Open 84 - Fire and Ice Mafia - Game Over!

[forbiddanlight]

YOU ARE A LYING FIRE SCUMBAG!!! I KNEW IT. You ARE scum, but FIRE scum and now you are tryign to save your ass. What was all the crap about what a STUPID case I had!?!??! It turns out I was right! I knew that claim would bring scum out of the woodwork!

I'm really just a townie whoe replaced into a MESS that the town made, and was abl eto see the scum for who they are.

You caught scum alright. Ice scum. But it becomes a lot easier to scumhunt when you know someone else's alignment, eh?

who is the only person who has had any sort of scumdar THIS ENTIRE GAME?? yeah, that would be me. so, why would you trust FL?

I dunno, I caught you.

This is crap! Just look at OP, he fits the bill JUST AS WELL. He was late on the Snix wagon and pushed EL from the beginning. It's obvious that FL is just re-creating history in order to look like ice mafia.

Cite examples. You can't.

Unvote

That reclaim was actually my condition of unvote there. I expected scum to argue the NO I'M ICE angle over the standard auto-death of saying they were lying.

Time to actually think if FL is actually Ice or is lying Fire.

sekinj is lying. I think she didn't actually expect me to counterclaim ice. Rather, she expected someone else to. So she had to back out. And now she's trying to push my lynch for the fire win. Should be obvious.

In order to win we have to kill fire mafia today. I claimed ice as relatively safe, but shocking claim in order to flush the scum out since nothing was happening. FL countered saying SHE was ice. In reality, neither of us is ice. She is fire and I was just running a gambit. It worked since at least one ofthe scum tipped their hand. She is now trying to put forth evidence that she is ice mafia, but the problem is that her evidence fits OP just as well. So I think FL is a fire mafia, along with possibly m4yhem, and then maybe OP is the remaining ice... Or amix... I don't like how easily he was fooled / went along with FL at first...

Haha, yeah, right. Scumtell number 1 "IT WAS A TRAP/GAMBIT/WHATEVER"

FINE with my vote on this firey young lady. Never have I had the misfortune of seeing such bullshit in one post.

@arm - ... not sure I understand your logic. but if you ARE ice mafia.... (are we goign to have triple claim for that?? I've never seen so many players eager to claim mafia Razz) it would make more sense to go after FL. You know we are both lying, but my lie had the purpose of drawing out mafia and getting information, it was a scumhunting gambit, while FL's just had the purpose of trying to get someone else lynched. So obviously she is fire sucm trying to save her ass. I am just a townie with balls of steel Razz

More of the same. Nice try, but you've been caught. My counterclaim was probably the strongest one since if anyone BOTHERS to go through my previous actions, they will see a faint connection to Snix. Bad play on my part. And if I hear the word gambit one more time, I'll freaking target you for freezing tonight even after you die. (considering if I'm lynched there won't be a night)

Oh, almost certain OP is other fire. Take a look at who sekinj is pushing as the "real" ice scum.

[armlx]

Cite examples. You can't.

Isn't that citing examples in itself?

[sekinj]

@FL -

gambit gambit gambit gambit gambit

Examples: Just look at OP, he fits the bill JUST AS WELL. He was late on the Snix wagon and pushed EL from the beginning.

You have been duping the town from the beginning. I really hope they won't fall for it again.

[sekinj]

[quote"forbiddanlight"] I'll freaking target you for freezing tonight even after you die.[/quote]

If you REALLY thought I was fire mafia

AND

you REALLY are ice mafia, why would you say this? This shows that you know me for a townie and that you are fire trying to be ice! You probably had the ice mafia figured out for a while since your team's NK'd failed in the beginning.

[forbiddanlight]

If you REALLY thought I was fire mafia AND you REALLY are ice mafia, why would you say this? This shows that you know me for a townie and that you are fire trying to be ice! You probably had the ice mafia figured out for a while since your team's NK'd failed in the beginning.

No, actually, that's me being pissed. And actually, I think the guard did it. Your reaction is more improvised than something actually planned by you. You were expecting someone else to claim.

Examples: Just look at OP, he fits the bill JUST AS WELL. He was late on the Snix wagon and pushed EL from the beginning.

Saying it doesn't make it so. If the town buys this, I will personally vote myself for having to be around such stupid people.

You have been duping the town from the beginning. I really hope they won't fall for it again.

Yeah, I have been duping town from the beginning. Because I was mafia. Ice Mafia. Between yesterday and today though, I haven't been "duping town" except for my precise alignment. And today, I've even come out with that.

