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NAH
Because I've only done this in every OTHER game I have played at least since Mini 630. Even if I did random vote I doubt you'd get much from it....and so it begins...
Vote: Forbiddanlight for voting the mod which offers absolutely no information to the other players of this town... or space station as the case may be.
Isn't that Nat's meta as well? Just what I've observed.I'd voye For but if its meta.
Vote: Natrishka
Self voting in the random voting stange = scummy.
In Tar games, second guessing the mod appears to be the norm. Ah, maybe I'm getting too into Mind Screw mode.I dont think second guessing the mod, or trying to figure out the setup is productive.
That said, forbiddan seems very keen on people FOSing a lot.
Mind Screw. I seriously should have vigged him or called for his lynch at that point. But I didn't know that policy at the time.
When the hell was lynching any survivor claim NOT the default.
I won Mind Screw 2 as an SK off the back of a Survivor Rolecop Lover Mason claim.
Oh god who the hell let you in?veerus ur fosing me
y
hi forbiddan r u mafier
Well, first, it's a tar game. That's all you really need
Mind explaining why you think its a null tell?
Hey listen. You and Cybele aren't connected, nor did I ever say you are. I in fact, intimated that you were both survivors. So, let's see what the survivor role is. A third party that tries to last to endgame, wins with any faction as long as they are alive. I highly doubt you two are connected. Don't try to make it look like I am connecting you. That's a strawman, k thx.
There was nothing magical about it. I gave my reasons for my vote, explained as much as I felt I needed to, and voted him. Cybele immediately following like he's attached to my ass is more on him than on me.
As for your obvious attempts to link the two of us together, maybe you should do a little more research. In my first serious post of this game (123) I noted the very thing everyone is voting Cybele for and FOSed him for it. 7 posts before Arlex voted for Cybele, which was his first vote.
Speaking of fallacies, you engaged in one of the most incredible strawmans I have ever seen. Good show on the scumminess, survivor man. I'm not connecting you and cybele. Your reasons for voting nat are his role. Yeah...NO. Get evidence next time, k thx, and try to avoid giving your opponents stances you can actually beat when they have you pinned.
Ah, what a perfect example of Ad hominem without being aggressive (which it seems many people on this forum incorrectly assume is needed for an Ad hominem attack).
You either disagree with my conclusions or otherwise don't believe they are right, but instead of arguing against them you make an attack against me (he's most likely a survivor, thus he must be wrong not because the argument is wrong, but because he's a survivor.)
Sorry, that doesn't fly, and for trying to tie me to Cybele without doing a little research which would show that very unlikely, and using a fallacious argument to try and discredit me further I FOS:forbiddenlight.
Well, to be fair, this is bullshit too. We vote scum who just want to win, do we not? I reject this line of logic. But, this does imply third party. However, given the two win conditions, you could be aligned elsewhere as well...confusing :S.
So...let me understand your logic, Kinetic...your voting me because...wait...your voting me because...your voting me because I want to win?
A third party is for all intents and purposes not scum. Survivor masons sounds farfetched. I'm not connecting you two no matter how much ad nauseum you throw at me. You two are probably survivors, of different flavors, since instantly a bandwagon forms on the biggest threat to you. Hmmm...
You are connecting us together, both implicitly and explicitly. Just because you're linking us together as survivors and not mafia does not mean you did not EXPLICITLY argue a link. Even in your rebuttal you used the SAME link to try and prove you didn't make a link. In fact you VOTED Cybele even though by your own admission you don't think that he's scum! If you DIDN'T think he was scum then why did you vote for him? All you have is a possibility that he MIGHT be a survivor based on an argument I made and that he (albeit way too quickly) agreed with.
Bullshit. I never connected you two, and anyone THINKING could tell that.
There is no strawman in my argument.
End of conversation. I'm not going to fight semantics here. You said it, if you didn't mean that, then say that you didn't mean to, but don't turn it around on me because what you said (and continue to say) is very clear.
Because I'm right
If you want to have a logical fallacy-off, I can play that game too, but it's just a distraction. I show you how your argument is a fallacy, you show me how mine could be a fallacy, blah blah blah. In the meantime the scum win. I'm going to end it here and now before it becomes a distraction.
If you don't think you'll actually be lynched for it. It's WIFOM. I would take an obvious chance like that if I thought I could pull out. It really depends on your confidence, not the situation.
