Open 797: Bus Service [Game Over]

[Nandor the Relentless]

I'm back, and this time I'm relentless.

Because I never relent.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Shift+-

I've tried having underscored before and they don't let you.

@mod:

Replace Bus Service with this account please.

[Nandor the Relentless]

derp is essentially active lurking the thread. He has no scumreads or pushes. His only content of note is saying the large sized elephant isn't scum, but could be scum if there were doing this a certain thing:

me not think the above average sized elephant has good reads but me not think they are scum

me not think the above average sized elephant has good reads but me not think they are scum

You're -of course- entitled to your own reads, but I'd beg you to consider the case where Elephant is the ONLY ACTIVE SCUM SLOT at this point and reread the game based on that assumption. Please and thank you.

i think their reads are bad but the eagerness to get them out there does not strike me as scummy but i could be wrong

its possible but i just dont see why scum would feel the need to do it either but it could be the large mammal is just trying a bit too hard to project town

Usually, a slot like this won't be eliminated till day 3 or something, he'll stick around most people's nullreads until the PoE catches up to him. A lot of scum fit this mould - one that has no bold stances, and is afraid to say anything that'll get them flak.

How about we speed up the process?

[Nandor the Relentless]

Big Elephant is sounding increasingly scummy, I think the TR on MiniVirgo is a deep pocket, and they're just generally agreeing with stuff and throwing out forced reads instead of solving.

I think mech talk is a bad way to TR people fwiw

VOTE: Big Elephant

I shittily try to end RVS but THIS gets no vote? /salty

VOTE: ProfMaf

This salt was notable to me, because it's more likely a scummo gets salty seeing a townsman doing something scummy which isn't pushed.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Read up.
Pretty sure this is town Shelly posting.
Would be willing to vote Elberin.
Yess seems really cautious to me?

Those are the prevailing thoughts upon a reread. Is this a micro? I feel like there are only like 6 players

Y'all are missing the part where Shelly is just like this.

The double derp is reasonably compelling, assuming that was the two different heads. Perspective slip, maybe? But by the end of your post we get into Shelly bein' Shelly.

Still better than voting someone who isn't here

VOTE: shelly/elephant/whatever

Keeping an eye on that prof maf slot tho

Why vote shelly if you think she's town? You could vote for anyone else.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Doesn't answer my question.

[Nandor the Relentless]

I don't even get that double vote thing btw. What scum motivation is there to fake that? There's none. The second head just happened to RVS-vote the same person without realising their other head already did, which means nothing alignment-wise.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Let's hear why, derpmeister

[Nandor the Relentless]

...right?

[Nandor the Relentless]

Why have you been so cautious in takes this game? Do you have reads elsewhere?

[Nandor the Relentless]

You certainly live up to your name, derp. You were one of the many players on a single vote when I voted you. shelly is the leading wagon.

What other reasons are there to call you scum? Active lurking and a lack of substantial takes is the biggest by a wide margin.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Why have you been so cautious in takes this game? Do you have reads elsewhere?

greetings nandor
me think u scum
best regards
derp

This uh doesn't exactly fill me with confidence, derpo the derpinator

[Nandor the Relentless]

Could you also explain how you were under the impression that you were the leading wagon? You've recieved 1 vote this entire game, so I'm really struggling to see how you mistake that.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Why is that a bad question?

[Nandor the Relentless]

This OMGUS is annoying me, it's hard to evaluate it objectively. I need some help.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Why is that a bad question?

why is it a good question?

This doesn't help

[Nandor the Relentless]

redados posted some, then he didn't, and then he left.

I'm asking shelly why that's the case.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Whatever, I don't even care. Now I'm curious about who you are though lol

[Nandor the Relentless]

Let's hear why, derpmeister

well my dear bus service i could be scum for a lot of reasons but it would certainly not be because i was bothered with getting flak and the fact that this was the angle u chose to pursue indicates a lazy and opportunistic reach. so the legendary and well behaved derpmeister has caught u and i am already looking forward to all of the compliments i will receive for my fantastic play. thank u town

This is why you think I'm scum.

Why do you disagree with my read that you've been posting to the thread without posting any reads or substantial takes?

What are these other reasons that you could be scum?

[Nandor the Relentless]

I'm not sure if you're saying this exactly, but scum!derp might be incentived to force some reads out to avoid flak? That's actually reasonable. My theory was that you were a launchbait type of player, one that struggles to make reads as scum, so just doesn't try out of fear. The things you've been saying in your push back here kind of suggest otherwise though, so I don't believe in it anymore.

UNVOTE: derp I will relent, but only THIS ONCE

Are you sherlock?

