NY 160B - Welcome to Castle Zar - TIME FOR FIREWORKS!
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Tammy Survivor
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Tammy Survivor
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Tammy Survivor
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empire is town! And if by some chance I'm wrong it will be apparent soon but I really doubt im wrong. Though I town read him from his first post, then got somewhat suspicious, but knew I'd get yelled at if I was wrong about that :p. but yeah he's town.
Archangel is weird. I don't necessarily agree with empire on his town read of archangel but that's mainly because of her passivity rubs me the wrong way, most specifically her refusal to give any of her own thoughts. Especially when they post the same exact question in more than one game. I find her complaints about there not being any scum hunting, but no proactivity to actually do anything herself as off especially after claiming to have experience as both alignments. (there is something that makes me lean town here but I can't put my finger on it and wouldn't at all be upset at a VIG shot here)
I'm reading johhog as town. Partially be ause of his reasoning for voting empire, partially because he sounds the same as he did in rocky, and partially because I sympathisize with his frustration with mehdi. I have no clue why baby spice is coming to mehdi's rescue over this ordeal when the fact is he is claiming that one of the reasons he finds johhog suspicious is because he didn't answer a question that he hadn't been here to be able to answer or ignore. And I'm having trouble seeing mehdi as town here right now myself. And it's two fold. So, mehdi originally voted empire for thinking he was scummy for a meta reason for not giving a reason for why he voted nobody special in the first place in Post 44. He then later unvoted for another "apathy" meta reason, which whatever, but then immediately started scumhunting the wagon he was on.
So, when mehdi had his own reasons for being on empires wagon it was fine, but when he decided to jump off, any other reason to be on empire's wagon had to be scummy. *shakes head*. Quite frankly johhogs reason for voting empire was one of the least scummy actually. He didn't in any universe say that empire was going for a quick lynch...he said he was going after an easy target. Which is 100% an easy scum tell. Scum often like to go after easy targets, and it made perfect sense with his follow up question if empire had ever played with nobody special before. I don't agree with johhog that it's the case with empire as I do think that nobody special was awkward in a way that would remind empire of their experience as scu together. (and kingmaker it's not that it's an exact correlation but that the sense of awkwardness feels similar.).
Oh and johhog, Post 31 doesn't come from empire!scum pretty sure.
In post 68, Nobody Special wrote:In post 50, Empire wrote:Mehdi, I figured that an unexplained initial vote would have more of an impact.
You'll be happy to know that a large number of players on this site view such an action as inherently scummy.
However, I still think Konowa is scummier than you are.
This is stupid and you know this. You're trying to tell someone they should act with how others would perceive hi as scummy in mind. And the fact is, it's not scummy to vote someone without reasoning, and it's not perceived as such. It can be a really great tool at reading people. What are you trying to accomplish here?
Also, NS what are you trying to prove in Post 74 ?
Why did you unvote and not vote anyone else?
I feel a little better about kingmaker for actually checking that game that was referenced though.
Okay...empire is holy fuck town, of you've read this far and are still voting him with conviction. You get to explain why. Also, johhog is town, so anyone voting him can put explanations in the box.
Decentish town reads on snowstorm ..oh hey I just looked and that's all I feel good about.
(also, please forgive me if I misread something right now...I'm on pain medication. I don't think I'm disoriented anymore, but there's still that possibility.)
Town reading: empire, johhog; semi-townreading: snowstorm.
Totally would not mind a vig of archangel and am slightly town reading vi because of his comments on it,
Oh and VOTE: mehdi-
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Tammy Survivor
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You shouldn't have any way to analyze my post. It was as neutral as it comes. I planned that post...as long as the game started on the day it did before I got my role pm.
But what I have a problem with mehdi is you scum reading a wagon that you were on. Correct me if I'm wrong. Your vote on empire was for a serious reason? And then you started scum reading his wagon. That reads really off to me. You're saying, I voted him for a valid reason (and for me actually was a horrible reason) but then scum read his wagon? And chose actually someone who had a valid reason to scum read? You are going to have to read that slowly to,me because your reasoning sounds like crap.-
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In post 133, Mehdi2277 wrote:And as for I voted emp that doesn't really change my mind on it. The idea that if I'm voting someone all the other votes on him must be town is dumb. I think I was wrong on emp, so I swapped and looked at the wagon.
