Mini 693 - Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Mafia (OVER)

[SilverPhoenix]

Random.org chooses.......

Vote: ooba

!!!!!

[SilverPhoenix]

...okay.
...really?
...okay.

[SilverPhoenix]

EBWOP: Anybody notice MafiaSSK got banished?

Oh dear, I thought you meant literally from the forums. That is indeed true. Can he post, I wonder?

[SilverPhoenix]

Notice that MafiaSSK cannot vote or be voted for....strange....

I'm looking into OoT lore right now.....
Hrm. Banished is an odd word. Almost any other word, and I would think that MafiaSSK is Link. But he wasn't exactly banished when he got the Master Sword....just frozen. Ganondorf was trapped there at the end of the game. BUT, that is in the future, not the past. Rauru was also there, I think. But he's a sage, so I don't think "banished" is the right word for his stay there either.

I think I'm looking too hard into this.

[SilverPhoenix]

Also, before anyone asks: there is no error on the Zeroth Vote Count or on the current player list. - Tar

That confirms it. MafiaSSK really can't be vote or be voted for. What does everyone think about this? Maybe it is his role? Maybe someone did this to him?

[SilverPhoenix]

Could MafiaSSK possibly be Ganon?

Eh, Ganon is described as the true manifestation of Ganondorf's heart, so I don't think so. He might be Link, but I'm not sure. :/
http://zelda.wikia.com
Wealth of info there, btw.

[SilverPhoenix]

OH GREAT MAFIASSK, I BOW TO YE! GIVE ME YOUR DARK POWER, MY LIEGE!

Post restriction? Is it normal for a person's only two posts to be on different pages and implicative of scum?

[SilverPhoenix]

EBWOP: They are also both the second reply of discussion (if you don't count the mod stuff at the beginning).

[SilverPhoenix]

For Mafiassk, we have to look through characters from the game and see who was banished (from the beginning) or are banished throughout the course of the game.

Like I said, Ganondorf was banished at the end of the game (what the Sages did to him), and Link was locked in the realm when he first got the Master Sword. MafiaSSK might not be there as a result of his character, but as the result of someone else. I'm not completely sure.

[SilverPhoenix]

CoheedCambria and SilverPhoenix: What do you think about this?

As we can't even vote for him, you are right. We must wait until he can play.

....well....

[SilverPhoenix]

To me it seems that SilverPhoenix (SP) is rolefishing. First, he is looking which character SSK can be. But also, he is asking about roles (see post 23).
Also for what do we have to wait (post 40)? I don't understand what you're trying to say there.
FoS SilverPhoenix

Considering that SSK can't obviously talk, how is that rolefishing? It isn't rolefishing if the guy can't speak for himself, but it is speculation (much different than fishing). If he didn't like what I was saying, he would have voted me (as it does look like he can vote, just not be voted for). Post 23 was in reference to SSK, not anyone else, and Post 40 was me dropping the issue, as I realized we won't know anything until MafiaSSK

can

speak.

[SilverPhoenix]

Why do you want him to talk? Asking which character he is? If it was his role ability? If he perhaps knows who did this to him if it wasn't him?

Because he can't talk, why would anyone know exactly what is role is? At this point, nobody that is able to talk can tell me

exactly

his role (scum can tell whether they are mafia or not, however), so what I am doing

is not rolefishing, merely speculation

. At the time, it was only conversation going on, so I speculated over his role, coming to the conclusion that we

can't

determine it without him talking.

That is very different than actually

wanting

him to talk about his role.

I could care less if he wanted to tell me his role, as I never asked him directly to state his role when he could speak. The only people at this time that could have offered me information about his role are scum, so I don't see how speculating now would have been a bad thing

in this case.

In other cases of speculation, it is correct to assume suspicion as it doesn't help the town giving the scum a scapegoat etc (what iLord said in Post 50).

[SilverPhoenix]

Why is it useful for town, to look into SSK's banishment? ...
I asked the question again what do you want to know from SSK

Because I was curious? I don't know, the game was going slowly, as both CC09 and I said. malthusis in Post 13 pointed out SSK, and since there was barely any discussion at that point, I did what I could, speculating that SSK could be a couple of roles due to the OoT lore.

I'm getting the feeling that you want to know his role.

...That is very different than actually wanting him to talk about his role.

