Timeshift Mafia III [Game Over]

[Almost50]

@Comm:

No, and Yes (let's confirm someone, but let's NOT expose their role).

I'll be honest: I haven't exactly “read” anything yet. I just took a quick glance on the jest of it. I do not plan on doing a “proper” full read either; meaning I won't be reading the whole thing post by post and word by word (You guys have broken the record for shit posting %age). I may read some sections thoroughly, but only if I'm prompted to (or feel the need to). This also has to do with the number of replacements that occurred that it's going to cause me a real headache if I tried to track each slot to it's original occupier and their successor(s)). I intend to keep up starting D3 though.

Any questions/remarks?

Now why is Vifam still alive?? Tywin needs to step up as a Town leader and get this lynch over with. James needs to step DOWN his high heels and get in the mix. Nero needs to open his eyes and actually "do a Nero" (I know you CAN). Too bad RC replaced out. I could have worked with him, but Yume is fine too.

There is still a 50% player base that I have never played with before (at least not with these usernames) so it might take us a while to get acquainted, but let's first show respect to each other and try to work with each other.

[Almost50]

ok why is RC town?

1- Because that's his Town play
2- Because Scum!RC would have NEVER replaced out at this game status. Scum are literally cruising, and he is the "Best Manipulator". All they really need is 2 more mislynches coupled with 2-3 NKs and they'd win it already. You hink it was hard for RC to push for one more mislynch?

I suspect RC didn't ONLY replace out because he was furious. In my mind it had to do with him being the preferred NK target for a number of payers, so he was partially saving the SLOT from being NK'd.

Now please help me lynch Vifam. This is NOT "apahetic" Vifam (you did see that version in our last game together). This is "lying low" Vifam. The fact he got close enough to being lynched on D1 and the day magically ended in a NL should prove to you beyond any doubt that he was being protected by his team. 0-1 Scumsters were on his wagon by the end of the day.

[Almost50]

Note that Comm's offer deliberately precludes him proving that hes actually a rolecop (not that that would prove his alignment). If he just town-confirms someone, that won't show that he knows their role. If he simply states that a role is in the game, there will be no way to disprove it.

on top of it, how likely he could find PR N1? And by offering reveal role he admitted it's PR

Let us first define a "Power Role". When you say PR, do you mean anything that is "Not Vanilla"? Or do you reserve the title to actually "Roles that have POWERS"? In my mind, I would not call -say- a Fruit Vendor a PR. Nurse, Deputy, and pretty much any backup role is NOT a PR in my definition until they actually get promoted and take charge of the role itself.

Also, Comm doesn't really need to prove his role. No player in their right minds would fake claim a Role Cop to begin with (your fake claim must be something easy to prove). Also, I have no doubt in his alignment also because of the TIMING of the claim.

Now let's say I'm Mafia, and someone claims ONE SHOT Cop. Why -on the plane- would I even care to counter?? First of all, other than James there were 16 other souls. Assuming 4 Scums that makes it 75% likely James will hit Town. The right play is to let him be and take him out at night. Period.

Even better: Keep your mouth shut (assuming you're Scum and regardless of your role) and see if another TOWN PLAYER counters or even crumbs. Why provide cover for "another investigative" by claiming (or fake claiming) yourself, when you had everything under your control.

Let me say it again: If I was Scum, and REGARDLESS of my role, James comes out and claims 1-X Cop, and I will embrace it to my heart in waits for someone else to CC. If it happens I have TWO Town PRs who willingly gave me their roles w/o me even saying a word, and I have the choice to take either of them out silently. If nobody steps up, then James is probably confirmed Cop, and I will take him out anyway, without having to claim ANYTHING.

Now let's consider the opposite. Let's ASSUME James is Scum an is fake claiming. He lives to D3, and his team tries to kill Comm a night. hey fail, he claims a guilty on Comm, Comm gets lynched, and James is the default lynchee of D4 (first Mafia player caught). Meanwhile, Mafia have already mislynched 2 (including a Role Cop) and killed 2 (taking into account the delay of kills, which is now compensated by an NK on N1 and no kills on N2).

Now I'm NOT accusing James of being Scum. All I'm saying is if we consider the timing and nature of both claims and if we assumed there's definitely one Scum in these two it'd be much more likely the 1-X Cop and not the RC. However, I think they are both Town TBF.

Finally, due to having 2 full days of VCs (and today being the third) with Vifam being on the focal point of both days, there's MUCH more info to be gained from his lynch (even if he flips green, which he won't), while lynching Comm now gives us next to nothing.

VOTE: Vifam

[Almost50]

@Ramcius:

How do you even know he didn't check JAMES?? and how do you know he DID find a Pr and not just testing o see who wants to know what so as to reevaluate his reads based on the info he got? Your attitude is that of a reckless scumster. You seem to have dropped your guard and go too confident this Town is too blind to see anymore. You -and your team- have got this game by the neck.

@Nero:

Don't be silly. We're NOT lynching Yume before she gets to play in the game. Period. This has nothing even to do with reads. Let's give the girl a chance to PLAY.

[Almost50]

In my mind it had to do with him being the preferred NK target for a number of payers, so he was partially saving the SLOT from being NK'd.

there are only two killing roles as far as I know. If we assume RC is town why would either mafia or the SK EVER shoot at that big piece of mislynch bait?

1- Because it was RC, and you and I both know how hard it is to get him lynched.
2- Because they don't know what ROLE he had. For all we know he could be the Vigilante (he did recommend a Vig shot on you, but he left before it was time for him to submit the action).

If I' ever Scum (of any alignment) in a game with RC, I do NOT want him alive by D2. EVER. I would probably shoot him over anyone else in the game.

[Almost50]

@Tywin:

Can you work with me on this? From my skim I go he feeling you were the only player trying to play "Mafia" and not shove in your emotions in the middle. Everybody else is being emotional (or faking it) or is pursuing a "wild guess" that they're bending every rule for it to be "falsely" the case.

[Almost50]

@Vifam:

You stay and you fight like a man. Even if I'm wrong about you, you should be taking to me. Quitting doesn't make you a great player, and -frankly- I would have expected MUCH more from you regardless of your alignment.

FTR; I'm Town reading Nero, but -just for the sake of argument- if I had came out shouting he was Scum and we should lynch him; do you think he would have requested a replace-out? Replacing out is for sissies if not done for genuine RL issues. It's only a game, you know, so PLAY THE GAME YOU SIGNED Up TO PLAY!

[Almost50]

Apparently you didn't read my post. I got a guilty result on Comm. He is confirmed scum.

So, what you're saying is:

1- You ARE a Cop. A Normal Cop. That was NOT a fake claim.
2- You checked Comm and he returned a GUILTY.
3- Scum are so stupid they let you live for two days and two nights o return a guilty on the one and only player you were ever going to check. I mean, even Stevie Wonder could see who you were going to use your one-shot on. It was both "a personal thing" as well as "the right thing to do".

Your result could mean we have a Framer or a Redirector in play. Framer however is no normal (but is it BASTARD??) while redirector classification is unclear on the wiki.

Tell me something: Did your mod-provided PM say "Comm is.." or did it say "Your target is.."??

[Almost50]

Sooo... I'll out one thing and one thing only. I'll let you guys choose. Do you want to know the role I found or who I now 100% town read because of the role I found?

obv we want the townread

Obviously, he checked YOU.

[Almost50]

THAT is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. I have faith in certain players to PLAY the games they sign up for, and I had thought Vifam was one of them.

FTR, I have yet to replace out of a single game I signed up for or replaced in.

[Almost50]

RC CAN handle the heat. He can push back and he could redirect lynches a his own will. It would takes a united a resolute Town Block to get him lynched. Ad to that the fact he LIKES to play Scum roles.

Vifam on the other hand doesn't much enjoy being Scum, and when under heat he cannot defend himself very well. Vifam excels when he is relaxed and no pressure is on him.

So you see, one was in control of the situation, the other is obviously being run up by many. Vifam was saved once by his team. Doing it again would be suicidal for them.

Why do you not want Vifam lynched today?? What exactly did he do a game to make you think he might be Town?

P-edit:

RC was NOT getting lynched. He even replaced ou when i was apparent who WOULD be lynched. It wasn't a scum rage. I was TOWN FRUSTRATION.

[Almost50]

Goddamn keyboard. When in doubt, try putting a "t" at the start, end or middle of he word(s)!!

[Almost50]

Seriously, Nero. Now I'm willing to risk the whole game on you being Town (and if not, I surrender already, because you are NO going to get lynched either). Now I want to work with you as a player who CAN get things done.

Let's first start with the last 4 VCs from D2:

Pepchoninga [L-4]

ssbm_Kyouko

, PeregrineV, Vifam, Havingfitz, Nero Cain
RadiantCowbells [L-4]

ssbm_Kyouko

, Havingfitz, Nero Cain, Vifam, TTTT
RadiantCowbells [L-5] Havingfitz, Nero Cain, TTTT, PeregrineV
RadiantCowbells [L-6] Havingfitz, Nero Cain, TTTT

ssbm_Kyouko flipped Town already. PV evenually voted Vifam, so he was trying to avoid a NL. That's TOWN behaviour, and I'm not going to prove to you that you're Town. So..

Vifam+fitz on Pepcho. He replaces out and RC steps in. Vifam unvotes then revotes (!!) Was he NOT scum reading the slot? Was he trying to avoid a confrontation with RC? Either way, that's scummy a and by itself. He only voted again when he saw the "let me stay away from him" gesture didn't work.

TTTT joined the parade promptly. fitz stayed on it all the way. PV rejoined, bu both ssbm & Vifam had left (Vifam for the 2nd time), then PV joined the bigger wagon to ensure a lynch, but why did Vifam also vote there? Survivalism? I mean, he obviously voted the Pep/RC slot on 2 occasions, so it wasn't like "let's just lynch someone" as he maintained on D1. Furthermore, Vifam had claimed his own lynch would give info to Town, but has relentlessly fought it back whenever it became near. Why? What info is he now DENYING the Town from getting upon his flip??

I can see fitz having a genuine SR on Pep/RC. I can see you having one, an I can see TTTT either developing one on RC or heavily opposed to lynching ssbm. I already explained PV, so you explain what Town moive could be behind Vifam's voting behaviour, as well as him promoting his own lynch but -at the same time- fighting against it.

"I would have hammered myself if I got to L-1" he claimed. Now he is replacing out for being pushed again. Why would he do that? If he was willing to get lynched 2 days ago, and was even willing to hammer himself, why doesn't he either fight back today or live up to his word and walk bravely to the gallows?? I've never before seen a player who had a death wish AND got upset by being FoS'd. Can you help me see the Town perspecive in this behaviour?

And OF COURSE he would push on RC. RC was determine to lynch him and he had no other alternatives. But did he have a genuine scum read on RC? If so, why did he unvote not once, but TWICE?

[Almost50]

Now this:

ssbm_Kyouko [L-0] CommKnight, TTTT, Vifam, Elena Fisher, TheFuzzylogic99, Ramcius, Havingfitz, Nero Cain, Tywin Lannister

This was a mislynch, so it most probably had some Scum on it. Who?

Now let's compare to D1's Vifam [L-2] RadiantCowbells, Firebringer (Elena Fisher), Ramcius, ssbm_Kyouko, Land of Xanth, XnadrojX, PeregrineV

Note that RC was NOT on the mislynch, nor were Xanth, Xnadroix or PV (the PV that wanted to ensure a lynch goes through on D1 was NOT on the mislynch of D2). Only Elena & Ramcius were o both wagons (apparently wanted a lynch on D1 as well), while Comm, TTTT, Fuzzy, fitz, Nero & Tywin are on the mislynch but not on the D1 final leading wagon.

I'd say you and Tywin are Town All Town. I'm comfortable calling Fuzzy Town as well (You'd notice I'm concentrating on players I have previous and most recent experience with for now). This leaves me with Comm (whom I've shown why he can't be Scum), TTTT (neutral/null for me) & fitz (Scum lean), as well as Vifam himself.

But you know what? Pick at least TWO (maybe even 3) Scums from Comm/TTTT/fitz/Vifam. Unless you suspect Tywin and/or Fuzzy, OR you think both Elena and Ramcious are Scum (which makes Vifam also a mislynch so that's why hey were both on him too)

So, Vifam flipping red = a closer look at those who were against his lynch. Vifam flipping Green = a closer look on the two who were on BOTH mislynches. Either way we narrow down the lynch pool and have a couple of semi-confirmed players.

[Almost50]

there was no n2 kill

but how you know no one was attacked? or here you won't get PM, if you get attacked at night, but survive?

Generally speaking, you don't get informed if you got attacked, and if you're a doctor you don't get notified if you saved your target either. A PGO doesn't get old whom the shot if anyone, and so on.

Only on very special occasion may you be informed if you got attacked (for example, if you were a X-shot BP AND your PM said explicitly that you will be notified of how any BP shots you have left).

So, nobody knows (but scum) if an attempt to kill failed last night.

Again, theoretically speaking: I suspect the scum can't kill on consecutive nights, or maybe they have a delayed shot. I don't think the timeshift only applies to non-killing action. Our Watcher claimed their action was no delayed, and they also got Nk'd on N1, so maybe if you have a delayed action the shot on you is delayed and if you have normal action (or no action) you get killed on the same night you got shot? I don't want to get too deep into setup and mechanics speculation, but I'm giving it a go to explain why we only had a kill on N1 and none on N2.

So;

1- Scum have delayed shots
2- The kill resolves according to target action (delayed/instant)
3- Scum shot at BP or protected by Doctor target
4- Scum cannot kill on consecutive nights
5- ???

Let's keep all possibilities open for now until we see what happens on N3. If we have one body then 3 & 4 are more likely, and 2 is still possible to an extent, while if we have more than one kill then it's either 1 or 2.

[Almost50]

oh well, then no reason to delay, i'm jailkeeper and jailed Havingfitz N1, timeshifted to N2

Then THAT is our lynch of the day!

VOTE: Havingfitz

Inb4 someone argues he was the TARGET. Mo way fitz is targeted over half a dozen others at he very least. Give me ONE REASON that would make Scum shoot fitz over -say- one of the two claimed Cops. Ok, granted, one "could" be a lying Scumster. How about the other?

Lynching fitz = red flip = confirming Comm as Scum. To me his means fitz wanted to shoot James tonigh but was JK'd so the kill didn't go through, which explains why James DID get he result (so my argument about scum letting him live is void).

Scum opted to kill the RECKLESS Watcher who not only claimed, but also gave details such as their action was NO delayed, so they were a higher priority over the 1-shot Cop who would only get his result on D3, so could be killed on N2 with no problem.

That's 2 Scums caught I say. 2 more to go (and there might not be a Serial Killer after all. There is no indication of additional kills on either nights so far).

[Almost50]

Btw, fitz flipping Mafia confirms Ramcius as TOWN JK, so I am due for an apology for suspecting you, mate.

[Almost50]

Btw, some earlier thoughts (that have proved to be WRONG )

I had thought James to be a PGO when he claimed that early. I thought he was baiting Scum to come his way on N1. That's why I still had doubts about him being a Cop, although I had him down as Town still.

P-edit:

No. they only know if they have submitted an action and it failed, so it could be a Jailer or Roleblocker (but since it's a KILL it could have also been though to be any type o protection on he victim)

[Almost50]

!!!!!!
So, out of ALL players, Comm checked fitz, Ram jailed fitz, and Mafia shot at fitz??? Is that what you're trying to tell me?? Well, it does NOt compute at this end like AT ALL.

