The real folk blues [Canceled]
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The Ascended Masters Goon
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I'm not going to be railroaded into voting a counterwagon that I'm explicitly townreading.In post 3863, Albert B. Rampage wrote:VOTE: The Ascended Masters
Sorry dude. I tried to let you live.
Then you're right, we're going to have a problem.In post 3917, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
Expedience. Rachmarie. Aristophanes.In post 3915, The Ascended Masters wrote:Who should I not be willing to work with?
What lynches do you want today?-
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And the fact that they pop and defends themselves with "my iso is null and you can't say otherwise!!" is bullshit - this isn't how townies defend themselves. If they were town, there'd be something that caught their interest by now whether it be the push on them or something random. If they were town, the same confidence of being able to "obvtown it up" at any time like they possessed in Street Fighter would be present but it isn't because they're not town.In post 3864, Nosferatu wrote:that doesn't make my iso any less null-
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Why is Nos a mislynch?In post 3919, MathBlade wrote:Course there is a problem scum won't bus and not enough people will take their mislynch options.
Vote Kraska.-
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randomidget - kill
MathBlade - town
kraska77 - townlean
Varsoon - kill
Vaxkiller - kill
Albert B. Rampage - townlean
Radical Rat - kill
DiamondSentinel - town
Mirhawk - kill
Nero Cain - town
SpyreX - town
Klingoncelt - kill
Vedith - kill
Expedience - townlean
RachMarie - town
SirCakez - kill
Skrub - town
PeregrineV - townlean
davesaz - town
pisskop - town
Panzerjager - town
mhsmith0 - kill
Drixx - town
Nosferatu - kill
Killthestory - town
Cerberus v666 - town
Aristophanes - town-
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What about Nosferatu refusing to read makes him town?In post 3926, pisskop wrote:Its the person, not the actions.-
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How many scum are you suspecting?In post 3930, DiamondSentinel wrote:Ok, the fact that you have over a third of the playerlist as kill is not a good sign, TAM...-
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Kill category and null category are blended into each other.In post 3936, DiamondSentinel wrote:
Well, I have more null reads than you. I tend to keep null reads almost until LyLo. That's another worrisome thing. You're already separating people off who aren't really doing much into a town or kill category. That's the biggest thing: Your strong opinions on people I find it nigh impossible to have opinions on.In post 3935, The Ascended Masters wrote:So I'm scumreading or nullreading around 2 more people than you are.
Can you explain to me why that's a bad thing? Should I have townreads that I don't have?
What townreads are you uncomfortable with me having?-
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In post 3884, The Ascended Masters wrote:
It's obvious that Nosferatu's wagon is mostly composed of scum? Why? Why did the scum faction pop up and push through a third wagon when you were in the lead when I started pushing Nos and was the only real alternative wagon to me?In post 3848, Skrub wrote:
Probably you. It's pretty obvious that nosterafu's wagon is mostly comprised of scum. The wagon fell out of nowhere and got 9 votes in like 5 minutes. Nobody has even provided a case on him yet. Everyone is just like "he hasn't done much so let's lynch him". I don't know if nos is actually scum and the people on his wagon are from another faction or if he's a mislynch, but I'm just not comfortable with with quickly that all came together. You're a better lynch because you're the only other optionIn post 3841, The Ascended Masters wrote:
Who do you think is a better lynch between me and Nosferatu? Why?In post 3817, Skrub wrote:Hi. Where the heck did this nosterafu wagon come from?
The case on him is not "he hasn't done much, let's lynch him" - the case on him is that he hasn't doneanything, and when he does pop up the only thing he's doing is making half-assed attempts to make it look like he's kind of doing something (example: 2170. why would a townie who didn't give a shit about the game ask this question? if he was interested in it where's the followup where's the purpose? or here. why would he ask one person's reasons for voting a wagon that was already dead? why not ask why people are voting you (lead wagon he happens to be pushing along).
