STEVEN UNIVERSE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[Beer]

Hello, everybody!

I feel it is my duty (hehe, I said doody) to tell you all this:

WE ARE A BUD LIGHT.

You have been warned!

[Beer]

I'm pretty sure the mod just confirmed mastin is lying.

I disagree!

[Beer]

i thought you can only ally during night?

?

We started off as allies, but things quickly went sour, so I'm not sure we are really allies anymore.

[Beer]

What was said?

He said rude things about my brewery and I told him he could just drink water if he doesn't like me. He said a close friend of his once drowned in water and called me insensitive.

I think this is where the suspicion of me comes from but I'm not entirely sure.

I don't really think he's scum, though. I would never ally myself with a scum player because I am very clearly not scum (wink) and not scum doesn't ally with scum (wink).

Hopefully this post displays my town thought process...

(wink) (wink)

[Beer]

I might be tipsy, but Sonic looks really evil.

Reasonably Rational looks like a puke stain on the wall.

Grapes looks like that guy at a party who's trying too hard to impress and is actually really sleazy and someone who you should probably not befriend because they will do bad things to you after drugging you or something.

Hm.

VOTE: Sonic

[Beer]

Veko could be a good person, but I think maybe we got off on the wrong foot and I shouldn't have called his mother a dirty slag. I am sorry, Veko.

farside seems like a reasonable person who I could probably get along with and perhaps even enjoy a me at the pub with her.

mastin seems sweet.

[Beer]

No, really, Sonic is probably scum. No jokes.

[Beer]

Sure, I can break down exactly why you're probably scum.

First, your entrance into this game involves asking a pointless question that was never going to go anywhere. The answer was obvious. The fact that you insisted on repeating the question as though it was somehow worth addressing just makes me think you're trying to look like you're being inquisitive when you're not really.

Second, the way your claim went down feels like scum who isn't really sure how to phrase it properly. In particular, the last part of it...

If you're not townreading me, then fine.

... reads a bit like over-compensating and I feel if you were actually town, you would have just left this part out.

And third, your reaction to #45 was just all sorts of bad, both in terms of the underlying tone and the underlying sentiment.

I don't much like #51, either. I thought the p-edit (which appears to be in response to #50) felt incredibly weak, like scum struggling to come up with something relevant to say. I think your reaction to me both here and in #53 isn't particularly telling, but it doesn't make me feel good about you at all and feels a lot like scum bravado than town who is genuinely coming to the conclusion that I must be scum (really, the "can only think of scum doing that" line in particular is just awkward).

tl;dr I haven't liked anything you guys have written so far.

- Gordovan Kensington III

[Beer]

To expand a little on that last part, the "can only think of scum doing that" part seems to be an extension of the "light attacks = bad" thing but it's 2 pages into the game...

What are you expecting, a long post detailing why I don't like everything you've written so far?

Be reasonable.

[Beer]

I wanna hear what Beer has to say about this. Claiming scum to to his neighbour just seems ridiculously stupid

Ah, the game started out with vezok using reverse psychologoly on me by saying he hoped that I was town and, perhaps in part because he's such a charming fellow, perhaps in part because it was such a deviously cunning statement, or perhaps in part because I obviously felt guilty about receiving an evil-dude PM, I accidentally said I'm not... But PTs don't allow you to edit posts or something, which I find quite discriminatory but that's another issue altogether, so I had to correct that in the next post by saying that I actually meant I am town. And then I said whoops. I then mentioned that one of the many upsides of being in a fusion instead of an alliance would be performing the fusion dance. I stand by this statement, and it is less of an opinion and more of a fact.

Veko, being the master sleuth that he is, cleverly deduced that there was scum in the alliance from this and from there the jig was up. At first, I tried to play it off, pretending that it might be Varsoon. But no, Veko saw through my ruse and realised Varsoon was not scum (though this kind of reeks of inside information so perhaps requires a second look). I pleaded with him not tell everyone my deepest, darkest secrets, but alas, it was to no avail. I mentioned that perhaps if I used a lot of words and tried confusing tactics like writing content, people might believe I'm town, but he said that no one would buy that sort of thing as something town would do because you're all strong players.

And so here we are.

- Gordovan Kensington III

[Beer]

Sonic, unless I missed one of the claims besides the voteless, double voter, and miller, I'm not surprised at what has been outed already.

Ah, you've touched upon one of the reasons Sonic's posting is insincere. Kudos to you, good sir.

I really do think I was making good points in post #55 and post #56, even if it was rather early in the game and there was nothing super-strong to go on. I am disappointed it was mostly overlooked. Oh well, such is life, I suppose.

#45 is bad because it drips more fake shit than vodka made of silicone water.

So?

There is also the fact that he posted there first and didn't post in thread. That's just fucking scummy without all the added shit in the thread.

I required advice on how to word our first post from a

buddy

hydra partner of mine. I felt it was vaguely important that I worded it properly for maximum hilarity. Maybe someone will get a chuckle out of it. Maybe Varsoon got a chuckle out of it.

[Beer]

Did you get a chuckle out of it, Varsoon? If so, mission accomplished.

<3

[Beer]

And then some fluff about the flavor.

I am not quite sure what this is referring to since it didn't happen. I have not once discussed flavour. But on that topic, I am an acquired taste.

I know, I know. But if Beer is lying about being Lars, then vezok is also lying about being Sadie. Sadie starting in a neighbourhood with literally anyone else makes no sense. So either they're both lying about their role names, or neither of them are.

Theoretically if I were scum, this would not be the first game that someone was told they're in a neighborhood with someone when their flavor is actually not that. Many a mod has gotten in trouble with their player list for trying to be tricksy like this. Besides which, without knowing who or what the scum team consists of, I could just be Lars and scum. Who knows? The point being, this is dangerous territory to tread, so I would refrain from making guesses like this in the future.

Hmm... we have two people here claiming to be stumps and only one person isn't counted. A liar in our midst?

Hm. I don't much like the phrasing of this post.

Puke stain on the wall? Please, enlighten me.

Well, your fetish is a little out of the ordinary even for me (I'm not one to deliberately shine light on puke stains), but I will indulge you this once.

I was clearly referring to your one and only post at the time and the fact that it was not particularly awe-inspiring. You quoted a lot of things (that didn't actually need to be quoted) to say very little, and what was said was (I felt) rather mediocre and not particulary insightful in any way.

[Beer]

But I can't emphasize enough how much my vote should be on Beer right now. (After all, they're too filled with wine to be town!)

This is a blatant lie. We are definitely not wine. I'll sue you for slander if you make an accusation like this again.

Though I suppose you could argue about whether a Bud Light really counts as a beer, or actually anything better than animal urine, and I would have a hard time arguing back, but we are most certainly not wine.

Beer's obvscum

Maxwell's also pretty scum, btw.

Ah.

Is it too late to perhaps sign up for the Mastin Academy? Because you are clearly god's gift to mafia and it would be a shame if I could not learn from someone so keenly insightful as yourself.

You clearly have a good grasp of what's going on in this game, and I can only hope people will not sheep someone as brilliant as you.

[Beer]

This is a flavor I will worry about. Bud light...really?

I am no more pleased about it than you seem to be.

Who actually

likes

Bud Light? It tastes like if feral animal peed in a bucket that you then proceeded to leave out under the desert sun for two weeks before consuming.