First of, what ARE the chances of almost EVERYONE targeting the same player?

Second, Comm checking him means he was "not sure" about him. Ram jailing him means either he was sure fitz was a POWERFUL Town role (thus protecting him) or suspected him for Scum (thus tried to prevent him from taking action). No why would the Mafia try to shoot a player with this status? And WHY OVER TWO CLAIMED COPS? I even think PV claimed investigative, but I think he was joking.

If we only consider their "authority" in the game (so to speak), then why over Nero for instance? It doesn't make sense AT ALL. Can somebody explain it to me?

P-edit:



Regardless of anything else, I find it amusing for you to back a Comm lynch when he just claimed you were Town-all-Town based on your role!! I didn't see that one coming!

P-edit2:

@Ram:

More amusement for you, mate. Comm says a "Vanilla Role" cannot be Scum, meaning there can't be there Mafia Goons.

OK, I'm stepping back 2 steps to take a look at he bigger picture (can't stop laughing though). There seems to be some confusion between he Mafia itself.

So, either fitz is telling the truth, thus Comm is auto-lynched today for his result alone )no to mention the guilty on him from James), or Comm is telling he truth, thus we have TWO guilties in James and fitz (and a VI in Comm who thought whatever fitz' role is cannot be Scum). Either James is telling the truth, thus Comm is one bad Mafioso who has been feeding us shit all the way, or James is Scum and Comm is Town = fitz is lying Scum and Comm is still VI).

Now the BIG JOKE would be if fitz AND Comm are Scum together and fitz didn't check the Scum PT nor did he read Comm's post about him either. It amazes that he pretends to have read everything and didn't even comment on Comm's result on him.

Work it out between you guys. I'm going to watch you try wriggle this one.

[Almost50]

@Vifam:

THANK YOU for keeping my faith in you.

[Almost50]

Btw, we need to lynch between James and fitz for starters to decide on the next lynch. fitz claims a VT and James claims to have already used his one shot so is effectively a VT for the rest of the game. (Actually I should say Vanilla for both because we don't know yet if they're Town).

Out of the four; Ramcius is the one I'm NOT lynching today no matter what. We need to solve this dilemma/fiasco.

P.S. Now wouldn't it be even funnier if we got one more claim by someone else?? That's be HILARIOUS.

[Almost50]

I think Comm is telling the truth but honestly everyone is playing so fucking weird this game

If Comm is telling the truth then either fitz is lying or Comm is the worst player ever!!

Like both cop claims are just doing everything they're not supposed to do it's amazing

James claimed prematurely and unnecessarily, granted. But he did check the one target he should have.

Comm also claimed prematurely and unnecessarily, but also his check on fitz is astonishingly odd.

@Comm:

Do you have extensive experience with fitz from before? I mean, can you explain why you picked HIM to check over everybody else?

Actually the same question can be directed at Ram: Why did you jail fitz in particular?

[Almost50]

@Ram:

Yes, I saw that and it's still making me laugh. I'm for lynching fitz still for starters, unless someone shows me a better option.

fitz flipping red = Comm red = James green

fitz flipping green = Comm is BAD TOWN = James is Scum

[Almost50]

Cool. So you had a SCUM READ on fitz already (doesn't surprise me as I had him as a scum lean myself).

Now tell me, how likely -in your own opinion- for a Role Cop to have also checked him? Also, let assume -for the sake of argument- that fitz is actually Town; so how likely he would be the NK target as well?

Moreover, how can you explain Comm saying fitz has a role that can prove you Jk'd him while fitz claiming to be a mere VT?

Finally, could you please put the three names in question in order from best lynch to worst? The three of course are Comm, fitz & James (you won't be naming yourself, and I have you as the one I won't lynch of the four anyway)

[Almost50]

@fitz:

See this? I'm kissing yet another ass here. What do you think of that??

P-edit:

@fitz:

VERY good point!

[Almost50]

Also, scum could have targeted ssbm night 1

Why would Scum target ssbm on N1 AND let him get lynched on D2?? That's a wasted shot. Besides, why ssbm in the first place? Again, why him over TWO Cop claims (one of which must be Town)?

Also, where is the SK kill for N2 then?

[Almost50]

Assuming Com flips Scum, who would be his teammates?

@Ram:

You do need to respond to fitz Q: If you jailed fitz, how come Comm got a result on him still?

Theories.. theories...

What if fitz is a Mafia PR (say their strongman) and Comm is their bus to clear fitz for the rest of the game? It may have started with Comm trying to clear fitz, but then it backfired and they had to bus the already unneeded Goon who fake claimed earlier to try and mislynch the Cop?

With Comm flipping Scum all claims fitz was his partner would disappear, so he's on a highway to endgame.

[Almost50]

Hmmm.. fitz is either VT = Comm is lying, or is Scum = Comm is lying!!!! I can't see a Mafia player (no even someone playing their very first game) getting a VANILLA result and thinking this can't be Scum.

I'm torn between wanting to lynch the weakest claim of the trio, and going for the one who made no sense as either alignment! GEEZ! There was once a game (I think mentioned either by Mastina or Titus) where there was a COP who was ALSO the SK. Maybe this is the case here, and Comm wanted to keep a Vt alive and push on a PR instead? Then again, if that IS the case; how the hell did he get a result on a jailed player??

[Almost50]

Actually;

VOTE: Comm

Flipping him is probably the only way to understand his weird result/claim. If he flips Town Role Cop though, both James and Ramcius will be in deep shit.

[Almost50]

Comm is guilty. There is now no reason to delay lynching him.

VOTE: CommKnight

Note that Comm's offer deliberately precludes him proving that hes actually a rolecop (not that that would prove his alignment). If he just town-confirms someone, that won't show that he knows their role. If he simply states that a role is in the game, there will be no way to disprove it.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Refer to the very first post of the day by Comm where he offers to tell us a name w/o a role, or a role w/o a name.

[Almost50]

huh? Is it me stupid and don't know how JK works, or Fitz asking dumb question?

You're talking about the "basic" version, and he's assuming the variant! Hmmmm...

Sine YOU are the JK, you should ask the mod via PM to clarify on whether your role is the "Base Role" or the one under 'Variations" on the wiki page.

[Almost50]

Actually;

VOTE: Comm

Flipping him is probably the only way to understand his weird result/claim. If he flips Town Role Cop though, both James and Ramcius will be in deep shit.

I like this, i really do, why i'm in deep shit? My role have no interaction with Comm results, and it's Fitz, who counter Comm words, i went to read wiki, and i couldn't find anything about JK preventing other people from checking target, just about normal roleblock - target can't use any active abilities

Read the wiki again. Under "Variations" it says another variant of the JK role makes it's target untargetable to ALL acions, and is sometimes referred to as Alien.

However, I have never seen the term Alien being used for a JK, but I have seen the version where the JK prevented it's target from being Copped as well as from being killed. In fact, I always assumed it to be the genera case not the variant!

[Almost50]

Hold on I'm reading posts in order and responding to he ones I read. Anything posted AFTER the post I'm quoting I have NOT read yet.

(This is bc I see many post with my name on them in the preview, and if I do try to read them before I post I may as well never post for the next 2 hours!)

[Almost50]

If James is town, Comm is confscum.
If Ram is town, Comm is confscum.
If Comm is town, James & Ram are confscum.

If this is wrong will someone point it out plz

Since we're going wild with possibilities, and with this game explicitly NOT "normal"; I'd say;

If James is Town, Comm is either Scum or James got redirected or we have a Framer in play.

If Ram is Town, it has nothing to do with Comm's alignment (this I apparently decided just now after I had a look at the wiki page myself)

If Comm is Town, James still might have been redirected or Comm was framed, and it still has nothing to do with Ram's alignment.

The simple fact no is apparently the basic JK role does NOT prevent the target from being copped. However, the problem is Comm got a result "that cannot be 3P or Mafia", which is certainly not "Havingfitzis Vanilla", because "Vanilla" is someone w/o any special powers, so VT, Mafia Goon, Basic Werewolf and even Survivour all return "Vanilla" to a Role Cop.

[Almost50]

I really don't think Comm is scum, I could see James fakeclaiming a guilty as scum but Comm doesn't come off as the type of person that will risk fucking around in a game if he's scum

Personally, I have not played with either before, so I'm judging by what I see in this thread and have no meta reference to fall on.

[Almost50]

Also, scum could have targeted ssbm night 1

Why would Scum target ssbm on N1 AND let him get lynched on D2?? That's a wasted shot. Besides, why ssbm in the first place? Again, why him over TWO Cop claims (one of which must be Town)?

Also, where is the SK kill for N2 then?

Maybe they didn't want him lynched?

Maybe it was docced, blocked, or otherwise interfered with.

1- If they didn't want him lynched they could've easily stopped the lynch. There were 16 players alive and 9 for the lynch. 2 slot were not available and ssbm himself wasn't voting himself, so are you saying ALL ACTIVE TOWN PLAYERS collaborated to mislynch him?

2- It could not have been, because that means the Watcher was no the Mafia kill, which in turn means we have a Serial Killer or a Vigilante. Now WHERE are their kills on N2? And besides, that would be the most unlucky Mafia team in the history of the game, failing to kill on the opening 2 nights, and the luckiest own team ever to avoid 2 Mafia kills and 1 SK kill in 2 successive nights.

[Almost50]

Plus like why would Scum Comm claim to rolecop Fitz of all people like I just don't see it

to save Fitz, cause i straight up said i rbed him, no kill, so Fitz getting rope

@Vifam:

The day opened with no NK, and the very first post was by Comm who provided a vague offer that allowed him to adjust according to what happens next. If Fitz was blocked Comm would come out to save him. If the NK target was BP or protected then it was easy for Comm to claim just about anything about anyone else (and especially one of his team, but it could be a real Town player to get Town credit for it).

Let me explain: Comm could've said "Ramciu is Town" and Ram would have bought it, thinking Comm really did Role Cop him. Or.. he could've said "There's a Doctor in play" and still everyone (but Ram) would have been impressed, but the fact is Comm knew Ram was Town already and was guessing there to be a Doctor. Now Ram could have CC'd that with his JK claim, and that would be all the Scum needed, or he could have kept quiet about it and Comm would have been Town read by most. Now what if here was a Doctor (instead of the JK) in play? Comm would have still got Town cred for it.

It was a semi-safe bet for all I know. Of course, this is all theory and you can choose to dismiss it as garbage, but it's as good a guess as any.

[Almost50]

@James
why didn't you wait until Comm outed his result before you claimed a guilty on him?
that makes no sense to me if you are town.

This I can see both ways. It could be argued the way you're doing, or it could be argued that if he had a guilty at the start o the day why sit on it for -say- 24 hours before announcing it.

[Almost50]

James could be solo scum out of these claims.

Claims

James claimed 1-shot cop with guilty on Comm
Comm claimed rolecop with check on Fitz
Ram claimed Jailkeeper with Fitz targeted
Fitz claimed VT


wanna hear more from Comm

Are you kidding me? Solo Scum = Serial Killer. Now why would a Serial Killer fake a guilty on anyone? If their target flips green they're toast and they lose instantly. Mafia can fake a guilty to get rid of a strong PR, but a Serial Killer? I very much doubt it.

Also, a Serial Killer fake claiming on their first post?? What if there was a NORMAL COP in play? Again, SK would not have lived past D2 if hey weren't lynched on D1.

[Almost50]

Hmm, this is interesting. We seem to have a bus in play. Also to note, I'd need to be roleblocked the night I choose a target. Which means he would've had to be jailed N1 to stop me from getting a result. So Ramcius, did you jail him N1 or N2 (like have it take effect those nights).

Now the next part, there is definitely something screwy going on and the mod said it wasn't a bastard game, so my best guess? Bus Driver is active (and possibly mafia sided if he doesn't admit to bussing Fitz).

I targeted Fitz because he was one of my scum reads D1 and seemed like he wouldn't die, which I was correct.

Now for the grand reveal. The role came back as Vigilante. So unless you're trolling them Fitz, you got bussed with someone or are a disguiser.

But because of this possibility, I know I can't have been bussed. Which means no alteration to Jame's ability. WHICH MEANS, James if scum confirmed.

Wait! What?

Ok, if there is a TOWN redirector (or bus driver) you should consider claiming NOW. Do not tell us who you redirected from (if you decide for claiming at all), but just clear Comm.

If nobody claims then it could have been a Scum redirector, and thus Scum no know who the Vig is (assuming Comm is telling he truth).

P.S. What's a disguiser? I know I could dig it up on the wiki, but this PC is damn too slow atm I could hand you all paper print outs for my posts and they'd be delivered faster than this.

[Almost50]

If the potential exists for your claimed action to be altered then likewise the same thing exist for James' action.

You mean TWO redirectors/bus drivers?? Is this a Great/er/est Idea Mafia setup variant?? I'd go for one redirector and one framer, but that requires the redirector to be TOWN (bc Framer is definitely Scum anyway). Otherwise, the redirector affecting Comm's action makes James Scum.

[Almost50]

This could also be combined with having made a blind guess as to Fitz being town.

How can it be a BLIND GUESS when you claim to have a GUILTY on him (which means he knows who his own team is)??

I'm not quite sure I understand the situation anymore.

UNVOTE:

[Almost50]

James could be solo scum out of these claims.

Claims

James claimed 1-shot cop with guilty on Comm
Comm claimed rolecop with check on Fitz
Ram claimed Jailkeeper with Fitz targeted
Fitz claimed VT


wanna hear more from Comm

Are you kidding me? Solo Scum = Serial Killer. Now why would a Serial Killer fake a guilty on anyone? If their target flips green they're toast and they lose instantly. Mafia can fake a guilty to get rid of a strong PR, but a Serial Killer? I very much doubt it.

Also, a Serial Killer fake claiming on their first post?? What if there was a NORMAL COP in play? Again, SK would not have lived past D2 if hey weren't lynched on D1.

You have to be scum this game.

Why? Because I'm saying he cannot be SK?? I mean, I didn't totally dismiss he possibility of him being GROUP SCUM, but a Serial Killer he can't be. Not by play, not by claim, and certainly not by the number of night kills so far. I seriously doubt here is a SK to begin with. We only had ONE KILL in TWO NIGHTS, and now it appears we have a Vig too. Are you telling me we had THREE SHOTS (at the very least, and that's assuming everyone either has delayed shots or can't shoot on consecutive nights) and ONLY ONE hit it's target? It's not like Shaq is taking free shots here, mate!

[Almost50]

Are you kidding me? Solo Scum = Serial Killer.

No. I mean he could be the only scum out of all those claims.

Ah! Now it sounds MUCH better. I happen to agree.

Btw, who hasn't posted today yet?

Comm posted.
TTTT posted.
Ram posted.
fitz posted.
Vifam posted.
Nero posted (but not after the whole fiasco, so I'll consider him yet to post)
PV posted.
Elena posted (I think I saw her name on a later post to the one I'm responding to)
James posted.

That leaves us with Yume, Slysly, Nero, Fuzzy, Tywin & X. If one of them claims a redirector that would be nice of them. Can we wait until they all post?

[Almost50]

Would it be worth outing a vig to save Comm?

What makes you think they're not outed to the MAFIA yet? If nobody claims redirector then the VIG (if existent) should come forward because they will confirm 2 Town players. There is no use hiding if Mafia already know who the Vig is.