Isn't that citing examples in itself?

I don't quite understand this. Do you mean the fact she can't cite examples is an example? That makes no sense.

[orangepenguin]

ER..huh? What is happening? You both claim to be Ice Mafia. Yet I am not supposed to unvote sekinj, so the town doesn't lose? I really don't see how this makes me scum. I really am confused at this point.

So sekinj claims scum, which "is a gambit" and fl counter-claims..a ..mafia claim? Really? I think forbiddan is scum. I thought there was a fl/sek scum team though. Maybe there is. But forbiddan just reacted weird.


People are just doing stupid things because the game is stagnating. I am not one of those people. Yet because other people are doing scummy things, that somehow brings me into the picture, because I want scum to win?

Ugh.

[forbiddanlight]

ER..huh? What is happening? You both claim to be Ice Mafia. Yet I am not supposed to unvote sekinj, so the town doesn't lose? I really don't see how this makes me scum. I really am confused at this point.

Actually, it's the connections that sekinj is forcing on you. I believe that she's giving you away in the hopes you counterclaim ice. But, your reaction makes me less sure of that. Hey...anyone wonder if K7 could be the other fire maf? That'd be interesting .

So sekinj claims scum, which "is a gambit" and fl counter-claims..a ..mafia claim? Really? I think forbiddan is scum. I thought there was a fl/sek scum team though. Maybe there is. But forbiddan just reacted weird.

You do realize for all intents and purposes, ice mafia is not scum, right? Of COURSE I'm going to counterclaim sekinj, to get a fire mafia lynched, drop us to 5 players (1 ice, 1 fire, 3 town), hope both of us shoot town, and get a tie. Alternatively, one of us (fire and ice) can attempt to shoot the other while I shoot one of the town and we give the town a prisoner's dilemma. Do they want a fire win or an ice win. But that's chancy .

People are just doing stupid things because the game is stagnating. I am not one of those people. Yet because other people are doing scummy things, that somehow brings me into the picture, because I want scum to win?

Um...no, I'm not doing stupid things. I'm doing the only LOGICAL thing when somebody claims Ice Mafia. I fully expect someone else to come in and counter claim. Cause if no one does, sekinj just hoist herself on her own petard. Following the K7 theory, she might actually have been expecting my claim because her buddy is K7, the one considered most likely to be ice mafia for much of the game. So, suppose K7 counterclaims me, how will any of you react?

Also, what's up with the question at the end, it doesn't fit and almost makes my feelings that you might be town go away.

[sekinj]

ER..huh? What is happening? You both claim to be Ice Mafia. Yet I am not supposed to unvote sekinj, so the town doesn't lose? I really don't see how this makes me scum. I really am confused at this point.

I thought that maybe you were the other ice mafia, and when FL claimed, that suspicion didn't just go away. But this reaction makes me less sure and think mayb you are just a townie. Also, FL is claiming proof of herself being ice by her reaction to the Snix wagon, my point was that you seemed to do the same thing that she claimed she did. That nullifies her "proof" because You can't possibily BOTH be the one remaining ice mafai, but maybe neither of you are.

So sekinj claims scum, which "is a gambit" and fl counter-claims..a ..mafia claim? Really? I think forbiddan is scum. I thought there was a fl/sek scum team though. Maybe there is. But forbiddan just reacted weird.

Then i think we should automatically fall back on the old reliable of lynching the scummiest player each day: FL. She has been accusing me of being fire ever sicne I joined, BUT SHE HAS YET TO BRING FORTH THE EVIDENCE PROMISED. So, no one has shown anything scummy that I have done. Instead, I've found one ice scum for us, and cuased another scum to claim. I was on FL from the beginning. Yes, she was 4th on my los, but when i brought forth my casse SHE FREAKED OUT. The fact that she has been tryign to force the fire mafia role on me throughout the whole game shows that she is tryign to distance herself from that role. If she were REALLY ice, why would she make it so obvious by only going after people she suspects of being fire? (wifom, I know) but that doesn't sense. Instead I believe she wants to distance herself from that early on, so she was sing it to try to get a townie lynched.

People are just doing stupid things because the game is stagnating. I am not one of those people. Yet because other people are doing scummy things, that somehow brings me into the picture, because I want scum to win?