I could care less if he wanted to tell me his role.

That is your answer. What do I want to know about SSK? Nothing now, as I deemed it futile as he can't talk. As I have said three times.

As we can't even vote for him, you are right. We must wait until he can play.

as I realized we won't know anything until MafiaSSK can speak.

coming to the conclusion that we can't determine it without him talking.

Speculating is never good. I already showed this in my previous post. Scum will help catching the role if the ability is from a pro-town player, and scum will send you in the 'right direction' if the ability is from scum.

Did you get what I said before? The only people that can drop hints at

this very moment in this game

only are scum. If anyone did accidentally drop a hint, they would be scum. Otherwise, I would agree that speculating about the game is a bad idea is both gives the scum ideas and possibly can confuse the town. Except possibly in a open/semi-open setup, of course. Nevertheless, just using "Speculating is scummy" as an argument without a game-by-game analysis is as bad as saying "his meta makes his current playing scummy" without a game-by-game analysis.

I feel like we keep repeating the same stuff back and forth.

[SilverPhoenix]

Pesco, why are you still having your random vote, while FoSing CC09 and me? When I FoS, that's a sign of 'I'm suspecting you, but I see someone else as scummier'. Please explain why you don't vote one of the players who you have FoS'ed.

Why did you FoS me for rolefishing, while others are doing the same?

Speculating is never good. I already showed this in my previous post. Scum will help catching the role if the ability is from a pro-town player, and scum will send you in the 'right direction' if the ability is from scum.

That is where the contradiction comes from. What I was doing before is the same as what you were doing just now. The point is I don't find it scummy, but you did, yet you used it anyway. Scum generally are the ones to contradict their own strategies in a game. A

FoS: ZazieR

for now.

[SilverPhoenix]

I don't really like SilverPhoenix trying to use this "contradiction" as evidence to back his nomcommital stand on this possible wagon.

I'm noncommital because there is barely anything there, just like the accusations based on my speculation barely have a base. There is absolutely no reason for me to "commit" a vote on a bare case, especially at this early point in the game. It is a slight suspicion, (hence the FoS), and not much more, possibly a part of a case later on, but not enough for a vote right now.

Unvote

because it looks like we are actually putting value into votes now.

And I wouldn't say ZazieR is a possible wagon by any means. Only one vote? Seriously...

[SilverPhoenix]

I'm noncommital because there is barely anything there, just like the accusations based on my speculation barely have a base. There is absolutely no reason for me to "commit" a vote on a bare case, especially at this early point in the game. It is a slight suspicion, (hence the FoS), and not much more, possibly a part of a case later on, but not enough for a vote right now. Unvote because it looks like we are actually putting value into votes now.

And I wouldn't say ZazieR is a possible wagon by any means. Only one vote? Seriously...

Let's take a look at your post:

That is where the contradiction comes from. What I was doing before is the same as what you were doing just now. The point is I don't find it scummy, but you did, yet you used it anyway. Scum generally are the ones to contradict their own strategies in a game. A FoS: ZazieR for now.

First of all, you attempt to use Zas's action to defende yourself without fullying understanding or stating why Zas's action is scummy - it's different from the one you imply by stating the "contradiction."

"A FOS: ZasieR for now"

"For now" - ready to spring on if a wagon develops.

Alternatively, you can also spring off if this wagon fails, demonstrating how noncommittal your attack is.

First, I never said I

wasn't

noncommittal. You definitely missed the point I made in the post you quoted.
Second, I don't particularly find what he was asking of SSK really scummy, but I find the contradiction that he makes with his past position sort of scummy. It's the kind of tell that you incorporate into a larger case down the road to see if he repeats his flip-floppiness or if he does other scummy things, but certainly not the kind of tell that I would vote for.

So yes, I am being noncommittal, because there isn't much substance in the case. You could argue that cases this early don't need much substance, but they are all still diving boards for the larger cases down the road that catch scum. This diving board is just a little small for me.

[SilverPhoenix]

I've made a re-read. Before I post my thoughts , it would help if everyone can answer this question:

On a scale of 1-10,
with 1 being "What is Zelda?"
and 5 being "I know the entire story,overall theme of Ocarnia of time"
and 10 being "I know all the character bios and even know the dialogs backwards"

where would you fall?

9ish.

