mini #585 - A Tempest Has Formed (Over), Thanks Patrick!!

[alvinz95]

Confirm

[alvinz95]

2 more people...

[alvinz95]

vote: marmalade

because everyone knows strawberry jam is better.

[alvinz95]

FOS: marmalade and EvilGorrillaz. Random-voting someone who can't post doesn't do much good, in my opinion. And EvilGorrillaz seems quite bandwagon happy.

We are supposed to know you can't post? -.-
Also, how are we supposed to get discussion going if we don't apply any pressure?

I agree that Evilgorrilaz is wagon happy and that could be dangerous for the town, but considering the situation, a bandwagon could be more helpful than not doing anything. Wagoning can be used for scumhunting or for scum. Right now, a bandwagon would help the town because it can make the scum give off hints that they are scum. If he tried to wagon on a real discussion, then that would be scummy. I'll keep an eye out for any more bandwagons after the random phase. - evilgorrilaz

[alvinz95]

I agree that Evilgorrilaz is wagon happy and that could be dangerous for the town, but considering the situation, a bandwagon could be more helpful than not doing anything. Wagoning can be used for scumhunting or for scum. Right now, a bandwagon would help the town because it can make the scum give off hints that they are scum. If he tried to wagon on a real discussion, then that would be scummy. I'll keep an eye out for any more bandwagons after the random phase

There's something I dont like in this post. Do you feel it?

Can you explain this feeling? Or are you starting a wagon? Just asking. I won't jump to conclusions too quickly.

And I agree, alvinz, that bandwagons are a very important part of the game, and "bandwagon hunting" isn't always bad. It was just something else I noticed regarding EvilGorrillaz' behavior that is occasionally considered scummy. Without the other stuff, I probably wouldn't have even included it in my post.

Exactly what I meant. If EvilGorrillaz had done it in a situation like when it is Day 2, everyone is exhausted and wants to close up day because there is nothing more to discuss, and throws down a wagon, then the FoS, or vote is going down on him depending what he has done before.

I'm on board for a "evilgorrilaz likes bandwaggoning" bandwagon, so

Unvote, Vote: evilgorrilaz.

LOL. Thats so ironic, and contradictory, but evilgorrilaz is wagon hyper, and that is more dangerous to the town, so the FoS goes down.

FoS: Evilgorrilaz

I would advise not using an excuse of the type "I am not experienced, and therefore sorry for my mistake."


unvote, vote:CoheedCambria09

Kinda quick voting, and vote hopping. Probably just a newbie move. But, I'll keep this move in mind.

Sorry guys for not quoting properly, way too lazy.

[alvinz95]

Woops, forgot.

Leaving random vote phase?

unvote

But strawberry jam IS BETTER than marmalade!

[alvinz95]

Alvinz, please explain why I deserve an FoS, even though you say urself that bandwagons early really mean little. Oh, and how am I wagon hyper?

1. You deserve an FoS since you are wagon hyper, and is a warning for you. I didn't do it before, because I was in quite a rush to leave.
2. You are wagon hyper because you tend to join or make wagons, which usually isn't great for the town, I'm just putting an FoS as a warning, or first offense. If you do it again along with increased scummy behavior then the vote goes on.
3. I said bandwagons have different connotations depending on the situation.
Right now, bandwagons may be helpful to the town in scum-hunting, but later it may expose scum.

Also, do you think that newbiness is an ok excuse for scummy play?

After one occurence of newby behavior that can also be considered scummy, it is fair enough to let it slide as newbish, but when they consistently do it, then it is more clear than he's more scummy. Thats why I said that I would keep it in mind

[alvinz95]

Urrrghh! I just had a nice long analysis of everyone, then the internet died!

Evilgorrilaz

: The least townly because of his likeness of bandwagons. Dangerous if he successfully starts a bandwagon. Good person to look out for.

Populartajo

: Something fishy about his last post. Seems to be giving limited information, and trying to start a wagon on me, by asking everyone if they thought my comment was weird. (can you explain?) You usually post a lot more in depth. Are you trying to hide something? And is your vote on evilgorrilaz a random vote or a serious vote?

Gaspode

: Overall seems the most townly, but I'm not entirely convinced yet, since it is at the beginning of the game. By the way, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

Marmalade

: So far, hasn't elaborated on comments. (Most are one sentence long). Too little to tell. Leaning town.

Mellowed Man

: Has done some controversial things, which could go as newbish, unless he consistently does them. Vote hops, can't see a real reason to vote, just because coheed said he was a newbie, besides being scummy, or newbish. Second most scummy.

Ashmite

: Can't really tell, hasn't done anything townly, so I'm leaning more on the scum side.

iamausername

: Leaning towards town, though his vote on evilgorrilaz is quite ironic. not much left to say...

