated up in a game once and I never forgot about it, but #150 felt like he actually recognized my town play and brought it up, I think scum!firebringer would just ignore that or jump on scumreading me

You don't consider yourself a player who responds positively to alliance building from other players?

... let me ask that differently.

You don't consider yourself a player who has a blindspot from being alliance pitched by other players?

[Andresvmb]

I have a lot of history with VPB. Why are you assuming I don’t?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Further, you don't get to tell me I'm misrepresenting you without saying which parts I'm misrepresenting. I'll be awaiting your interpretations on that end..

You don't have a read on him, and you "remember people scum reading him".

Gee, Dannflor, maybe my stance might motivate you to get a read on that player? Do you think?

you said that I said I was bothered by your reads not aligning with mine when I never said that

can you actually explain your UNOwen read now

I would be interested in Rhae too

I'll note you still haven't bothered to read UNOwen yourself, interestingly.

Tell you what, here's the deal.

You go back and read those two players, and tell me what your reads on them are and why, and I'll explain to you why I have a townread on them.

Unless you think I pulled names out of a hat, in which case... feel free to think that?

Like you either want my reasonings to be convinced, or to use against me. If it's the later, I don't care to waste my breath, sorry. You can just push me on not answering your questions instead.

If it's the former... go read them and develop your opinions and then we'll see.

[JunkoChan]

no but that's a serious question

why are you so confident about a player who markets themselves as being chaotic and unreadable, Junko?

I actually dislike his gameplay a lot, we got heated up in a game once and I never forgot about it, but #150 felt like he actually recognized my town play and brought it up, I think scum!firebringer would just ignore that or jump on scumreading me

You don't consider yourself a player who responds positively to alliance building from other players?

... let me ask that differently.

You don't consider yourself a player who has a blindspot from being alliance pitched by other players?

No I'm not, because I can 360 no scope turn around at any point without hesitation at signs of scummy behavior

in short I'm not pocketable

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I have a lot of history with VPB. Why are you assuming I don’t?

Because your take on him doesn't match my experiences with him as a player? And because I've got a lot of experiences with him?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

no but that's a serious question

why are you so confident about a player who markets themselves as being chaotic and unreadable, Junko?

I actually dislike his gameplay a lot, we got heated up in a game once and I never forgot about it, but #150 felt like he actually recognized my town play and brought it up, I think scum!firebringer would just ignore that or jump on scumreading me

You don't consider yourself a player who responds positively to alliance building from other players?

... let me ask that differently.

You don't consider yourself a player who has a blindspot from being alliance pitched by other players?

No I'm not, because I can 360 no scope turn around at any point without hesitation at signs of scummy behavior

in short I'm not pocketable

What do you think your lifespan in this game is, at this point?

Additionally, does it matter if you're not pocketable on day 2 if day 1 is this important?

[Dannflor]

Further, you don't get to tell me I'm misrepresenting you without saying which parts I'm misrepresenting. I'll be awaiting your interpretations on that end..

You don't have a read on him, and you "remember people scum reading him".

Gee, Dannflor, maybe my stance might motivate you to get a read on that player? Do you think?

you said that I said I was bothered by your reads not aligning with mine when I never said that

can you actually explain your UNOwen read now

I would be interested in Rhae too

I'll note you still haven't bothered to read UNOwen yourself, interestingly.

Tell you what, here's the deal.

You go back and read those two players, and tell me what your reads on them are and why, and I'll explain to you why I have a townread on them.

Unless you think I pulled names out of a hat, in which case... feel free to think that?

Like you either want my reasonings to be convinced, or to use against me. If it's the later, I don't care to waste my breath, sorry. You can just push me on not answering your questions instead.

If it's the former... go read them and develop your opinions and then we'll see.

this is frustrating

I'm not asking you to "use them against you"

I am asking you because I think it'll probably be a more effective method of sorting you than arguing with you about the same point over and over again

[JunkoChan]

no but that's a serious question

why are you so confident about a player who markets themselves as being chaotic and unreadable, Junko?

I actually dislike his gameplay a lot, we got heated up in a game once and I never forgot about it, but #150 felt like he actually recognized my town play and brought it up, I think scum!firebringer would just ignore that or jump on scumreading me

You don't consider yourself a player who responds positively to alliance building from other players?

... let me ask that differently.

You don't consider yourself a player who has a blindspot from being alliance pitched by other players?

No I'm not, because I can 360 no scope turn around at any point without hesitation at signs of scummy behavior

in short I'm not pocketable

What do you think your lifespan in this game is, at this point?

Additionally, does it matter if you're not pocketable on day 2 if day 1 is this important?

