SMITE Role Madness Mafia (OVER AT LAST!)

[mastin2]

Yo.

Vote: Imperium

.

Why?

Because screw you all, I am a scumhunting GOD.

[mastin2]

(No, but seriously, I'll get to this game in a bit. This game will be quite the buzz. Bee right back.)

[mastin2]

I was thinking about this game and thought about the gambit MS played against Xombie. I guess I'm too influenced by the playstyle of UberNinja and drmyshotgun but when you think about it, Xombie didn't have a reaction really which is weird because when I think about it more, I would have screamed and condemned Metal Sonic and created an ultimatum to get him lynched. But Xombie didn't do that. Instead, he was like "uhhh ok" which doesn't strike me as what a town player would usually say in that situation.

Xombie is town. Trust me on that. (Because I am a scumhunting god, duh. )

[mastin2]

Because screw you all, I am a scumhunting GOD

dess

.

ftfy?

Well, yes, I am a goddess, but I'm playing the ROLE of a God. Stop ruining my fun.

[mastin2]

Mastin, you are not a scum hunting god.

Well, what if I claimed Bulletproof-Mason-Cop-Tracker-Watcher-Doctor-Vig? Would I be considered a scumhunting god

then

?

[mastin2]

/confirm

Shoulda voted this, though could be town.

/con to the firm firm

mrifnoc\
Bow down, bitches.

Pretty sure this is town. Imperium's not in this zone, but is just below it. Solar Wind's between both.

hi

/confirm

Town.

/confirm

Probscum.

/confoim
4 pages already :O

Vote: RachMarie

.
Trust me, I'm a BP-Mason-Cop-Track-Watch-Vig-

Doctor

. Scumhunting god and all.

[mastin2]

Mastin, you are not a scum hunting god.

Well, what if I claimed Bulletproof-Mason-Cop-Tracker-Watcher-Doctor-Vig? Would I be considered a scumhunting god

then

?

Nope, then you would just be a dumb role that can't possibly used efficiently.

No, no. See, the abilities are separate, not needing to be on the same person! I have them all at my disposal, so they could all theoretically target the same person, but they don't need to!

Oh, I should probably mention I'm also un-redirectable and unblockable, too.

See? See? Scumhunting god!

[mastin2]

4 slots! six players!

While I'm glad I'm a scumhunting god, I'm intensely sad I'm not in your neighborhood. I'm missing NOT ONLY ffery/F-16, but ALSO Tammy/Nacho!

(My masonry is kinda lame.)

Also I'm so bulletproof
real claim.

Kinda want to say AP's town because he'd know that if he fakeclaimed BP I'd lynch him on policy alone.
...Then again, am extremely tempted to...lynch AP on policy alone.

Ok yeah, I'm not reading anything that gets posted before the game starts.

/confirm!

Town.

Also, hard to lock down for sure, but lean that way on Sonic, too.

Shit, 5 pages and the game hasn't even started? >_<
/confirm...

Not feeling the townvibes. I think House is probably truthclaiming, though. (Just don't think he's town for it. "Wait, what? Scum vengeful?" Wouldn't surprise me.)

/through 10.

[mastin2]

Mastin, you're voting someone that Nacho and I are both reading as town. :/

My read's not changing, but alright, as long as you realize I get MASSIVE "I told you so" rights postgame if I'm right.

Vote: -Blonde-

.

[mastin2]

AP, please tell me you are kidding and not that you are scum again ready to mudsling into oblivion.

As of 380, I'm worryingly

not

getting townvibes from AP's posting. Who knows, that might change later-on, and it's difficult to lock down when he was V/LA, thus, unavailable to post more like the AP I'm comfortable with, butstill...

Generally, by now, he towns things up.
I'm not seeing the towning things up; I'm seeing posting things up. Not "mudslinging", per se, but more like...posting to post stuff, rather than posting to see what sticks. (AKA, scumhunting.) Doesn't mean he's a scumread, yet, but he's disconcertingly close to one.

[mastin2]

So from the top, Solar winds interactions over the last couple pages are shitty. 453 and 458 are downright terrible and since I've already decided that solar and imperium can't both be town because you're trying to goddamned hard to buddy each other you can be the scum out of the two.
I think fourtrouble is scum too, the ank push is for shit and almost every other post he's made is asking random unconnected questions. Just fyi, lynching someone for being anti town is classic scum play, and vezok is town as fuck.
I'm reserving judgment on the whole xombie/metalsonic debacle. I seem to literally always scumread metal sonic at some point in the game and am usually wrong so I am a bit cautious on this issue.
I have a gut scumread on house that will take some more examining for me to explain to myself and others.
For now, VOTE: solar wind, sup man?
Also we should not out neighorhoods.

I believe I have a TD rule to enforce:
If TD starts to godawful posting, town so bear with it.

So dangit, looks like I'm a bit...well, stuck.
'Cause, well...*points to above*
...Following the rule......

Also, calling it quits on 20. Getting too tired to continue.

[mastin2]

Why are you voting blonde?

Because I don't feel like voting AP, yet?

[mastin2]

Are you expecting AP to post while he's V/LA?

I expect nothing from AP.

What I'd HOPE for from AP would be having a constant stream of readable content where his heart was in the game rather than in whatever place his distracted mind has placed it in (via his V/LA and multi-game priorities) so that one way or another I'd have a read locked down.

I don't.

[mastin2]

Mastin, you're voting someone that Nacho and I are both reading as town. :/

AP, please tell me you are kidding and not that you are scum again ready to mudsling into oblivion.

As of 380, I'm worryingly

not

getting townvibes from AP's posting. Who knows, that might change later-on, and it's difficult to lock down when he was V/LA, thus, unavailable to post more like the AP I'm comfortable with, butstill...

Generally, by now, he towns things up.
I'm not seeing the towning things up; I'm seeing posting things up. Not "mudslinging", per se, but more like...posting to post stuff, rather than posting to see what sticks. (AKA, scumhunting.) Doesn't mean he's a scumread, yet, but he's disconcertingly close to one.

Are you expecting AP to post while he's V/LA?

Should TSO or beastcharizard die? What if they re masons?

Haven't really seen anything from beast, but faaaaaaairly sure TSO's town.

Is it a null read or leaning scum read then?

I wouldn't say it's a scumread, but it's worryingly close to one.

[mastin2]

Mastin, you're voting someone that Nacho and I are both reading as town. :/

AP, please tell me you are kidding and not that you are scum again ready to mudsling into oblivion.

As of 380, I'm worryingly

not

getting townvibes from AP's posting. Who knows, that might change later-on, and it's difficult to lock down when he was V/LA, thus, unavailable to post more like the AP I'm comfortable with, butstill...

Generally, by now, he towns things up.
I'm not seeing the towning things up; I'm seeing posting things up. Not "mudslinging", per se, but more like...posting to post stuff, rather than posting to see what sticks. (AKA, scumhunting.) Doesn't mean he's a scumread, yet, but he's disconcertingly close to one.

Are you expecting AP to post while he's V/LA?

Why are so many people not voting?

[mastin2]

Hey mastin. Who would you track tonight if you had the chance, and why?

That's classified. I'd be more than happy to share with my masonry this answer, though!

Geez, I'd be paranoid if I wasn't part of this hydra.
- House

Kinda think you're town from that line alone. Also, eyestott's probably town for ~reasons~, but not sure about that.

So then how do you distinguish bad scum posting from bad town posting?

Bad scum? Heck no.

...And there's your answer.

Matin why are you voting for someone who has been pretty much a non entity in the game?

Because he's the only scumread I'm comfortable voting. You'd be my vote if not for the Rach defense squad (still calling for bragging rights if you guys are wrong and I was right), and I'm not yet comfortable enough with the idea of AP being scum to vote him. I mean, I

could

vote him, a-la a "Hi, AP" in the same vein my Imperium vote was a "Hi, Nacho" type thing (no, I didn't actually think anything they posted on page one was scummy, it's just that I wanted to vote someone on P1 and they're the people I decided to go along with), but it would be just that, whereas with Blonde, here I'm actually making an accusation, vanity-driven as it may be.

Also, what ffery said; I've commented plenty on people being town.

[mastin2]

(Disclaimer, no, Tammy, I did not forget about you. I have much <3 to you. But it was Nacho doing the p1 posting, thus my vote was a 'Hi' to him. Also, while you generally make yourself obvtown without me interacting with you, it's better for me to get a Nacho interaction to read him.)

[mastin2]

Mastin
I call conf bias on me. I can't remember offhand a game when you did not think I was scum and every time I turned out to be town, so I would not be pushing on bragging rights just yet.

On the contrary, I have a rather excellent history reading you. You've turned up scum when I've said you would far more often than not, and vice-versa, too. Now, in spite of being a scumhunting god, no, my accuracy is not a perfect 100%. But nor is this confirmation bias. I'm scumreading you because you're posting things which I put a fair amount of confidence behind being scum, albeit not absolute confidence. Thus, why I backed down. You're a scumread, but I'm not going to push you when you're not absolute and you've got a defense squad insisting to the contrary. I'll just gripe about it in the background. A sort of, "I'm willing to admit I could be wrong, thus why she's this high, but if not for the defense she wouldn't be nearly this high; she'd be my vote" type of deal.

[mastin2]

Also, fuck TD. The rest of our neighborhood is already revealed so I'm saying it here and now. He's in our neighborhood of four player-slots.

Is it bad that the first thought entering into my mind was "you should totally policy-lynch him to increase the overall quality of your 'hood"?

I feel like it's bad. (Also, should be noted, everything about me except for niggles of experience says to lynch him and that he'll flip scum. It's just the niggles of experience say, "sorry, wishful thinking". )

You're actually high hanging fruit this game ironically.

Just for the record.
I don't care about Bitmap's alignment; I'm never lynching there.

Also, BRantz's 500 was terrible. In a potentially-scum-but-not-sure kind of way.

[mastin2]

Anyway, caught up. I'll gather my thoughts together in a while, but pretty dang sure I've got a decent handle on the game, albeit one with too few scumreads.

[mastin2]

Xombie
ZZZX
Bitmap
FourTrouble
Imperium
Solar Wind
Ooba

TSO<--Read atrophied somewhat, but still town.
iHouse<--Around here for now.
Ankamius <--Eh, read atrophied a bit. Still townish.
farside22
vezokpiraka
VysePresident
PeregrineV
beastcharizard
theaceofspade
Metal Sonic
The Mask

TiphaineDeath
RachMarie <--But she'd be at the bottom normally.
BRantz
AngryPidgeon
-Blonde-

...Yeah, not a great division, but something like this for a start. It'd help if people were actually posting in HERE.

[mastin2]

(If you're wondering why Xombie's so high, it's because Xombie's in my head.














)

[mastin2]

it makes me rather sad to not see myself as town
though rational tso tells me I couldn't be town to everyone on my play so far.

Hey, you're close to! You're also pretty dang high up on the list, too. So won't be long before you earn your wings, I'm sure.

[mastin2]

Ok, I'm going to vote. Let's see..
VOTE: The Mask

Because?

*Shrugs*

Vote looks hypocritical

Could always vote Blonde with me, then!

[mastin2]

Mastin's vote was a joke.

Not

quite

. It wasn't a serious vote, but it wasn't just a joke; it was a greeting.

Are you reading Xombie like you'd read a newb?

No, not really. I actually kinda sorta had the alt-vibe about Xombie. But I have Xombie as that strong a read for good reason anyway.