CoheedCambria09

: I'm thinking newbish, could go either way, not much to analyze.

Cream147

: hasn't posted anything besides a random vote. Prod?

Hypatia

: hasn't posted anything besides "I don't random vote" post. Prod?

Elias_te_thief

: No posts. Prod?

[alvinz95]

I have a theory going on populartajo's post... It might be a stretch, but its worth the try.

There's something I dont like in this post. Do you feel it?

It is as if he's asking his scum partner to back him up on this. Saying "Do YOU feel it?". Other wise, he's trying to start a wagon with that question, which is scummy considering he started it without even getting on it.

Then, the only person who says so back is Marmalade.

I'm going to re-read Alvinz, but something feels slightly off about his posts so far. Not quite sure what, exactly.

Communicating in-game? Sly, but I may have caught you.

What do you think about this theory?

[alvinz95]

Can everyone post who they think is the most scummy, and who is the most townly, and explain why?

It will speed up some discussion.

Least townly

: Evilgorrilaz is the least townly mostly because of his odd behavior, and bandwagons. If he does it again for a bad reason, then I'll consider a vote.

Notable posts: Post 41, 50, and 65. Sillyness? Scumminess? I don't know for sure, but I'm leaning scummy.

Most townly

: Gaspode. He has posted the most deep posts with more consistency, and has given his thoughts on everything.

[alvinz95]

I'm not a big fan of rundowns in general, especially organized mass ones. I just don't find them all that productive. Also, I almost never think about who's "most townly"--my focus is always on who's most suspicious.

Actually, people stating who they think is the most townly could prove to be useful later, when scum is lynched or NK'ed by the vigilante. Scum may have stated their partner like that, if they were stupid enough. But you do have a point. This is scum-hunting.

I really want to cast a vote, as I feel like I started a trend of wimpy, game-slowing FOS's, but I'd like to hear from the lurkers (i.e. Cream, Hypatia, and Elias) first. I feel like there's a good chance there's at least one scum in the crowd of lurkers who's just getting a free pass.

I agree. I leaning towards Elias because he is definitely experienced, (2128 posts!), and his scum record is considerably high and has been scum 11 times (not like it has anything to do with this game, but hey, it might! ). IC's usually won't lurk like that. I'm not sure at all, but if there is one scum in those group of lurkers, then I'd say Elias.

@alvinz
IMO too early for rundowns. Not enough content to go on.

It still can't hurt to do a small one.

[alvinz95]

I'm with you on the anti-lurker feelings, but singling out Elias, no. ICs lurk all the time. And the bit about his high scum record is the very definition of Gambler's Fallacy. I really don't like the bit I've bolded especially, and the whole post in general seems like an attempt to start a bandwagon based on some really shaky evidence, with enough disclaimers put in for alvinz to weasel out of any responsibility for it.

I don't think Elias is scum at all (lynch all lurkers is a bad policy), but, what I meant was that if there was scum in that group then I would say Elias. I'm not starting a wagon at all. I was just agreeing with Gaspode on the lurker opinion and giving a thought on it. Non of that was "evidence" to support a Elias lynch, because he is BY FAR, not on my scum list, because lynching someone just because they are lurking is not townly at all, especially if they have only posted one thing. The scum record was just tagged in for fun hence the parenthesis and "not like it has anything to do with this game, but hey, it might" which shows that it was merely a small joke. And, in the games I've played in, IC's usually don't lurk, and will give a heads up if they're going to be away. I find that you are getting irritated of such a menial thing like a small comment on lurkers, which isn't scumhunting, but just a thought. And you've misinterpreted some parts like the overall meaning (you think that I'm seriously scum-hunting, like using statistics as evidence, but I'm actually not) which is scummy.

It also holds a big sign above someone's head saying "Scum, here's your night kill!" I really don't think the potential positives (which, as you say, only apply if the scum are stupid, and it's always best to assume they aren't) outweigh the potential negatives.

Did you read my "you have a point"? And can you reexplain "Scum, here's your night kill!" I'm not too sure what you mean. Can't scum determine who's most townly them selves? (if that is what you mean)

small fos: imamausername

[alvinz95]

Alvinz seems to be the either "totally defensive" or "totally agreeing personality."
At the same time, I just have an instinct he is scum.

For example, he says "I'm just saying" whenever he's trying to make a point, as if he's afraid that someone is going to point fingers at him. It bugs me..

Or, he will say I agree with you, on something or the other. He seems to be wanting to make what is nothing into something, and it looks poor =(

I've noticed is that everyone is just trying to suspect me by saying, "I have a bad feeling about him...." and uses some evidence that can't totally support a vote. Kind of weird, but I'm fine with that. It seems like scum is trying to lynch me, but that makes no sense because 5 people have said that, so trash that. UNLESS, people are wagoning this idea.

