Newbie 626 - Completed Successfully (dependent on town POV)

[Mispeled]

There is no spelling error in my name.

vote: neko2086

[/dice]

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The random [/dice] tag in my post was completely unintentional, however.

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Vote:neko2086

to make it easier for the moderator, you should bold your votes. otherwise MeMe might miss them and not count them.

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My opinion? L-2 isn't that big of a deal.

my opinion is that you are trying to get information from me. which im not going to give. but for me not to look suspicious i will answer this question by saying "im eating a sandwhich nothing more nothing less.."

Mama, the above doesn't really help the town at all, it only serves to make you look unco-operative. Which is something that you'd probably want to avoid doing, given that we're all casting about for a reason to crack out the torches and pitchforks. So far, I find you dodgy - I look forward to seeing how your next few posts unfurl.

Yeah. I think it's just newbieness, but it's still anti-town to play with that kind of mentality.

[Mispeled]

also keep in mind it is a game and I can play the game however I want correct?

\
Yeah, if you don't mind losing.

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unvote

Question to all: Who's currently on your scum-dar? More importantly, why?

For me pretty much everyone is equal at this point. I'd say MamaLuigi is anti-town, but not anymore scummy than anyone else right now. bmccleod feels a bit scummy to me, but I can't really put my finger on exactly why.

[Mispeled]

so i herd u liek secret mafia messagez



First and foremost:

If you put someone at the top of your list and are night-killed, it could be a tell as to who's who. Of course they could just randomly pick someone. I'm talking myself in circles here.

Reading into mafia kills is quite dangerous.


I'll do a quick analysis of the two people that have been the most interesting (freckles, grimmy). I'll do some others later when I get time.

Freckles:
1. Sets the L-2 vote on neko, which is supposedly a random vote. Later, he says that he thought he saw someone unvote.
2. Accuses neko of OMGUS

#1 is a bit odd, but his defense is plausible. Sometimes random votes will do that (random votes suck btw). The whole deal with him claiming to have seen someone unvote is weird, but whatever. I don't see L-2 as that big of a deal when there's no reason to believe anyone else will jump on the wagon.

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and think that #2 might have just been a misunderstanding of terminology. He just assumed that anytime someone votes for you when you're voting for them it's OMGUS, not just when it's an empty revenge vote.

All in all, he seems a bit "clumsy", if you will, but I don't find him scummy at this point.


Grimmy:
1. Votes for Freckles on the basis of his L-2 vote
2. Gets after MamaLuigi for being a noob
3. omg mudkip conspiracy

I think #1 is kind of a silly reason to vote for someone, but that's just because I had a very different view of Freckles's vote than he did. And everything has to be blown out of proportion at the beginning of the game for us to get anywhere, right?

#2 is fine.

#3 demonstrates ignorance, but probably just blowing stuff out of proportion as I previously mentioned.

[Mispeled]

I'm also a "she"

*points out that avatar is of self*

massive apologies

As for the OMGUS thing, I was under the impression it was, in fact, empty revenge.

Well, it wasn't really empty revenge. Putting someone at L-2 was his basis for voting for you... the fact it was him was (for argument's sake) irrelevant.

soo.. I don't know Im looking forward to what some of the more quiet ones are thinking.

For real. Vipza is probably gone, but Occult is lurking even more than I am.

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I've been busy with work and weekend stuff. I'll try to get a few posts in this week, and I shouldn't be too busy on the weekend.

I pretty much agree with what Occult has said. Grimmy's case is weak and possibly rooted in OMGUS, but he isn't terribly scummy in my eyes.

Specifically on his case on neko: neko has been a bit controlling of the game, but I've seen plenty of experienced players be a bit forceful in games (newbie games in particular). There's nothing inherently scummy about it, and it's pro-town in some cases when they actually know better than the rest of us what's going on.

[Mispeled]

I guess for the sake of saying

something

...

FOS Freckles for not explaining vote on Grimmy

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If we have to lynch someone, and no one is lynchable based on scumminess, MamaLuigi might be worth lynching on the basis that he probably isn't going to be very pro-town (unless he's a pro-town powerrole). I'm not saying we should go there yet, or that he should roleclaim, but it's an option to keep in mind.

[Mispeled]

unvote

but I could have sworn I'd already done that.

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Well, Grimmy is a bit scummy. Well, honestly, the only scummy thing I've seen was the OMGUS case he put up against you. The case against him up to that point was weak.