I just don't follow medhi. You thought you had a good reason for voting empire? Correct? Then you decided you didn't...so you started scum reading the wagon before the people voting before you. It just doesn't make sense to me that you would decide to unvote from a wagon and go oh this person was the scummiest personon the wagon I was just voting on. And why Johhog, when he actually had the best reason of anyone on that wagon?-
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Wait, so you're saying, you voting him because he didn't give a bunch of reasons or wall for a vote on like page two was not scummy, but then when you changed your mind, you decided to scum read a wagon of people of people who voted before you and didn't have a chance to re-evaluate their stance even though as I said, Johhog's reasoning was actually more valid that yours?
What about Johhog's reasoning sucks? I think he's wrong, for instance, but I think his reasoning is solid. For instance, look back at marketplace, who did MoI read as scum in his first post? Each of them were semi-easy targets. It is pretty common for scum to go after easy targets first, so it makes complete sense for someone to wonder if someone is going after NS (an easy target) as scum. And an easy target really has nothing to do with quick lynching so I don't know why you're confusing the issue.
Also, I have a real problem with you not just admitting that part of your reason for voting johhog was bs. the fact is he wasn't ignoring you and didn't post after post 35, for which you partially voted him. There's no reason for you to accept that that you misstepped there. And why you won't is really odd.-
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Tammy Survivor
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In post 179, ArcAngel9 wrote:In post 123, Tammy wrote:
Archangel is weird. I don't necessarily agree with empire on his town read of archangel but that's mainly because of her passivity rubs me the wrong way, most specifically her refusal to give any of her own thoughts. Especially when they post the same exact question in more than one game. I find her complaints about there not being any scum hunting, but no proactivity to actually do anything herself as off especially after claiming to have experience as both alignments. (there is something that makes me lean town here but I can't put my finger on it and wouldn't at all be upset at a VIG shot here)
Totally would not mind a vig of archangel and am slightly town reading vi because of his comments on it,
Don't call me weird. I already feel alien here.. and am not rushing to vote or suspect someone without understanding anyone and to understand someone i need to know them and i haven't got crossed my ways with all the 15 players yet. so i think you need to re-think about me be different here is the fact that i am new here. and you're being judgmental.
Yes, i am experienced that is only for you to know that i am not noob in the game that doesn't mean i am not putting any effort in scum hunting.
TBH, I did asked a question to everyone, I don't see anyone actually answered that which makes me keep an eye on everyone. And how doesn't it is not looking like that i am not scum hunting. If you're townie what's stopping you to answer that question?
I wasn't calling you personally weird, and I'm sorry you took that as an insult. (I actually like weird people and consider myself somewhat weird anyway, so that wouldn't be an insult from me at all.). Your play is weird, which should be obvious as I discussed what about your play was bugging me in the entire paragraph.
You say that you're experienced but the way you're going about things don't really make sense with being experienced. Perhaps at your forum you do things differently, but you need to figure out a way to become acclimated to the style of play here.
For instance, your assertion that vi and I are trying to frame you for something makes no sense whatsoever. If we were buddies, and we're working together, and wanted you dead, we'd just kill you. Several people have commented on and criticized your play, and you are dismissing that. You are a detriment to town with the way your playing right now, and therefore I wouldn't mind if you were VIG shot. That is not meant to be an insult, and I don't have problems playing with and helping new people, but you don't seem like you want help or want to really work with us or how the game is played here. If you are town, please read a game preferably in the newbie queue as there are people there who will be answering questions that you probably have or making clear what are some things you don't seem to understand about what to expect here. This way you'll be more helpful to town overall.-
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Tammy Survivor
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In post 184, ArcAngel9 wrote:In post 180, Konowa wrote:What was the question you asked everyone?
next time, either name or quote to ask question becuase otherwise it ll be hard to see who your question directs too.
It was general question for everyone who they currently think most scummiest person in living.
