Open 84 - Fire and Ice Mafia - Game Over!

[forbiddanlight]

/confirm

[forbiddanlight]

I'll

vote roflcopter

. I one heard 8th on list is always scummy. You can always trust urban legends .

[forbiddanlight]

Let's see, maybe it's the fact that even in joke voting, you give a reason, no matter how bullcrappy. Most of his contributions have been "vote" "vote" "awwww" (when he got voted) "Nice one, vote". So, I actually agree with a

vote:Chubbs

(4th doesn't bring him close to lynch, does it?)

[forbiddanlight]

Wow, way to jump on Snix.

Pretty sure this is page 3, there's not much you can make in the way of contribution besides voting.

This still is a good predictor of how he'll play when we get serious. Most of the time, you still play with a bit more...care...than Chubbs has in the random voting stage, and it really doesn't look good. It feels scummy.

[forbiddanlight]

Protip, Chubbs. Wagons that start like this are imminently defendable. Giving up just makes us think you are attempting to use an AtE to save yourself by pretending to give up. Right now, I don't even think you are halfway to a lynch, and even if you are, giving up is NOT the answer. It just makes you look scummy, and if you ARE town, lynching you only hurts us.

[forbiddanlight]

Jou...I really hope that's a joke. DON'T FREAKING SET UP LYNCHES LIKE THAT! I mean, there is absolutely NO connection there between rofl and chubbs. If chubbs flips town, that says nothing except that rofl's judgement is bad. And you are right, he's at 5, and it appears to take 8 to lynch. It might not be a good idea to take him to L-2 in that case. Still...I like my vote where it is, but I want to

FoS:Joubert

for what I already outlined.

[forbiddanlight]

I actually missed that, buuuut:

in other news, when chubbs cardflips mafia, we lynch eldritch lord for being his partner.

I would vote Chubbs, but at the express condition that if he flips "Town", we lynch Roflcopter without questionning...

There's a difference. rofl is conditional on Chubbs flipping scum, and there is a weak connection between him and Eldritch (i.e, Eldritch is the only one defending Chubbs). Yours is like "rofl needs to die if Chubbs flips town" even though the only link is that rofl is pushing a Chubbs lynch, and several people are doing that. Chubbs being town would have no bearing on rofl's alignment. HOWEVER, I don't think rofl's course of action is correct, and would not support an Eldritch lynch based on just that. But, I also know that's rofl's style. I don't believe that's your style, but I can't be sure. Either way, rofl didn't do the same thing you did really.

[forbiddanlight]

Mod, you also messed up my vote. I'm voting chubbs

You didn't unvote first.

[forbiddanlight]

Ok, fine.

unvote, vote Joubert

To be quite honest, I'm fine with lynching either of them. They've both seemed scummy. However...Chubbs is more likely to screw up and lead us to his scum buddies if he lives, whereas I give Joubert more credit than that. So, Joubert lynch if I have to, but I'm fine with the Chubbwagon. (I'll hammah it if I have to and Joubert wagon isn't gaining steam)

[forbiddanlight]

What is Joubert at anyway?

Mod, can I has votecount?

Well, why not.
---

Joubert (6): roflcopter, forbiddanlight, orangepenguin, mik5, Snix, Eldritch Lord
ChubbsMcLubbs (3): Alabaska J, Geddingsworth, somestrangeflea
roflcopter (1): Joubert
armlx (1): Scigatt
No Lynch (1): ChubbsMcLubbs

Not Voting (2): armlx, Sun Tzu

[forbiddanlight]

I just didn't see the scumminess that the wagon apparently saw, and didn't want to jump on that wagon. I think Joubert's vote x off today, and y tomorrow tactic seemed REALLY scummy- a lot moreso than Chubbs.

Ok, then why aren't you saying anything about roflcopter? He said the same thing. What's the difference?

[forbiddanlight]

holy shit forbiddanlight, how many fucking times do i have to explain that i did not say the same thing as joubert. go read my fucking posts about it, it is explained in very simple terms.

I wanted to see OP say that. You remember I was the one who pointed out the difference? I wanted to see if OP understood that or if he was just jumping on with half assed logic. I was hoping no one would ruin that, but alas, someone did. Tends to happen apparently. Also, dislike Jou's defense. It's too much "OMG, you misunderstoooooood me"and then OMGUS. no dice.

[forbiddanlight]

So, that's the HAMMAH! ? Should be one scum down, 3 to go then! Well, hopefully...

[forbiddanlight]

Woah, woah, woah! What is the DEAL with this magical Chubbwagon here? I mean, we were wrong about Jou, shouldn't we be taking this time to, yanno, reexamine our logic? Also, would like to know why rofl and Snix were FoS'd?

[forbiddanlight]

Also, what happened to the fire kill? MAybe I misunderstood the set up, but I thought there were two kills per night? I guess it's not told if a kill is nullified?

[forbiddanlight]

The only reason I was speculating was because I didn't know if a failed kill was revealed. I was hoping to get some information from intended targets. Clearly that's not going to happen, and thinking on it, it makes sense for balance. However, it is good to have only one scum inflicted kill since that buys us time. I don't like the fact that you and Alabaska just rushed right in with Chubbs votes without reexamining the case. Also, I want to know more about why Ala FoS'd those two, regardless of who they were.

[forbiddanlight]

HAmmer is at 7 guys, not 6. I need more time to take a look at the man of the hour and other potential cases than I have tonight. Should have a good idea of whether I think Ged is scum or not tomorrow evening/late afternoon.

[forbiddanlight]

I HAZ MAED DIZZCKOVERY! someone in this thread has not seen JCS

That would be true. Why should I see it?

[forbiddanlight]

It's a good movie musical rock opera.

I shall consider it sometime. I don't watch many movies.

[forbiddanlight]

Reply with quote
Chubbs, those two have been responsible for turning both wagons into quick lynches so far.

Also, Snix's "cautious" attitude was gone D2 until the Ged wagon happened.

We can only lynch one at a time. I personally would have to take a couple hours to do a reread to decide which I thought was scummier. I don't have a couple hours til potentially tomorrow. However, your pointing out of voting trends was a really good call. This is the classic case of voting trends possibly finding mafia. I'll probably weigh in time to time on what's going on today, but I'm going to attempt to reread in my usual manner (spend forever on a summary, take a half hour beyond forever to post thoughts on my perception of the games events) throughout tonight and tomorrow (though I'm going to be out for some of tonight). I will pay special attention to Snix and Eldritch though.

[forbiddanlight]

I didn't bother doing the exhaustive reread in the end because it takes so long and I'm getting burned out doing analysis and rereads all the time. I took a look specifically at Snix and Eldritch, and actually feel that Eldritch was actually attempting to connect himself to Snix, possibly to set up a mislynch due to a flip. The thing is, I don't understand the motivation. Why be so obvious and set something like that up when there are more effective ways to cause mislynches without killing yourself? I myself feel Snix hasn't done anything overtly scummy, but nothing overtly pro town either. I do however think that if Eldrtich flips scum, Snix might be the wrong way to go. The connection just seems way too obvious. I could be over thinking it though. I'm a little uncomfortable with it, but I will

vote Eldritch Lord

. It's possible neither are scum...but somehow I don't see that being true, and trying to connect yourself to someone as a kamikaze is more scummy than Snix appears to me.

[forbiddanlight]

I still need to do a reread, but I find one person annoying/suspicious. This person is Sun Tzu, who has had only three posts, all irrelevant. He has been lurking more than anyone this game.

This too, he disappeared after D1.

Mod, can you prod Sun Tzu if you haven't already?

Done.