And hell, if you care about the case on him lacking, what are the good elements of the case against me? Who gave the case on me that you liked?-
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I'm not particularly smitten with the idea of you as a wolf quite just yet. My major concern is lack of WIM; my expectations for town!you is that you would be a universal townread, kicking ass, taking names, and you're very decidedly not doing that. It's not enough where I'd be happy shooting you quite yet; I had you as a pocket wolf read earlier but I've softened on that since.In post 3941, mhsmith0 wrote:@nacho: according to your list I'm a likely wolf, but you're perfectly happy to sit on the nos wagon I started. What's your head space here? Bussing? Different wolf teams? V/w?-
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I'll explain them when I get the chance which probably won't be tonight if I want to get to bed on time.In post 3942, DiamondSentinel wrote:I don't like that SirCakez read, but I suppose it's understandable. Definitely don't like that smith scumread and that KTS townread.
Those are the biggest 3 issues.-
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My guess for scum would be somewhere from 7-10 (6, 7 scum if a single team and up to 10 if multiball). I'm assuming it's multiball based on RB + Vifam kills last night.In post 3973, RachMarie wrote:Still waiting on a response from Nacho on my other questions. He is a lot better at math than I am and I am trying to figure out how many scum we are likely to have in this game, it helps me sort out reads. Also if this game is multiball or not, helps me sort things out. And by that I mean two mafia teams instead of one, Nero I know you think an SK is enough to make it multiball instead of a single maf team and a 3rd party.-
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How have I been acting erratic lately? By "erratic", do you mean that I've been active and posting a lot?In post 4015, Skrub wrote:But you've been acting really erratic ever since the nos wagon formed. Like you're ridiculously desperate for it to go through and I don't believe that you believe in it. So basically the tone of your posts just rubs me the wrong way.
Why don't you think that I believe in the Nos wagon?
You're also missing the part of question where you explain why it's "obvious" that there are scum on Nos and who those scum are exactly.-
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Flake out, usually.In post 4005, Nosferatu wrote:what does town who don't give a fuck do?-
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DGB.In post 4020, pisskop wrote:Vax is drixx, rite?
What do you think of Nosferatu's recent posts?-
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SirCakez I'm not really reading as town because he hasn't done shit but tunnel me and every time he does come in and tunnel me he just makes some weak shit well and fucks off again. His reasons for voting me aren't strong and the way that he's pushing me lost all of its conviction; I liked him more earlier when he was complaining about me ignoring pushes but that's gone down steadily.
KTS I don't have anything revolutionary to call him town but his reads are fine and I like his tone a lot. Why are you scumreading him?
Mhsmith0 I'm used to playing with off-site in a faster paced meta, so I've been spoiled by him looking very very town when he's town. His opening was a bit underwhelming in that respect, but I'm giving him room to step up the WIM, just not really townreading him until that moment comes.-
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I saw people vote Nosferatu. Show me why they are obvious scum.In post 4029, Skrub wrote:Go back and look at the posts where people dropped their votes on him and it becomes clear as day.-
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That was a joke.In post 4036, MathBlade wrote:
Can you not be mean about eye issues? I don't care about the substance I just want to be able to read the thread. I am pretty sure you are scum but you don't have to be a dick.In post 4033, SpyreX wrote:@nos can you make it flaming skulls being juggled by a robot-
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"Flailing all over the place" - I've been responding to people's arguments against me, I've been pushing Nos, I've been... occasionally offering commentary outside of that? How is that flailing all over the place?In post 4029, Skrub wrote:You're erratic because you're flailing all over the place and trying way too hard to justify your vote on nosterafu. Yeah you're more active now, but the way you're talking and playing is completely different from how you were on day 1. I know that a wagon is on you now, but that doesn't explain why your posts come across as forced and desperate. I don't know why I feel like you don't believe in the nos wagon. That's just the impression that I'm getting
Yes, I'm completely different from Day 1. There's a wagon on me. Remember when you were completely different when there was a big wagon on you? Or did you forget now that the lynch looks more like me/Nos? If you think that I'm forcing a case on Nos, I'd be happy to see where you think I'm forcing it. Do you have any particular arguments that you thought were weak?-
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Or it's a fast wagon 101.In post 4044, Skrub wrote:
Its not rocket science. One second he had no votes and nobody cared about him. The next second someone said "nos hasn't done anything so lets lynch him!" and then a shit ton of people popped out of the wood work to drop a vote and disappear. Its mislynch 101In post 4037, The Ascended Masters wrote:
I saw people vote Nosferatu. Show me why they are obvious scum.In post 4029, Skrub wrote:Go back and look at the posts where people dropped their votes on him and it becomes clear as day.