Your logic is also townly play. Being careful is townly. You wouldn't indiscriminately lynch players, and preserving yourself is the goal for all roles while hunting for scum. All players are afraid of getting accused. If no one was, then there would be scummy play everywhere. Say you are the cop (very important role), you definitely want to stay alive since your information is crucial to a town victory. And the "i'm just saying" thing only applies to my small comment on lurkers. (correct me if I'm wrong). The town is always poor on the first day. You get almost nothing, and hope for something.

Your logic to me applies to every role. I like your thinking though. Will be helpful for the town later.

I'm still for Evilgorrilaz as scum right now...

alvinz: Retarded logic when placing me the most likely scum among the lurkers.

You're right. There is no logic in finding scum among lurkers because they don't post.

[alvinz95]

Avinz95 is catching my suspician as well, mellows logic seems to be heading in the right direction.

Can you elaborate in this, please?

Its called a wagon.

[alvinz95]

I agree with Tajo that CC09 was not bandwagoning--he didn't vote, he fos'ed. It's really more just being a newbie sheep than wagoning. Sorry to pick at semantics, but bandwagoning is such a frequently-used term that we can't really afford to have it misused.

It was merely a joke, hence the random short ness.

[alvinz95]

Sorry I haven't posted as much as I like people! I'm not intentionally lurking, though it's quite clear that I am lurking. I haven't got into the feel of this game yet. However, I have just gave it a quick reread and that has got me back into the swing of things.

I am not liking alvinz at the moment for several reasons. First, he singled out Elias among the lurkers, and used incredibly bad logic to back it up. Someone said why would alvinz try to single out someone as experienced as Elias. Maybe because Elias is experienced?! (good idea to get rid of experienced people yes!)

I don't think Elias is scum at all (lynch all lurkers is a bad policy), but, what I meant was that if there was scum in that group then I would say Elias.

Even after your logic was shown to be stupid,

you continued to go with it

! I don't see where you're coming from there at all.

Just because Elias is IC doesn't mean anything.

I think that the small FoS on iamausername is

COMPLETELY

uncalled for. No one's really noticed that, but I have, and it's for a

poor reason

. I agree with iamausername about your idea to get everyone say the most townly and most scummy. To me, that's most useful to the scum as they can collect information such as 'Who shall we nightkill' and 'Who shall we scapegoat next'.

All this makes you the most scummy player in my books at the moment, and definitely earns you a Vote:alvinz95. Please comeback on all of my points.

I hate these posts. To me, you have poorly reread an misinterpreted what I said. I've explained most of those points you've made, yet you have failed to understand.

First off, thats a lot of reasons why I "definitely" earn a vote (sarcasm).

Liike 2

. Again, do you think I meant to lynch him? And does my crap-logic contribute to scumminess? No, its just logic I tried to make up to comment on Gaspode. All the things that are held against me are things that I've posted to comment on everyone's posts, like a good town member, always joining conversation. And, the least townie, most townie thing was to "speed up conversation".

Second, on elias the thief.

Maybe because Elias is experienced?! (good idea to get rid of experienced people yes!)

So you're saying I'm trying to lynch him? Why would I lynch a lurker? You haven't reread the thread I'm pretty sure. Again I say, the crap-logic was just a reply, not real scumhunting. If I wanted to lynch him, maybe I would put a FoS or a vote on. And refer to what populartajo said.

Mmm, why would he (a relative newbie) would suspect Elias (an experieced player) and for a weak reason? Wouldnt newbie scum avoid this kind of players?

Lastly, WTF?

I think that the small FoS on iamausername is

COMPLETELY

uncalled for. No one's really noticed that, but I have, and it's for a

poor reason

.

So just because I put a SMALL fos on iamausername for a "poor" reason, then its COMPLETELY uncalled for? Thats

OVEREXAGGERATED

. If I voted him, then that would just be uncalled for. And if I said "iamausername is scum!" then that would be COMPLETELY uncalled for. No, actually making him claim would be completely uncalled for. I find this as a poor reason to add to your list of scumy actions so your vote seems more valid.

definitely earns you a Vote:alvinz95

Are you serious? These reasons that have already been tooken up, and replied, and one other pathetic, poor, reason, results in a DEFINITE vote? I see this as scum trying to grab a chance to lynch as cream sees a wagon, except there isn't enough stuff to say. You may call my stance defensive, but this attack is a ridiculous scum move.

MAJOR FoS: Cream147

[alvinz95]

I'll hunt you down and kill you.