[forbiddanlight]

This is funny given you quick hammered one of the people and were the L-1 vote on the other.

Can you tell us why Snix is scummier than EL, even though EL has done most of the blatant following?

[forbiddanlight]

armix, can you please answer my question? Or at least point out where you have already? Or do you not have any particular preference? I like a lot of your case, but I personally disagree with where you put your vote because EL has been the true actor of scumminess if we use this case.

[forbiddanlight]

I was looking at his swap from Chubbs to Ged D2 out of nowhere. I could lynch either of them though at this point, and the level of barning EL has admitted to today makes him look a lot worse then earlier.

Fair enough. I think I'll stick on EL.

[forbiddanlight]

This is the kind of following Armlx's case against me is based on

Not really. I looked for myself, and notice I'm not voting with armix. I just said that he might have a point on snix, I just personally think that the case on you is better. Really, either of you can go because of this:

EL, I don't buy the fact you trusted those enough to lynch someone that fast.

armix once again is right. Only scum buddies can trust each other enough for that. I'm just more willing to give Snix the benefit of the doubt since you were the one transparently following Snix around all game.

[forbiddanlight]

Anyway. The D1 Chubbs-wagon was pretty lame and I don't know why there was still even the slightest hint of it D2. It pretty much just started from a string of overreactions. But most of those on that wagon are dead now, with the exception of forbiddanlight, whose suspicion of Chubbs, I noticed, completely evaporated D2, as she shifts from apparently having Chubbs as a second suspect to Joubert, followed by this as (I think) her first post D2:

Is that a problem? I think it's rather smart to reconsider things that might have occurred yesterday after the colossal failure concerning Joubert. I think that was a smart move given Chubbs' much better play (well, more substantial anyway). Course, it'd kinda suck if he were scum and we just gave him a bye :S.

[forbiddanlight]

Eh, I just found it interesting is all. Maybe it means something, maybe it doesn't. Maybe I'll want to revisit it later, especially if you die and are scum.

I don't plan to die. And on the offchance I do, I won't flip scum. But for once, I'd like to make it to the end. I tend to have a bad habit of being lynched. I do however agree with that view, and it gives you more pro town points in my book .

[forbiddanlight]

L/A today (not that it matters much, been kinda slow in this game)

[forbiddanlight]

This game is really dying here. I think we need a prod on pretty much everyone who's not armix, snix, EL, orangepenguin (I think?), or Cephrir. Also, I'm ambivalent on meta arguments. In some cases they can prevent a (likely) mislynch like in one of my ongoings, but in other cases they confuse evidence and protect scum. I'm not sure what the aim is here right now.

[forbiddanlight]

Okay, when I said in my one post that we needed to slow down, and take our time, I didn't mean stop posting. Sad Perhaps we need some prods? I admit, I haven't been posting either, but some haven't posted in almost a week (just a guess, I didn't actually go and check)

Yeah, I noticed. Yay for dead games. It's just I didn't want to jump in with nothing to say :S. I already asked for a few prods :S.

[forbiddanlight]

I think forbiddanlight is the scummiest so far in my mind because for all his claims otherwise, I'm getting kind of a follower impression from him (takes one to know one, amirite?) despite the fact that he's voting for me for following. Not an OMGUS suspicion, I just think its noteworthy compared to pretty much everything else in this game. I think that whatever the case, I'm willing to act scummy just to keep this game moving for the rest of ya, so:

Well, you've already proven you pay no attention to detail merely in your pronoun usage. Now second, can you actually back this accusation up? And is this the only evidence? Ya see, you have the whole jumping on quick bandwagons against you as well as the BLATENT following. I don't think you can quite liken the cases. If you can come up with better, I'll accept this. For now, you are deflecting.

confirm vote Eldritch Lord

[forbiddanlight]

Is that to me on Eldritch or to Eldritch on me?

[forbiddanlight]

Forbiddan, don't care if you're a man or a woman.

I will say him, no girls on the internet, etc.

nyeh, irrelevant. Why not respond to the points I brought up? Or maybe you can't? Liking my vote now.

[forbiddanlight]

You quickly drop a vote and throw down a 4th vote on a bandwagon Day 1 Page 3 for not explaining his votes enough. Still, your explanation is pretty weak for a 4th vote, imho. I missed Post Identity 206-I like this post. Still, your Day 2 play is pretty weak, I don't see you making a strong case against anyone and as the day gets more and more serious you indulge in a conversation regarding the greatest rock opera of all time. Perhaps not a scumtell, but it certainly doesn't make you the most helpful town either.

I was barely around for day 2 really to say much. I also wasn't on that failwagon on Geddings. I WAS going to go back through on Geddings and see if I agreed or not, but after I said that someone dropped the hammer. As for D1, L-4 isn't that worrysome, IMO. (I didn't know it at the time, I admit, but still, this game had to be at least 8 to lynch being a large game). You go with what seems scummy. It's the same reason I switched to Joubert after his little game. I wish he had explained himself better rather than lurked his way to death.

Whenever I see a confirm vote, it strikes me as deflecting (HAI ROOK GUISE, I'M VOTIN FER HEM REMEMBER?!)

Why would I deflect at one vote? Quite frankly, I wish I could have voted you again. I'm not trying to start a new case that's not mine when I'm in danger of lynch. That seems to be what you are doing.

Well we sure are an impatient town for one with 2 mislynches in the past 2 days. But since you guys got your knickers all bundled up, here it goes. Look, forbiddanlight, I cannot make the cases the same--they are not. Mine is a lack of judgment in trusting Snix (something that has happened before)--where yours is as of yet unexplained. They are not similar, your case is a milder case of mine--and not nearly as suspicious, but I'm certainly not going to vote for myself and no other player really has anything for me to go on.

Alright, tell me where I've followed so I may explain it. You had your followings pointed out with a rather unsatisfactory explanation. If you really think you can catch scum in me, you should probably try to play the same card.

And logically, if I feel I have nothing else to go on from any other player, and know that I am not scum--then looking for even the mildest hypocrisy becomes a valid option.

Granted. I still suspect you. Is there really no one else suspicious?

[forbiddanlight]

I just don't see how you can criticize me for the first two days of my play when yours are almost just as bad. I feel I'm missing something, I may double-post.

I missed this. I can because it wasn't as bad as yours, and the supposed "badness" of my play is rather subjective.

[forbiddanlight]

Prod picked up, hoping that some of the other players show up so we can work out if we are going for EL, Snix, or the comical third option.

[forbiddanlight]

Hi, I was just kinda wondering, are we still playing this gmae? And also, EL, voting has more purposes than lynching. Pressure votes do occur. I know I've used them without intent to lynch and gather information. Also, your last post feels a bit OMGUSy towards armix.

[forbiddanlight]

Obviously they do, since its happened twice in this game.

/facepalming right now? I thought so.

Were those pressure votes though? Seemed everyone was ready to lynch. Hell, most of you couldn't even wait for me to take a look at Geddingsworth and weigh in. That mildly pissed me off.

[forbiddanlight]

So, when do the replacements arrive? Last I checked WC needed two.

[forbiddanlight]

Still ambivalent towards this wagon.

a mik5 one, right? Well, he needs to be replaced if I read the replacement thread right.

[forbiddanlight]

a mik5 one, right?

I was hoping he could answer first.

Sorry. I was getting bored and saw a question. I'll refrain from answering things directed to other people in the future.

[forbiddanlight]

First, Chubbs, you could get my gender right. It's annoying that people can't pay attention to the icons right next to someone's posts

Second:

So im doing a reread and there 3 people that really seem suspiscious to me. Those being forbiddenlight, orange penguin, and Snix. In the first 6 pages all three of you seemed to have no care for your votes. constantly changing between people.