If I don't die day 1 I'll probably be around for a few days, that's how it usually goes in my town games

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Further, you don't get to tell me I'm misrepresenting you without saying which parts I'm misrepresenting. I'll be awaiting your interpretations on that end..

You don't have a read on him, and you "remember people scum reading him".

Gee, Dannflor, maybe my stance might motivate you to get a read on that player? Do you think?

you said that I said I was bothered by your reads not aligning with mine when I never said that

can you actually explain your UNOwen read now

I would be interested in Rhae too

I'll note you still haven't bothered to read UNOwen yourself, interestingly.

Tell you what, here's the deal.

You go back and read those two players, and tell me what your reads on them are and why, and I'll explain to you why I have a townread on them.

Unless you think I pulled names out of a hat, in which case... feel free to think that?

Like you either want my reasonings to be convinced, or to use against me. If it's the later, I don't care to waste my breath, sorry. You can just push me on not answering your questions instead.

If it's the former... go read them and develop your opinions and then we'll see.

this is frustrating

I'm not asking you to "use them against you"

I am asking you because I think it'll probably be a more effective method of sorting you than arguing with you about the same point over and over again

Okay, but Dann?

"Asking to sort me" is "asking to use them against me" if I don't trust that you are town. It's literally the same thing.

You could argue that I'm also trying to sort you right now. So... why should I go first in this little trust exercise?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

no but that's a serious question

why are you so confident about a player who markets themselves as being chaotic and unreadable, Junko?

I actually dislike his gameplay a lot, we got heated up in a game once and I never forgot about it, but #150 felt like he actually recognized my town play and brought it up, I think scum!firebringer would just ignore that or jump on scumreading me

You don't consider yourself a player who responds positively to alliance building from other players?

... let me ask that differently.

You don't consider yourself a player who has a blindspot from being alliance pitched by other players?

No I'm not, because I can 360 no scope turn around at any point without hesitation at signs of scummy behavior

in short I'm not pocketable

What do you think your lifespan in this game is, at this point?

Additionally, does it matter if you're not pocketable on day 2 if day 1 is this important?

If I don't die day 1 I'll probably be around for a few days, that's how it usually goes in my town games

Let me ask you a question I don't actually know the answer to.

Do you think small council positions are reselected by each new king, or mostly retained until death?

[Andresvmb]

I have a lot of history with VPB. Why are you assuming I don’t?

Because your take on him doesn't match my experiences with him as a player? And because I've got a lot of experiences with him?

So two players can’t have different takes on a third player or else one doesn’t have any experience with them? I understand that you think you're a more skilled player than most everyone here given your seniority, but certainly you can recognize that we may disagree and that doesn’t mean I have no idea what I’m talking about, yeah?

[Dannflor]

I'm annoyed that you are assuming malicious intent but maybe that's not fair given that I was assuming malicious intent earlier

I will see if I can pull a read or two out of my ass for those slots when I get back

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I have a lot of history with VPB. Why are you assuming I don’t?

Because your take on him doesn't match my experiences with him as a player? And because I've got a lot of experiences with him?

So two players can’t have different takes on a third player or else one doesn’t have any experience with them? I understand that you think you're a more skilled player than most everyone here given your seniority, but certainly you can recognize that we may disagree and that doesn’t mean I have no idea what I’m talking about, yeah?

That's....

Man, if you know VPB is experienced enough to be sidelining purposefully why the fuck are you giving him a pass for that?

And, no, you're welcome to share a different opinion but if you KNOW HIM AND KNOW HE IS CAPABLE then your stance is REALLY WEIRD to me.

Like, fuck, your stance being more explainable as you not knowing VPB and giving him the benefit of the doubt is way more likely than your stancing being "I know this player is experienced and competent but I think that they're just lost and confused and sidelining and asking questions".

It has nothing to do with fucking senority or experience my dude. It's just a more rational assumption based on what you said than the world we apparently live in now.

Like fuck, is every conversation with you going to be like this? Do you just have the biggest chip on your shoulder?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm annoyed that you are assuming malicious intent but maybe that's not fair given that I was assuming malicious intent earlier

I will see if I can pull a read or two out of my ass for those slots when I get back

I don't assume malicious intent, I just don't currently trust your alignment, doubly given you went A to C and skipped B... and now you want B from me after I pointed that out.

Like as stated in my reads I already didn't trust you. You gave me less reason to trust you. So I'm playing guarded with you, yes.

[Andresvmb]

I’ll keep going though with explaining my reads - I think Andante is the easiest player to perceive as Town, though I wouldn’t sleep on them potentially faking this natural nervousness they have. I just can’t bring myself to think the slot is Scum.