[Nandor the Relentless]

Did everyone other than me, A50 and N_M just create a dumb alt for this game?

Yep, a few of us here like Not_Mafia have been saving up a gimmick alt for years just for this game.

[Nandor the Relentless]

VOTE: Johnny

Only other scumlean I had.

[Nandor the Relentless]

I think Johnny is acting fairly opportunistic but I think they're also Town, I'll have to read back on their ISO

- JV

I don't like how he voted for shelly despite constantly bringing up experiences about her being town, dying d1, and acting just like this, or "shelly being shelly" I think it was.

Also, two posts in particular pinged me. Hang on, I'll go find them.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Big Elephant is sounding increasingly scummy, I think the TR on MiniVirgo is a deep pocket, and they're just generally agreeing with stuff and throwing out forced reads instead of solving.

I think mech talk is a bad way to TR people fwiw

VOTE: Big Elephant

I shittily try to end RVS but THIS gets no vote? /salty

VOTE: ProfMaf

Explained this one. Think scum have more reason to be salty here.

Either way, I'm feeling ok with this push on Shelly (or at least parts of it).

Might change my mind when she responds.

The highlighted pings me, but it's hard to articulate why.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Initially I brought up to mini that I thought a shelly scum-tell would be their super OMGUSy and pockety behaviour depending on how you act towards them. I wanted to test that initally by having Mini SR them and myself TR them. See if they reacted much differently to me than to her (although mini didn't post much). As SOON as I started disagreeing with her, she immediately switched their read on me. It was ticking exactly like I expected it to, if that is their town-meta as well they should probably learn to actually accept that they're not always right on their reads and shouldn't ever push anyone that stands against them.

This slot is so painfully town.

MiniVirgo is town because of this, Elbirn. This is absolutely brilliant if they managed to come up with this as scum. I think it's just genuine though.

Jacko, do you not see the differences in shelly? Her posts are more wordy and her tone is just different in a lot of ways.

[Nandor the Relentless]

@mod is there daytalk in this game

Not sure there's anything to respond to here. Lemme know if you have any direct questions homies.

I guess I could talk to you about the double vote thing. I still don't get how that's scum-indicative.

I don't even get that double vote thing btw. What scum motivation is there to fake that? There's none. The second head just happened to RVS-vote the same person without realising their other head already did, which means nothing alignment-wise.

Uncoordinated Hydra scum both independently targeting someone like derp seems odd to me. Either he's bait or their partner and they didn't want it to seem like they were ignoring him

Why is this more likely than uncoordinated hydra town who both happened to vote derp? I really don't see why one is more likely than the other.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Jacko pls, I think shelly is town here being mislaunched day 1 as town!her usually is. I don't understand why you don't also see this.
Her play here is light and day from her scum game in more than a few ways:

• She is more wordy and wishy-washy
  
• She is less abrasive and blunt
  
• She is not pushing people for terrible reasons
  
• She is not doing obviously fake reaction tests
  
• She has not lied about anything

[Nandor the Relentless]

derp smells for disappearing as soon as I unvoted him.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Why is this more likely than uncoordinated hydra town who both happened to vote derp? I really don't see why one is more likely than the other.

I'm more willing to believe in some level of intent rather than simple coincidence. Does that make me paranoid?

Yes. There's no scum motivation to fake it, it serves no purpose for them.

The worrying thing is that this extremely tinfoil theory is all it took for you to forget about your defenses of the large elephant and hop on.

[Nandor the Relentless]

VOTE: Nandor

I don't like your avatar either, change that now too please

Never. With this name, I never relent.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Jacko pls, I think shelly is town here being mislaunched day 1 as town!her usually is. I don't understand why you don't also see this.
Her play here is light and day from her scum game in more than a few ways:

• She is more wordy and wishy-washy
  
• She is less abrasive and blunt
  
• She is not pushing people for terrible reasons
  
• She is not doing obviously fake reaction tests
  
• She has not lied about anything

welcome hectic

thanks for the WK

Greet

I like the new avatar. I see you managed to get the sizing down this time.

[Nandor the Relentless]

If you're talking about us in combination, or this account use MiniVirgo or MV. Thank you, because I remember Nandor (I think) referencing Mini finding the double vote thing when it was me and I want to make that clarification.

- JV

Wasn't me. I've been calling the hydra MiniVirgo.

[Nandor the Relentless]

there is scum in {prof mafia, johnny, derp}
there is scum. in {MWNN, A50}

these are my conclusions atm
-S

shelly did not 180 on you, derp. This was from a while ago^

You're also shading her for putting out a team solve on day 1, but she's been putting out team solves for the entire day, and that hasn't bothered you before. It does now that you're in it though.