So we no longer have the right to change our minds? My apologies for trying to actually...you know...think instead of tunnel vision.

and upon the lynching of Joubert, who ended up being town, he proclaimed;
"So, that's the HAMMAH!"

Um...because I thought Jou was scum, obviously. And was rather happy to see the hammer because I thought it would be a good start. I was wrong.

Also, when the Night 1 fire kill didnt go through:
"Also, what happened to the fire kill? "

Yeah, but you'll also notice I asked that because I wanted to know if they said who was targetted when a kill failed. I kinda expected to see a "Blank was burned but it failed" Or something. So that's why I was wondering.

My geuss: he's fire mafia and was wondering what the heck happened to the kill they sent in that night.

Good guess, but it's wrong. I will admit though, that's a fair conclusion given what you chose to present rather than the whole story

"HAmmer is at 7 guys, not 6. "
once again, paying close attention to the votes needed to lynch someone.

Well, excuse me if I notice things. How is it anti town to point out votes needed to lynch? It's a null tell at best. I could even argue it's pro town since I'm warning of the hammer and how close we are. I'm not going to argue that because I wasn't, I was merely making an observation, but I still say this is probably your weakest point.

"I don't plan to die. And on the offchance I do, I won't flip scum"
what makes you so sure you won't die? assuming you are town like you say then you actually have a good chance of dying seing as you can get lynched or killed by one of two mafias. now if you are one of those mafias, you wont vote for yourself and you cant get killed by the other mafia. Much better chances of surviving the night and it would make it the "offchance" that you could die as you say.

Because for once, I plan to play to survive as well as help town. So, I'm trying to play middle of the road effectiveness. Clearly it's working well. I'm suspected enough so the mafia would be foolish to kill me, and I think I can talk myself out of being lynched with enough effort.

Oh yeah, what did I said that in response to anyway? Just curious.

I know pretty much everyone has someone they think is suspiscious at this point for multiple reasons. The Snix, EL connection desserves attention as well as many other actions by various players. But there are still 4 Mafia out there.

Fair enough. A counter wagon helps prevent tunnel vision.

Vote: Forbiddanlight because I think he is one of them.

Hope to convince you of your folly before you make too many mistakes.

Chubbs, I'm glad you finally got around to making a case. I feel better about your alignment being pro town because that is actually a fairly built case (much better than say, ELs). Unfortunately (or fortunately rather), it's a little bit off for the reasons outlined above. I'd also appreciate it if you participated more than popping in with a post now and then.

---

Eldritch Lord (3): forbiddanlight, orangepenguin, armlx
forbiddanlight (2): Eldritch Lord, ChubbsMcLubbs
mik5 (1): Cephrir

Not Voting (3): mik5, Scigatt, Snix

[forbiddanlight]

EBWOP: Why are Snix and OP suspicious though, just the votes?

[forbiddanlight]

Granted this was after rofls post outing out Joubert so it wasn't clear out of the water But still, it seemed like you finally flipped towards joubert once you saw rofl going for him as well.
Like i said changing your mind is great, and not to be tunnelvisioned. but you flip flopped so much it was somewhat ridiculous.

Not really. I in fact was the one that pointed out Jou's error after he brought up "rofl did the same thing!" And I explained why it wasn't here:

There's a difference. rofl is conditional on Chubbs flipping scum, and there is a weak connection between him and Eldritch (i.e, Eldritch is the only one defending Chubbs). Yours is like "rofl needs to die if Chubbs flips town" even though the only link is that rofl is pushing a Chubbs lynch, and several people are doing that. Chubbs being town would have no bearing on rofl's alignment. HOWEVER, I don't think rofl's course of action is correct, and would not support an Eldritch lynch based on just that. But, I also know that's rofl's style. I don't believe that's your style, but I can't be sure. Either way, rofl didn't do the same thing you did really.

.
And just because I was fine with either lynch doesn't mean I was flip flopping. I was going for the people I found scummiest. I liked my vote on you at the time I pointed that out, but as time started passing without Jou defending himself sufficiently, as well as the fact that his wagon had more traction, I felt Jou was a better play.

I guess, I mean when i saw that the fire kill went through i didnt really care why. i was just glad another townie wasnt killed.you posting wondering what the hell happened just seemed weird to me. but we are different people with different reactions to certain things. its possible you were just curious.

Fair enough. It could have been taken as the gloating scum tell, I understand.

i just picked the posts you made that made you look scummy to me. and left the posts that were townish out because no one knows whether your trying to deceive us or are truly being pro-town. If you would like to prove your case of being town by your posts rather than just refuting my post then please do.

Fair enough. But context matters in how someone looks scummy. Most of this was born in how you presented my reaction to the fire kill since it was more than what you showed.

Who do you think is scummy forbiddan?

EL is scummy, especially given his response under pressure. I feel Snix is more the victim of being followed by a scummy player, but I reread him in isolation so I could be wrong. I wish mik would post more but I don't precisely see Cephrir's case on him. It might gain credence if mik posts more and swings me either way. OP has a bit of "I agree syndrome" like EL, but it's not as strong. I would prefer he start posting his own reasoning, and if I HAD to vote someone not EL, I'd probably vote OP right now.

Really, it's hard right now to give a good clear who is scummy answer since the first two days flew by (hell, I didn't even get to reread Geddingsworth before the hammer), and second half the players aren't posting. For now, I'd pin EL and OP. If EL does flip scum (which I think he will), I could consider more Snixtastic scrutiny, but don't feel it would lead anywhere. I may change my mind as more people post.

[forbiddanlight]

EBWOP:

Snix throughout the whole game has seemed scummy. His interaction with those who, we now know, were townies. His voting patterns. When I read all 14 pages alot of his posts seemed somewhat scummy. nothing completely out there. but i didnt really notice a pro-town post. maybe its just the way i saw things. but thats that.

If you point out examples it's possible I may exercise the right to change my mind. I should probably reread him again looking closer.

[forbiddanlight]

So if you really think this then why should my being scum make him more scummy? I smell somebody setting up a mislynch.

I don't know! That's the problem! I don't know whether Snix is a victim or not. I kinda thought that, but I could see blatent following to give that impression. It's freaking WIFOM and I hate it. That's mostly why I said I'll look at Snix more closely pending how you flip but don't think it'll lead anywhere.

It is hard to get a clear idea of who is scummy when the first two days went by so quickly, and yet with only 15 pages of discussion on Page 3 and no conclusive evidence to go on you are talking about my flip as though I'm already lynched and then go on to set up a link to Snix for the next day despite having said:

To be fair, I haven't linked you guys inseperably yet. Half of it depends on your flip if it happens (It might, given how the day has gone so far), and the other half depends on how Snix further handles himself and how a closer look reflects on him in the context of all the flips.

[forbiddanlight]

Sorry, my bad

No response to my defense?

[forbiddanlight]

I didn't think I had to respond to it. You put up your defense against my thoughts on you and the examples I gave where you seemed scummy to me. Plus i thought your last defense was towards EL's post against you. I didn't know I had to elaborate any more.

Well, then are you ceding that I'm defended well? In which case you should probably unvote. Are you still thinking I'm scum? then counter my defense. If you need to consider, please, say so.

and the Sorry my bad was towards Cephrir for not using proper quotation

I know. I was merely quoting you because you posted without response.

[forbiddanlight]

So, I was kinda wondering. Are we still playing here or are we just planning to let the game stall until someone posts, which won't happen because there is nothing new to respond to?

[forbiddanlight]

I'm interested in playing, but I've said all I feel is relevant for the time being.