I'll take your Rach concerns under consideration. What about her play feels scummy to you? I feel like she's pushing people this game more than she tends to do when she's scum. I haven't played with scum-Rach since Xenogears.

Everything? It's hard to explain. I'll try to explain it later, but...well, it's just that normally, I have a fairly good grasp of when she's town and when she's scum, and here it seems like what she's doing is attempting to blend in and fake town rather than simply being town. That's the basic thing I'm seeing, but I'm not sure how to show it.

[mastin2]

mastin is town... i hope

Well, you don't find many scumhunting gods that are SCUM, now, do you? (Yes, I am town. You can trust me.)

@ Mastin, can you explain the strength of your ZZZX read?

Well, I

can

, but it's the type of read right now where I'd prefer you "just go with it" for now, if that makes sense. I have my reasons, but...it's a little bit hard for me to put the words I want to forward. ZX is well-placed at the top, though.

Would also like an explanation of your Brantz scumread, and why Blonde is so far down the scumlist when similar low content posters seem to be in your null pile (and ZZZX in your townpile)?

Flat-out just gut, really. I didn't like Brantz's posts, liked the push against Brantz, and haven't liked Blonde.

You put TD in your scumpile but you said that his awful posting was town. Elaborate on this.

Combination of continued bad posting, thinking my memory on the TD-tell may be faulty, and others pointing out their own reasons for thinking TD was scum, while not really buying the reasons for TD being town. (Which I believe was you, so no offense; the argument just didn't resonate with me. Doesn't make it wrong, just makes it not something that appealed to me.) So sort-of sheeping.

More curious why he's a town read.

Like ZX, a bit hard to explain, but basically, his content's simply town.

So I'm the most likely to be mafia? .. Ok.

Especially with posts like this?

...Yep!

[mastin2]

Also, once or twice on a page is fine.
The entirety of the page, not so much.
<--She. SHE. HER. HERS.

[mastin2]

Liking mastin for scum. Not providing reasons for the majority of her reads is pinging me pretty hard.

I am a scumhunting god.
I don't

need

reasons.

[mastin2]

BS. You didn't hesitate when we were town together.

You call that not hesitating? I held my reads close to my chest for most of the game. (I'm assuming it's the newbie you're linking to.)

Given that this is role madness, I have zero hesitation to tell you that maybe I have REASON to hold back on my reasoning. (Again.)

But I

am

a scumhunting god, just so you know.

[mastin2]

Being a scumhunting god and being a scum god are not mutually exclusive.

But they really are.

VOTE: Xombie
Still didn't like his reaction to the point where I'll vote Xombie over vezo now.

Xombie's town. Let the dead rest in peace, not pieces.

I could lynch ZZZX.

Also town. Leave him alone.

Also, could wagon Mantis but it'd be a mehlynch, neither a scumread nor a townread. Mantis somehow slipped through the cracks on my list in 736, but is around the PV/beast level.

[mastin2]

Also, kinda forgot AP was in the game.

I realize he's V/LA and all, but...that's generally not a good sign.

[mastin2]

I get the feeling mastin's not trying to figure TD's alignment out.

You're right! I'm not! I'm putting absolutely zero effort into figuring people's alignments out. Scumhunting god, and all that.

...Doesn't change that I

have

the reads, though. So no, not fake. Just lazy. (Yes, to a very large extent I realize I'm just cruising on my reputation of being me, mastin2. Why? 'Cause it seemed like a good idea at the time, duh. )

Remember Tales of you?

In what realm do you compare a lack of effort this game to my over-the-top-to-the-point-of-detrimentality effort in Tales?!? Tales was the anti-no-effort game; I efforted so hard it killed me. Quite literally, in the game, and pretty metaphorically in my life.

[mastin2]

But, I'm curious why coasting seems like a good idea to you.

I wouldn't call what I'm doing coasting. That implies a level of prod-dodging and whatnot. I'm actually doing stuff. (A particular subject of note is talking in my masonry about important stuff. It's not very active in there, but what we're talking about is rather important all the same.) I might be doing so halfheartedly with regards to my reads, 'cause scumhunting god and all that, but needless to say, it won't last forever. I just don't feel like my presence is actively needed. Not with the current players talking about the players they're currently talking about, anyway. If anything of interest comes up, I'll engage them a little bit, but otherwise, I'm fairly content where I am right now. I have reads. I have reasons. They're decently good. And for where we are in the game right now, that is good enough for me.

[mastin2]

Why can't you talk about your stuff in here Mastin?

Because it relates to the full extent of our roles.

[mastin2]

AP/FT/Faraday/Xombie I want mastin opinions, go.

Xombie's town. Faraday's not in the game, but farside's a null read. FT I believe is town, though I forget how strongly. AP is...yet to be determined. I can't tell.

[mastin2]

Gonna switch computers and resume from 1037.

[mastin2]

Yeah, AP is scum. The whole manipulate Tammy routine is the exact same shit he pulled in Tales.

AP's posting is not giving me a read. I don't know

why

it isn't. Normally, I can get a read on him, town or scum, right or on the rare occasion wrong, doesn't matter; I can actually get a read on him. I don't know if it's me or him, but for some reason...I can't see it either way right now. His posting's null.

...

That being said

,

were

I to assign an alignment to him FROM THAT POST alone, gun to my head, I'd select town; there MAY be a marker or two that I found vaguely suggesting potential town thought, but nothing that he can't do as scum. So please hold. Trust me, AP will get read. Just give me some time to get it done.

[mastin2]

What did you think about house's posts before that?

Some scum (especially earlier), some town (especially later), overall pretty meh until eyestott came in.

I have my reasons, but...it's a little bit hard for me to put the words I want to forward. ZX is well-placed at the top, though.

Sorry, but no. I'm not going to assume you have any good reasons (meta or otherwise) for this.

Well, I do, so dealwithit.

But I am a scumhunting god, just so you know.

I'm going to assume this is a townclaim until I have reasons/paranoia to think otherwise.

It is in fact a townclaim. Advantage of role madness and all that being I can get away with it.

Also, kinda forgot AP was in the game. I realize he's V/LA and all, but...that's generally not a good sign.

:/ I'm not sure why you would think this.

Because if I have such little grasp of you that I don't even remember you're in the game, that's a very bad sign.

Fuck everything. Im sure as fuck not getting mislynched in this game mastin, so please step your read up on me.

Don't be hasty, Master AngryPidgeon. We ents feel like if there's something worthy of doing, it is worthy of taking a long time to do.

On policy alone, you get to D3, though. Even if I hardcore scumread you, policy D3 at least. By then, should be ridiculously easy to get a read on you.

[mastin2]

Yo. Nearly 4 AM, here, and I've got work tomorrow, not to mention schoolwork to finish. I'll continue reading from page 44.

[mastin2]

VOTE: theaceofspades

Would sheep.
Then again, would sheep Mantis vote, too.

[mastin2]

And its town because Im town this game.

It's the little things that make the difference.

This statement means absolutely nothing in regards to AP's alignment.

It does, however, betray his alignment off of tone:























AP is town. Decently certain of it.
(Did I nearly give you a heart attack, AP? )

[mastin2]

Sweet. Ceph, if you are town, obvtown up your slot quickly and we'll steamroll the scum.

Cephrir's gonna obvtown his slot up his alignment regardless. It's the "steamroll the scum" bit you have to look out for--because if there's a conflict of interest......

[mastin2]

Oh, totally missed the handlebars reference.

I'm skeptical, though. Alive, for now. Famous, sure. Take things apart and almost put them back together, definitely. Good with history, sure. Running the business, I suppose, and buy a product, well, yeah. Predicting the future, a bit iffy but I'll give ya. See the strings, well depends on which half does the posting, yet get no resistance to your leadership is assured. On top, sure. Reach is definitely global, and certainly could be called a secure tower. All-but-given that you're noble and pure, too.

...But where's the rap?!?

[mastin2]

I'm caught up again but I didn't really find anything worth responding to. :/

Well, I'm not caught up yet, but given my

entire

lack of investment in the content hereabouts, I will bee soon enough to say exactly this.

[mastin2]

*Mastin, if you are going to seriously crumb/meta-tell like I think you are doing then you better get your shit together and scumhunt like you mean it before Today is over. Please.

Well, technically speaking, I don't need to. But you're right, I want to. I'm just not really vibing off of anything right now. Any effort I'd put in would be forced, producing reads I don't really believe in, just for the sake of having reads.

Which I could do, I suppose, just that I'd prefer more organic ones.
I can give townreads. Scumreads, not so much.

[mastin2]

Ceph is scum because I'm only *probably* town to him!


(Disclaimer: not actually a serious post.)

[mastin2]

But anyone who thinks my arguments with the T-word were my fault seriously needs to do a reality check.

Announcement to the survivors of Tales of You:

Watch this video.

Please.

[mastin2]

(No, seriously, that song is ridiculously,

ridiculously

lyrically appropriate. If you can't make the lyrics out, look them up. Because Bastille's Bad Blood? Is the message all Tales Survivors need to be given.)

[mastin2]

Took me a second to arrive at the multiball conclusion, but yeah.

If this game is multiball, there will be

HELL

to pay.

I already had to live through (rather,

I

didn't

live through) ONE role-madness-pantheon game, and here I am, volunteering to enter into another when I have every reason to expect similarly-negative thoughts. After THAT level of suffering, if on top of it all, I then have to deal with lolSURPRISEMULTIBALL, then I'm murdering dramonic. And then going on a rampage to destroy the scum as a royally pissed off goddess.

[mastin2]

Also,

Vote: theaceofspades

.

[mastin2]

IVE ALWAYS WANTED TO PLAY WITH MASTIN

You're not gonna like where my vote was before.

[mastin2]

(And I'd go back, too, it's just that I have no problem being on theace wagon, in part because I feel scummish about them, in part because I like the names driving it, and in part thanks to its steady build.)

[mastin2]

I'd ask where the scum are, but that'd be hypocritical of me and I've learned better.
I don't really feel like compiling a readslist right now. Will say the TOWNTOWNTOWN section's all good for me and is top-tiered town for me as well. Thereon downwards, not so much. (Not as scum, just not as town.)

[mastin2]

Sadly, my role does not include a double-vote. (Guess who?)

[mastin2]

Sadly, my role does not include a double-vote. (Guess who?)

stahp.

Well if my scumhunting god abilities included a double-vote, you'd have seen it by now, no?

[mastin2]

Plus Vezok's dream.

Dreams are a legit form of scumhunting.

[mastin2]

Guys. I had a dream where this game ended and aceofspades won as scum.

This is clearly a sign he is scum.

Plus Vezok's dream.

My dreams have actually, legitimately, helped me get a read on players.
PV seems to be a popular target of said dreams, for some reason.

[mastin2]

Votecount 15: Accurate votecounts are hard.
Theaceofspades (8): AngryPidgeon, Farside22, vezokpiraka, mastin2, xombie, PeregrineV, Cephrir, Rachmarie
FourTrouble (1): The Mask, iHouse
vezokpiraka (1): Skybird
TiphaineDeath (1): FourTrouble
AngryPidgeon (1): theaceofspades
Rachmarie (1): Ooba
Cephrir (1): TiphaineDeath
iHouse (0): beastcharizard
Not voting: ZZZX, Solar Wind, VysePresident, imperium, TSO, Ankamius, Aeronaut
Reminder that it's 12 to lynch and not 13.
Deadline 6 days and 8 hours!