This OMGUS looks systematic.

VOTE: derp

[Nandor the Relentless]

hectics push was likely coming from scum!hectic

This sounds like a meta read. Are you going to explain this?

[Nandor the Relentless]

i am flattered u think there is a system to any of this and derp must also admit he finds it quite amusing how u still have issues understanding what omgus actually is

Your two vote candidates are two people you're calling scum for voting you specifically. That's what OMGUS is.

[Nandor the Relentless]

i am flattered u think there is a system to any of this and derp must also admit he finds it quite amusing how u still have issues understanding what omgus actually is

Your two vote candidates are two people you're calling scum for voting you specifically. That's what OMGUS is.

if i would just scumread people for voting on me then that would be omgus indeed but i am not and shelly is not voting on me (yet at least)

*saying you're scum in some way

You dislike me for my push on you.
You dislike shelly for her "180" on you.

Should I guess who I think you are? I'd still feel bad without your permission, even though you mercilessly outed me.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Well, I secret alt to remain hidden for at least some amount of time lol, this inevitably happens every game though, you've just sped up the process.

You smell like Menalque to me.

[Nandor the Relentless]

That game is 80% of why I think she's town.

[Nandor the Relentless]

@shelly: Why wasn't redados feeling this game?

I'm all caught up. shelly is probtown, although I can see why MiniVirgo is seeing elements of her scum play. The confident solve in particular is one of the things that's a little iffy.

Mind answering these, shelly?

[Nandor the Relentless]

Hectic

[Nandor the Relentless]

You are dead to me

[Nandor the Relentless]

I think you'll find I have a huge ego, Miltank. I even lended part of it to Flavor Leaf, because it was starting to weigh me down.

Most of them are on here: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Hectic

[Nandor the Relentless]

You have so many alts that you no longer have a main, just a series of accounts, each a fraction of man, with no identity, no self, a mere broken soul, floating between hollow vessels, desperately clinging to an increasingly fleeting ego and consciousness, you are but a shell

This is pretty good lol

I'll have to remember after this game is over

[Nandor the Relentless]

Want some help with a PageTop?

[Nandor the Relentless]

Next one should be yours

[Nandor the Relentless]

Uh, I miscalculated

[Nandor the Relentless]

Bus drive on ManNameNo and Johnny
Cop inno on Almo

[Nandor the Relentless]

Let's not PL N_M right now.

Why not? When does it happen then?

I've always been of the opinion that you policy the Miltank when you have no strong suspicions elsewhere. If you do have a reasonable scumread, you should launch there rather than take the policy launch.

I still have no way of reading him, so he's just a random 1/4 every time for me.

I haven't caught up yet, but I want to look at Johnny, and also want to look at yessire's reads, and whether he did anything that would make scum assume he was a PR - in which case we give the reads less consideration.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Elbirn's only take with reasons this game has been MiniVirgo scum because they're pushing miselim bait in Big Elephant/shelly. What are your townreads, or other suspicions, Elbirn?

My pool is [Not_Mafia, Johnny, Elbirn, Prof, Froppy]

I don't have a read on Froppy yet though.

[Nandor the Relentless]

I really don't like A50 here. Shelly push yesterday, refuting claims that she's bait, and putting the l-1 vote on derp AFTER being warned about NM lolhammers AND acknowledging the potential for one while voting. And then he just forgets his "lolhammers are a scum claim" position today and ignores NM entirely.

VOTE: A50 if NM is scum here, this is his partner.

I quite like this take from Johnny. I don't agree with it, but I think the logic is townyishingy

[Nandor the Relentless]

Looked over Elbirn's last two games (both town), and he was very engaged and proactive in solving in both.

VOTE: Elbirn

[Nandor the Relentless]

as for johnnyfarrar they are a player in this game that much I can say for certain. do you have a more direct question perhaps? prod me into a good direction

yeah. ok challenge 1 sort these names from town -> scum

Professor Mafia
A50
MiniVirgo
MWNN
JohnnyFarrar

probably somewhere like

MWNN
A50=johnny?
Prof
mini

or I'm just mad at mini for shit like:

Spicy take. Not_Mafia and Elbirn are scum together and they formulated that plan to get mad at them to distance.
Also A50 is v big wrinkler brain for putting them at L-1 while at the same time inviting N_M to hammer.
- JV

mini was town reading me yesterday but now they're floating bait like this? nah

what other reasons you got for MiniVirgo scum? you retracted your previous reasoning here:

UNVOTE:

on God there was minivirgo posts like "shelly is bait" and "I townread shelly" and then suddenly "heres a case on shelly after elbirn replaced in askin' about the shelly (bigelephant) wagon"

but now we're in a reality where those posts don't exist so I just look like I'm full of shit, or I'm too tired to sift through the noise that is minivirgos iso I dont wanna vote here until I think better

Also, town can townread someone but float theories about them being scum, it's the context that matters. what about Byteson's take there is scummy specifically?