Now we're

pretty fcked up becuase Elias is scum.

joke

[alvinz95]

often scum are intelligent enough to deduce who

we

think is town

Who we? You have just mistakenly given your role out maybe. For now...

Vote: Evilgorrilaz

Comes off when you can properly explain.

[alvinz95]

Ok. Weird. When i first read it, i thought it said that we=the scum. Second time, it made more sense. Lol.

unvote

[alvinz95]

First of all,

I don't like your reaction. And your comeback to me makes you officially scum.

If you count the reasons, there are 4. Two are connected by elias, but I still count them as seperate reasons. At this stage of the game, that's a fair few. I think that bad logic does contribute to scumminess, because it could be intentionally trying to confuse the town. I agree that joining in with the conversation is a good thing for the town, but you've got to hold yourself responsible for what you say nonetheless! When I'm scum, I still join conversation as much as possible. I find the game more fun that way.

Nope, there is only 2. I counted. Reason one: I used crap-logic to single out Elias out of the lurkers. Reason two: I smalled fos'ed iamausername. You're trying to make your attack seem better by lying, just like scum.

So crap-logic confuses the town? No, have you seen the towns reaction? They understand it as "crap-logic", not confused. And can anyone explain how a confused town would effect the game? I'm not sure. Crap-logic -> confusing makes no sense. Its just bad logic. What the hell is this defense?

Weak and bad logic, and reason why I'm scum. "Because when I'm scum, I still join conversation as much as possible" So your THIRD reason is because YOU join conversation alot when you're scum, then I must be scum!! BAD, CRAP-LOGIC. If you follow this logic, then Gaspode is scum, and Elias the Thief is scum, Evilgorrilaz is scum, Mellowed Man is scum. And the townies are lurkers.

So you knew I had read that populartajo quote also, but hid it! That is REALLY scummy in my books, trying to trick people into thinking I hadn't read that.

My point was that as scum, getting rid of an experienced player who is town is good. You don't seem the kind of person who would cower at someone because of their join date either.

Why did you jump to that conclusion? I must have misread it. It was hidden in there, and I just didn't catch the "someone said" part. I thought you said "Why would alvinz try to single out someone as experienced as Elias." Now that you bring it up, you didn't even answer that. Jumping to bad conclusions too quickly -> Scummy. Sorry bout that. But what makes this part scummy is how quickly and how bad the conclusion was. Why would I trick people into thinking you hadn't read the post? It would make no difference what so ever. Again, it seems as if you are trying so hard to find some things to back it up, you can only get some scraps. And again, you OVEREXAGGERATE. Tricking is REALLY scummY? No, and it wasn't even tricking. I didn't catch the "someone said". You could have quoted it, or mentioned "populartajo" Overall, if you had no idea what I said, and it was just rambling, basically, your reaction is a bit "out-there" and scummy because it was odd and complex and you tried to use it against me, and that I didn't even catch the "someone said" part.

All you've done here is say how this is only a small fos. Well if I just randomly gave someone a small fos, what would you say? I would say that was COMPLETELY uncalled for. You still haven't defended your reasoning for giving that small fos, which was, as I said, poor. You attempt to make me look stupid but still don't actually defend yourself. It's quite a sneaky way of deflecting pressure, and certainly nothing that is useful to the town.

Ok, If you don't know the reason why I put the FoS down, then you're blind and you haven't reread the thread completely.

I find that you are getting irritated of such a menial thing like a small comment on lurkers, which isn't scumhunting, but just a thought. And you've misinterpreted some parts like the overall meaning (you think that I'm seriously scum-hunting, like using statistics as evidence, but I'm actually not) which is scummy.

How is my FoS COMPLETELY uncalled for? You are overexaggerating, and trying to scrape up some crap out of my posts to use against me. And yes I've already defended myself in post 101. And yes, you already look stupid calling a small FoS "COMPLETELY uncalled for", coming up with a very bad conclusion that I was trying to trick people in thinking I hadn't read that, then using it as a scum-tell, and using how you play ("when i'm scum, I still join conversation as much as possible") as a scum-tell. And using all that as support for a "definite" vote.

Sorry, but as you claimed that this attack is a ridiculous scum move, I see no reason why you hesitated to vote me. Trying to keep the suspicion off yourself by not voting for someone just because they voted for you?

And, you jump to conclusion that I "hesitated" to vote you, when I have a different style of voting. I don't vote randomly because of one scummy thing. I FoS when some move is scummy (like post 100), and vote when there has been 2 very scummy posts or 3-4 scummy posts, if anyone has played with me, you'll know. What made your post major FoS was how scummy it was. Now that you've done another very scummy post which is why I

Vote: Cream147

.

I don't see how you can see this as a simple attempt to jump on the bandwagon because normally bandwagoners, particularly for the the scum, don't give reasons. I gave a post, with reasons mentioned before, and one (that you dismissed without giving any defense) of my own creation.

