In the Court of the Gods (Game Over)

[DTMaster]

"enters" I'll provide my reads in the next couple of days.

[DTMaster]

Pregame notes:
1. Out of all the gods, the god of rewards is the most dangerous if DGB is scum (endgame worthy). I would heavily montior DGB's actions should any of her recpients recieve the double voting power flips scum. Just a side note while playing the game if DGB is scum.

2. If Fishyfish was scum I'd just publically shorten the deadlines because 72 hour days just cripple town. He's confirmed scumz, but that doesn't matter since he's immortal. He just needs to noise it up to win and that's very easy as a god. Considering that he can use his ability every day would confirm him in itself.

Analysis:
1. Lovely, page 1 and NS is acting phunny. If there is a scum gambit, it'd see NS using this as noise (lol God hunting instead of priest-scum hunting) inducing. Like in the pregame notes, look at the interactions.

2. I dislike Hito's prioirties on god hunting. Mainly because in order of town to win, they should look for the priest-scums who'd know who's scum and work back from there. If we know who God scum is, then we can't lynch the man. We still need to look within the priest order to hunt for scumz. Remember: people in the order of X god aren't all auto scum with him >< (see front page). Hito-scum points.

3. Page 2 and I'm a bit tired of Andrus' posts. It's still early so I'm being lenient here.

4. I agree with the LLD read simply because it's a lot of effort to prove a logical fallicy wrong. Honestly, scum wouldn't care so much. It's a good source of theory noise that's been debunked.

5. Somehow people forgot that to beat scum-god they should lynch the scum-priests, not the town-guy who may confirm who the scum god is. Considering that we "can't do anything" from this discovery we just deligate noise back to the God. And trust me, you can generate a ton of noise and drown out everyone once you are outed as scum (OoT).

6. I'm disliking Andrus for the same reasons as my 2,5.

7. The manhimself :S. The hell? What's with this train of thought. Out of all of them I disike the Andrus/Themanhimself over hito (hito had some better posts at this point)

Dude, Jack-scum counter claiming an immortal god is kinda a stupid theory lol since it nets Jack-scum a total of 0 mislynches.

FYI: If Jack is lying, the motivation doesn't make sense for scum-Jack. TBH, I could totally see a town-Jack lying gambit happening here (I'd totally do it for reactions).

Break time Page 7

[DTMaster]

Page 8
1. I got a clearer picture of the Jack scum theory now. Meh, I still think Jack-scum motivation would need to be heavily stupid induced as seen above.

2. B-b-but I lie as town for gambit reasons. :< I'm sad that we have some pure absoluters. I find the truth to be effective as scum, and lying effective as town. Tricky reading, is triiiiickkky :p (Read OoT Mafia for that) / fluff @ theman

3. I like LLD's arguments still. It's giving me town reads between Equinox and LLD over their Jack case/defence arguments. Themanhimself's counter point is less impressive since LLD has more rounded points, while the TMH is repeating a lot of his previous arguments. He's not specific to his arguments (i.e. THIS IS JUST SCUMMY versus LLD's THIS ACTION WAS DONE LIKE THIS SO IT'S SCUMMY). I would rank LLD above TMH in terms of town read.

4. Huh how is lynching 1 scum and having a 4 NK turn over in LoTR mafia a trade off? If town mislynched wouldn't there be 4 kills during the night anyways? I'm pretty sure that a bullet proof role cop isn't a multi vengeful townie/SS. Andrus your explaination of the trade off is literally off. IBH, confirming the gods just reads as a lazy justification of a mislynch.

I'd rather have someone mislynched because we thought he was scum, rather then go: "oops, well now we know the unkillable guy is scum. It was worth it lololol".

5. I find NS's scum read on page 8 quite underwhelming considering both players haven't post much v.V.; Equinox confirms my earlier town read with this.

You can't judge people on lurking attacks if they didn't post on the site in the time of absense. Now if you did a post search and found they're activly lurking and avoiding the game on purpose THAT'S A CLEAR CUT SCUM ARGUMENT

.

It's the hyper activity man. It's been like 2 days (Zang posted on the 31, he doesn't post on the 1st and its lurking. Then he posts on the 2nd. Wooooo 1 day absense with 1 post in an another ongoing game.) Same with Spy. Way to discredit yourself NS.

6. Hmm, you know something I'm getting a hint of frustration from TMH. Something bugs me since towneis are more emotional in their cases since their more emotionally invested in being right.

7. Feysal page 9: why would Jack inform NS of impending gambit if one of the ideas was to generate reads from the gods (e.g. Jack trying to read gods and go from there). :s. If Jack trusted NS, I'd find that oddly supicious considering that we're starting out with the assumption that one of the gods is scum AND it's random. So as townies, YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO GIVE A CLEAR to A POTENTIAL SCUM SUSPECT right off the bat.

I think though we're reaching a breaking point of theory crafting, and not enough scum/town attacking.

8. Huh, isn't OMGUS (Page 9) saying that you don't have a case on Jack NS? OMGUS doesn't occur in a counter vote

if you have a scum case you know

. The fact that you disregarded your vote on Jack as inconcequential is suuuuuuupppppeeeeeeerrrr supicious.

At the moment I'd be willing to lynch Andrus. I'd totally god kill NS. I'd consider investigating TMH since his emotional play makes my gut alarm saying something. I want to read more SPY stories. I also have got a bad gut vibe from Fey from his page 9 wall and would consider looking there.

[DTMaster]

Meh why wait

Daykill Andrus

.

[DTMaster]

NS I have important information to give to you via PM later. I'll relay it to you with specific instructions.

[DTMaster]

To anyone wondering wtf I'm doing since I called NS scum: I want to establish a network of within my group using key words. Aside from my in game analysis I want to relay private information within my priest group. But NS is the total buffer. So I will ask in thread if the person in thread a few key words that will be important. If they do not relay the correct key words then I know NS is scum obv course. There's no guarentee for this to work, but it'll give me a chance if NS is town to give words during night and such like a super neighbourhood.

[DTMaster]

I've given a piece of information to someone special via NS via QT. Before the lynch hits I would like for him to claim my special word and the target I sent to them as a change to the message I sent in QT assuming NS is scumbag. I've taken to account NS-scum, thus I reveal in thread now that I've claimed to NS and claimed my role to the specific person.

[DTMaster]

Oh you don't need to say the special word anymore, I just missed that (going off some information I gathered earlier). However Jack's concerns discussed via NS via QT should be revealed tonight. Should I die I would like NS to quote the main components of my QT to everyone under him and post it in thread. It'll be revealed what my uber awesome plan is :3 :3 :3

[DTMaster]

1. Everyone should take my lead and do inter player talking via their Gods to first determine scum gods, and secondly to pass information along. However Andrus was the original proprietor, and I support this endeavor. It doesn't have to be role info, just thoughts, and such. I find that mason linkage to be more town motivated then scum motivated.

2. I also think Jack is town due to QT talk. I'll claim Day 2 or NS will claim for me day 2. The jist of the argument is: Jack corrected me logically that NS is unconfirmed and can modify information as he sees fit if I pass it along the NS wire. NS passed this onto me. NS actually passed this on to me. New info FTW. :p

3. You know

I don't understand the Tajo wagon

. DGB's question is theory craft, not scum hunting. Anyone can argue for that question. It reminds me of Pom's theory crafting questions as scum. All fluff. Lots of debate. No actual discussion. I think the entire thing is super weak (as of page 20).

[DTMaster]

Also my earlier stuffs:

1. I've been mulling over the whole Jack/Theman debate, the everyone is town in this debacule is kind of throwing me off. I find myself agreeing with this assessment right here because I could see scum-Jack caving in to the whole "yes I gambited lulz" defences. But he didn't, and is sticking to the guns. I wouldn't mind a vig resolution in this angle, but there needs to be more info outside the Jack vs NS/Theman debate. It's stalling out.

Plus in Feysal's analysis

there's very little wagonining analysis going on

on Jacks end or anyone for that matter for the gambit to be sucessful. I'm a bit saddened at the fact that the Pro-Jack/Jack people aren't doing this. Gut sez: theory noise is being produced and we might have a scum buddying wtih Jack (assuming Jack-town).

2. tajo has very weak answers to the accusations. I wouldn't mind a shot that direction.

3. I can

confirm that the QT website autosigns your name from your last login if you choose that option. If I'm not at home I do have to type my name. But I made a QT account so it autosigns me as DTMaster

. It makes even more sense, contrary to page 10 if Anonscum was auto signed at home and he typed "tajo" at work (not the other way around unless he has a computer to use at work and lots of down time). Any of these attacks are quite arbutrary.

4. Huh, this post while awesome in town reads also has a noisy question by Mina. We know that the distrubution of the evil priests are randomly set (therefore we could have anywhere from all of the scum being in one priest hood to all seperated out). LLD did the maths for a specific set, but if its all RNG that means we

can't establish a pattern

based on scum flips and what group they are in.

Likewise, we know that scum is in 1 faction (I think, the whole one god and evil priest flavour suggests so) and guestimate that out of 15 players we are probably dealing with 3-4 evil priests as gods are unlynchable. We must account though that while the gods have voting power, we need to take out the priest to endgame the scum faction.

In terms of vote control that means scum always has +1, and town always has +2 for votes. In terms of factional wins, in order to balance this (because technically town always has the majority vote or equal to scum) the number priests is the threshold number rather then the number of votes (otherwise scum couldn't win by vote threshold if 1 member gets lynched).

[DTMaster]

1. Theman Can you be more specific outside of gut?

2. To clarify something: I find Tajo's initial response to be weak in regards to the name thing. However! He's improved a lot since that initial read due to his

motive hunting

. I find that to be quite indicative of town. Here and here are clear arguments, DGB scum motives, questioning of DGB town motives of methods, and his own reasoning.

Also this idea here is WRONG because TOWN PLAYERS ALSO HAS A SENSE OF SURVIVAL. Particularity, PRs display more defensiveness due to the fact that they internally DON'T WANT TO BE LYNCHED or NKED. Town PRs, while have the number advantage if they do die, also COULD BE RELUCTANT TO DIE. Hence if DGB-scum is there, she can see WHO THE PRS ARE WITHIN HER PRIESTHOOD. So that issue about people wanting to live, yeah it applies to TOWN AS WELL. Town's are more likely to be RISKIER, but THEY STILL WANT TO LYNCH THEIR SCUM TARGET and NOT BE LYNCHED. /caps defence

Though, due to the debate, I'm getting the town on town vibe. However, arguing with DGB doesn't SOLVE A THING. Tajo should be more focused on priests, not gods.

3. I read Andrus' post. I don't mind since it's good, but his over pro-DGB stance is suuuuppppppppeeer sketchy. I'd at least keep some suspicion on DGB. You know. The whole "I know DGB is town thing" reads as "I know DGB is town is because I know who the scumz are". I'd still consider shooting you and suffer through DGB RAGE INDUCED VENGEANCE just to quell this paranoia.

In all of this if Tajo flips town (which I feel like it) I would re-examine my reads. Especially I would re-examine Feysal since I'm getting some weird scum vibes that direction. I'll do an Iso reread to make sure. (I'd also consider the KittyKat DRK)

4. DGB it's possible, quite possible that due to the back and forth that DGB/Tajo became a tunnel fest of frustration. If we're talking about scum strategics, I'm pretty sure that Tajo-scum has better things to do other then rage an all out God war when he knows he can't even lynch the DGB. :s.

5. Fishy is sitting on the fence about tajo here This is awful analysis of Tajo that both supports him and supports the lynch.

On the tajo-me link; again,

I can see where DGB is coming from, but I disagree with the sense of the conclusion. I suppose this is one to argue if and when tajo flips scum.

See bold. Tajo is not the droid we are looking for. I suggest a trio of Feysal and DRK. Other good slots are Crymeariver.

Break time. Fishy's post discredits this wagon by a ton. I'd argue that the hyper-aggressiveness is blinding the town.



4.

[DTMaster]

You know as fishy-fishy scum god, I would cause deadline lynches all over the place (it's midterm season, good way to capitalize on inactivity). Just saying you know. The only reason why you wouldn't do that is if the scum team is that bad/lurky/etc.

[DTMaster]

Aside: Benmage's questioning on Andrus is a little off, due to the DGB town read. I don't know, it's not really logical if you contrasted these posts:

Andrius :I've already offered to claim to my Goddess.
Benmage: Why?
Benmage: I think DGb is town.
Benmage: But do you have any idea if you'd be claiming to the scum god or not?

The issue is resolved with a town read. The flow from questioning Andruis and declaring DGB makes be regard the first catch up post to be fluffy. It's not something you can draw alignment from if you already have a read on DGB (the reason was given).