Beer, who's in your hydra?

Pawtucket, Gordovan Kensington III and Beer1.

As far as I am aware, only Gordovan Kensington, third of his name, has posted so far.

- Gordovan Kensington III

[Beer]

Ah, I suppose if I want to look town, I should give a reads list or something.

Upon reflection, I am actually of the opinion that radmann's first post wasn't as bad as I initially thought it was and I have liked his more recent posts a bit more. For example, I felt the second sentence in Post #156 read genuine. I feel the jester speculation probably isn't coming from a scum mindset and I feel the way he's approaching reads in this game, particularly the mastin read, looks like it's coming from a town mindset more than a scum one.

I believe Maxwell to be an upstanding citizen but I have no one particular post I can point to to describe why. I quite like a lot of the things he's saying with regards to how he's thinking about the setup and I also quite like the way he's approaching his reads and the game in general.

I believe Veko is probably town. I am not just saying this because I believe that if I call him town, he might soften up and not want to lynch me as much. Nope. Totally not the reason I'm saying this at all.

I am OK with ReasonablyRational so far and perhaps they are more town than I originally thought (and am willing to concede that my initial issue with that slot was perhaps more a playstyle thing than an alignment thing).

I feel mastin is town, and perhaps even worthy of being nominated for the Paragon of Mafia Hunters for just how brilliant a player she seems to be. I would totally kill her if I was scum because she is very good at this game.

I think farside is probably town and I also think Ricastle is probably town. I don't have much more to say about this. They just seem town.

Marquis is not giving me warm fuzzy feelings. Neither is Trench Warfare for that matter.

I don't really remember anything particular alignment-indicative from anyone else so far.

Cheetory is posting a lot but there's not a whole lot of actual substance in his posts. He should probably fix that if he's town.

[Beer]

Is it too late to perhaps sign up for the Mastin Academy? Because you are clearly god's gift to mafia and it would be a shame if I could not learn from someone so keenly insightful as yourself.

You clearly have a good grasp of what's going on in this game, and I can only hope people will not sheep someone as brilliant as you.

Oi. You are in no fucking position to say this to mastina. Even I am offended.

You owe her 1 apology.

I am sorry for calling you a good player, mastin. I will refrain from doing so in the future.

Also, please forgive me, Sonic. I will also refrain from calling you a good player lest I offend you again.

My sincerest apologies.

[Beer]

Oh, right. I almost forgot about Sonic.

I still feel there is a very, very good chance he is scum and none of his recent posts have dissuaded me from this opinion.

Post #197 is about the

closest

thing to a town post in his ISO, and even that looks like something I myself would write as scum (the line about Maxwell in particular). So nope, he's done nothing that looks even remotely town so far. I am surprised no one else is actually reading his posts, or if they are, they're ignoring what seems rather obvious. It seems rather odd that the only one who seems to have eyes is a mug of beer.

[Beer]

I don't joke. Mafia isn't fun and games.

[Beer]

I was referring to you talking about the fusion dance. That is clearly fluff and related to flavor.

Ah, yes, I forgot the Dragon Ball universe was closely related to this one. I can see why you would assume it was flavor.

Ftr, I also think Sonic is scum.

Would you consider helping me

bus

distance

lynch him?

Beer didn't exactly quantify whether they literally scumclaimed in the first post in his neighbourhood.

I mentioned everything that was said, so if you're having trouble understanding anything, that would be an issue on your end of things, I think.

[Beer]

Ah, the game started out with vezok using reverse psychologoly on me by saying he hoped that I was town and, perhaps in part because he's such a charming fellow, perhaps in part because it was such a deviously cunning statement, or perhaps in part because I obviously felt guilty about receiving an evil-dude PM, I accidentally said I'm not...

[Beer]

Unintentionally, then? I can use synonyms if you'd prefer.

[Beer]

Oh.

Bummer.

Well, I suppose that means I'll have to make the most of my time in this transient existence.

Would you be interested in a game of hangman?

[Beer]

This is a game of hangman!

Well, you're cheating then, because I don't know how many letters there are.

E?

[Beer]

Summarising it as OMGUS both fails to recognise what OMGUS actually means, fails to recognise the actual points I'm making and is also a terrible point because theoretically anyone I scum-read could be considered "OMGUS" if the simple definition you're using is "anyone who is scum reading you" - one of the perils of virtually the entire player list being fine with your lynch, I suppose!

[Beer]

a childish imp

Admittedly, one of the nicer things I've been called in my life.

[Beer]

Pawtucket here!

First off, I apologize for my other head's play thus far. I'm still getting used to adjusting to the way they play the game because they make every time I open the game a headache and a half (my motivation to even post seems sapped away!), but I just want everyone to know mostly for post-game reasons that this opening was all them and not approved by us at all. I honestly don't know what to say beyond that. It's not like I can say something that is better than all of the terrible things he's put out into the thread so far, so I'm catching up and I'm trying my best and I hope that if people will at least appreciate my words in particular after we flip.

Spoiler: Catch-up Commentary

That's the only way I can see it feasibly working.

Also, I'm pretty sure the mod just confirmed mastin is lying. VOTE: mastin2

Do you think that mastin-scum would lie about something that could be proven false by the first page? It seems like a bit of a ridiculous idea to me.

Guys. Beer is scum. He's my ally and his entry there is fucking horrible.

I think that vezok's push on us feels fairly genuine, all things considered. While I'd imagine that vezok would attack us with wild abandon regardless of his alignment because it's the optimal move either way thanks to the dumb actions by my partner, there was a particular comment in the neighborhood where he expressed how amazed he was that we weren't lynched yet that I think would be unlikely for him to make if he was scum. I think that if he were scum pushing us, all of his faking efforts and reactions would go towards lynching us in the thread (so other people could see him react to us and so we were less likely to survive): faking efforts in the thread as well is either genuine or going the extra mile, and I lean pretty strongly towards genuine at this point.

Cerb, can you ask Drixx if we can ally? I think it would help the four of us read each other better tonight and get grips on things.

Do any of the heads have history with one another?
If not, I'm not really sure where this request comes from.

The fact that it's Lars and Sadie is what leads me to believe they are both in a neighbourhood together. Either one is lying or both are lying about their role names. I highly doubt it's the latter, because if one dies and turns out to not be Lars or Sadie, then you know the other one is lying. There's no way a Lars or a Sadie would start off in a neighbourhood without the other. So I'm inclined to believe them. So, if they are telling the truth, then it follows that Sadie is town. Lars is more unclear, and I concede that they could be scum. Personally, I don't think so, but I'm not going to let that stop me from looking at the situation properly. And right now, the situation is that vezok is claiming one thing, we haven't heard the other side of the story from Beer yet, and we already know that those two do not get along. So simply voting Beer would be really ignorant in my opinion.

This overly complicated thought process about our neighborhood dynamics and conclusion of not voting us followed by vezok reiterating we claimed scum and Maxwell going "oh, ok, I'll vote them" seems fairly town to me. If scum, it's a good deal of showing his work to jump on a really really easy wagon he doesn't need to put half as much effort in pushing as he has here.

On a side note, maxwell is really town,

This seems like a strange read.

Neighborhood PSA try to align with people you respect but cannot get along with well for some reason.

Why?

