Mini 672 - Tranquility (Game Over)

[Kmd4390]

I DO buy the mason Claim. For now.
Charter's play has backed it up.... so I don't see why Porkens is still all over them.

Scum generally want a mason lynched so they can NK the other. That's what it looks like Porkens is doing. From reading ahead, Nameless too.

Responding to Spy next.

[Porkens]

P.S. How how HOW can you call me scum for going after you when you JUST told everyone that you've been intentionally playing scummy?

[Kmd4390]

Dont you

dare

try to blame this fiasco on me. Yes, I dont have a vote on you

now

but if you think this makes you some "awesome confirmed power town duo" no.

If by fiasco, you mean last night (IRL), that was Porkens. If you mean calling out cop, watcher, tracker safeclaims that weren't there, that was you.

Both of you softclaimed. This happened. This caused this. Any idea what my role is? Of course not - because I wouldn't be silly enough to drop "secret hints"

unless I absolutely thought it was 100% necessary.

No. I didn't softclaim. The post that you call a softclaim HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH CHARTER. I breadcrumbed in the random stage. That is different. Nobody saw it until Charter claimed.

Now, with that said. Its a DUH, but neither of you are the correct lynch for today. However I dont agree with the push on Porkens for it either.

Ok, what do you think of the way Porkens pushed for a lynch and said he'd be ok with it even if we are masons? What do you think of Nameless trying to push the idea that I had an elaborate scum plan to claim masons all along? (Now that my post got deleted, I can include this part knowing what Nameless said)

is it just TWO of you masons?

Yes.

A mason IS an investigative role if you are mod-confirmed.

In the sense that I know charter to be town, I guess you could call it that. Again though, that post had nothing to do with charter. I was not softclaiming anything. I was just refusing to take part in your fishing.

Again, you guys made the statements. "who is the cop" is rolefishing. Calling out I have secret information, isn't.

Calling out softclaims that aren't there IS. You said that I claimed watcher, tracker, cop. I think it's safe to say I am not any of these. From anyone else's point of view in this game, I am either mason with charter, or scum with charter. It has been proven that you have been wrong about my "softclaim". Now stop trying to fish for everyone else's role.

[Kmd4390]

P.S. How how HOW can you call me scum for going after you when you JUST told everyone that you've been intentionally playing scummy?

What? Is this directed at me??? I never said I intentionally played scummy.

[Kmd4390]

Nameless,

NOT.

BUYING.

IT.

Here we go again.

But then, alas, this mess. Yelling. Inane theories. My precious bandwagon, gone.

Please elaborate on "insane theories."

Why do you want to take full credit for your "precious bandwagon"?

prove this. Kmd hid a message, to use if he or Charter were in danger, but what we have to realise is that establishing a link between two players and proving by having charter bring it to light does not actually prove any ability that is unique to a power role, no, but something much more common in fact to our ever present enemies: the scum. Kmd made that breadcrumb to use as a last resort and informed charter and a third unknown party during the first night while they were secretly discussing who to kill.

This is sad that you think I am scum who set up a reason for a connection with just one of my scumbuddies. It's even more sad that you say this is proven. It's not proven, because it's not true. Claiming mason would be one of the worst scum moves I have ever seen.

the downfall of one now guarantees the exposure of the other.

No, it guarentees the innocence of the other if one of us dies. Then, people will see what I am talking about with your reluctance to believe the claim. You are trying to make us look like scum by imagining up some elaborate story. My suspicions, in order, are as follows:

1.Porkens
2.Nameless
3.Camn.

So L-1 is reached and Charter panics, revealing Kmd's other gambit.

Breadcrumbing is hardly a gambit.

This is where we are now, but I can only hope this is not where the story ends.

Very entertaining, and imaginative story. Untrue though.

[Kmd4390]

So, good job Kmd, but seriously guys we need to lynch Charter. (Remember all those scumtells against him? The great chance of him being scum? They still count.) Lynch Charter today, and Kmd will die tomorrow (either by having damned himself or NKed after being confirmed). Best case scenario we've almost one, worst case scenario we're probably in Lylo. It's a risk, but the odds are in the majority's favour, and trying to figure out the next best lynch now is likely to end in failure (and Charter/Kmd almost certainly still alive leaving the same choice tomorrow but with worse consequences for being wrong).