[Almost50]

Is there any scenario where Comm and James are both town PRs?

If the Mafia have both a redirector AND a Framer it may explain this, but I fail to understand why they would redirect the Role Cop's action to a TOWN player, unless they thought he was going to check one of them, AND THAT ONE IS JAMES!!!!

So, it is more likely to me that James fake claimed on D1 to out the cop, then they also got the watcher for free so they shot him first, then they somehow failed to shoot the Role Cop so they faked a guilty on him (because it's worth it).

In other words, I will only consider a Framer if someone claims a Town redirector. If not, then I think James is our lynch.

[Almost50]

Also I don't want Vig to out himself so he's not interfered with. But if a TOWN redirector/busdriver happened. They SHOULD out.

Mate, the vig is already outed to the redirector. If the redirector is Town, that's ok. If they're Scum though, tonight he meets his fate. Either way, the redirector knows whom he redirected you to, and you gave them their result on a silver platter! It's who you intended to check that they didn't know beforehand, and THAT is why you got redirected.

[Almost50]

If Comm is telling the truth, then mafia already know who the vig is. Yet Comm doesn't want the vig to reveal. There's no reason for this from Town!Comm, ergo he's scum.

And what would be Scum!Comm's reason to NOT want the vig to step forward? I mean, Scum are killing the vig tonight for sure, or will redirect his shot to Comm if he's not lynched.

@VIG: DO NOT SHOOT ANYONE TONIGHT! In fact, do not shoot at all until the redirector is caught!

[Almost50]

@Tywin:

First of all, you're making the same faulty assumption I made about the JK preventing their target from being investigated. It turns out that the current "standard" role is to only protect the target from kills + prevent them from taking any action (i.e. RB them).

However, EVEN IF the variant (Alien) was used it does NOT prevent the redirector from redirecting Comm's action to X (X being the Vig), as it has NOTHING to do with fitz himself.

Having established the "possibility" of there being a redirector AND a Vig would result in this very situation and give those exact results, let's now examine the situation:

1- If you were Scum and wanted to out a potential Cop early, what would you do?
2- Again, if you were Scum and felt like fake claiming, would you claim Cop or Role Cop? In other words, which would be easier to fake?

3- If you were crazy enough to fake claim a ROLE COP on DAY ONE no less, why would you ALSO fake a result at the nearest possible chance? I'd reckon claiming having been RB'd or forgetting to submit action, or even claiming your target got NK'd would have looked much more convenient and far less suspicious. No?

4- IF there ARE a redirector and a Vig, it's almost a given Scum already know who the Vig is and they will be shot dead tonight.

I think we have 2 possibilities here:

1- James faked his claim to out at least one investigative and he got TWO. The Watcher with non-delayed action was a priority to take out and Scum can't shoot every night or they need to use delayed and direct shots in an alternating way or whatever that has prevented them from shooting Comm dead on N2. They thus decided to sacrifice one of their own for the strongest TPR we have, Not a bad bargain if you look at it objectively.

2- The other possibility is Scum have BOTH a redirector and a Framer, and they used the former to redirect Comm's action to a random Townie just in case he checked one of them, and used the latter to frame Comm himself knowing James had checked him in precise. Why redirect Comm? Because if he claimed a guilty and got lynched that guilty will follow.

Now if Comm is not lynched Scum will have a slight problem deciding whether to shoot him or the Vig tonight, but I suspect it would be the Vig with Comm redirected again. Alternatively they can shoot the vig AND redirect his shot to Comm, which is why I called on him to hold hold his fire until we lynched the redirector.

Again I urge you to try and put yourself in both James' and Comm's shoes and imagine what you would/would not have done if you were Scum in either slot. James' play doesn't come from Scum unless they had an elaborate plan like the one I'm proposing as the first possibility, but Comm's play and string of actions/claims does NOT come from Scum at any level. Period!

OK.. I got one scenario where ALL three of then can be Scum together, You want to hear a Mathblade-class theory??

[Almost50]

And I had requested to wait on Yume/Slysly/Fuzzy/X to come in and post too, because one of then COULD be the redirector in which case Comm should be on the clear. If nobody claims redirector THEN we can conclude there might not be one, but that would leave us with the big question: WHY did Comm pick fitz to fake a result on him? If Comm is Scum AND there is no redirector then fitz is Scum by necessity. But then, why would Scum!fitz confront his Scum buddy's result on him? It also brings us back to WHY James is still alive when it was all but a given he would use his check on "Scum!Comm"???

[Almost50]

OK, I've decided to entertain everybody with my world class moonlogic (I AM a crazy nurd, but I promise you I'm not THAT crazy. Well, at least not always)

So, Scum have deduced there is a Vig in play since there are not additional NKs for 2 nights. The SK would have killed someone on either nights, so they suspected there to be a Vig (more likely) or no other kills but theirs. (Now why the Vig didn't kill still is up to you to figure out. They may have been inactive or they may have forgotten to submit action, or they maybe of limited shots or they may have a restriction to their shot.. whatever).

Anyway, Scum decided to pursue this matter and get to the bottom of it. If there's a Vig they should have claimed by now, right? So this is all a big theater by three great actors who are all Scum. They decided to sacrifice one of their own in order to out the Vig if existent!!

Can I claim a Silver medal next to Math now, please? I mean, I sure did beat Titus on this one (at least give me that).

P.S. Ahem, even pursuing my moonlogic fantasy; I fail to see why Comm calls for the Vig NOT to claim either!!!! I can't even put a case to mockingly frame the guy! I SUCK!!!!

[Almost50]

a50, if there's a scum redirector do you think they'd claim?

Of course not!! But let's hold on to the hope it was a TOWN redirector, because if it was Scum then the Vig is toast already!!

[Almost50]

Ok, F-this! I AM IT! I AM THE FRIGGIN' VIG!! Alright??
I'm 2-shots, both delayed and can't shoot on consecutive nights. I fired once last night so I can only fire again on N4. My predecessor apparently wasn't even playing so he left me the 2 shots intact.

Everybody happy now?? Now let's move on. COMM IS TELLING THE TRUTH, Goddammit!

[Almost50]

Btw, my Role PM calls them "Normal" and I had to check with the mod as to what it meant bc I thought "timeshifted" was the term for the delayed shot. If that helps verify my claim to you at all!

[Almost50]

@Tywin (and anyone else interested):

Do a quick ISO of me vs Comm today. In fact, do include Ram if you like. I had atarted with a push on Vifam, then accused Ram, then voted fitz, then switched to Comm (or maybe I voted Comm first?? I'm falling asleep already!), but when he mentioned Vigilante I started backtracking, as if I had unvoted promptly it would have been considered all but a hard claim already. From then on I backed Comm up gradually but consistently. It's because I knew he was telling the truth, but I also didn't want to out myself and had held on to the hope it was a Town redirector who wanted to figure out what the "lurking slot role" was. I also thought it improbable Scum were given both a redirector and a framer, and w/o a Framer James (formerly a STRONG TR of mine) is Scum

[Almost50]

Math still has you beat by like a mile. And Titus has Math beat like 10 miles.

OK, wish me luck next time!

[Almost50]

1. Comm could be a scum rolecop

2. Comm could have taken a guess that there was a vig out there

3. You could be his buddy.

Whatever the case, he's still scum.

I should've shot you just to rid us all of your annoyance, but I assumed Scum would do it for us! *Sigh*

So, how come nobody asked whom I shot?? It's not like I'm going to tell, but still.. how come nobody cares?

[Almost50]

Oh! I'm not voting.

VOTE: James

Y'know.. Comm's scum p and all!

[Almost50]

@James:

I will unvote you when you stop tunneling and -even more importantly- drop the arrogance. PLAY THE GAME!

I'm still holding on to the hope you are somehow Town and there IS a Framer in-play. I can't be THAT terrible as Town (well, I am, but I refuse to acknowledge it!!)

[Almost50]

Now why the hell did I FULL claim??

Scum already knew whom I was and I wasn't going to live to see the light TOMMOROW. Now they're going to let me live for one more night and day to no avail!! STUPID ME!!! *Banging Head*

[Almost50]

Alright, I actually lied about my shots. Erm.. ONE is delayed... the other is Normal. That's why I had to ask the mods about the difference. I used the delayed shot and have the other one to use tonight.

P-edit:

Yes, Scum Role Cops are a thing, but so are Scum Goons faking a PR to get a TPR lynched.

Seriously though, Framers are also a "thing", and so are redirectors. Those things are called ROLES, along with many others that are often seen in Mafia games. Ever tried to play Mafia before?? It's a WONDERFUL game, but it requires a thing or two you seem to be lacking. I'll let you figure what those are.

[Almost50]

Exactly! Told you you're lacking a thing or two.

[Almost50]

So, anyone tell me why we let Fitz from hook? Until bus driver comes and tells who he switched with Fitz, i will consider i rbed him and stopped NK, redirector in play does not affect that

Geez, man!!

Redirector action: Redirect COMM to ALMOST.

Now WHERE does it say

fitz

in that simple line?? What does it matter if fitz was jailed, RB'd, commuted, Ascetic, or anything else? The redirector directly targeted Comm and redirected his action to me.

And evidently that redirector is SCUM so won't come out and claim their action. If they do, YOU need to JK them so as not to mess with Comm's results anymore.

[Almost50]

Is it possible you are shooting Fitz tonight with delayed action?

Maybe. Maybe not. You see, THERE IS A REDIRECTOR, so my shot will be redirected anyway, and it's either Comm or myself dying for it with the other dying from a direct Mafia shot. If you jail me the shot won't go but you may save us both (if they redirect my shot to Comm and decide to shoot me directly, that is). An exposed Vig with a redirector in play is HELL, so I'm not shooting anymore.

[Almost50]

missing NK don't ring you a bell?

It does, but I've explained it. Let me try again: I had a delayed shot. I have to assume Mafia also had at least one. Maybe they thought there was a SK delayed kill from N1 and decided to use their delayed kill on N2 so there would only be one flip on each of the opening 2 nights so as to confuse the Town. That's one possibility that comes to my mind as a common Mafia tactic in games with multiple killers.

I will only be concerned if there are no NKs on N3 as well for instance.

Btw, you also claimed prematurely and eventually forced my hand. You could've waited to see how the situation resolved w/o outing yourself. Scum now know who you are, who I am, in addition to their knowledge of both Comm and James (except the latter has dropped too fast from being a Town read to begin with). If I had kept quiet it would have resulted in Comm eating rope, and I would STILL have been killed anyway, so IIRC the only new piece of info they got out of this is your role. My claim didn't really matter bc they already knew.

[Almost50]

@Comm/Nero:

What don't you two understand? I had picked for Comm to confirm someone w/o outing their role, and had that happened none of this confusion would have happened. Comm outing there to be a Vig in play all but told the Mafia what my role is. From then on, nothing really went right although nothing could have been helped either. A simple "fitz is Town" would have told the Mafia that I was Town which they already knew anyway. If Ram came out with his JK claim (bc he misunderstood, just like I did and also Tywin) we would have simply all been corrected, and then we would have had a standoff between the two claimed cope on a separate level, but maybe I'm too stuck at having been exposed prematurely so I could be biased here.

Anyway, what's done is done and we don't need to make it any worse. We lynch James and see how he flips. He claims he has no more Copping shots anyway, and -of the lot on the chop- he's the one looking the worst to me.

[Almost50]

only reason stopping me from James lynch - who is his teammates?

Why is that stopping you lol

nice to see you in so good mood, considering we still going dark, and James lynch will bring us back to D1-D2, when we had no good idea who scum is

VOTE: Wifam

VOTE: Ramcius

Ram is the redirector. Redirector knew fitz wasn't checked anyway, but faked JK and either made a mistake or deliberately pulled that ignorance card.

Inb4 anyone gets emotional, THINK IT OVER. Ram = redirector >> redirected Comm's action to me >> no matter who Comm checked he was ready to oppose him with a fake JK claim forcing Comm to expose the role of the one he got redirected to.

James is another Scumster with Ram (I had not seen this coming). That's two scums caught.

LYNCH RAM, and if he is NOT the REDIRECTOR, then LYNCH ME!

[Almost50]

I might be nuts but
I'm now considering the possibility that James and Ram are both scum
bad scum

No you're not. Help me lynch Ram today please. His flips exposes the plot and denies the Mafia from their biggest asset thus far.

[Almost50]

When James claimed early, who was THE ONE who came to defend his claim so relentlessly?? Ram

HOWEVER, Ram kept the door open and said it was a FAKE CLAIM. Right?

He still maintained it could be a FAKE CLAIM until the start of D3, and he acknowledged James fake claims as either alignment (so it's NAI at best) but he still won't lynch him based on "meta"?????

The way I see it is he helped James out on D1 while keeping the door wide open to deny any responsibility when/if James flipped by simply saying "I told you he fake claims as either alignment".

[Almost50]

let me ask, how i know who Comm checked to claim that person jk? Comm claimed AFTER me, your theory have really huge flaw there, but i would like to be lynched, atleast this game would end for me and i could laugh from you all in dead chat

*Sigh*

I did and quick ISO of the both of you and you're right. Oh, well.. I don't know anymore.

On another note, why would you laugh? It's not like you're doing any better than the rest of us while you're alive. We all played and and Scum took control from the start. If James flips Town I'll hate him forever. If he is Scum though, I'd tip my hat for him. HE handed this game over to Scum.

I don't even know whom to FULLY trust anymore.

P-edit:

VOTE: James[/James]

I agree, but Ram's behaviour over this lynch on particular is overly suspicious.

[Almost50]

Except you are also non-consecutive, and if you used one last night, you can't use the other tonight.

Right?

Does it matter? I already shot a DELAYED shot last night, so it resolves tonight regardless. If the redirector is timeshifted (and I think he is) he will redirect my shot unto me or Comm and his teammates will shoot the other.

[Almost50]

Except you are also non-consecutive, and if you used one last night, you can't use the other tonight.

Right?

Does it matter? I already shot a DELAYED shot last night, so it resolves tonight regardless. If the redirector is timeshifted (and I think he is) he will redirect my shot unto me or Comm and his teammates will shoot the other.

Because you keep changing your story. Unless the RE-DIRECTOR redirected you last night, they could not have affected your DELAYED shot, which would be a NORMAL shot, because all actions are timeshifted.

So, really, you sound like you are faking it.

And 3316.

What makes you think ALL actions are timeshifted? Do we not have NORMAL actions AT ALL? How conident are you about his proposition?

And..

Would it be worth outing a vig to save Comm?

What makes you think they're not outed to the MAFIA yet? If nobody claims redirector then the VIG (if existent) should come forward because they will confirm 2 Town players. There is no use hiding if Mafia already know who the Vig is.

So we are clear, mafia said in their PT, "Let us redirect CommKnight the town Rolecop so that he investigates Zekromster instead of whoever he really wants to check. And while we are at it, let us kill HavingFitz."

Because then that would mean there is no kill and CommKnight, who checked whoever (in this case Fitz), would come back with an incorrect result of him being whatever role Zekromaster had.

Is this correct, according to you?

That's pretty much it, yes. Mafia do not want to waste their shot on an inactive, yet cannot totally ignore them in case hey were a dangerous PR, so YES they wanted to now what role Zerko had while targeting someone else with their kill.

Now with Roe Cop action redirected not only will they have utilized a TPR to heir benefit, but ALSO they have GUARANTEED he can't check any of them.