For instance...you can get a good idea for the answer to this question by looking at the vote counts as people re generally voting the person they think is scummy. The question you asked is bad for a couple of reasons and isn't going to really get you answers. One it looks like you're trying o look busy when you're not really being proactive. Second this isn't going to be met favorably because asking this of everyone looks like you're trying to figure out who it's okay to suspect because it's not you voicing any of your thoughts.-
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In post 195, Mehdi2277 wrote:Add the word a between Vi and vig. And yes I think the fact he's pushing on it is bad since so far it just seems like complaining about someone annoying (if it was someone really scummy then why is Vi not voting her).
AA the majority of the reads are summarized in one word null, so they don't really help at all. If you're commenting on different parts being willing to actually lean towards town or scum helps.
Tammy you arguing the questioning is the exact same thing I argued with joh. Read the argument between me and joh again and if it still doesn't make sense then ask me, but your last argument is nearly identical to what joh was arguing.
Currently think rofl is town too, just because speculation on someone flipping scum isn't really worth pushing on when I wouldn't flip scum.
P-edit: You realize all your scum reads are centered on me bad while joh good?
Yes, mehdi I know. I understand fine, it's you who are refusing to accept the argument against what you did and this is where I see you as scummier. You are distorting johhogs reasoning for the vote in the first place. He thinks it's scummy to go after an easy target. You are somehow now arguing something about quick lynches when that's not the same thing at all. I even told you to look back to marketplace and MoI's first post to see him pointing out scummy things done by essentially easy targets.
Johhogs reasoning for voting empire was the towniest reason there was, and your refusal to accept that you're misunderstanding something is really scummy. It's like in black flag when you and regfan got in the debate over buddying and you refused to accept the widely accepted meaning for buddying and opted for your own defintion instead. You're not also recognizing that it was scummy of you to make it sem like johhog ignored your question when he hadn't been back in the thread. Usually when town are presented with reasons for why their logic is faulty or they are calling something one thing that it isn't, town will acknowledge that. Scum are usually the ones that don't want to admit theyre wrong about an interpretation, and that is what I'm seeing here. You are too busy going "I'm right" instead of listening to what others are saying.-
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In post 224, Mehdi2277 wrote:I never said she attacked Vi. It was only a few posts ago so are my posts hard to read? You pushed me for taking the fact Vi pushed AA as scummy, but it's ok for her to get a town read on Vi for the same thing and seriously push for AA being vig shot.
See this is a really good example of my problem with you this game. You're continuing to distort. I never "seriously pushed for AA to be VIG shot.". I said I wouldn't mind if she was, and I wouldn't, as I find her a detriment to town. I don't even know if there is a VIG in this game, and my statement is similar to when I say I won't cry over the mislynch of someone I think is town but would be harmful to town come end game.
Your attempt to make something seem bigger than it is is really scummy mehdi.-
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Tammy Survivor
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And you know mehdi I'm just not following you NOT understanding johhogs vote on empire and reasoning. I'm not getting you scrambling around and distorting it to call it a quicklynch or that going after an easy target isn't what a lot of scum do. In 463, your scum team went after piggy first thing. Why was that? Piggy is an easy target, easy to get a mislynch out of. You even in the mafia qt say that you guys can get mislynches out of piggy/absta/voided, so you know the concept. You know that scum will go after an easy target early if they can, because you have been on a scum team that has done that exact thing.
So, why do you find it suspicious for johhog to be suspicious of something that is well documented and a common practice for scum?-
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Tammy Survivor
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Well then ask the question you want to know.
It's Tuesday, deadlines not until Friday and I don't want it cut short especially when there are several people who really haven't made much of an impression/given meh contribution and need to contribute more. I'm really not interested in going into day two with the bulk of the information for today being your misunderstanding of the johhog vote issue and discussion about that and the AA vigbait issue. No matter what your alignment is, it's not fruitful discussion come tomorrow. I want to reread through some things and have questions I want to ask people also, so I'd rather the day not end soon. I also need to answer empires questions and want his feedback on a couple of things.
Mehdi - you finally gave an answer for why to vote him for his unanswered question that makes sense. I was waiting for you to say something along those lines to clear that up. Why did it take you so long to give that reasoning, when it was clear people thought you were implying he was ignoring you?