Uhh...Ceph joined five posts above, with none of them being Rach.

[mastin2]

Mastin worries me a little, too, especially if multiball turns out to be a thing.

Scumhunting god. You need not fear.

[mastin2]

Saving Mastin for later she has a lot of content and she is one of those who I struggle with pegging especially early on.

Lots of content my beehind.

I've given practically none to this game at all.

[mastin2]

I would simply like to remark that I am surprised no one else has noticed how terrible TD's posts have become.

*raises hand*
I did!

I just haven't done anything about it. (Similar, but to a much lesser extent, to my Rach read. No, that read hasn't changed.)

[mastin2]

There's really nothing to see on my end.
Ditto House's.

[mastin2]

No, no.
It's

minimalistic

.

There's a difference, yaknow.

[mastin2]

You wanted it to come across that way, yeah.

Trust me.
Scumhunting god.

I need no interaction with AP.

[mastin2]

But instead it comes out as massive pre-planned agendas. You knew you would eventually town read him and every post you make screams with that knowledge.

Well,

yeah

. All my actions this game more or less were preplanned. Well, big ones anyway. (General actions, and some specific ones that are controlled on my end, e.g. scumhunting god. Specific ones, not so much, butyeah, still planned.) Ever since I got my role PM, anyway.

I didn't

know

I was going to townread him.
I did however suspect as much.
It's also ultimately irrelevant, though. I have a preliminary read, sure, yeah, but it won't take long to lock down a much more solid one.

Also, get Nacho in here, Tammy. I know it's you because Nacho'd know better than this.

[mastin2]

(No, seriously, he can't be blind to what I'm saying; he should know me better than that.)

[mastin2]

I'm not blind. There are admittedly two things you'd be doing incredibly right if you were scum.

Ergo I'm not scum.

There are things I can do as scum, this aint one of 'em.

But there are also two or three maybe things you'd be doing just a little wrong as town and normally town-mastin fires on all cylinders, not just a few.

It'd be a lie if I said firing on just a few cylinders was all role-based, just as it'd be a lie to say it's lack of investment.

It is, however, an unfortunate combination of the two.

[mastin2]

Maybe this is a 3:15 am paranoia attack. I don't think so.

It is, but I suppose it makes for a good distraction. Which I suppose keeps me mildly involved in the game.

[mastin2]

Could you explain WHY you think I am scum?

Nope, not really. It's a vanity read. I have it, but I'm not going to push it. Wouldn't call it just gut, but since I can't point to anything tangible, gut's the only word I have.

What do you think of the wagon on Ace?

Looks towndriven for the most part and I've thought Ace looks mildly (albeit not severely) scummy.

What other scum reads do you have at this point?

Well, you. And Aeronaught/Blonde. That's about all off the top of my head.

What is your logical analysis of the froo froos?

My analysis of the what what?

[mastin2]

I don't think I'll want to lynch mastin day 1 ever, because she's so useful to keep around if town.

Eh, I wouldn't say always, but more often than not.

I'll be staying around for quite some time this game, though.

'Cause I lied/omitted in my scumhunting god claim before, I actually auto-commute yet can still use actions during the night meaning that anyone targeting me is gonna fail including scum trying to nightkill me. It has an expiration date, though, so after that scum can kill me. So don't you dare think of lynching me before then.

[mastin2]

Why did you immediately dismiss Tammy when she called you scum?

Actually, I didn't.

...I dismissed Tammy after one or two posts.

Please stop trying to use this as a defence, or even an explanation - it impresses raw newbies and no-one else.

Pfft, you'd be surprised.

I feel similarly about Mastin, except that I have a little belief in my own ability to read her once she gets more engaged, which I would like to see happening.

Honestly, I don't think engagement from me is going to happen today. I want it to, but I can't exactly force it. Well, I can, but the results are...well, forced. I don't think I can get natural engagement from the current gamestate. Obviously, I'd love it if I COULD, but right now, I'm not.

I'll keep players from lynching people I think are town, but other than that, not much else.

[mastin2]

[HER] read on AP in Post 687 felt hesitant, weak, and ambiguous.

...Because it explicitly was?

He's a hesitant townread. It's weak. It's uncertain. It is what it is.

It feels more like she's setting up Rach to be lynched down the road when Rach's defended have been nightkilled.

If I want someone lynched down the road, I put them in town and then reverse it to scum when most convenient. Give my scumplay some credit, here.

The AP townread in Post 1167 is weak as well and doesn't have the passion that town-Mastin tends to have when sorting AP.

Well that's both because I don't have the passion and don't need it. AP will get sorted. It simply doesn't need to be now.

[mastin2]

Maybe this is a 3:15 am paranoia attack. I don't think so.

It is, but I suppose it makes for a good distraction. Which I suppose keeps me mildly involved in the game.

This is a garbage fucking reaction.

Maybe, but it just so happens to be a truthful one. I am town, rather blatantly so.

I am also very, very disinterested in a lot of the happenings in the game.
Every single wall--and I do mean EVERY single wall--I'm

at best

skimming. Most of the time, not even that much.
...And given that most people in the game are posting walls? Should tell you how much of the verbage I'm actually paying attention to: virtually none.

Whatever strikes my fancy, I'll respond to. Things like opinions on me being scum catch my eye and get me mildly engaged, but serve as little more than a futile distraction; they aren't actually getting me more invested, though there's always the hope they will.

It's not a good attitude to take, and frankly sounds arrogant. It is, however, the attitude I'm feeling, and I can't help it. It's there. It's not going away. It's not even apathy. I know apathy. Apathy, where you don't care, you legitimately don't care, and only go through the motions for others, is not what I'm having. It's just an entire lack of desire to actually effort. It'll get fixed somehow, sometime, but right now it's not.

Voting me to catch my eye is all nice and good, but even given the above, an actual serious attempt to lynch me would be folly. Which I'm sure contributes to the problem. There's no danger. I know I'm not getting lynched; I also am confident I will not die. So subconsciously, I just feel like...you know, "Meh, I can wait".

[mastin2]

I'm frustrated because I hoped the push from last night would be a major red flag that said "hey, step your play up" and I got nothing.

Because it simply doesn't register to me.

I'm sorry, but it doesn't.

And no, not claiming. My masonry has my claim for the most part. That is good enough for me, at the VERY least until D2, probably D3.

[mastin2]

mastin is not a D1 lynch without an explicit scumclaim.

Mastin is not a D1 lynch even

with

an explicit scumclaim. (Or for that matter, D2......)


D3. No tochie teh mastin 'til then.

[mastin2]

I'll be back with real responses to things tomorrow, but I wouldn't mind lynching Vyse, only it's mostly for selfish reasons.

Ages ago, I had a mild read which I think mighta been scum, but heck if I remember. So I'd do it, but certainly wouldn't be my top choice.

[mastin2]

My review of Mastin's ISO feels like someone just cruising along not adding much to the game.

That's because that's EXACTLY what it is.

Now actually attach something alignment-relevant to it.

[mastin2]

Mastin, please get in here. I do not want to be forced to vote for you for self preservation today.

You'd get lynched over me if I claimed and explained my actions. I'll say that much.

So, votes go elsewhere.

Like I said.
I can tell you who is town to some extent.
I have the vaguest of vague scumreads.

Don't really have much other than that.
Like as an example, I can see the Skybird read, but something else made me ambivalent when I saw an equal and opposite reason for Skybird to maybe be scum.

I really don't have much to contribute right now.

Like even you, mainly because I frankly haven't been bothering to read your posts, I don't have a read one way or the other; I've simply not put in any effort to sort you. Given your claim, probably more likely town than not, and REGARDLESS, even without any claim from you you're not someone I'd want to lynch without a scumread on you (one I most certainly haven't had even the slightest niggle of since you came in, even though it's taken you softclaiming to get even the slightest niggle of a townread), meaning definitely not a D1 lynch.

But there's not much else to say.

[mastin2]

Why do I feel like you're just making stuff up to draw night actions?

Actually, quite the opposite, I'm trying to get night actions away.

Dead serious, btw.
TRUST me.
There might be, like, one or two town players that'd be good to target me.
The vast majority are NOT. Lying through my teeth about commuter-and-still actioning, yeah, telling a lie, not exactly.

[mastin2]

If mastin2 is a GF/II SK, fishing for night actions D1 is a quick & easy way to get towncred D2.

I'm pretty much an anti-godfather.

[mastin2]

Actually, I will spell it out for you.

TD, I need you to do me one favor. I need you to make a post that says, word for word, the following, and nothing else: My win condition in this game is "You win when all threats have left the game, or nothing can prevent the same."

I am reasonably certain that will get me modkilled cephrir, direct quotation and all that :/.

VOTE: TiphaineDeath.
Yep.

[mastin2]

shhhhh ceph...you'll let him know that handwritten means town.

Fun fact, basically everything that I do theory-wise is handwritten first, and some game posts are handwritten first. (For instance, in Sabotage, after Ceph was hammered, that post I got in at the last second? Handwritten during work that day, because I was pondering the game while lifeguarding.) It's just that I then immediately type it up. And often, make edits to it, 'cause I am an obsessive compulsive editor if given the opportunity to be one. (Nothing big, really. I just add extra details that weren't needed, and sometimes rearrange the order of given info, all in the hope of better posting.)

[mastin2]

Also, vig should shoot from among AP/Mastin/Ceph.

Vigging the BULLETPROOF claim (okay, admittedly, no harm done--if AP's truthful, no damage done; if AP's lying, he dies, butstill), the person who SPECIFICALLY SAYS THAT TARGETING THEM AS TOWN IS A BAD IDEA (vig included--I would not die, I'll tell you that right here and now), and someone who claims a powerful town role.

If someone claimed to vig one of us three, I'd frankly take it as a scumclaim, not a vigclaim.

[mastin2]

Mastin, what is it about the Ace wagon that you like?

Well, I don't think ace slipped, and I don't like Rach's presence on the wagon, but other than that...everything? I just like it. It's not a wagon I absolutely love, but I definitely do like it.

[mastin2]

As opposed to what? An Empking answer?

[mastin2]

Rachwagon.
TDwagon.
Dieing (but existing) Acewagon.
Interest in an Aerowagon.

...I approve.
They're definitely not all scum; I'd say at most, two of them are. But they're all scumreads, so any of them getting lynched would be a plus.

[mastin2]

Oh, right. Vyswagon, too, which was interested in.
The moment Anti comes in, though, I'll lose interest entirely given that I'm 90% predicting town that'll become obvious immediately.

[mastin2]

hi just a friendly reminder that mastin's still scum!

Also, Hi, Magua.
/hoping this game doesn't give deja vu to

last

Magua encounter. (*grumble, grumble, lynch the cop's guilty BEFORE the cop please, gripe, gripe*)

[mastin2]

Vote: AceofSpades

I dont usually vote for people i cant read/find null but it seems that with the addition of the deadline and being the most unreadable so far for me I have to do that and try to fully give this game my all in a full night read since this game is going in an insane speed for me. :<

oh and also if you want to lynch lurker scum d1 because you're too afraid to lynch mastin scum, you can also just lynch this
which is also obviously scum

No.

ZX is, 100%, town, and ANYONE claiming investigative/killing actions on ZX will as far as I'm concerned be scumclaiming. You'd be less scumclaiming by targeting me, and even that I consider a Very Bad Idea at

best

. (Well, aside from maybe one or two roles.)

