War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)
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Xylthixlm !xmafia win
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/confirm
Fun fact of the day: the only two non-Indo-European languages that English has borrowed irregular pluralizations from are Hebrew (Seraphim, Cherubim) and Japanese (Samurai, Ninja, Pokemon).#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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I don't see any need to subvert the hurt/heal mechanism. Just try to concentrate your fire on people who are already hurt, rather than wearing everyone down at once. That will make it harder for scum to suddenly kill townies using secret damage.
As several people have said, a fast-paced game helps the town even more than normal. Expect scum to try to slow it down by lurking.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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This game is pretty much vanilla nightless with a strange voting mechanic. As long as we don't bring people down to low HP without killing them, or take so long that the scum get enough "rage points" to kill someone with lots of HP, the town can completely control the order people die in. Vanilla nightless is usually biased towards the town; there's no reason we should lose.
It looks like the once-per-24-hours limit isn't enough to seriously slow down the speed at which the town can kill people, but if there are a lot of people sitting around doing nothing or (even worse) healing everyone who gets hurt, it might be a problem. Automatic healing is ahorribleidea and will just slow the game down, which gives the scum an advantage.
While I'm at it,
Hurt: JulsXylthixlm draws his shiny golden Hammer of Justice. He waits until Juls's back is turned, then flies up and bops him over the head. SQUEAK!#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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# Albert B. Rampage - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Nuwen,Kinetic(1)
# Cybele - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: q21 (1)
# Drench - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# DrippingGoofball - Hurt by: Hoopla (1) Healed by: Cybelle (1)
# Giuseppe - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# Hoopla - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# Juls - Hurt by: Xylthixlm (1) Healed by: (0)
# Kinetic - Hurt by: roflcopter (1) Healed by: (0)
# Nuwen - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Albert B. Rampage (1)
# populartajo - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Tenchi (1)
# q21 - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: populartajo (1)
# roflcopter - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: DrippingGoofball (1)
# Seraphim - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Shinnen_no_Me (1)
# Shinnen_no_Me - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Seraphim (1)
# Tenchi - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# The Fonz - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# vIQleS - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# WaltWishbone - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# Xylthixlm - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Juls (1)
# zwetschenwasser - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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zwetschenwasser is scum. Everyone help me kill him.zwetschenwasser wrote:What the heck? Why on earth did you hurt Juls? Did you miss the agreement that rage points can be less effective if everyone is healthier?Heal: JulsVote: Xyl#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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If there are ANY players who are lurking and not giving inputKinetic wrote:Think of it like this: If there are 2-3 players out of 20 who are lurking, I can get behind not waiting for them. That is a small group. If there are 12-14 players not giving input I cannot get behind said lynch/kill.we kill them first.
This is not negotiable.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Kinetic needs to die, too. Trying to slow the game down, scum? We're not giving you any extra rage points.Kinetic wrote:The more I think about it, the more I feel the best scum strategy is a highly aggressive one. Especially if they can make it look townie to be aggressive.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Fixed.Drench wrote:Oh yeah. Xyl is suggesting we finish off everyone that loses abitlot of health instead ofspreading around the joy painletting the scum choose which ones to finish. The he suggests wecut down on the information gatheringgather information as fast as possible. You know, to hurt the scum.
Perfectly normal.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Sorry. I wasn't sure Kinetic was scum yet and didn't want to wait any longer to use my action.roflcopter wrote:i wish everyone hadn't wasted their action healing people so they could be hurting kinetic instead
Unfortunately I think if we try to kill Kinetic, zwet will heal him, so we might need to kill zwet first.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Missed this because of the new page.
Wow, I've found three scum already. DGB will be proud.Juls wrote:Xyl, you didn't have to agree with the mass-heal plan or heal me but to hurt me for no apparent reason just shows that you are reckless (which is anti-town).
Vote: Xyl#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Drench, maybe you missed this post.
Those things are good ideas becauseXylthixlm wrote:This game is pretty much vanilla nightless with a strange voting mechanic. As long as we don't bring people down to low HP without killing them, or take so long that the scum get enough "rage points" to kill someone with lots of HP, the town can completely control the order people die in. Vanilla nightless is usually biased towards the town; there's no reason we should lose.