You are a bandwagoner because only one real reason was how I singled out Elias, and other people had already used it. You tried to add more by adding some scraps from my posts.

However, I must thank you for this post, for it gave me more reasons to assure me that you are the right vote.

Riiight. Thats why Elias liked my reaction, and Gaspode found nothing wrong or great about it.

[alvinz95]

what? no prod?

[alvinz95]

I was gone for 5 days (since april 16th as you can see), so I think I shouldn't be replaced. It is supposed to be for 1 week, 7 days, and it has only been 5 days. And no prod.

[alvinz95]

I'm pretty sure that was a mistake, and LaptopGun is actually replacing ashmite84, who requested it a while back. It's pretty easy to get those names confused.

I hope so.

[alvinz95]

Its ok. As long as I can stay in game. Sorry laptopgun!!! That must really suck for you. I don't want this game to be abandoned!

[alvinz95]

Yay! Now this game can go on.

[alvinz95]

Hello.

Hola.
So are you like the brother of Patrick? Hope you can give us some good points on scumhunting and speed this game up and re-liven it.

[alvinz95]

I really dislike his stance on Elias_the_thief. He seems to be trying to get an easy wagon on somebody experienced. Besides that, he has been unimpressive. Pretty scummy.

A wagon? Why would I want to start a wagon on Elias? He probably is one of the contributors and starting a wagon on him would be untownly! And every knows that it was crap-logic, but seriously, it wasn't for a wagon, for a lynch, or any means of scum hunting, and I was just trying to contribute. You can go ahead and call that comment "a means off brushing it off", but If i were to try to let it slide, I would just have ignored it.

What shocks me the most is that you've taken a liking to creams arguments. Most of the arguments he puts on the table are quite pathetic.

Makes strong attacks on alvinz95 which sound logical. Could be distancing though. I'm thinking protown.

(Sarcasm)
Yes, because a small fos is definitely a reason to vote someone. And "I was trying to trick her by saying that she didn't read populartajo's comment", which is totally a by no means a reason to vote. Putting a major fos down rather than a vote is definitely scummy. And all those reasons put together makes a for-sure reason to vote. Yes everything is

logical

.

So are you teamed with her or are you scum pals? Or do just a liking to very bad back-up?

I'm not liking your first post, because you have allied with cream, or scum partners, and you don't give much support in saying that almost everyone is scummy except coheed, cream, iamausername, marmalade. Nice.

Fos: Matt S

[alvinz95]

Alvinz, since you admit that that wasn't scumhunting, why did you think it would help the town?

It would help discussion moving as I said before... Like random votes get discussion rolling but they aren't scum-hunting.

[alvinz95]

Back. Busy at school. =X

[alvinz95]

And I'm still waiting for a good defense, alvinz95. I haven't forgotten about you. Do a "View all posts by" search for me if you don't remember my reasons.

I'll redefend myself after school today.

I have nothing to say on the Matt vs Scruffs argument yet. I'll wait till it plays out. A bit lost in this game.

[alvinz95]

For now, I will vote: alvinz95. Partly based on Mellowed's logic of being agreeable and careful, also somewhat based on the fact that he seems to be trying to take charge of the game and be extremely helpful. Sometimes this means someone's just a useful pro-town person, but it can also be a scum tactic (especially for someone who's been around for a few months--long enough to be trying different stuff like that, but not long enough to know it is extremely difficult to pull off). Finally, post 101 is one of the worst posts of this game--in addition to many other problems, the quote about "he is BY FAR not on my scum list" is either incredibly stupid townness (starting Elias off on the innocent side of the spectrum, rather than in the middle) or more unnecessary scum friendliness.

1. I was scum-hunting. Not taking charge.
2. Of course the "by far" part was exaggerated, it didn't mean that he was for sure confirmed town.

[alvinz95]

Confirm vote: Matt_S

More votes please.

Expalin your confirm vote. Are you trying to start a wagon with "more votes please"?

[alvinz95]

Scruffs, what do you think of Mellowed Man's vote hop and attempt to start a wagon?

[alvinz95]

Cream147 - Arean't you the one who bandwagoned onto Alvinz because he was suspicious of Elias_The_thief, a move apparently scummy because Elias was an experienced player and thus scum want to get rid of experienced players?

Yes, that's me. So what.

He means that its hippocritical of you to call Mellowed Man scummy for doing what you did.

[alvinz95]

Completely different! I criticised Mellowed Man for vote hopping and lack of reasoning. You can't accuse me of either of those things. You can accuse me of poor reasoning if you'd wish, I would disagree of course, and no doubt you'll accuse me of bandwagoning. Not vote-hopping and lack of reasoning though.