The whole exchange was funny.

Also Feysal's comments about his vote after Tajo pointing it out is suuuuupppperrr bad on Feysal. Plus when Feysel does vote it's on a "meh read". The whole "Benmage is also not voting" reads as deflection. He also fails to comment on LLD/Fishy as he calls it "no big deal". I'd be miffed, but more ok with "no reads". I'd rather have "I think this". There's a bunch of information for the sake of information here, and nothing insightful. I'd be leaning scum since this contributes to the whole: "posting for the sake of posting argument".

I also note that Feysal did quote Tajo's argument with his post, and stated that his vote and Benmage's weren't being used. Did Tajo force a Feysal to vote? I think so.

Unvote, Vote Feysal

Sleep time, superior wagon lies here.

[DTMaster]

I'm still bothered by the Tajo case. You know, considering that he's attacking people who's scummy (and he attacked DRK for buddying him rather then go for the lurker case) I don't support this wagon. I mean, he's doing

everything right by scum hunting while defending

. People need to stop reading the DGB issue and start reading his other cases.

[DTMaster]

Immediate responses
1. Spy/Hito is the hope diamond the Crymearivier slot? My view on that slot is: I just can't get a read on that darn slot since there hasn't been a substantial post. I just want to kill it with fire due to paranoia. If it is that slot, I'm not sure how you guys can call a scum read off nothing. It's more like: there's no read this is suuuper sketchy. I prefer having more defined reads.

2. Benmage. So it's illogical for someone to trust a town read on the fact that you could be wrong? That applies to every read though. Oddly enough during this post you missed Andruis' whole masonry speech. Were you supporting that Andruis could be buddying DGB (pre-town read)?

3. Benmage, your statement about "skill level" and scumminess makes no sense. There's no co-relation with skill level and alignment, only with our persecution of that player. If someone is a bad player, that doesn't make them scum. This argument is super weak and lacks the normal critical thought that I've come to know the Benmage from before.

Bad players often look scummy. They aren't always scum.

4. Corvuis, I don't mind the theory. I expect though once you read through everyone you apply it (spec DRK since that's your focus). Prepare your meta references for comparisons though.

Also the keywords will be obvious post-Death me or when I choose to claim it.

Also I assume that you didn't read most of my posts considering that Tajo defense and Feysal attacks are the core to my posts. I dislike how you narrowed down on my Fishy Fish comments specifically in the midst of my capslock induced rage, only if you did read my other posts.

5. DRK I'm a bit sad that all you took out of my reads was a town-read on me. I didn't get any comments from youuuuu agreeing/disagreeing/etc.

6. You know that feeling when you get when your read might be wrong. I read Feysal's response to Mina. A few things stood up

a. Feysal commented that he wanted to keep a vote on record. This to me is quite pro-town for VC analysis.
b. The talk about "retrospective view on his actions" is the weird thing. You know I could totally see the view where scum is admitting to his faults, or a player trying to improve his over all game play.
c. The meta reference is a critical approach to look at Jack
d. But there's too many Null reads and lots of DGB and Andruis ego stroking which is wishy washy after the nth time reading it.

Gah I'm going to take a break and mull things over.

[DTMaster]

1. Corvious: I have an issue with the fishy response because you failed to comment on anything else. Like I said since you've just replaced in I'd suspect you read my 2 posts at the top of the page from where you replaced in, rather then just read me and particularly focused on my one post. You've gave an impression that you skimmed my posts by making an opinion of me. Hence why I mentioned the above scenario, and directed you to comment on my full cases.

2. In terms of volume, you must account that I'm a replacement like yourself.

3.
I see that DGB's actions in the QTs confirmed by the priesthood supports a town-DGB read. Likewise the discussion in my QT support a NS town read. The only, only reason why I would give a ~10% chance that fishy could be town and my DGB read is wrong is that Fishy by his role to shorten the deadline hasn't been used. So since my pre-game notes, the possibly of DGB-scum diminished due to other actions and I've assigned her a pro-town stamp. Role merits alone, she can end the game prematurely by granting scum double voting, Action wise, I'd be willing to call her town.

I have no reason to question people for their town reads unless I disagree with it.

I am more interested in finding scum reads and advancing my cases

. If I had to question everyone who called me town I would question the entire town list because they started off with a Zang-scum/lurker read and switched off after my posts. I applaud the critical nature of questioning unreasoned reads but

If you think that DGB is scummy because she didn't give strong reasons you advance the case

.

If you read everything from start to finish you'd see that the initial analysis points to dangerous DGB, not a town/scum DGB call. I later developed a town DGB call.

If I were scum and I had fishy's powers (you are immortal, you safe from all kills and lynches,) I would claim scum and shorten the deadline. Then I would cause chaos by contributing to wagons, I would make people paranoid by hammering my scum buddies if necessary and I would be Socratic. I would play the town with my votes, and making my votes unreadable on which wagons are scum or town, and making people be paranoid about my hammers.

And in all of that since deadlines get shorten to 48 hours after day 1, if I cause no lynch scenarios then I've given my faction free NKs since town failed to lynch in 48 hours. You know that kind of thing. As an immortal scum role, I'd play aggressive. The only scum-god role that would play cautious is DGB and NS' role has no advantages since has scum if he controls the hammer he already has it without freezing the votes.

I'm only stating my opinion in the Fishy-scum scenario. :p Fishy-scum should shorten it if he is scum. It's like total win for scum if he did that. Hell, day 1 could have been over now with Fishy-fish and, and! we'd be floundering around. Since the god who I suspect is scum is not doing the most optimal, easiest, scum ploy

I question my read on Fishy-fish

.

4. I find it odd that DRK is not your focus since you're doing heavy "meta" and "motivation/inflection" analysis in the game. You found a contradiction in DRK's posting and started to develop this into a read (which you argued something a kin to he's being coached). That's odd. Who is your primary scum hunting target, and why? Your biggest "case" is on the guy "who you're not focused on", and "that you defended a great deal about your methods" on.

5. As well, is there more to what you dislike about me in regards to "not addressing DGB"? You imply there is more, but don't mention it outside of your over all town read due to my gambits. I note though that you mentioned multiple gambits, but I've only done 1 which is a day kill.

The other was a soft claim of information to the person who I PMed via NS. I'd hardly call that a gambit. It's ensuring that my hidden suspicions are revealed post-death.

[DTMaster]

Equinox: I see the view point. Hence why I want to mull it over. The weakest points about the vote is that Feysal addressed Tajo about it and voted commenting about Benmage and his lack of vote being bad. It's probably the lack of sleep but I'm going to mull over the points again and do some serious rereading.

[DTMaster]

Lol I've done more in 14 posts then a few players here. I am content :p

[DTMaster]

Due to some QT relays I am leaning towards DRK town. Same conditions apply to Jack. As well LLD is behaving normally relayed via NS. I am awaiting for Benmage.

Le shock! Right? I'm going to maintain my Feysal push. I'm on my phone but expect details soon.

[DTMaster]

Also DGB do not give me BP ;>. I appreciate Equinox's concern but I don't need it. hint hint hint!

[DTMaster]

If you're wondering DGB, I'm night killable so I'm not claiming the BP. I just don't want you to use it on me. It's just a waste of an action for you to protect me. "hint hint hint hint"

If I die tonight, then it's to my advantage that I die tonight. If I don't die tonight, then it's still advantageous to me to continue this game.

If a lynch wagon goes through then I left behind my reads in the QT so NS can follow up. I've left instructions to everyone in my priesthood should I die and should I flip town (If I flip scum, then I just lulzed around in the QT). Thus everyone in the priesthood has my personal reads via NS. They have instructions to claim pre-hammer, and/or post my-death. NS has the masterlist obv course.

[DTMaster]

LLD You do. Think about what I told you. I'll relay it via QT if you don't understand how what I gave you is a scum read.

[DTMaster]

1. I can only say DRK is town due to QT talks. If you want the full reasoning it'll involve a number of networking reveals that I'm not comfortable with at the moment. If DRK gets to L-1 I'll full claim to clear his name because I think the droids aren't here. I am that confident about it.

2. If Benmage is mysteriously dies tonight, I wouldn't mind it :3

3. Corvus I'm a bit confused. You're voting me because you want me to fulfill my gambit over having a scum read? You do realize that you're not scum hunting if that's the only reason for you to take a stance.

Likewise my analysis of DGB and Fishy early on was based on what scum would do with their roles. I outlined what I would do as Fishy-scum, and explained how Fishy isn't playing to that. LLD countered it, but I find the chaos resulting from the short deadlines to be more valuable then hiding in the shadows. If your only qualms is my god reads you do realize that my focus is on finding priest scums. And your lack of comments on that and specific cherry picking about my god cases make me question your motive. Are you in this to lynch scum? Or are you just contributing thin air via the god talk.

Also I've released information via the QT so that I can personally assess the players in my priesthoods. Out of all of them Jack and DRK demonstrated townie actions in response to my QT talks. LLD is normal, and is demonstrating her usual OoT Mafia meta (so I will arbitrary assign townie). The last one is Benmage who, despite posting in thread has not answered my questions via NS. NS has been unresponsive, but it's been a day so I'll wait.

I am willing to claim full disclosure should either Jack or DRK reach L-1 to defend these town reads. I also note though that you changed from your confused, but townie but maybe scum read to a scum read only after DGB voted me. You did not introduce new information to the case, as no case has been brought up as of yet, but you now resolve that I am scum for what reasons again?

For someone who's working on taking defined stances words like "or", town or scum, that tajo can catch DGB scum but I do not weigh in on what I think about DGB or tajo, oh wait DGB is "kind of like scum",

Finally you ignored many of my questions. Answer nao.

[DTMaster]

I recommend everyone remove their DRK votes.

[DTMaster]

Though I might be assuming too much with NS :S.

[DTMaster]

I did not recieve any BP gifts. I'm telling you that I don't want your BPs. I will confirm that I am not BP and I can die. I do not want your BPs. I thought I was clear on that? I'm softclaiming something else entirely when I say that BPs are not needed on me.

[DTMaster]

I am claiming that I am not DRKs message recipient and obv course you didn't grant me it.

[DTMaster]

DGB if you give me BP I cannot use my death as a data point. Don't interfere by giving me BP. I want scum to try and kill me. Hence why everyone in the priest hood has specific reads and instructions should I die. Also NS has not passed on my messages to LLD at the moment. LLD the other player I talked to you about is my scum read. Also the words that 3 people claimed are meta references to my games played. I gave some people a scum read and I gave them a game I played with that player

the clusterfuck is me hunting scum. DRK should be alive FYI.

[DTMaster]

Disgaea 2, Internal Struggle Mafia and Kingdom Hearts

[DTMaster]

FYI pre replacements though.

[DTMaster]

I have a role that doesn't allow you grant me BP
due to action resolution (I Think). Don't bother protecting me either. It cannot work on me.

[DTMaster]

You know what this is getting out of hand. I'd rather sink my gambit then spiral this out of contol.

I am a Town Hider

What I did was tell LLD that I will be targetting Benmage tonight and the game we did together (expressed by LLD) is Disgaea 2 Mafia. Benmage was a major leader in that game, and used RBT his mason vig buddy to shoot scumz and scummy players. He lead the town to almost victory before dying. Benmage hasn't shown any of his leadership in this game so I had him under suspect.

I told Jack that I will be targetting DRK tonight because I initally had a scum read on him. The game that both DRK and I played in was Kingdom Hearts. The DRK case is obvious.

I also told Benmage that I would be targetting the Crymeariverslot and the game that we played in was Internal (Not internet) Struggle. This is due to the high volume of replacements and I wanted to confirm my neutral read.

I edited this last one out because I didn't think it would be useful BUT NS broke my plan and sent it anyways by not reading the QT and sent the e-mail that had the original message. I told DRK that I was

the town Doctor

and that I would protect

Hito

. Rather then have DRK who was my scum target at the time know that I was a hider, I wanted to see how he would respond to this since I expected the following things:

If any of LLD/Benmage/Jack were scum I would see Benmage/Crymeariviver/DRK dead the next day.
If DRK was scum I would expect DRK to shoot me and try to kill me knowing that I claimed doctor to him.

The message was that someone in the town was bulletproof but only DRK knew that Hito who would be next in line to be shot would be dead. If I fake claimed doctor I would stop a shot on Hito and ensure a shot on me stopping the kill.

Finally my analysis turned up that Jack and DRK are town. DRK called my claim stupid. Had DRK been scum he would have been silent. I quote: DRK hoped that I wasn't the doctor and was lying since I was putting attention on him. Rather then exploit a doctor claim DRK did the opposite and distrusted that my claim was true. Jack claimed the same thing saying that my claims could be modified due to NS.