Did you know that sometimes townies vote people and wagons grow really quickly? Like the Zanos wagon?
Wagon speed doesn't actually have anything to do with alignment; there are a lot of players in this game in particular who are amendable to fast wagons and so calling a player "town" for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with what they've done this game is typically setting yourself up for failure.-
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"So drastically different"? How am I acting so drastically different? Why does that matter?In post 4050, Skrub wrote:This is the type of thing I'm talking about. You sound like scum trying to deflect things onto other people. I even said in that post that I was aware that having a wagon on you probably influenced your change in behavior. But I don't think that it completely explains why you're acting so drastically different
If I'm acting differently than I was before, then that means... that I'm acting differently than I was before. I share the same alignment that I did yesterday. What point are you trying to make here?-
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http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66021In post 4052, Skrub wrote:That's just not true
Look at the day 1 wagon. It was really fast. It hit scum.
There is nothing that prevents townies from voting a wagon into creation quickly. There is nothing that prevents townies from creating a scum wagon quickly. The "fast wagons are always mislynches" theory is based on scum somehow ramming through town mislynches by voting really really quickly which isn't really something that I've ever seen.-
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You've played, what, 20 games? 30 games?In post 4070, Skrub wrote:
In almost every game I've played there have been wagons that formed and went through quickly. And almost every time its a mislynch.In post 4065, The Ascended Masters wrote:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66021In post 4052, Skrub wrote:That's just not true
Look at the day 1 wagon. It was really fast. It hit scum.
There is nothing that prevents townies from voting a wagon into creation quickly. There is nothing that prevents townies from creating a scum wagon quickly. The "fast wagons are always mislynches" theory is based on scum somehow ramming through town mislynches by voting really really quickly which isn't really something that I've ever seen.
Drop in the bucket.
Nos lynch hasn't gone through quickly, it did almost get halfway to a lynch quickly.
And I don't know if you noticed this, but there's a shit ton of resistance.
Your argument doesn't really apply here.-
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Except no because FA explicitly said that they wouldn't.In post 4084, MathBlade wrote:Explosives if Mafia aligned would because Mafia have guns.
Gunsmiths being tied to kill flavor isn't incredibly unusual.-
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And also this.In post 4086, Cerberus v666 wrote:Second, a mechanical PGO DOES NOT FEAR BEING INVESTIGATED BY A GUNSMITH...because the gunsmith dies when they do so.