I guess you're right. He's a better choice than a throwaway-lynch like MamaLuigi is. I'd really just like to have a better lynch than that. :\

[Mispeled]

I've changed my mind. MamaLuigi is a better lynch than Grimmy I think.

vote Mamaluigi

for voting for Grimmy and unvoting Neko with no explanation.

[Mispeled]

Why not? Because you're replacing a lurker? If everyone had been active, do you think things would have worked out the same?

Because you were behind the lynch, and you have to take at least some degree of responsibility for it. Things might have been different if everyone was active, it's hard to say, but inactivity doesn't make bad reasons for a lynch suddenly change into good reasons. Put simply, you're trying to make it sound like your lynching a townie was other players' faults because they didn't stop you.

The only issue I had with the lynch was the original basis for it - the case on Grimmy initially was pretty weak IMO - I only found him scummy after he posted the weak case on neko and OMGUS-voted.

[Mispeled]

Quick player-by-player analysis. Hopefully concrete enough for you.


1. bmccleod - His early posts are pretty solidly pro-town. Attentive, and not excessively aggressive. Earlier I said that I got scummy vibes from him; honestly, looking back, I can't recall why at all.

He starts going after MamaLuigi - but just voting, not pushing for a lynch or anything like that.

(replaced by amor) - Hasn't posted much (no one has so far in D2), so not much to read into. Seems pro-town.

So generally from nothing scummy from either Bmccleod or Amor.


2. Freckles - as I said before, her early D1 actions just seemed clumsy at the time. She seriously needs to explain this vote, though:

Yeah...I'm ready

Vote: Grimmy

3. vipza said nothing at all. mzldr2's only post of slight substance was vague in every way possible:

Ok, finally had a chance to read everything a few times:


IMO, Grimmy, and Neko are pushing buttons and that leaves me wondering a little about what is behind it.

Not sure about a lot of the early action from Mispeled and Freckles..still undecided on them and will see how it plays out.

Have doubts about Mama Luigi's intentions based on a couple comments....but low on list

Kang, and Mccleod haven't given me much to go on but Kang was on my suspicious list until I realized his last post was June 11th from what I could tell.

Occult is a wild card right now IMO and really can't place my finger on it but.

4. MamaLuigi - circular logic, attempts to keep people from lynching him by confusing them. I've seen other newbies exhibit this kind of behavior.

bandwagons on grimmy on the basis that he's back from vacation but hasn't updated his signature.

Note to Amor: I changed my mind at the last minute. I figured that killing someone who, at the time, I really had no clue on, would be less beneficial than killing someone as incompetent as ML. I'd be happy go into WIFOM if you want to push this point.


5. Occult - only had a few posts but all of them had content. He was pushing a lot toward me, but with good reason.

replaced by New Coldness - this is going to sound crazy, but I'm finding him a bit suspicious

because

he doesn't find me scummy. I know that I'm scummy as hell, and I'm feeling like he's mafia buddying up to me:

Mispeled doesn't really set off my scumdar. Despite his low volume of posts, his logic appears sound and he doesn't seem content to let himself be swayed by crowd opinion, unlike what Freckles seemed to do a little (basically, pick a side and agree with it).

Meh, whatever. Just something to keep in mind.

Other than that, New Coldness seems plenty pro-town. His logic makes sense and he's up-front about everything. And LAL might be a good basis for a desperate deadline lynch.



6. neko2086 - I'm honestly having trouble reading him now. I re-read some of the early posts between him and Grimmy and I'm seeing the vote stretching that was the basis early on for his case on Grimmy.

But at face value I think New Coldness put it well - he's an asset to the town. There's a few points he brought up in some of his posts that I'm going to look at more closely when it's not right before midnight.

[Mispeled]

I fail to see how Syzygy's claim changes anything at all. It doesn't make it any more likely that you're the doctor or town or mafia in my eyes: you're still a wildcard. But I'll see how your "plan" plays out.


There's a couple of points in it that I find very, very anti-town though.

They [the scum] will probably try to get me lynched so that they don't have to worry about nightkilling me.
...
I think that about covers it. Alright mafia, bring on the votes. I'm ready for ya.

This self-interest makes you no different than MamaLuigi. You're instantly labeling anyone that votes for you as scum.

[Mispeled]

Because of what I've wrote, I'll most likely be the NK tonight, this being a Newbie game I don't see how scums will let me live to tomorrow.