[Nandor the Relentless]

Elbirn is probtown, im sure someone is better at reading him than I so

I would put mini, nandor, shelly, and maybe mccree in obvtown tier

Had a50 in locktown before but unsure now

Eh, yessiree did say this though. Had Elbirn as probtown.

Was focusing on Johnny and Prof as scum yesterday, which make me a little more inclined to launch there instead.

[Nandor the Relentless]

its elbirn/profmaf/johnny
I've seen the light

lol that's exactly my bottom 3 reads right now. would be very convenient but I'm not as optimistic as you.

Not_Mafia is like very, very slightly above null for refusing to hypoclaim. I think it's mostly NAI and stubbornness due to policy or something, but I think he's very slightly more likely to go along with it if scum.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Ok where you going when I flip green Shelly? Are those other reads independent of me? Let's figure this out now so you don't drive this town into the ground

Yeah, this doesn't read as very genuine

[Nandor the Relentless]

What is going on with your read on shelly, Johnny? You were okay with voting her out yesterday, and I can't find any progression in your ISO which led to her rising to your 3rd top town.

[Nandor the Relentless]

This has legit never happened to me, I'm frustrated.

I better not read about policy killing not maf tomorrow. I like the Prof Mafia direction, he's not even bothering to post defense. Probably excited with the thread direction.

You've never been launched before? Do you mean as either alignment or town?

nandor lets go kill johnny slot

N_M's play is really bold overall. i think there's a certain noncompliance or something towards the general opinion.
nandors thoughts just vibe with my own, MWNN is townspewing with this push, I don't see johnny!town anymore imo, if johnny flips red and I get nightkilled take a look at my solve

The lack of desire from people to go Elbirn despite the fact he hasn't done enough to warrant being ignored makes me feel uneasy.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Eh, I'm undecided. Some of these posts are scumpinging me, and some are townpinging me. I think Johhny's more likely to bring up the frustration/never been consensus scumread before as town rather than scum. Since it's less likely to pop into his head if he's scum and it's faked.

better not read about policy killing not maf tomorrow. I like the Prof Mafia direction, he's not even bothering to post defense. Probably excited with the thread direction.

but then stuff like this scumpings me

[Nandor the Relentless]

The lack of desire from people to go Elbirn despite the fact he hasn't done enough to warrant being ignored makes me feel uneasy.

I don't know, it has been a few months since he played, it seems, I feel like when I came back from a hiatus, I was the same way...

I wouldn't be against it, but, I'm less confident on the slot.

On the one hand, I don't like that he doesn't have one solid read from what I see.

On the other hand, if his last game was in July, is it really scum indicative?

Yeah, guess I should be factoring in his hiatus so the lack of engagement is less AI.

Still want to hear some actual reads from him though.

[Nandor the Relentless]

good night

Never relent, shelly

and will do

[Nandor the Relentless]

I like the Prof Mafia direction, he's not even bothering to post defense. Probably excited with the thread direction.

this part feels a little desperate. like a "come on guys, this guy isn't even defending himself, why aren't we launching him instead?"

[Nandor the Relentless]

lol look at the interests

and people are saying

I'm

the Hectic alt

[Nandor the Relentless]

big elephant is hardcore omgussing. MWNN/A50 are probably both town

hot take: I have a mild SR on MiniVirgo. Trying to defend A50 sounds a bit like a buddy attempt imo.

i think a lot of scum are inactive

at least 1 inactive is prob!scum, big elephant and MiniVirgo contain scum

this game is nearly solved

I searched deep in Professor's scarce ISO, and this is scum-indicative. He has scumreads on MiniVirgo and Big Elephant at this time, but also thinks "a lot" of scum are inactive... that doesn't really add up, you'd think that'd be the case if you didn't have any good scumreads in the active players. Might just be a random take he's thrown out.

@Professor Mafia:

Why were you of that belief at the time?

It's kinda hard to read him off all the other stuff, because he rarely goes into his thoughts or provides deeper reasoning. it's just a lot of takes, some of which I agree with, most of which I disagree with, but hard to know if his thought process is legit when it's all surface level. In a way, that's scummy in of itself I guess.

