Newbie 626 - Completed Successfully (dependent on town POV)

[Freckles]

Apparently Amor thinks it's between myself and Neko, and as I know my role, I took a good look at Neko's game.

Post 3, he casts the first vote of the game, for Mispeled. (Obviously random.)
25. Voted for me for putting him at L-2. (We've covered this, I'm retarded.)
By post 52 He is very controlling of the game, throwing around accusations as rapidly as defenses. (Hard to make sense of, and/or follow his opinion.)
Grimmy made a PBPA of Neko, which I admit, I didn't take to heart much as I was pretty sure Gimmy was scum. I quote much of that PBPA now:

My PBPA of Neko
----------------------
P3, joke vote
P15, questions Mamaluigi’s vote on Neko, May be OMGUS. Asks for logic behind vote
p20, ML says he doesn’t like Neko with eye rolls
P23, Neko informs freckles that this is her third vote on her.
P25, OMGUS vote on freckles for not unvoting note that she attacks my posts when I vote for the same reason.
P35, says its not OMGUS because she has reason for the vote, questions if freckles will vote her again.
weak case for vote, weak case against declaring OMGUS on it.
P40, acknowledges Freckles joke, unvotes freckles, declares Grimmy’s reason for voting Freckles as “forced”
This last part seems like a “If I’m not voting her anymore, why are you?
P41, edits prior post
P48, dismisses Grimmy’s reason for voting Freckles as irrelevant. Asks who is more suspicious, Freckles or ML.
Again, trying to lead other peoples votes is suspicious. Is she protecting Freckles or trying to lead the votes?
P52, dimisses ML’s reasons for his gameplay, follows up with an attack on ML (which many of us were doing at this point BTW, but this seems to be Neko’s way of playing) More bully tactics
P54, avoids Kangs question and turns it back on him.
P56, acknoledges ML’s possible shift in game play
...

Summary.
Neko has been overly aggressive in this game to the point where she is trying to lead everyones votes and discussions, and has been very controlling with her responses. The bullyign tactics are very scummy, as is the hypocracy vote (voting for me for stretching for votes when we are 4 days in and not many people have posted, accusing BM of scum leading when you did the same)
-------------

87. Says that the game can, and has to be, played without WIFOM. (though, it seems to me that anytime anyone brings up a valid point of discussion with which he disagrees, he brushes it off as WIFOM and says it's pointless.)
95. I said that he had defended himself to my satisfaction (which I take back now, having thoroughly read the case on him)

114. He demands we either jump on a badwagon or present a case (to be fair, we were under deadline)
118. Neko tied Grimmy for most votes
131. he tells us to look at Kang and Occult if Grimmy turns up scum. (Why??)
144. I point out Grimmy being town looks bad for Neko but that it may be too obvious and I think he's ok (again, I take it back)
145. Neko mentions doubts about ML, says Occult feels like scum, calls me awkward and says Msldr is wishy-washy. (That's a lot of suspicion to through around in one post...)
164. Votes ML and demands he defend himself. (I am under the impression that you don't vote for someone until you've heard their defense and find it weak. You don't give your judgment before the trial)
178. He's still on about D1 (?)
193. Unvotes and says he's not opposed to a IH lynching today.
203. More WIFOM accusations.
210. Asks Syz for a hardclaim
213. Nudges NC about his stance on IH
216. Is disappointed when Syz admits vanilla
241. Agress Syz's IGMEOYs were suspicious, votes Syz
255. Says it's ok to bait scum, but that's not what IH was doing, he was making a case against ML.
265 Mentions NC as cop, who NC suspected and doesn't really say much.

These are not all of his posts, just the ones I found of note. Now, as per my above stated belief, I will not vote before hearing a defense.

[neko2086]

Where have I misquoted you?

Kang being nightkilled gives us so little to work with. *shakes fist at scum* And all these replacements are so hard to keep up with

The whole Neko Vs Grimmy, and Grimmy being town looks bad for Neko, but it's too obvious, I think, so I don't think Neko is scum.