I would prefer to think that I'm doing "risky" things since the game was stagnating. Really, I entered this game with the goal of seeing it to conclusion. It quickly was apparent that that wasn't going to happen unless I was willing to shake things up significantly. I agree that you are just goign on as youhave been. If you are townie, you obviously don't want scum to win. But we are in a pretty dicey situation. I believe your vote is in a good place because we need to get rid of 1 fire mafia in order to have a chance.

Ugh.

QFT

[forbiddanlight]

Then i think we should automatically fall back on the old reliable of lynching the scummiest player each day: FL. She has been accusing me of being fire ever sicne I joined, BUT SHE HAS YET TO BRING FORTH THE EVIDENCE PROMISED. So, no one has shown anything scummy that I have done. Instead, I've found one ice scum for us, and cuased another scum to claim. I was on FL from the beginning. Yes, she was 4th on my los, but when i brought forth my casse SHE FREAKED OUT. The fact that she has been tryign to force the fire mafia role on me throughout the whole game shows that she is tryign to distance herself from that role. If she were REALLY ice, why would she make it so obvious by only going after people she suspects of being fire? (wifom, I know) but that doesn't sense. Instead I believe she wants to distance herself from that early on, so she was sing it to try to get a townie lynched.

I love how the fact that you are saying I freaked out when you cased me, and didn't even consider the fact this was BEFORE I claimed Ice mafia. So, anyone notice most of her arguments are as if I claimed townie, and null from a scum standpoint? I'm Ice mafia. And yes, it is WIFOM, and I might just be that blatant. And who needs evidence now? You've claimed fire mafia to me, since I know I'm ice.

I would prefer to think that I'm doing "risky" things since the game was stagnating. Really, I entered this game with the goal of seeing it to conclusion. It quickly was apparent that that wasn't going to happen unless I was willing to shake things up significantly. I agree that you are just goign on as youhave been. If you are townie, you obviously don't want scum to win. But we are in a pretty dicey situation. I believe your vote is in a good place because we need to get rid of 1 fire mafia in order to have a chance.

And you outted yourself as fire mafia. Good job.

I thought that maybe you were the other ice mafia, and when FL claimed, that suspicion didn't just go away. But this reaction makes me less sure and think mayb you are just a townie. Also, FL is claiming proof of herself being ice by her reaction to the Snix wagon, my point was that you seemed to do the same thing that she claimed she did. That nullifies her "proof" because You can't possibily BOTH be the one remaining ice mafai, but maybe neither of you are.

bullshit. It just means that OP was making the wrong moves in regards to snix. My proof still stands, far more than anything you've provided.

[sekinj]

can we get a prod on m4yhem?

K7 posted yesterday, but I sure hope he checks back soon and weighs in. I'd like to get some other people's opinion in here instead of just going around in circles.

[killa seven]

Um...no, I'm not doing stupid things. I'm doing the only LOGICAL thing when somebody claims Ice Mafia. I fully expect someone else to come in and counter claim. Cause if no one does, sekinj just hoist herself on her own petard. Following the K7 theory, she might actually have been expecting my claim because her buddy is K7, the one considered most likely to be ice mafia for much of the game. So, suppose K7 counterclaims me, how will any of you react?

Also, what's up with the question at the end, it doesn't fit and almost makes my feelings that you might be town go away.

Sorry scumbag im town, so i wont counterclaim. but im not sure who out of you or sekinj is lying.

[forbiddanlight]

Sorry scumbag im town, so i wont counterclaim. but im not sure who out of you or sekinj is lying.

Ok, shoots that theory down. Sekinj no longer has a leg to stand on. Out of any ice mafia claimants, I most assuredly fit the bill the most. Though I'll entertain anybody ELSE who wants to claim.

And also, is it not obvious? sekinj ADMITTED she was lying. She's trying to pass it off as a gambit.

[armlx]

Ice mafia auto loses if they counter claim here, rather then having a corner case out to win. I dont see why they would.

[orangepenguin]

I don't even know why they (whoever is ice) would claim when you and I [armlx and I] assumed EL was Snix's partner. I assumed sekinj and fl were the Fire Mafia. Maybe they are, and are trying to cast confusion? I just don't understand..any of the claims.

[armlx]

I don't even know why they (whoever is ice) would claim when you and I [armlx and I] assumed EL was Snix's partner. I assumed sekinj and fl were the Fire Mafia. Maybe they are, and are trying to cast confusion? I just don't understand..any of the claims.

The real Ice mafia has no reason to claim as the only scenario they win is lynch fire today, 0 kills tonight, and then somehow Fire is lynched tomorrow and not them final day, but if they claimed then they are lynch in a theoretical 3-1-1 tomorrow over anyone else, so....