It looks like the once-per-24-hours limit isn't enough to seriously slow down the speed at which the town can kill people, but if there are a lot of people sitting around doing nothing or (even worse) healing everyone who gets hurt, it might be a problem. Automatic healing is ahorribleidea and will just slow the game down, which gives the scum an advantage.they let the town completely control the order in which people die. That's exactly what the scum doesn't want to happen.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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You mean theJuls wrote:Oh you found three scum did you? Please...enlighten me on what it was that I did that was so scummy in all 2 posts I made before your hurt.threeposts before I called you scum.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Xylthixlm !xmafia win
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Seraphim should not use their blades unless we get into a damage race. Transparency in damage is more important.Nuwen wrote:What're everyone's thoughts on Seraphim blades? It makes most sense to use the blade every cooldown since it allows for 1 1/3 average damage per day versus 1 damage without using the blade. In the last game, it was suggested thatallplayers mention a blade in order to mask the Seraphim's identity. Are we going to do something similar?
Note: if we disguise extra town damage, we also risk masking the source of rage damage.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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You are too eager to be healed, and too anxious about being hurt. Your reflexive OMGUSing is painful to watch. Die scum.Juls wrote:Oh you found three scum did you? Please...enlighten me on what it was that I did that was so scummy in all 2 posts I made before your hurt.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Pinky, are you thinking what I'm thinking?DrippingGoofball wrote:
Day One is for dragging the scum out of their comfort zone, kicking and screaming.q21 wrote:*facepalm*
I hate the way you do this. Really hate it. It's useless.
Fast ball, fast ball, screwball, fast ball, change up, fast ball.
Keep them nervous and guessing.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Reference FAIL!
Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?DrippingGoofball wrote:
Day One is for dragging the scum out of their comfort zone, kicking and screaming.q21 wrote:*facepalm*
I hate the way you do this. Really hate it. It's useless.
Fast ball, fast ball, screwball, fast ball, change up, fast ball.
Keep them nervous and guessing.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Cool.DrippingGoofball wrote:
I am.Xylthixlm wrote:Pinky, are you thinking what I'm thinking?
High five!
I think we need to give it another 24 hours or so, to give the scum a chance to make themselves really obvious.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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You can form a group of people to vote if you want. I'm not in it. And if you plan to heal up all damage not done by your group,populartajo wrote:Fonz, rolf and Xyl
WHATS SO FUCKING WRONG WITH TREATING THIS GAME AS NORMAL GAME WITH VOTING INSTEAD OF HURTING?thatis incredibly anti-town.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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So, you only healed me because you expected a heal back?Juls wrote:A plan was proposed to heal. Most people were exchanging heals. I made the mistake of choosing you to be the person I healed. I expected a heal back. That is not eager.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Xylthixlm !xmafia win
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I've only mentioned you once.vIQleS wrote:Just so it's on record - my picks for scum at this point are Xyl, DGB, and albert.
That probably seems a bit OMGUS, but the fact that they're focussing on me instead of someone who's really scummy is really scummy.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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# Albert B. Rampage - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Nuwen,Kinetic(1)
# Cybele - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: q21 (1)
# Drench - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# DrippingGoofball - Hurt by: Hoopla (1) Healed by: Cybelle (1)
# Giuseppe - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# Hoopla - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# Juls - Hurt by: Xylthixlm (1) Healed by: zwetschenwasser (1)
# Kinetic - Hurt by: roflcopter (1) Healed by: (0)
# Nuwen - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Albert B. Rampage (1)
# populartajo - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Tenchi (1)
# q21 - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: populartajo (1)
# roflcopter - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: DrippingGoofball (1)
# Seraphim - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Shinnen_no_Me (1)
# Shinnen_no_Me - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Seraphim (1)
# Tenchi - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# The Fonz - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# vIQleS - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# WaltWishbone - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: vIQleS (1)
# Xylthixlm - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Juls,Drench(1)
# zwetschenwasser - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Mafia is a game of killing people. Discussion is only useful as a way of knowing who to kill first.q21 wrote:Mafia is a game of discussion. Its only a game of manipulation if you're scum. How many times have you been successfully manipulative as scum? How many times have you been unsuccessfully manipulative as town?#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Partially right, partially wrong. People who are talking more tend to look scummier, just because they have more opportunities to say something you disagree with. If you haven't learned to correct for that, you should go after the lurkers first. If you have, you should go after the scummy people, who will usually be the lurkers anyways.Seraphim wrote:I think we need to lynch actual scummy people first and then worry about lurkers/non-participators.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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WaltWishbone is a scummy lurker. Read his post.Seraphim wrote:@Xyl
Juls and WaltWishbone are lurking, correct?
I also think it's important to sort out the lurkers from the scummy lurkers. Generally, scum lurkers will either say less or pretend that they're saying something when they're not.