[mastin2]

ZX <--Conftown.
Xombie <--Conftown.
Bitmap <--Conftown.
FourTrouble <--Very, very obviously town.
Magua <--House/iHouse's actions place him here.
Solar Wind
Imperium
AngryPidgeon <--Give it time. But townish.
Cephrir <--Best here for now. Give it time.
farside22

ooba <--Originally a townread, has faded since then since I picked up a potential alarm bell or two. I'll keep you posted.
Ankamius <--Similar to ooba, was a townread, but has faded, not for any particular reason, just has faded.
TSO <--Interchangeable positionally with Ankamius, for the same reason.
vezokpiraka <--Honestly, haven't been able to lock down vezok one way or another, which deeply worries me.
The Mask
beastcharizard
Metal Sonic
PeregrineV
Heartless <--I've no doubt that Antihero if town will send off the townvibes.

As of this moment

, though, he hasn't, which places him here pending further content.

theaceofspades <--best placed here, I feel.
Skybird/BRantz <--Mildly scummy.
RachMarie <--About here strength-wise.
Aeronaut/Blonde <--Blonde was scummy, Aeronaut far moreso.
TiphaineDeath <--Scumclaimed.

[mastin2]

I'm going to say this to all the people putting most of their play in the neighborhood.
If you're town you need to take some stances here, where everyone can see it.

Who said anything about this being from neighborhood play?

Frankly, there's very, VERY little I'd use a neighborhood for that I don't use the thread for. It's mainly for storing ideas, bouncing them off of partners, and the like, basically, info you don't want to be public yet.

EVERYTHING else.
Play.
Reads.
Reasons.
I put in-thread.

And ZX is much the same way.
He is town.
Trust me.

[mastin2]

Basically, my stance is that if someone is posting extensive content in the 'hood, they're scum.
Put it in public.

There's virtually nothing that you should hide. Paranoia's one of those things, sometimes. Reactions you're hoping to get can be another. But for the most part, any player who is posting rather extensively in their 'hood content that can/should be in thread?
Yeah, every reason to be suspicious of that.

But ZX, like me, doesn't do that. He's town.

Now, if someone in a 'hood wants to share a player that's posting content in-hood but not thread, feel free to! I'd listen

intently

.

[mastin2]

(That said, my masonry does know my claim, which means we talked about how to use it, but that's ROLE, not CONTENT.)

[mastin2]

Hey mastin, tell me, what do you think the likelihood is that there are two bulletproof variants in a role madness game?

90%.

But who's the second? I didn't (seriously) claim a BP variant.

[mastin2]

Seriously, put some damn trust in me for at least one freakin day.

ZX is town.

No touchie.

[mastin2]

I'll open that question up to the whole thread, what do you think the likelihood is? And yes, you fucking well did.

Pretty sure that I, as the one who

actually knows what's going on

, know what I said better than you do.

No, I did not. Not

seriously

. (Definitely joked about it, though.) Scum're more than free to shoot me. I am saying, though, that claiming to shoot me will be a scumclaim.

[mastin2]

See, whether you are scum or town that's probably true.

No duh it's true.

Thus, why targeting ZX with investigatives/kills (or blocks for that matter) is a scumclaim.
If I'm scum, then he's town and I told you the truth.
If I'm town, then

I know what I'm talking about

, told you the truth, and...he is town.

In either case, ZX is town, and you should feel bad.

you haven't made a single action this game that warrants me trusting you, and i don't trust blindly.

I need no action to warrant trust. None. Absolutely zilch.

When I say to trust me.

I fucking damn-well mean you better

TRUST. ME.

I know what I'm doing. ZX is town. Drop it.

[mastin2]

fact of the day:
mastin and zzzzzx are scum.
why aren't there more votes on either of these people?

Because

YOU

are more likely to be scum than ZX is.
And I'm basically anti-scum. Soooooooooooooo...yeah.

[mastin2]

I like to give mastin time, but I will admit I would expect her to have showered me with obvtown by now.

Part intentional, part circumstantial. Circumstantial is that I've been in a fucking low across the whole damn site and haven't been able to give a damn for the last while. (Check across the site. Name a single point where I've been in good condition consistently.) I'm not even sure I can identify the last point I was. Add in life, and I am in no. mood. for any sort of shit. Part intentional, in that I specifically told myself I would not obvtown myself until D3.

Yeah, D3, specifically.

I already have done plenty to be obvtown. But I knew I could go overboard on D3. And still can.
If people shut up.
And place even the slightest MORSEL.
Of TRUST.
In ME.

THAT THEY SHOULD BE MORE THAN WILLING TO GIVE.
Because I'm

MASTIN

.

I don't ask for trust in me lightly.

[mastin2]

Thus, why targeting ZX with investigatives/kills (or blocks for that matter) is a scumclaim.

It kinda isn't :\

Yes it fucking is.
And yes I'm going to strongman this point through.

You fight me on this.

You

will

regret it.

One.
Fucking.
Night.
One damn fucking night.

Leave ZX alone, leave me (mostly) alone.

[mastin2]

would you like to claim role information that zzzx is town?

No fucking shit, sherlock.

The hell do you think ZX's been doing at the top of my damn townlist the whole fucking day?

[mastin2]

mastin, i just read 2 posts and i know metal's scum. how is he still breathing 80+ pages later?

Because he's out of the game.

Temporarily, sadly.

And seriously, this is Xeno all over again. I'm me. Imperium is, with LUCK, BROseidon.

[mastin2]

if you're not willing to pretend that you're town, what are you willing to give me?

I've already given you way too fucking damn much. Trust in me gives you a return investment.

[mastin2]

/taking small break from game.

Preserving Sanity and whatnot.

[mastin2]

what would you like?

Not to lynch a townread.

I mean, lynching a scumread would be nice and all, but my scumreads are much weaker than my townreads are.
So work from my readslist, basically. Top tier, stay away from; mid-tier, compromise on; bottom tier is my ideal lynches.

[mastin2]

Man this thread is moving fast. I could agree to a ZZZX lynch. PV feels more town to me than scum. That's based on the last game we were in together. He sounds like he did in that game and he was town.

Still feels like scum.

[mastin2]

AP was a paranoia read and his lack of presence has given me hives. I'm totally comfortable voting there.

100% AP's lack of presence is a null tell. I would very much prefer not to lynch him, especially given that if he becomes cop-confirmed, then he's bulletproof, so conftown bulletproof = scum's worst nightmare. (Or he's a scum godfather but let's assume innocent = town BP for my sanity, 'kay?)

[mastin2]

Heartless hasn't made me really change views of their slot.

And I would be VERY disappointed if they lurked their way out of suspicion. Rather than, as it should be, vice-versa.

[mastin2]

Anyone else noticing how much Skybird's opinion seems to be the popular one?

[mastin2]

VOTE: AP

AP's wagon is extremely scumdriven.
NOT lynched a BP claim D1.

[mastin2]

If I had to guess a scum-team, I'd say Ceph, TD, mastin, and some lurkers.

When Ceph and I have both pushed TD and TD has pushed back.

[mastin2]

Are you talking to us/Ffery? No, I thought the lack of him putting up resistance to the wagon didn't feel like scum-AP. This isn't how I'd expect to lynch scum-AP based on Tales. Ffery pointed the same thing at the same time. And overall just not feeling it + if he's scum, I'll figure it out eventually.

He's not scum.

The wagon on him feels very, very wrong.

Especially since it sort-of served to completely replace the ace wagon that was there before.

[mastin2]

Is this how you'd expect to lynch town AP?

Yep. With his inactivity, definitely. It's probably null by itself. But given the push, and the way he's being pushed, I'd put my money on town.

[mastin2]

This is taking so much longer than I expected and I need to reprioritize because there is absolutely no way I'm going to make it through and be able to do what I normally do. I'll do it in the neighborhood thread over the night, but there's no just no way it's happening in the next few hours.
Who are the wagon's we're choosing between right now? I think I'll have to resort to ISOing them for vote placement.
I see that AngryPidgeon, beastcharizard, and theaceofspades are a few, so I'll start with those three.

Also, the Heartless slot is really, really, REALLY not sending off the townvibes.
At all.

They've previously had no problem doing that for me.

So still not moving them. If anything, their way of catching up is pushing them down, not up.

[mastin2]

Did you find Mastin's posting significantly different from Tales of You?

Fuck Tales of You. It stopped being viable meta circa July 2014. Too damn many towngames since then. Stuff has happened and changed. My play now could never resemble my Tales of You play. Stop using it. It was, very, very almost literally, an entire year ago. Know how much changes, especially in a player like ME, over a year?

Frankly, I think that applies to other players, too. I don't use Tales at all. Except to mention PTSD.

[mastin2]

vote: ap

The more people that vote AP, and the more 'reasons' (yes, quotation around reasons) they give, the more I absolutely HATE this wagon.

Don't lynch him.

Seriously.
If you can't wait until D3, at least D2.

I'd rather no-lynch than lynch AP.
He's a fucking bulletproof. You do NOT lynch a BP claim on D1.
Regardless of circumstances.
You just...DON'T.

Add in the SKETCHY-AS-FUCK circumstances, plus the fact that this is ANGRYPIDGEON. Who I can GET A READ ON. And this wagon is just.
not.
a.
good.
thing.

[mastin2]

AngryPidgeon (10): theaceofspades, Magua, Imperium, ooba, Vezokpiraka, RachMarie, Ankamius, Heartless, TSO, Cephrir, Skybird -

L-2

I fucking hate you all.
Except the scum.
You I understand.

And you can BET YER ASS this wagon is scumdriven.
One.
ONE player.
On it I have confidence is town: Cephrir.
Two.
TWO players on it I think reasonably are town: Cephrir, and Imperium.
Three. THREE players on it I wouldn't touch: Cephrir, Imperium, and Magua.

Guess what?

Would lynch every other name there.
Yes, not all scum.
But guarantee you.
GUARANTEE you.
That there's a significant amount of the scumteam there.

[mastin2]

Am I the only one who found Ankamius's post to be jumping through a lot of mental hoops to conclude that AP was the best lynch?

Didn't really give it that much of a look other than having ire at the reads in there. So consider this a "nope, not really, sorta did see that, too".

AP's flipping town.

[mastin2]

VOTE: beast
let's play "how many times will ceph have to do this"

I don't particularly think beast is or is not scum.

But I'd lynch him over AP.

[mastin2]

You've claimed commuter, so why would you have absolute faith in his bp claim anyway?

FFS, THE COMMUTER THING WAS A (semi-)JOKE.

I don't want people targeting me with (most) night actions for ~reasons~, but the claim itself was not serious.

I don't trust AP's BP claim absolutely. Rather the opposite, it's AP; I owe him healthy skepticism to it.
It's just that the circumstances of this wagon are very.
Very.
Deeply.

WRONG

.

And lynching a BP claim, even in a role madness game, on D2 just SCREAMS "Very Bad Idea".
YET ALONE,
When said player is ANGRYPIDGEON. Who I can get a good read on given time.
And who is a damn good player himself, when given time.
It's like lynching me in Organic Chemistry.
Yeah, I went there.

[mastin2]

Wait, so you don't have a read on AP yet? I was under the impression that you were reading AP as town.