Man, I would have believed Beer if he had just said "It was a joke."

This is what he'd say if he was a normal human being or a considerate hydra partner. Unfortunately, he is neither of those things.

I'm pretty uncomfortable with Sonic X's hostility towards us. I don't have a particularly strong read on the slot.

Ultimately, I didn't really feel I got a crazy amount of information about alignment from my readthrough.

I feel like vezokpiraraka and Maxwell are both probably town for the way they approached their respective suspicions on us.
I think mastin is probably town because claim and behaviour around her claim.
I feel like farside's first couple of catchup spurts were very disappointing and lifeless but later she picked up a good amount, leaving me conflicted on her.

Vote: Ra9in9 Bull

is probably where I'm starting at the moment.

161 is pretty bad. It's just mostly stating facts and pointless reads trying to seem analytic.

I don't really like the attack here, it feels like you're just picking out an easy target to attack and going for it because his first post didn't really seem like anything like that to me at all, it just seems like a reads list early game when nothing really happened. If he's providing information instead of analyzing the world around him, what information did he provide? Why were his reads pointless?

Sincerely,
Pawtucket

[Beer]

Radmann, no offense, but if I were looking for an ally, you are the very last person I would choose in this player list.

[Beer]

It wasn't written to be mean. Just a statement of fact. Choosing a virtually unknown, extremely new player who's not exactly the towniest of town isn't exactly optimal play for hypothetical scum-me looking for someone to help me out

[Beer]

Oh man, I completely missed Pawtucket's post right before mine. I actually forgot Beer was a hydra. Pawtucket, do you regret your choice of hydra partner? He's entertaining at least.

Regret is such a strong, nasty word, but yes, I absolutely regret my choice of hydra partner.

hello pawty on a scale from 5 to 10 how amished are u

Is it an Amished tell when we were playing the game from a start?

Don't beat yourself up too hard Max, Cooldog is probably scum.

I'm not sure about that. CooLDoG has a very distinct, snarky tone that I tend to associate with town more often than scum.

Anyway, the sonic wagon looks like a counter-wagon to beer.

Why are Sonic's two votes considered a counterwagon to us while Radmann's two votes are not considered a counterwagon? Also, don't you think it's a bit early and presumptuous to be making statements like this?

Then I may remind you all how Marquis tends to play with these floaty play-styles when he's scum. As town he's more down-to-earth and serious.

Do you have evidence to back up this statement in particular?

I notice there is some support for Ra9in9 Bull wagon floating around. Could we get some of that nebulous support translated into votes?

Sincerely,
Pawtucket

[Beer]

was the answer obvious? i have 0 flavor knowledge. nobody answered my question. please elucidate on this point.

........................................................

In what way was your question helpful? Obviously we are in alliance so obviously the answer was obvious.

Not only that, but the main point I was making was that the question you were asking was going nowhere. Asking it would not help you get a better grasp of the situation. Yet you repeated it like there was some merit to the question and it required an answer for some reason. No. No, it didn't, and this is contributory to the overall picture with your play so far; an insincere approach to scum hunting.

So your argument is my English redundancy is a scumtell. please go ahead and explain why.

I would hesitate to ever use the term "scum tell", but the way you were phrasing that post (and, in my opinion, most of your other posts) is indicative of a scum mindset. It shows you're overly conscious of how people are reading you and reading into the things you're saying, but not in a good way.

The bolded paragraph would have made sense without that part. That part was unnecessary. In my opinion, so was the "if you are townreading me" part as well (which I also think is a little telling and if you ever claim something that doesn't explain this, then I feel my point about this is even stronger).

I think the reason you phrased it the way you did is because you wanted to come across as a town player who was being reasonable, but the way you wrote it just suggests to me that you weren't thinking like you would have as town.

But an overwhelming number of other players also hated #45. a lot. why don't you explain what is "bad" about Z's "underlying tone" and "underlying sentiment" so that he can learn from this?

If by an "overwhelming number" you mean Ricastle and Titus, then you and I seem to have very different ideas about what an overwhelming number looks like. Unlike Ricastle, who is a relative newbie, and Titus, who is a rather... 'unique' player, you guys don't get the same leniency when it comes to reading #45.

The reason I consider your response (and I am grouping you with your hydra partner for ease of referring to you) less than satisfactory is that it shows you are not thinking about things in any sort of objective way - For example, what scum motivation did you actually see in #45? Also, the "lmao" on the end is primarily what I mean when I'm referring to tone. It was out of place. Either he recognised it was a joke post and was laughing at it (in which case, the entire preceding sentiment doesn't fit) or he didn't and was laughing because he thought it was incredibly scummy or something (in which case, my point about how you're post in a way that isn't indicative of a town mindset is strengthened).

can you explain what makes it look like a town post? can you explain how you could write it as scum? your point is that #197 "is potentially fake-able", point accepted, but calling out "i don't really like their posts so far" is so subjective i'm laughing.

No, I was saying it

doesn'

look like a town post. The point I was (very clearly) making was that it was the

closest

thing to a town post you've written (i.e. not actually a town post). And the reason it was the closest thing to a town post is because it's arguably the first attempt you'd made at scum hunting (or at least considering the game).

But even then, the things you did there were not, by any stretch of the imagination, hard to write as either alignment. And, in fact, I think the read you gave on Maxwell felt really insincere - like someone specifically going against the tides but in a way that felt way too confident for what it should have been at that point in time. I notice that Pawtucket seems to have had issues with that very same line, but I'm not sure if it is for the same reasons as me.

The way both you and your partner are approaching this game seems overly aggressive in a way that doesn't make a lot of sense to me, and the things you're saying are not things I would expect you (or really, any player) to write as town. The way you're responding to me, for example, looks incredibly hollow. This "refutation" of my points isn't even a refutation and most of it fails to even comprehend what I was saying. Not only that, but you keep insisting that I'm obviously scum but you can't seem to make points that explain why you think this. In fact, you end this very post off with trying to suggest that my points are incredibly weak, but... what exactly have your points against me been? This example of hypocrisy is only a minor issue I have with you, when considering your overall approach to the game, which seems to be just throwing dirt at me, throwing out reads that don't look sincere to me in any way and playing with an aggressive nature that is unbefitting for what's actually taking place in this game. Everything you write looks fake.

[Beer]

It should be noted that Pawtucket is less convinced about you than I am, and feels applying pressure to Raging Bull is a good idea.

I'm not opposed to the idea of applying pressure to Raging Bull since ika's approach to this game so far (i.e. a complete lack of presence) is something I would expect from ika as scum, and nothing they've written so far has wowed me in any way.

[Beer]

Oh, and I may have made the point somewhere in that post, but I think one distinct difference between your town and your scum game is how you respond to and handle pressure, and that is contributing to why I believe the way you're approaching your read on me doesn't look town. I care not to talk more about this at this point in time, though. It will become incredibly obvious as the day goes on if I'm right.

[Beer]

he's open-minded in the beer-vezok thing in a manner that wants to understand both sides of the argument before placing judgment

That was the general opinion of almost every player that had posted about it (except for obviously the ones voting me). It was not unique to Cheetory.

For example, who do you think fits the mold of players you think were approaching it in the way you suggested scum would? Because I haven't seen you talk about that at all.

what the hell is this doing in the thread?