Now I suspect most players would agree we had expected Comm to "waste a check" on James, although Comm explicitly said the won't. If James is Scum he is protected with a false innocent, and if he is Town is Cop claim is nullified, meaning his one and only innocent/guilty means shit!

Now what exactly don't you like about this proposition?

Oh, and while a it. If fits was the NK target then i must have been someone who know and fears him. But that's only ONE possibility. Another is they had a direct shot and used it on N1, and then they used a delayed shot on N2, so we will have 2 bodies tomorrow, maybe even 3 if the have another direct shot tonight.

[Almost50]

Spoiler: Almost50 enters and said he did not read the game.

Given past games with him as town

, I do not beleive he shoots blindly

In post 3327, PeregrineV wrote:In post 3256, Almost50 wrote:In post 3251, James3 wrote:1. Comm could be a scum rolecop2. Comm could have taken a guess that there was a vig out there3. You could be his buddy.Whatever the case, he's still scum.I should've shot you just to rid us all of your annoyance, but I assumed Scum would do it for us! *Sigh*So, how come nobody asked whom I shot?? It's not like I'm going to tell, but still.. how come nobody cares?Because based on your opening post where you didn't even read the game, that means either you are lying, or you shot randomly. Since shooting randomly doesn't seem your style, I really don't think you are the vig. In post 2977, Almost50 wrote:@Comm:No, and Yes (let's confirm someone, but let's NOT expose their role).I'll be honest: I haven't exactly “read” anything yet. I just took a quick glance on the jest of it. I do not plan on doing a “proper” full read either; meaning I won't be reading the whole thing post by post and word by word (You guys have broken the record for shit posting %age). I may read some sections thoroughly, but only if I'm prompted to (or feel the need to). This also has to do with the number of replacements that occurred that it's going to cause me a real headache if I tried to track each slot to it's original occupier and their successor(s)). I intend to keep up starting D3 though.Any questions/remarks?Now why is Vifam still alive?? Tywin needs to step up as a Town leader and get this lynch over with. James needs to step DOWN his high heels and get in the mix. Nero needs to open his eyes and actually "do a Nero" (I know you CAN). Too bad RC replaced out. I could have worked with him, but Yume is fine too.There is still a 50% player base that I have never played with before (at least not with these usernames) so it might take us a while to get acquainted, but let's first show respect to each other and try to work with each other.

And "given past games with me as town" you don't know I start with a lie to deter Scum from putting too much attention on me? (Refer to Mastina's Gistou for a peemptive fake PGO claim to keep even my peers -i.e. other champions- from accidentally- visiting me resulting in my early death).

And "given past games with me as town" you don't know I do weird stuff sometimes (like trying to draw attention as a VT to cover up for a PR, or ASKING TO BE VIG SHOT when I was a Hider)???

If you had really bee paying attention to my Town games with you you'd have noticed I LIE a HELL LOT MORE about my actions and my intentions as TOWN than I ever do as Scum to begin with. I fake claim (but only to protect myself or trick Scum, and never to save a own Read than I don't have "mod provided info" about their alignment).

@Vifam/Tywin/Nero (although Nero has more games with me he doesn't really need this remark):

Spoiler:

How many outright lies did I tell in our WWE game? Did I not claim my TRUE abilities? Did I not provide semi-accurate read lists (they were MUCH more accurate than my read lists as Town)? Did I not all but confirm massive as Town GM? Did I not persistently maintain Scum from both brands did NOT have knowledge of each other from the start?

Which reminds me;

@Nero: I saw you said I was TRing the whole Scum team from SD in post game chat. Check again, mate. I only claimed to TR 2 of the 4, and one was from my own team.

So, in sum.. I DID read, but I just lied about it so a not to be forced to out my reads and thus have "outside effect" to my decision(), either by someone SRing, or someone defending one of my SRs, or Scum pushing me hard enough that I'd have to claim prematurely.

Thank you for attending class 101 of BASIC ALMOST50 PLAY

VOTE: James

Btw, no objections, but most mods would have corrected the format and counted that vote. It was obvious I was voting and it was obvious whom I was voting, but I respect the decision nevertheless.

[Almost50]

Spoiler: Almost50 enters and said he did not read the game. Given past games with him as town, I do not beleive he shoots blindly

1. Comm could be a scum rolecop

2. Comm could have taken a guess that there was a vig out there

3. You could be his buddy.

Whatever the case, he's still scum.

I should've shot you just to rid us all of your annoyance, but I assumed Scum would do it for us! *Sigh*

So, how come nobody asked whom I shot?? It's not like I'm going to tell, but still.. how come nobody cares?

Because based on your opening post where you didn't even read the game, that means either you are lying, or you shot randomly. Since shooting randomly doesn't seem your style, I really don't think you are the vig.

@Comm:

No, and Yes (let's confirm someone, but let's NOT expose their role).

I'll be honest: I haven't exactly “read” anything yet. I just took a quick glance on the jest of it. I do not plan on doing a “proper” full read either; meaning I won't be reading the whole thing post by post and word by word (You guys have broken the record for shit posting %age). I may read some sections thoroughly, but only if I'm prompted to (or feel the need to). This also has to do with the number of replacements that occurred that it's going to cause me a real headache if I tried to track each slot to it's original occupier and their successor(s)). I intend to keep up starting D3 though.

Any questions/remarks?

Now why is Vifam still alive?? Tywin needs to step up as a Town leader and get this lynch over with. James needs to step DOWN his high heels and get in the mix. Nero needs to open his eyes and actually "do a Nero" (I know you CAN). Too bad RC replaced out. I could have worked with him, but Yume is fine too.

There is still a 50% player base that I have never played with before (at least not with these usernames) so it might take us a while to get acquainted, but let's first show respect to each other and try to work with each other.

Spoiler: Talks about how RadiantCowbells could be the NK becasue he could be the Vig

In my mind it had to do with him being the preferred NK target for a number of payers, so he was partially saving the SLOT from being NK'd.

there are only two killing roles as far as I know. If we assume RC is town why would either mafia or the SK EVER shoot at that big piece of mislynch bait?

1- Because it was RC, and you and I both know how hard it is to get him lynched.
2- Because they don't know what ROLE he had. For all we know he could be the

Vigilante (he did recommend a Vig shot on you, but he left before it was time for him to submit the action).

If I' ever Scum (of any alignment) in a game with RC, I do NOT want him alive by D2. EVER. I would probably shoot him over anyone else in the game.

Spoiler: Another metion of Vig, who may have shot SSBM

Also, scum could have targeted ssbm night 1

Why would Scum target ssbm on N1 AND let him get lynched on D2?? That's a wasted shot. Besides, why ssbm in the first place? Again, why him over TWO Cop claims (one of which must be Town)?

Also, where is the SK kill for N2 then?

Maybe they didn't want him lynched?

Maybe it was docced, blocked, or otherwise interfered with.

1- If they didn't want him lynched they could've easily stopped the lynch. There were 16 players alive and 9 for the lynch. 2 slot were not available and ssbm himself wasn't voting himself, so are you saying ALL ACTIVE TOWN PLAYERS collaborated to mislynch him?

2-

It could not have been, because that means the Watcher was no the Mafia kill, which in turn means we have a Serial Killer or a Vigilante

. Now WHERE are their kills on N2? And besides, that would be the most unlucky Mafia team in the history of the game, failing to kill on the opening 2 nights, and the luckiest own team ever to avoid 2 Mafia kills and 1 SK kill in 2 successive nights.

Spoiler: Claimed non-consecutive, but is now going to use a shot tonight after shooting last night

Alright, I actually lied about my shots. Erm.. ONE is delayed... the other is Normal. That's why I had to ask the mods about the difference. I used the delayed shot and have the other one to use tonight.

P-edit:

Yes, Scum Role Cops are a thing, but so are Scum Goons faking a PR to get a TPR lynched.

Seriously though, Framers are also a "thing", and so are redirectors. Those things are called ROLES, along with many others that are often seen in Mafia games. Ever tried to play Mafia before?? It's a WONDERFUL game, but it requires a thing or two you seem to be lacking. I'll let you figure what those are.

Except you are also non-consecutive, and if you used one last night, you can't use the other tonight.

Right?

Spoiler: The claim(s)

Ok, F-this! I AM IT! I AM THE FRIGGIN' VIG!! Alright??
I'm 2-shots, both delayed and can't shoot on consecutive nights. I fired once last night so I can only fire again on N4. My predecessor apparently wasn't even playing so he left me the 2 shots intact.

Everybody happy now?? Now let's move on. COMM IS TELLING THE TRUTH, Goddammit!

Btw, my Role PM calls them "Normal" and I had to check with the mod as to what it meant bc I thought "timeshifted" was the term for the delayed shot. If that helps verify my claim to you at all!

Except you are also non-consecutive, and if you used one last night, you can't use the other tonight.

Right?

Does it matter? I already shot a DELAYED shot last night, so it resolves tonight regardless. If the redirector is timeshifted (and I think he is) he will redirect my shot unto me or Comm and his teammates will shoot the other.

Spoiler: More of the same- All actions/results are timeshifted. This does not match previous claims of non-consecutive, and unless "The Vig" was redirected the night he shot, the shot should go through

Except you are also non-consecutive, and if you used one last night, you can't use the other tonight.

Right?

Does it matter? I already shot a DELAYED shot last night, so it resolves tonight regardless. If the redirector is timeshifted (and I think he is) he will redirect my shot unto me or Comm and his teammates will shoot the other.

Because you keep changing your story. Unless the RE-DIRECTOR redirected you last night, they could not have affected your DELAYED shot, which would be a NORMAL shot, because all actions are timeshifted.

So, really, you sound like you are faking it.

And 3316.

Sure, here you go.

So, what IS you point still? That I'm faking my Vig claim? I sure could be, but it should only confirm me as Town to you in particular if you're serious about using my meta as a guage.

Or that I'm telling you misleading details about my role which IS the Vig? Again, it's evident that I do this often, and you have played with me enough to know that.

Or are you proposing that I'm SCUM fake claiming a Vig? Cuz THAT would be inexplicable as hell. It first necessitates you to have a scum read on the one I'm trying to save. Do you SR Comm?

Then it requires you to assume I'm stupid enough to out myself to save my Scum p. Is this what you think of me, based on your extensive experience with me?

PV, I don't know if you're scum or town (I'm leaning Town, but even I would admit my town game needs tweaking), but you seriously need to take a closer look at the game as a whole and at me in particular. This is NOT my Scum game and you know it. As Scum I'm MUCH better than this.. as embarrassing as me saying this would be.

[Almost50]

Comm the scum rolecop claims to target Fitz, targets someone else, gives a fake result, and now knows three roles in a single night, their target, the vig who claimed, and Fitz who claimed.

I thought you didn't believe the vig claim to begin with!!!

[Almost50]

Well uhm either way the only way for Almost to be scum is for Comm to be scum too and that's unlikely so

Not even going to argue. I can see just about every scenario at this point.

I mean... Even I agree with Vifam here. Almost can't be scum due to the investigation of Comm, and the jailkeep from Ram explains no shot, at least for one night. Otherwise, the people whom the bus driver switched didn't include Almost, and so Almost is lying and the real vig is letting him. Regardless, I think the only real scenerio that he's scum is if Comm was also scum. There's too many seperate things involved that substantiate it. I'm positive Almost would lie about it if it benefited him, but I don't think Comm would too. I do think Almost is lying about modifiers and things, but that doesn't really matter anyways. It only affects scum.

Do you understand that if we lynch CommKnight, we can catch or confirm one or more scum?

The only scenerio I can come up with for Almost lying here is for him to bait the real vig to claim. Since James claimed scum almost immediately after, it stops any other possible lynch from happening, and so scum would have the vig outted while Almost stays alive for another day to do.. whatever. It's a bad trade off for scum IMO, because a counter outs two scum in a row for the benefit of outting 1 PR. I just don't see Almost making that choice as scum, because the potential benefit is outweighed by the cost. A 1 for 1 isn't very good unless it's an extremely important role, which a cop could be (so James' claim makes sense to out comm, and he got the watcher too), but a vigi isn't in the same category unless it's Lylo or close to it and scum can afford the trade.

Idk, I get what you're saying about not confirming him, but he's not the best lynch today. James claimed scum, so unless he's trolling, we gotta take the sure thing.

2 things:

1- If I'm scum I already know the vig. Comm got redirected to "someone" and that "someone" was specified by the Scum redirector.

2- If I'm lying TOWN then the Vig did the RIGHT THING not to counter. For one thing I'm baiting a NK off of him. For another, he could shoot me if he still suspects me w/o outing himself.

Like, really.. I am either Town Vig or Town faking Vig.

Why I can't be SK:

1- SK typically sides by Town until Scum are trimmed down. I can't afford SAVING a Scumster at this point.
2- SK has no interest in saving a Town Role Cop either. Surely I don't want him getting my role.

From 1 & 2, being the SK simply doesn't work AT ALL anyway you try to slice it.

Why I can't be Scum:

I'm defending a claimed Role Cop against a fake guilty on him. All it would have took me was to keep quiet and Comm would have been lynched based on there being no evidence of either a Vig or even a redirector. James would have been lynched TOMORROW instead of today (and he is supposed to be my p).

That leaves you with my alignment semi-confirmed, just short of being mod-confirmed, actually.

Now the following part is mainly for PV:

The question is whether I'm the vig, which I maintain I am. If Vig is flipped tonight it confirms the redirector is Scum w/o any shred of doubt, as they knew his identity w/o him claiming. If not, you have no reason to doubt I am the real Vig.

If I'm the Vig am I claiming the right modifiers or not? Am I really 2 shots or maybe one and it's used up already? You can't tell me you know my play when you clearly don't even know when I claim and/or why I do it. If memory serves me right you played with me when I was a Town Bus Driver about a year ago. You also played with me when I was VT scumming it up to cover up for RC's crumb on D1. On that same game several game days later I falsely crumbed RC was a Monk. You played with me when I was a Cowardly Hider (still Town). Recently you were there when I was the Annoying Dog. Those were all Town Roles in games with you (I'm sure there are others, but those are the games I recall that we were in as complicated situations as this one we're in). There's no way you could misread me based on "my meta" if you were really going with meta.

FTR; I wouldn't count on my own meta bc I simply have none (at least none that I'm aware of).

So, think again. Read between the lines. Figure it out for yourself, man.

[Almost50]

If CommKnight is town, James is confirmed scum, and Fitz is confirmed Vig (unless their is a redirector). That is one caught scum.

What sick logic is this? We lynch the Town Role Cop to confirm a claimed Scum and the Town Vig???? Is that even logob, or is it the most illogical thing you're ever suggested in your like, mate?

WE LYNCH THE CLAIMED SCUM. When he does flip Scum Comm gets confirmed. Period.

Now if -by any chance under God's skies- James flips Town he will get banned form the site for playing against his win con. Capisce?

[Almost50]

I so want to hammer James. If he really is a cop, the guilty should be hanging.

Here's what makes me think James is lying. James has been consistent that I'm scum the entire game. Why didn't he investigate me?

Thoughts?

Cuz he's Scum and you're not a claimed PR so he has no reason to throw himself under the bus for your lynch.

[Almost50]

Also Ramcius, you realize you dug the mafia a hole if you are mafia as well, because if I were to die tonight when I am supposedly protected by the Jail keeper... If you're fake claiming, mafia can't touch me tonight without outing you.