Same here, but no one will post if no one is posting. It's the vicious cycle that causes mafia games to die.

[forbiddanlight]

Apparently. We are waiting on two replacements last I checked.

[forbiddanlight]

Personally? Much as I'd love to kick the game in the rear and get it started again...it's not in the best interest of the town to end the day with 2 absent people. If we are wrong, we could have just given up to two scum a free pass cause they gave up. Do you honestly want to take that risk? However, I also agree there does come a point where the time a day takes is ridiculous. Sooo...I'd like to do this.

Mod, how long do you think it will take you to find replacements, and is there any way we can help?

I would like to hold the hammer for however long WC says it will take, and if she succeeds give the replacements a few more days to catch up and hopefully give us a more complete look at the game.

Fair enough everyone? Not that I really have any power to do anything, I just wanted to make a suggestion.

[forbiddanlight]

Glad to see the slots filled. I wanna see what their conclusions are.

[forbiddanlight]

So, what the current VC look like?

L-? are you EL?

As far as I know, EL is at L-1. (if you wanted him to answer sorry).

Hey, EL, you could do us a favor and reveal your scumbuddy .

[forbiddanlight]

L-? are you EL?

Am I the only one who realized xtoxm said EL was scum, then asked if Eldritch Lord was EL?

This? I think he's more asking what EL is at in terms of votes to lynch. Weird conclusion to come to IMO.

[forbiddanlight]

What do you interpret that as then?

I think he's more asking what EL is at in terms of votes to lynch

---

Eldritch Lord (4): forbiddanlight, armlx, Snix, orangepenguin
forbiddanlight (2): Eldritch Lord, ChubbsMcLubbs
Jenethron (1): Cephrir

Not Voting (2): Jenethron, Xtoxm

[forbiddanlight]

If EL flips scum, which I find likely, I would have to conclude Snix is more suspect. But, my scumlist?

EL, possibly Snix, possibly Chubbs (if Snix isn't EL's buddy, since Chubbs followed the same case EL did. Then again, that case WAS on me, and I admit it was an alright one, didn't feel too forced, so I could be wrong), and...orangepenguin. He acted a little sketchy to supposedly get things moving, and I haven't been overly impressed with him thus far. This is just off the top of my head and I should probably reread.

[forbiddanlight]

LoSes seem somewhat antitown.

...damn. I wasn't even thinking when I posted mine. You are right too...we should...probably stop at this point. Sorry, I wasn't even thinking of mafia theory when I posted :S.

[forbiddanlight]

Why is it antitown?

It might be considered anti town to explain, I'm not sure, but I think it bears saying.

Essentially, if everyone throws out and LoS, it gives the scum a road map to who's considered most pro town and who's considered most likely to be lynched. I forgot about this when I posted mine and Cephrir reminded me.

[forbiddanlight]

Uhhh, only LoS's that rank the non-scum considered people from most to least town really do that.

To an extent. I can still see a full scumlist from everyone giving a lot of information to the scum.

[forbiddanlight]

I'll be away for about 10 days.

I don't suppose the mod will care.

Do night without me if you want, i'm a townie so it means shit all to me.

This is an odd afterword to me. Why do you feel the need to point out that the night matters not to you and let that imply you are town? Or rather, outright SAY that makes you town?

---

Eldritch Lord (4): forbiddanlight, armlx, Snix, orangepenguin
forbiddanlight (2): Eldritch Lord, ChubbsMcLubbs
Jenethron (1): Cephrir

Not Voting (2): Jenethron, Xtoxm

[forbiddanlight]

I now have 3 major suspects and am posting this so I don't forget.

I just noticed this and realized that I still managed to forget. Fail.

Just curious...if you suspect people, how do you forget who they are unless you already know half the scum and they aren't on that list? Just curious...seems odd to forget who you wanted to go after.

[forbiddanlight]

Fair enough. I was spreading an idle thought that doesn't make as much sense as I thought this set up.

[forbiddanlight]

Well, I don't WANT to abandon this. It seemed to be fun. But I don't see any other option

Vote abandonment

[forbiddanlight]

Thesp is the list mod. Replacing WC as a mod in an open game will be INCREDIBLY difficult with an absent Thesp, I believe.

[forbiddanlight]

I'd like to get this game moving for better or for worse. I want everyone to post, to vote, and end the day. I want a deadline when you have everyone replaced. If these can't occur, then I'd like to abandon.

And yes, I want to end the day with a lynch, duh.

[forbiddanlight]

If the mod isn't responding to people wanting to replace in, I want no part in this.

This. I'll keep my vote for abadonment until we have replacements and a semi active mod.

[forbiddanlight]

As long as you handle it, I don't need a new mod. But you have to actually handle it.

[forbiddanlight]

Works for me. Can we have a reasonable deadline that lets the replacements catch up but brings an end to this day eventually?

[forbiddanlight]

Alright, thanks for the VC and deadline. I'd like to ask what makes me scum with OP? I plan to reread him to find out if the points against him are valid, but I wonder where this connection comes from, and what makes me scum?

[forbiddanlight]

Exhibit A and B point out an inconsistency based on who she is talking too. Scumbuddy tells?? -I'm not sure what this inconsistency means...

Wait what? This is BS, and you know it. Um...let's see, one person was defending a case. The other one was pushing a case. THEY REQUIRE DIFFERENT RESPONSES!

Screams false dilemma.

Only the same one that armix pushed. If you are going to call me on it, call armix on it.

More breadcrumbing about EL. I think she may KNOW he is town and not want to be on the bad side of it when he flips after lynch.

You really are stupid, aren't you? Even as scum I can't know that EL is town. Two scum groups? Or did that slip your mind when you were partying with your buddy? Oh wait, shouldn't OMGUS.

Thanks for letting us know that you won’t flip scum… you look way too defensive by pointing that out. And you also make an emotional appeal for getting to endgame. You’re not close to lynch at this point, but you are getting antsy.

Hi, take a look at ANY OTHER GAME I'm in. I get overdefensive upon being attacked naturally. Part of it's my thought process that I know I'm town, and that anyone would attack me is ridiculously stupid (in my eyes)

Trying way too hard to be townie.

Uh no. That was being a townie because I am one. I honestly disliked how the wagon appeared out of nowhere without anyone reconsidering. What the hell are you on?

Way to throw your vote around. As a townie you should be ever aware of exactly what you are doing so that people don’t get mis-lynched.

Actually, it's more I don't pay much attention to early game stuff. I didn't think he'd be close to lynch that early, but I wanted to ask to make sure. And yes, I also didn't count the number of players in the game. My fault. Seriously, calling me out on not paying attention is one of the weakest attacks I've had yet.

Who did you replace, sekinj? Because as far as I can tell, given that bullshit case, you've made them and yourself look a lot scummier.

[forbiddanlight]

wow. calling me stupid and implying that I'm high just doesn't cut it as a defense.. try again.

Well, obviously you didn't read the rules when you replaced in. NO ONE knows who's town except for the mod. I was harsh, I'll admit, but it still stands that that was utter crap.

The trying to be too hard to be a townie is so subjective that call really can't be made. I love how you focused on the insults rather than the actual defense, because you can't refute it. And thanks for telling me who she replaced, armix.

Unvote, Vote sekinj

I guess I can rule out the mik (now sek)/fl pair that I was speculating on before. Unless they are extreme busing, which would be stupid. I think fl is way more scummier than sek though. I could also see a fl/armlx as one pair.

Where's your case? Or are you ONCE AGAIN jumping on whoever seems to look like they might be lynched? Screw sekinj, we'll lynch her later.