This bandwagon isn't over until I

say

it's over!

Wow, I don't like this post.

Ok, here we go.

Yes, I'll probably die by NK if charter is lynched. Do you honestly think this is because we are scum? Listen to yourself. You say this is risky, and you still want to do it?

That last line looks like desperation to revive the crumbling wagon you almost lynched town with.

[/Drama]

(Anyway, at least that was fun to write. )

Fun to read too. Too bad it's wrong.

Even if they are telling the truth, there's always a possibility that one of the masons is minority.

No, we were specifically told the other is town.

No one was on, charter, who was I going to talk to?

Seriously? We have over a week until deadline. There is time to wait for people BEFORE YOU RUSH INTO A LYNCH AGAIN.

After my readthrough, I think Nameless is scummier than Porkens.

##Unvote, ##Vote Nameless

Porkens is still my number two.

[Stef]

Wow.. that was a hell of a read

I'll post my thoughts tomorrow prolly.. just got home after a 3 day trip and i'm exhausted.

[SpyreX]

Well, I'll give this claim one thing - it sure brought the go go gadget WORDS to the table.

@Nameless & Porkens:
I agree with you to an extent. Trust me I'm not anti-lynch because I think they're uber-pro-town or even all that useful of a role. HOWEVER, this early on there is many, many ways to deal with it that don't involve lynching them today. Hell, I'm always a fan of a little WIFOM forcing on the scum - do they kill one totally confirming the other OR do they hope we get nervous enough to lynch... knowing if we dont that at lylo there's a 66% at MINIMUM chance of nailing scum.

So, dont think for a minute they get to run the town or even get totally off the hook. One day at a time.

@Rishi:

Also, SpyreX, I have no intention of answering the question you want answered. There's discussion about it in the thread (not necessarily by me). I suggest you go back and look for it.

I'll get into this more later, but this business will never cease to aggravate me and it, on top of everything else, it makes you look scummy. So thats A-Ok!

@Zazier:

Even if they are telling the truth, there's always a possibility that one of the masons is minority.

They took that business away. With only two of them and one saying they are mod confirmed (and the other not countering that) if one is scum they are both scum. Period.

@Charter:

@Spyrex, I completely see how you could have thought of me as scum. I saw it the whole time, but other than just repeating, "you're wrong spyrex", I had no way of getting you off my back. It obviously isn't your fault either. I didn't even try and act not scummy. Two reasons. First, I had a power role, so generally if you attract some (but not the most) attention during the day, you won't get lynched, and you certainly won't get NK'ed. Second, it was easy to act scummy, because I knew from the getgo another persons role and alignment, same as scum. However, I believe it will be easy to tell that we are in fact masons if anyone were to read through the game. There is no FoS's, no suggesting the other might be suspicious, no questioning suspicious things the other has done. None of scum distancing or bussing.

This is like a "how to not do a PR well" book. Utilize your PR as much as you can to help the town. Acting scummy, by your own volition, does NOT help the town. Hell, you're masons, not a BP hypercharger cop - your role is more useful when, independent of it, you feel like town. The masons claim makes sense but trying to pish-posh away the idea it could be a balls-to-the-wall mafia gambit is impossible because they are two sides of the same coin (notice I didn't mention cult because that is a much lower probability).

Why do you not think Porkens is scum? He didn't even wait or want to discuss our claim. He explains it by a wild cult theory (it is wild, see how often cults are used in a 12 person game, I don't even know if it's ever happened).

Cult, although definitely not Occam, DOES explain every bit of it. It may seem "wild" but the logic for it all makes sense. Holding pressure on you because he thinks you are scummy also makes sense - if you're trying to find scum. I'm not 100% Porkens is town but the play definitely suggests to me such.

We think other people are scum, Rishi isn't one of those, but we don't think he's even close to a definate townie either. Me and KMD are the only masons, Rishi isn't one of us.