No worries then. I can use my timeshifted shot tonight then and then Scum shooting me does them no good as I'd be out of bullets. If they do redirect me then it won't be your way. WAIT! JK only gives you a 1 layer BP, right? OK. back to NOT shooting then!

[Almost50]

Almost: why do you keep saying 'scum Redirector' as if you already know the role and alignment? Why does it need to be scum that redirected town onto town? That makes literally no sense. In my view, it's probably a town Busdriver. Why they picked you or Fitz I have no idea, but scum directing a town cop onto another town makes no sense at all. Care to explain why you're so sure it's a scum Redirector and can't be a town Busdriver or something?

First let's not confuse the redirector with the Bus Driver.

Bus Driver switches two slots for each other. They target A & B causing all action on B to actually target A and vise versa.

Redirector though makes the action of A resolve on B.

A Town redirector thus gad no reason to redirect A (Comm in this case) anywhere, unless they thought he was Scum and ALSO scum read (or suspected) fitz. That way the TOWN mindset would be "if Comm is shooting someone he might as well shoot his own buddy".

Also, if it was a Town redirector and Comm came back with Vig as his result, the redirector should have claimed to prevent the Vig from claiming themselves.

Now a Scum redirector would KNOW Comm is telling the truth and IS a Town Role Cop. Gow best to utilize that info than to redirect his action (investigation) to a less active slot (thus Scum are suspicious of but won't waste a shot on) to try and figure out what Role they had, AS WELL AS make sure no matter who Comm targets isn't one of them.

So, they know Comm will investigate precisely the slot they redirected his action to = they're safe from his investigation, AND if he was to claim his result (which he did) they'd also know what role the inactive slot had.

Or scum might have suspected Comm for the SK or Vig himself, and they wanted him to shoot a Townie by redirecting his shot to said Town slot.

So, while a Scum BUS DRIVER doesn't make sense to Switch 2 Town slots for each other, a Scum REDIRECTOR does because they actually only redirect the action of a known slot to one they have no idea what it does.

[Almost50]

Let me try this for all (especially those who come from other sites):

Bus Driver:

Switch Almost with Tywin = All action ON Tywin will affect Almost instead. All action ON Almost affect Tywin instead. If either got shot the other will die in their stead. If either was investigated the result will actually be on the other.

Redirector:

Redirect Almost to Tywin = All action (if any) BY Almost shall target Tywin. If Anything ELSE (not from Almost) targets Tywin it still resolves on TYWIN. If aby other player targets Almost with an action it will resolve on Almost. ONLY ALMOST'S ACTION will be redirected to resolve on Tywin instead of the intended target.

[Almost50]

First things first:

@Chara:

Thank you very much for replacing in. I know it's a lot of work, but I'll try to help.

So, I'm the Town Vig and I shot TTTT with a normal shot on N2 (sorry about that, mate) and Nero with a timeshifted shot on N3 (you were becoming ridiculously obv Scum to me, especially when you tried to save James).

I had it in my notes that Nero & TTTT could not have been Scum together, so I kinda saw it coming on D3, but my shot on TTTT was already out of the barrel.

Anyway, RC doesn't get bussed. He usually is the BUSSER himself, so with the interactions between the trio of Nero/RC/James I think that slot (now Not Chara) is very very likely Town. (Besides I'm not going to lynch someone who was kind enough to sub-in on D4 on their first day. That's not cool).

I still maintain Tywin is my top TR and I'm comfortable calling Fuzzy Town too. I can't make up my mind regarding Vifam, but it's worth noting both flipped Scumsters didn't vote him "when it counted", so I'm still very suspicious of him.

My top lynch prefernces are Vifam/Sly Sly

@Chara (again):

I'm the Town Vig, Comm claims non-consecutive Role Cop, Ramcius claimed JK, Fuzzy is likely VT, and Sly hinted something I didn't catch.

Oh, and now Ramcius is a mystery to me bc I had him down as the same alignment of TTTT, yet I also had a note he was probably the opposite of Xanth. Still wouldn't lynch him today, and my shot going through on Nero gives him some town points (although I'm positive NOBODY saw that one coming from me).

Sly Sly's flip is also informative to me bc they're likely NOT Scum with XnadrojX (so if Sly flips red XnadrojX is clear in my eyes). Sly "may be" of the same alignment of Elena though.

[Almost50]

can you tell me why RC was a townread for you?

ISO RC vs Nero and you'll probably get it in full. I also can't see RC rage-quitting as Scum when he/his team actually had the upper hand at that point. It was very likely TOWN FRUSTRATION to me, and I said that to Nero before I shot him.

[Almost50]

Night 3 is over, and oh boy it was certainly a night.

TTTT, Vanilla Townie, was killed Night 3.
Nero Cain, Mafia Encryptor, was killed Night 3.
PeregrineV, Town Two-Shot Friendly Neighbor, was killed Night 3.

Day 4 begins now. See next post for the deadline and other news.

Did anybody get neighborized by PV?

[Almost50]

what's the story behind this consensus lynch on scum. any failed counterwagons, or was James just confirmed guilty from the start and scum gave up?

A quick ISO of James tells you all about his play and his character even. A preemptive 1-shot alignment Cop in his first post wasn't ideal, but he also made quite a few bad moves and he eventually explicitly Scum claimed yesterday (but that didn't stop Nero from trying to save him for one more night).

[Almost50]

Well yes I wanted to give a reason on why I voted Ram. I don't really have a thought on the nightaction mostly because I forgot that was a thing. My RC townread came from I've played with him in a few games and it's easy to tell when he's town I thought he was scum at first but a few reactions later it changed my outlook on him and nothing else really changed it from there.

this post sounds honest, i'm tempted to townread you for it. but i want to know why Ram is scum, not why you thought Ram was a good vote.

This is the mystery we're all trying to solve. Comm claimed a check on fitz that returned VIGILANTE. Obviously that was not true (redirection isn't too farfetched) because I am. Ram claimed to have jailed fitz and misundesrtood his JK (he though JK should've prevented a check on his target, as did I and Tywin) but it turns out that JK only prevented the kill and roleblocked the target as per the wiki (basic role).

So, nobody claimed redirector .. I deduced it was Scum .. I had to step out to save Comm .. James claimed a guilty on Comm .. fitz claimed VT .. and we're still in this mess and will be until we flip the redirector (who probably used their ability on Comm).

Tonight Comm gets shot (so as to not give a result) or I get shot and Scum learn about yet another slot they so want to know their role.

If Ram is Town (probably is bc I don't see why they'd claim if they knew who Comm was redirected to) he will have a tough time deciding between JK'ing me or Comm tonight to prevent the kill. It's a 50-50 chance for him.

[Almost50]

didn't you said something about you being non consec vig?

I lie A LOT as Town. Why would I want to tell Mafia that I can shoot them beforehand?

[Almost50]

N3 confirm sk

No, it does not, and that's precisely why I claimed both my kills (so as not to lead you astray in that direction).

[Almost50]

3 NKs pretty much confirms both a vigi and an SK,

I know I'm responding to posts made before I claimed my kills, so this is just me reasserting there is NO SERIAL KILLER in this setup (there's still a missing SCUM kill on N2 though). I shot TWICE thus far, and my initial Scum team quatro was laughable I presume (or maybe I did name one or two even??) *Shrug* I submitted my 4-person Scum team prediction to the mods along with my 1st shot for giggles, and I told them to feel free to either commend or ridicule me for it post-game).

[Almost50]

With 17 players and a bunch of town PRs, I'm pretty sure there's at least 4 scum. Maybe 5. My last game had 4 and a traitor with less players and not as many PRs. Idk if timeshift mechanic or SK change that idea though.

well, normally it's 3 maifa in 17 ppl game, if there is sk, but might be 4 here, mafia PRs feels weak (2-shot ninja and encryptor) considering watcher, rolecop, jk, 2-shot neigbourizer and vig on town side, dunno if redirector alone would be enough to outweight all this (if there is one and Comm isn't on mafia side )

No. Normally it's 7 vs 2 (9 players), 10 vs 3 (13 players) and 13 vs 4 (17 players).

[Almost50]

dunno if redirector alone would be enough to outweight all this (if there is one and Comm isn't on mafia side )

There HAS to be one to explain the result Comm got. If Comm was Scum there was absolutely no reason for him to even claim he got Vig result. He either knew I was Vig or he was speculating there to be one and wanted to out him, but even then he would not have done that given there were no NK flips from my shots yet.

The only thing keeping me from giving Comm a 100% pass is if he was a bad Mafia player, and given I have no previous experience with him I can't fully exclude that, but then it also doesn't make sense he would go 1v1 against James either, and certainly not on D1.

[Almost50]

With Encryptor now dead... Would that mean mafia can no longer day talk?

Yes. The encryptor was the one allowing them to talk by day, and with him gone they should be confined to night talk only.

And, yes.. I did shoot Nero. With James flipping Scum and Nero relentlessly trying to redirect that lynch, plus his bad push on RC I had confidence in him being Scum this game (he wasn't in my initial scum team prediction though).

[Almost50]

Did A50 legit say he wasn't really a vig? I missed that.

No, I didn't. I only played with the idea that I might be fake claiming in response to PV, but now I'm confirming I AM the Town Vig so as to not confuse anyone anymore. You can -of course- suspect me for the SK still, but if you pay close attention to my conversation with PV you'd probably see why this can't be the case.

Also, me being the SK doesn't explain how Comm got his VIG result, so you'd have to Scum read Comm as well which probably isn't healthy for Town cause by now.

I'm working under the (almost certain) assumption there IS a Scum redirector and there is NOT a SK in play. Scum simply feared Comm would investigate one of them, so they decided to make use of his role to their favour by making him check someone inactive who was not part of their team. No matter what Comm's result would have been they knew it had the potential to -at least- clear one of them, or expose a Town PR (depending on whether Comm intended target was Scum or Town). If he targeted Scum, Comm would declare them Town and that would be it. If Town.. we see what happened.

[Almost50]

Can anyone explain why I...as sk....which I'm not btw...would target any of the nk victims over a JK/RB who has been shading/annoying me the entire time I've been in the game?

Look, I'm NOT FoS'ing you, but your avatar is annoying to me. It always gives me the impression I'm talking to an inmate bully!!

[Almost50]

Scum now gets Nights and the first 48 hours of each Day, which I believe is common practice onsite.

Huh? First 48 hours isn't AT ALL common from what I have seen on MS, and I have been here for well over a year and played over 40 games so far.

[Almost50]

If Ram is Town (probably is bc I don't see why they'd claim if they knew who Comm was redirected to) he will have a tough time deciding between JK'ing me or Comm tonight to prevent the kill. It's a 50-50 chance for him.

i haven't used my ability last night, with redirector in play i was priority target to redirect - mafia could shut down 2 PRs that way and proceed their kill, i was going discuss this plan, but NC cut day early, so till redirector in play, i won't use my ability

Good thought. They probably redirected you to me (pure speculation) so that's why my shot on Nero still went through. More Town points to you, mate.

[Almost50]

So the missing kill N2 is one of three possibilities.
- Mafia kills are non-consecutive (But why? What else is against us?).
- Mafia kill was blocked/target doctored/protected or target even immune.
- Mafia decided to not shoot and cause speculation intentionally.

Me and my moonlogic!

How about: Mafia redirected your action to me AND shot at fitz? That way you do return a result (on me) and they claim you visited fitz so you killed him. They lynch you and -depending on your result- decide whether I was a worthy NK. They got screwed both ways by the JK on fitz. (Boy I LOVE thinking waaaaay out of the box).

[Almost50]

Not Chara
SlySly
Vifam
Elena Fisher
Tywin Lannister
XnadrojX

^ One of the above 6 are the redirector/bus driver. As they did not out yesterday when it was the very real possibility Almost50 or I could eat rope and they'd know the results were switched, it's safe to assume that they are indeed a mafia role.

I'll exclude Chara and Tywin from being Scum at all at this point. I suggest we lynch in the remaining 4. I prefer Sly. If he flips Scum we lynch Elena. If he flips Town then it's XnadrojX + Vifam.

In fact, put simply: it's Sly+Elena or XnadrojX+Vifam for me at this time.

[Almost50]

Solid town: Comm, A50, Not Chara
Likely town pending stuff: Ramicus
Suspect in most to least order: SlySly, Elena, Xnadro, Fuzzy, Tywin
Voting: Vifam

VOTE: Vifam

This looks like a VERY town-minded readlist, and it has my lynch pool 4 members as the 4 top suspects. I can overlook Ram being put above Tywin as it's a minor detail, but it's more or less similar to my own read list.

[Almost50]

Unlynchable: Not Chara, Tywin Lannister, CommKnight,
Almost Unlynchable: TheFuzzyLogic99,
Not Today Lynch Pool: Havingfitz, Ramcius,
Acceptable Lynch Pool: XnadrojX, Elena Fisher,
Primary Lynch Pool: Vifam, SlySly,

[Almost50]

What did FuzzyLogic claim?

VT

[Almost50]

Vifam I haven't had any reason to consider as scum until A50's remarks
this morning and a look over the voting. Nero and James both stayed
off the Vifam wagon D1 when their votes would have secured a mislynch
on town!Vifam. This pushes me into the scum!Vifam camp.

Why SlySly over Vifam A50?

I was mislead by my own remarks into thinking Sly would give us more info, but having thought it over and considered what went through my mind w/o being typed at the time it's all the same to me. Sly, Vifam, Elena or XnadrojX. Any flip of those gives us the 2 remaining scumsters.

[Almost50]

And can you explain your scum pairings?

Not w/o going back to do LOTS of reading to remember why I put those remarks. I mean, that IS the idea behind me putting down remarks, so as not to do that much rereading with each flip.

[Almost50]

why not Fuzzy? His posturing about no claiming today is exactly same what i told him after his claim early D1, then answer was - he didn't thought about it, it was really forced, keeping in mind we have no claims today

I'm not TOTALLY excluding him, but nearly so. As his name implies, he has such a FUZZY LOGIC you can't really explain his actions. However, he does feel like the Town!Fuzzy I've played with just recently in Steven Universe II.

I'll give Chara some time to read that slot separately though as they were the only other player in that game from this one's player list. If Chara can confirm this is Town!Fuzzy I'm willing to move him to unlynchable.

[Almost50]

If there IS a 3P it'd be likely a mere Survivor, in which case I'd encourage them to claim. Scum don't want to kill Survivor over Town at this point, and neither does Town want to lynch Survivor over Scum, so they're safe. This will help us further narrow down the lynch pool, and we will only consider lynching the Survivor claim if we can't win in the next 3 lynches.

For now, I am waiting to see whether Vifam or Sly get the bigger wagon to join it. Also, if either has anything to say they had better say it now.

Also, a point to ponder on: XnadrojX & Sly have yet to post today. I wonder if they're unaware of the day start (I personally didn't receive a notification) or if they're scum together (against my better judgement) and are sitting it out for as long as they could.

P-edit:

There are 2 types of shots in play: Timeshifted resolves on the same night, and normal resolves on the next one. My slot could have killed on N1 AND the kill would have flipped at the start of D2 if my predecessor decided to use a timeshifted shot on N1.

[Almost50]

right, but you're not claiming that shot, so it had to have been the mafia. if they timeshifted night 1, there's no missing kill by my understanding. no night 2 kill because mafia chose not to tineshift it, and instead submitted a normal kill which hit night 3.