Unvote, vote OP

Would it be a good thing for each person to list their top 4 suspects? And decide the lynch from there, after people back up their suspicions for each then. We can narrow the suspect pool down, and decide who to lynch. It makes sense in my head, in a perfect scenario, but I don't think it'd be good. Just something that popped in my head, since we all are throwing out potential scum pairs.

Ok

EL/Snix, sekinj/OP

[forbiddanlight]

they both called you the wrong gender. you didn't care the first time, and then the second time that was the very first thing you address. That is inconsistant.

No, I responded to both. The supposed inconsistency isn't there, and is your weakest point. Nice try.

that doesn't sweep it under the rug. you were putting on way too much of a show.

No...I wasn't. That's...my natural style. Read other games I've been in for proof, k?

No, I'm really not stupid. and even if I WAS scum like you are OMGUSing, when exactly would I have been "partying with my buddy"? today? or during the last night when I wasn't even in this game? "You really are stupid, aren't you?" You seem WAY too certain that EL will flip town to be voting him. You have at least 3 posts saying how much you think he is town or how unsurprised you will be when he flips town. If you are so unsure, why were you voting him for a month?

Um...no, I don't. Where are you getting these? I think EL is scum and have stood by that all day? Either you are taking some sarcasm as fact or you are once again trying to push something without proof.

I cede the partying with your buddy, I should have remembered that that doesn't exactly work. You still fail though, since there is no way I can know EL is town (Which he likely isn't) even as scum.

Right. everyone who has not seen your role PM is ridiculously stupid... what a great defense... I really don't know what to say to that. you got me there.

No, that's just the way I respond to attacks. It's a failing of my, ok? But it still fits my meta, whether you like it or not. My scum game here shows a rather different playstyle, methinks.

I'm on mafiascum.net where we play the game of mafia. the way you play is that townpeople try to act town, and mafia try to act town as well.

Noise

When I am town, I tend to pay attention to who I'm trying to lynch because I'm trying to find scum. however, when I am scum, I tend to pay a little less attention since I already know. That's exactly what this looks like to me.

I don't pay attention at all as either ^-^

...because it is...

No, it isn't. This case is a pile of manure. Chubbs case was a lot better than this. Why not steal from him so I can go round on that?

I'm fine with either an OP or sekinj lynch. Since Cephrir will support a sekinj lynch, which is most likely good, since even if he's scum lynching sekinj doesn't preclude her from being scum, I will

Unvote, vote sekinj

[forbiddanlight]

You are attacking menial issues + the fact she agrees with the EL/Snix connection....

Oh, and this. I still don't like being defended by someone else though...it's too easy to be set up for a fall :S.

I'd like to mention I'm going V/LA starting Thursday, but I'm going to be low activity most of this week anyway. I should be back monday.

So, do me a favor and don't lynch me over this week, k?

[forbiddanlight]

You are still trying to set me up. Though it's odd to see two people attacking me while the rest are neutral to protecting me. That...kinda implies something.

Also, for not wanting to lynch me you sure are putting a lot of effort into painting me scummy with falsehoods for the most part.

[forbiddanlight]

I'd like to mention I'm going V/LA starting Thursday, but I'm going to be low activity most of this week anyway. I should be back monday.

So, do me a favor and don't lynch me over this week, k?

gag me, emotional appeal.

Wait, what? Hello? I'm just informing you I'm out this week and I'd like to be around to defend more allegations when they come up? You seriously are trying WAY to hard to make everything I say scummy. Confirmation bias is bleeding through your posts.

[forbiddanlight]

you asked.

For a real case. Not what you are trying to push. I am happy that the town has it's brain engaged this fine day ^-^.

[forbiddanlight]

I agree Senkinj's case isn't the best but I don't like how people are suddenly piling on her. At least she's making a case of her own! Orangepenguin isn't even doing that!

But the thing about this is, there are two people attacking me. The scum teams are in groups of two. There are FAR more than two people piling on sekinj.

[forbiddanlight]

I count four (and you, but you don't count since she's attacking you), there's four scum, maybe it's just that easy?

Scum teams don't know each other. At best, there would be three, since a kill was missed, possibly indicating scum hitting another scum. But even that's iffy. I really don't think it's that easy, lol.

---

Eldritch Lord (2): armlx, orangepenguin
forbiddanlight (2): Eldritch Lord, ChubbsMcLubbs
orangepenguin (2): sekinj, forbiddanlight
sekinj (2): Cephrir, Snix
Snix (1): m4yhem

Not Voting (0):

[forbiddanlight]

As for the short post case, that's what I do. Unless I'm trying to convince the entire town of someone's scummieness it's short posts. Meta me for confirmation.

I'm a sucker for meta, and extraordinarily lazy. Can you link examples?

Otherwise, I accept the Snix case, but dislike the source. I'd dismiss it out of hand it there weren't two scum groups. I think I'll look closer in that direction pending Snix's answer.

[forbiddanlight]

What do you mean, you're a sucker for meta? Does that mean you like it?

Yes, it means I like meta ^-^

What have I done to make you dislike me?

You aren't the source of the snix case. sekinj is. And I only mean that in the context of the game.

Still happy to lynch snix. Short posts doesn't explain the bandwagonning sufficently.

I prefer sekinj, but I will accept Snix if it starts to approach deadline.

[forbiddanlight]

The only crime I seem to have commited is being unlucky. And you are all willing to kill me over that? You wonder why the first two days went so quick was because we have two scum groups and the most gullable town (me included) known to man

I'd like to point out you are really a hypocrite in this. At no point did you try to stop anyone else's quicklynch.

At least on Geddings I tried to reread first, but when I got back someone hammered :S.

[forbiddanlight]

I had ''me included'' in there if you didn't notice.

That doesn't absolve you.

[forbiddanlight]

I had ''me included'' in there if you didn't notice.

That doesn't absolve you.

Yeah, but it doesn't make me hypocritical. Just repentative...ish

Let me put it this way. I've found more often scum will point out something bad that others have done including themself, admit they did it, and try to pretend it's a non issue. You aren't looking good right now.

[forbiddanlight]

Snix is at L-1? It looks to be the most likely lynch then.

Um, are there many objections to a hammer at this point? Is there really that much more to discuss?

[forbiddanlight]

Alright then!

Mostly, I want to make sure that there isn't any outstanding discussion. So, let me rephrase that. Don't condone the hammer, but tell me if we have any outstanding discussion that we want to get done? Mostly I got lynched as town the last time I was over eager to hammer, so I'd rather do it RIGHT this time.

[forbiddanlight]

I object. But go ahead, there doesn't seem to be any chance of things going my way today.

I'm pissed as well. I want sekinj's head. But I also acknowledge Snix is scummy as hell. You do NOT let go of caught scum. I hate to say it, but I guess we will deal with sekinj tomorrow.

So far three people say there is no outstanding discussion. I personally don't see any outstanding discussion. I'll give everyone...nyeh...6 hours? to object. Is that fair?

[forbiddanlight]

that's lovely... I guess you'll have to hope I live through the night so you can lynch me tomorrow...

Well, let me think. There are no power roles left. Second, since you are scum, you are immune to being killed by scum. Third, on the REALLY HUGE offchance you aren't scum, I highly doubt the scum would first take a chance you are on the opposing team and second give up a free mislynch.

That said

Unvote, HAMMAH! I mean Vote: Snix

[forbiddanlight]

Wc, you did catch my unvote before the HAMMAH!, right?

[forbiddanlight]

Hmm...

Well, as per yesterday,

Vote Eldritch Lord

. I want to lynch sekinj, but I also want to decrease the kills per night. Pretty sure that EL fits the second ice mafiate more than anything. sekinj is likely fire mafia.