I remember thinking at one point that MamaLuigi seemed scummy, but now I can't remember exactly why (dammit!) A re-read is definitely in order.

That was Freckles, not me. Minor point, I just wanted to clarify that.

Well, he presented a case behind it so I wouldn't really call it OMGUS.

He only

looked

for a case because I voted for him.

Apparently Amor thinks it's between myself and Neko, and as I know my role, I took a good look at Neko's game.

So, since Amor thinks it's between us, it must be so? I think it's between you and IH, so what do you think about IH? What about Mispeled? Amor? This

is

lylo, so I'd hope you're not going to limit your focus to one person, regardless of whether it's me or somebody else.

Says that the game can, and has to be, played without WIFOM. (though, it seems to me that anytime anyone brings up a valid point of discussion with which he disagrees, he brushes it off as WIFOM and says it's pointless.)

Anytime somebody uses WIFOM as an argument, I dismiss it as WIFOM. Please give me an example of myself dismissing a valid point as WIFOM.

I said that he had defended himself to my satisfaction (which I take back now, having thoroughly read the case on him)

Why are you taking it back? Be specific. My defense was good enough before, but not anymore?

he tells us to look at Kang and Occult if Grimmy turns up scum. (Why??)

They were absent at deadline. Turns out they were just absent and needed to be replaced, but I'm always leary of people who miss deadlines.

I point out Grimmy being town looks bad for Neko but that it may be too obvious and I think he's ok (again, I take it back)

Again, why?

Neko mentions doubts about ML, says Occult feels like scum, calls me awkward and says Msldr is wishy-washy. (That's a lot of suspicion to through around in one post...)

That was also at the beginning of D2, when everybody has to be critically considered.

Votes ML and demands he defend himself. (I am under the impression that you don't vote for someone until you've heard their defense and find it weak. You don't give your judgment before the trial)

Not everybody plays that way. Votes are retractable for a reason. If it were a hammer, I'd agree with you.

178. He's still on about D1 (?)

I'm questioning how much you're reading into these posts. I was asking Indigo about his reasoning for voting ML, which was all based in D1, so yes, I did mention D1. I don't know what you're trying to get at here.


The above are, I believe, your major points. The rest is a pbpa. I'm finding your case a little vague. I'm not even sure I understand what your case is, exactly, or why you're singling me out, especially considering that this is the first time you've posted today and you're considering voting me without even

mentioning

, much less questioning, anybody else.

[MeMe]

"No Votes" Count

:

Everyone

(0):

not voting

(5):

Amor, Freckles, Indigo Heron, Mispeled, neko2086

Three to lynch.

[Freckles]

Neko, you saw how long it took me to put that post together, I never said you were the only one I was looking at, you're just the only one I've posted about as of yet.

[neko2086]

These are not all of his posts, just the ones I found of note. Now, as per my above stated belief, I will not vote before hearing a defense.

This very much sounded like you were about ready to vote me. That, with the comment about Amor thinking it came down to us, etc., I was under the impression that you weren't really planning to look into anyone else.

Can you just clarify, then, was that an analysis of me or a case against me?

[Freckles]

At the moment, no, I can't, I'm drunk

But I can say that if I were ready to vote, I'd have voted. When I started making that post, Amor's "Frecks or Neko" bit was the only thing I had read, so it was the only thing I had commented on.

I do plan to look more into other players, for sure.

As for the case or analysis against you, the main thing I see is your apparent need for controlling the game and everyone in it. I seemed that anyone that didn't play to your liking was either scummy, or just plain wrong. To me, this screams scum.

[Mispeled]

I already contacted MeMe about this a few days ago, but I'm going to have no (or at the very least VERY VERY limited) internet access at all from tomorrow until next Friday. Since we're in LYLO I understand if you'll want to replace me in that time.

[neko2086]

I seemed that anyone that didn't play to your liking was either scummy, or just plain wrong.

Again, this is pretty vague, so if you can qualify this somehow with a quote or something, that'd be great. Same with many of the points I've responded to above.