I cannot see both of you as town. I think it's very likely one of you is town and one is scum (although I wouldn't discount both scum), so I'd like to PoE you.

not this shit again

70% of the time someone interferes with a conversation and says "one is scum and one is town" without saying who is which, that person is actually scum and the two people are town

you should probably stop with that

What was the point of this post?

It looks like you're softly suggesting that you think Ricastle is scum attacking two town players (with some made-up statistic) but that conflicts with your view that I'm "obvscum".

So what were you even trying to achieve here?

[Beer]

But I think Verzok is misrepping Beer in order to get him lynched. Scum read on Verzok.

I doubt this is the case.

Both Pawtucket and I are of the opinion that it's more likely Veko is town. I don't really think he's been "misrepresenting" anything I'm saying so much as "misinterpreting" things. It's also true that I haven't exactly been going out of my way to make it easy for him!

Pawtucket, do you regret your choice of hydra partner?

No, I don't. Gordovan Kensington III is the most charming, handsome, amazingly awesome, witty, spectacular human being I have ever interacted with.

- Totally Pawtucket

There's a lot more information to be drawn out of a beer lynch

Like what?

now I'll explain my marquis and radman scum reads. Beer's is self-explanitory.

Even if you believe it is self-explanatory, I would like you to explain it to me like I'm five years old.

Why do you think I'm scum? Or rather, what scum motivation do you see in my play? What scum agenda do you think I've been pushing here?

Tunnel, you wondered why I changed my opinion/vote? This. While I appreciate Beer trying to clear my name after sullying it, this whole post reads trying to find an ally when there's no reason to. Literally the line that he felt was 'genuine' was 'Or pick my brain.' How does that reveal anything?

I'm a player whose primary method of scum hunting is reading heavily into what (I think is) the underlying motivation behind the things someone writes (in case that wasn't already obvious from the things I'm saying about Sonic, for example).

So when, for example, I say that I think that line as genuine, I'm talking about what was going on in the game at the time, how it was phrased and what I think it tells me about how you're approaching the game. To me, it looked like you were struggling to get a foothold in the game (or rather, struggling to figure out what specifically to write with regards to your thoughts) and you were looking for an avenue to express your thoughts (via someone questioning you about something or somethings). The reason I thought this was genuine is that it implies you're ready and willing to have a quick, unguarded conversation about the game with someone and, while I wouldn't necessarily say the same thing for someone with a lot more experience than you seem to have, this is something I think is more likely to come from town than scum. I also think if you were scum, you would have just written a lot of fake "thoughts" on the game without asking for someone to pick your brain about something.

I still think you're town, by the way. This response to my read on you just reinforces my thought processes about you. I don't really understand the suspicion towards you in this game, other than people have an issue with you that looks to me more like a playstyle thing than anything legitimate.

[Beer]

Thinking about that from the perspective of town and scum motivation is a silly thing to do.

Conversely, what's the scum motivation for egging on someone who thinks I'm scum?

[Beer]

Beer, how would you describe your scum hunting style then? If you think looking at town or scum motivation is silly, what do you look for in determining who is town and who is scum?

No, I think suggesting

everything

must have town

or

scum motivation is silly.

[Beer]

When we're not playing the game, or when we're not having fun, that's when things become an issue.
Before posting, please consider the questions; "How does this relate to the game?" and "Will this post ruin the fun?"

Guys, I don't find it fun when people vote me so please heed the moderator's warning or I will request he mod-kill you.

Enforcing this <3
On the real, though; don't intentionally try to ruin another player's experience.
Voting for people, making cases, attacking play, playing in a silly way, general fluffposting, etc. are all pretty much fine.
So long as it's game-oriented, it's okay. However, when something detracts from the game, that's when it becomes an issue.

[Beer]

Yeah, and I remember from the last game how well you can read me. Like, not at all.

This tone is reading a bit town to me. Skybird doesn't seem like a player to fake the "indignant town" tone very well.

Pawtucket, why did Sonic's read seem strange to you?

Sonic's read seemed strange to me because it seemed far too confident at the time based on what Maxwell put in the thread. This didn't really affect me too much since my own read of Maxwell would also take an even stronger town direction later, but it still made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up a bit.

As for Beer, my thoughts are similar, though I'm not sure waiting for anything more from Gordovan's side is going to yield anything.

I think that counting Gordovan out because they are a troll is a mistake. Yes, it is some effort sifting through the serious and the joking and that effort is occasionally absolutely annoying, but there are plenty of gems to find in his posts.

Mmm,
A beer flip would give us a lot of associatives even if he flips town.

Associatives are interactions between mafiosos that are hints to them being similarly aligned. There are no associatives if you lynch a townie. The information gained from lynching a townie is removing them from a suspect pool and nothing else until power roles come into play. People who lynch town for "information" are playing a fool's game.

That suggests to me a deeper motivation that it would be anti town to comment on.

It suggests to me that he has a role that benefits from being targeted.
The optimal way to play a role like that is by being open about it.

If radmann is always weird in his posting style in general, it makes him seem less scummy for it here, no?

What weird things are you picking up on? If you're talking about the way he words things or what he's specifically choosing to focus on, it's likely you're picking up on personality tells over alignment indicative ones.

Gordovan, or any Beer: What's your opinion on Sonic's fake daykill? Sorry if you commented on it and I missed it.

I don't care. It's a fake daykill.
Should I?

As for the Beer head situation, I only commented on it in past tense because well... the posts were before mine. It very well could still be going on since neither are signing their posts. Thus it's still suspicious activity. If calm head were trying to keep their distance from the more outlandish head why would he not start signing his posts? It's at least a good cover if nothing else.

I've signed all posts that I've put in thread thus far and will continue to sign them into the future. I do this so that it is obvious Gordovan and I are different people. I don't do it to distance from him.

Whoever said that you should probably focus on getting towny people in there, instead of people you're unsure about, was right. I don't remember who.

Unless you're confident in your ability to sort once they're in a smaller group?

This seems like an optimal move by far, considering the whole power boost thing. Alliances and Fusions aren't straight neighborizers.

Raging Bull's drunk rant seems mostly non-alignment indicative minus the BP claim, which I'm inclined to view as town. Ika seemed in a very... honest? Mood at that point in time, I don't think he'd slip in a scum fakeclaim in the middle of it.

The only thing I got out of a Beer ISOdive was that I dislike the way that Pawtucket threw Gordington under the bus for his play early on, but I'm not sure if I just think it's bullshit to treat a hydra partner like that in the open like that or if it feels like a scum gambit to try and ease the suspicion on their slot by being like "oh man look the good head is here to be not scummy now".

I don't think I threw Gordovan under the bus so much as expressed my annoyance with him making a move that pulled plenty of justified votes to us without discussing it beforehand. I don't think I've been treating him in a bullshit way. I think it would have been awkward for me to come in the game and post in the game as a separate person without discussing Gordovan's opening (or am I supposed to lie about my feelings about it because he's a hydra partner?).