[SilverPhoenix]

@Mod: You left out ZazieR in the FoS count. Otherwise, you're doing a good job.

[SilverPhoenix]

SP, did you understand Pesco's post?
Since you know a lot about it?

I didn't catch it either. I'm relooking over ZazieR's post right now, because I don't see the slip on malthusis' end.

[SilverPhoenix]

SP, did you understand Pesco's post?
Since you know a lot about it?

I didn't catch it either. I'm relooking over ZazieR's post right now, because I don't see the slip on malthusis' end.

I still don't see it. The only connection I see is that malthusis saying he can double-vote reveals his role (obviously). That could make his character loud...still dunno.

[SilverPhoenix]

I think it's the fact that Twinrova--an obviously anti-town character--is an obvious choice for the double vote.

I don't believe this, though.

/facepalm
I agree with this. Of course, not sure if I believe that either. If that is the case, he would not have wanted to vote at all without us making conclusions about his role. So I probably don't believe it.

[SilverPhoenix]

Proxy: iLord

for sake of a lynch.

What did you mean by Proxy, I honestly dont know:(

Whatever vote iLord makes, Natirasha makes as well automatically. Not sure why he's doing it, as usually you do it when you go V/LA or something.

[SilverPhoenix]

Proxy: iLord

for sake of a lynch.

What did you mean by Proxy, I honestly dont know:(

Whatever vote iLord makes, Natirasha makes as well automatically. Not sure why he's doing it, as usually you do it when you go V/LA or something.

Wrong. It's simple, really, I have an ability called Proxy that I must call out in-thread.

I see no reason to tell you what it does yet, though.

Oh.
This is going to be one interesting game.

[SilverPhoenix]

@Pesco: If I name claim, I shall literally die tonight (and if I lie, you'll lynch me anyways because of it).

/facepalm

Indeed. I see no point in saying that, as a simple refusal simply works.

Vote: Pesco47

for pretty much making malthusis kill himself.
I'll try and get a reread tomorrow. My vote may change, but for now this is good.

[SilverPhoenix]

Mod, I am proxying my vote to iLord.

No, you're not, for two very obvious reasons. - Tar

Maybe I mirepresented what I meant.

Until I have constant access again, with no V/LA, I want iLord to control my vote.

OK, if you are actually proxying your vote now, what was this conversation about before?

Proxy: iLord

for sake of a lynch.

What did you mean by Proxy, I honestly dont know:(

Whatever vote iLord makes, Natirasha makes as well automatically. Not sure why he's doing it, as usually you do it when you go V/LA or something.

Wrong. It's simple, really, I have an ability called Proxy that I must call out in-thread.

I see no reason to tell you what it does yet, though.

What's up with that confusion? As obviously you actually meant that you are proxying your lynch vote to iLord. I don't find a difference between what you were trying to do then compared to now, and I find that somewhat suspicious.

FoS: Natirasha

[SilverPhoenix]

Unvote, Vote: CoheedCambria09

For the good of town! Yeah!....
We'll see how this goes....

[SilverPhoenix]

FOS: SP

Reading really scummy.

Everybody needs to unvote Pesco unless he is counterclaimed.

We don't want to no lynch tommorrow. UNVOTE your votes!

You're a good man

I'm just doing what

you

suggested. I guess I won't do that again. <_< (BTW I was being sarcastic with the ellipsises)

Would unvote Coheed if it weren't for the deadline.

OK, I guess I get to apply what I just said above, considering that you simply have no clue what you want at all. You can't want a lynch close to deadline AND suspect people for actually lynching them. And don't say all I had to do was unvote Pesco, as it would have been the same as voting for Coheed (he would have gotten lynched at deadline).
I wouldn't have voted Coheed if weren't for the deadline. I don't know why you think it is scummy for someone to do what you, as a townie, suggest

[SilverPhoenix]

You claimed "maybe I'm a miller" was a standard response. I have never seen that used (i'll admit its may have been used in games ive not been in) and I've never used it. Therefore IT'S NOT STANDARD.

I can think of a few explanations that wouldn't even relate to relevant Role info i would have been given, and those are, he's not sane/the mask isn't trust worthy or I'm a miller (possibly just in the past, or maybe at all times.)

What a direct contradiction. Tell me exactly what you mean by your earlier comment.