Also easy target does not mean quick lynch or someone you think you can get lynched easily. It means someone who is easy to go after, and while you may hope to get them lynched quickly that doesn't necessarily happen. For instance piggy is super easy to go after because she posts rather awkwardly and does things you would expect scum to do when she's town. But in 463, it took y'all three days to get that mislynch and in the end it was a town driven mislynch. It's often hard when your scum to figure out what to go after, so people like NS, Piggy, etc, who typically behave suspicious anyway give a good place for scum to find something to push that looks real be ause they'll typically be looking for scummy behavior, not motivations, and they get to look active in the process.
Like snowstorm said, these easy targets can be scum, but when people jump on someone who is known for being an easy target, it's good to suss out if it's a town motivated attack or just opportunistic. Thats why johhogs question looked town motivated and was one of the best reasons for the vote on e,pore as far as I was concerned. That was backed up by the question just a few minutes later if empire had ever played with NS before. It looks like he thought about it, and then realized it was possible what he was accusing him of might not stand.-
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Tammy
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In post 339, Mehdi2277 wrote:Since to me it made sense the first few times I argued it with him. Pretty sure I said repeated myself around then, so if you want me to say it in a clear way ask specifically about it when I've answered before.
Oh and unlike N/sixty I helped defend piggy for awhile (I just wasn't going to say no when JT had a strong case on them that made it really easy to just add in). Anyways the better connection for joh is his current play as compared to micro 64. Game's only two short pages long and shouldn't take more then 5 minutes to read.
And that was the question. I know you didn't feel a need to slow down the earlier lynches in Black Flag much so I was curious why it occurred now.
Is that a scum game of johhog? I've played with him before when he was town and I was scum on rocky, and that's the type of meta I take more seriously anyway.
In black flag we were pretty convinced sixty were scum right off the bat, and after their scum hammer claim there was no purpose to waiting around, but we had a lot to gain from getting the lynch over quickly when we all knew they were scum. I mean if you remember nothing else got done day two and the longer we would have waited the more frustrating it would have been.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Yes, but if you will look both empire and I started the day saying we wanted it to be short. Regfan did his case work up and was so convinced as were a couple of other people that there wasn't going to be anything else. You might note that at the end of the day I complained about the length and insisted the next day take more time.
Not really sure what relevance this has. Day one is the only day with the entire playlist. And while I don't like overlong day ones, I don't like day ones that are too short either. There's more work to do right now, so I don't want it ending yet.
Pedit: to mehdi.-
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Tammy Survivor
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In post 286, ArcAngel9 wrote:In post 270, Tammy wrote:In post 184, ArcAngel9 wrote:In post 180, Konowa wrote:What was the question you asked everyone?
next time, either name or quote to ask question becuase otherwise it ll be hard to see who your question directs too.
It was general question for everyone who they currently think most scummiest person in living.
For instance...you can get a good idea for the answer to this question by looking at the vote counts as people re generally voting the person they think is scummy. The question you asked is bad for a couple of reasons and isn't going to really get you answers. One it looks like you're trying o look busy when you're not really being proactive. Second this isn't going to be met favorably because asking this of everyone looks like you're trying to figure out who it's okay to suspect because it's not you voicing any of your thoughts.
How do even make statementsl ike i am not being proactive, you don't even know what my suspects and views about each one properly.
This is Mafia, a place i can ask, accuse, argue with players around me. so, don't tell me what not to do. Being a townie I would expect my town to find me and its important to act as team. you can't on your win get the town win. so my attempt was to see how many people have common opinion it is an effort to see who the most scummy but it doesn't change what my opinion one each one based on observation, but it is not always safe depend on self opinons becuase the rest town may have information than i do and i am trying to get what i need to identifiy mafia.
You have now refuted information given to you and reacted to the one vote on you in a horrible way that does nothing for town.
Here is a recently completed newbie game. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=23875
Please read it. For all our sakes. Kthnxbai.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Mehdi - your partner in 463 also gave that as a reason for why you were town when you weren't.
If you thought I was worried about a short day because I was unsure of my reads, why would you want to get me to out that, especially if you have a town read on me. You know, because you've played with me, that I talk about my reads when I have them. There is a virtue in waiting to see how some things develop, and really beyond your first question you needling on the way I treated days in 463 vs my statement here does seem like putting too much attention on really minor and inconsequential things.