Forbiddenlight: You may want to rethink that whole 'Cybele is a survivor' theory. The biggest gap: I've my recent actions have, effectively, thrown myself into the fire, something rather counterintuitive for a survivor, dont'cha think? Also, I'd tell you why I'm not likely to be scumbuddies with Kinetic, but he's already beat me to it.
Also, FL's apparent confidence that there ARE two survivors seems suspicious. FOS: forbiddanlight
Lakitu in Mushroom Kingdom.
IF the scum also have two win conditions, in NO WAY can one of those win conditions be pro-town. Why? Betrayal. If a scummer has a scum win condition and a town win condition, then he can just tell the town who his scum buddies are, lynch them, and win with the town.
Nat has information. I'd like to pull as much as we can out of him and discard him if we decide he's a scum neutral. You however, have not shown any promise of information at all, which is intriguing. Hence, why I vote you between these candidates.
THUS if a scum has another win condition, that win condition must either be neutral, survivor, or scum related. I was thinking this when I was preparing to enter the game (I wanted to join from the beginning, because I was intrigued, but the game closed up before I came back to the site). When Nat basically jumped up and said "Hey, I have a 'neutral' second win condition", ... well, yea, you can put 2 and 2 together now if you want to. But that is why I wanted him to reveal his win conditions, because I wanted to see if I could get him to slip without any help from anyone else...
So, did anyone ELSE notice this in veerus' post?at the very least, anti-me and quite likely anti-town. FOS: Empking
Hmmph...I still don't like it. Given all the hubaloo about survivors a neutral win condition scares me, and everyone would claim their other condition is town. However, I can't fault that most everyone likely has a neutral win condition.
I don't understand your problem with that statement but I'm guessing your lack of knowledge in the theme is the reason for that. Since this IS a theme game that the mod didn't require background knowledge for, I'll try to explain.
In my win conditions, there are four opposing factions mentioned (something that I'm sure is true for most, if not all, players). As I actually know the story of Babylon 5, one of the win conditions specifies factions that I wouldn't exactly call scum, thus the reason for the differentiation.
Nyeh, two words explain each of these problems
forbidden: Even joking not to found of the OMGUS FOS for veerus Post 37: This seems very unhelpful. Post 52: How does voting for the mod help move the game to real scum hunting? Post 57 then why the FOS on EmpKing?
No, actually, what you said in that game was that the town should keep you around because you have neat powers.
...what? I never claimed to get more powers in MS2. I claimed to be an ability cop(which was partially true), and a survivor(which was also partially true). The whole Lover-Mason thing was because I thought Malthy had Inversion.
Why?I'm believe Nat's claim.
Either way, that's just further justification. My main reason stretches back to early D1 discussion. Lynch all non town.Well, I was talking about my ability cop ability...
So did his survivor claim in Mind Screw II. Null TellMafiaSSK wrote:He makes it seem believable.forbiddanlight wrote:Why?I'm believe Nat's claim.
Actually, I want to see him fall on his face so I can laugh.
Does anyone have a reason to support the plan other than blind faith that Kinetic has actually broken the game?
Given other Tar games, scum don't need our help to fake claim. Tar likely has a "Mafia falseclaim" ability for the scum or any anti town faction.
I don't think it will work whether I claim or not. Scum will just fake claim now that we've made it so easy for them.
This, though he might know scum abilities if he's scum .
I don't see the point of the claim other than the fact that you think you've broken the game, despite the fact you know nothing of scum's abilities that could be aided by a mass claim and the fact that the mod is experienced and highly unlikely to have made it so easy.
Well, that's one win condition. Can we really trust Nat's other?
The other one is, as you suspect; the anti-vorlon, the vorlon version of Nat's faction. The reason that I fully believe Nat's claim is that I'm from this faction. If you don't believe me, go on and lynch Nat (or me). Since the role PM's are exposed in the death scene, you'll see that I'm right.
Mafia Falseclaim.
Why would two win conditions that have similar structure and be confirmed by the other(i.e. this whole game, I've been targeting survivors) be different?
forbiddan, yes, this is a Tar game, but this is not a Mind Screw game. He is not out to screw us over, he's simply modding. And your flagrant use of meta is not useful either.
That also wasn't a theme game, was it? He's also done more games. I think his more recent games are more of an indicator of what he'd do in this game.
Look for Tar's first game, Mostly Mountainous. The mafia did not have the Mafia Falseclaim ability.