EBWOP: To actaully answer your question, ZONEACE is thinking ZONEACE is scum

Interesting role. I'm not sure exactly to trust it or not...yet.

As no one else has counter claimed to be Link I think that is solid. My vote stands for the time being but how why would the mask of truth say you are scum?

Besides MafiaSSK, you mean, right? It is certainly plausible that he is Link.

Well, frankly we don't know what it said. He has said 2 different things. First he said the mask showed him i had a guilty conscience. Then he said the mask showed him I was thinking I was scum.

I can think of a few explanations that wouldn't even relate to relevant Role info i would have been given, and those are, he's not sane/the mask isn't trust worthy or I'm a miller (possibly just in the past, or maybe at all times.)

But its useless to speculate about that until we get a more solid indication of what exactly the mask said about me. Is it that I feel guilty (or have a strong feeling of guilt, which wouldn't necessarily indicate someone being scum) or that I was thinking, "oh hey, I'm scum"


On a more relevant note, I retract my day one suspicions of iLord. I'm fairly certain that was just an overreaction to perceived combativeness on my part.

I like that defense, except for what you find the "most relevant". How is that relevant? Someone accuses you of being scum and you distance yourself from a previous argument you made? That isn't the best thing to do if you were town at all. Makes me believe more that you are scum.

[SilverPhoenix]

How is that a direct contradiction? Before this game I've never seen someone accused of being scum saying, "hey. maybe i'm a miller". THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION THERE BUT GOOD TRY.

The standardness of "I'm miller" isn't the contradiction. You said you didn't say "maybe I'm a miller" when you clearly did.

You claimed "maybe I'm a miller" was a standard response. I have never seen that used (i'll admit its may have been used in games ive not been in) and

I've never used it.

I can think of a few explanations that wouldn't even relate to relevant Role info i would have been given, and those are, he's not sane/the mask isn't trust worthy

or I'm a miller (possibly just in the past, or maybe at all times.)

But what's up with this quick (and possibly mis-) lynching? Guys, seriously be more careful, especially now that we absolutely know that we have a double-voter. What a freaking disaster.

[SilverPhoenix]

Which probably means that MafiaSSK isn't playing this game at all. XD

[SilverPhoenix]

Attacks him...

My "attack" wasn't really one: it was a question that he never got to answer fully.

SP is so hesitant to call him scum that I noted it even in my brief scanning yesterday. Looks like a hesitant bus, in my view

You are drawing up your entire case on my hesitancy? The hesitancy that has been with me the entire game? The hesitancy that was there for both the

town

lynch on D1 and the

scum

lynch on D2? That proves that my hesitancy has

nothing

to do with the alignment of suspects. Townies are far from infallible, as we witnessed on D1, so I never completely trust my instincts at any one moment in the game, nor do I ever completely trust any townie (confirmed, claimed, or assumed) for that matter.
You have a sure-fire way of playing: you settle on a target you think is scum and rain down arguments until he's lynched. While I find that an admirable trait for a townie, townies that think they are absolutely right for any period of time in a game are the ones that hurt the town the most, as their view tunnels and they ignore potentially better targets, often until it is too late. Your instincts about ZONEFACE and Coheed are only right if you know the information ahead of time, and are not vindicated by their cardflip if you didn't know the info ahead of time.

[SilverPhoenix]

Hesitancy vs. your prodding of him at the same time - weak scum busses most often consist of "he looks scum here, and he did this scummy, so we should probably lynch him." Especially with the hesitancy in your playstyle - it matchs the picture perfectly.

Now why do scum bus? One of two reasons. The first, and most often, is that the two are tied together so much that if one flipped scum, the other would too. The second, and much weaker, is to appear more town by advocating the lynch of a known scum.
Not to sound vain, but I'm not that stupid as to make myself appear "more town". I have nothing to prove to the town, I am innocent until proven guilty by mod or otherwise.
Also, I wasn't sold at all on the ZONEFACE lynch, as quoted below.

But what's up with this quick (and possibly mis-) lynching? Guys, seriously be more careful, especially now that we absolutely know that we have a double-voter. What a freaking disaster.

Although parts of his play were scummy, I wasn't sold. If I was, I would have gladly voted for him. I don't see the problem with that. I have hesitant this game because frankly I haven't seen a whole lot of meaty stuff to dig into. I guess a reread is in order, but hesitancy is never a sure scum tell.