A last point is

CORVUIS

. I believe that there are 2 scum members within my priest faction because of the incessent mention of gambits. I was waiting to see if someone would slip because has he said scum had day-talk. I fed information to everyone in my priesthood with a claim. I said that they were the only ones who recieved this claim. But out of the town list, Corvuis has an itch about my gambits. Only NS knows that I lied to DRK and that I will only fulfill 1/3 of my hiding targets. If 2 members within my faction or NS leaked this information to the scum faction I would expect that someone would slip about gambits. Therefore I believe that Corvius could be scum because I claimed 4 different actions and 2 different roles within my QT.

Thus I believe I have 2 scum priests in my faction. This goes with my DGB and Fishy fishy analysis. Since NS passed on information back and forth between the priests and recieved these comments this is why the reads that I have are that way.

From IRC mafia hide supercedes all actions and protects/BP granting powers would do nothing to me. If I died and any of the above players did not die then I guarenteed that I caught scum by narrowing down from 3-4/15 to 1/3. Also if I lived and there was no shot last night I cleared all LLD/Benmage/Jack/NS and caught DRK scumz. 4 confirmed in one night. Sweeet, but nooo DRK had to be town and put a wrench in things. Then DGB distracts the town. Then everyone focuses on my town read.

Feysal, Benmage, Corvuis are my biggest reads. I addressed Feysal. I just explained Benmage. Corvuis I added to the case that is him, and why I feel that there is an information leak.

[DTMaster]

POE points to LLD if I believe NS to be town god. As my messages are mediated by him it's possible that the info leak started with NS.

Benmage sorry Disgaea 1

[DTMaster]

Ugh what when I get home I'm linking the game you total liar. You were masons with RBT. I was the town lightning rod.

[DTMaster]

I replaced back in and played the game twice.

[DTMaster]

Also WHAT. I think though that NS screwed up and claimed scum. LLD verify you got Benmage as my target.

[DTMaster]

I wanted to make sure scum knew who'd I was targetting and if I die confirm a player via QT.

[DTMaster]

Mini Theme Archives.

[DTMaster]

Benmage verify that you got my messages.

I just explained Benmage is my scumread LLD. Read my claim
post.

[DTMaster]

Dude you posted from your email not the QT. And now you know that I edited my posts and didn't correct them now? We had this debate already.

[DTMaster]

Oh god did you not fix the messages after you knew I edited it?! Wow.

[DTMaster]

Well that ends the debate of who's scum in the gods. Also Benmage is out.

[DTMaster]

My vote is already there.

[DTMaster]

Considering that NS replied in thread right after my big post and ignored my QT questions lol.

[DTMaster]

Actually I take that back. I just realize I overlapped Percy and Benmage .. I'm going to take a break and sleep on this. I believe more accurate Meta will be Battle Mage and Tarot Cards.

[DTMaster]

But as of now NS didn't finish all my requests in the QT. I asked everyone if they trusted my claim and if NS wouldn deliever it properly. Benmage your thoughts? Did you get a target from me? NS did you send Benmage a target.

I don't remember any more recent ones of us together.

[DTMaster]

That last question made me go why bother asking that? (To Benmage)

Mina has a clear head. I require sleep because I think there is something off in my notes.

[DTMaster]

I've asked for your input on my reads for the last day or so... Why haven't you answered my recent QT posts? Hmm?

[DTMaster]

1. Corvuis: I killed my gambit because the noise potential is huge. Scum would latch on to this and we'd be stalling today. I'd rather have a productive Day 1 then have it end up with a back and forth of:

Person 1: I don't understand DTM. Explainz now.
DTM: No, it's QT talk.
Person 1: K I'll vote DRK.
DTM: No I think he's town from QT.
Person 1: But I think he's scum.

Repeat.
2. Corvuis: If you are saying that NS is trying to frame me by being unhelpful in thread that contradicts your scum read on me and NS. You cannot link both NS and me as scum using that logic. While I agree the NS assessment is fair since he's all quiet in the QT.

Likewise if you disliked that I posted my action outline

because scum would take advantage of it

that contradicts your scum read as well. How can I, who you think be scum, give scum an advantege by posting an action outline. If I town, was posting my targets, then I would be feeding scum information. But wait, remember what you said earlier, scum has day talk. Why would I scum, post actions in thread that would be advantageous to scum, when I can post stuff in this day QT.

Oh right, because in order for me to be taken advantage of I have to be on the opposite faction as scum. I can't be scum. This logic is full of holes, its funny.

3.

CORVUIS STOP IGNORING MY POSTS. I've listed a bunch of questions on you that you ignored

4. Corvuis. Considering that I refused the BP protection publicly throws a wrench in Equinox's request. Likewise if it's a buddying attempt, I'm keeping an eye of those. I'm not in the same priesthood as Equinox so I don't know what Equiniox is doing. If you're implying that both Equinox and I have communication, then why are you fishing for that?

Are you saying we're scum? Or masons? Or neighbours?

I'm unaware that we are either roles and I'm definately not scum.

4. Nopoint. Yes. Hence it's a town argument against the scum case. I highly doubt that DRK-scum would go: "wtf why did the doc claim to me", there's little motivational sense for him to do that. If you noticed

I started with a scum read on DRK by claiming doctor, contrary to Benmage/LLD/Jack who I gave scum reads to them

. But I

changed it because small tells are quite revealing

.

[DTMaster]

I just read DRK's latest posts. V.V. wayyyyyy toooo gooo.

DRK: Why did you "have to think" was the town response? I mean that's kind of a major scum mental slip.

[DTMaster]

You know, that statement makes me want to take my defence and throw it out the window.

[DTMaster]

Hmmm. Feysal I count 4 ongoing games and you've been on the site every day. A few of them are quite large too. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.....

[DTMaster]

His pattern of posting in all those games supports his self meta.

[DTMaster]

I find that Feysal is more in control of the situation as town though here's a good town meta http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... start=1425

Also "face palm at DRK".

[DTMaster]

NS if you're done being pissed off, and since the only update is you think I'm scum then like I said in the QT has I flood your e-mail please answer my question: Do you have critiques to my cases/arguments?

Considering that you never once brought it up when I asked you to passed the messages and just passed the messages for me puts your stance to be poor. I take responsibility for what happened, but if you were always of thought that it was a failure then you should have attacked me during the claiming I did in QT. Jack and DRK both did. LL even said that she didn't trust me via you.

But you were the only one who expressed the popular idea only in the aftermath. So yeah, I gave my reasonings to why I chose the 3 reads: DRK, Benmage, nopointinacting up (Hito counts as 4 but as a town read rather then a scum/neutral read). I look forward to your case good sir.

Now on to the comments.

[DTMaster]

Do you know what a hider is? I hide behind people. If they are scum

I die

. I am not targetable since hide resolves before most actions int he natural order resolution. In a sense

I'm claiming weak cop

. You know, the guarenteed sane cop? (Barring GFs and such).

[DTMaster]

You are confusing this role

The Hider has the ability to target one player each night. If that player is pro-town, the hider is protected from Night-Kills that night. If the player targeted is killed that same night, the Hider dies too. If the player targeted is Mafia, the hider usually dies.

With Cowards

Commuter
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Commuter
Alias: Coward

Alignment: Pro-town

Role type: Protective

Choice: Night



The Commuter is a town aligned role which can commute and leave the town for the night. Therefore, the player with this role is immune to night kills any night which they have commuted.

This power is usually limited with a restriction of not being able to commute on consecutive nights.

Some moderators also apply this night choice immunity to other night actions such as investigation and role blocking.

Where the coward usually is a self target commute.

[DTMaster]

Also Archived Meta

http://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewtopic.php?t=11720

Lowell, Townie Hider, crumpeted in the town square Day 1.
ThAdmiral (replacing Far_Cry), Townie Doctor, stabbed Night 1.
Hero764, Townie Lover, torn to shreds Night 1.
Mokina, Townie Lover, killed herself in grief dawn of Day 2.
qwints, Serial Killer, pilloried to the amusement of no one Day 2.
Nikanor (replacing Wiirdo), Townie, torn to shreds Night 2.
dank (replacing Raivann), Townie, smothered politely with a feather pillow Day 3.

This was a NORMAL game.

[DTMaster]

FYI Andruis also equates laziness = scum implictly. "making someone do something due to laziness" is not a town argument because you're not activly commenting on a case.

Aside from the rereading statements the belief the Jack is BP is more of a scum suspicion rather then a town suspicion. Town are more likely to critisize a BP claim because they feel like the BP person just failed to fulfill their role (i.e. attract them kills). While Andruis believes in the BP which is more of a scum mindset (i.e. I want my kills to work god damn it)..

There's pretty bad implicit things in that post, while I edit post my other stuff.

[DTMaster]

@Farside
The meta read contridicts Feysal's self MO. Considering that he activly tried to break the setup and in your game you link Feysal was generating strong reads with arguments, this breaks his demonstrated MO of what he does as town. It conflicts with his statement that he sits back and comments on other cases as a player, since there are 2 cases where he did more then "agree/disagree" on cases.

Iso post 9 in the linked game illustrates a plan to confirm people based on the ability to pick up weapons.
Iso 11 critiques another player's methods (much like someone would take the vantage point and crituqe a player's case).

@Benmage
I want you dead. If I die then I still want you dead :p.

@Corvuis
1. I sunk the gambit on my own initative because I thought it is too counter productive during the day. Do go on my wiki and understand that I initiate my arguments/actions as any factions. (Most recent one is OoT Mafia for scum and a good one for my cop powers is It's always Sunny in Philelphia Mafia run my Reck in minithemes where I outed 2/3 scums I'll get the links) The noise level would be too great and distracting, and scum would have worked that to their advantage.

So the easiest way, by many people's standards of course, was my claim. Then explaination. Then sunk the whole gambit. If you think I mishandled that gambit, fine I did. But there's literally no motivation to premtively steal the spotlight away from DRK and let me defend him. If you read my mafia meta, I don't care if my partner is getting lynched. I throw them under the bus then run them over and over and over. (OoT I literally won by lynching my mafia partner, but then again the situation is different).

There is no gain for me to defend DRK like this, unless I think he's a town read. Literally, WIFOM or not just skim over my games :p.

Considering that

I posted how my role worked you'll understand that my death means that I confirmed scum

. Read how the hider role works. Read that if I die and my target lives guess who is scum? Oh right THE TARGET THAT CAUSED ME TO DIE. There will be an unexplained death of a Hider and I claimed my targets via QT. Since I didn't trust NS, I claimed 3 possible targets and tried to get DRK to shoot me if he was scum.

Oh yeah, what are hiders immune to again? Kills. Am I BP? No. Can I die? Yeah if my target also dies and is town, I die. Can I be RBed? Well Natural Order Resolution stops that so no. Is this role super IMBA? Hell yeah. http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... Resolution

An action that supercedes blocking, busing and is a guarentee sane cop investigation? (Barring GFs and such). You bet your ass that that if I die, then there's a ton of information because I can't die normally. Do you understand now?

[DTMaster]

Also

@Corvuis
1. I'm asking you to make defined reads. You're being wishy-washy in that you're attacking me, but you agree that there is both town and scum arguments there. What is your defined, on the dot read of me.

2. In regards to NS, even if he is scum (oh mai), that doesn't change the fact on who I want to hide behind. My life isn't important. Like I said, it's how hiders die is important. Since NAR is on my side, my death will tell you guys who's scum. Since it's unmodifiable via NAR, that means blocking/bussing/redirecting is a non issue. That means scum is hooped. I will target someone tonight. I can 85% clear them if they are town (GFs and such might wreck it) and 100% catch scum if I die.

I'll be maintaining my course of action tonight kthnksbye.

@Jack/Equinox
Your assessment is making me question this case now. I'm starting to think that this wagon should swing towards Benmage if both DRK and Feysal aren't ringing well in yee guts. Benmage case begins nao.

[DTMaster]

Actually, that puts a wrench in things :<. Hmmmz. I missed that. Hide will probably fall under misc.1.

[DTMaster]

My continued existance has been shortened significantly due to that information D:.

[DTMaster]

Umm, DGB? Where did you get scum claim from hider = weak cop in mechanics with bps (sorta I die if scum hits my targets).

[DTMaster]

"shrugs" it's too late since I claimed. If you're going to use that against me LLD, please construct the scum argument in the form: This is why DTM is town, or DTM is scum. The critism, while natural, doesn't solve a thing.

[DTMaster]

1. Equinox is summining up the reasons why I believe Corvuis is a source of the information leak (mentioned when I gambit claimed). Also.. the immunity thing makes no sense. If you read it in a scum context, it's like "I'll deal with you later". Lolz.