[Nandor the Relentless]

I just went along with what people were saying tbh

[Nandor the Relentless]

^Hectic alt desperately trying to deflect from the topic

[Nandor the Relentless]

I miss Bangle's old avatar. I thought it was very fitting

[Nandor the Relentless]

I don't really mind between Elbirn's slot or Johnny right now. At least Noraa/Tayl0r will probably be easier to read over time.

VOTE: Johnny

[Nandor the Relentless]

youd rather we vote you than present your reads? i dont understand this at all

-schwifty

Froppy's "just vote me" was a "I can see where you're going with this, just cast the vote".

This feels like it might be playing dumb a bit? Trying to appear as good faith as possible.

Tayl0r is Tayl0r though.

[Nandor the Relentless]

swizzle pops entrance is rather obviously town

imo, big elephant still scum, I'm on board with the scum!MV bits, they seem to constantly post but they arent really providing a lot of useful content and much of what they're saying is either common sense like policying N_M and also synthesizing shellyc's thoughts on johnny/elbirn.

VOTE: MiniVirgo

Prof's 2 scumreads here are pretty anti-concensus which is town-indicative for most scum.

You missed my earlier question, Prof.

Also, could you explain my shelly's still scum?

[Nandor the Relentless]

*explain why

[Nandor the Relentless]

big elephant is hardcore omgussing. MWNN/A50 are probably both town

hot take: I have a mild SR on MiniVirgo. Trying to defend A50 sounds a bit like a buddy attempt imo.

i think a lot of scum are inactive

at least 1 inactive is prob!scum, big elephant and MiniVirgo contain scum

this game is nearly solved

I searched deep in Professor's scarce ISO, and this is scum-indicative. He has scumreads on MiniVirgo and Big Elephant at this time, but also thinks "a lot" of scum are inactive... that doesn't really add up, you'd think that'd be the case if you didn't have any good scumreads in the active players. Might just be a random take he's thrown out.

@Professor Mafia:

Why were you of that belief at the time?

It's kinda hard to read him off all the other stuff, because he rarely goes into his thoughts or provides deeper reasoning. it's just a lot of takes, some of which I agree with, most of which I disagree with, but hard to know if his thought process is legit when it's all surface level. In a way, that's scummy in of itself I guess.

This one. Pretty important.

[Nandor the Relentless]

What was scummy about the intent to put Johnny on L-1, Swizzle? "???" isn't gonna cut it for old Nandor I'm afraid.

[Nandor the Relentless]

It is weird that Johnny's been consistently voting for Almo this day phase, but weird in a towny way, considering he was never a vote candidate.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Prof is continuing to either not read or is just ignoring my questions, so I won't shed any tears if he does flip town.

UNVOTE:

Claim, Prof.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Nice, and good work, Bungle. Other two scum are outside of ManNameNo, Bangle, shellyc, Almo, MiniVirgo.

Leaving... Swizzle Pop, Johnny, Froppy. huh, that's a smaller scumpool than I thought. I want to be optimistic and say I haven't incorrectly townread anyone though.

VOTE: professor

[Nandor the Relentless]

That's why I rarely play on my main.

Would Hectic know your main?

[Nandor the Relentless]

VOTE: Swizzle Pop

N2 inno on MiniVirgo
N3 inno on Froppy

[Nandor the Relentless]

I would like us to get a colourful dust that sparkles.

[Nandor the Relentless]

It would be pretty insane if we actually PoEd all 3 scum on day 2.

Realistically, I think it's Swizzle > Froppy

Almo I've largely thought was town because town!Almo jokes around and is more relaxed/unfiltered, while scum!Almo notably fakes stuff and soemtimes AtEs.

MiniVirgo and shelly are towners.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Meta

[Nandor the Relentless]

If Johnny/Prof were your scum buddies, you would've been a lot more aggressive and harsh when bussing there.

[Nandor the Relentless]

Meta is trash

might need to really change my mind on this.

Should've changed your mind when I used it in Stop the Bats

[Nandor the Relentless]

its elbirn/profmaf/johnny
I've seen the light

lol that's exactly my bottom 3 reads right now. would be very convenient but I'm not as optimistic as you.

Not_Mafia is like very, very slightly above null for refusing to hypoclaim. I think it's mostly NAI and stubbornness due to policy or something, but I think he's very slightly more likely to go along with it if scum.

I need to be more optimistic!!!!!

ggs

[Nandor the Relentless]

I had MiniVirgo pinned as cop from really early on.

[Nandor the Relentless]

People would say, "

Please, don't pillage me,

" and I would say, "

No! I'm pillaging everyone, you included!

"

Dodged all bus drives