- and i'm aware this might not make sense to some but the lack of hydra partner respect/general ego thing makes me think it's a newer player (in the vein of vonflare/elusive/etc. with limited... skills in that social regard), who also likely wasn't aware of the amished tell being a thing, and thus would not be likely to hesitate with those comments as scum

This is mostly just offensive and frustrating, don't really know how to respond to this. Do you really think my posting style is that awkward? Can you not see why I might be a little frustrated with my hydra partner doing what they did at the beginning of the game, especially in a game with an alliance mechanic? Do you really think my position is that ridiculous?

amished tell is that players being apologists for the player they replaced/criticizing predecessor's play as scummy are more likely to be scum. this is predicated on many things including scum knowledge of own alignment, unnecessary complaining about situation that's scum-motivated, etc as well as a decently long history of it being used successfully

The original Amished tell was based on it being scummy to focus on your predecessor's posts before anyone else's while posting since reading predecessor is basically useless for town, but ISOing predecessor can help give you an idea of what kind of position you're replacing into as scum. It then warped dramatically over the years as it became overused and people didn't want to acknowledge that it wasn't perfectly accurate, which it isn't. It's additionally ridiculous you're trying to argue that a hydra is "close enough" to a replacement. I don't expect my predecessors to behave any certain way because I'm replacing them, don't care at all about them. I do expect my hydra partners to behave a certain way because hydra

partners

.

[Beer]

^

Sincerely,
Pawtucket

Apologies for the long absence and forgetting to sign, that just got under my skin more than it should have. I'll try to formulate a reads list soon.

[Beer]

VOTE: Sonic X

I also don't really have too much confidence in my Raging Bull read anymore. I'll support Gordovan for now.

Sincerely,
Pawtucket

[Beer]

Prod dodging. Pawtucket and I have been absolutely swamped so currently looking into recruiting our third head into sharing the load. Hopefully we can trick one person into getting caught up by Thursday!

[Beer]

I am here and working on a catchup now. I am informed that vezok is Sadie.

[Beer]

people have just assumed that Vezo is town bc he is a double voter ... I think that this is a dangerous assumption.

The strong case for Vezok being town is laying attention to how he pushed the lynch on us. I also think that him claiming that we are hated is a very strong towntell for him; we originally claimed it in the neighborhood and crumbed it in thread to see what he would do with it, and claiming it for us when we are about to get lynched is an extremely strong town tell considering he could have very easily gotten away with pushing us to L-1 and then claiming that he didn't know.

And there goes any cool fake-hammer reaction tests I could have maybe pulled off. Real pro-town play dudes.

The frustration here seems pretty real and town, as does the plan to use the double vote for a fakehammer gambit. I don't think grapes as scum would be too bothered by forcing to out his role in its entirety.

Fuzzy's logic seems pretty crazy in general but the way he pushes his logic seems very genuine; not really seeing where the scumreads there are coming from.

[Beer]

Fro99er is posting a lot elsewhere and not here. That isn't normal.

Christ, I have too many people I want to vote...

Ika is playing pretty much exactly to his scum meta. I feel bad voting the slot based on Ika lurking and Ika lurking alone, but the vote seems to easy and obvious to me that it basically just has to be made.

meta wise this is completely unlike fuzzy's towngame. there at least i've seen him providing more thoughts on things - not just prompted, but seemingly out of place comments and hard pushes as well.

Could you link to the games you've been referring to specifically? He seems to have the same rambly nature he always does.

[Beer]

I want to vote Mastin bc she is Mastin ( and she played me several times before) but I think I wait. Not sure why scum would claim stump.Not sure that would help the scum team,,,than again its Mastin so I am not taking anything she says as truth without sound reason.

This seems genuine because it's a lot of thinking about an RVS vote and something that isn't really anything more than an RVS vote; Fuzzy seems the type of player who is pretty foot in mouth and rambly as town and very quiet as scum and this seems like a decent example of the former.

yeah ...hate to say it but Ika prob should be mod killed and Fro continue on ....... I not sure Ika is stable enough to continue. Seem like a complete melt down

The entire push for RG to get punished for freaking out seems like something that's unlikely to come from scum; it's ballsy to call for a town modkill or yellow card or whatever and it's even ballsier to ask for the same thing on your partner.

I get the concern about my questions. I had the brilliant idea that maybe I could compare their ability limits to mine and see if they were lying about their roles. Obvious this was not thought out too well. It did sound good in my head, than again a lot oof things sound good in my head but when I say them I realize how utterly stupid they are. I guess this idea could work in theory but as I said the pratical aspect falls flat

I find the assertions the fuzzy was pushing for the doublevoters to out the entirety of their roles for some signficiant tactical reason because he doesn't seem like that type of player and because the information is so useless it doesn't really seem worth the effort to get. Him thinking he can confirm their alignment based on the mechanics of his own role makes a lot more sense.

plus ithink we need to hear from RI before lynching.
Yeah good game everyone.... hopez my flip will help find scum

The resignation and self-sacrifice for the good of the town also seems town here.

There are also smaller things, like his "farside is still reading me wrong but I can't help but read her as town" and his obsession with calling RR town and the way he handles our wagon at the end of the day "I think they are scummy but the way vezok has pushed them seems off" all comes together in a very genuine way. I don't think scum approaches the game the way fuzzy has.

[Beer]

Let's avoid lynching the asshole (Raging), the guy who apparently was bragging about how scummy he was (Beer), Fulminator (the navel gazer who can only say "gee I understand why you're wagoned").

~Titus

This isn't actually what happened. We claimed scum in the neighborhood, it was a joke.

[Beer]

Vote: Raging Bull

This seems like a fairly straightforward vote and the likeliest to hit scum at the moment. Ika has a very distinct meta: as town, he does something. As scum, he does nothing but lurk. All he is doing here is lurking.

[Beer]

GOOD LYNCHES:

Cheetory:
I hear great things about Cheetory as a player, but his play this game lacks a certain pizzaz, or any real interest in solving the game whatsoever. The thing that bothers me most about him are his pushes because they are utter pieces of shit and the way he approaches our wagon is the way scum approach a mislynch when they're trying not to get their hands dirty. If you need specifics on this, check out his Sonic X push in 258, where he votes them for town reading him. He doesn't have a whole lot of interaction with them beforehand and he doesn't have a whole lot of interaction with them afterwards 400 posts later in 678, which is not how normal people treat suspects, and his pushes on Fuzzy and NicCage aren't really any better or natural (both of them also have throwaway lines as explanations).

The way he's treating our slot is that "there's so much mist around our slot" to the point where he apparently can't read us, which is quite frankly a fat steaming pile of bullshit. Gordovan joked and posted content. Pawtucket ripped on Gordovan and posted content. There is still readable stuff from both players, and getting out of a read on our slot because of controversy is so ridiculous that it practically has to be a cop out.

Ra9in9 Bull:
I love this vote because it's so lovely and so easy. When ika posts, he's town. When ika doesn't post, he's scum. Ika isn't posting. He is probably scum!
Now there is this nasty caveat that the slot might be scum thanks to the bulletproof claim that was crumbed at the beginning of the game but it's not a shining light of overwhelming towniness that makes me feel bad about voting the slot or anything like that.

BAD LYNCHES:

MaxwellPuckett:
Seems genuine as hell. Maybe it's just easy to love someone who seems to understand every head and their complicated intricacies? In any case, I think the sheer thought process he's dedicated to our slot alone (useless, lynchbait for scum) seems town as shit and him telling off Marquis in post 658 is awesome in a genuine, town kind of way. I also like how he's not jumping on the fuzzy wagon that is also bad; I don't really agree with the radmann vote but it's the least of three evils.