Due to the details of the BP leak, it's also suggestive that the leak actually spread to DGB (hence why I'm not ready to declare NS). However the DGB thing is less obvious then Corvuis who's pulling out details pre-claim.

Equniox is more town then anything because scum shouldn't have inside information about my multiple claims.

2. I kind of facepalm at DGB because, you know, what I said about BPs earlier? Oh yeah and the case against me. :p However it did fish out Coruvis' scummy reaction. Town, regardless of BP status know that a decleration of BP in thread nullifies the usefulness of said role. Thus, scum knows who to kill, etc, etc. The fact is, the BP claim means that town should pursue their case despite the claim if it's their strongest read.

However, the above also suggests that Corvuis and DGB are not on the same team. I'm willing to bet that if Corvus flips scum, then DGB gets cleared due to the mental slip on "waiting till tomorrow".

3.

Mod can the priests talk with their gods at night?

. If so I'll be still analyzing via QT and pass those on to NS at night. I suggest all players do the same thing and talk with their gods.

[DTMaster]

I visited Nopoint last night. Apparently NS was caught in a snow storm Sunday hence the inactivity. I've been PMing and QTing, but no avail. Case stems from yesterday of course, and the points that I drew minus the meta. The same type of play style (not caring, no cases, etc) applies to Benmage. Finally out of everyone, at least with NS as a filter, Benmage is the only person who did not have a reply to my claims (e.g. "It's stupid" "I don't trust you"). LLD didn't trust me via NS, which under her role can be seen very differently (information role counter claim).

Vote Benmage

I also kind of wanted to do a I told you so dance V.V. Shout out to DRK in the grave, don't dig yourself this grave again plskthnks. It's frustrating enough when I see a little, uber town tell to fall to pieces. :<

Anyone in my group discuss with NS?

Also his latest point perturbs me considering that NS used the original e-mails which included the un-edited form of my QT posts. Then mentioned everything is messed up since I edited some posts to add extra info (hence why DRK got the doc claim when I changed it out). If you have both original and edited posts (since I can only edit the most recent post and the others are locked in) then you have all the information. V.V. It doesn't make sense.

Anyways NS did LLD send out a message pre-death.

Please note: as LLD pointed out that since roleblocks supersede misc.1 actions (e.g. probably Hide) that Nopoint isn't clear sadly :<.

[DTMaster]

Um... explain again? You got it wrong if you're going down this angle. If Spyrex didn't know his buddies, how could you associate riddlemaster as a crumb to be shot? That means Spyrex would need to know who his buddies are V.V. (Which can be supported by my meta in Mafia of Order where the traitor knew his buddy but the team didn't know him).

It would be in reverse that Spyrex knew who, and the team doesn't.

[DTMaster]

Oh I missed a page in that V.V. But your angle includes that Spyrex had to know people to crumb to. If he really thought I was his buddy then lol at that. No really, lol at that. I'm a bit disturbed though since Corvuis is voting with me. I need to reread him.

[DTMaster]

Bleah... out of all the plethora of reasons to vote the Benmage, he had to go with one of the weakest comments. A sarcastic tag attached to a comment. V.V. Early bussing? Voting analysis actually points towards Benmage and Corvuis. I require to reread their reasons to why they voted DRK.

Also I mentioned this line to NS in the QT:

If Courvis attacks LLD/Jack/Farside then I would consider it a scum slip. But I noticed that Corvuis defended 2/3 slots in one post. Either this is a coincidence, or I believe there is coaching going around. However the analysis on Jack is new. The analaysis on LLD is minor speculation.\

@DGB
I said I claimed that I would target one of Benmage/Nopoint (Crymearivier slot) and DRK. Hell even LLD, Jack and Benmage (Well actually Benmage didn't say anything which is weird) got that. I claimed via Meta games. I also claimed to NS. During the night, I told him that I'd be hiding on Nopoint in the end since I feel that Nopoint is more important for confirming then Benmage at the moment. You know investigate your neutral, lynch the scum reads idea.

[DTMaster]

Um, no. Considering half the playerlist pointed out that RB supercedes my actions

after I claimed that hide had priority?

. Yeah... no being berated by half the playerlist doesn't teach you anything.

[DTMaster]

Take a break and reread this page where LLD berates me after I claimed this:

Oh yeah, what are hiders immune to again? Kills. Am I BP? No. Can I die? Yeah if my target also dies and is town, I die. Can I be RBed? Well Natural Order Resolution stops that so no. Is this role super IMBA? Hell yeah. http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... Resolution

An action that supercedes blocking, busing and is a guarentee sane cop investigation? (Barring GFs and such). You bet your ass that that if I die, then there's a ton of information because I can't die normally. Do you understand now?

[DTMaster]

Had LLD not pointed out my fallacy, I would have been more confident in clearing Nopoint kthnks.

[DTMaster]

The two that struck out on me on the DRK wagon are Benmage and Courvis.

Note here are their voting reasons:
@Corvuus

DRK generally always looks scummy regardless of alignment. It is his nature.
His exact responses and exchange with tajo is interesting.

I read the people voting me, the person my predecessor was voting and I read tajo-DGB and I figured I would read the 'lead' wagon in terms of ISO.

My point in my first post is just that the Tajo-DRK is interesting in terms of how you are both treating it. The interesting part to me is that your defense/actions strike me as town (believing tajo is town, scumhunt, choices) and I am just genuinely surprised compared to what I remember of you and what I think of you. I don't think you are a definite scum right now though but I guess I'll learn your 'new meta'/style.

DRK: unless you are trying to pick a fight with me, i'm not sure what your point is.

If it makes it simple for you, there are basically only two scenarios I can imagine for you.

1. You are town and are actively trying to prevent your own lynch while finding scum.
2. You are scum but somehow are fairly calculating in how you prevent your own lynch while driving a wagon on someone else while appearing as in 1.

I find option #2 to be less likely for various reasons.

When I said that you tend to 'look/appear' scummy, you should realize it isn't a "dismissal" in that everything you do is scummy therefore you must be scum, but that you tend to 'appear' scummy regardless of your alignment and I (and others) need to read and consider it more. That is why I find it interesting since a DRK-scum in previous game would play differently than what you are doing now. I would consider you to be town based on other parts but since there IS day talk scum chat, I can not discount the difference in play style from 1. previous game(s) to this game, 2. early game this game ('laziness') to 'being wagoned/voted' this game.

If this is still not plain enough; your play strikes me as town but i can not discount possibility of coaching, etc. so I am not sure. I am not voting you so take that as you will.

Interestingly enough, players have stated that they think Feysal AND DRK is scum so we should definitely be able to get a lynch regardless.

DRK is more likely scum than Feysal to me based on recent DRK posts.

vote DRK .

Corvuus

Please note the town arguments around the time that I presented that DRK was clear due to QT interactions. And the lack of reasoning to support the DRK-scum. If anything Corvuus' priority is the Equinox and DTM case, not the DRK. He had a strong town read due to meta and inflection of tone in his posts. But due to "magical reasons" DRK became scummy then hammerable. Does this look like lazy scum hunting to you? I think so.

@DGB
Um.. dude. I'm explaining that LLD's motivations are much more clearer in QT to showcase how Benmage isn't doing anything in the QT. Because I got a defined response from Jack, DRK and LLD in the QT that makes them more townie. In hindsight I see her responses differently, and explained it unprovoked because that's what I thought kthnks.

[DTMaster]

LLD breated me about it. You also

KNEW BECAUSE YOU POSTED like 3 minutes later after

using that as a point against me that my actions can be RBed for a weak reason for my prolonged existence?

[DTMaster]

You know the whole BP arguments? When I unprovoked, and took the initiative to claim that I didn't want your BP granted to me but I was still killable? Oh right.

[DTMaster]

FYI: Jack doesn't belong to that list of yours.

[DTMaster]

Also note: Farside I have a message via NS should one of us die. Lets just say that I'm entertaining a few of your cases in the QT and asked NS to post it in thread as my wild card case. But it's been silent in the thread. V.V.

It's confirmed though that PMing and QTs aren't part of the activity checks so I couldn't get a prod on NS officially

.

@Andruis
1. Hito you only added 1 name to DGB's list. You're ignoring the biggest ones. And Nopoint is doing substantially better then most people (e.g. You)

[DTMaster]

@Benmage
Don't you have insights of your own to put forward? Everything so far has been extremely reactionary. (There's no actions/scumhunting/etc put forward from you via cases at all).

@Hito
1. HOLD ON. You establish a Corvuis versus NS link? Wouldn't you logically want to solve this scum mystery now (you have reads on both NS/Corvus)? In a pure numbers game, it's the best time to look at this mess since we can afford the mistakes now (if there are any) rather then later.

2. I'm still miffed that DRK made me question my initial read V.V. Stupid paranoia.

@DGB
1. I'd be willing to investigate Feysal only on the off chance there's distancing afoot. But due to the wagon shifts that occurred last day I might have to agree with the Feysal-town read supported stronger by Spyrex, and go from there.

[DTMaster]

No probs to Tajo, considering that my death is the only good result I can get.

I prefer the neutral investigation route just strategically since it covers more bases.

[DTMaster]

So if you want I could totally investigate him tonight. I have no issues with that.

[DTMaster]

Yay the god speaks. But the line of logic is weak considering that while I gambited I was gauging people's responses to my gambit. (Hence the DRK town read, and the Jack town read and the LLD is normal read).

Plus can you point to more specifics NS god. Considering that you're always vague with: it's your gambit, the method:

I want "whats", and "whys" answered to this.

Finally I've asked you to comment on my reads. If you are maintaining a scum read on me, then I'm revealing information by providing defined reads to you in thread and in QT. Thus you should be able to establish more definite statements against me because I've outlined my clear town/scum reads to you. In addition to commenting about these players, you'll be able to contribute to the game as a whole since I literally asked you to talk about almost everyone in the game.

You sir do not function as a simple overseer to the game. You sir have a vote. If you were both immortal and voteless then I might let it pass but you have the ability to change the activity in the thread (or QT) by participating and voting. You have a physical influence on this game. So your assessment on your role is terrible.

You have a brain. Use it. Or be condemmmed. Shuuuuuuunnnnned and condemmmmmed (since this is a god theme and all :[p)

[DTMaster]

Spyrex's flip has information. His goal is to survive and to let scum know he's a traitor. So I'd suspect though that Spyrex's actions could pull out town reads (buddying to see who he thinks are the strongest players). I wouldn't discount anything, even if it's minor.

[DTMaster]

It's also possible (sadly) that Spyrex would use the scum read/town read idea to defend what he would normally call his scum reads and support the lynches of his normal town reads.

[DTMaster]

Sorry reading week shenanigans.

1. Benmage: I investigated CMaR slot (Nopoint) because, oh my god I'm not DGB and saw that this slot is neutral. Hence this philosophy on game play: investigate the neutral reads, lynch the scummy reads. I've outlined in thread when I claimed

that I found CMaR slot (Nopoint) a place where I would look

and claimed that to Benmage with the Internal Struggle (and to NS).

You have supposed to read my posts. I outlined who and why my hiding targets/potential hiding targets have been since I claimed. I'm following my own reads, not DGBs. If I agree with her fine. If I don't then I don't. Nopoint is obviously someone I didn't agree with. I don't want to repeat myself like 5 million times, read my posts, and I explained

why

already.

2. Benmage: Because if you actually took time to look at NS

he V/LAed in all his games

due to the snow storm (despite posting a liner here and there). His meta is consistent with that (except for the fact that he did post in general threads and his mod requirements). His claim is legit site wide. But his activity remains all game. It's frustrating since it supports and denies his reasoning here. >>;;

3. Benmage: Name calling is a lol argument. Also your read on Andruis is a point against him, especially since if he's untactful (and not really trying), thats a good scum argument against him from just lulzing about.

4. DGB:

STOP FOR A SECOND

I thought it was mod-established that scum didn't know who the traitor was, or that it existed here:

Even though you are a technical member of The Corrupt and win with them, they do not know your identity and you do not know theirs.

V.V;; How can traitor communications even be a legitimate argument against Jack.

5. I love Equinox's wall. I'll just go over some points

a. I agree with your Feysal/DRK assessment. (Though at the moment I would really like some Feysal love to happen in this game)
b. I agree that Corvuis-scum is an easy bus/distance. I like the new interpretation of the Courvis attacks, but this brings into concern Andy's play. I disagree with your statement about Andy due to the heavy DGB buddying action. (Except I don't know what's happening behind the scenes so they could be pulling a Pom on me. The QT must be really good V.V;;)
c. I'm miffed at the Jack case (mainly since I have a town read). But your arguments are much more sound then DGB.