What is so different from poor reasoning and lack of reasoning?

[alvinz95]

What is so different from poor reasoning and lack of reasoning?

You tell me, Mr. CrapLogic.

Again, do you think I meant to lynch him? And does my crap-logic contribute to scumminess? No, its just logic I tried to make up to comment on Gaspode. All the things that are held against me are things that I've posted to comment on everyone's posts, like a good town member, always joining conversation. And, the least townie, most townie thing was to "speed up conversation".

Did I say it was scummy?

What is so different from poor reasoning and lack of reasoning?

You're defending the words that you put into his mouth.

Rephrase?

[alvinz95]

There isn't much of a difference between poor reasoning and lack of reasoning. It isn't scummy either.

[alvinz95]

Prod Marmalade

Hasn't posted since MAY 2ND.

Also

Prod Populartajo

[alvinz95]

Also noticing Gaspode and Matt doing some serious attacks against Alvinz, where did this suspicions start?

I'd hardly call it serious for me, but alvinz declares the reasons behind Skruff's questions and then pursues those reasons. It looks like he's trying to hide from blame by following someone else's line of questions.

If I believed it was scummy, then I would pursued it immediately, since Cream is already at the top of my suspicions, but I didn't notice it at first. I don't agree with Scruffs tho.

[alvinz95]

Well, why did you assume to know was why Skruffs asked?

Well did I have to include,

"i think...."

??

[alvinz95]

I would like to add some things to my statement to prevent any future confusion

There isn't much of a difference between poor reasoning and lack of reasoning. It isn't scummy either.

It is only scummy when someone is trying to get on a wagon and uses poor reasoning as a reason why.

Wow, since my last post, alvinz has been acting incredibly weird. The opinion that we're actually missing here is Skruffs', and I'd like to see his view on alvinz this page. I'd also like to know if alvinz was right with his assumption on what he meant.

Are you trying to blend into the crowd or is this your own thought? Can you show me exactly what you thought was weird and why?

[alvinz95]

You are insinuating that everyone should assume the person you want us to vote for is guilty until proven innocence. Townies have one weapon: Mass consensus. There is no reason to be coerced into voting who another player wants to, and they should never be obligated to find reasons NOT to vote someone that they don't want to. The downside is that if the person that they don't want to vote turns up to be scum, that person THEN might be probed and prodded as to WHY they refused to, so it IS better to explain why at first. But only scum's scummates or a cop would KNOW that the person they are refusing to vote is scum in the first place, so demanding reasons for NOT voting someone BEFORE they turn up as town or scum indicates that THAT person (Matt_S in this case) is the person in questions scumbuddy.

Overall what are you trying to say? I got lost in your words....

[alvinz95]

Mod, can I have an updated vote count please?

[alvinz95]

Either Coheed or popular is the vote for the day, neither of these playeres are really going out there and stating their observations. Let's just do this.

Is that all? Are you saying that not doing anything is a scumtell? Thats not much support for a vote.

Coheed - you voted cream just because he stopped his aggresiveness? Or is it really just to get to Night 1?

[alvinz95]

Is this game going anywhere? All votes are even at 2....

[alvinz95]

Here's an unofficial one:

TOTALLY UNOFFICIAL Vote Count

, powered by The Count-Counter 2000

CoheedCambria09- 3 (Marmalade, iamausername, evilgorrilaz)
Cream147- 3 (alvinz95, populartajo, CoheedCambria09)
alvinz95- 2 (Gaspode, Cream147)
populartajo- 2 (Skruffs, Mellowed Man)
Mellowed Man- 1 (Elias_the_thief)

Not voting (1): Matt_S

7 to lynch.

Why no vote, Matt?

---

Also, trying to get all 12 names from memory reminds me that we need a

prod/replacement on Marmalade especially, and probably prods on Elias & Gaspode

wouldn't hurt.
We also need to just freaking lynch someone (eg. Coheed) already. 20 pages in, and I don't think anyone's even had HALF the votes required for a lynch at any one time.

For your convenience:

Good votes = Coheed
Acceptable votes = alvinz, Mellowed, Matt

Let's pick one already.

Sorry, my computer is fucked up and important files were deleted including the copy and paste function.... only internet works. xD, So bear with me.

Are you implying Cream isn't a good lynch? Do you find Cream townly? Why are you asking people to vote Coheed? (if you were scum, this could very well be a move to lynch a townie quick) What makes mellowed man and Matt S acceptable lynches?

If you can explain the whole Coheed argument in one post, in PERSUASION, I might consider voting Coheed. All i've gotten is that he's been unactive and has done nothing.

[alvinz95]

I'll tell you again. My computer is screwed up, so can't copy and paste.