You're gonna be in trooooubbbleeee for answering my rolefishing (hint, this was more rolefishing than anything else I've done yet). But, THANK YOU for actually answering the question. F.Y.I: (and this is a duh) - if, at ANY TIME, they say there is a third mason now hang the whole mess of em (KMD first just to eliminate even the chance of Cult).

If LG says no, then Porkens is lying scum and should be lynched, if LG says yes, Porkens is scum and should be lynched. If LG says no comment, see if LG says yes.

Sigh. This is one of those many "if you werent masons and therefore not the right lynch today I'd power hammer". You asked the mod a question that of COURSE he couldn't answer and setup a "regardless of the answer, lynch Porkens". That is not helpful. Please dont do it.

Now, KMD:

Scum generally want a mason lynched so they can NK the other. That's what it looks like Porkens is doing. From reading ahead, Nameless too.

So, assuming that Porkens / Namless are pushing your lynch so they can NK the other... aside from the fact that they need 4 other hombres to pile on, wouldn't that make them absolutely suspect and actually make your role about as useful as it possibly could be?
Having suspicion on you, especially when your partner admits you've been scummy, is NOT a scumtell. Pushing on PR's that are playing bad is NOT a scumtell. However, if they dont look in other avenues and become focused on this.. that will be something to look at.

If by fiasco, you mean last night (IRL), that was Porkens. If you mean calling out cop, watcher, tracker safeclaims that weren't there, that was you.

I said investigative because your statement made reference to knowing something about another persons alignment. The cop, watcher, tracker were the examples of investigative I gave. Hence my little when you said you were a mod-confirmed mason because that is an investigative role.

No. I didn't softclaim. The post that you call a softclaim HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH CHARTER. I breadcrumbed in the random stage. That is different. Nobody saw it until Charter claimed.

You know, you are right. It had NOTHING TO DO WITH CHARTER. All your secrets are out of the bag now so perhaps you will actually answer my question.

Finally, KMD; Why didn't you call out SpyreX when he said that I was soft-claiming?

My honest answer would affect the town in a negative way.

So, you are a mason. You know charter's alignment. Why didn't you call me out when I went after what I thought was Porkens soft-claiming. Why would your honest answer affect the town in a negative way? (Also, if you can't see how an honest answer has a negative effect not being related to a PR if you are, in fact, town then I just dont know.)

Calling out softclaims that aren't there IS. You said that I claimed watcher, tracker, cop. I think it's safe to say I am not any of these. From anyone else's point of view in this game, I am either mason with charter, or scum with charter. It has been proven that you have been wrong about my "softclaim". Now stop trying to fish for everyone else's role.

Ok, we're going to go around and around about this but hell I'm not dropping it. I said you softclaimed an investigative role (and gave said examples) because the statement "My honest answer would hurt the town"

implies

knowledge outside of the normal game framework or you're a crazy person. Now, in general, the assumption for such information (especially in regards to not calling someone out) would HAVE to be by nature investigative. So, yea. I'm not fishing for information - its not like I went "Hey Zazier, what is your role?" You, Charter and Rishi all made statements that imply outside information and if you dont expect to get called on it - don't make the statements (see my still wanting Rishi to explain his). So, if you want to call me saying "WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN" rolefishing. Sure. However, don't make the mistake to think it was I who first brought the role to attention.

So: Saying in any fashion "My answer is bad" assumes the information to lead to said information isn't within the normal game framework which, thereby means said information is gained through a PR (or lies). So, yes, it is a softclaim.

[charter]

No one was on, charter, who was I going to talk to?

You must admit that it was unnecessary to out KMD when you claimed, do you not see how that would have been better? I know at least KMD does; he layed it out perfectly in one of his posts last night.

How have I

lied

? I didn't have the benefit of pre-knowledge when I started suspecting/talking about KMD and being wrong isn't scummy. You're push against me, at this point, is simple OMGUS. Take another look at your list of suspects. I may have been the most vocal, but see if you can find something substantial.

Having slept on it, I agree that this claim (as badly done as it was) is too bold for a scum-pair to make at this point in the game.

And you are right; a cult would be overpowered in a 12 person game (where I come from, masons can recruit, and I always forget they don't here.)