Read off of AP himself is weakly town, thus, "don't have a read on AP". Not really, anyway, because unless I have a strong read on him, I might as well have no read on him. But the weak townread is there off of his play.

CIRCUMSTANTIALLY, the read is very.
VERY.
Strongly town.

Because I hate with an absolute passion this push for him to be lynched.

[mastin2]

So who do you want to lynch today Mastin?

You, Rach, TiphaineDeath for a start.

[mastin2]

Oh. And Heartless, too.

[mastin2]

VOTE: beast
let's play "how many times will ceph have to do this"

I don't particularly think beast is or is not scum.
But I'd lynch him over AP.

You have an hour left. What are you waiting for?

Slither of hope beyond hope I can get a lynch on someone I actually suspect.
Like this.
VOTE: Heartless.

But damn right I'm around right now.
Watching the clock tick.
If beast gets a wagon going, know what?
I'd hammer it.

I never hammer wagons, especially wagons on people who gun to my head I'd say were more likely to be town than scum. (My current beast read.)
But to save AP, I would.
I'm waiting every last possible second before switching, though.

[mastin2]

Oh. And Heartless, too.

oh fucking really we're going to start here?

Yes.

Frankly, I am royally pissed off right now and you're dealing with total bitch mastin.

[mastin2]

Fine. If you don't get your way, are you willing to see town not get a lynch today?

YES!

Mislynching beast is suboptimal, but I'd be willing to, especially on the chance that he's not a mislynch.

But I would rather fucking no-lynch.
Than lynch a fucking BULLETPROOF. ANGRYPIDGEON.

Seriously, it's not. worth. it.

[mastin2]

I would really really REALLY like to cook dinner.

Fuck dinner.
I'm here giving it up to play here and desperately trying to dismantle the AP wagon.

[mastin2]

BULLETPROOF. ANGRYPIDGEON.

This is getting kinda ridiculous. AP claiming Bulletproof isn't alignment indicative.

THE POINT ISNT" THAT AP CLAIMING PUBBLETPROOF MAKES HIM TOWN.

IT'S THAT LYNCHING A FUCKING BULLETPROOF ON DAY ONE (okay, being hypocritical, but my wagon's vanity so I can afford it ) IS A HORRIBLE FUCKING IDEA.
AND THAT IT IS ANGRYPIDGEON.
ANGRY. FUCKING. PIDGEON. Who is an established solidly-strong player I HAVE AN EASY TIME READING.

Makes itr all the fucking more worse.

[mastin2]

And because people don't seem to understand the concept of, "Hey, my vote's effectively on beast even though for official sake's I am vanity-voting", let's get all official and place it even though I shouldn't fucking need to.

Vote: beastcharizard

.

Bold, not vote tags, because he's not an actual suspicion. It's just the lead wagon other than AP.

[mastin2]

hey mastin
i can do something that will save AP
should i do it?

Yes.
And welcome to probtown for the time being, pending further content. (But saving AP is a great start.)

[mastin2]

omg if this is scum theater designed to save a scum ap i will fucking scream.

Admittedly I would defend a scum AP fairly hard. Especially a BULLETPROOF scum AP. (Or similar.)

But I'm willing to take the fall if I'm wrong, here. I'll own up to it if AP's scum. Fuck, might even offer myself up for the lynch even though that's probably not the smartest of ideas for it.

AP is not flipping scum, though.

[mastin2]

MASTIN CALM THE FUCK DOWN FOR A SECOND AND LISTEN TO ME
i can p much govern ap, but i need to know how confident u are in the read, b/c you're pretty notorious about getting burned
HOW
CONFIDENT
ARE
YOU
IN
YOUR
AP
READ?

With 0% as being no belief and 100% as absolute conviction and 50% as "decently, but not absolutely",
25% on JUST AP's play (so it's there, but not solidly), 90% on ALL stuff relating to AP (the circumstances behind this lynch).

I wish I had a better answer for you, but deadline and lack of AP presence = best I can give you on such short notice.
I'll take the fallout if I'm wrong, but yes, I'd save him right now.

[mastin2]

Solar Wind's case on AP is shit, by the way.
Just saying.

[mastin2]

MASTIN CALM THE FUCK DOWN FOR A SECOND AND LISTEN TO ME
i can p much govern ap, but i need to know how confident u are in the read, b/c you're pretty notorious about getting burned
HOW
CONFIDENT
ARE
YOU
IN
YOUR
AP
READ?

With 0% as being no belief and 100% as absolute conviction and 50% as "decently, but not absolutely",
25% on JUST AP's play (so it's there, but not solidly), 90% on ALL stuff relating to AP (the circumstances behind this lynch).

I wish I had a better answer for you, but deadline and lack of AP presence = best I can give you on such short notice.
I'll take the fallout if I'm wrong, but yes, I'd save him right now.

25% confident in his play

Fuck it, I'm a hypocrite anyway already so I might as well say it.
Nacho's scum for the same reason he was in Tales. (Thus the hypocricy.)

This shooting me down.
Is just like what he did then.

And fuck Tammy being obvtown, I don't care. Imperium's scum anyway.

[mastin2]

The person townreading him based on play is 25% confident in him being town based on play

Which ignores all the nother fucking markers in the thread such as the abysmally bad push on him.

Yes, I can get a stronger read from stuff outside a person's iso than on that person themselves. Yknw a secret?
Yes, Nacho, YOU know a secret?
I know you do.
This is how I fucking get my reads on people who haven't posted a single time yet when I make my earliest readlsists in games.
It's a trick that I'm about 90% sure YOU taught me hwo to do.

So 25% is off oif JUST the pla, but that does not fucking mean the read is onlky at 25%. It's at 90% because thos eother fucfking factors are not useless; they are important. Interacdtions, circumstances, context, all play a big FUCKING HUGE part in this and you damn well know.
KNOW.

THey do.

AP is town.

[mastin2]

MASTIN CALM THE FUCK DOWN FOR A SECOND AND LISTEN TO ME
i can p much govern ap, but i need to know how confident u are in the read, b/c you're pretty notorious about getting burned
HOW
CONFIDENT
ARE
YOU
IN
YOUR
AP
READ?

With 0% as being no belief and 100% as absolute conviction and 50% as "decently, but not absolutely",
25% on JUST AP's play (so it's there, but not solidly), 90% on ALL stuff relating to AP (the circumstances behind this lynch).

I wish I had a better answer for you, but deadline and lack of AP presence = best I can give you on such short notice.
I'll take the fallout if I'm wrong, but yes, I'd save him right now.

25% confident in his play

yeah... that really doesn't inspire confidence...

Knew ithat was a mistake.
Fucking knew it.
Knew I should have omitted the truth sand told the half lie.
So here you go.

FUCK 25%.
FUCK IT IN THE ASS.
It's 90% confident AP will fip town.

NINETY PERCENT CONFIDENT AP IS RIWN.
THERE YOU FUCKING GO.

[mastin2]

heartless just dropped out of my town reads by leaps and bounds.

Fuck this shit,
I'm not going to get beast lynched,
AP's getting mislynched,
So I might as well place my vote where I damn-well pleas.e
VOTE: Imperium.

[mastin2]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that AP most probably will flip town.

SO IF GIVEN THE FUCKING CHOICE>
OF LYNCHING A TOWN BULKLETPROOF.
OR NOBODY.
WHAT DO YOU CHOOSE?

"The townlynch for the info."

Okay.

WHAT info?!?

Seriously, that's the whole fucking point people seem to forget. A lynch is meant to give you INFO if it's not lynching scum.
What does lynching AP tell us?

Absolutely. fucking. NOTHING.
Ecept what we already knew, that we was town.

[mastin2]

mastin where were you when ap was getting wagoned this whole time?
were you not here yet or what?

AP WASN'T getting wagoned this whole time; THIS IS A FUCKING FLASHWAGON, THAT'S WHATR.

Guess what that does to my confidence?

Yep.

AP.
Is.
Town.

[mastin2]

you got outvoted mastin.

Fuck you, Anti. When it comes to AP I should NEVER get fucking "outvoted".
Me getting fucking outvoted is what leads to disasters such as Tales of You in the FIRST fucking place.

AP is town.

[mastin2]

so if AP flips scum does that mean mastin's scum too?

Yes. But Mastin's probably scum even if AP flips town.

SO WAGON ME, NOT HIM!

[mastin2]

we're no lynching...it's all cool. we can start day two doing this exact thing. won't that be fun?

Also, fuck this opinion in the ass.
Ive always.
ALWAYS.
Felt it was fearmongering.

[mastin2]

Mastin, with that logic all my lynch does is tell you that I am town. What info do you gain from my lynch?

None, thus the unvote.
There's something s that I just won't be hypocritical about, in spite of how hypocritical I often feel like being.

[mastin2]

Wait, so you voted me and yet I am not in your defintely scum among group? Am I part of some other group called: "People you want to try and mislynch"?

You're nulltown.
Nulkltownlynch is better than townlynch, but worse than nolynch or scumlynch.,

[mastin2]

Mastin, can we have a momentary truce while we rebuild people's emotions again? Let's make a sand castle together or something.

Conditional on not lynching AP, yes.

[mastin2]

Also, fuck you all.
For posting ten times before I can get in one post when I'm a fast typist especially when I don't bother with spellschek and jkust ignore it becausre I'm too ticked off to take the time to correct the typos.
And double-fucks for those on the AP wagon that're town.
Because right now, my family is calling for me to eat; it's family night and I should have been out there half a fucking hour ago but decided not to.
Because I am in here.
Fucking doing everything in my fucking power.
To save AP.

So fuck you all for not listening.

[mastin2]

@Mastin:

Super serious question time. Was AngryPidgeon in your neighborhood or not?

No.

But AP was a townlynch, not a scumlynch.
'Cause AP was, basically, a heavily modified bulletproof-cop-vig-survivor. His win condition is not mutually exclusive with the town's: winning when all outside the Norse pantheon is dead sounds bad (and to be fair, it largely is), but if the norse pantheon is made up of town, and they all live...then AP fulfills the wincon and so do the town members. (Admittedly, it requires careful planning to keep the norse pantheon alive and to make sure that it's town, butstill...)

So my stance doesn't change.
That was a godawful scumdriven lynch. We did not lynch scum D1. We lynched town.

VOTE: Skybird.
As good a scumread as any to start the day voting.

[mastin2]

Also I am very glad you guys lynched ap yesterday I would be the first to die

Would vote Sonic, too.

[mastin2]

But AP was a townlynch, not a scumlynch.

KNEW you'd say that.

Because it's the truth, and you damn-well KNOW it is.
AP was not groupscum.
Groupscum would have no clue AP was a third party. (Unless they did, in which case they'd want him dead EVEN MORE than town would.)
Thus, groupscum had every incentive to be on his lynch.

It was scumdriven.

[mastin2]

[

Ok so AP is a lie detecting bulletproof SK

Survivor-vig.
Not serial killer.
Serial killers can't win with the town.

AP could.

His role was ridiculously strong. Bulletproof. Lie detector that shoots scum. Kill.
Scum would want that gone.

I compiled a rough readslist last night. Went something like this:
ZZZX
Xombie
Bitmap
FourTrouble
Heartless
Magua
Solar Wind
Cephrir
farside22

TheMask
beastcharizard
theaceofspades
PeregrineV

Vezokpiraka
TSO
Metal Sonic
ooba
Ankamius

Aeronaut
TiphaineDeath
RachMarie
Skybird
Imperium


I've made a few changes, but basically, this. Is it perfect, HECK no it's not, but it's where I started.