But there's no reason for them to think that you're the doctor. As I've said, your claim changes nothing.

Anyway, my suspicions of mispeled are somewhat bolstered, as he has not had a real opinion until now, throwing suspicion on the doc claim.

There's a difference between people's D1 random votes and someone roleclaiming.

I find his claim very believable given ML's actions yesterday. He was obviously either scum trying to wifom us into letting him live, or a power role trying not to get nk'd.

...or another 13 year old kid who thought that being "sneaky" is the way to ensure survival, with his role being irrelevant.

Actually, I don't think Syzygy's claim could possibly be genuine. If (as he says) one of his goals is to be the mafia's target, and he's actually the doctor, that would simply be anti-town.

[Mispeled]

Mispeled, ever heard of WIFOM?

No, never.

(they can go for an NK on Syz tonight and possibly instantly know the setup)

I noticed the same thing, and I was really hoping that no one else would point it out in case the mafia hadn't figured it out.


I really think we should get off this discussion as soon as possible. Syzygy's basis for this was that he would cause the mafia to "waste" a NK. If they NK successfully and put us in LYLO, there was nothing wasted. At this point we're just talking ourselves in circles. Syzygy, in his last post, has essentially claimed townie, anyway.

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NC: I agree with you that getting a hard claim out of Syzygy is the way to go, but I don't see why we have to lynch him if he claims townie.

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I don't know, yet, whether I believe he was scum pulling some sort of gambit there. I still think he's probably town, but I'm thinking it wouldn't be a bad idea to stick to LAL. We don't need to be rewarding liars by letting them survive, and especially in a newbie game, we shouldn't be making any exceptions. As NC said, LAL exists for a reason. Also, I really don't want him here in lylo as he'll be a major liability.

So,

vote: syzygy

on the basis of LAL. If he's not scum, I'd guess IH for sure, and possibly Freckles.

syz, stay out of newbie games, plz.

Please don't let your metagame agenda make us lose this game. (I might be wrong, but that's what I feel is implied in your post.) We'll all have a nice thread in mafia discussion after the game is over.

[Mispeled]

So the question is, mispeled, if you think syz is town, which you apparently do, who do you think is scum and why?

The only player I'm not liking at this point is Freckles, for her (essential) hammer on Grimmy. It doesn't make sense that she didn't post that in the first place, and I just looked back, and it's completely inconsistent with what really happened.

I remember now that my vote for Grimmy was based mostly on the fact that despite the fact that my D1 clumsiness was just that, and everyone was satisfied that it was an honest mistake (which it was...there's a reason I'm in a newbie game) he continued to hammer it into the ground.

Call it OMGUS if you want, but seems to me that the only reason someone would beat a dead horse is because they saw a chance for someone other than themselves to take heat, and didn't want to let it go. Obviously, I was wrong, but hopefully you can see where I was coming from.

Grimmy's first post was the only one that even

dealt

with her.

I will skip the joke voting just this once, because someone already slipped up and made ashowing of their colors.

Vote: Freckles

When it was pointed out that you put Neko at L-2, you posted that you woudl have words with the randomizer, yet did NOT unvote. You said later that you saw an unvote above yours, but this is not true as the only post above your words with randomizer post was Neko telling you that you put her at L-2

I'm confused though, because you wanted to lynch syz when he claimed doc. So now, he's claimed townie and confessed to lying, and... you believe him?

I never wanted to lynch him. I only said that his actions were very anti-town. Anti-town is not the same as scummy.

[Mispeled]

This whole thing against me isn't true. Not in the least. First of all, my vote for Grimmy was not a hammer at all.

This is correct. There WAS no hammer vote. Grimmy was clearly lynched by deadline, not hammer. And the final, tie-breaking vote against Grimmy was cast by ML, not Freckles. And then everyone who was voting for neko switched to ML, but it wasn't enough to save Grimmy.

Well, this was a screw-up on my part. Freckles' vote was actually the first on Grimmy, and well before the deadline. I'd gotten events mixed up in my head and thought that his vote happened later on, and didn't go back to double check this.

Second, just because his first post is the only one you bothered to quote, does not mean it was the only one that dealt with me. Get your facts straight before you mount a campaign.

Also correct. I counted a few posts dealing with Freckles, including two contentless "no girls on teh interwebs" posts, a PBPA of neko that mentioned her,, and a scumlist that outlined his thoughts on everyone, including Freckles.