Your guess is as good as any. But then why didn't they also use a timeshifted kill today? We can try to speculate about the mechanics all day, but will still fall short at the end until probably the end of the game.

We may expect 2 Mafia kills resolving tonight though and thus 2 corpses showing up at the start of D3 if what you say is true. Or we could expect there to be a mechanic giving scum 1 normal and 1 timeshifted kill every 3 days, so they used both shots up and couldn't shoot on N3. I really don't know what to expect, but I'll give you a hint already (in case I'm the one to die tonight): Read my role PM carefully when I do flip.

[Almost50]

pedit: simplicity says they can't timeshift every night.

Agreed. The question is: If PV was a delayed shot from N2, did they use a normal shot on N3 or not at all? It could be that they had only one timeshifted kill all game with all other kills being normal, or it could be that they have them in an alternating manner, or it could be that they've been given a "night off" after 2 shots, or .... ???

[Almost50]

So, just read my role PM carefully when I flip so as not to get confused. I think you will understand what I'm hinting once you do read it.

[Almost50]

They actually have a bit of a predicament choosing between you, me & Comm. I don't envy them at this time tbh.

[Almost50]

^@Ram^

[Almost50]

Let's look at the list...

CommKnight - scummy all game, but seems like somewhere along the way i leaned town on him
Ramcius (KainTepes) - scummy but claimed JK
Not Chara (pep, Radiant, Yume) - i thought Radiant was town
Havingfitz (Harp) - town
Vifam - could go either way
Elena Fisher (firebringer, skelda) - scummy
TheFuzzylogic99 - scummy af, but seems like something fairly recent made me lean town on him
Almost50 (zekromaster) - scummy
Tywin Lannister - scummy af all game
XnadrojX (Lil Uzi Vert) - Lil was scummy af

I changed my mind. I'm not lynching this. This is HILARIOUS.


VOTE: Vifam

@Vifam:

Spoiler:

Just in case you flip Town, my man I sure mistook you to be a sharper player than this. I saw your Town game as a spectator and I saw your Scum game as a town-aligned player before I once again saw your Town game but as a scum-aligned player, and your performance in the former two outweighs your play in the last one and in this one. I don't know what you're doing anymore. You used to have READS. Why'd you turn into a ghost of late?

I mean, part of why I really like playing with -say- Nero is he's noisy and never goes down w/o a fight as either alignment. Just because I caught him this once doesn't make it any less of an enjoyment to play with him and try to figure him out (or fool him if I'm scum and he's town).

Please come back and show me the Vifam I saw in the first 2 games, because that one was a town asset in the first and a hell of a manipulator in the other.

P.S. Perhaps this was better off left to post-game, but I have a short memory, and besides many of us don't talk much in post-game.

[Almost50]

FTR, I have yet to decide on a target to shoot. I need to see an actual flip before I do. It's a 40-40 between 2 targets with another 20% reserved for an entirely different line of thoughts. Stay tunes!!

[Almost50]

Actually, looking at the latest VC, everyone in my town list minus Not Chara is voting Vifam, and everyone not voting (again, aside from NC) are in my possible scum pool. That looks pretty telling actually. Scum wouldn't lynch Vifam D1, and now they don't wanna vote him again.

I'm still gonna wait for tonight like Vifam asked, but it's something that came to my attention just now.

Could it be that Vifam is the redirector then?? I mean, that's the one role worth sacrificing their Ninja for (Ninja only got to use one of his 2-shots as he got lynched on D3).

Actually this raises yet another question about Scum play. Why -the heck- shoot the Watcher on N1 when you have a 2-shots Ninja???

[Almost50]

I've tried, and I can't think of any way that comm/Almost could be scum

Be me and have them call you scum. The vibes get much easier to see in my shoes.

Be us and try NOT to call you scum.

[Almost50]

My concern is that Tywin was trying to delay the James lynch until a counter wagon formed.. Maybe I am just being paranoid and we have a TvT here but I am not sure Tywin is town. It felt like he was just luke warm about lynching James.

I dont see Vilfam as scum going on the VCA . If Vilfam is scum than she and Nero was super into bussing James to save thier own hides.

James guilty on Comm makes little sense .....if Comm flipped town than James would be eating rope today bc it would be clear he was fake claiming and was scum. If Comm flipped scum than he would get tons of town creds at the expense of lynching a scum buddy. Either way seems like risky play

not sure what to think of the whole Redirector decussion as it verges on out guess the mod. Than again I tend to be the one with the wild speculation ...so I dont know

Your fuzzy logic is intriguing. Let me try to address your thoughts as they appear on the quoted post:

1- I didn't see Tywin trying to save James. I saw Nero doing it. Tywin merely wanted to get a better read on everyone else by letting them speak before we lynched the caught scum and said so explicitly.

2- Nero did NOT try to bus James. Nero was trying his best to redirect the lynch. THAT is how I knew he was scum and thus why I shot him.

3- Vifam did do much either way. However, it must be noted (and it has been numerous times) that the Vifam wagon on D1 stalled resulting in a NL with both flipped Scum NOT willing to vote him.

4- It should also be noted how RC (now NC) went strong against both Nero and Vifam, and we now know Nero was Scum, so... I mean, I trust RC's reads to a great extent and his slot is clearly Town (I did defend that slot based on the way RC acted even before NC took over and/or Nero flipped).

5- The guilty on Comm was clearly a ploy to get him lynched, and YES James would have followed the next day but ONLY after had used his SECOND Ninja shot, rendering him a mere Goon. Losing a goon in return of a Role Cop is always welcome, especially since they didn't see the Nero assassination coming.

6- The redirector is now a FACT. It's in no way outguessing the mod anymore. Comm checked fitz and got my role instead, so 3 possibilities: Bus Driver, Redirector or Comm is a Goon and scum wanted to sacrifice him to out the Vig. (How they guessed there was one to begin with is meh. No extra kills for 2 nights = no SK, but why would they be certain there was a Vig?)

Anyway, Scum Bus Driver makes no sense to switch 2 Town slots with each other. Town Bus Driver should have claimed.

Goon making that stunt still sounds too farfetched even to me.

Scum redirector makes sense to redirect the Role Cop to a Town slot every day of the week, just in case Comm targeted one of them (and I would have expected him to target James even after he said that he won't).

If you want to refute our "speculation" you had better come up with a solid alternative narrative to explain all results and actions. Saying something doesn't convince you but failing to offer a logical alternative is scummy play regardless of it coming from a likely Town slot.

[Almost50]

See? Ram sees it too.

[Almost50]

4) what about RC reads makes you think that his reads are sheepable....besides the Nero read. I am trying to understand you a bit more

I meant RC's reads in general. I have played with RC several times before, and I know he can act crazy, but he has GOOD reads.

[Almost50]

Yeah im not flipping scum guys


If were lynching me look into Fitz/SlySly/Tywin/Xan

Then make a friggin' push on Sly or Xan, Goddammit! Do something useful. It feels like you made a mistake signing up and wanted out ASAP.

Also, try to SPECULATE why Scum didn't want you lynched on D1. Give it a try. Maybe your talk will draw my attention to something I missed.

[Almost50]

I dont wanna make a push lol

[Almost50]

VOTE: SlySly

Fine. I can go with that.

VOTE: SlySly

[Almost50]

VOTE: HavingFitz

No can do. You're probably back to the no NK when fitz was jailed, but that doesn't hold IMHO since I know Mafia had to also have delayed shots just like I do, and having used their non-delayed shot on N1 they must've used the delayed shot to kill PV on N2 or they have all non-delayed shots but they can only kill on non-consecutive nights.

In short, I don't think the no NK on N2 had anything to do with fitz either being the shooter or the target.

[Almost50]

I don't think Sly would use the little activity he has to scumread James if they were scum partners together

Why not? James was already set as the scapegoat to get Comm lynched, so distancing from him would make perfect sense.

The question is: Is it normal for Sly to be a lurker? I seem to recall him being much more active in the last Skull game I played with him.

P.S. ISO'ing is not for me and certainly not in this game. I tried someone (I don't even remember who) and they voted someone that I had to go back and see what slot it was. Due to replacements I fail to follow who was interacting with whom. We only have maybe 6 players who had started the game and we have 2 slots that have been replaced more than once, so let's keep it simple. Sly is as good a lynch as you in my view.

[Almost50]

If anything he'd just avoid the topic of James' claim altogether

Nero didn't really bring up James until it was time for James to actually die

"Different strokes for different folks" come to mind. Nero was ACTIVE, so he could do whatever and could deflect suspicion on the spot if needs be (and he probably did well vs RC). Sly is lying low so cannot afford to have to switch to "hyperactive" whenever the case of him avoiding James was brought up.

[Almost50]

VOTE: fuzz
James called Sly scum all of day 1? Then this is prob better although if he never voted him that's sus

This is it.

VOTE: Elena

You parked your vote on Sly until a wagon started to form on him and ONLY NOW you decided to switch your vote to Fuzzy?

As I said before, it's either Sly + Elena or Vifam + Xnad and it now looks like the former pair to me.

[Almost50]

TTTT
Pere
Ram
Slysly
2 I sr 2 are good info lynches take your pick we lynch in there

Sly Ram

Let's lynch Sly or TTTT come on
VOTE: TTTT
Pedit: This one

Slysly is also a great lynch

VOTE: Sly Final choice

VOTE: SlySly
If I won't get support with Ram I'll try tomorrow and vote his partner

XnadrojX
TheFuzzylogic99
SlySly
Havingfitz
Ramcius
are the only people that can be lynched today at least 2 scum in this

And after all this you switch when the wagon you had been desperately promoting finally starts to get momentum??

[Almost50]

@Ram:

Check 3766 and tell me how Elena "suddenly" realized "James called Sly scum all of

day 1

". Where was THAT for all the time she was rallying for a Sly wagon?

[Almost50]

Bussing Fitz/Elena to protect James 2-shot Ninja?

That was only half a bus IMHO. Nero was putting a conditional SR on Elena if RC/Yume (now NC) flipped Town, which required the lynch of the RC/Yume/NC slot first. Even then, scum would have probably bused James after he used his 2nd Ninja shot and saved Elena for yet another day and night.

[Almost50]

I'm pretty sure scum is in fuzz/

sly

/fiz anyway

And there she goes again!! Like, "Sly is scum but I won't lynch him. I'll only call him scum all game and the minute he gets voted by anuone other than me I'll switch to another target". This is awful.

[Almost50]

@Vifam:

WHAT THE FREAK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? What IN BLOODY HELL was Town about Firebringer?

Like, this is literally his first post of the game:

Fucking hell, this role is the worst.

Whats up folks.

I do not plan to read anything.

Then this:

nero cain, i declare you my town beard for day one.
who should i help u lynch?

Then about 29 "refer to #" that served no purpose but to spam the thread. Then he engaged in a hangman duel with RC. he posted 167 posts in total I challenge you to show me THREE game related posts of them with any useful content at all. FB is nothing but a troll and a spammer as either alignment. He's not even a legit Mafia player tbh.

Skelda you may have an argument there, but FIREBRINGER?

[Almost50]

I'm pretty sure scum is in fuzz/

sly

/fiz anyway

And there she goes again!! Like, "Sly is scum but I won't lynch him. I'll only call him scum all game and the minute he gets voted by anuone other than me I'll switch to another target". This is awful.

Do I think Sly is scum? Maybe yes but I am more confident in fuzz being scum so I'm going to keep my vote there if you think that's scummy then so be it

Based on WHAT? "I think X is scummy" is NOT an argument. It's a hollow statement. Here.. I'll help you:

1- How much experience do you have with Fuzzy prior to this game?

2- What feels the same/different from his play in those games to this one that pinged you?

3- If not enough prior experience, then what exactly has he said or done here that pings you so hard?

4- Can you show a link between Fuzzy and either Nero/James??

This isn't SURVIVOUR FGS. You don't vote someone based on how you like/dislike them. The time to do that has long passed (D1). Now we try to base our cases on reasons from within the game.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[Almost50]

His replace out genuinely felt like he was frustrated town because no one was listening to him

My man, you don't play hangman and expect to be listened to. You don't spam and expect someone would even read what you type. You don't become willingly the site wide shit poster of the year and get frustrated people don't take you seriously. And FB is like that as either alignment. He tried to ruin Skull's game leading a campaign to abandon game and got force replaced for it recently, so I do NOT even consider evaluating anything FB posts anymore. I try to read the slot either by the play of OTHER players (in which case Skelda was leaning Town while Elena's play is scummy as can be) or by the interaction that other slots had with his slot.

But to make things simple, we are lynching within Sly/Elena/Vifam/XnadrojX, so pick one. Once they flip we can reevaluate. If you're not going to lynch Elena/Sly then I can always go back and do this:

VOTE: Vifam

I'm not having another 10 days of "let's not lynch X bc I'm not sure, but let's lynch Y instead a;though I have no real reason to say so but to appear like I have a stance of my own."

[Almost50]

@Sly:

What do you think of Elena sudden switch off you and unto Fuzzy instead right after Vifam and myself decided to JOIN HER on you?

[Almost50]

If we lynch Elena and she flips Town I'm shooting fitz just to br absolutely sure. He claimed a VT, so not a great loss to Town if he is telling the truth, but saves us a mislynch.

[Almost50]

@fitz:

You OK with that?

[Almost50]

Yes I did, and it makes sense for anyone who signs up to a game to do so. However, you're still not making much of an effort to disect the game, mate. "Firebringer's play was town" makes as much sense as "eating dirt is healthy" to me.

Now let's concentrate on Elena's play, and precisely the Sly issue that I've been talking about here. WHY would she be pushing a slot/player ever since she replaced in and walk away from the wagon the minute it gains momentum?

[Almost50]

But she claims to TR Vifam and strongly so.

[Almost50]

If we lynch Elena and she flips Town I'm shooting fitz just to br absolutely sure. He claimed a VT, so not a great loss to Town if he is telling the truth, but saves us a mislynch.

How does Elena flipping town indict me?

And regardless of your reply....I'm always agains the the lynching of me.

Does any of "just to be absolutely sure", "claimed a VT", "not a great loss to

Town

", or "saves us a

mislynch

" tell you anything about me scum reading you at all?

[Almost50]

vigged if you have the shots,

Too bad I seem to have misplaced my ammunition box.

[Almost50]

Sly
The only case I been hearing is that scum did not lynch him day 1...... this is weak

Ram did add scum did not vote him day 2 but this really don't hold up much either

Again, if you think it's weak you offer something better. You do not wait for things to happen on D4. You MAKE things happen.

And if you're wondering why I'm hard on you, it's because I believe you have a much better quality play to offer than this. The only difference between you and Vifam is I have actually seen Vifam do it, while rating you as a good player is still a gut read.

The following may not be directly relevant to this game, but rather a general preference. I hate stalling. I hate lurking. I like activity. In Varsoon's last game I was played by the RR duo (Cerb/Drixx) like a puppet, and I have no qualms with it. They were GOOD, and I have MUCH respect to to them both for being so active and being able to manipulate me.

So, it doesn't really matter whether you're Town or scum in a game with me. I play to entertain myself FIRST, and shoot for the win SECOND. Both are primary goals, but I would not deliberately sabotage a game or ruin the fun in it for everyone to get my win. I enjoy being manipulative myself when I'm scum, and enjoy trying to figure out manipulating scum when I'm town. That's where my frustration stems from.

So, back to this game: If you think it a weak reason/case on Vifam, offer me an alternative based on BETTER REASONING, and I might go with it.