So as you can tell,

AngryPidgeon (11): ooba, Vezokpiraka, Rachmarie, Ankamius, TSO, Skybird, Imperium

I just removed those that I'm confident are town. And I'm left with...yep. 7/11. Seven names. Out of eleven. Any of which, I would lynch.

So I repeat.
Scumdriven.

ooba's a little less scummy today than yesterday already to me (though will need to double-check that), and I had vezok as a shot-in-the-dark-town, with TSO also there for similar 'reason'. (By which I mean, gut.) So I want to focus on Rach, Ank, Skybird, and Imperium today.

[mastin2]

No deaths is not expected.

@Mastin:

Super serious question time. Was AngryPidgeon in your neighborhood or not?

@Heartless:

Why is metal sonic conf scum?

Okay, MASTIN was right. Okay means "kill everyone outside of this hood"


Ok so AP is a lie detecting bulletproof SK

And why, pray tell, did the wagon blow up out of nowhere, m'friend?

Oh, yeah.

Because Nacho said so.
Like he did in Tales.

And I take very, very, VERY heavily a grain of salt to any claim of Tammy being obvtown.

Nacho sure isn't.

[mastin2]

Skybird
Imperium

Why is your vote on Skybird then?

Because vanity votes are for the end of the day; pragmatic votes are for the beginning of the day. The other way around just leads to too much bitterness.



(Because I felt like it. It's not like I'll be able to get an Imperium lynch anyway. Even if I push hard, and push hard, right now, and continue to push. Even if I gave it 100%. It's not happening today. Thus, my vote would be little more than just that, a vanity vote.)

[mastin2]

Mastin, Ffery is right. AP's play felt scummy much like he did in Tales. If you read through my case(s) on him, I elaborate in more detail. He most certainly wasn't playing the way town-AP normally does and I don't think that he was playing to support a town wincon either.

On the contrary, your case was, and continues to be, shit on AP. He very easily could have been town with YOUR case on him. He's not an idiot, F-16. He'd see the role in basically the same way I did. So know what he'd do with it? Treat it as mostly-town, partially-not-town. More survivalistic, and more defensive of Norsemen, so not 100% town, but a good 90% town.

This, incidentally, is a perfect match with my read on him: I wasn't able to get the strong townvibes from a combination of his absence (null) and him not technically being town, but he was still all the same sending off townvibes albeit weakly.

Players who play SKs or SKlike roles as being scum are fucking insane. (Especially if you have bulletproofness.) You draw SK, you play almost identically to being town, because it's what gives you the best chance of winning.

Ergo, your case was still shit.

But I digress; this is a tangent and doesn't really help us with current scumhunting affairs.

However, I agree that mafia would probably have hopped onto his wagon thinking that they were about to score a mislynch.

If not Imperium, then, name them.

But I'm not a huge fan of looking only on the wagon.

I don't think all the scum were on the wagon.
I just think the majority were.

[mastin2]

Because the AP wagon was probably the scum counterwagon to ace.

Thought that, too, but have my doubts now.

Kinda sorta getting D1 Sabotage vibes from D1: all wagons in rotation being town and scum not really caring, so long as they get *a* mislynch in.

[mastin2]

/on 122.
Have to leave.

Be back later.

[mastin2]

At a glance, it looks like theaceofspades wagon at its height was composed mostly of low-frequency posters.

Check again; you're looking at it

past

its peak. (I, for instance, was on it during its peak.)

[mastin2]

If you're seriously scumreading Imperium, you're going to need to present something very convincing.

Oh, I'm scumreading them alright.
I'm not voting them, though, specifically because I

don't

have something very convincing.
I don't think Tammy's obvtown.
I think that Nacho's playing his scumgame.

I don't really have anything I can say beyond that because all I've got on the Nacho thing is, "that's just how I think he does things as scum?".
Which is to say, nothing.

you're scum.

Maybe he is, but I'd consider it a favor if we held off on the possibility until tomorrow.

[mastin2]

(It is, after all, TSO's scumday. Bit rude to lynch him on it, no? )

[mastin2]

Yeah, I'm not going to read 20 odd pages of this Bullshit, I roleblocked mastin and there was no nightkill. VOTE: mastin

Joke's on you! I didn't action N1. Why?

'Cause reasons. (I do in fact have a night action. However, I had VERY good reason not to use it N1, so I didn't.)

[mastin2]

i'd still like to lynch mastin
VOTE: mastin
i kinda thought that was the plan after an AP evil flip? and it looks more SK-y than survivor to me. I call it scum. Because evil.
I'm also now townreading heartless. because hydras are always town.
TD is now suspicious. will read his iso

Hey, know all those posts where I said I was doubting that theace was scum and AP his counterwagon?

Fuckthatshit.

(Also, TD

may

be town, but not assuredly so.)

[mastin2]

Oh Mastin - Does it make sense to you that TD role blocked you and then got stuck in brambles? Is that an effect of your role?

The less said about targeting me, the better.

TD's own damn fault for his stupidity. You can speculate all you want, but I know best; the less I say, the better.

[mastin2]

FourTrouble, care to explain your mastin vote?

As you may have noticed, no, I don't care to. Or at least not yet.

Gonna just quote this to be all smug and whatnot since I hold all the cards, here.

I have a very, very strong grasp of the game right now.
So I can confidently say, I'm never getting lynched. It'll be rather a while before I'm nightkilled, too.
You want more, tough.
My masonry knows. That's the best you get.

[mastin2]

/through 128.

[mastin2]

MS

may

be town, here, Anti.

[mastin2]

Mastin, What are your thoughts about TWIE's entrance?

My thoughts are 'meh'.

[mastin2]

Our vote is on them. What now?

You explicitly said it was a pressure vote.

Do correct me if I'm wrong, and you actually legitimately feel I might be onto something.

[mastin2]

If you genuinely feel that someone is scum, you should try your best to push the hell out of them. You are a charismatic and influential player. You can likely make a lynch of your choice happen.

Can, yes.

Like to, no.

I hate the mantle of town leader. And generally, I only invoke it when I really, really am that desperate to get what I want. (e.g. Ceph in Sabotage.)

There is a time, and a place, for an Imperium lynch. I made the judgement call that here and now is not then. So passive aggressive comments to the effect ("they're still scum, btw"), similar to my ongoing passive aggressives about Rach, are what I'll do until such a time that I feel I can, and want, to push it through.

[mastin2]

Like, I really don't understand why the fuck everyone is defending her. She literally have been coasting on every major wagon including the AP wagon.

(Marry me.)

[mastin2]

In case you missed it. Would your role cause TD to be covered in brambles?

I refuse to say.
You do a stupid action, I'm not going to reward your stupidity by being stupid myself and elaborating on why it was a stupid action.

[mastin2]

Mastin "could" be town but that's so unlikely at this point; her play at the end of D1 and start of D2 is scum, through and through.

If I were in the townblocking mood, you'd be excluded.
You're plenty obvtown enough.

It's just that you have absolutely ZERO credit when reading me.
'Cause this is the complete and entire opposite of the truth.
My earlier D1 play, sure, that could be from scum I suppose. If I was apathetic and broke my norm to 'crumb as scum, and whatnot.
Late D2 when I went hyper-aggressive?

That?

As scum?

No.

I need not say more. That was me, as town. Don't like it, tough. That's how I play when I'm ticked off and exasperated at town getting mislynched. And, yes. I do have reason to be quite smug this game.

[mastin2]

Oh, I was kinda trying to read her. There's still something giving me a bit of pause on that front, but all the same, it was a major improvement.

When will you guys learn when I say you can trust me, you better damn well trust me?

[mastin2]

I was right on AP here.

No, I was.

AP was not scum.

Guaranfuckingteed.
Ask him what he was playing the role as, town or scum.
He will say town.

Both times, Mastin annoyingly, irritatingly, pops up at deadline and undermines the work that others have put in.

Yes, the work to create a MISLYNCH. Rather than a lynch on scum. I'm fucking sick of D1 lynches on town just for the sake of nonexistent infogain for the sake of a lynch. It's bad play.

[mastin2]

I don't remember the details of Tales, but what I'm seeing here is mastin bitching that AP is town, but doing nothing -- NOTHING -- to stop his lynch.

FDuck you, Ft. That was ANYUTHINF FUCVKING BUT NOTHING TO TRY AND SAVE AP.
I literally threw the fucking book at the wall trying to save him.
PULLED FOM< FUCKING OUNCHES ON THAT.
I tried every angle.
Forcing a lynch through on beast in spite of having a lesser townread on beast.
Pleading to those on the waogn to not be there.
DISMANTLING THE FUCKING LONGIC IF YOU CAN EVEN CALL IT THAT FOR THE REASONS EHIND IT.
Canilling the reasons for the suspicion shit, WHICH THEY WERE.

Did nothing myu ASS.

[mastin2]

And I also think mastin calling AP a scumdriven lynch is very superficial and scummy, because most of the folks on AP's lynch look like town regardless of AP's flip.

Luke fucking HELL they are.

Name the town on the wagon.
Give the reasons.
THOROUGHLYU.

That wagon was shit.
Scumdriven pile of shit.

And I also disagree that third-party play like town.

AP thinks like me.
ESTABLISHED FACT.
We're frenemies of the highest regard.
He was my student like ETL was my student.
He and I have these weird mements where we both know the other.

And I can tell you what.

100% of the time, I play third party as close as viable to town.

So DAMN FUCKING STREAIGHT YOU CAN BET YER ASS that AP.
played.
as.
town.

Fuck.
Go look up any game where there's a SK debate.
(As just one, off the top of my head...uhg, why does it have to be the only example I have memorized, look at the Harry Potter/Metal Gear Solid crossovergame--forget its official name--where Tammy was outted as a serial killer. I very, very, VERY strongly advocated leashing them, and not once. NOT ONCE. Has that stance ever changed, outside the serial killer being obviously uncooperative. I've drawn serial killer myself, as Palisade, in a NY game modded by Wraith I believe it was; we shot as if a vig and even claimed as much for DAMN GOOD REASON; that's just how I play third party.)
You know that I take this stance, my alignment regardless.

So you should also know that AP, after he became my student, BECAME LIKE ME in how he would play that type of role: Not

exactly

like town, but close to. Know why? Because simple theory.
If you play like town as a serial killer, you're playing to your strengths: like town, you are uninformed, the only difference being you're an additional minority rather than being part of the majority. You will be more genuine. You will garner townreads easier, be more charismatic easier, be less likely to draw investigatives and less likely to draw other town roles. This increases the chance of being shot at by scum, but that's what being bulletproof is for.

So damn. fucking. straight.
That as a BP.
Not-quite-SK.
You go for the fucking town side of things.
Not the scum side.

Because playing as if you're scum when you're a serial killer is making you appear to be the informed minority, AKA groupscum, making you draw the ire of NOT ONLY the scum (who you'd draw the attention of regardless because YOU'RE NOT ONE OF THEM), BUT ALSO the town. In other words, it's just the correct play by fucking THEORY ALONE to play as if town. Play as if town = only scum out to get you; play as if scum = both town and scum out to get you.

AP's a smart guiy; he knows this too.
And I know he knows it because I raised him.

So go to hell, you incompetent fool.
I know what I'm talking about.

AP.
Was.
Town.