[orangepenguin]

Are you saying both sek and fl are not Ice? If so, do you think they're Fire Mafia?

[armlx]

Are you saying both sek and fl are not Ice? If so, do you think they're Fire Mafia?

I think 1 is and 1 is a townie.

[orangepenguin]

That makes sense, I guess. But if one is townie (which I think sek said her claim was a gambit, so ..she's town?), then they should probably say so more clearly. I think fl is fire mafia trying to pass off as ice mafia, so we don't lynch him today. So I am keeping my vote where it is right now.

[forbiddanlight]

Ice mafia auto loses if they counter claim here, rather then having a corner case out to win. I dont see why they would.

Then I guess I screwed up. To be fair, the town is in dire enough straits so me and sek would both have to target the same person to prevent prisoner's dillema/mafia tie. And ice counterclaim first allows for a fire lynch, and second gives the ice a known town target. Fire would be foolish to target the same thing since town wins if they do. There won't be an ice counterclaim unless sekinj's buddy comes out.

I don't even know why they (whoever is ice) would claim when you and I [armlx and I] assumed EL was Snix's partner. I assumed sekinj and fl were the Fire Mafia. Maybe they are, and are trying to cast confusion? I just don't understand..any of the claims.

The problem with this is it forces town to decide between me and sekinj, and fire mafia would realize this is stupid since it prevents them from locking the game. I only claimed to counter sekinj's claim which boosted my certainty that she was fire.

The real Ice mafia has no reason to claim as the only scenario they win is lynch fire today, 0 kills tonight, and then somehow Fire is lynched tomorrow and not them final day, but if they claimed then they are lynch in a theoretical 3-1-1 tomorrow over anyone else, so....

Actually...1 kill tonight is optimal. It forces town to choose their fate and makes it a coinflip. 2 kill night, me and the fire decide to work together to lynch the townie, and we can't kill each other. Though I guess you could hope the townie votes, but that just ends up prisoner dilemma. 0 kill night screws ice over.

That makes sense, I guess. But if one is townie (which I think sek said her claim was a gambit, so ..she's town?), then they should probably say so more clearly. I think fl is fire mafia trying to pass off as ice mafia, so we don't lynch him today. So I am keeping my vote where it is right now.

HER! And no, I'm pretty sure you are going to screw the town over if you lynch me since guess what? Sekinj is ADMITTED lying citing a bullshit gambit. I've illustrated several good reasons ice should counterclaim, I think in this post.

[sekinj]

That makes sense, I guess. But if one is townie (which I think sek said her claim was a gambit, so ..she's town?), then they should probably say so more clearly. I think fl is fire mafia trying to pass off as ice mafia, so we don't lynch him today. So I am keeping my vote where it is right now.

I have said so, several times... but mabye it gots lost in long posts... but Yes.

I am really town.

[sekinj]

sekinj is ADMITTED lying citing a bullshit gambit.

Lynch all Liers is a very tired and old dogma. Yes, I lied, and I'm not afraid to admit it because it caused the real mafia to claim. I don't see how my play has been anti-town in the slightest. I've made a total of 2 cases, both on mafia. One we got lynched yesterday and have cornered the other today. I'd say that was a pretty good gambit (even if I say so myself )

[armlx]

That makes sense, I guess. But if one is townie (which I think sek said her claim was a gambit, so ..she's town?), then they should probably say so more clearly. I think fl is fire mafia trying to pass off as ice mafia, so we don't lynch him today. So I am keeping my vote where it is right now.

Yeah, that's where we are at now.

Again, by claiming any actual Ice Mafiate would have thrown away any chance of winning the game. FL keeps ignoring this fact.

[forbiddanlight]

Again, by claiming any actual Ice Mafiate would have thrown away any chance of winning the game. FL keeps ignoring this fact.

Well, it's not like I could win anyway. With me down to one there was practically no way to escape, and I couldn't have sekinj, my top for fire mafia, getting a by with her lie. Either way, I suppose I threw away any chance of winning the game, except for the whole fact that with 1 or 2 kills and a fire mafia lynch, town just ends up in a prisoner's dilemma CHOOSING the winner.

[sekinj]

The make a fire case on me FL... I dare you. I've asked for it over and over again, and you have promised it... I'm still waiting.

[armlx]

Again, FL, a correct lynch today + no kills tonight = chance for Ice win. I don't think any Ice mafiate would throw away that out for no reason.