[forbiddanlight]

Wow. OBV scum. EL is obv Ice scum with Snix, but we either lynch Fire Mafia today or lose. I see you are opting for option 2, and the only reasonable assumption is you are Fire scum pushing the "mis"lynch for the win.

Hmm? Wait...

I totally didn't work that out . I'm sorry, I forgot with the ice eliminated the fire are guaranteed a kill. I seriously didn't realize this.

In which case,

Unvote, Vote Sekinj

.

I don't really think that makes me scum so much as inattentive though, and trying to reduce NKs.

[forbiddanlight]

I am not going to vote until I am absolutely sure in my vote. It's kind of dangerous, with half the people being scum. If FL is town, then it's stupid for him to lay down the first vote, assuming sek isn't scum either (or at least not Ice Mafia), because the Fire could easily jump on it. That's assuming both fl and sek are town, which I don't think.

It may be hasty, but I'm very certain about sek. She bought herself a day by pointing us at snix. I'm grateful for the help, but now it's time to douse her fire.

Also...I
AM
A
GIRL!

[forbiddanlight]

Here's my take.

EL is ice scum.

It's either you or armlx and sekinj as the fire scum.

The trick is determining which. I'm leaning armlx because of his insistence on that other pair. It may be right, but it's also a good distraction from fire mafia.

[forbiddanlight]

Elaborate plz.

"SNIX AND EL ARE HORRIBLY CONNECTED" etc.

The focus was PURELY on another mafia rather than all the mafias. You wanted both their lynches, essentially, without a worry for the others. Today I come out the gate ready to kill EL because I wasn't paying attention to the situation. GREAT chance for you to look townie while making me look bad and lining up that last mislynch you were talking about. Odds are, if you thought you could get away with it, you'd be pushing EL too.

[forbiddanlight]

The focus was on 2 obv scum..... I don't see what you would be expecting different between townie and mafia in that scenario.

I'd expect a lot more effort to also try to find the other scum so we didn't end up in this situation.

But, honestly, I might have just been expelling OMGUS feelings at you. Right now, I'm pretty sure of sekinj. What I'm not sure of is who her partner is, to be honest. For all I know, it could be mayhem. I lean against it being OP actually, but that could change depending on how this lynch goes. I know it's not me, lol. and of course, EL/K7 are the other ice mafiate.

[forbiddanlight]

I'm pretty sure we were in this situation regardless yesterday if last night went down how it did. We had to hope for at least 1 of the kills to fail.

Hmm...you raise good points. I think basically I was using any justification to attack you because I disliked how you automatically assumed I was fire maf due to a mistake in calculation. So, I got pissed and tried to attack you. Happens sometimes. I still think sekinj needs to die.

[forbiddanlight]

Uhhhh....

Vote stands.

Figured. Though, if you ARE townie it will likely matter in taking down a fire mafia, which you would not accomplish by attempting to vote me.

[forbiddanlight]

Already with the appeal to emotion.

Ever noticed that I've used that regardless of alignment, and probably more often as town? It's one of the weakest justifications to attack me. It's actually a weak justification altogether. I'm being honest here about my reasons for attempting to attack you. I think it's better in the long run to be direct with the truth rather than lie about things. I've been known to engage in OMGUS as town. I usually try to rectify it as soon as I'm realizing I'm doing it. Given the reasons I brought up were incredibly weak and shot down with ease, I'm basically pretty sure that I screwed up.

[forbiddanlight]

@FL - you said you usually correct your OMGUS votes when you realize you are doing it... Well... I just thought I'd point out that you are attacking me mainly because you hated my case against you.... *hint hint*

Except that your case was also crap and it was scummy to put it forth as if it were actually a good case. Among OTHER things you and your predecessor have done. I'm not OMGUSing you.

[forbiddanlight]

You do realize how many AtEs you are using right now, right sekinj? They may be a null tell for the most part, but I actually am beginning to understand how annoying I get when I use them :S.

[forbiddanlight]

So what do you think of OP? quite the scumster huh?

Town for now, actually. Or Ice, but I'm PRETTY Sure that's EL. You are fire, and I don't think he'd risk taking you to two votes and causing the WIFOM of "Oh, she must be fire because she wasn't quicklynched ftw". And, also, that course of action forces him to stay on you to the bitter end without EPIC reasoning to switch.

[forbiddanlight]

Ah, thanks for reminding me of that. Let me slither out of that for today by saying I'm going to be V/LA all of today and tomorrow. Today because of a college halloween party and tomorrow because my sister has a wedding. Saturday should be easier, though uncertain. I will get it out though.

[forbiddanlight]

...

Well, thanks for that sekinj.

We have fire mafia confirmation.

Because she's not the other ice mafia.


I am.

Yes...

I AM THE OTHER ICE MAFIA!

. I was seeing if there was any way I could bring this game off otherwise, but apparently I'm not going to win. Might as well kill those fire bastards while I can.

CONFIRM VOTE SEKINJ!

Also, OP is likely the other fire maf.

[forbiddanlight]

Uhh....

I'm not actually sure who is better to vote here. More reread needed.

You'll notice I took a lot of effort to surreptitiously deflect suspicion from snix, actually. You'll note that the day you proposed EL Snix as a pair, I very pointedly tried to push EL and ignore the snix issue as much as possible. I was also later on the Snix wagon than most, hoping to get sekinj lynched first. I think my actions will show me to be far more befitting of ice mafia than sekinj's or her predecessors.

[forbiddanlight]

Wow...that's amazing in a way. I used SCUMTELLS to defend a claim :S...that's just surreal :S.

[forbiddanlight]

YOU ARE A LYING FIRE SCUMBAG!!! I KNEW IT. You ARE scum, but FIRE scum and now you are tryign to save your ass. What was all the crap about what a STUPID case I had!?!??! It turns out I was right! I knew that claim would bring scum out of the woodwork!

I'm really just a townie whoe replaced into a MESS that the town made, and was abl eto see the scum for who they are.

You caught scum alright. Ice scum. But it becomes a lot easier to scumhunt when you know someone else's alignment, eh?

who is the only person who has had any sort of scumdar THIS ENTIRE GAME?? yeah, that would be me. so, why would you trust FL?

I dunno, I caught you.

This is crap! Just look at OP, he fits the bill JUST AS WELL. He was late on the Snix wagon and pushed EL from the beginning. It's obvious that FL is just re-creating history in order to look like ice mafia.

Cite examples. You can't.

Unvote

That reclaim was actually my condition of unvote there. I expected scum to argue the NO I'M ICE angle over the standard auto-death of saying they were lying.

Time to actually think if FL is actually Ice or is lying Fire.

sekinj is lying. I think she didn't actually expect me to counterclaim ice. Rather, she expected someone else to. So she had to back out. And now she's trying to push my lynch for the fire win. Should be obvious.

In order to win we have to kill fire mafia today. I claimed ice as relatively safe, but shocking claim in order to flush the scum out since nothing was happening. FL countered saying SHE was ice. In reality, neither of us is ice. She is fire and I was just running a gambit. It worked since at least one ofthe scum tipped their hand. She is now trying to put forth evidence that she is ice mafia, but the problem is that her evidence fits OP just as well. So I think FL is a fire mafia, along with possibly m4yhem, and then maybe OP is the remaining ice... Or amix... I don't like how easily he was fooled / went along with FL at first...

Haha, yeah, right. Scumtell number 1 "IT WAS A TRAP/GAMBIT/WHATEVER"

FINE with my vote on this firey young lady. Never have I had the misfortune of seeing such bullshit in one post.