[mastin2]

i'm concerned still about mastin mainly because of the end of yesterday his trying to keep AP from being lynched. So certain and in the end so wrong

LIKE FUCKING HELL I WAS.
AP.

WAS.

TOWN.

And yet, not the normal variety of town which is why it was not as strong of a read as I was hoping. That's what was "off". Playing close to town, as if town, but through a combination of not being here and not strictly speaking being town, the read wasn't strong.

BUT HE WAS NOT SCUM.

[quiote]Idk why he would be so certain that AP was town, especially when he wasn't.[/quote] EXCEPT HE WAS.

[quite]My theory then is that scum mastin trys to keep AP alive as major buddying of someone he thinks is town get's an ally and creates a fake town block with himself. The shock of him not being town nearly kills mastin. Early morning scrambling, and now it's blown over. This is why i vote him now[/quote]
AS SCUM, AP IS MY NUMBER OINE PRIORITY FOR A FUCKING NIGHTKILL.
No exceptions.
None.
Ever.
Not once.

...Okay. Less viable this game since he claimed bulletproof. But in that gase, know what I do?
Same thing I did do tin in Anyfing Fucking. GOes.

I lynch the shit out of him to get him out of the way before he pegs my ass.

You know NOTHING of the AP-me dynamic.
I know everything.

[mastin2]

Hi mastin
Tell me your read on Cephrir

Townish, so not touching him for a day or two, minimum.

[mastin2]

If AP wasn't scummy, how did solar wind catch him?

With a shit case that if AP were with a town role proper would've left AP MISLYNCHED PROPER.

[mastin2]

What if, ffery and f16 collectively are better at reading AP than you are? Now?

Depends on the game. I have had some very bad days.

For THIS game, though?

FUCK no.

Do you think it's "just luck" they caught 3rd party AP?

Explicitly so, yes.

[mastin2]

how often do you think ffery catches scum by just luck? how often do you think f16 catches scum by just luck? do you think I catch scum by just luck too?

No more nor less than any other player in general.

But completely irrelevant, because AP wasn't scum.
"Catching" him is entirely luck because he was playing as if town, thus, were he town would've been a mislynch.
He is no scumlynch; he was a scumDRIVEN lynch.

[mastin2]

but fferyslot isnt scum

Yes they are; they've been in my townlist for ages.

It's IMPERIUM that isn't.

[mastin2]

Zzzx is a good choice. But in capcom he was town.

I've explicitly told people MULTIPLE TIMES that ZX is town.
100% town.

DO NOT VIG ZX.

[mastin2]

oh hey, cool story, ooba's scum

I thought so near the end of yesterday, too, but his posting today is actually much, much better and makes me like him a lot more.

[mastin2]

Btw, not a dayvig threat. I'm removing either mask or PV. Not too sure about you, would rather have town collectively decide or lynch

Of the two, I have a townread on Mask and a nullread on PV, sooooooooooooooooooooo, PV over Mask.

[mastin2]

The whole thing about playing 100% pro-town isn't gonna serve that end because you're gonna attract attention from scum. If you're bulletproof, and scum can't night-kill you, then they're gonna push your lynch.

And guess what?

It only takes one.
ONE.
Lynch on scum.
For you to then become conftown.
How do you get that lynch on scum?
By scumhunting and using your charisma, of which AP has plenty.
Bam.

I know my theory.
That's kind-of my thing.
Dead serious.

SK-like roles with BP playing as anything other than town are fucking morons.
Because as a serial killer who is bulletproof, you WANT the scum antagonizing you because you WANT one of them to flip scum (heck, you don't even need it to be via lynch--you're a damn serial killer; just "vig" the scum and if there's no vig in the game you might be able to claim vig for further towncred, having shot scum!), because scum pushing you and flipping scum = you were either being hardcore bussed or "aren't scum" = your survival chances increase exponentially.

Simple.

Here's the folks on the lynch: Ace, Magua, ooba, Vezok, Rach, Ankamius, TSO, Skybird, Heartless, Imperium, and The Mask.

And on the wagon, literally the only players I think are town are Magua, Heartless, and Mask. Ace is iffy at best, ooba is 50/50, Vezok is 60/40 town/scum, TSO is 50/50, then you have Rach (scum), Ankamius (40/60 town/scum), Skybird (scum), and Imperium (scum).

So let's review. Three town.
Four iffy players.
And four players I scumread. (Okay, 3.5.)

Scum.
Driven.

If the lynch was "scumdriven," then you're saying that Rach/Ankamius/TSO is scum (since those votes, along with the absence of your vote on a viable counter-wagon, were the main votes that made AP's lynch).

Read my fucking posts not the damn mod's when saying this shit.
I DID vote the counterwagon of beastcharizard but hopped off because nobody was helping me and I thought beast was town anyway, so I gave up on getting a counterwagon going and focused on dismantling the existing wagon, aiming for a no-lynch over a townlynch.

But yes. Not all three as scum, but a minimum of one if not two as scum in the three.

Because to me, it says you didn't actually want to create another option to AP, and that's scummy as fuck, given your strongly worded defense.

Damn fucking straight I didn't create another option to AP. Beast was the only other one there, and I was townreading him increasingly strongly. I didn't want to wagon him and only wanted him dead to save AP,

and even then

, with my fucking vote there, at deadline, nobody was joining, nobody was helping me out there.

So what do I do?
Not liking the beast lynch, but HATING the AP lynch?
I adovcate a fucking no-lynch because FUCK info-lynches-for-the-sake-of-having-a-lynch.
They cause more damage than good.

[mastin2]

I am utterly sick of mastin trying to justify being wrong. I thought I wouldn't be, but I so am.

zVedcuae I

WASN"T

WAONG.

So don't like it?
DOn't fucking say I was wrong.

I was right.
AP was town.
Lynch was scumdriven.

[mastin2]

Mastin, why is Ooba so low on your list?

Because his posting got worse and worse on D1, and I hated.

Hated

.
His presence on the AP wagon.

His early D1 play looked town, and his D2 posting is much better, but he's still not someone I'm that enthusiastic about calling town.

[mastin2]

(assuming a single group scum faction game, which is what Anti is telling me to assume until proven otherwise).

No assumption needed.

I told my masonry this during the night, but the game's explicitly single-ball. I'd tell you why, but scum might get caught if I don't, sooooooooooooooooooo, not telling.

[mastin2]

Mastin, priding yourself on knowing theory doesn't mean you're right on everything theory.

Oh, I'm not perfect on theory.
In particular, I'm rather prone to derping up my math, and making dumb miscalculations when I forget certain specifics. (e.g. forgetting that in vengeful, the vengeful doesn't get a shot in 3p lylo, which my gamebreaking plan relied on. )
I am, however, right.
I KNOW my theory.
It's my thing.
People consult with me on it still. People still respect me on it. People have, for two damn years, in spite of me technically not winning the scummy yet, referred to me as Professor Mafia because of it. Because theory is what I DO.

I'll fully admit to being a shit player.
I will own up to it.
Admit my mistakes upfront.
The reputation I have as having a massive ego and being incredibly arrogant is just as much fake as my reputation for walling: not without basis in reality, but VASTLY exaggerated; I know I suck.

But theory? Theory is the one.
ONE.
Thing I pride myself on.

[mastin2]

Mastin, what are some of your games as scum?

I don't have any.

"Uhhh..."

Yeah, I effectively don't have any.
2014 was the year of the town role PM.
2015 has had a scumgame break the solid streak (I believe of 35 games IN A ROW as town), but that was replacing in to lylo, after all the work had already been done; all I had to do was to wait two or so days for town to vote town to win that game. So it doesn't count. You have to go back further.
Xmen doesn't count because I didn't play there.
171 doesn't count because I didn't truly play there.
What's that leave?

L4D, Attack on Titan, Paranoia (bonus points for playing scum amongst the scum, via that game's mechanic), maybe one other I can't recall off the top of my head, but that's pretty much it.
And know when those games were?
Oh, about this time last year.
Know when those 35 towngames were?
From then onward.

I repeat. I have no scumgame that you can use as being a scumgame. My play has just changed too much since then. There's some basic similarities, sure, yeah, but it's so foreign that you'd be better off flipping a coin than getting a read on me from my past games.

[mastin2]

I wonder if AP was silenced yesterday. That could explain why he went around posting everywhere else and seemingly ignored us. I'd think he'd have voted as a means of communication though.

Quite possible. (This, incidentally, is why I hate the silencer role with a passion. *grumble, grumble, stillbitteraboutinvitational15, gripe, gripe*.)

It also

exponentially

increases the chance of AP being a scumdriven wagon.
Why?

Simple.

Because if the scum silenced AP, then they knew HE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DEFEND HIMSELF, thus, a mislynch on him would be possible,

especially

to those pointing out his activity elsewhere on the site.

Vindication tastes so sweet.

[mastin2]

UNVOTE:
Wow. Looking at other people to lynch now.

How about you?

[mastin2]

AngryPidgeon (11): theaceofspades, Magua, ooba, Vezokpiraka, Rachmarie, Ankamius, TSO, Skybird, Heartless, Imperium, The Mask
beastcharizard (5): The Mask, Solar Wind, FourTrouble, Xombie, Cephrir
Theaceofspades (2): AngryPidgeon, ZZZX
RachMarie (2): PeregrineV, Farside22
FourTrouble (2): Aeronaut
Cephrir (1): TiphaineDeath
Imperium (1): Mastin2
Skybird (0): beastcharizard

Let's take a look at the reasons to be on the wagon, 'kay?

Spoiler: Theace

And i'm really not a fan of AP right now (sorry friend. i like you)

idk what "you have people talking about AP " but for me it was mostly about 1058. Plus i totally disagree with his reads on farside and MS. And i don't really see how he could have those opinions

Elaborated upon here:

Because i don't see MS as scum at all. He's among my strongest townreads. And a scumread on him is a reach imo. Sometimes when i disagree, i can understand why someone would think something, even if i don't. IN this case, i don't see how he could even entertain MS being scum when he looks so town to me. The same true of farside. "taking it out" idk what that means. You either want my read or don't.
1058 bothers me because swearing suddenly, calling yourself a mislynch and not addressing a read on yourself other than to say it's bad together don't seem townie.

I'll do this now. Cause i thought I already did
VOTE: AP

...With the vote.

I'm not going to unvote AP. Because i don't really have much of a scumread on anyone else.

Side-note, ace is looking awful lurky with this iso. And I'm putting this outside the spoiler to emphasize it:

you guys post too much. on page 89. Would vote mastin or beast or stay on AP now.

Will read isos

for reasons

once i finish the thread.

Read that statement again for a sec and tell me what you're seeing in it. 'Cause to me, unless I'm crazy, that's looking for evidence to fit the read.

Spoiler: Ace, resumed

i'm here. what's cracking? i'd still lynch mastin

and AP too.

Elaborated on later, here:

mastin for the following reasons.
I'm starting to always scumread unprompted insistent townclaim. It's starting to bother me because i dont see from town very often. His naked vote on me. The repeated "i have no investment in content or this game" all of these things give me scumvibes. I've gotten bored with AP because he hasnt posted. But what i said at the time still holds true. So i'm still down with lynching him.

That's literally it. In fact, that's literally the entirety of ace's contributions to the game, aside from:

-Claiming doublevoter, unprompted,
-Scumreading me,
-Townreading MS (I think), FourTrouble, Vezok, Bitmap, Rach (see below), House, Imperium, and Solar Wind,
-Interacting with Rach,
-Telling Blonde not to do something,
-And defending Ankamius.