Sonic X:
Town I guess?
I mean, nothing he wrote blew me away but nothing he wrote made me want to gauge my eyeballs out or anything, which is an improvement from other ISOs. His claim stuff is town(ish), don't like people using it as the only way to read him but I suppose I'm doing the same thing right now, whoops. I guess if I really wanted to pull something out of my ass 922 and bins posts are buddying to an extent that is too obvious for any scum player to actually try but I don't actually believe in that reasoning all that much. Just don't really think he should be lynched.

TunnelWarriors:
Town, for wgeurts claim shit. Like he

could

get off his ass and actually do something, but doubtful and don't think he's all that scummy for laziness.

Vezokpiraka:
Town. I think plenty of people explained why, not wasting breath here.

Trench Warfare:
Surprisingly calm. Not saying things that make me want to burn abandoned buildings down. A breath of fresh air. I don't know who they suspect and who they're voting (I think TSO is voting vezok? oh well) but their posts somehow help me cling to sanity so I can forgive a suspicion that I disagree with.

CooLDoG:
CD is a cranky old man who just sort of sits in the corner and yells at everyone for mostly unintelligible reasons. I like it! I'm assuming he's town as a result.

grapes:
Grapes is fine. Also a piece of sanity in a mad world, and I sort of talked about why I liked the reaction to RR's ridiculous request.

Radmann9/Replace In:
The way that Radmann perceives himself in game in places like his reaction to CD's "rolefishing" seemed town, especially the part where he accused him and Raging of singling out an inexperienced player. The other thing that he did was cool was the part where he said he still suspected us even though we tried to clear his name after smudging it, that kind of grudge for misrepresenting someone is only held that long if they truly believe they were misrepresented. Don't remember Replace In's posting, probably not gonna bother reading it.

[Beer]

There's 1 day left, we need a claim

We're a hated townie.
Vezok already claimed this for us.
The Bud Light in bold thing we made at the very beginning of the game was a crumb.

Which head of the beer was that? It didn't seem like either of the other two heads.

Hey Beer, what's your thought on your wagon? You didn't even seem to notice you're the most likely lynch today?

My wagon is based on a joke and also on one hydra head insulting the other and I have a feeling that it's probably going to land on town.
It's a wagon that's absolutely shit, but that much is obvious by now.

I did notice I'm the most likely lynch, hence pushing to catchup so this slot has something to say before we're dead. I don't really know what you expect me to say in response to the wagon.

[Beer]

GOOD LYNCHES:

NicCage:

Gordovan, or any Beer: What's your opinion on Sonic's fake daykill? Sorry if you commented on it and I missed it.

This is an actual question that was asked in order to determine our alignment. The reason he's voting our slot is because "he's drunk and he thinks this is the best lynch". If this slot is actually town, then I no longer have any hope for the future.

Ricastle:
The push on Mastina for lying seemed ridiculous when she really didn't have any reason to lie. The push on us sucks because he saw vezok say that we claimed scum in our first post and he went "ok, sounds good". The push on Sonic for reasons I really haven't come close to understanding additionally sucked pretty badly. It feels like Ricastle has jumped on pretty much every single easy mislynch that comes in front of him; the only reason I have for him possibly being town is that it's almost too blatant to be scum, but I wouldn't cry if he ate a lynch.

Reasonably Rational:
There's not enough money in the world to bribe me to read this ISO in depth. I read the "I know that I'm better at any given intellectual pursuit" shit and the "Bayesian analysis" posts and my eyes glazed over. Don't know if they're scum, don't yet care because man.


BAD LYNCHES:

farside22:
I think farside's Cheetory scumread is awesome and not a scumread that a partner of Cheetory is likely to have. I'm also a big fan of her push on RR; feels very genuine the way it unfolded and I agree that the "no real reads D1 because it's apparently arrogant to play the game D2" is a load of bullshit, although I think it's bullshit created because of personalities and not because they are scum.

mastin2:
I don't agree with mastina's reads. I don't believe she's actually gotten engaged enough with the game to read her properly, but Gordovan thinks she's town so I'm probably going to defer there until I run out of good lynches.

Fluminator:
Quiet guy, but don't actually have a problem with anything that he's posted so far. The push on RR for dishonest language seems genuine enough and I like his attitude around alliances.

[Beer]

Beer, any read on Fuzzy?

I think Fuzzy is town for reasons outlined in 1187.

Beer, when did you full claim to Vezok in your hood? In post 1016 Vezok stated that he asked for a full claim and you never gave it. Was it before or after that statement?

Claimed that we were hated pretty easy.
When in alliances, we can redirect stuff away from us to a player of our choice. We didn't claim that, seemed pretty irrelevant to me.

[Beer]

Claimed that we were hated pretty easy.
When in alliances, we can redirect stuff away from us to a player of our choice. We didn't claim that, seemed pretty irrelevant to me.

Fucking shit. How is this thing still alive? Seriously. This needs death right now.

Please do us a favor and vote for beer in your next post.

If all you do is quote a post and act SUPER EXASPERATED it doesn't actually help push our lynch at all.

[Beer]

GOOD LYNCHES:
Marquis:
Could be town.

BAD LYNCHES:

Skybird:
Skybird looks pretty OK so far. The reason I don't want to lynch the slot is because the interaction with vezok in 522 seemed pretty genuine and hard to fake (the "I refuse to vote them to be town read" part in particular. I don't understand why she's voting us now? But that's mostly okay, don't really see too much to pick up on here.

Bins:
Eh. Posts a lot. Doesn't do much. The only real reason she isn't in the lynch pile is because I like where she's been going.

Marquis:
Posting also sucks, but the hemming and hawing over the fuzzy lynch seemed town because of how useless it was for scum-Marquis and also the Sonic thing seemed sort of townish. 517 is not the best post in the world though: the argument that he laid out there looked like it was something along the lines of presenting that he was town who just didn't care how he was read but the post in and of itself was trying to correct bad scum reads on him, which isn't ridiculously scummy, but weird.

[Beer]

VOTE: beer

Is it really that hard to comment on some of what I'm posting?

[Beer]

I think strongest votes are placed in NicCage/Raging Bull/Cheetory. Would be more than happy voting any of these places, keeping my vote on Raging Bull because he really should be the easiest read this game has.

[Beer]

In the order of the player list. Strength of reads should be obvious by the content of them.

[Beer]

Admittedly, I got lazier in the reads on the bottom half of the player list but I also didn't have any strong reads there so it all worked out pretty nicely.

[Beer]

as much as i like your read on me, i think your slot earlier wass haranguing me and calling me scum or something.

so is this an effect of hydra dissonance? or have you reconciled your differences?

We've reconciled our differences, for the most part.
Other heads haven't been very engaged and only glance at what I tell them to look at so I have more swing than others, but Gordovan doesn't really feel very strongly about your lynch anymore.

[Beer]

strongest to weakest

TOWN
vezok, Maxwell, Trench, Grapes, Farside, Sonic, Tunnel, Skybird, Replace In, Mastin, CooLDoG, Fluminator, Bins, Marquis

SCUM
Cheetory, Raging Bull, NicCage, Ricastle, RR

[Beer]

Gordovan doesn't really feel very strongly about your lynch anymore.

why not?

can you explain your hydra's thought process behind the change in read?