[Almost50]

If we lynch Elena and she flips Town I'm shooting fitz just to br absolutely sure. He claimed a VT, so not a great loss to Town if he is telling the truth, but saves us a mislynch.

How does Elena flipping town indict me?

And regardless of your reply....I'm always agains the the lynching of me.

Does any of "just to be absolutely sure", "claimed a VT", "not a great loss to

Town

", or "saves us a

mislynch

" tell you anything about me scum reading you at all?

So you'll shoot me because you think I am town (albeit just a VT) so that we don't have a mislynch? How about you shoot for someone who might be scum and we don't shoot OR lynch me. That would save town from a mislynch AND eliminate scum or a more suspect player. Assuming your shot is able to go through.

1- Your survivalist attitude is starting to ping me.
2- You also got too alarmed by the idea you stopped solving the game altogether and made this your one and only issue. That's ALSO alarming.
3- Why don't you just let me handle my shit and you handle yours. Whatever makes you think Elena's flipping Town anyway? Because -according to your last published full read list in 3590- you had Elena as your third suspect after Vifam and SlySly, so I don't see where the confidence in her flipping Town comes from.

[Almost50]

OK, guys. fitz' reaction is rubbing me the wrong way. It's not the natural response from a "mere VT" at the game state we're in. We can lynch that one too. Who was still pushing this slot besides Fuzzy?

[Almost50]

Btw, a Vig does not shoot "suspects". A Vig should always go for the compromise on semi-unlynchable slots unless they are mechanically confirmed. I would have never shot James for example, simply because he would have veen lynched sooner or later, so why waste my bullets?

[Almost50]

@Fitz:

I did ask if you were OK with me shooting you, yes. A simple Yes/No would have sufficed. Instead, you asked why I would scum read you if Elena flipped Town (false assumption. Shows incomprehension of my statement), and when I said I didn't you started arguing and directing me on whom I should/shouldn't shoot. THAT is what pings me. A VT would normally respond along the lines of "Whatever, dude." or "I don't think that's a good idea.", and if the condition was for Elena to flip green and you actually had a SR on her then it could've been "That's IF she flips green."

Now, I'm NOT trying to tell you how to respond. Do whatever you wish, mate. However, that was a reaction test and you failed by my own standards, so YES you are now back in my list of suspects. Now whether you are THE lynch of the day is up to the rest of town to decide. I don't think you should be. I still think you seriously need to be eliminated regardless of your alignment. If you're Scum then it's obvious why. If you're Town, then we deny Scum another opportunity to manipulate their way into a victory in late game, as it doesn't look like you're getting lynched soon but you are far from being confirmed still, hence my dilemma and my proposed solution.

[Almost50]

I've asked this before and nobody claimed having been neighborized by PV. It thus follows PV must've neighborized a scumster or not at all. I'm leaning the former. Scum found out about him being a neighborizer and took him out, but I cannot really take a guess of any degree of confidence on whom PV might've targeted with his ability. Any thoughts?

[Almost50]

Almost why do you have such a strong townread on Tywin? Other than "he's actually trying"

I can't explain it. It's a strong gut feeling based on how he plays and how he words his thoughts. Call me a fool post-game if he flips scum, but I seriously doubt the way Tywin phrases his posts can come from a scumster ever.

P-edit:

2 possibilities here: Either PV was shot on N2 with a delayed shot (just as soon as they found he was a neighborizer as he recruited one of them on N1, and with Comm being set to be mislynched and them not knowing about either me or Ram at that point it makes perfect sense to take out the one PR they knew about)...

OR they didn't want to risk their NK being blocked by the JK, so opted to shoot someone who was not outed.

I -of course- am obviously leaning the former.

[Almost50]

VOTE: SlySly
-G

Bring forth the votes! My lynch will give you something to analyze much more than that 1-shot cop claim.

Btw, just doing random rereading (out of boredom, actually) and I came across the above quote. Now is a good time as any to elaborate on that one, Sly. We don't have to run you up in order to get a claim and explanation. Just spit it all out, if you please. Thank you.

[Almost50]

So I tried going back to ISO PV's last few posts to see his reads before his NK, but I don't think it means anything. He was going after comm and Almost, not Nero or James. He did also mention a few others though. They're basically everyone already in the lynch pool.

Again; PV was most likely shot on N2, after he had neighborized someone on N1. He probably was non-consecutive (as is Comm). If you want to take a guess, I think you should check his posts towards the end of D1 (thus the reads he used to invite his N1 target). Anything after that is not important (unless he intended to invite someone they didn't want in that neighborhood, which I doubt).

[Almost50]

Why waste our time and yours? If you're confident your claim won't get you lynched you do it NOW and we move on. Not doing it keeps you in the lynch pool for no good reason. We've long passed the point of holding cards close to our chests FGS. There are other NK targets if that's what you're afraid of.

[Almost50]

So, you're telling me you're a machine that just executes a set if instructions w/o reevaluation according to the change od circumstances. That's cool.

@fits:

You may now relax. I've got me a bigger fish to fry, One that itself told us it's flip will be beneficial to town but -at the same time- refuses to tell us the info of said flip while it's still alive.

[Almost50]

@Sly:

Straight up: Are you a friggin' doctor? THAT is what I want to know.

[Almost50]

And what IS the point of running you up up to L-1 in order for you to claim and then we back off and switch to another target? IT IS JUST A WASTE OF TIME! Right now it's either you or Vifam, and if you're Town you should be helping us decide early enough. Let alone, running you up is DANGEROUS if you're Town. You COULD be lol!hammered by Scum or even by a lousy Townie who just logged on to see who was being voted and added their vote w/o reading. It happens and you know it.

We are outed already, myself, Comm, Ram, and even Fuzzy has claimed. Your claim should help us determine what sort of power(s) we have on our hands as well as try to guess what scum have still got. I know they do have a redirector, but is the other one a goon or a PR? That I don't know.

Besides, there are some roles that you might be that may shed more light on the situation as a whole. I don't want to go deeper into this so as not to inspire you for ideas if you're scum, and -also- to not give SCUM ideas in case you're Town.

So, once again I urge you to reevaluate the situation and try to fill in the missing pieces for us if you can.

[Almost50]

Like, you can't be a Tracker for starters. You don't put a Tracker AND a Watcher in the same setup unless it's a 30+ players list.

You also cannot be a Town RB bc the Town already has a JK (an even more effective RB role with additional protection to the target).. are you following?

So, let me try to rephrase my request: Does your role seem to fit with the claimed/flipped set of roles so far?

[Almost50]

Alright.

VOTE: Sly Sly

This IS my FINAL decision.

[Almost50]

And I swear even you were IC and mod confirmed it that I will still keep my vote on you until you're lynched. I ahte it when everyone acts like they know it all or that theirs is the one and only right way to play. You have contributed ZIP to the game, and you refuse to even confirm that you have a role that goes with what we know of the setup, and you're happy with the game stalling as it is. The faster we get rid of you the better. If you're Scum we'd have one more to go. If you're Town I don't want you living at LyLo, the day before or the day before that.

[Almost50]

@Everyone: If you could daykill someone right now, who would it be? (Looks like a weird question, but it has its reasons).

Undoubtedly, James.

Move on from James and find someone else to vote, because the only people with any notice for killing a claimed cop on d1 is Scum.

Not true. He's a 1-shot cop. He could screw up his one shot. He's not a big loss. If his claim is true and we lynched him, big deal. It would be worth it not to listen to his snippiness for the entire game. I'd be willing to lynch him just so the rest of the game can be fun.

FTR, it didn't take much to realize this is a Town slot. His first 2 posts scream Town to me considering the circumstances they were posted under.

HOWEVER, this lack of cooperation is making me think lynching Sly now is a hell lot better than having him lurk and/or duck for the next month or so. I could've done the same and let Comm get lynched because "I felt it was better for Town that I don't out myself".

[Almost50]

@Ram:

How does the following quote even remotely suggest a VT?

VOTE: SlySly
-G

Bring forth the votes! My lynch will give you something to analyze much more than that 1-shot cop claim.

[Almost50]

Prodding Xnadrojx

Can we lynch this?

no, we can't lynch our mod

It's been done once though, but that was a bastard game (and the only way to win was by lynching the MOD).

[Almost50]

@Tywin:

I think it's "noobs excitment" or something. When I firsts started playing Mafia (on another forum) I almost always ended up with some kind of a Cop role, and I almost always claimed by the end of D1 or the start of D2 (on D1 bc I obviously used to act more scummy carrying a Cop role, so I was pushed an wagoned often, On D2 bc I always got a guilty on my first check, and I never knew how to make a proper case w/o outing myself.)

Anyway, I have nothing against the lynching of Xnadorj either. He's one of the 4 I wanted to lynch from (erm.. 5 now, with Sly Sly joining the pool), so..

VOTE: Xnadorj

It also serves to save us the headache of a prolonged day with nothing constructive being done, and/or waiting for the replacement to do some proper reading (which they never do).

[Almost50]

@Fuzzy/fitz:

At this stage we need to be united as Town. We need to eliminate the doubtful slots. It doesn't matter which of them goes first (it only matters regarding the time it will take us to win the game).

@fitz: The Vifam lynch isn't giving us any more info that that of Xnad, Elena, or even Sly. They're all valid lynches at this point, so please go along with the bulk of Town. Fuzzy doesn't approve of the Vifam lynch either, so we're moving in circles here.

[Almost50]

Besides, I can deal with whomever we can't lynch. Comm can also learn something about someone else. Unless one of us has already been shot last night and the other will be shot "directly" tonight we have THAT on our side. Even a redirector won't work to stop my shot (that's a new one, I know, but I didn't feel the need to claim that bit before).

[Almost50]

And to eliminate confusion: I'm claiming STRONG WILLED. My action cannot be redirected. I had hoped to draw the redirector last night though so that Comm's check would go through. If they opted to shoot him that would have still got me my shot on Nero anyway, as so was the case if they opted to shoot me (they probably did, thinking I had no shot last night but will have one tonight).

So, let's just lynch one of the 4, and right now it seems like Xnad is the one. If he flips green then Sly is SCUM I'm sure, and vise versa. We can reevaluate after we see the flip.

[Almost50]

@Tywin:

I would also appreciate your input on whom I should shoot. I'll be using my delayed shot tonight, so that gives them another day to be useful if we're mistaking and they're town.

[Almost50]

My shot cannot be messed with. It can be blocked, but cannot be redirected.

[Almost50]

Why should you? You can protect someone who is not me/Comm. Jail Tywin for instance. or NC for that matter. I'm not shooting those and Comm can still investigate them if he wants to.

[Almost50]

OIC. OK.. not shooting anyone then. Go ahead and protect someone instead.

[Almost50]

Last game I was a vig and I was manipulated into Killing a toen leaning party by scum and not shooting scum.

Half true, but also half false. Instead of farside you were going to shoot ME, which would have been ALSO you shooting TOWN, so it really didn't matter.

[Almost50]

i can't do anything either way till redirector alive - they simply send me somewhere else to not mess with their target, and fishing for redirector gives us nothing - they can't mess with you, Comm probably used ability last night, so blocking him makes no difference

1- Of you can't do anything either way, why bring it up in the first place? I said I was shooting someone and you came to announce it's another night to rest THEN, hinting if I wasn't shooting you would have had some protection to do.

Furthermore, who cares if the redirector messes with your target if I'm NOT shooting? I mean, Comm likely does NOT have an investigation shot tonight either, so you either protect someone or you fail to so but you can't cause harm yourself.

So, you go ahead and protect someone of your own pick. If I end up shooting someone Scum will have to choose between redirecting my shot or your protection as they obviously can't do both. If I do not shoot they can redirect your JK to someone that will either be me (who is not shooting) or Comm (who is not investigating). *Shrug*

Last, by keeping it the way it is now, scum don't know whether I'm shooting or not. They may redirect you to me which means they can't also kill me tonight. Or they may kill me but Comm will be alive to out another investigative result tomorrow. Or they may kill Comm and redirect your action to me but then you won't be submitting an action and my shot will still go through. You get what I'm saying? Keep then uncertain of who will/will not submit an action. Let them decide their best course of action on their own w/o us letting them know what we intend to do. I asked Tywin (and ONLY Tywin) for a reason that I hope he will understand, but if HE doesn't get it then I trust nobody else will.

[Almost50]

I'd rather have lynched Vifam and possibly take out the redirector,

^ this.

Again, let's not go in circles. I think we all agree that Xnad is either scum or useless town. If he flips scum, GREAT. If he flips Town, it still helps our cause to drop the extra load off our backs. Someone not reading the game is very likely to vote the wrong person at the wrong time. So far he voted Vifam, PV, Fuzzy, Ram and Elena. Four of these are still alive and the one flipped was Town. Like, all I know is he's TR'ing me and is suspicious of both Fuzzy & Sly (the latter he never voted, btw). Now tell me you trust him to any degree.. and I'm not even talking about LyLo. I'm talking about when one of us is blinded or hesitant and we need the other townies to unite. If Xnad is still alive tomorrow we need the WHOLE TOWN to vote a certain way in order to get a lynch through, and Fuzzy is unlikely to get along with it either, so -at least- we keep those who are willing to talk, even remotely until we get rid of those who are not willing to give it a try to start with.

Somebody PLEASE HAMMER.

P-edit:

And I explained the WIFOM even further. One of myself/Comm is going to be alive tomorrow, and someone is going to be shot -by me- tonight regardless

[Almost50]

We know the last mafia is a redirector and they can't redirect our actions because they must make the kill now with goon dead.

Unfortunately, they can. They are now the last scum alive and can do both.

Mod

does mafia members can use their abilities and carry same night?

No, unless they are the last remaining member of the scum team.

Assuming carry = do the kill.

Not sure why they shot Ramcius over redirecting him though, that makes no sense what so ever.

They can't do both so they preferred getting rid of the player over redirecting him.

See above.

It's very likely that they redirected my shot and killed the JK to prevent any no NK's in the future. Redirecting my shot gives them one more NK to their advantage and being the last one in 9 players they do need it.

Unfortunately; I used my delayed shot (won't tell you on whom yet though) so they'll have to wait to see whom I shot, and besides I COULD NOT HAVE BEEN REDIRECTED, so that was a waste. It's still good for scum if I used my shot on someone other than them though. They got a free kill anyway.

There's also the possibility of Ram being killed to prove him a Town JK and thus bring back fitz itno the suspects pool based on No NK when jailed theory.

According to my reads; Sly is unlikely to be scum with Xnad flipping red.

Now let's go back to this:

Vifam [L-2] RadiantCowbells, Firebringer,

Ramcius

,

ssbm_Kyouko

,

Land of Xanth

,

XnadrojX

,

PeregrineV

[/b]

Xnad ws the only flipped scum on the Vifam wagon be the end of D1. To it's either Vifam is scum and thus they didn't want him lynched, or Elena is and thus 2 on that wagon already with the other 2 staying out.

VOTE: Vifam

[Almost50]

VOTE: SlySly

And that's because ... ?

[Almost50]

Well, if he does flip redirector and the game doesn't end we know whom to lynch next

I mean, 5 scum may now look ba;anced if we assume 2 goons (1 flipeed), 1 encryptor (flipped), 2-X Ninja (flipped) and redirector (unflipped but strong evidence they exist).