Now, I feel that I've given good reason for not liking somebody's play at any given point. I may be playing more aggressively in this game than I do in others, but I'm really not trying to be a jackass. I'm not really trying to 'control' anything either. You'll find that some players here are far more aggressive and controlling than I am. As far as I know, I haven't personally attacked anyone or used gratuitous profanity, for example. I'm trying to be a helpful IC. Sorry if I haven't.

Anyway, it sounds like you were doing more of an analysis than a case. I thought you were trying to put a case together, so you can pretty much ignore my last paragraph in 276 as that clears things up a bit.


Mispeled, by next Friday, do you mean Aug. 8 or 15? If it's the former, I don't think you'd need to be replaced. The latter, yeah, and you may want to give your last input now.

[Amor]

Okay, Freckles not even defending herself from my case is pretty damn suspicious.

neko, sorry, that was just a mistyping.

IH, what are your thoughts on who is scum?

[Indigo Heron]

At the moment, the person who strikes me as the scummiest is neko. He's been very aggressive in this game, leading the town to lynch people. I didn't suspect him that much until now, when we're in LYLO, since it struck me that he could be scum trying to mislead us into lynching the wrong people.

As for his accompalice, I'm still combing the game for edges.

[neko2086]

Again, do you have anything concrete to back that up? Otherwise, it just sounds like you're pretty much echoing what Freckles said.

He's been very aggressive in this game, leading the town to lynch people.

Lynching people is what this game is about... so... yeah.
I'll bite though. Here are the two lynches:
D1- we were under a deadline and nothing was happening. Grimmy was our best option (disagree? please tell me why)
D2- I didn't even

lead

the syz lynch, so, your statement isn't even all that accurate.

? for you- why didn't you suspect me much until now?

[Indigo Heron]

It's a hunch. I'm looking for credible evidence to back it up.

[neko2086]

why didn't you suspect me much until now?

[Indigo Heron]

Don't make me repeat myself twice.

After reading the last few posts, I think that Freckles is a candidate for scum. Note that she has not really defended herself against any accusations levelled at her by her fellow players.

I may also detect a neko-Freckles connection here. I see Freckles trying to attack him to gain the trust of the townspeople when he comes up as scum. That way, if either is lynched, the sinner is...well, lynched, while the one who survives ends up looking like a saint.

[neko2086]

I'm only asking because it's a bit suspicious to me that you haven't suspected me until 2 people started making cases against me. If you had something concrete to back it up, maybe it'd be different, but, it just seems a little opportunistic.

[Amor]

Well, not much activity recently. I think everyone has chimed in here, with the possible exception of Mispeled who is V/LA. With that in mind I am planning on voting Freckles soon, does anyone have any objections to that?

[neko2086]

Still waiting to hear more from Freckles, including responses to recent posts, as well as the analyses on the other players.

[MeMe]

~bump~

[neko2086]

Freckles still has some talking to do, but in the meantime, I'll present this so that we don't stall completely.

the scummiest person that I have now is MamaLuigi. He is a loose cannon, and he admitted that he may or may not be scum. His 'hiding in plain sight' tactic may be him calling our bluffs.

Besides that, the general content of his posts are not helping us one bit. It could be that he is scum trying to sow discord among us by doing so.

Of the posts included, the person whom he makes the most references to is Mamaluigi. He believes that Mamaluigi has such a scummy feel to his behaviour, he might very well not be one. However, I beg to differ.

vote: Mamaluigi

Again, quoting my previous post, he may be bluffing us, and until he actually defends himself or comes clean, or if there is someone scummier, or if someone convinces me otherwise, my vote is on him. Another thing that motivated my vote on him is that there is no one else to go after, or there is no amount of cutting evidence that proves that they are scum compared to his.

Kang related the most to Mamaluigi in his posts. Mamaluigi also seems highly suspicious to because of his scummy behaviour. I'm calling his bluff. You never know when those people hiding in plain sight may very well be the ones who are scum.

Indigo clearly states that he thinks ML is the scummiest person at that point.