Juls is OMGUSing rather than scumhunting.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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For those too lazy to find WaltWishbone's only post:
Translation: "I want to look like I'm contributing, but am unwilling to actually take a position on anything. I'm just going to sit here and let the town reach a decision and then I can pretend I supported it all along."WaltWishbone wrote:So I am not sure I have a complete understanding of the way this game works, however I am comfortable making a few early observations. I do not feel confident enough yet to make a vote or hurt/heal anyone.
My initial thoughts from reading the first six pages are; Cybele, Hoopla, and Kinetics opening posts came across as very honest and containend an element of truth which would indicate they had no idea what kind of Rage, ect abilities scum may have. Although, I do understand a couple of points made against Kinetic, I would have a hard time voting for him at this point. I think ABR has put in lot of detail into his research and subsequent reasoning behind his post however I want to go back and reread the first 6 pages (as well as the previous game) before elaborating.
I am a bit torn between two different stratagies, I do however agree with going with a majority. I am not sure whether it would be best to hold onto my hurt/heal until the rest of the players have a chance to check in and and add their thoughts or if I should return the favor and heal vIQleS? (thanks by the way )
One thing I am not clear about in the rules is how time works in this set-up? In otherwords, do we have 24 hours from Mr. Flay's post to hurt/heal someone 1 time? Tomorrow by 7am? Also if we dont use a hurt/heal does it carry over to the next 24 hour period?
I am gonna reread everything now and try to get a better handle on how this set-up works, thanks for any advice.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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I agree withDrippingGoofball wrote:
Good catch, though not as much of a shining beacon of grovelling for mercy as WaltWishbone.Nuwen wrote:Cybele wrote:Also: I really do agree with the idea of fake-voting instead of hurting. New mechanics means we need to adapt.Yosarian2DrippingGoofball.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Healing up people who aren't under active attack is a good idea. Healing up people who have a real wagon on them is counterproductive.Kinetic wrote:I'm thinking the pushers for attacks are right. Once we have decided on a "lynch" can we at least agree that it isn't a bad thing to heal the other players if there is a lot of harm going around?
People arguing about voting systems, random hurting, etc, etc, need to keep in mind two indisputable facts:
1) In the end, the thing that will determine whether the town wins or loses isthe order in which people die. Nothing more, nothing less. We need to make sure scum die before townies as much as possible.
2) The scum get more influence over who dies with every week that passes.
#2 means that, if they're smart, the scum will be trying to slow the game down. Keep an eye on who is acting to slow the game down, and who is acting to keep it moving. If we're willing to punish people for slowing the game, that will mean the scum will have to help keep the pace up, which will be good for the town.
Here's some math:
The scum get a kill roughly every 2 weeks (more if we bring people down to low HP and leave them there a lot, less if we kill several scum early).
The town gets as many lynches as we want.
There are probably at most 5 scum.
If scum get close to a majority, they can heal to prevent the town from killing in a reasonable time, and force a win using rage. Call that -2 mislynches.
So, depending on our lynch speed, our number of mislynches before we go lose goes down:
If we kill once a day, we get around 8 mislynches.
If we kill once every 2 days, we get around 7 mislynches.
If we kill once every 4 days, we get around 6 mislynches.
If we kill once every 7 days, we get around 5 mislynches.
If we kill once every 10 days, we get get around 4 mislynches.
If we kill once every 14 days, we get get around 3 mislynches.
So... how much deliberation before each kill do you think is worth losing a mislynch?#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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In the long game TOWN LOSES. We have to win fast or we won't win at all.populartajo wrote:Its DETRIMENTAL to town in the long game when we are going to have all people at L-2 and scum distributing rage points for winning the game.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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I just did the complete math a couple of posts ago. You're underestimating how powerful 1 kill / 2 weeks is.populartajo wrote:
I agree with a deadline. 48 hours? Why is that? We know that scum possibly gets rage poitns after a week.Tenchi wrote:
I wouldn't wait that long. I'd rather have a deadline, and see who has the most votes by then. Getting a majority with 10 people usually ends up with a lynch that "everyone agrees with". And you know what happens when "everyone agrees"...populartajo wrote:Fixed Votecount.
10 to massive hurting
...Townies get lynched.
Let's agree on a deadline. Better if somebody does the math.
Also, if my calculations are right, scum can onlykillsomeone (Ophan with 7 HPs) with rage points after 2 weeks. Assuming 4 scum, every scum gets 1 rage point every week.