What is your read on baby spice by the way?-
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Tammy Survivor
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In post 385, Mehdi2277 wrote:
Town since I don't see a benefit to continuing to push joh as scum or have me as a strong town read.
Okay, so let's go with the hypothesis your town. You've never heard of scum defending town before? Is that really the only thing giving you a town read on baby spice?-
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Tammy Survivor
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In post 388, Mehdi2277 wrote:Town (S to W) -> Empire, Baby, MoI, AA, Tammy, | SAD, snow, rofl, Deas, Joh
Null (most to least town leaning) - King, NS, Kon,
Scum - Vi
If you need reasons for a specific people ask, since otherwise it isn't needed to explain why for each. The line thingy just divides strong town reads from weak ones.
P-edit: Yes and I love to do it, but there really isn't a point to it here when she's already divided herself opinion wise from most people with just having joh as a scum read so it just makes her more in disagreement with everyone. That and when I've had 10 people suspect me I have a feeling she'd get attacked for trying to white knight later on if I did get lynched. And the first reason (having joh as scum) also applies for her town read.
See this kind of disconnect makes no sense to me mehdi. You say you, yourself, love to do it as scum, but you can't see the motivation for someone else to do it as scum? You defended piggy, right? Even though almost everyone was calling her scum? Didn't your hydra follow up with piggy's scum read on Thor too? I'd have to look it up but I'm pretty sure I remember reading In The scum qt you saying that you tend to white knight as scum, so if you are town here why aren't you a little suspicious over her behavior?-
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In post 276, Baby Spice wrote:Stealing time while resting my back
Vote count wrote:Mehdi2277 (6): SnowStorm, Vi, Johhog, Tammy, roflcopter, Ser Arthur Dayne
Joh, terribad vote and post with it. OMGUS with attitude. Insults (a personal pet peeve of mine), and strong focus on the weakest reason of Medhi's vote. But I've addresses this more earlier.
Tammy. Actually Tammy's #123 is the reason I wanted to do this.
I find it strange that Tammy calls Johog town for an action that is scummy. I find it hard to believe that she could actually miss the point being made by Mehdi, let alone question why I would point out a scummy action used as the basis for a vote on a player that appears town. Then she takes the cake for complaining about Medhi daring to scum hunt. Then calls OMGUSing, Johogs's vote, a good reason to vote.
Oh, and Tammy:And the fact is, it's not scummy to vote someone without reasoning,
It is scummy. It's not nice to have a reason and not give it as it leaves the way for scum to vote without a reason then make something up later, but to actually vote without reason past the RVS is scummy.
i]
Okay so beyond this rather flaccid rundiwn of the mehdi wagon where you don't seem to actually come to any evaluations, what is p with your super duper laser focus on johhog? So, you say insults are a pet peeve, do you actually find that a scummy action or are you just pointing out what you don't like about johhog? You say his vote is terribad, but why is it?
I don't see how mehdi, and apparently you to, can't see the town motivation in johhogs vote and reasoning on empire. That you both seem to be willfully misinterpreting the issue and refusing to listen to the widely accepted definitions of things and are instead sticking to your thought up definitions makes no town sense to me. I see the scum sense though.
I also don't understand how you can't see my point. Mehdi voted empire for a scummy reason, or at least for a really bad and flimsy one, changed his mind and immediately started scum hunting the wagon he had just been on before really anyone had a chance to update their reads. He then picked the most townie vote on empire and calls it the scummiest. He then has not listened to why his interpretation is incorrect. I can't follow this thought process nor can I see the town motivation here.
Why is mehdi such a strong town read for you that you're working so hard for him?
And also, by the way, it is not scummy to vote without a reason. Any halfway competent person can give a reason for why they would vote before hand and ont need to make one up afterwards. It's got nothing to do with nice. This is mafia not the miss congeniality pageant, and voting without reason can garner some interesting reactions. But this is entering MD territory.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Mehdi's at l-2.
I know not all white knights are created equal but it makes no sense for you not to be a little suspicious. Do you have a history of being susceptible to white knighting or being buddied as town?