Well, I reread Grimmy's posts just now and somehow I'd completely missed #45. While my point was exaggerated a bit, I think it still stands - Freckles's defense (that Grimmy was pushing the point of her L-2 vote) is weak. (While it's probable that I've missed another post) besides the post I quoted and #45, no other post directly attacks her or anything like that. The PBPA makes reference to Freckles, but not pushing any kind of case against her.


Freckles: I'm not trying to mount a campaign against you at all. I'm just trying to move discussion beyond Sygyzy's stunt, as prompted by neko.



As for Indigo Heron, his case on ML was certainly WIFOM. Really, I'm more concerned with his "ML created chaos, and he could be mafia, and mafia would want to confuse the town, so I'm suspicious of him" than his analysis of Kang's posts.

Honestly, I still don't see what was wrong with this post:

I was also trying to see which of the scum would follow in my footsteps by adding votes to the vote count for Mamaluigi, bringing him closer (but not enough to actally do so) to lynch him.

Baiting scum onto a wagon is a good way to bring them into the open. Nothing inherently wrong with that explanation IMO, and it doesn't seem like backpedaling to me. Frankly, rereading, I find Syzygy's very strong reaction scummy.

[Mispeled]

If he was trying to bait scum, then ok, there certainly wouldn't be anything wrong with that post. But look back at his posts and you can clearly see that that is not what he was trying to do. Look at posts 175 and 177. I guess it's possible that he had some sort of master plan, but it looks to me like he was clearly creating a case against ML, even defending his analysis of Kang's posts.

Meh. I really don't know. I'm seeing him intentionally creating a very "easy" bandwagon (albeit with a weak case). I can see that as legitimate scumbaiting.

[Mispeled]

Quick word to our newbie(s) - we are in Lynch or Lose, meaning if we don't lynch a mafia, we lose. Also, because the round will end instantly if anyone has 3 votes on them, if you cast a vote for another townie, the two mafia could very quickly jump on and hammer that vote in no time.

Now then down to business, IH's hammer is quite scummy in my opinion. I don't like the fact that he hardly waited 24 hours to hammer (at the time, I didn't realize Syzygy was at L-1, so didn't see that bit of IH's post as significant), not giving anyone, Syzygy in particular, a last chance to respond. This is especially bothersome to me because IH's basis for his hammer was Syzygy not defending himself.

[Mispeled]

It's irrelevant how much time he had. You make the assumption that "he stopped caring about the game" when for all you know he could have had some sudden LOA come up. Saying you're going to hammer and not give him a chance to defend himself is not good at all, especially when there is other active discussion going on (the discussion about Freckles and then about myself).

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I already contacted MeMe about this a few days ago, but I'm going to have no (or at the very least VERY VERY limited) internet access at all from tomorrow until next Friday. Since we're in LYLO I understand if you'll want to replace me in that time.

[Mispeled]

I'm too busy to read at the moment but I am back. I'll post tonight or else sometime tomorrow.

[Mispeled]

Sorry... I kind of forgot about this game. With school getting ready to start up and stuff, it just slipped my mind..

I've had issues with IH since his hammer D2. I think a Freckles/IH scumpair is certainly a possibility.

And at this point we can be sure that either Freckles or Amor is one of the scum, correct?

[Mispeled]

@Mispeled: What issues have you had about my hammer?

This series of posts


tl;dr - there was other active discussion going on and you hammered before syzygy posted again.

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Anyways, I know I'm not scum; I'm something else entirely.

So are you going to claim or not?

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MeMe: any chance of a break on the deadline if Freckles doesn't show up?

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I still

really

don't like IndigoHeron's claim, especially for the fact that he didn't counter-claim Sygyzy when he was hounding him for every single reason. It seems like when IH claimed now, he would have mentioned that as a factor for his vote on Sygyzy.

But at this point we might as well be positive that either Amor/iago or Freckles is scum. I've felt all game that Amor was pro-town, so I'd also be just as happy with a lynch on Freckles.

vote freckles

Hope for no hammer from iago :\ If so, well-played neko.

[Mispeled]

I'm also thinking that Indigo Heron is scum for all previously mentioned reasons. The fact that he hammered Freckles makes no difference - it was clear at that point that it was inevitable that Freckles would be lynched, and inevitable that IH would be the next target. He had very little to lose by bussing a scumpartner.

[Mispeled]

k

vote Indigo Heron

Can I do a scumdance of victory now?

[Mispeled]

@Mispeled - YOU ARE SO MEAN!