@arm - ... not sure I understand your logic. but if you ARE ice mafia.... (are we goign to have triple claim for that?? I've never seen so many players eager to claim mafia Razz) it would make more sense to go after FL. You know we are both lying, but my lie had the purpose of drawing out mafia and getting information, it was a scumhunting gambit, while FL's just had the purpose of trying to get someone else lynched. So obviously she is fire sucm trying to save her ass. I am just a townie with balls of steel Razz

More of the same. Nice try, but you've been caught. My counterclaim was probably the strongest one since if anyone BOTHERS to go through my previous actions, they will see a faint connection to Snix. Bad play on my part. And if I hear the word gambit one more time, I'll freaking target you for freezing tonight even after you die. (considering if I'm lynched there won't be a night)

Oh, almost certain OP is other fire. Take a look at who sekinj is pushing as the "real" ice scum.

[forbiddanlight]

If you REALLY thought I was fire mafia AND you REALLY are ice mafia, why would you say this? This shows that you know me for a townie and that you are fire trying to be ice! You probably had the ice mafia figured out for a while since your team's NK'd failed in the beginning.

No, actually, that's me being pissed. And actually, I think the guard did it. Your reaction is more improvised than something actually planned by you. You were expecting someone else to claim.

Examples: Just look at OP, he fits the bill JUST AS WELL. He was late on the Snix wagon and pushed EL from the beginning.

Saying it doesn't make it so. If the town buys this, I will personally vote myself for having to be around such stupid people.

You have been duping the town from the beginning. I really hope they won't fall for it again.

Yeah, I have been duping town from the beginning. Because I was mafia. Ice Mafia. Between yesterday and today though, I haven't been "duping town" except for my precise alignment. And today, I've even come out with that.

Isn't that citing examples in itself?

I don't quite understand this. Do you mean the fact she can't cite examples is an example? That makes no sense.

[forbiddanlight]

ER..huh? What is happening? You both claim to be Ice Mafia. Yet I am not supposed to unvote sekinj, so the town doesn't lose? I really don't see how this makes me scum. I really am confused at this point.

Actually, it's the connections that sekinj is forcing on you. I believe that she's giving you away in the hopes you counterclaim ice. But, your reaction makes me less sure of that. Hey...anyone wonder if K7 could be the other fire maf? That'd be interesting .

So sekinj claims scum, which "is a gambit" and fl counter-claims..a ..mafia claim? Really? I think forbiddan is scum. I thought there was a fl/sek scum team though. Maybe there is. But forbiddan just reacted weird.

You do realize for all intents and purposes, ice mafia is not scum, right? Of COURSE I'm going to counterclaim sekinj, to get a fire mafia lynched, drop us to 5 players (1 ice, 1 fire, 3 town), hope both of us shoot town, and get a tie. Alternatively, one of us (fire and ice) can attempt to shoot the other while I shoot one of the town and we give the town a prisoner's dilemma. Do they want a fire win or an ice win. But that's chancy .

People are just doing stupid things because the game is stagnating. I am not one of those people. Yet because other people are doing scummy things, that somehow brings me into the picture, because I want scum to win?

Um...no, I'm not doing stupid things. I'm doing the only LOGICAL thing when somebody claims Ice Mafia. I fully expect someone else to come in and counter claim. Cause if no one does, sekinj just hoist herself on her own petard. Following the K7 theory, she might actually have been expecting my claim because her buddy is K7, the one considered most likely to be ice mafia for much of the game. So, suppose K7 counterclaims me, how will any of you react?

Also, what's up with the question at the end, it doesn't fit and almost makes my feelings that you might be town go away.

[forbiddanlight]

Then i think we should automatically fall back on the old reliable of lynching the scummiest player each day: FL. She has been accusing me of being fire ever sicne I joined, BUT SHE HAS YET TO BRING FORTH THE EVIDENCE PROMISED. So, no one has shown anything scummy that I have done. Instead, I've found one ice scum for us, and cuased another scum to claim. I was on FL from the beginning. Yes, she was 4th on my los, but when i brought forth my casse SHE FREAKED OUT. The fact that she has been tryign to force the fire mafia role on me throughout the whole game shows that she is tryign to distance herself from that role. If she were REALLY ice, why would she make it so obvious by only going after people she suspects of being fire? (wifom, I know) but that doesn't sense. Instead I believe she wants to distance herself from that early on, so she was sing it to try to get a townie lynched.

I love how the fact that you are saying I freaked out when you cased me, and didn't even consider the fact this was BEFORE I claimed Ice mafia. So, anyone notice most of her arguments are as if I claimed townie, and null from a scum standpoint? I'm Ice mafia. And yes, it is WIFOM, and I might just be that blatant. And who needs evidence now? You've claimed fire mafia to me, since I know I'm ice.

I would prefer to think that I'm doing "risky" things since the game was stagnating. Really, I entered this game with the goal of seeing it to conclusion. It quickly was apparent that that wasn't going to happen unless I was willing to shake things up significantly. I agree that you are just goign on as youhave been. If you are townie, you obviously don't want scum to win. But we are in a pretty dicey situation. I believe your vote is in a good place because we need to get rid of 1 fire mafia in order to have a chance.

And you outted yourself as fire mafia. Good job.

I thought that maybe you were the other ice mafia, and when FL claimed, that suspicion didn't just go away. But this reaction makes me less sure and think mayb you are just a townie. Also, FL is claiming proof of herself being ice by her reaction to the Snix wagon, my point was that you seemed to do the same thing that she claimed she did. That nullifies her "proof" because You can't possibily BOTH be the one remaining ice mafai, but maybe neither of you are.

bullshit. It just means that OP was making the wrong moves in regards to snix. My proof still stands, far more than anything you've provided.

[forbiddanlight]

Sorry scumbag im town, so i wont counterclaim. but im not sure who out of you or sekinj is lying.

Ok, shoots that theory down. Sekinj no longer has a leg to stand on. Out of any ice mafia claimants, I most assuredly fit the bill the most. Though I'll entertain anybody ELSE who wants to claim.

And also, is it not obvious? sekinj ADMITTED she was lying. She's trying to pass it off as a gambit.

[forbiddanlight]

Ice mafia auto loses if they counter claim here, rather then having a corner case out to win. I dont see why they would.

Then I guess I screwed up. To be fair, the town is in dire enough straits so me and sek would both have to target the same person to prevent prisoner's dillema/mafia tie. And ice counterclaim first allows for a fire lynch, and second gives the ice a known town target. Fire would be foolish to target the same thing since town wins if they do. There won't be an ice counterclaim unless sekinj's buddy comes out.

I don't even know why they (whoever is ice) would claim when you and I [armlx and I] assumed EL was Snix's partner. I assumed sekinj and fl were the Fire Mafia. Maybe they are, and are trying to cast confusion? I just don't understand..any of the claims.

The problem with this is it forces town to decide between me and sekinj, and fire mafia would realize this is stupid since it prevents them from locking the game. I only claimed to counter sekinj's claim which boosted my certainty that she was fire.

The real Ice mafia has no reason to claim as the only scenario they win is lynch fire today, 0 kills tonight, and then somehow Fire is lynched tomorrow and not them final day, but if they claimed then they are lynch in a theoretical 3-1-1 tomorrow over anyone else, so....

Actually...1 kill tonight is optimal. It forces town to choose their fate and makes it a coinflip. 2 kill night, me and the fire decide to work together to lynch the townie, and we can't kill each other. Though I guess you could hope the townie votes, but that just ends up prisoner dilemma. 0 kill night screws ice over.