This effectively means the PRs scum had were a redirector and a 2-shot Ninja (encryptor is cool and all, but not a PR to be reckned IMHO). They were up against a JK, Watcher, Role Cop & a Vig (not to mention a 2-X neighboprizer), so 5 is ok for balance.

[Almost50]

In short: Vifam lynch not ending the game automatically gets Elena lynched tomorrow! Hmmm.. thinking of switching to Elena today.

[Almost50]

The thing is my early game notes said Xnad was NOT scum with Sly, while Elena could be. With Xnad actually flipping red I took it that Sly wasn't scum, and thus put Elena a step back on the lynch priority. Had Xnad flipped green I would have been positive both Elena and Sly were scum together.

[Almost50]

Im VT

Villain Trolling??

[Almost50]

So, I've done a reread during the night phase, and I'm sorry we lynched Vifam (but still, your style WILL get you lynched more often as you fall into apathy).

Anyhow, Sly Sly is almost confirmed Town now, and 1239 makes Fuzzy Town too. Here's the reworked readlist of mine:

Unlynchable: SlySly,
Almost Unlynchable: Not Chara, Havingfitz, TheFuzzyLogic99,
Not Today Lynch Pool:
Compromise Lynch Pool: Elena Fisher,
Primary Lynch Pool: Tywin Lannister,

VOTE: Tywin

This is the game winning lynch for us, guys.

P.S. My shot on Tywin should have resolved today, so it can't be Ram's JK that kept him alive either.

[Almost50]

Warning: Messy case as it's made of random remarks and observations. I haven't had the time to properly format things to look neat and organized.

Tywin soft defended James early on D1. He mostly was opposed to Comm although agreeing he was not a good lynch. I'm not in the mood to actually give a detailed analysis of the new read, but you can reread the opening 15-20 pages yourselves and see what you get (keeping in my mind the flips we've already seen). 766 sums it all up though.That and the fact both myself and Comm weren't killed earlier (especially Comm, who was being used to discover roles AND was useful to keep around bc he hard TR Tywin).

Now let's take a random example of a VC and see how it looks. In VC 1.10 (783) we see a 5 person wagon on Pepchoninga; all of whom have flipped Town. Scum have obviously avoided that wagon and are even trying to defend Pep (ex: James) in hopes the wagon would actually go through and then every one on it would become a suspect. (Things didn't work out too well though and they had to NK 3 of them already). Now let's see where flipped scum are: 2 are on Sly (hardly makes him a scum p of theirs). Nero is on Uzi (obviously distancing) which makes Skelda likely town (unless you think the scum team was voting in pairs. It was already odd to see Uzi+James voting together). Comm is Town I'm sure and TTTT already flipped green. Havingfitz is on Nero (again, can't be scum unless all scum did was vote eachother or WITH eachother), and Sly is on James (see previous remark regarding fitz). This only leaves Tywin + the two not voting (apart from my own slot). Again, Pep (now NC) is Town, so it's Fuzzy or Tywin, and I think this is Town Fuzzy still (actually had that read strengthened by Uzi backing off Fuzzy as soon as the latter claimed VT. Scum were fishing for PRs and not interested in lynching VTs early).

And now check the bottom of James' 864. 2 TRs (both flipped green) and 4 SRs (one flipped red and one flipped green already). Comm is Town and it's not customary for scum to include more than one of their p's in their scum reads. Even funnier is he was voting with his own scum read (his p, Uzi) on Sly. That pretty much clears Sly IMHO. Also Nero's 870 supports the notion, so Sly in Town (but I still hate his play on this game just as I do Vifam's).

Disclaimer: I wrote this up overnight, obviously, so not knowing who would die. I submitted the kill on Tywin but kept the notes just in case. It might be that we have a scum protector along with Tywin being the redirector.

[Almost50]

@Elena:

NC is Town based on the confrontation between RC & Nero, and RC rage quitting. That's Town RC, and Nero already flipped Scum, so yeah.

Fuzzy defending RC (or rather wanting him to stay around longer) is a Town tell. NO SCUM would want Town!RC alive in this game, and especially not with the face-off he was having with Nero.

Sly is Town based on a number of posts back and forth with the flipped scum early on D1.

fitz is mechanically clear from being the redirector at the very least.

I'm the Town Vig (and I should be lynched if Tywin flips green, btw).

That leaves you and Tywin. If you know yourself to be Town you should be voting Tywin today. It's that simple.

[Almost50]

If you shot at me two nights ago and it should've resolved today,

No. I shot at you last night. I didn't shoot the night before.

[Almost50]

except that he claims to have shot me the other night,

Why did/do you assume it was the other night and not last night? A delayed shot from the other night OR a direct shot from last night should've had the same effect (i.e. resolved today), so why did you automatically assume it was the other night?

You also need to explain not ever ONCE voting any of the 3 flipped scumsters. You gave "intent" to hammer the two who got lynched, but when it came to Vifam you didn't have a problem joining the wagon earlier (to ensure you weren't put in the same position and then have to state intent and wait, I presume).

Anyway, THAT was the reason why I shot you. I even said that I did a reread OVERNIGHT, so I still don't know why you automatically assumed it was "the other night".

P-edit: I used a TIMESHIFTED shot, not a normal one. It should have resolved already.

P-edit 2: Did I say Fuzzy was confirmed?? Show me where I said that, please.

[Almost50]

P-edit 2: Did I say Fuzzy was confirmed?? Show me where I said that, please.

Close....

Almost Unlynchable: Not Chara, Havingfitz, TheFuzzyLogic99,

EXACTLY! So why does Tywin try to make it look like I doubted NC but confirmed Fuzzy??

[Almost50]

And I'm still waiting to see why he assumed my shot was normal from the night before and not timeshifted from last night.

[Almost50]

You ARE missing the fact I said it was a TIMSHIFTED shot so it should have resolved on the same night not the next one. Can you explain that?

[Almost50]

Ok.. forget about my shot.. just pretend I didn't shoot at all. It's not even an essential part of the case against Tywin.

Now why has Tywin never ever voted Xnad, James or Nero? Why did he soft defend James against Comm on D1?

Why was he voting with scum here:

SlySly [L-6]

Tywin Lannister, Lil Uzi Vert, James3

Why does his vote appear on Peregrine, LoX, Vifam, TTTT, Kyouko (which was a hammer w/o stating intention btw), all of whom flipped green, in addition to Sly & Skelda/FB/Elena??

I mean, the fact every one Tywin voted flipped Town and he never ever voted scum alone should make you lean town on both Sly and Elena.

Also check the posturing:

We have 3+ days left. There is no reason whatsoever for anyone who prefers an RC lynch to be voting ssbm. There's still plenty of time to switch the lynch back to RC.

Screw this. VOTE: SSBM

Not caught up but this is better than another NL.

Was today deadline or is it passed already? Oh well was V/LA with a fever past few days

Tywin hammers then pretends not to know when the deadline was. he tried to justify it by him being "not caught up", which begs the question: Why vote when you're not caught up?? Isn't this the very thing he blamed Fuzzy for doing on JAMES? So it was alright to hammer Ssbm w/o reading but it was bad to do so to Scum!James?

Furthermore, it was only 21 minutes after James had declared there to be 3 days left, but -of course- not being caught up excuses him for missing that and then asking if it was deadline already. I mean, I would ask first then vote, or at least include the question in the same post as my vote, but a subsequent post after the fact is posturing to reinforce the act of ignorance. Tywin is never ignorant and is a player to be reckoned, so I very much doubt he didn't know exactly what he was doing.

P-edit:



CHECK THIS OUT! Oh, wait.. I just HAVE TO include the quote. It would look PERFECT with my case above. Hold on!

It also was my understanding based on what ssbm said earlier in the game before you morons lynched him

Say what? WHO lynched Ssbm? More to it: WHO placed that hammer 3 days before deadline? AMAZING. I'll read the rest of your response after this. I just thought it was cute to include this one in this very post.

[Almost50]

I'll be dead regardless long before you are,

To my knowledge we are only 7 left alive, so if you're not lynched today I don't even see how you would die before I do!

because comm basically confirmed you somehow.

So scum aren't going to shoot a confirmed vig?? I'm not following. Because I know you claimed a VT, so.. in a hypothetical world that you're town.. tell me again: Why would YOU die before me?

[Almost50]

and then you made up multiple modifiers that can't all be true or you'd be the most OP role ever invented.

What modifiers? I only said I could not be redirected, but could still be blocked.

[Almost50]

It's possible you're just a Mafia framer that made a great gambit.

To my limited knowledge; Framer only makes an innocent townie look guilty to investigations, but I've never heard about one who returns a certain ROLE too, let alone make someone GUILTY return an innocent result (I know a lawyer should do that, but also just a guilty returning not guilty result).

[Almost50]

So you can explain everything to town after I'm gone

I already did. I explicitly said I should be lynched if you flipped Town.

[Almost50]

You ARE missing the fact I said it was a TIMSHIFTED shot so it should have resolved on the same night not the next one. Can you explain that?

Maybe the mod changed things from previous Timeshift Mafia games, but it's my understanding that only scum have that. I still think you're lying or id be dead already.

3rd or 4th time you bring this up, which makes me wonder: How come you had no problem with my timeshifted shot that hit NERO and resolved ON THE SAME NIGHT my normal shot resolved on TTTT. And I'm the one who didn't read?? *Smirk*

[Almost50]

Also, why would I assume you are a vigi without x-shots,

My shots ARE limited.

[Almost50]

YOU were the one who kept insisting over and over and over that there HAS to be a Redirector. Not a bus driver. Not any other role. Redirector.

And I'm proven right. It didn't make sense for a bus driver to switch two town slots for starters. It is evident now that we know both Comm and Ram are Town that a bus driver EVEN IF it resolved before the JK (not sure about NAR) still could not have switched me with fitz because I would have been jailed myself and my shot would not have gone through (I KNOW kills resolve after JK and I KNOW I don't have a strongman modifier and I even said that. I can't bypass protections).

Town!Comm targeted fitz (excuse me for dropping your Town status here, fitz. It's for the sake of the argument). fitz was jailed by Town!Ram. Comm instead got MY ROLE. What are your suggestions to explain it?

[Almost50]

Also, seems like you shoot quite a lot but there's only 1 NK ever.

Really? Then I must be hallucinating. I was under the impression Nero, TTTT and PV all dies the same night!

[Almost50]

The very weird thing is that you want to lynch me when you've already supposedly shot me.

I .. SHOT .. YOU .. AND .. YOU .. DID .. NOT .. DIE. You're probably BP or NK immune or something. Or maybe there is a scum Doctor who is protecting you. I doubt Comm would have been shot before me if only one scumster remained, unless you were counting on my shot to rid you of another town player. In fact, that is why I held my shot the night before. I only had this one shot left and I wanted to be sure.

[Almost50]

Now that I brought it up, you claim it was timeshift. That's gotta be a lie or you are scum who just slipped.

So you didn't even notice the shot on Nero was also Timeshifted. The SHOCK of losing your encryptor must've confused you then. I know every town player did notice that because it was the reason they excluded there being a SK.

I like your reaction here. I really do. Trying everything you can to shade me. I mean, who cares what you say now? Once you're lynched the game is over and you're excused. Great game though. I REALLY tip my hat for you, my friend.

[Almost50]

One more thing:

@Almost: please explain why you said SlySly is confirmed town? That's clearly not the case, and it's another blatant lie. There's absolutely no way that you'd know that whatsoever even if it were true unless you are scum. Please explain. Comm said that Not Chara and you are confirmed town, NC based on no info given but assuming he investigated the slot, and you because he investigated fitz and you 'claimed' vigi convienently after nobody else did. So technically, you're not confirmed, but that's not what I'm asking about. I'm asking why you said Sly is confirmed town. Only an actual cop with an investigation or scum would know that. Sly never claimed, and he certainly wasn't confirmed by Comm. So you have some explaining to do with this one bud.

Now this IS a scum claim. You are now saying Comm got a Vig result on fitz, and I claimed it while the real Vig is sitting around still watching?? And after you asked about me saying Sly was "confirmed" the first time I asked you to quote it, and you didn't. fitz however did come up with the quote and the exact wording "almost" confirmed. You must have developed an allergy tp the word "almost" though, so you're excused.

Framer is ridiculous, and Framer on fitz while Comm investigated him is even more so. How would I have known who Comm would investigate? And -even assuming the unthinkable and that there is a role that returns a certain role rather than guilty/not guilty- it would have been much easier to just make fitz look guilty, lynch him, then the Role Cop follows.

In fact, it was I who saved Comm from the lynch by claiming and lead the charge on James instead, while you postured pretending to demand more discussion (which I bought, so kodus to you) giving James time to come back and say he was trolling in a desperate attempt to save him for just one more night.

[Almost50]

How would I have any idea if you used a timeshift shot on Nero or not?

1- Because I said that I did. Right here.. in this thread .. back at the time when he flipped.

2- Because I also said I shot TTTT who flipped at the same day start. I shot TTTT on one night and Nero on the next and they both flipped along with PV on the same day. That's how.

[Almost50]

Maybe it's better to see if he dies tonight and lynch the next lynchable player (Me)

He will NOT die tonight because my shot was NOT delayed.

[Almost50]

Was that not the night scum used their timeshift? How many do you apparently have? Again, according to ssbm, scum had 1 timeshift shot in every other game, and only scum had it. So now you are timeshift immune, multi-shot vigi that is a strongman, can't be redirected, and.. Again, any more modifiers you wanna add?

I'm now done talking to Tywin.

@The rest of you:

1- Ssbm_Kyouko is NOT the mod. What he said is NOT the bible of the game. I did have a mix of Timeshifted and Normal shots, so I know.

2- I NEVER EVER said I was a Strongman. I always explained I could not be redirected but could be blocked. In fact, EVEN IF Tywin had missed all that before it still doesn't make sense for him to maintain that claim while I claim to have shot him and he didn't die. His first response was that he was not BP, which clearly implies he KNOWS I'm not a strongman.

Continually shading me is his last resort. He is caught scum, and he did GREAT to be honest convincing the rest of us he was Town. He is just suffering from the trauma of being caught untimely. He already had Elena, Sly and Fuzzy lined up for the lynch while he shoots me, fitz & NC. I mean, let's look at the plan (forgive me if I put someone before/after their due time):

We lynch Elena, he shoots me.

You lynch Sly and he shoots fitz.

Now you're in a 3-person LyLo with Tywin, Fuzzy & NC alive. Who do you think the lynch would be?

[Almost50]

plus I want to lynch either Twyin or fritz who both are on the Vifam wagon. I guess I should be a candidate also since I was on the wagon as well.

Fitz cannot be the scum redirector AT ALL. It's mechanically IMPOSSIBLE. I've just explained that (but maybe it's in a later post to the one I'm responding to), so you want to vote Tywin.

[Almost50]

OK..

@EVERYONE:

Apart from my case on Tywin, what were your lynch pools at the start of the day. Pretend you witnessed NOTHING of the duel between me and Tywin.

I'm doing this to deal with each and every single player separately to show them why they might be wrong on someone. I will try my best to let you see the light.

[Almost50]

It's impossible even with the time shift?

Even with the timeshift yes. Because he was jailed on the night Comm's investigation resolved, so his redirection must've resolved on that night too. If that's the case then it should not have gone through in the first place because he was jailed.

The same applies to Bus Driver. If it was a Bus Driver then he was either jailed (in which case the action still didn't go through) or his action went through and I was jailed instead, and thus my shot on Nero could not have went through (refer to NAR to see which).