This is literally the only things he's done. If not for his claim, I'd see him as definite scum. With the claim, he's still hovering around the scum pile somewhere.

Magua:

Explicitly to achieve a deadline lynch; no suspicion attached. (Town.)

Spoiler: ooba

Townish

1. Angrypidgeon - I hope he's town. Like his tone. Also not sure where he's going with the house push - but not sure if scum would choose to push that avenue right now. High level scum players might - so I'm not sure.

Also, the fact that we're opposed on some critical reads {TD, Brantz, AP} on scum\town ping my scumdar.

Unvote. Vote: FourTrouble

This is in reference to FourTrouble having AP as a scumread, so ooba's still townreading AP at this point.

Mild town for reasons:
- AP (Just the various positions taken - but paranoid about this slot - since he could very easily be part of the scum group below - Pere\him probably not scum together based on above post)
Scum group I can see: {Rach, FT, Cephrir, ZZZX or Pere}

Unvote. Vote: Rach

Still town, aside from paranoia.

Ooba, you are voting my strongest townread in the game: one who I'll never consider lynching. Me and FT played together offsite for years and know each other probably better than we know anyone on mafiascum. Where we played, deadline was around 48-72 hours. When playing with normal two-week deadlines on mafiascum, people who haven't played here a lot get impatient and burned out. FT flaked from the last two games we hydra'd together. I'm unsurprised that he disappeared as the game dragged on and on for three weeks now. It fits with his play and isn't scummy for him.

Fine - I will sheep you on this. I think this is common ground for both of us:

Unvote. Vote: AngryPidgeon.

Yet here, he votes AP. If it were simple sheeping, that'd be one thing, but he claims it's common ground.
Why the reversal?

In ooba's credit, he did move off of AP (unlike Ace), and onto Rach, but moved back on, and justifies it here:

UNVOTE:
Sorry guys. Both heads have serious reservations about this wagon and we're reconsidering. I just don't feel the scumvibes from AP overall at this point. Ffery feels the same way.

Even I have reservations against AP, but at some point you got to compromise\choose. Apart from a very few slots {FT, Pere, ZZZX} - most slots have done something that's given me a brief town ping at times.
The reason you're pushing heartless is bad. They've barely been in the game. Even otherwise, I'm leaning town on that slot. I thought Vyse-scum wouldn't have been as useless as he was - and if Vyse scum actually went the 'Oh - I'm going to post notes.' followed by 'Sorry. Don't have time' - that's a very dick move to his replacement.

...Where he, incidentally, is trying to convince the very person he was originally sheeping.

But I'm with you when you say AP might be a bad lynch. His BP claim + posting all seemed to have a town vibe.
Maybe going after one of the lurkers is the best strategy like you mention - but you might be barking up the wrong tree with heartless.
Others:
- I thought scum-beast would have been more active - but I don't like how he's hiding behind a role ('Oh I'm voteless - I cannot be scum'). Still would lean town.
- I'm not sure about ace's wagon stalling - is it because town correctly read him as town? Or did his buddies decide it could be avoided? I would still say town.
- Pere, ZZZX could be scum
- Aeroloft could be scum
- Skybird leaning more town than scum. Similar to 'The Mask'

This one I'm putting out of the spoiler.

Hey.
Hey, FourTrouble.

(It was you, right?)

Know that thing you accused me of doing?
Of saying AP was a bad lynch yet doing nothing to stop it?

This? THIS is a player ACTUALLY doing that. His only other AP post is this,

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that AP most probably will flip town. But fuck it if I'm going to start D2 at the same place with Solar Wind dead.

...But in his credit?
He does call Ace out on the whole lurking-until-wagon-dies-down-and-suddenly-reappearing-near-deadline thing.

Overall impression on ooba is...extremely mixed. Vaguely scummy, but less so than ace by a significant margin.

Spoiler: Vezok

AP is town. I'm glad he came back.

I haven't been able to get a read on Vezok; he's been null. But overall, I'd lean more town than not; I like the stuff he's doing here. Especially this:

[-snip-]

So we shouldn't read AP as town because all he did may be faked? Then how can we read AP?

His vote on AP was, rather implicitly, deadline.

There's not much there, but overall, nulltown.

On Rach, I'll just say that yes, I'm scumreading her, I don't like her interactions with ANY of the other players, and it just doesn't feel town.

Still sorting out Due to harder for me to sort, or lack of presence
PeregrineV conf bias/not much to go on
Angrypidgeon This bothers me I want a better read on him bah I know he was V/LA waiting to see if he catches up and starts doing the flamboyance of his normal towny self

And then a vote on AP near deadline. That's really it.

I'll also start out by saying that I'm really not liking Ankamius, either. The Rach read, the Imperium read, lots of stuff. There's this, though,

Spoiler: Ankamius

Town:
Imperium
RachMarie
T S O
Conflicted (or just weak read either way):
AngryPidgeon (town)
Ooba (town)
Skybird (scum)
TiphaineDeath (town)

Scum:
Aeronaut
PeregrineV

Unsorted:
Theaceofspades
Yes, ace is still in my unsorted list because I couldn't get anything from his posts.

...I feel this is going to be super-important with an extra flip or two but can't be of much use right now.

Is there an abridged version of the AP case? Assume I haven't played with AP before (false, but the two games wee played together don't count much

Asks about AP.

AngryPidgeon

(5): theaceofspades,

Magua

,

Imperium

,

ooba

,

Vezokpiraka

,

Rachmarie

Theaceofspades (3):

AngryPidgeon

,

xombie

,

ZZZX

beastcharizard

(3):

Skybird

,

Cephrir

,

The Mask

RachMarie

(2):

PeregrineV

,

Farside22

TiphaineDeath

(2):

Mastin2

,

TSO

Cephrir

(2):

TiphaineDeath

,

FourTrouble

FourTrouble

(2):

Aeronaut

Skybird

(0):

beastcharizard

First thought is that I'm clearly very wrong about a bunch of people. The biggest wagon is on a townread, but it's also fueled by most of my strong town reads. Considering that two of my biggest scumreads are on the one read that isn't town, that nudges towards town too. Virtually all my nullscum reads are voting the last nullscum read, which already says to me that at least half of them are town.
I'm not touching ace. AngryPidgeon is a lower townread with that wagon and the rest of the wagon is awful. I'm also not touching RachMarie. I still remember how I got to that read in the first place and I don't believe there's a high chance of me being wrong on her alignment this game.
All the orange names are iffy. There's something very much fucked about my reads on the orange group and I'd rather figure that out for myself before testing to see if they're true, but I'd be fine with offing one of them now if it became the predominant choice since it would help focus my reads on them overall in the right direction.
I'll refocus my reads once we have a flip, but right now here's what I'm thinking of:
{Beastcharizard, Cephrir, SkyBird, The Mask} <- at least half town. All of these reads have to be refined a bit.
{Magua, Imperium, Vezokpiraka, RachMarie} <- If AngryPidgeon is town, I'm likely wrong on at least one of them. If AngryPidgeon is scum, then I'm likely not going to revisit any of them for a long time.
{Aeronaut, Mastin2, PeregrineV, Xombie, ZZZX} <- I'm confident I'm starting to head towards the right direction, at least. I'd be completely happy to focus here tomorrow.
{theaceofspades} <- If AngryPidgeon flips town, he's more town.
VOTE: AngryPidgeon

This, this, I absolutely, absolutely HATED.

So overall impression: not impressed, but I want to give him a couple of days, because with a couple of additional flips, it'll be much easier to read him.

I don't really feel like sorting TSO today, and want to leave him for tomorrow. Relevant points are that he didn't like PV as a lynch, but was doing so in a manner I can easily see from town, and that he voted AP basically to get a lynch in.

Then we come to Skybird. #1 scumread for me right now. ("Not Imperium?" No, not Imperium. Imperium's not a townread, and is still lingering near the scumpile, but Nacho DID reach out to me so I'm giving the read some extra time.) I absolutely hate Skybird's interactions with other players. Skybird's suspicions also don't match up that well to words. Also,

Man this thread is moving fast. I could agree to a ZZZX lynch. PV feels more town to me than scum. That's based on the last game we were in together. He sounds like he did in that game and he was town.

^Just saying.

Spoiler: Skybird

I want to add TSO and AP to my town list. These are both gut feelings after reading their ISO's.

AP is town. Reinforced here:

AP and TSO give me slight town vibes when I read their ISOs. As I mentioned in 2019, this is more a gut read than anything else.

Because I want to see us lynch someone, I'm going to move my vote.
VOTE: AP

And not a lick of a mention of feelings about AP. Just "we're gonna lynch him".

The others will have to wait.
But you get the idea.
Brief summary of them, though, Heartless is town and did it to get a lynch; Mask is probably town, Imperium see Skybird bit.

[mastin2]

Sadface that Mastin ignored Nacho.

Actually, I didn't. It bumped you up from surefire scum to hovering around the scumline. It's not enough to make you town. It was enough for me to say, I'm giving you more time.

[mastin2]

It's so nice that Mastin is willing to answer that question so we can determine if someone is lying. Much pro-town much wow.

As far as I know, brambles are not an effect of anything that are involved with my activities. I can double-check if you'd like, but decently sure it's not on my end.

[mastin2]

Mastin, if I am such a scum, why would I make this post in the last hours of day 1? I volunteered to be the day one lynch so we wouldn't have a no lynch.

Several of you have read me as scum. Can you flashwagon me? Town needs a flip.

Because you knew it would never happen, it was not viable, and especially without scumbuddies supporting it, would never happen? It's a shot for cheap towncred. Knowing AP would flip town (well, "knowing"), the act of offering yourself up would look town.

But there was zero follow-through.
No self-vote.
No attempt to lynch yourself.

You're speaking to the person who named the Mastin Gambit, of self-voting to save the life of another player and advocating your own death. I know what it looks like. And what you did was like my Paranoia halfhearted mimicry of it: going through the motions, but being insincere about it.

[mastin2]

Holy crap Mastin, that analysis was obnoxious. Everyone who called AP town is town and everyone who called him scum is scum? Get outta here.

Nope! Read it again.

[mastin2]

fuck if i know i hope they get vigged: ZZZX

When I say ZX is town.
I mean ZX is town.

Trust me on that.

Also, beast's probtown too.

[mastin2]

vote xombie

Xombie is also town. Don't touch him, either.

[mastin2]

Okay. Dram just told me that the brambles aren't due to us.
So.
He must be telling the truth about targetting Mastin.

I repeat, brambles aren't due to me. Not as far as I can tell. It

could

theoretically be possible I suppose due to the nature of why I asked people NOT to target me, but it's literally impossible for me to explain without me outting why I asked people not to target me.

And, well. Don't give a damn if it could theoretically catch lying scum; trust me, keeping this under wraps is more valuable.

[mastin2]

Also, beast's probtown too.

Is this based on Sabotage? I'm going to read the game at some point to figure out why you and Nacho have opposing views of Beast's alignment there.

General beast knowledge, having a fair grasp of how he works, AND on top of it all the way the wagon formed on him near the end of D1.

I said I got sabo-vibes from the D1 wagon. Sabo vibes = our deadline lynch options are on town. AP as town (at the very least as far as VCA is concerned), beast as town, scum wanting either lynched but not caring which.