Well, since Mamaluigi is gone, I feel that our new replacement has given me a pro-town vibe. Finally, we have some discussion going!!!

unvote: Syzygy (if my vote on Mamaluigi is transferred over to him)

OK, so he's changed his mind because syz gave him pro-town vibes. This is fine, but just note that a change in mind has taken place.

I wanted to generate some discussion in this 'dead-end' game by voting for him. I was also trying to see which of the scum would follow in my footsteps by adding votes to the vote count for Mamaluigi, bringing him closer (but not enough to actally do so) to lynch him.

Here is where it all falls apart. This is a

huge

backpedal. He made it very clear that ML was the most suspicious, and that he changed his mind when he got

pro-town vibes

from syz.

Now, I was quite sure that someone would bite my gambit - the WIFOM-y nature of the post was to trigger people to respond in a way that I wanted them to; I was running possible scenarios of it in my head.

If the whole point was to get scum to join the wagon, why did you unvote when syz joined in? Why would it matter if your 'target' was replaced? If you were truly running a gambit, you wouldn't have cared about 'giving a replacement the benefit of the doubt.' Rather, you would have kept your vote and continued your experiment.

Also, how were you expecting scum to react to 'the wifom-y nature' of your post? By calling you out on wifom? By agreeing with you and voting ML so that you could say 'ha! only scum would have agreed with me there!'?

And, let's not forget, if you

were

running such a gambit, it would mean you were lying when you said ML was the scummiest to you. It wouldn't even clear you as town, as you could easily be running the gambit as scum trying to catch a townie agreeing with you. Any way you look at it, you lied at some point.

Now, when the second most proactive player in this game and a lurker get killed off, how else would you go about it? You call it Scum's Conscience, I call it 'trying to put myself in the shoes of the scum and figure out what they're doing next'.

Hence the assessment of the assassination, and the post-by-post analysis of Kang's history in this game.

the WIFOM-y nature of the post was to trigger people to respond in a way that I wanted them to

Your stories are not lining up.

Moving on to other things, though:

Practically everyone has said the reasons for voting Syz to be lynched. However, the straw that broke the camel's back was the fact that you did not even bother to defend yourself. You were at L-1 for several days, and not one reply regarding Syz has been mentioned. This giving up on the game is what convinced me to vote for you.

The 'you haven't defended yourself so I'm going to drop the hammer' post.

Trying to make a case, are we?

Again, I see no reason for a townie to ever react like this, especially,

especially

in lylo. We're

all

suspects, that's the point of the game.

It was his fault that he failed to specify his period of absence. Are you trying to tell me that it's my fault he failed to do so?!

This was clearly not the intenion, so this looks like a straw-man. For anyone not familiar with the term, it's a logical fallacy in which person A twists person B's words/argument into something completely different, then attacks it.

The last few poss, I've already addressed, and I encourage you all to reread them. I just want to add:

I see Freckles trying to attack him to gain the trust of the townspeople

when

he comes up as scum.

If you're so sure I'm scum as to say 'when' rather than 'if,' why are you not voting me yet? You even admit you haven't found anything concrete yet, and still, you're banking on my turning up scum.


So, to answer Amor, I'd much rather lynch Indigo today. We still need to hear more from him and Freckles, though (and mispeled, whenever he gets back).

[MeMe]

I really don't want to deadline this...

[Amor]

Okay, I think we've waited long enough for Freckles to post some analysis. Here goes.

Vote: Freckles

*crosses fingers and hopes that he hasn't just lost us the game*

[neko2086]

While we're waiting for Freckles to post something, Amor, what do you think of my case on IH?

[Freckles]

I'm sorry you guys have been waiting on me. I posted in my sig that I have limited, to no access until August 18 (obviously I have a bit as I'm here, but not enough time to construct the post(s) I need to.)

I'm sorry I didn't post my hiatus in the thread, I thought the sig would suffice

[Mispeled]

I'm too busy to read at the moment but I am back. I'll post tonight or else sometime tomorrow.

[neko2086]

Sorry Freckles, I didn't see that.