So,

##unvote

Now, as I said before; I thought either KMD or Camn were scum.

##vote: Camn

Oh my god. Here is the changing story. Here it is. He's just completely flipped on everything and now he's going towards the person attracting the most suspicion camn. I haven't been convinced of camn this whole game, the only thing driving my suspicions was Kmd was so sure. However, I am positive Porkens is scum.

Dont let him get away with this story changing.

Sigh. This is one of those many "if you werent masons and therefore not the right lynch today I'd power hammer". You asked the mod a question that of COURSE he couldn't answer and setup a "regardless of the answer, lynch Porkens". That is not helpful. Please dont do it.

I know, I also knew LG wouldn't give any hint of anything away. However, the whole point is now moot because Porkens has flip flopped again and is going after the next easiest lynch target, camn.
If we ever claim to have someone else with us, go ahead and lynch me, hell, I'll even vote myself.

Kmd- Porkens is definate scum, and Nameless is almost definate scum. I'd switch back to porkens. He's probably also easier to get lynched, and once he flips scum, nameless won't be able to weasel his way out.

[Porkens]

So, assuming that Porkens / Namless are pushing your lynch so they can NK the other

I'm not pushing the lynch anymore. As I posted at the end of page 25; I slept on it and decided it would be best to puruse leads on other players.

Oh my god. Here is the changing story. Here it is. He's just completely flipped on everything and now he's going towards the person attracting the most suspicion camn. I haven't been convinced of camn this whole game, the only thing driving my suspicions was Kmd was so sure. However, I am positive Porkens is scum. Dont let him get away with this story changing.

Charter, I imagine you jumping up and down, waving your arms around like an octopus, and getting red in the face when you post things like this. Honestly; I've been consistent, my actions have had explanations, and I'm allowed to change my mind, ISN'T THAT WHY YOU CLAIMED? TO GET ME TO CHANGE MY MIND?

I was pushing on you because you, and you've admitted/confirmed this, were acting like a SCUM LORD. Because you claimed in the worst way possible, I kept the pressure going. But YOUR point, that a cult would be unbalanced in a 12 player game, along with a night's sleep, made me reconsider my position.

So now that you've knocked out my #1 and #2 suspects with your claim, I'm going with the person who I said last week was probably scum; Camn.

Kmd- Porkens is definate scum, and Nameless is almost definate scum. I'd switch back to porkens. He's probably also easier to get lynched, and once he flips scum, nameless won't be able to weasel his way out.

Whatever happens, if/when I die and flip mafioso; do NOT assume Nameless is also mafioso.

[Porkens]

Also;
I'm not trying to kick up more dirt here, but this jumped out at me:

is it just TWO of you masons?

Yes.

if we ever claim to have someone else with us, go ahead and lynch me, hell, I'll even vote myself.

Charter, you are saying that there

won't

be a third, right?

[charter]

Oh my god. Here is the changing story. Here it is. He's just completely flipped on everything and now he's going towards the person attracting the most suspicion camn. I haven't been convinced of camn this whole game, the only thing driving my suspicions was Kmd was so sure. However, I am positive Porkens is scum. Dont let him get away with this story changing.

Charter, I imagine you jumping up and down, waving your arms around like an octopus, and getting red in the face when you post things like this. Honestly; I've been consistent, my actions have had explanations, and I'm allowed to change my mind, ISN'T THAT WHY YOU CLAIMED? TO GET ME TO CHANGE MY MIND?

This is just more lies. You've been consistent? Are you serious? You were "convinced" me and kmd were scum or cultists or whatever, then you saw that neither of us will be lynched today and you have now changed to believing our claim. You're allowed to change your mind, it's the fact that you do it so as to be going with the crowd that is scummy.

And yes, that was me saying there won't be a third mason ever.

[Porkens]

[quote="charter"]
This is just more lies. You've been consistent? Are you serious?

You were "convinced" me and kmd were scum or cultists or whatever, then you saw that neither of us will be lynched today and you have now changed to believing our claim.

You're allowed to change your mind, it's the fact that you do it so as to be going with the crowd that is scummy.[quote]

You are wrong. But ok, you are entitled to your interpretation.