Not really.
He skimmed your ISO, didn't mind your recent posts as much. If he was putting any sort of significant effort in the game, he would be posting here.

[Beer]

Saying that I'm voting someone for townreading them, is like saying that you're voting me for scumreading someone. You're tossing out a load of context from that vote and it's annoying >.>.
Do you genuinely think that it was this simple?

If I add context, your exact vote was because he overexplained a town lean. How is that scummy in any shape or form?

I actually do feel somewhat good about Fuzzywagon atm. I've just been spending more time on other games and have been busy with a new job. I know excuses are shit at this point and I said if I was playing like trash by now then throw shit my way, but I'm unfortunately not going to be as invested in this game as people would probably like and that probably won't change for a while.

Why is the Fuzzywagon good? What has he done that is scummy?
I don't suspect you for lurking. I suspect you for shitty pushes.

You're a gimmicky three headed mystery hydra in a game with 21 people who's original head entered the game by trolling relentlessly. Shocking that it's hard to follow trains of logic to find inconsistencies there or genuine thought processes.
I've literally walked through your ISO twice before this and got no kind of feeling for whether you're town or scum.
I could pretend?
Would that make me harder to shade?
Let me know.

Yes, yes, we're a craaaazy three headed hydra, but here's the thing. Most other people in the game haven't had trouble forming some type of a read on us. Why are you the only one (other than maybe fuzzy) that's so confused by our zany and crazy posting style that you can't even attempt to form a read on us? What do you think of Gordovan's push on Sonic early game? What do you think of the Raging Bull push? What do you think of my readslist? Despite the mystery hydra aspect, we're still people posting things; our ISO isn't a black hole devoid of content and we don't constantly contradict ourselves in a way that makes it excusable to fail to read us completely.

[Beer]

I don't get how you can toss away people saying Fuzzy is playing to his scum meta and then act like you understand his meta here. You think Fuzzy is being loud this game in general?
Have you played with him before or read the games linked which showed how he's played in the past?

The two meta assertions made about Fuzzy-scum versus Fuzzy-town is that as scum, he lurks and as scum, he sounds fake as hell. I glanced through the linked games and don't think the activity difference is significant to be scummy and don't need meta to tell you he's being genuine this game. I don't think he's being loud, no. People aren't always loud.

If RB is scum, then sure, this would be kind of hard to see as scum/scum interaction.
I don't agree with him not being scum and asking this though.

Why? If you're scum trying to get town modkilled or punished, you PM the moderator, you don't request that shit in thread.

Pft.

You disagree, why? I see a lot of points where Fuzzy sort of self-flagellates and criticizes himself for his play this game. I see that Fuzzy did try to find an alternative to his lynch in the game. I see that Fuzzy moved off that alternative because the "useless player" he was voting replaced out and he didn't want to lynch someone before they could prove their innocence. That in and of itself seems genuine and hell, and it makes sense for him to be okay with getting lynched since he thinks that he's a bad player and hasn't been playing well this game. If you can't see genuineness in that mindset, then you're just plain bad at reading people because Fuzzy really doesn't seem like the manipulative type.

[Beer]

It's rhetoric. Please don't take it personally, focus on the points.

[Beer]

Because I asked him to explain a townlean and he gave me an entire page of reasons for that townlean, which felt like he might have been sitting on nothing, felt nervous about it when I asked him and then went and got a shit ton of reasons to try and justify that read.
I started feeling less confident about this when I engaged him on it because it felt like he thought I was asking him to talk at me about why he was town and while that makes absolutely no sense, I don't really get any kind of good feeling as to whether townSonic or scumSonic would be more or less likely to do that.

I can't see many players having a particularly nervous response to being asked to explain to a read. Do you two know each other well or something?

I really don't think I'm going to be able to change my readconfidence level on your slot this early in the game though. That's just the honest truth.
I know it's like super duper protown to overhype confidence in reads and pretend like you're a scumhunting master, but I'm just kind of tired of playing like that. I'll be confident when I am confident about something.

Didn't ask for confidence. I asked for something. You know that you were being lazy in reading us; be less lazy or just be more honest about being lazy because blaming it on the mist isn't truth.

[Beer]

I won't be around for much longer, so if you want something else from me soon, now's the time to ask for it.
Don't understand why people aren't voting Bull.

[Beer]

What do you think about Bull?

[Beer]

VOTE: beer

>neighbor is strongest townread
>not forthcoming with him

sold


@vezok why are you calling me scum?

I haven't bothered checking the neighborhood lately, I figured it would be pretty useless talking to someone who is 100% convinced we are scum and isn't going to change his mind anytime soon.

Trench, I'm not totally convinced Beer is scum. But I have asked him some questions that it seems to me he has deliberately not answered. Just a few pages back Cheet asked him a question and I asked him a question. He has a long exchange with Cheet and totally ignores my question.

The question that you asked me was checking that vezok didn't lie when he said that he asked for a fullclaim in the neighborhood and didn't get one. The first time we fullclaimed was in thread yesterday.

Oh I see the claim, I missed it before. Ugh I dunno man.

And, for the record, this type of hesitation is exactly how I expect scum to approach my wagon: they're disinclined to endorse it because they know that we're flipping town, but there's no way in hell they're giving up the mislynch so they stay in the wagon with half-assed rebuttals and just not being 100% sure we are town

[Beer]

I'm here to vote as needed, but yes, a raging bull wagon seems extremely unlikely to work. I don't feel especially good about lynching off this whole ika is inactive as scum tell, but I don't mind lynching lurkers anyways, and he's been lurky...though not so lurky the last few hours.

-Cerb.

He hasn't been posting the last few hours. Frog has been, and he is usually decently active regardless of alignment.

I know I've had trouble, you know, getting into this game, but that's because things are less clear to me and I don't know why. But I do have a townread on RB - only because of the freakout, for some reason it's pretty town to me.

Freaking out while drunk isn't town and I hope you drop this stupid stupid town read when I'm dead, as a kind of last will sort of thing.

[Beer]

Can we please lynch Beer? It's really fucking informative. Even if he flips town. It's better than lynching RB and A LOT better than No Lynching.

I'm dead. I'm town.
What information did that give you?

[Beer]

Freaking out while drunk isn't town and I hope you drop this stupid stupid town read when I'm dead, as a kind of last will sort of thing.

It's not a strong read, but it's enough to convince me not to flash wagon them when we have 5 hours.

It's not a read period.

[Beer]

Can we please lynch Beer? It's really fucking informative. Even if he flips town. It's better than lynching RB and A LOT better than No Lynching.

I'm dead. I'm town.
What information did that give you?

From what I remember, I hated Skybird's vote. I'll look back after you flip.

Skybird has one of the better looking votes on the wagon. Our wagon isn't at all informative because it consists of town spearheading the wagon and plenty of votes that are on there because people don't understand what the hell is going on. The only vote that I see that is obviously scum-motivated is NicCage's for reasons I've already talked about; are you going to look back at his vote? Or are you going to let our mislynch lead to other mislynches?

[Beer]

Freaking out while drunk isn't town and I hope you drop this stupid stupid town read when I'm dead, as a kind of last will sort of thing.

It's not a strong read, but it's enough to convince me not to flash wagon them when we have 5 hours.