Quote: last 2 post of Coheed.

What iamausername, and Cream said. Worthless defense, bad scum move to just say, "Hey, you guys will be surprised and will feel bad when you lynch me!" And no, lurking is not a reason to lynch someone. Trying to drag to Day 2 is scummy as that is what scum want to do. Letting people do all the work and contributing little a bit. So far, since the wild argument with Cream, I've seen more protown play and my suspicions have dropped. So I'll

unvote

. I'll wait for more moves from Coheed.

[alvinz95]

Evilgorrilaz, if I was opportunistic on Coheed's lynch, then wouldn't it make more sense If I had actually

voted

him?

Elias wagon? Hmmmmm.... just for fun. xD

Vote: Elias the Thief

Obviously temporary until I pick up some more scummy stuff.

Just wondering, I've never been cop, so how do they give you the results? Do you just ask and they say, "soandso is a ______", or is it like "so-and-so is mafia, or town"?

Populartajo, I find that you have a completely different type of game in this than in 556. No scumhunting, just hanging around. Scum?

[alvinz95]

NAAAAHRRR

[alvinz95]

unvote, vote Elias

What is wrong with you? Your random voting really deserves something to look at.

unvote, Vote: Mellowed Man

Stop wagoning and looking for the easiest kill.

[alvinz95]

Hmmm, I'm surprised that you think I'm not too active. Good analysis. And how could Marmalade havea town to neutral? I with you on Mellowed Man. 24 pages, Day 1, no deadline is pretty pathetic.

[alvinz95]

If you agreed with this line of thought, why did you say nothing about it the first time it was used?

Merely borrowing your quote

In all honesty I thought that by using your quote I was agreeing with your previous uses of the quote. But apparently I lack communication skills.

Vote: Mellowed Man

His last post basically sealed it for me. Also this day is dragging on. Quite honestly I share coheed's sentiment about wanting the game to go into night now. 24 pages for a day 1 is TOO LONG.

I believe thats L-2.

[alvinz95]

L-1. It's not the right time to hammer yet. Let's give Mellowed Man one more chance to actually claim. If he refuses again, then I think we should lynch him. Agree or disagree?

Agree.

[alvinz95]

Fine I'll claim:

I'm a doctor, and I don't really mind if you lynch me anyway, as my presumptive conclusion is that people are going to start saying "dude that doesn't make sense, the doctor shouldn't play like that" or whatever.

But hey!

Maybe I'll live to see tonight, maybe not.

OMG! Everytime we get someone to claim it ends up to be a powerrole! Now that both power roles are revealed it means that most likely we lose them tomorrow (doctor gets blocked if theres a mafia roleblocker, and cop gets killed is the normal scum play in this situation). This is depressing.... 2 months, 2 revealed power roles, and 28 pages of CRAP.

[alvinz95]

forgot to

unvote

[alvinz95]

Looks like he knows for sure that Coheed & Mellowed's claims are true. Plus he was high on my suspicion list already for things mentioned earlier.

I have to agree that this is quite suspicious, as it looks like alvinz knows more than he should.

I would have to disagree on the case that I "know" that they are power roles, because scum would rather stay on the wagon and not believe it rather than believe that they are power roles. Isn't that just basic sense? Scum would really try to lynch a power role Day 1 rather than waste their kill at night. But still, cream did the same thing, but no one has targeted him....

Alvinz, do you have any reason to think the mafia have a roleblocker?

No, but in every game i have been in so far, there has been a mafia blocker.

[alvinz95]

Ok, I think I'm going to go with a vote on alvinz.

Vote: alvinz95

for all the reasons that I've mentioned before and can't be bothered to repeat, and because Mellowed claims doc so we're not lynching him.

Of course, I say again, they were all bogus reasonings. (Most of them)

oh my god you suck. you are now the last other person that I feel scummy.

Vote: Cream

[alvinz95]

Me either, the only thing is that I believed both claims, which is contradictory, cause scum would do the opposite.

[alvinz95]

From the top:

Populartajo: Something fishy about his last post. Seems to be giving limited information, and trying to start a wagon on me, by asking everyone if they thought my comment was weird. (can you explain?) You usually post a lot more in depth.

Are you trying to hide something?

And is your vote on evilgorrilaz a random vote or a serious vote?

Goin' fishing!

Hide that he's scum with ?marmalade?

Post #87 & #94: alvinz really wants people to post a rundown of most scummy and most townly players. #94 also has his ridiculous thing about how Elias is more likely to be scum than other lurkers, which I don't feel he ever gave a satisfactory defense for.

Thats your opinion. Simple for you to understand. Experienced = usually post more. Experienced lurking > Inexperienced lurking

I've noticed is that everyone is just trying to suspect me by saying, "I have a bad feeling about him...." and uses some evidence that can't totally support a vote.