I'm not sure why "PGO = gun" is a point of discussion.-
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Once more, with feeling: who cares about interactions? What matters is that the person we are lynching flips scum. The Nos lynch at least makes sense versus the Skrub wagon or the current clown car wagon on me based on... what, exactly?In post 4283, PJ. wrote:But TAM at least is a real lynch. Nos is a shitty lurker lynch. He has basically no interactions to parce. Nothing of note for tomorrow. Everyone on the wagon is scum, self-preservation, bad town, and/or spyrex, who just wants to see the world burn.-
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I posted for the first few days. I lurked for 6 days. I want back to normal posting. The point on Nosferatu is not that he lurked period, the point is that he cares enough about the game to avoid prods and yet hasn't managed to do anything that resembles scumhunting; his pisskop read was weak and weird and his "mole + kraska" questions make no sense from town who ultimately doesn't care about the answer. I haven't been inspired by him showing up and arguing how his play is null; I don't think it looks town at all.In post 4262, PJ. wrote:Except this is the same thing you did, you lurked for a WHILE then you came back and your whole thing was that you were in a lose-lose situation because if you stayed gone you were dodging pressure and if you came back it was lurker scum trying to avoid a lynch. Oh, and your first post in the entire game was "I don't give a fuck about this game imma quick hammer fools". So I'd say it's pot-kettle here at the very least.-
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So you're lynching me for lurking when I've done more than most players in the game. Do you know how nonsensical that is?In post 4288, PJ. wrote:
But they are the same exact reasons that you're lynching nos though.In post 4285, The Ascended Masters wrote:At the end of the day you're gonna look back and go "wow, Nacho was lynched for shitty reasons" but it's not like that's going to help you fix it and find scum, it just means you lynched me for shitty reasons.-
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I did more than you did on Day 1 when I wasn't under pressure. I did more than most players Day 1 when I wasn't under pressure.In post 4290, PJ. wrote:Only underpressure-
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Last time I checked, I was the one made the wagon grow, not Smith. I don't think three questionable people on a wagon mean that I am wagoning town and in general file the "look at wagon composition! you're lynching town!" since it's a biased argument feeding bias and ignores that town don't always lynch scum and scum don't always lynch town.In post 4262, PJ. wrote:Also compare who is on the wagons. Exp, vax, Ari all kinda scummy and the guy who started the wagon is on tam's kill list.-
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Except during that 7 day period from the 8th to the 15th. And except during the 22 - 28th period where I was inactive here. How can you call me scum for strong manning a lynch when you just saw me string man a lynch in Family? How can you say you've never seen me prodded as town before when you *just* saw me gry prodded in Family?In post 4300, SirCakez wrote:Also now that family mafia ended, I can say nacho was nothing like this there (he was town and I also tunneled him there <.<). In that game he was active throughout.-
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Like sweet shit you just got done tunneling me in Family and yet again you're breaking out the "I'm 100% sure that Nacho is scum, this is his scum meta, this is scum meta"? Learn from your mistakes. Having me as a scumread is fine but being so confident where you're tunneling me to the point of ignoring everyone else yet again? Why?-
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My reasons in Nos have nothing to do with the timing of his posting, which is what we were talking about before.In post 4307, PJ. wrote:The logic that he's using to take down nos is the same he's using to excuse his behavior tho. I agree he was legit busy but that besides the point.-
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What questions am I missing from you?In post 4322, RachMarie wrote:@ Nacho I still want an answer to my other questions from you.-
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It's certainly either 2 scum teams or SK-Vicious + large scumteam, don't really know which one I expect is more likely. SK likelihood is typically based on moderator preference and FA seems like the SK type at a glance + Vicious fits as an SK just fine. I don't think there's a strong case for one over the other, though.In post 4333, RachMarie wrote:
The bolded part Nacho.In post 3896, RachMarie wrote:Give me some town reads and some scum reads I am trying to catch up and there are so many genuine lurkers here and some people I have never played with before. I know you are a good scum hunter, far better than I am, especially early on.
Also with this many players how likely do you think it is to be multiball with two maf factions vrs a large scum team? Do you think there is a chance for a SK as well? So far in most of my large games with over 20 players, they have been two maf teams and a SK. Homestuck was the one exception recently they did not have MB or a SK after all. But it had some other really bizarre mechanics.