[Nameless]

@Spyrex, I completely see how you could have thought of me as scum. I saw it the whole time, but other than just repeating, "you're wrong spyrex", I had no way of getting you off my back. It obviously isn't your fault either. I didn't even try and act not scummy. Two reasons. First, I had a power role, so generally if you attract some (but not the most) attention during the day, you won't get lynched, and you certainly won't get NK'ed. Second, it was easy to act scummy, because I knew from the getgo another persons role and alignment, same as scum.

It is ridiculous that Charter is getting away with this. Having a PR is not an excuse to act scummy. Having a PR does not explain or justify acting scummy in various areas unrelated to your claimed PR.

Your play is telling me you aren't scum, while there's is.

Charter, you are STILL not giving an actual answer to the question. Elaborate, and give specific examples.

@ Kmd, re: #629: For the hell of it, I was being overly dramatic in that post (just in case you missed that), so you can take each literal phrase with a pinch of salt. The insane theories referred to the word "cult", basically. You being scum with a touch of planning isn't an "elaborate story" either, it's a painfully obvious alternative to your claim.
And, re: #630: No sh- (ahem) seriously, I think you're scum. Enough pointless questions already. I say "risky" because we're probably left in LyLo if you're innocent but given that's extremely unlikely it's almost a non-issue. And the last line was more of that drama thing again.

Oh, and the fact that your two biggest suspects are two people who at that time didn't believe your claim could be interpreted as OMGUS.

Whatever happens, if/when I die and flip mafioso; do NOT assume Nameless is also mafioso.

Okay, if I can force myself to put aside the train wreck that is Kmd/Charter for two seconds, this statement by Porkens is highly suspect. If Porkens were majority, there would be no reason for saying this because the situation wouldn't arise. It just sounds stupid, obvious and something about as unnecessary as would come from Kmd. If Porkens is minority, he still has no reason to say this - other than to tie himself in with me (in accordance with Kmd's accusations) and have me lynched the next day.

Hell, first Porkens quickly unvotes when Charter reaches L-1. Then, once several other people have unvoted, he disbelieves the claim and revotes Charter. Then he changes his mind and unvotes Charter again, only for

Charter

to go into attack mode. I was thinking at work yesterday that for Kmd/Charter to risk publicly tying themselves together they couldn't risk the 3rd being close to them - hence Charter could be bussing Porkens D2 to appear more sucm, while BOTH of them try and tie myself in with him.

[Porkens]

Okay, if I can force myself to put aside the train wreck that is Kmd/Charter for two seconds, this statement by Porkens is highly suspect. If Porkens were majority, there would be no reason for saying this because the situation wouldn't arise. It just sounds stupid, obvious and something about as unnecessary as would come from Kmd. If Porkens is minority, he still has no reason to say this - other than to tie himself in with me (in accordance with Kmd's accusations) and have me lynched the next day.

What you say is usually true. However, for

some

reason (Charter being obtuse about almost everything else in the game so far) I felt I needed to EXPLAIN it. Charter was linking your alignment to mine. What if it came down to you, charter, and whoever. I've died by then; I don't want charter to assume that you are mafioso as well.

Hell, first Porkens quickly unvotes when Charter reaches L-1. Then, once several other people have unvoted, he disbelieves the claim and revotes Charter. Then he changes his mind and unvotes Charter again, only for Charter to go into attack mode. I was thinking at work yesterday that for Kmd/Charter to risk publicly tying themselves together they couldn't risk the 3rd being close to them - hence Charter could be bussing Porkens D2 to appear more sucm, while BOTH of them try and tie myself in with him.

The series of events is fair, but the motivations aren't totally accurate:
1. Porkens quickly unvotes when Charter reaches L-1.

To give him time to make his claim. Seriously, am I going to get crap no mater which way I go at L-1?

2. Then, once several other people have unvoted, he disbelieves the claim and revotes Charter.

The way he made the claim (which outed the other mason) cast doubt in my mind. I wasn't going to let the claim get them to it's natural conclusion (them not getting lynched) without some additional pressure.