ZONEACE's role could just be insane?

How does that affect Pesco's investigation?

[SilverPhoenix]

it's the awkward combanation of trying to attack and get ready to jump off if the wagon doesn't look like it's going to succeed.

It's not a question of whether I think the wagon will succeed, but rather a question if I think they are scummy enough. In both cases, I didn't think so, even though there were parts about both players that I found scummy. I have controlled my vote somewhat tightly in this game; I am not voting and unvoting like crazy, which is really the true sign of attack hesitancy. I've have had mixed feelings about people in this game so far, and I don't see myself really attacking people (I haven't really made a strong case on anyone yet) or jumping on wagons (only voted Coheed after voting himself, didn't vote for ZONEFACE).

I don't get what you are saying - are you saying that you will never bus?

I more or less meant that I feel I don't have to prove myself to the town for being town. I guess it is more WIFOM than anything, as if I were scum, would I want to distance myself from a partner that is getting lynched or just keep my mouth shut about him? Considering my playstyle, I would prefer the second choice, as it offers the least information. But that doesn't really matter: what matters is that calling my play a bus is pretty much WIFOM.

[SilverPhoenix]

The sanity of Pesco's role rests on his target being sane enough to consider himself town.

Well, doesn't that mean that ZONEFACE have to be a cop? He flipped tracker, but I somewhat doubt that he would be an insane tracker.

[SilverPhoenix]

I find it scummy that you don't pay attention to the Mod's posts.

What are you talking about? This is why I have been hesitant this entire game: moves like this that confuse the hell out of me.

You didn't think a guilt investigation was scummy enough? What do you need, then?

Well, considering that we have been considering this sanity issue for going on three pages, isn't that enough skepticism about Pesco's role? Like I said, I found them somewhat scummy but not completely enough. In light of ZazieR's vote above, it goes to show that there are way too many people in this game that throw around their votes lightly based on little suspicion. I don't see what is scummy about wanting more to go on.

You're not reducing my point to WIFOM - that can be used on almost all scum behavior ("If he knew this was scummy, then why would he do it?")

Okay, so you ask for me what I meant, and when I tell you, you tell me that's not what I meant. I call that entrapment. It's low, it's false, and it's scummy.

FoS: iLord.

[SilverPhoenix]

But wait, ZONEACE did lie, because he flipped scum. So what are you trying to get at here?

But in twilight, you didn't even mention the possilbility of sanity issues. You were way too sure of ZONEACE's alignment,

when he claimed town when he shouldn't have any reason to lie.

I'm trying to figure out why you were willing to trust that your role was sane over a player who claimed town in twilight.

Why are you railing against Pesco for trusting his sanity on his role while railing against me for not voting on a guilty investigation? Contradiction, contradiction...

[SilverPhoenix]

6. He does not have any reason to lie - his alignment's about to be revealed and he's already lynched - it's twilight.

He was angry about the whole thing, so he went kicking and screaming with personal attacks and whatnot. That is about the best reason to lie as I can see. Not everything in a game turns out the way you expect. That is why you cannot rely complete on "standard" tells in order to find scum. Games have unexpected events, period. I think simply that ZONEFACE implying that he was town after his lynch was one of those. The entire argument is fallacious under No True Scotsman.

Scum can not perform their kill until it's Future Phase

That's a bad assumption. It is a better assumption that this is a power role heavy game (evident by the Mafia watcher to see what roles the town might have), in which there could be roleblockers, doctors, NK-immunities, etc. Many reasons for a kill-less night.

I've put ZONACE's final actions into perspective and concluded that he was probably most angry at his buddies bussing him too quickly. The main suspects being Malt (putting at L-1) and iLord (the hammer). Working to discredit the cop at any way possible is their best means of getting rid of me while they have no means to change the phase in their favour.

It's an interesting theory, even though he was the most mad at you. A scum tell that comes to mind is scum blaming others for bussing when he was really the busser (iLord in this case). But again, a pretty big assumption.

Yes, it is. I want to know when you are online and avoid my questions.

What's the difference between him responding to your arguments 10 minutes or 10 hours after you make them? It sounds like you want him to slip up by getting angry and wanting him to respond quickly.

Overall, way too many assumptions (some more incorrect than others) for my liking. Bad assumptions = bad arguments.