Arhtur - lol...I'm still a little bitter about you getting quicklynched after I was night killed by the way.-
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In post 399, Mehdi2277 wrote:In post 395, Tammy wrote:He then picked the most townie vote on empire and calls it the scummiest. He then has not listened to why his interpretation is incorrect.
Can you really not see how this is just purely loaded? Since I said his vote was worst maybe I completely with the assertion and whether you think someone's post looks town doesn't mean I will think that. Similar to how I stayed with my idea on it you stayed with your idea on it for most of the time (and still are since you're calling it the best vote).
It's not loaded. You have multiple times demonstrated that you either don't understand or are refusing to understand what threasoning for the vote was. Until you do that we can't have a reasonakbe conversation so you might as well not reply to me about this anymore. Ive explained to you why your reasoning was a misinterpretation and you just refuse to listen. It's like you insisting to farafan that buddying was when two people had votes next teach other when that's not what buddying is.-
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In post 275, Empire wrote:
@Tammy:What are your thoughts on the players who have posted since your #138 (specifically Arthur, MoI, roflcopter, and DV)?
Arthurs town. He's not doing any of the over aggressive stuff he does when scum (or bad town where I tend to go after him :p ). He seems pretty relaxed and not self conscious. All in all he's fitting his town self pretty well.
MoI - I haven't seen enough to be able to get a read on him, and wanting to see more contribution from him is one reason I didn't want the day to end right now.
Leaning town on rofl - rofl's kind of hard to read because he works on gut, but from what i remember from when we were scum partners in Kanyes game was that he doesn't think he's that good as scum and doesn't necessarily like it. He was really aggressive and pushed weak things then which doesn't fit him here really.
DV - need to see more from DV too. Post 204 looks fairly townish though.-
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In post 523, roflcopter wrote:if mehdi flips town i am suspicious of tammy for having her vote off everything with approaching deadline and disappearing from the discussion and moi for offering now viable alternative with impending deadline and ignoring the ongoing lynch
there now mehdi can die happy i answered his question
lynch him
This is stupid. I made it very clear why I took my vote off last night as I wanted more information and didn't want the day to end yesterday. You should be able to tell from my discussion with mehdi yesterday that I was still very suspicious of him. How did I disappear from the discussion? I wasn't here today and that's it. I had family stuff to tend to, deadlines not for two days, and I knew I'd be back. You didn't need me here this afternoon.
I am, however, a bit concerned about moi. He's left his vote on empire this entire time when its really apparent that empire is town and has come up with really lame ways to attack him and hasn't really gone after him. Wanting moi to post more and seeing how he interacted with this wagon was one of the reasons I took my vote off, as I said last night.-
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In post 482, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Tammy wrote: MoI - I haven't seen enough to be able to get a read on him, and wanting to see more contribution from him is one reason I didn't want the day to end right now.
Aside from me not SAD / Mehdi style spamming the thread do my posts not have enough content for you to make any sort of alignment judgement?
Nope! You haven't really commented on the mehdi wagon in a meaningful way and have left your vote on empire but not really pushing him while at the same time arguing with him for what seems like arguing just for the sake of it. I'm suspicious of you, hence wanting to see more contribution.-
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In post 510, SnowStorm wrote:In post 497, Mehdi2277 wrote:In post 481, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:So I'm not a double voter
And what was the intent of that then since I don't think I'd ever have fully believed it (plus I prefer to act town after being really hammered for fun as scum)?
rofl if you're referring to NS's hammer intent forifI'm not lynchedsure I'm vanilla.
Oh, this was the claim?? The way in which it was presented is completely unacceptable by Lord Yates' standards. I mean, ugh, it's preceded by an IF. (And for some reason I thought you were talking about previous games).
Anyway, since this is finally out of the way, where's that hammer?
LoL-
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In post 535, Baby Spice wrote:In post 395, Tammy wrote:
Okay so beyond this rather flaccid rundiwn of the mehdi wagon where you don't seem to actually come to any evaluations, what is p with your super duper laser focus on johhog? So, you say insults are a pet peeve, do you actually find that a scummy action or are you just pointing out what you don't like about johhog? You say his vote is terribad, but why is it?
Oh nice one, delete the evaluations and claim I didn't make any. Ok, Vi and Snowstorms' evaluations are "soft" perhaps, but there. Then insult my post. I do find casual insults scummy. Johhog's ranting ones in #87 is at least genuine.