3. Then he changes his mind and unvotes Charter again...

Yep, can't argue with this one

Certainly, if they are lying about their claim, they have a third person. And it makes sense that they'd distance from that person. If I go down though, Nameless, what will you think about their alignments then?

[melikefood]

I miss everything that's going on...
D:

My sincerest apologies.

Tomorrow, I'll be done with my essay.
So I'll get back to it soon.

[charter]

In case anyone (not porkens or nameless) doesn't see it, let me know, but there are a bunch of twisting of facts that occurred in each of porkens and nameless's last posts. I am now convinced both of them are scum with how they have absolutely blown up after our mason claim.

[Porkens]

Stef, Rishi, Melikefood, and camn all need to post something in response to what went on this weekend. I know I've said enough for a while; it feels like me and charter are just going to shout "no, you're wrong" at each other if we keep going, so; I'll take a step back till the others have their say.

[Kmd4390]

You're gonna be in trooooubbbleeee for answering my rolefishing (hint, this was more rolefishing than anything else I've done yet). But, THANK YOU for actually answering the question. F.Y.I: (and this is a duh) - if, at ANY TIME, they say there is a third mason now hang the whole mess of em (KMD first just to eliminate even the chance of Cult).

There is no third mason, and there is no cult. If Rishi was a mason with us, then yes, this would be serious fishing. It still is, it's just been proven wrong. Either way, you are fishing and need to stop.

So, assuming that Porkens / Namless are pushing your lynch so they can NK the other... aside from the fact that they need 4 other hombres to pile on, wouldn't that make them absolutely suspect and actually make your role about as useful as it possibly could be?

If they can push the case to the point where people agree, then yes, they can get one lynched and one NK'd and be able to say "look at how many other people thought they were scum." Also, Porkens was pushing the idea early, before anyone else came in and said they believed the claim. He was trying to get the idea out early that charter and I are both scum.

I said investigative because your statement made reference to knowing something about another persons alignment. The cop, watcher, tracker were the examples of investigative I gave. Hence my little when you said you were a mod-confirmed mason because that is an investigative role.

I know what you were getting at with calling mason investigative. The point I was trying to make before the claim still stands though. You were pushing what you saw as softclaims and ended up forcing masons to claim. Now don't force another PR to claim too.

You know, you are right. It had NOTHING TO DO WITH CHARTER. All your secrets are out of the bag now so perhaps you will actually answer my question.

No. I won't help you fish. I don't actually know anything about what you asked. I just don't want to be a part of your fishing, so I'm not going to answer that question.

My honest answer would affect the town in a negative way.

So, you are a mason. You know charter's alignment. Why didn't you call me out when I went after what I thought was Porkens soft-claiming. Why would your honest answer affect the town in a negative way? (Also, if you can't see how an honest answer has a negative effect not being related to a PR if you are, in fact, town then I just dont know.)
[/quote]

There are specifics to your fishing that I don't want to get into. I'll ignore anything else on this one.

Oh my god. Here is the changing story. Here it is. He's just completely flipped on everything and now he's going towards the person attracting the most suspicion camn. I haven't been convinced of camn this whole game, the only thing driving my suspicions was Kmd was so sure. However, I am positive Porkens is scum.

Dont let him get away with this story changing.

Actually, this

was

his original point. He is coming back to it because you aren't going to be lynched like he had hoped.

Kmd- Porkens is definate scum, and Nameless is almost definate scum. I'd switch back to porkens. He's probably also easier to get lynched, and once he flips scum, nameless won't be able to weasel his way out.

I'd be ok with a lynch of either.

ISN'T THAT WHY YOU CLAIMED? TO GET ME TO CHANGE MY MIND?

And it didn't work. What changed your mind wan't the claim. The claim got you after charter even more. It was after the lynch wasn't going to happen that you changed your mind.

Responding to the next few posts next.

[Kmd4390]

@ Kmd, re: #629: For the hell of it, I was being overly dramatic in that post (just in case you missed that), so you can take each literal phrase with a pinch of salt.

What I get from this is: "I think you are scum. Here's why. Don't give any merit to it though.