[SilverPhoenix]

EDWOP: The link to the wiki is this: No True Scotsman. (added the period in the url )

[SilverPhoenix]

Also, which posts have you read between posts 349 and 390?

All of them...? I have read everything, I don't know what you mean by "I'm ignoring the mod posts."

Also SP, what I meant is easy to explain. You have read ZONEACE's posts, but you didn't read Tar's post. That gives me the impression that you already knew he would flip scum. If you still don't know what I'm talking about, see posts 1 or 328.

Still confused about what you are talking about. I never said right out that ZONEFACE was scum, I never voted for him. I never gave indication that I possibly knew ZONEFACE was scum. Give proof that I did and I'll address it, but just saying I did doesn't make any sense to me.
And I did read Tar's post. I'm completely baffled at your seemingly no-reason, no-proof vote.

[SilverPhoenix]

Another note - where was SP in all of this? Is he in V/LA?

Sorry to not say this before, but I am LA until I get my laptop back, which should be in the next couple of days or so.

Before I'll answer or explain anything else, I meant 'which posts after your post 349 did you read'? Only those afterwards or did you check posts from before?

Once again, I have read everything, and still don't understand what you mean by "not reading the mod posts". Are you talking about lack of acknowledgment or something? I have no clue.

[SilverPhoenix]

Well, doesn't that mean that ZONEFACE have to be a cop?

He flipped tracker

, but I somewhat doubt that he would be an insane tracker.

The only roles were a mod would consider sanity would be investigative roles. Since ZONEFACE obviously wasn't a cop (which I though iLord was suggesting), I was expressing my doubts that he was an insane tracker (which is what the mod said he was), especially since we are likely in a role-heavy game in which the mafia would benefit greatly from a tracker.

[SilverPhoenix]

ZONEACE, Rauru,

Mafia Watcher

, MODKILLED Day 2

To show I'm reading what the mod posts....
Although I said tracker, watcher/tracker are pretty much the same role. They find what people do during the night.

[SilverPhoenix]

Am I correct in assuming that SP knew that ZONEACE was a tracker before the mod fixed his mistake?

Unvote, vote: SilverPhoenix

I really don't see the difference between a watcher and tracker: I use them interchangeably. I know there are technical differences, but I don't find them different enough to be scummy for saying one and not the other. It simply isn't fair.

Mod: What is the difference between a tracker and a watcher in your terms? Because I'm really curious why you make me appear to have more knowledge than I do.

A tracker sees who his target targets. A watcher sees who targets his target. I made a mistake when writing ZONEACE's death scene and identified him as the wrong role. - Tar

[SilverPhoenix]

OH COME ON. It's obvious that he's scum--there's no way he would screw up saying tracker without inside knowledge.

Proxy: Natirasha

Once again, I found the roles interchangeable in

general talking terms

. The fact that I said the other and the mod changed it to that other is an accident that is really on the mod's error.

Mod: Check your PM box...

[SilverPhoenix]

You've been here for more than a year already, and also, when you said "It simply isn't fair", it seems to be slightly overreacting and an appeal to emotion, too.

A better indicator of my skill level is games played, in which I've only completed

two

. I dropped for like 6-8 months and got replaced in all the games I was in, so I didn't get to finish those (like 3 or so). Nevertheless, I was being too general in saying tracker = watcher.
The fact is that the mod error is the only reason why I look like scum at this point. I'm appealing to the mod, not to any of you. And I'm overreacting? Considering that what has happened can easily lead to my lynch, better for me to zealously defend myself then just let it happen.

[SilverPhoenix]

You guys are idiots. Thanks for

ONCE AGAIN

lynching someone before a chance to claim. I had a one-shot NK immunity during the past (that I didn't use last night) and a reflector ability (I could redirect kills aimed at me to someone else) in the future, stuff that I could have used to cause some serious damage to the scum by preventing kills. And I'm lynched all of a minor fucking technicality and a mod error. It's not like I helped myself much about protecting myself, but nevertheless, the town sure is playing this one poorly and being led like sheeple.
Whatever, go town. I guess.

I would pick Natirasha as scum for even finding such a stupid thing as using one word over another as something to lynch over. But it isn't like the town is going to wisen up any time soon.

[SilverPhoenix]

EDWOP: Oh, I was town, if you didn't get that.