This is a nice way to try to avoid having to defend yourself against the specific evidence being brought up.
?

I'm totally not reading his argument with Cream again, it's just noise.

Why? The horrendous arguments put against me aren't scummy except a dumb comment on Elias is?

I have nothing to say on the Matt vs Scruffs argument yet. I'll wait till it plays out.

"I can't tell if I might be able to get a townie lynched out of this yet."

?

There isn't much of a difference between poor reasoning and lack of reasoning. It isn't scummy either.

I don't know how this didn't get more of a response at the time. Poor reasoning and lack of a reasoning isn't scummy, guys. alvinz later amends this to say:

It is only scummy when someone is trying to get on a wagon and uses poor reasoning as a reason why.

Presumably because he's going to want to use 'poor/lack of reasoning' as a reason to vote someone else later on. But we can't use it against him, because he wasn't trying to start a bandwagon, he was just making conversation!

Yes.

If you can explain the whole Coheed argument in one post, in PERSUASION, I might consider voting Coheed. All i've gotten is that he's been unactive and has done nothing.

Then in his very next post:

Quote: last 2 post of Coheed.

What iamausername, and Cream said. Worthless defense, bad scum move to just say, "Hey, you guys will be surprised and will feel bad when you lynch me!" And no, lurking is not a reason to lynch someone. Trying to drag to Day 2 is scummy as that is what scum want to do. Letting people do all the work and contributing little a bit.

Seeing some incosistency here, in particular the mention of Coheed "trying to drag to Day 2" since no one had brought this up since alvinz claimed that all he saw on Coheed was "he's been unactive and has done nothing".

OMG! Everytime we get someone to claim it ends up to be a powerrole! Now that both power roles are revealed it means that most likely we lose them tomorrow (doctor gets blocked if theres a mafia roleblocker, and cop gets killed is the normal scum play in this situation). This is depressing.... 2 months, 2 revealed power roles, and 28 pages of CRAP.

Don't think I need to explain again why this post is scummy.

I would have to disagree on the case that I "know" that they are power roles, because scum would rather stay on the wagon and not believe it rather than believe that they are power roles. Isn't that just basic sense? Scum would really try to lynch a power role Day 1 rather than waste their kill at night.

alvinz, saying you believe something is not the same thing as actually believing it. And this is wrong in either case; scum would obviously believe a townie claiming doc/cop, because townies shouldn't be lying about that. And I'm sure scum would love to lynch a power role rather than "wasting" their NK on it, but un-counterclaimed power roles are not going to get lynched except in exceptional circumstances, which this is not, so trying to push those wagons by saying you don't believe the claims would be pretty futile.

I'll tell you why I believed mellowed man's claim. When I claim.

---

Also, I'm going to quote these two posts every time alvinz makes a post without answering the questions contained therein:

Alvinz, since you admit that that wasn't scumhunting, why did you think it would help the town?

It would help discussion moving as I said before... Like random votes get discussion rolling but they aren't scum-hunting.

And did you not think that by that stage of the game (Post 94, most of the way through page 4, btw), there were more useful things you could be doing, like, say, actually scumhunting?

Never got an answer to this, alvinz.

(If you need some help, this is in reference to your "Elias is the scummiest lurker, because he's experienced!" craplogic.)

But still, cream did the same thing, but no one has targeted him....

What same thing has Cream done, exactly?

I'd still like an answer to this question, btw, alvinz.

Already answered. Sorry, find the answers.

[alvinz95]

No! not another power role? Yes sucks like FUCK.

I am your

Nurse

. That is why i believe that Mellowed Man is the doctor. Mellowed Man, you may think that I'm not because "you were not notified" but thats how it is. (I was the doc once, and there was a nurse and I wasn't notified). I didn't know who the doc was either in the beginning. Now I'm confident that Mellowed Man is the doc.

[alvinz95]

That doesn't mean that they aren't in game. They are POSSIBLE roles.

[alvinz95]

Vote: alvinz95

Good job. Go scum.

[alvinz95]

I think that you can tell who my partner is.

[alvinz95]

I think that you can tell who my partner is.

So, you only have one?

If you believe, you can achieve!

[alvinz95]

Someone already knows my partner(s).

[alvinz95]

Iamausername = big yellow bus

[alvinz95]

Iamausername = big yellow bus

I assume you're trying to say he bussed you here. Pretty much clears him then, though that's WIFOM I suppose.

Joke people!

Yes I have very bad jokes.

[alvinz95]

Ack, all my fault. If Poro had just targetted cream....

[alvinz95]

He was roleblocked! How could he have?

Oh ok, don't know how i missed that.