The insane theories referred to the word "cult", basically. You being scum with a touch of planning isn't an "elaborate story" either, it's a painfully obvious alternative to your claim.

Ok, I thought you meant cults. Just wanted to make sure. And yes, your story is "elaborate".

Oh, and the fact that your two biggest suspects are two people who at that time didn't believe your claim could be interpreted as OMGUS.

I realize how it can be interpreted. I'd be thinking this even if other people were the masons though.

I am now convinced both of them are scum with how they have absolutely blown up after our mason claim.

Yeah. I think you might be right on this one.

[Nameless]

1. Porkens quickly unvotes when Charter reaches L-1.

To give him time to make his claim. Seriously, am I going to get crap no mater which way I go at L-1?

Charter claimed #576. You unvoted #57

7

. So yeah. But, gah, disregard the majority of my last accusation anyway ... I misread "mafioso" for "mafia". *headbang*

In case anyone (not porkens or nameless) doesn't see it, let me know,

I see you're once again attempting to limit who is allowed to call you out for things.

There are specifics to your fishing that I don't want to get into. I'll ignore anything else on this one.

Would SOMEBODY please explain to me what Kmd could possibly not want to get into regarding (what SpyreX called out as) his softclaim that Kmd could possible know but not want revealed outside of him already claiming mason? Honestly, am I missing something here (and I seriously can't think of what), or is Kmd just attempting to BSlogic SpyreX into silence.

What I get from this is: "I think you are scum. Here's why. Don't give any merit to it though.

Yes, I think you are scum. Amongst the dramatics I reminded everyone how scummy you/Charter have been and how your claim doesn't change this. Merit

should

be given to the possibility that you and Charter are scum who planned the claim in the case of outing. That is all of importance.

And yes, your story is "elaborate".

Let's clarify. The story style was elaborate. Do you believe the theory itself that scum could plan a mason claim elaborate?

[charter]

In case anyone (not porkens or nameless) doesn't see it, let me know,

I see you're once again attempting to limit who is allowed to call you out for things.

Porkens already summed it up. I'm convinced you and him are scum. Nothing is going to change my mind, so all arguing with you and him is going to be town vs scum and won't go anywhere.

[Nameless]

Nothing is going to change my mind

This? This is what tunnel vision

is

.

[camn]

Stef, Rishi, Melikefood, and camn all need to post something in response to what went on this weekend. ...

Porkens.. you never really answered my question from last night.. though KMD answered it for you Thanks for the ignore.

But I have some more.

a) Even if Charter and KMD's claim is a lie (although I think it is true)... they are a bad lynch for today. The mafia should have to deal with it tonight. Either they will kill one, or we will have a ball with the WIFOM tomorrow. So that whole discussion is kind of a waste of time..

b) I know this means I am going to get some default votes now. I simply ask for BRIEF summations of your cases on me along with them. Please!

c) I think Stef and Zazie have been skating along WAY too easily here. IMO, at least one of them is scum. Probably Both.
Also, I think at least one of Nameless and Rishi is scum.

I know we wasted a lot of time with charter.. but we still have a week. I am not particularly convinced Porkens is scum, although I am confused about his reaction to the claims.
I got a long day tomorrow.. but I will try and get my cases together.
Off the cuff, I sense a Stef-Zazie-Rishi lurkerscumteam. If you were scum in the middle of a town this INSANE, wouldn't you just sit back and let it boil over?

I would.

c

[charter]

Nothing is going to change my mind

This? This is what tunnel vision

is

.

And? It's also me being confronted with a mountain of evidence against you and Porkens, one that you won't be able to overcome. Period.

c) I think Stef and Zazie have been skating along WAY too easily here.

Agree

IMO, at least one of them is scum.

Maybe

Probably Both.

As that doesn't leave room for porkens and nameless, disagree.

Also, I think at least one of Nameless and Rishi is scum.

Nameless.

Camn, why are you not sold on porkens? How do you ignore his recent flopping like a fish out of water? His ridiculous theories to begin with? His lies and word twistings?

Can we get a votecount and prods LG?

Not fair that scum aren't being lynched because people aren't here.