So far I have a couple scum reads and a few town reads but not enough of either.-
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Sorry to hear that, that sucks a lot. Glad you made a smart move.In post 4339, pisskop wrote:I got mugged reading this game.-
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Why put a bounty out on KTS instead of on me?In post 4368, Nero Cain wrote:I am a JOAT with several powers but no killing role. I do have an invention that I can give and anyone, regardless of alignment, will get it as long as the kill KTS.-
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Somehow I don't think this is going to happen.In post 4418, Nero Cain wrote:There seems to be much more resistance to a KTS lynch than a TAM lynch. If Nos flips townmaybe all the idiotswill stop listening to you and start sheeping me.-
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Why was my reads list shit?In post 4421, Klingoncelt wrote:I don't like any of the wagons.-
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What reads in particular do you disagree with? Which ones do you disagree with?In post 4434, Klingoncelt wrote:
It looks like you just rolled dice or threw names into the Randomizer. I just looked at it, it's still shit.In post 4423, The Ascended Masters wrote:
Why was my reads list shit?In post 4421, Klingoncelt wrote:I don't like any of the wagons.
Saying that my reads are shit because they are shit isn't particularly helpful.-
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What game are you playing here? In Family I tried to push for Elyse day after day after day; I was not amendable to other wagons, I tried to lynch Elyse. When I compromised, I compromised on dram but iade it perfectly clear that Elyse was the only wagon I was really interested.In post 4450, SirCakez wrote:Your activity felt vastly higher in Family
You were open to other lynches in Family aside from elyse, not really strongarming
As far as activity goes, you're wrong. I ended up with ~300 posts at the end of Family, the difference in my activity here and there is negligible.
Here, I started pushing Rach, I ended with Zanos. Iade it clear that I was amendable to other wagons when I told Smith that if he made a strong town case on Zanos then I'd save them.
Your narrative of "oh Nacho never strongmans" is fucking absurd when you just got done playing with me strongarming. Your narrative of "oh Nacho never lurks" is ridiculous when you just got done playing with me lurking and I have absolutely no idea how you are still tunneling me with the same strength and conviction as a game that literally just ended; why aren't you reanalyzing when it turns out that your reasons are wrong?-
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If you tunnel me and are wrong and then immediately start tunneling me again for bullshit reasons, I'm ignoring you. Yes, it's harsh, but if you don't show any capacity to reanalyze or think then my expectation is that responding to you would just be wasting my time.In post 4450, SirCakez wrote:avoiding responding to his wagon when it initially formed,-
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I don't like wagon composition tells, considering they're only useful if scum doesn't bus and your reads are good.In post 4451, Killthestory wrote:nos way too many bad votes on it.-
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How was this scum posting but the previous post wasn't?In post 4484, Expedience wrote:
WellIn post 4483, RachMarie wrote:huh? my point is we should follow procedure and give intent to claim because we have the time to do so. Only time when you can't give that time is if you are so close to deadline you risk a NL?
Are you trying for a derp hammer Ari?nowshe's scumposting.
I would, mhsmith, but there's 2 days until deadline
Aristo, ~reasons~ is pretty lame evidence.-
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That's exactly what it would be.In post 4512, Cerberus v666 wrote:
I meant to respond to this earlier.In post 3931, The Ascended Masters wrote:Cerberus, my approach to you yesterday was less because I was scumreading you and more trying to get you to see that our approaches worked very well together for early game.
So, if you're scum, it was Advanced Buddying, tailored for me?-
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I don't really member Rach calling for an early hammer, but if she did, fair point.In post 4493, Aristophanes wrote:And her "2-3 days left, no need to rush" thing is just awkward as she does indeed proclaim intent with a great amount of time left on a regular basis. Why is she okay with taking it slow and right to deadline here when as town she has no issue pushing for a hammer with lots of time left?-
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Why? The "blah blah information" stuff is an inherently bad argument that doesn't actually make sense, is that what your getting at here?In post 4497, Mirhawk wrote:And wait, we're voting nos?
Seriously? Ugh I hate lurker lynches, he should be shot with a vig, not lynched.
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