Malthusis: By rejecting my Anti-Shadow claim, you are also rejecting hp[leaves] Anti-Vorlon claim.
...are you just reading the words mind screw and not reading the rest of what I say? Or are you honestly this ridiculous? I'm not even talking about a mechanic that's mind screwy. It appeared there, but honestly, any well run theme game would make use of that ability or something similar to give the scum fakeclaims. I honestly don't think Tar would leave it out.FL, just because the mod did something in one game, doesn't mean he would do the same thing in another game. Your wild and unbased theories are ridiculous and distracting. This isn't MS so get over it already.
This. What are you attempting, Kinetic?
....Or all the sharing of information just gives the informed minorities a better idea of who to kill? Have you ever even played mafia?
You know my stance. I only support the plan if you fullclaim with it.
I'd greatly like to hear from other people, I just want to know from you if you'd try and derail the claim if the majority of people supported it.
Yeah, I was tired when I was thinking. I don't think you are scummy as of yet. I do think Cybele is for what I was attacking him for earlier.Yeah.
The goal is to have scummy people claim first fl, so that the people who think are most likely scum and therefore have the most reason to lie have to least info to base a potential lie off of.
Hey, that was the role
Thanks FL Very Happy A role in MS2 died after it's first post but was actually alive and communicated by giving the mod messages to say on it's behalf. Just because the mod said it, I wouldn't exactly be 100% sure that it's the mod's doing. (As in I'm wondering whether someone revealed the true version, or made a fake).
That being said, stop thinking over thinking everything. You and everyone else is just going to out think yourself right out of the truth if you constantly feel the mod is out to get you.
Are you saying it's a valid one? I honestly don't think so.
You just gave a reason not to believe it...
I honestly don't see this. Scum might use structure of role PMs to try to smoke out power roles or some such. I don't think Tar confirmed Kinetic either way.I think that what Mod Tarh did was to confirm him as a scumhunter pretty close to break the game. I dont know if scum could gain any advantage of it.
So yeah, should be interesting to look after.
saddogirl?populartajo wrote:This.saddogirl wrote:Wow, I usually don't get prodded. I'm sorry about the drop in activity. I've been both busy and also there seems to just be more repetition of the same points about this race claim. Honestly, we need to move, both to a lynch and to whatever else we are doing.
Will give my thoughts after my showa.
Wait, what? Did I miss something here?I doubt we have any more survivors - it would make the game a little unbalanced for scum to have such a big chance of their kills failing.
Since when were survivors bulletproof? Though to be fair, that WOULD make the role a bit better.Survivors can't be killed, correct? They must be lynched, correct? Therefore, we must have scum, that is, evil factions, who are capable of kills, otherwise the point of a survivor role is negated.
Yeah, I know. It's seriously a sucky role to have I would think without SOME protection. I know Tar made a 3 day survivor in a mind screw game, but I dunno what he'd do with it here.Ah, my apologies. I assumed that survivor roles would naturally be bullet-proof, since that has been the case in other games I have played with/as them.
I can see that survivors may not necessarily be bullet-proof... but I fail to see the point of it.
Survivor scum? That sounds like an utterly horrible role. I mean, that's like survivor lovers almost.
I'm not so sure about Nat and hp's WCs. I think its more likely that there are 3 survivors. Yes, three sounds right. A third scum group consisting of only survivors.
Alright then. What makes them different from each other?
Not exactly survivor scum. And I don't mean to say they're a 'group' in the sense they're working together. What I mean is that I believe that there are three survivors.
Three regular survivors...in a Tar game? Yeah right. Survivor in MS one had that cool power that screwed up vots. Survivor/Serial Killer in MS two had the ability to kill by abilities. Even if this isn't MS, I doubt that Tar would EVER make a vanilla survivor. And I doubt he'd use two of the same type unless maybe they were mason survivors (which would be a cool role, lol)
I don't know. I'm just speculating at this point. What makes you think they're different?
Does it matter? With three days to go you might as well do because it looks like you are gonna die. Also, if no one objects, I think we might as well just do our raceclaims right now, no popcorn. I'll do mine in my next post if people are fine with it and start doing it.
With three days to go and significant characters V/LA, lurking or stalling, tell me that you've figured a way around this.
Ok, so why a Mana vote?
No, I'm not sure Mana is lying. He could very well be telling the truth, but I'm not sure yet.