6. Jack. Um... the Benmage thing did happen. I remember going oh lol wait I'm wrong, but the laziness still is a valid point to attack. And you attacked with me. I'll need to iso the rest to confirm Equinox's points now.

7. Corvuis: I just face palm. I didn't get out of the gambit by claiming DRK town. I claimed DRK town pre-claim. I clarified post-claim. Ignoring the gambit claim, I used

MY QUICK TOPIC posts and cited one as a town tell on DRK

. That was the reason for the town read.

8. Need to reread hito, Benmage, and Jack. I'm going to be busy for a bit so here's my little catch up commentary. Sadly I don't have strong reads anymore due to Benmage's shenanigans making me question it. I msged to NS that I put Hito as my super scum wild card and wanted LLD look at that case (before she died) V.V;;.

[DTMaster]

Also while I still don't see the Tajo hate, the continual DGB hate from Tajo is getting dry. It's irksome since I want more priest reads and less god reads.

[DTMaster]

K got my prods. Busy week ended will catchup naos.

[DTMaster]

First immediate responses.

1. DGB: Scum wouldn't fish for the traitor in the open

because they wouldn't know

. I disagree on that because when that occured to me in Mafia of Order, the fact that this was unknown to me (and like wise to them) made the team focus on normal games (even in reduced numbers). Read Zoraster's post: Scum team couldn't know this information. Scum traitor does. Considering that the second kill was on LLD, I highly doubt they were hunting scumz traitor.

Thus this point doesn't make sense since scum couldn't have this information.

It's mod confirmed in thread

.

2. DGB: The only thing that makes sense is Spyrex fishing for scum, which means Spyrex suspects Jack is scum. But he's in the dark. You can't use your traitor communication because it's only one way (unless Fishy and Spyrex both confirmed via QT and it's Fishy/Spy scum).

3. DGB Finally you took the context of Spy's post. Jack claimed NS claimed scum in his PMs. The straight truth is NS is scum, not Jack claiming scum. If you're using semantics, Spyrex would need to reference NS. NS counter claimed that he didn't claim scum.

Remember the long pages of debates that resulted from this? Yeah..... you've missed it.

4. Equinox: I call it a Pom because Pom did that to me (first). Mainly Andruis is active in QT and not in thread. Katsuki did this in OOT mafia, which is why I left him alive as mafia (he looked useless but I realized he was very deadly later on due to his accurate reads). That's the only plausible explanation (especially with 200+ posts in their QT according to Andruis)

5. DGB: You completely reversed your stance on Feysal. You know the whole wagon analysis? I thought that confirmed Feysal-town (which I agree under Equinox's arguments that summarize the wagon analysis).

6. Courvis: I still dislike the reference to day talk because silence in thread is pointless. It's our main weapon (And only weapon for a few people) to fight scumz. Like, really? DGB's posts while I think have flaws, are a good read into her mind. I think she's streching some arguments, but it's more then a ton of people have done. She has clear defined reads. You... wishy washy back and forth. Your case on me is an awesome example because you stopped pursing a

scum read

for a

more favourable lynch read

. Yeah please, scummify it up more.

7. Also you're not defining a Jack read. You're defining a confused read (by asking Jack to clarify, then threatening to L-1). V.V;; Hey remember

the TOWN READ ON JACK?

The existence of a Traitor role makes Jack-NS interaction early on make sense. Jack is town who likes to just spout gambits and screw around. Scum most likely know of the existence of a 'traitor', so when Jack claims 'scum' to NS for just random giggles, NS, as the scum-God, KNOWS Jack isn't "true scum" but thinks he could be traitor who can be converted. So NS claims scum back to jack hoping to induct a scum member. Jack wtfs this.

The odds of a Jack-scum and NS-scum are incredibly low, while the above Jack-town and NS-scum scenario are quite high.

Yeah, you wishy washy scummy bastard.

Why is this guy getting the free pass with such an obvious contradiction in intentions. His intent in his posts =/= his vote, nor his attacks. His pursuit of a DTM/Equinox case fails because it's easier to get another person lynched? Because your town read is scum by wagon association now? Just like Courvis did with DRK?!??!?!? This blows some holes from Equinox's read due to the fact that Courvis stopped his attack for more juicier wagons.

Shame I liked the new interpretation. I need to re-evaluate the DRK switch from Courvis though.

[DTMaster]

While I do my catch up. I also want to stress NS just ceased any communication with me in QT. It's been a lonely DTM talk in QT :<

[DTMaster]

HOLY CRAP. NS WHY DID YOU JUST LIE IN THREAD? I POSTED A BUNCH OF STUFF AND READS IN QT AND YOU'RE NOT RESPONDING TO ME?

[DTMaster]

You know, you could comment on stuff on what I said. Like I expected Farside to die last night and that Hito might be scum due to her awesome case. WTF is this?

[DTMaster]

Well I didn't say "I expected", but I hinted by saying we should look at Hito should she die.

[DTMaster]

Ughhh busy = / = stalling. If Jack has been absent site wide that is not a stalling argument. I've been busy all week. Was I stalling for input? Nooope. It was reading week here and shenanigans went aboot.

[DTMaster]

DGB READ ZORASTER. WHAT DOES THE TRAITOR PM SAY. OH RIGHT SCUMZ DOESN'T KNOW TRAITOR. SCUM WOULDN'T FOCUS ON THAT BECAUSE THEY WOULDN'T KNOW ABOUT THAT. YOU GOT EVERYTHING BACKWARDS. IT'S THE TRAITOR WHO NEEDS TO FIND SCUM. WHY ARE YOU DOING EVERYTHING BACKWARDS? SPY-TRAITOR WHO'S ALONE AND WOULD WANT TO BE NKED WOULD PLAY PRO TOWN AND ATTEMPT TO BE NKED BY SCUMZ. HE WOULD TRY AND FINGER SCUMZ BY CALLING THEM OUT. OR HE WOULD DEFEND SCUMZ BY CALLING THEM TOWN.

BUT NOOO HE PROBABLY JUST GAVE UP SINCE HE WAS HERP DERPING ALL GAME. LEARN TO READ BEFORE YOU ARGUE. I"M TIRED OF THE SCUM TEAM FISHING FOR TRAITOR THEORIES WHEN ZORASTER POSTED THE TRAITOR PM.

[DTMaster]

BTW I posted the Farside thing at Feb 20, 4:20 EST PM in the QT according to the time stamp.

[DTMaster]

I'm just tired of this:

Even though you are a technical member of The Corrupt and win with them, they do not know your identity and you do not know theirs.

1. Benmage: DTMnubsauce? Yes? Reference to?

2. Courvis: FINALLY SOME ACTUAL DEFINED READS. You defended Equinox, wut, but yay since it's the same logic as me.

3. I don't like the god confimation logic because we sacrifice one town-priest to confirm the unlynchable god scumz. Whooptie, doo. We can't do anything about it. This is lazy logic to justify a Jack vote.

4. The stalled claim, is not stalling if he's not at the site for allll hissss gammmmmmesssssssss (Seen by Equinox). Multiple games. He's suffering in multiple games for the sake of stalling here? Lolz, that's horrible justification.

5. I also hate the implied notion that things can't continue until a flip/claim occurs. The stall comes from people not doing crap. Like Nopoint or Benmage. Farside, Equinox, and DGB/Andruis are examples of attacks elsewhere (While DGB is being lolz about it).

[DTMaster]

For Emphais

Even though you are a technical member of The Corrupt and win with them, they do not know your identity and you do not know theirs.

they do not know your identity and you do not know theirs.

[DTMaster]

Day 2 Flip. Zoraster posted the TRAITOR ROLE INFORMATION.

[DTMaster]

And LLD's ROLE INFORMATION.

[DTMaster]

The fact that the temple of rewards enabled DGB to this theory shows there is something terribly wrong with them. The only reasonable voice at the moment is Tajo. Seriously.

[DTMaster]

NIGHT 2 ENDS

Good morning, gods and priests! Now that the sun is up, we can see what the aftermath of the night was:

SpyreX the Traitor was killed

Lady Lambdadelta the Association Cop was killed

Spoiler: Select Passages from Role PMs

Note: These are SELECTED Passages, but they do not necessarily include all of the information given to a player.

Traitor

You are

evil

and win with scum. The scum wins if all of the good mortals have been eliminated.

Even though you are a technical member of The Corrupt and win with them, they do not know your identity and you do not know theirs.

If a cop targets you before you make contact with the rest of The Corrupt, you will come up INNOCENT.

Cop of Association

You are

good

and win with the town. The town wins if all of the evil mortals have been eliminated.

Additionally, you are an investigator that looks at associations. Each night, you may PM me with at least four mortal players who are not you (you may submit five or more with one of them being you if you wish). I will respond by telling you whether the group of players you sent me included any guilty parties.

Please note that there will be at least one scum-aligned player who will come up innocent.

So for example, if you were to submit a list of RedCoyote, Zoraster, Bubba and Gary, and Zoraster and RedCoyote were scum, I would send you a response that said, “your list included at least one scum.”

On any night, you can choose to submit your results rather than investigate. If you do this, all three gods will be told the results of all of your investigations up to that point, but it will NOT reveal you as the source. This will occur BEFORE kills go through that night.

Day 2 Vote Count

Andrius ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

populartajo ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

hitogoroshi ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

nopointinactingup ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

Equinox ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

farside22 ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

Feysal ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

Lost Butterfly ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

Corvuus ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

Benmage ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

Jack ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

DTMaster ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

No Lynch ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

Not Voting ( 15 ) Lost Butterfly populartajo, Benmage,

Fishythefish,

Feysal, Corvuus, nopointinactingup, Equinox, farside22, Jack, DTMaster, hitogoroshi,

DrippingGoofball,

Andrius,

Nobody Special,

Total Votes ( 15 )

Deadline: March 7th at 23:00 EDT
With 15 able to vote, 8 needed to lynch.

[DTMaster]

DGB. I'd only concede that THEY COULD know. This game: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12460 has a mafia traitor. This game, I was scum. I did not know there was a traitor in the game.

Key concept: I did not know who the traitor is in this game

. (You will need to go to the Archives).

Your base that scum "might know", not that "they would know" is still a logical fallacy. The only confirmed thing is we can go from Spy to who he thinks is scum. Only scum can confirm that scum would know the traitor exists.

[DTMaster]

In my rage I forgot to switch my vote.

Unvote, Vote Coruvis

. My brainz is here due to his Jack vote switch. I'll need to double check how he handled DRK again to be sure but I recall it's the same. It breaks Equinox's defense because he gave up tackling the big players for something favourable. I'll need to double check Hito as well since I mentioned that Farside's case was strong here and in QT.

[DTMaster]

NS did LL hint anything about having a role to you?

Also, my priests are not talking to me again. If I were to ask for fruit, would that help?

I've been following along with the thread, but I feel there might have been a question or two aimed at me that may have slipped through the cracks. If you still need my input, go ahead and ask me again now. I have had some things going on but will be more active from this point.

I've asked you a billion times to put foward a few things:

1. You mentioned that you thought I was scumz. Case plox.
2. I mentioned my reads in QT. I asked you to comment. I specifically mentioned that:

I thought Nopoint was neutral.
Benmage was scum.
Jack/DRK (before death)/ LLD reads as town/normal.

Farside's case was good and I would expect to look at Hito should she die.
Post DRK's Town flip, I would consider attacking Courvis. I was interested to see Courvis' interaction with Jack/Farside/LLD. I said that should he attack any of those 3 I would look more closer into him.

Like wtf is this shit? Why are you complaining about a lack of communication? I gave plenty. You don't miss these points.

[DTMaster]

I specifically called out on Jack/LLD/Farside due to the DRK votes. I expected him to attack them for starting the DRK wagon due to his initial scum hunting reasonings. However I find that his case on Jack is a parrot attempt by the rest of the town. This argument overrides my initial statement since it's a different argument reaching the same conclusion.

[DTMaster]

Particularly since I flubbed my gambit, you said that you didn't consider me a town read. Explain. Case. Attack. I'm Uncle Sam and your vote matters.

[DTMaster]

I also reasoned Post DRK that I was considering hiding behind Feysal, but coming out of the gates I agree with the town read that Jack gave. The only reason I considered hiding behind Feysal was the Meta conflict Farside and I brought up earlier, and this makes me paranoid.

[DTMaster]

So lies, lies and more lies. You asked for more communication, I gave them since D1. You complain about a lack of content in the QT, I just posted what I wrote here. Explain yourself.

[DTMaster]

More proof: I asked you to pass on a message to LLD. I wanted her to look into Farside's case because I trusted her the most. I implied it by asking you to tell her to focus on Hito.