It's not a read period.

It is. I'm sorry that you think otherwise.

Again, you're townreading someone because they drunk posted and were honest because of things that have nothing to do with the game. This is a dumb read. Alcohol doesn't make you afraid of posting. Scum don't lie about RL situations. The read is bad. Give it up.

[Beer]

Also, I'm sorry for ditching earlier @Beer, today ended up being really busy.
If you want to talk about Fuzzy now, I can definitely try, not sure how valid of a use of time that would be though.

I'd be happy if you looked at what I talked about wrt fuzzy after I'm gone. I don't have a whole lot of time and don't really want to spend it there, honestly.

[Beer]

Freaking out while drunk isn't town and I hope you drop this stupid stupid town read when I'm dead, as a kind of last will sort of thing.

It's not a strong read, but it's enough to convince me not to flash wagon them when we have 5 hours.

It's not a read period.

So activity is?

It's so annoying when I'm read as town or as scum based on activity

Don't care about your activity. I care about Ika's. There's a very strong correlation between activity and alignment with him and he's shown no signs of fixing that correlation anytime soon.

I don't think you've done anything that looks particularly town, either: pushing vezok for not paraphrasing the PT shows that you're not reading his posts very closely or looking at his play as a whole.

[Beer]

1) Because of the whole "claimed scum" shit we need sorted out and cleared up. No one wants to deal with that later on in the game - and we can't just let it go unanswered. We get an answer to that and if we are even luckier, it will give us more info re: reactions to that.

What happened is that Gordovan came into the PT, went "I'm not town. Oh, I'm not scum! Darn, I always mess that up!!!", which is a scum claim that is very obviously a joke. The votes on us based on that are based on people not really understanding what happened because they weren't there, they just figure it's good because vezok is town and fervent as hell about it but really he just doesn't get jokes. The only information coming from my flip and the whole claimed scum situation is that vezok and jokes don't mix and I can inform you of that right now.

[Beer]

2) The wagon is pretty nice and analyzable. I didn't like some votes there, etc.
3) If he's scum, THIS (RB) wagon is pretty analyzable.

I don't understand why my wagon is nice and analyzable over every other wagon in existence. It feels like you're touting the information gained from my lynch as some huge bonus to lynching me over other people for essentially no reason at all. If you need to read back before telling me conclusions about my wagon, how do you know there is anything to gain?

[Beer]

What do you want me to say, Beer?

"I'm sorry, you're right, it's not a read. Let's just not lynch Beer!"

I'm not going to bet anything on the read. It's probably going to fade away soon, as I'll need something more concrete. I could be wrong. But it is something, and it's definitely enough to not want to switch to him right now.

"I'm sorry, you're right: the reason I'm voting you is because we need a lynch. I don't actually have a read on Raging Bull!"

Stop pretending like my lynch is some magical treasure trove of information if I'm town because it's not. Stop pretending Raging Bull has done anything vaguely townish because they haven't. Lynch me because you need a lynch, then listen to the points I've been making all day tomorrow.

[Beer]

I'll be back in an hour and fifteen minutes; please hold off on my hammer until then.

[Beer]

And, for the record, I've known that my lynch is inevitable for a while now. I'm not fighting for survival, I'm fighting for my credibility and I'm fighting to make sure the town is on a better track when I'm gone.

[Beer]

You all forgot that a lynch didn't happen after bins "hammered"

Beer obviously isn't hated

Either that or Varsoon made a vc mistake

There's 9 votes on Beer and 11 to lynch.

Beer could still be hated.

VOTE: Sonic X

>.>

This is an extraordinarily lame vote. You think that Sonic-scum pushes that we are scum because we are not hated when we only have 9 votes on us?

[Beer]

Vezok's somewhat shadiness in terms of being forthright about what was said and the hated claim deal and I am not feeling good about a Beer wagon. He's probably getting lynched anyway because deadline, but you are my strongest scumread because both you and ZZ are playing to your scum meta.

Vezok has been shady about the situation? Hasn't seemed that way at all to me. It seems like he made a misguided push and put his heart into it; you say that he claiming we were hated happened too late but he did it early enough where the town could have did something about it and he was additionally under no obligation to share our claim because it is our responsibility to get in thread and claim our shit. You trying to pin our lynch on his shadiness is bullshit.

There's also that matter of the empty claim of Sonic/ZZZX playing to their scum meta: are you planning on backing that up, or do you hope vague meta assertions about other players are going to carry you to victory?

[Beer]

So I don't know how conducive my behavior is to the game state, but I'm starting to get really annoyed that every game I'm scumread because of my activity or lack of activity.

People are scumreading you based on your activity? News to me!

[Beer]

I'm sticking with my initial read on this one. This third head has looked a bit better, but why aren't the other heads even posting right now when they're about to be lynched? Are they really just letting you do all the work?
I wouldn't really want a vote switch onto Bull anyway. I've seen Ika lurk as town before too and I wouldn't want to lynch off that. Especially now that he replaced out.
Sorry Beer if you're town.

They're not posting right now because they're busy. I offered to post near the end of the day because I am not so busy. I don't understand how this particular hydra dynamic is scummy to you?

You've seen Ika lurk as town, ok. Has he ever gone through an entire day phase with this little content as town before? Do you really think that ika replaces out of this game without telling his own hydra partner as town or do you think he at least makes an effort to defend himself/explain what happened?

I can't stress enough how straightforward and easy the Ika read is. Read his completed games. Skim his ISOs. He lurks comically hard as scum (which is what he's doing here). He puts some sort of effort in as town. That's it.

[Beer]

Cheetory looks a little bit better: his point on Bull peddling the possibility or a vezok/us is a good one because that's ridiculous. I wouldn't take him out of a scum category, but I would be less inclined to lynch him over Bull/NicCage.

Bull/NicCage are the two players that seriously seriously need to be looked at when I flip town. Bull is white knighting us: he continually tries to ascribe scum motivation to town players pushing out wagon that isn't there, his thought process doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and he keeps complaining about people pushing him for his activity when the entire push is on Ika for his inactivity.

NicCage jumped on our wagon for dumb reasons, and then when TSO challenged him he freaked out, kind of backed off, left his vote on. That's bullshit.

[Beer]

Marquis should also be looked at pretty closely tomorrow. His Amished tell thing is stretching pretty hard and its difficult for me to believe someone so smart would believe in someone so dumb, he pushed too hard on lynchbait Fuzzy/radmann and recent reads have not been so good. Not really sure on a #4 at the moment.

[Beer]

You all forgot that a lynch didn't happen after bins "hammered"

Beer obviously isn't hated

Either that or Varsoon made a vc mistake

There's 9 votes on Beer and 11 to lynch.

Beer could still be hated.

VOTE: Sonic X

What was the vote here for?

[Beer]

You're telling me you voted him for your old reasons and just quoted that for fun?

[Beer]

Can you actually just put forth a readwall Beer?

I'm out of the door in a minute and phoneposting, so no.

My scumreads that I would recommend pushing tomorrow are Bull/Nic/Marquis.

My top three town reads that really shouldn't be pushed tomorrow are Trench/vezok/Fuzzy.

[Beer]

Just don't let Bull slip away. Town can't win if obvious scum like that live until day 2.

[Beer]

Live past Day 2*.

See ya, feel free of to hammer.