If we control the random hurtings, scum wouldnt even have a chance to hurt secretly people since everyone but the current suspect would be at their toppings and we could heal everyone attempted to get hurt. They will have to waste all their rage points in someone to kill it.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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If Walt is scum, we kill a scum.populartajo wrote:With 1 post, wouldnt hurt to hear more about him, dont you think?
If Walt is town, we kill someone who is slowing the game down.
Seems like win/win to me. And I think Walt has a pretty good chance of being scum.
I haven't looked at Shinnen. Kinetic and DGB are both posting enough that I don't want them to die too early. vIQ is vaguely scummy but there are better people to kill.populartajo wrote:Thoughts about viqles, Shinnen, Kinetic and DGB?#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Come help us with Walt instead.roflcopter wrote:poptajo is losing all town credit at an incredible rate
seraphim and hoopla need to die post haste, and every 24 hours i will be hurting seraphim until he is dead, then i'll start on hoopla
hoopla healing kinetic is extra scummy#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Hurt: WaltWishboneXylthixlm once again draws his Golden Hammer. Raising it high, he flies above the bewildered crowd of angels. Then he drops it and it lands on WaltWishbone's head. SQUEAK!#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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# Albert B. Rampage - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Nuwen,Kinetic(1)
# Cybele - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: q21 (1)
# Drench - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# DrippingGoofball - Hurt by: Hoopla (1) Healed by: Cybelle (1)
# Giuseppe - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# Hoopla - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# Juls - Hurt by: Xylthixlm (1) Healed by: zwetschenwasser (1)
# Kinetic - Hurt by: roflcopter (1) Healed by: Hoopla (1)
# Nuwen - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Albert B. Rampage (1)
# populartajo - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Tenchi (1)
# q21 - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: populartajo (1)
# roflcopter - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: DrippingGoofball (1)
# Seraphim - Hurt by: roflcopter (1) Healed by: Shinnen_no_Me (1)
# Shinnen_no_Me - Hurt by: Albert B. Rampage (1) Healed by: Seraphim (1)
# Tenchi - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# The Fonz - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# vIQleS - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# WaltWishbone - Hurt by: DrippingGoofball, Xylthixlm (2) Healed by: vIQleS (1)
# Xylthixlm - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Juls,Drench(1)
# zwetschenwasser - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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This is the only opinion about towniness/scumminess in the above post that was not hedged.WaltWishbone wrote:I agree with Hoopla, the whole discussion between ABR and Kinetic, came across as a difference of opinions in strategy between two Townies. I don't think either look scummy at this point, just at odds.
Scummy and noncommittal indeed. DGB, you better not jump to someone else like the squirrel with ADD you are.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Walt: Perhaps you don't understand the theory behind counting mislynches. It's quite common as a way of gauging just how much trouble the town is in.
We start with ~8 mislynches.
Lynch a townie: -1 mislynch.
Lynch a scum: +1 mislynch.
Scum get a kill: -1 mislynch.
When the number of mislynches remaining goes to 0, town loses.
Obviously, we want to lynch correctly, so our mislynch buffer goes up. But it's important to know how many mislynches are left because it tells ushow badly we could possibly do at scumhunting and still not lose. In this case, the slower we go, the more kills scum get, the less buffer have, and the better we will need to be at scumhunting to compensate.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Bog standard. I think I've only played on a scumteam with him once, but he had a serious case of "information instead of analysis" that game.Kinetic wrote:Xyl, can you give me some insight into Seraphim's playstyle?#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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I think I like this idea more now. Our first target is WaltWishbone. Once he's dead, someone else picks the next target.roflcopter wrote:speaking of organize, i'm organizing a brute squad, and inducting the following obviously town people into it immediately: abr, xyl, dgb, and tajo (if he'll accept). we should all agree on one person and put them down. over and over, until we've killed all the scum.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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After actually reading his first few posts, I'm pretty sure Seraphim is town this game.Xylthixlm wrote:
Bog standard. I think I've only played on a scumteam with him once, but he had a serious case of "information instead of analysis" that game.Kinetic wrote:Xyl, can you give me some insight into Seraphim's playstyle?#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Xylthixlm !xmafia win
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Someone needs to die first. Walt is not obvtown. What's the problem?populartajo wrote:Walt is at least neutral. I dont see the case on him nor the necessity to hurt him to death like Xyl is proposing.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Xylthixlm !xmafia win
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Seraphim wrote:Rofl's crazy attacking is noted.Seraphim wrote:vIQleS sticks out as the scummiest player so far in the game.
^ All of these are things I'm pretty sure scum-Seraphim wouldn't say.Seraphim wrote:I'm not reading Xyl as scum ...#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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