[DTMaster]

Lol, Well I just posted my entire thought process over night. Thought it might be more useful for some people for my input

[DTMaster]

DGB: I didn't know about the existence of a traitor either. Hence the sudden reaction at the end of the game where I went: Lol wut we won so fast?

[DTMaster]

I guess it's kind of useless, but I also claimed to NS that I was targeting nopoint specifically last night. He probably caught on that I was baiting him to shoot Nopoint for me, and shoot me :p

@DGB
1. We come to the same conclusion. They could. I agree. You wiiiiinnnzors. Except we can only for sure go Spyrex out (in my opinion). We've come to an impasse. I disagree with the conclusion from your arguments. I concede that communication could be passed. However I favour the other argument by Equi/Farside and doubt all the scum would put the eggs in the basket.

[DTMaster]

I disagree with Andruis :V. So "throws his cherry pit at youuu and sorry I'll catch up in [retracted] later today/tomorrow"

[DTMaster]

Um I think Benmage just slipped scum. All high priests please double check on me.

Ehhh but the claim is on pg one...I was referring to his lack of the word

good

...not sure if Equinox meant the same.

The word "good is not in your name" It's High Priest - Faction (ie. Judgement/Time) then role.

[DTMaster]

So it goes High Priest - Priest Faction - Role. Am I crazy or something, or did Benmage ub3r slipped.

[DTMaster]

Then why are you questioning the whole good part if it's not really part of the role claim? V.V;; I'm confused to why you brought it up when Equinox was focusing on format. Especially since the only colour you first see is the big red letters (or purple or blue) to the god faction.

Also the NS-scum theory is wacked, considering he posted without hammering due to popular intentions. DGB wanted blood. I question the integrity of the NS-scum case because it, just, doesn't fit. An immortal scum being afraid to hammer? o-o. I'm going over the recent statements and the NS-scum equation doesn't add up.

Edit: I agree with Faraday/Mina in that I would try and out a PR if absolutely necessary and if I'm going down in flames.

[DTMaster]

TO clarify Benmage: If you read the preview PM, I assumed that when you talked about good, you talked about the "good" shown in the name of the role and not the WC.

[DTMaster]

V.V; NS controls all hammers. Again, a bus here and an indiscriminate lynch there and you make everyone paranoid to have votes at L-1. The only way to avoid NS from controlling all the hammer votes is to set everything at L-2. With the current public opinion on NS, I just don't see it. Unless he's that lazy about it V.V;;.

DGB. There is a role that someone could claim. It'll take 10 seconds of reading the flips on the first page. V.V;;

[DTMaster]

Then again WIFOM sez lots of stuff. I think the debate should be sunk before I get too carried away. Equinox is right and this is too much MD and not enough MafiaScumhunting.

1. NS Could you really, really answer me?

2. Benmage: Yes, since you didn't specifiy in the original post. I assumed you asked if good was in the name since you just said: Almaster was missing "good" in his claim.

You don't normally jump straight to the win con when you ask someone to claim their role name. That wasn't really part of the role claim.

[DTMaster]

HOLD ON THE CRAP. WE KEEP THE SK ALIVE IF HITO IS AN SK. STOP THIS SHIT BECAUSE HITO SK or HITO VIG IS CONTROLLED BY THE TOWN. EVERYONE OFF THIS WAGON. NOW NOW NOW.

We have control of an SK kill if he's SK. We have a potential Vig.

[DTMaster]

Now join in the Courvis Wagon. I wanted to see how many people jumped of Almaster's wagon and I'm glad to see Mina sees something fishy with the quick Hito vote swaps.

We keep Hito. If he's a killer, we have him chained via lynch. I DTMaster want this wagon to be resolved. If NS can, use his innocent powers and remove all the votes now.

[DTMaster]

Dude, double kills confirm Hito as SK or vig.

He can't be scum

.

We don't want to kill the SK (yet) Come one people 2 town directed kills? Confirmed via QTs? Across an entire neighbourhood? Yeah all the scum are under DGB's roof.

Join me into the magnificent Courvis wagon. :3 I want Almaster to post more analysis. There is gut feelings there and with the recent posts, I expect particular reactions based on what he read in the QT and posted here versus what DGB just talked about.

[DTMaster]

Err specifically Mafia scum.

[DTMaster]

Benmage, Equinox. If Hito is SK he's following under the town's directive. Let's USE THAT and huntz Mafia scumz. If we catch all the predetermined Mafia scumz and the game doesn't end, let's deal with it. If Hito flubs as SK then we deal with it then. 2 town directed kills versus 1 town lynch and 1 scum NK. DEAL man. TOTALLY DEAL.

[DTMaster]

Between Hitos NK and my hide we narrow down the anti-town list pretty fast. "is giddy"

[DTMaster]

How cruel. V.V;;

[DTMaster]

Quick comments. At school etc etc.

1. I find Farside's replacement argument to be reallly, reallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly weak. I mean finding replacements is null, and considering the situation that Jack was going to be hung without a claim (because the town is so blood thirsty) isn't a good indicator of panicy scum. In honestly, if AGM is scum I'd expect his buddy to be bussing him already. I would do that honestly for easy town creds and such.

2. Equinox/Hito: You come to a conclusion that has yet to be proven: That is that NS isn't proven to be scumz. He might be lazy, and his lack of posting here doesn't help. But I still got my eye on Fishy who's also been silent as well (I have no strong reads from Fishy). Out of the 3 gods, only DGB is taking stances and attacking people here. Both of you automatically rule out Fishy is confirmed via NS actions. However, unless Fishy is doing some sekret communications in the QTs, there hasn't been much contribution to my knowledge.

Also if you look at Fishy's voting pattern he switched quickly from Jack to Hito to the Almaster/Benmage theory with ease. He's one of the key people that falls under Mina's analysis of "suspicious vote dropping".

Just because NS and Courvis are unlikely to be scum together

DOES NOT MEAN THAT COURVIS HIMSELF IS SCUM

. It's a paradigm shift to show us that

NS COULD BE TOWN OMG WTF BBQ I WANT TO STAB HIS EYES OUT

.

I really, really been hating the Fishy lately since I expect more from his play since Linked Mafia Redone edition.

[DTMaster]

BTW: Courvis is also scummy for a varity of reasons. Ignore the gods, and look at his posts alone. Like, really, really?

1. Tajo: Considering that the network caught Spy spy scum, I'm willing to let it go because you know they caught traitor scum. All the members confirm the communication. You know what?

2. DGB: You wanted me to hide behind Tajo remember? Please let me hide there as planned "hint hint hint"

[DTMaster]

Please note: Themanhimself concluded that Jack was scum because the early day gambit where NS supposively claimed scum makes no sense. That NS-scum would know who scum is (minus the traitor now that we know) and would not slip like that. So I don't understand how:

the man himself defending NS means that NS can't be scum with him either

[DTMaster]

Err nevermind, I guess outing NS scum would mean that. However I don't see the really big deal of outing that your immortal guy is scum when he can control voting behaviour using paranoia instead of his role.

[DTMaster]

Did you know that nopoint's iso is 1 page long for 2 game days :3/ His last post was a yawn.

[DTMaster]

Wait. DGB please tell me Nopoint is pulling an Andruis here. I'd cross him off my peoples to look into if he's communicating via QT.

[DTMaster]

Uhhhh on the phone and will respond to some points. But Wat? How does randomly distributed scum make 2 priesthoods masonries. At most outing 1 scum god confirms 2 townies, not 2 priesthoods. They remain neighbourhoods, not masonry. If NS is scum you don't auto clear the priests of rewards/time.

[DTMaster]

Uhhh AGM. You can post a <\3 but no response to the comments?

[DTMaster]

Also Farside/Ben your argument over this point is going to stagnant. I recommend other arguments since I see a big block of rage coming soon.

[DTMaster]

I'm on my phone now. I notice though there's an odd difficulty between the Courvis and Almaster wagon. This is an odd change from yesterday and the Jack/Almaster and the Hitowagon. There is gold here.

I won't be able to post full thoughts till tomorrow so checking in.

[DTMaster]

1. DGB did you answer if you're talking with Nopoint in QT?
2. Equinox/Farside just answered that Fishy talked in QT. Thus that's a good sign.
3. I need to consider distance theory for a moment while I mull over the wagon developments.
4. A question: Why did you call Jack town even though now you are advocating that he's the best lynch today. He's definitely a competing wagon, but for the first half of day 2 you didn't hold this day 1 theory favourably. Why the change now?

You're argument is based largely on the D1 gambit. But you changed your stance. I find this suspicious because you had all of day 2 to bring this forward, and only after Jack gets thrown to lynchable range do you decide "hes the best lynch" with this argument. Where's the Equinox/DTM case? Why the delay?

[DTMaster]

You know how you "emphasise" on that AGM may or may not be scum? I could understand if you had a town read that got changed into a scum read (ala like my DRK case). I simply don't understand how you can support an informational lynch after strongly standing by a town read, then being wishy washy about it. I thought you were hunting scum, not lynching for the sake of lynching to get information after the fact.

You have information during the lynch process and after the lynch flip of any person for information. The links and people maybe different, but your effort is best set on a scum read. Do you find AGM scummy (well Jack since AGM didn't really post anything outside his claim or do you find something off here).

Note the difference between your arguments and DGB is that DGB is actively calling AGM scum for the claim for XYZ reasons. You are simply going: If he's town or scum he's the best lynch because it has the most information. You're not voting against a scum read, you're voting for the sake of "information" which is a lazy way to say: I don't want to make arguments.

You called the gambits done by Jack townie, and better then mine multiple times previously. I find your intentions for your case to be poor. This doesn't read as a townie who cares about his scum reads, or even actively is trying to find scum. There's a lot of what ifs scenerios, and not enough: "how can I reduce this slew of paranoia so that I can cross out potential scum reads and change them to town reads in my scum hunting".

[DTMaster]

I have time to do some substantial posts now.

1. Feysal: Considering that both Benmage and Almaster both claimed under pressure and under similar circumstances points towards Benmage's defense of AGM. It's quite empathetic. If you're critising Benmage's lack of attack of AGM, can you show me how Benmage's claim was different (and scummier) then AGM's?

To me, since they are quite simillar. The argument that you used to defend AGM (tone and inflection of claim) was the same in Benmage's claim situation.

2. Equinox. I concede to the time of AGM's posting and I was harsh (for a 70ish page game at the time). I do want contributionz ASAP. There were key information claims that I want AGM to respond to and I'll ask if he doesn't in his catch up. It came from when he revealed information from the QT and the following restatements of the things that happened over the day right after his QT summary post.

3. DGB: This is troubling if nopointisup hasn't been contributing "much" (50+ posts in QT is meh, unless it's full of good fruity content). He's playing like scum who's been "cleared".

4. Nopoint: Why aren't you trying to find scumz and look for scumz reads?

5. Hito: Um.. is Coruvis scum? I can understand if in the aftermath you make a link read from Fishy and Courvis, except you haven't argued if Courvis is town/scum. You can say: Courvis and Fishy is linked and this the XYZ relationship I see. But by defending Courvis by saying: Courvis scum = Fishy scum. But I don't see Fishy = scum because I believe NS = scum. Therefore I'll ignore the possiblity of NS = town and Fishy = scum because NS is playing retardly scummy.

I'm more interested in Courvis stance, not the god links that come from that. You've been doing this for a while, which is a very round about way to call someone town based on someone's linkage. I don't have the QT talks like the temple of Time (which is why I equate Fishy to Andruis, I would call them scummy in thread but there's too much stuffs happening in QT that people are going: towniiiiiiee or in Farside's case criticaaaal).

I should re-meta NS to see how his town games go. If he's this lazy and just gives up then V.V;;. I only experienced NS scum I think.

6. As an update. NS hasn't replied to my comments earlier, nor has he said any thing in QT. The questions I have are still pending towards him (while he posts in ze Guys thread). V.V;;

7. Courvis just to clarify your case even more:

You think both Jack/AGM and NS are scum together then based on the comment here. Not Jack/AGM or NS scum.

Jack/AGM is very likely scum. I would hazard 90% and NS is the scum God and 'verifiable/provable' by Jack/AGM's flip regardless of whether Jack/AGM are town or scum as long as Jack isn't a complete "ass"/liar but AGM and NS have eliminated that so NS virtually *must* be the scum God.

You are unclear because you said Jack/AGM is the best lynch regardless of alignment and you did not establish a read on Jack/AGM. You did not explain

why you changed your read

until this post where I asked you. You just showed us how Jack/AGM flip will show us NS scum if this is a mislynch (which was discussed day 1).

I wanted to make sure

You thought Jack was scummy and wanted to lynch Jack because he is scummy

not because he has the best information. The latter is a normal scum argument used to justify mislynches for the sake of mislynching. It also provides an excuse for the player not to talk to other players (lol, INFO man, lets look at it afterwards).