That makes sense, I guess. But if one is townie (which I think sek said her claim was a gambit, so ..she's town?), then they should probably say so more clearly. I think fl is fire mafia trying to pass off as ice mafia, so we don't lynch him today. So I am keeping my vote where it is right now.

HER! And no, I'm pretty sure you are going to screw the town over if you lynch me since guess what? Sekinj is ADMITTED lying citing a bullshit gambit. I've illustrated several good reasons ice should counterclaim, I think in this post.

[forbiddanlight]

Again, by claiming any actual Ice Mafiate would have thrown away any chance of winning the game. FL keeps ignoring this fact.

Well, it's not like I could win anyway. With me down to one there was practically no way to escape, and I couldn't have sekinj, my top for fire mafia, getting a by with her lie. Either way, I suppose I threw away any chance of winning the game, except for the whole fact that with 1 or 2 kills and a fire mafia lynch, town just ends up in a prisoner's dilemma CHOOSING the winner.

[forbiddanlight]

Why does sekinj have two votes? I'm a single voter.

And good job armlx.

Yanno what? You guys are idiots

Unvote, Vote forbiddanlight

Good game, fire scum!

Fixed.

[forbiddanlight]

..and add in the fact that I (and I think armlx did too) thought EL was Snix's partner, so you had a good chance of winning, fl, if you were ice. I don't buy the "i am ice, so I counter-claimed, because I had no chance of winning". You're fire. I am more inclined to believe sek's gambit claim for now, but it doesn't sit well with me, because the last time I saw a gambit played in a game, sekinj was in that one.

You ignore the fact I was the second most likely lynch candidate, btw.

[forbiddanlight]

unvote, vote: FL!!!!!!!!!!!!
unvote, vote: FL!!!!!!!!!!!!
unvote, vote: FL!!!!!!!!!!!!
unvote, vote: FL!!!!!!!!!!!!
unvote, vote: FL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Two votes.

Oh yeah.

Vote FL

Three votes

Why does sekinj have two votes? I'm a single voter.

And good job armlx.

Yanno what? You guys are idiots

Unvote, Vote forbiddanlight

Good game, fire scum!

Four votes, farside. I'm dead ICE FUCKING MAFIA!

[forbiddanlight]

I KNEW SEK WAS FIRE! As for armlx...I half suspected it, but wasn't certain. That vote on me gave me that impression, but too late.

Yes, I realize I was a bad sport at the end, but this game had gone on FAR past its expiration date. It needed to end, whether I won, lost, or tied. I don't plan to ever do that again (self hammer at lylo), but really, this game was boring as hell at the end. I was having a lot of fun for the first 3 days and then it just kinda died. Course, maybe I should have waited, since Cephrir replacing M4 would pretty much be like "I WANNA LYNCH SEK RARGH!"

[forbiddanlight]

sorry about the vote mess up. I just walked into this trying to help take over. I don't know how I missed sek's vote there. Just a bit busy.
Sorry I don't have people's night choices.

The only one that's a mystery is D1 .

[forbiddanlight]

EBWOP: And I highly suspect sekinj or armlx targetted Snix. Notice Armlx d3 pushing snix HARD when he though he had enough of a case.

[forbiddanlight]

Nope. The missing kill was due to a correct protect on Ged, which I played out in my D2 case.

Ah. Gotcha. Still, surprised you didn't secure my lynch the easy way with third ice claim. I still don't think your points that ice claiming was suicidal work out very well, at least in my case. You first assume optimal play, and second, you assume that the ice mafia in question wasn't risking lynch ANYWAY.

[forbiddanlight]

The 3rd Ice claim could have lead to a Sekinj lynch, and for all I knew (and was close to assuming due to the logic about no real Ice would claim) you were townie and that would lead to a 4th Ice claim.

Nope, I just basically figured today I'd end up claiming ice and tried to avoid it if I had to. I knew at that point sekinj was scum, and thusly counterclaimed her in my excitement. I still had win scenarios as I explained, they were just drastically reduced.

[forbiddanlight]

The town choosing who wins scenario isn't really optimal, as if I was town I would just say "Screw you both" and self vote and refuse to lynch either, leading to no one wins.

Actually, it'd be a tie between the mafia. I'd settle for a tie.

Can't say I'm surprised with the outcome, even though I was rooting for Ice the whole game.

Aww, that was nice. Yeah, I might have been able to swing that lynch sekinj's way when Cephrir got back in, but I was just too fatigued with this game.

[forbiddanlight]

Good riddance.

Yeah, good job contributing to the fire win *big thumbs up*

(waits for tomatoes and cries of hypocrisy)

[forbiddanlight]

I thought you and sekinj were the Fire Mafia. I wish I had just kept my vote on her. But your Ice Claim did look bad. At that point, I subconciously cleared armlx from being scum, so I didn't suspect him anymore, big mistake, but I was so sure that you and Sek were scum. i was right, I suppose, but..eh.

I meant 'good riddance' that they game is over finally. The game has lasted almost as long as my membership here, and so it's relieving to have this finally be over. Actually, I am glad the game didn't get abandoned, more than anything. I think armlx did a good job as fire mafia, so he won it for them, moreso, than I lost it for them. It would've helped if the rest of the town were active though. =[

I know, I was joking with you in my last post (hence the tomatoes/hypocrisy comment). You really SHOULD have stayed on sek. Seriously NO ONE should have believed her "OMG IT WAZ A GAMBIT" thing. And I'm happy it's over as well. armlx did a good job, and I was actually thinking of making him my kill if I survived the day. Which would have been interesting, to say the least.

[forbiddanlight]

Thanks for giving it up FL Wink i hope you don't actually hate me or want my head or want to screw me Razz

I dunno, I am a lesbian you know. And you've proven yourself to be quite a bitch. I wonder if you can take that command into the bedroom .

But, I kid. You do have to fix your siggy though.

Then I just spouted as much nonsense as I could think of. I don't even think half of what I said made sense.

It didn't. the town (that was at least playing, anyway), was moronic to believe you, but it was forgiveable because the game was tedious.

Also, as armlx started pushing his "why ice would be stupid to claim", I started leaning towards him being the other fire, but didn't push it since I had two unknown quantities to worry about.

Least the goody two-shoes didn't win.

That's true. Sorry I had to move with the bus on D4. We might have stood a chance had sekinj died that day like I was HOPING. Still, at least I was right about her. And Cephrir was right about her the whole time!

[forbiddanlight]

Ouch.

Not unwarrented, but still. I do intend to stop Modding until my obligations settle down... But after that, I do have a setup for a Large Normal planned.

Still shock at the fact you are a guy. I TOTALLY remember there being a girl symbol by your name!

[forbiddanlight]

You have no idea....

Then are you good with rope, riding crops, and interesting arrangements of toys? As well as creative at tasks that anyone can fail for punishment ^-^?

better?

Oh, and I liked your kitty cat avatar better

Nyeh, the kitty was cute, but I like this avi at the moment since it applies to so many situations .

[forbiddanlight]

You need to ask? Maybe we shoudl take this to PM..... Razz

Haha, maybe so .

[forbiddanlight]

I'm pretty certain I've been male for years and years now...

It's probably the avatar/username/favorite color combo. :/

Entirely possible, though I TRY to overlook such stereotypes. Guess I fail sometimes ^-^;. Sorry for all the times I called you she .

[forbiddanlight]

this game took way too long to finish after i died. statistical proof that days take longer once i am dead.

But of course. We either quicklynch you to shut you up or we lynch your target and hope your "right eventually" is then, ALSO to shut you up .

[forbiddanlight]

so, ice is obv capulet, making sekinj juliet to forb's romeo

Why do I have to be Romeo! I dun wanna be! I wanna be Juliet!