Also in regards to traitor fishing (your support for DGB's arguments) that would imply only scum-NS if Jack is town. If you're using Jack as an example of scum traitor fishing (which was the original argument), then yes I wouldn't mind your stance (Jack is scummy). But you're basing it on: "If Jack is scum then he was traitor fishing yayay! If Jack is town, then NS is scum yayaya!. But I'd rather argue about what comes out of Jack's flip and not worry about if Jack is scum or town."

If you're unsure about Jack-scum/town (indicated by your reference to both) then you should really debunk the Jack-town arguments before pursuing a Jack wagon. Lynching for the sake of lynching someone for infos is not the point of the game. I present Brr Mafia (see my wiki) where town did that. But after the fact they ignored information hunting after wards. The townies that supported information hunting waffled around. Then scum sweeped. We had a scummy player go from lurking all day, to being replaced, then leading the wafflers what to do.

The main reason why town lost that game: they chose to leave the information hunting till after the lynch. Then guess what, the people that tried to information hunt went: Uhhhh.. so what now? Granted the vig shot cross shot scum for the most protown guy didn't help was lulz.

8. Why are you regarding your earlier scum cases as noise Courvis? That's terrible. It's Jack/AGM or no-one? Uh... what now? You are on the chopping block. We've asked you, for why your reads are fluctuating. Hell, you even chose not to tell Fishy why (which is a point for Fishy btw) for the "interest" of time in the QT.

Busy or not, I (and others) asked explanations, and motivations. I could care less whether you think Equinox is town or not. I care more

on why Equinox is town or not

. So I say: You haven't answered me fully, (and from this post I've asked you to clarify so woooooo positive feedback aggressive loop)

9. Some points I want you to consider why Jack/AGM is town.

a. He claimed that NS claimed scum prematurely. This is not a scum gambit, since this makes no sense to prematurely counter claim the immortal god from a scum point of view.
b. Jack mentioned that my messages via QT were stupid since I couldn't trust NS. If Jack is being critical about the gods, and this supports his stance that he thought NS was scum originally.
c. AGM prematurely claimed VT as L-1. I don't agree with this argument since the wagon fell apart too fast for me, but some people find that scum would counter claim a PR (like the vig) to fish him out and bus and night kill the target.
d. Jack himself has very defined reads on who's scum and town. He sticks to them (case and point the attacks Hito consistanctly). He was also one of the first people to show that Feysal and DRK could be town (except this was before DRK counter claimed my argument for DRK-town by saying: "I put what I thought was the townie answer...." ugg).

10. Whoooooooaaa Fishy has sekrit information. If my questions get answered above in that then I would love for you to post Courvis' analysis here.

11. If Benmage continues to self meta I want game references plz and thanks.

[DTMaster]

Short version of my Courvis attack. I don't feel like he's lynching Jack/AGM because he's thinks he's scum. It took, a few posts back and forth to explain why: Courvis switched from Jack town to Jack scum. I feel that the argument has been more about post-lynch information gathering, and this is an excuse not to explain the Jack-scum read. Also to something I found

To point: I'm not aware of them responding to DGB but NS and AGM did respond to me regarding PM/quicktopic and i was hoping for more but apparently things derailed on to me.

I'm confused, how did this occur?

[DTMaster]

Also I forgot to reply to this point:

I will add that someone posted that lynching me and Corv flip somehow proves what Fishy is? I don't understand this nor how you can not see that lynching Jack/AGM proves what NS is (scum in BOTH cases) and that NS scum would clearly show that I am not scum. So why lynch me for some 'nebulous' information on Fishy which doesn't make sense when lynching Jack for info on NS makes complete sense?

I asked Hito how this link could be established since I don't understand it, nor do I support this read. I'm open to the Fishy-scum is possible idea. But I'm basing my attack on your individual posts, and not people linkage. Yes the NS/Jack link is obvious. Hence why I found it odd that you had this "epiphany" only when the Jack wagon went forward and this idea was run around in thread.

That means the idea was already floating around while Jack/AGM reached L-1, and you hopped on strangely from your pro-town Jack to a sudden scum-Jack (? which I think you're arguing here but your posts before only said Jack is the best lynch without indicating your read on him).

Hence confusion because you chose not to explain your transition.

Hence why I'm asking you for motivations. I don't care that your conclusion is Jack scum. I don't care if you think Jack is town even. I want you to explain why.

[DTMaster]

AGGGGM post naoz. He did this last time in Objection Mafia and he was town V.V;;

[DTMaster]

BTW. Courvis could you explain how you're confirmed by Fish? I mean if Fish is town, why are you town? I don't see the linkage. Also did someone answer now the Manhimself's defense of NS showed that TMH is town to a NS scum?

[DTMaster]

Self note: When I get back look at the other people on Courvis' wagon. Aside from Equinox, the wagon stagnation makes me either question the other people who support my case or it's possible scum chose to invalidate further use of Equinox's wagon analysis. Or maybe it's being applied right now.

[DTMaster]

Lol I missed that... hmmm dilemma planning comes from Courvis/TMH-town is a strong argument that I can't refute. This comes from TMH's earlier: NS could be town reads, and is independent from that mess. I should mull over some stuffs. Particularity, post Jack gambit.

[DTMaster]

I have reason to believe NS is not scum. I also believe that scum doesn't have the role blocker and that

if we do have a roleblocker that role is town

. Simply put if Hito killed last night and scum tried to kill Tajo because it was claimed in thread that I would target Tajo. That also clears nopoint is up.

[DTMaster]

I'm going to true claim. I am not the town hider. I didn't hide behind anyone. I claimed to NS last night in QT that I would consider targeting Andruis because I have feeling that DGB was directing the Hito-vig. The comment I referenced was: DGB said Spyrex comments in mysterious ways hinting that DGB thought Spyrex was town going into N1. I thought since Andruis' activity could only be confirmed by DGB, that a DGB/Andruis team would be perfect in this setup.

The reason why Nopoint is mostlikely town is because scum shot Tajo last night. If Nopoint was scum, scum wouldn't try and shoot me down last night.

[DTMaster]

I'm a simple vanilla priest. :3

[DTMaster]

FYI. If scum had a role blocker and just wanted to outguess me, they'd just block Hito. It's also easy for them to frame Tajo by blocking and killing me since Tajo flipped scum.

[DTMaster]

The onnnnnllly thing that twarts this theory is scum just simply wanted to discredit me by waiting for me to claim I targeted Tajo for WTFBBQS. But that sounds counter productive since killing me is a guaranteed lynch against Tajo-town.

[DTMaster]

1. NS hasn't posted in QT. However I highly doubt that he'd ignore me because I handed him a bunch of posts saying that I could create a DGB/Andruis case and I'm really worried on that end. Especially since he gets the QTs via e-mail (mentioned multiple times). But that means there has to be scum somewhere on my team if my information leak analysis is correct. If Courvis flips scum, then there is scum somewhere on my team. I think. I should double check the dates of posts.

2. Farside: Since I claimed in thread that I targeted nopoint, that means scum believes in my ability. My clearance of nopoint relies on 2 things:

a. The roleblock not occurring on hito. Assuming that they wanted to kill me, they'd obviously kill Tajo. There's no reason why not to since both DGB and I discussed in thread that I should target Tajo. If scum had a role block, and wanted to do a 2 for 1 buffet, I would RB hito to stop the town extra kill AND do a 2 for 1 buffet. There's no reason for scum to RB me and target Tajo. Absolutely, no reason.

b. I'm alive, instead of Tajo. I claimed I would target Tajo. We know Tajo is town. Therefore an easy 2 for 1 buffet of kills would be to block/kill me rather then killing Tajo. There's no logical sense since it wasn't claimed else where that I wouldn't target Tajo (except I did to NS).

The only one who knew that I would be targeting someone else was NS.

Thus I believe that nopoint is most likely clear because scum believes in my ability. The lack of blockage on hito makes no sense from a scum POV in terms of action order. It's also easier to frame Tajo then me if scum chose to what ever reason block me and kill tajo for lulz.

[DTMaster]

Yes. Hence why if scum wanted to kill me, they wouldn't role block me. I doubt scum had a role block because Hito still shot last night. There were no claimed PRs other then hito, and honestly if scum wanted to do the 2 for one buffet they would shoot Tajo (and believe they killed me) and then block Hito to prevent town from having 2 town derived kills.

[DTMaster]

Uh no. Scum wouldn't block me. The lack of hito block concludes: no scum RBer. I'm explaining the same thing you just stated about the hider role. If nopoint was scum, and since I claimed that I hid behind him, scum would go lol wut? They would know that I was lying. They wouldn't shoot Tajo, they'd go after other more prominent figures. Tajo had the ire of the town and could draw in the vig kills because the fruit alliance hated him.

[DTMaster]

A godfather would counter all of that. Based on LLD's flip I believe we have a weak town and weak scum setup.

[DTMaster]

I couldn't post the true setup speculation till now, but I have enough reason to actually clear nopoint and maybe NS. I'm going to allow DGB/Andruis/Hito to fall under this category.

[DTMaster]

I'm doing rereads. I'm going to put LB/Equinox and Farside under good candidates as well. I've been mulling over the dilliema argument. Because I'm heavily leaning on FF scum, I'm getting a biased WIFOMY interpretation on it (lol a NS-Town and Jack/AGM-town = Courvis/TMH-scum and FF scum jumping all over dat). Logically it leans in favorite for Courvis/TMH.

Now would be a good time to post the QT analysis. Andruis has been posting in thread obvious analysis that occurred in QT. There has been less of that happening between Courvis and FF. Like I said, because Courvis chooses not to post the full analysis I'm attacking him on things he "supposedly" thought of but only posted in QT.

[DTMaster]

BTW: If you re-read LLD it doesn't help me with my bias against Fishy Fishy-scum and possibly TMH. If she got more then one things right then it'll be there somewhere. That's the only explanation that makes sense for her to be dead.

She recanted her Feysal case and changed it to the town read in light of the DRK L-1 vote.

[DTMaster]

Hell she supported my Tajo-town read :3

[DTMaster]

Man I should have reread Jack closer. The change in god-scum stance is kinda telling to the faults in Courvis' logic. It's echooing LLD's case on TMH all over again >>;;

[DTMaster]

Lol... town role interfering with me directly? (e.g. Town RB?) lols no. An unintential mistake? Possible, I'd give you that. There's only a few cases I'd expect that and that requires a mass claim to confirm. If there is a claim that directly contradicts my read on nopoint then I'd consider switching over (and I have very defined cases for this to occur). However if Town does have "that role" then the lack of blockage makes me question scum strength because "that role" can end the game for scum in under 3 days depending on the lynches.

[DTMaster]

And by knowing that we have a vig. The combination of "THAT ROLE" plus Town Vig = Town is over powered without the visable RB.

[DTMaster]

Also Andruis: I assume you had a scum read leading into the night. Because that sentence makes noooooooo seeeennnnnnnnnnssssse at al.

[DTMaster]

Nopoint: Technically, you're not confirmed since Benmage is right. My arguments are based on lies in used to uncover the truth in false role information spreading :p. (lolz at the irony). So basically a reallly, realllllllllly, convincing defence for you. It's the same as any old argument.

[DTMaster]

Explain? I just gave out my logic from my point of view in thread. Benmage has it clearly, I full claimed a blockable, investigative role day 1. The only person who would have an intent purpose to block me is scum.

1. Andruis: You said that I was lucky meaning you also advocated that shooting

Tajo is an option

. If you told Hito to shoot Tajo, and I lived that also incriminates me to be: lol wut DTM didn't hide behind Tajo AND you got rid of a read that you disliked. You said this here:

DTM, you are one lucky bastard.
I was campaigning for you being killed last night for confirming you. Good thing they didn't listen.

Like wise DGB also hinted that you guys didn't believe my claim, so you could have obviously shot me. So saying that you

didn't have a scum read on me

is stupid coming from your support of DGB and the above comments.

Andruis, DO YOU HAVE A SCUM READ ON ME OR NOT WALKING INTO NIGHT 2?

[DTMaster]

1. Courvis: A town roleblocker blocking me does not happen. No they wouldn't because that's retarded in an investigative claim. There is only 1 role where a town RBer could have blocked me, and that involves a 3rd person in this chain changing the actions. That 3rd person means town is overpowered if he is town. This goes against my original hypothesis of a weak town/weak scum game due to LL's role flip.

2. Even if NS is scum and thinks I was bluffing (lol), it's much more likely that the obvious setup in thread would be the questioned. I mean, come on it's such an obvious place to do a PR setup (watch the guy if we got a watcher and lulz it up).

3. Courvis: I don't have the role information to confirm Nopoint, but I have the logic and deduction from what the NKs turned up to say that I would consider him likely townie. I would also consider that reread the dead people due to Feysal's flip means that scum would hit the DRK wagon with one busing. The LLD death in a reread pin point

accurate reads on Tajo, Jack, and Feysal

. Thus I think it's important to look at TMH angle, which is you.

I see fishy-fish scum with you because, guess what if the god loses all his scum he loses the game. Therefore the super defense of you makes me think that LLD is right.

Likewise with the information I claimed to NS, considering that I told him that I would hide behind Andruis rather then Tajo because Andruis is still ambiguous to me should have put doubt there. Andruis claimed that he was the mastermind behind Spyrex's death. Now He's the mastermind behind Feysal. Lol wut? Scum choosing not to kill the mastermind? Scum chose to go after the guy who said if I target Tajo then I die with him? The only thing that makes sense in terms of NKs is if scum is worried about the numbers.

4. The lack of hito death also makes me go: if DGB and Andruis is scum together, wouldn't it just be grand if both were scum? It's like the game where Nikanor was the re-director and redirected the known vig every night to give scumz double kills. The ONLY DOUBT that I have with Fishy is the good deadline extension. That's the paranoia getting to me.

I'm not part of the QT talks, but out of all of them the only one that can confirm your actions are:

Courvis - Fishy
Andruis - DGB

I lean towards Andruis - DGB town and Courvis - Fishy scum more so because Andruis has been giving out reasons for reads. Hence post infos about your QT nao pls k thnks. You said you've explained many things in your QT. You've done a full read of the players in the QT. Summary and post plz.

5. Explain? I have yet to reread Feysal but I don't see the Courvis town - Feysal scum link.

6. Courvis: I'm clearing NS more so because of what I posted in QT and what happened over night. NS, knowing before anyone else, knew I would claim hider. NS, if scum had a RB, could kill me or make me "clear scum". In thread, NS, if NS-scum wanted to do an easy frame lynch, would just need to kill me to frame Tajo and boom get town to lose their lynch to a mislynch, and get 2 scum directed kills.

7. Andruis: I want your thoughts, not just the temple's bloc. You went woooow. Then went temple decree. I'm not interested in DGB's opinion since it's known. You're flip flopping in thread.

[DTMaster]

@Equinox
1. Uhhh, did you remember my day 1. I cited Natural Order Resolution. I was corrected by LLD that the hider could be blocked. So no I didn't. But then I decided to maintain the hider claim because I could draw the blocks away from other people. Due to last night's actions I am certain that there's no scum blocks since Hito shot twice and still lived, and Tajo died. Thus I true claimed since it's not necessary. Plus as a VT I wouldn't be drawing kills, but I could direct them.

@Andruis
No the read is relevent. I want you to put your arguments in context with what you lead into the night. I give shit all if you think I'm scum now. I care more that going into the night you had a scum read on me because it means you are consistent with your scum hunting. This consistency is more important because it's a tell that you're sticking to your guns and making your own reads.

I explained to NS that DGB was wrong that Lost Butterfly should have maintained the Courvis vote last day and not joined a wagon (nopoint vs AGM). The reason was LB is consistent in that she found both players town and wouldn't lynch them. This tell tells me that LB is putting time and effort in crafting reads, like you are.

So saying that this information irks me. But you answered the question, and that's good.

[DTMaster]

err EBWOP: Saying that this information is irrelevant irks me. I maintain the DGB-Andruis town read over my Andruis-DGB scum read.

[DTMaster]

Wait. Andruis you thought I was scummier then Feysal going into N2? Right?

[DTMaster]

As a bright side NS is still consistent:

It was a three word claim. MORE LIES FROM NS.

The details are maintained.

[DTMaster]

Did Andruis just lie in thread right now?

I advocated a Feysal kill because he was a scum-read.

Hoooooly hell DTM.
..
DTM, you are one lucky bastard.
I was campaigning for you being killed last night for confirming you. Good thing they didn't listen.

Hito, Andruis wanted both Feysal and me dead. Please confirm the order of preference to who he wanted dead. It should be DTM > Feysal. Also confirm if you said that you preferred the Feysal kill/DGB preferred this. Something about the above statement doesn't make sense from Andruis' motivations.

[DTMaster]

Rereading is tech. Nvm. Just Hito confirm that Andruis preferred the DTM kill over Feysal (since DGB preferred Feysal over DTM) then my mind is at ease.

[DTMaster]

I know, hence why I wanted to make sure your order of preference in said list is confirmed by Hito. You advocated for my death, but stated that you also advocated for Feysal at the same time. If you didn't express preference that the fact that you said that "I'm a lucky bastard" blah blah you're lucky that the others didn't listen to me means that you're back tracking and putting the DTM case on DGB's shoulders not your own.

Scum puts blame on others. Town wear their cases like it's their mantel at arms.

[DTMaster]

I'm confused Equinox: I thought fishy asked everyone but Farside to claim because Farside said she didn't trust FF and FF didn't want to bother with Farside's no statement.

[DTMaster]

farside22, has Fishythefish asked you to claim in QuickTopic?

I may as well answer this - after I said that NS was scum, I asked everyone but farside to claim. I thought there was no chance at all she would.

Wait, why is TMH/NS impossible again?

...this doesn't sound right, Fishythefish. There's no harm in asking. If farside22 didn't want to claim, she'd have said so. Why did you hesitate?

No harm in asking, but no point in asking. farside had made it clear she didn't trust me, and doesn't seem the type for claiming if she's not confident in me. Why bother just to be told no?

There's been no point in the game that I've felt I've known farside's role, or attempted to give that impression - where are you referring to, farside?.

Post here. Story doesssn''''t make sense!

[DTMaster]

Oh I'm probably not clear enough for Courvis: Yes it's my gut that NS and DGB are both town. NS for case outlined. DGB is town for pushing on me, it's consistent with DGB and everything she's done in game so far. So FF is scum. Now I'm wondering about the FF-Farside connection due to Equinox's point about the claims?

[DTMaster]

Courvis: You said that both DTM-Town and Nopoint town is likely. You ended off with a DTM is town read. But you also stated that Nopoint is still a favoured lynch even though you see the connection of Nopoint town. Explain clearly why Nopoint is still a favoured alternative lynch when you've just said that Nopoint is likely town?

[DTMaster]

@Andruis
Courvis was the QT summary (since Fishy and Courvis both stated they would post their analysis). I don't need you to post yours because you post snidbits like this one. You outline your intents. Courvis/Fishy went: I confirm each other cause it's awesome. You take the next step and show why XYZ is scum and that makes you more awesome (ITS AWESOMER! LOLZ). I just wanted to make sure that it was shown by the other players you pushed for my death. That's all that I needed. I can expect Hito to confirm that the DTM kill came up, and makes me have warm fuzzy feelings.

@Equinox
In my rereads, this bothered me. Just to make this clear the time lines are about the same, and WE ARE TALKING about THE SAME THING. I quoted what I'm having confusion about. (The whole: Courvis already claimed to FF as said by him, so why is Courvis saying that he didn't claim now?).

[DTMaster]

You belong together

[DTMaster]

Uh. what? I couldn't be tracked to Tajo I'm not a hider.

[DTMaster]

No Actually I'm confused because why would someone use the bus action on me?

[DTMaster]

No seriously, why would someone use bus on the guy who claimed hider? It's the only way both of our information pieces are correct.

[DTMaster]

Before I die, do not call DGB scum. Also we have a town busdriver. That's all. Both of our analysis are correct

Vote DTMaster

[DTMaster]

Because the Town Bus Driver knows who is scum since he targeted me. I suggest he claims, or lest the noise continue.

[DTMaster]

But for real last thoughts: Nopoint is cleared by me. FF is scum. one of Courvis and Farside is scum

[DTMaster]

I just realized that the bus drive has to be town, because busing me is actually quite pro town.

[DTMaster]

Because you know you claimed information against me and if I were in your position I wouldn't believe the whole: both DTM and DGB is telling the truth angle. Claim your infos, lynch me then go WTF. Then let my death note that DGB is telling the truth and nopoint is clear.

[DTMaster]

Also Farside and Courvis is probs scum with FF. end statement.

[DTMaster]

In blue, to make it more godly:

But DTMaster is totally 100% confirmed scum.

He was tracked to tajo.

You posted the above. If someone did that I would believe this information. I would lynch myself due to this post. But I'm town. So to prove that I'll pay in blood or wait for a bus drive claim.

[DTMaster]

AKA you're claiming for your priesthood. If I was smart I would assign people. Probably hito. Andruis is probably the real vig.

[DTMaster]

Cooooooonfused now.

[DTMaster]

@Farside
Yes. The busdriver obviously wanted me to absorb a kill which is the pro town method. From the front page:

1. Roleblocks
2. Protections
3. Misc. 1
4. Kills
a. Mafia Kills
b. Serial Killer Kills
c. Vigil Kills
d. Other Kills (say what!?)
5. Misc. 2
6. Investigations

The bus and the hide will resolve at the same time. So if Busdriver busses me and scum (or another person who targetted Tajo) and DGB claims a track on me, that means:

Bus driver targets DTM and person A
DGB's Tracker targets DTM and saw person A target Tajo
Person A is likely scum candidate, but it's not definite depending on what he claims.

@Fishy
Wait. What? You didn't ask Courvis to claim contrary to earlier statements? But before you said that

the only reason you didn't ask Farside to claim

was that she publicy stated in the QT that she distrusted you. If find it hard to believe that you'd forget your own actions and questioning.

@Benmage
Um.. that's not important. DGB claimed a track. She's claiming on behalf of someone for obv reasons. >>;; Why did you ask? That's like a major slip.

@DGB/Lost Butterfly
I've played OOT Mafia. I'm smart enough to consider the possibility that Hito is not the vig ala OOT of time when all the Mason Goddesses swapped roles with each other. Hence why I gave my read on whose who. There's one last possibility that I didn't consider, but DGB's question made me realize it. Scum could have a RBer and targeted Hito. However, that relies that Nopoint is cleared by other obvious reasons even if Hito is not the Vig but was RBed.

The stance remains on Nopoint, he's clear town.

Vote Benmage

. I need to double check on the Courvis/Farside FF linkage. I don't mind LB's tunneling since it's an action claim against me.

[DTMaster]

Hmmm. Equinox and Faraday/Mina both were questioned about their claims. Courvis gave his claim freely. Farside was ignored. I feel like FF is covering someone's tracks for some reason. I find it hard to believe that he'd just forget someone's claim or that he forgot to question someone after questioning two people about their claims.

[DTMaster]

Wait. Fishy said Courvis preemptivly claimed. Courvis said he didn't claim/wasn't asked to claim. Uh.. wut. Why isn't the QT talk in the Temple of Time matching up in thread?

[DTMaster]

Equinox/Courvis/FF WTH is going on?

[DTMaster]

Because busing me would absorb kills since I claimed hider D1/D2. It totally makes sense from his POV. I find that to be a pro-town reason, unless you're saying that he's trying to predict the vig shots, which doesn't really make sense to why he would target me,

Also a scum bus-driver with a hider claim could attempt to frame my target by redirecting my target. Bussing to me (evident by the track result) makes no sense for that. Also If I instead of absorbing NKs in the above manner, I would try and redirect the kill back to Hito rather then target me as scum. If you're going to put time and effort as scum to bus someone, with the claimed killing role and the claimed "weak" type role I'd rather get a second kill via redirection/bussing.

[DTMaster]

You're fifteen years too late LB. Rap is totally out of style. It's all about the autotune!

[DTMaster]

Oh Hito: The only other way that a bus driver could be scum and would want to frame me is that if one of your priesthood has access to the tracker's target "induces paranoia!!! that there is a bad bad fruit there"

But I doubt it for some reason.

[DTMaster]

They don't have to get the name. You could format the PM to be like: You see your target target XX. Otherwise Cops would get their names in their results/etc.

[DTMaster]

BTW: I'm not at L-1/L-2 you can keep that vote of yours on me. Most of the people are waiting for DGB to come in with the infos. I'm waiting for LLD/Courvis/Equinox to look more into the QT discrepancy because that's just so weird.

Make your Vote Mine <3

[DTMaster]

Its one of Farside/Courvis

Benmage - DTM = VTs
Equinox - LB = Jumped on my wagon rapidly
2 of Andruis/Hito/Nopoint = Vig and Tracker. The last one is confirm not to be it via QT for obv reasons.
Gods = known roles.

I could almost say that Farside is not the Busdriver because she asked me how did a BD would clear me. Thus it's Courvis. If Courvis is the Busdriver, then scum is on Farside.