Continuously insulting someone to try and upset them and degenerate an discussion into an insult match though, regardless is really really scummy. Especially if you've looked at my past games. Hint, it's why there's a year long gap in me playing.
Not saying that that is what you're doing but I don't remember you insulting many other people.
I've said why Johhog's vote is terribad a few times now. #109, #186, #276
I did not insult you. Your post read more as a summary and busy work.
Never mind on the johhog vote...wires crossed. I was referring to johhogs empire vote and didn't make that clear.
baby wrote:
I don't see how mehdi, and apparently you to, can't see the town motivation in johhogs vote and reasoning on empire. That you both seem to be willfully misinterpreting the issue and refusing to listen to the widely accepted definitions of things and are instead sticking to your thought up definitions makes no town sense to me. I see the scum sense though.
I have no understanding of what you are getting at. Have I even mentioned Johhog's vote on Empire? I was saving that for day 2 since we looked like getting a flip from someone on that Empire wagon. But.
I will mention Johhog's vote on that wagon now. It sucked. It was bad. It was predicated on Empire knowing how NS played. If NS had not made the "Nothing to fear" comment, then Empire's vote would have been bad and Johhog reasonable. But NS' comment is suspicious. It could easily have been scum coaching scum.
Yes NS is an "easy target" and normally opportunistic votes on them are bad, but as someone said sometimes the easy targets are actually scum. Not that I'm saying NS is scum. Too early to tell with him.
In essence, running up a wagon on somebody because they voted an "easy target" falls into that voting an easy target meme itself.
This puts SAD, MoI, and Medhi in a bad light too btw.
Well johhogs empire vote was rather important as it was the basis for which mehdi voted johhog. At least with you saying it was bad, you are discussing the situation in the same light as everyone else. And true it was predicated on empire knowing that and if there was no follow up maybe it would be really bad, but johhog asked two follow up questions of empire - if he had ever played with ns and if he knew he was an easy target.
Does AA coming back town change your view of nobody specials comment to him. What are your thoughts on nobody special?
baby wrote:
I also don't understand how you can't see my point. Mehdi voted empire for a scummy reason, or at least for a really bad and flimsy one, changed his mind and immediately started scum hunting the wagon he had just been on before really anyone had a chance to update their reads. He then picked the most townie vote on empire and calls it the scummiest. He then has not listened to why his interpretation is incorrect. I can't follow this thought process nor can I see the town motivation here.
I can't see you're point. Granted Medhi's vote on Empire wasn't great. None of them were. But why is Medhi scummy for realizing that his vote was bad and changing it? Why is Johhog's vote the "most town", because it wasn't. It was the worst. Why was Medhi's actions there different from any of his other actions in this game, or others that he is playing/has played?
I don't think his interpretation was wrong, I think yours is. But then several of your interpretations are wrong Tammy
Mehdi wasn't scummy for realizing his vote was bad and changing it; I didn't like how he immediately scum read the wagon he was on just minutes before and before any of those other people had a chance to rethink empire like mehdi did. We'll just have to agree to disagree on johhogs vote, but why isn't MoI's the worst?
My main problem with mehdi's interpretation was that we weren't using the same definition for what we were arguing and therefore couldn't come to an understanding.
It's fine if some of my interpretations are wrong. It's bound to happen when you don't actually know anything. How do you know that my interpretations are wrong though? If you're just as uninformed as I am, you wouldn't *know* if I'm wrong or right.
baby wrote:
Why is mehdi such a strong town read for you that you're working so hard for him?
And also, by the way, it is not scummy to vote without a reason. Any halfway competent person can give a reason for why they would vote before hand and ont need to make one up afterwards. It's got nothing to do with nice. This is mafia not the miss congeniality pageant, and voting without reason can garner some interesting reactions. But this is entering MD territory.
Answered in #489.
Please explain the towniness of voting without a reason. Note, not voting without giving a reason, but voting without a reason.
I'm not sure what the thread difference of that is. In any case, both ways, you could be gauging reactions, and that's town.
If you don't like votes without reasons, how come you never said anything about the votes on empire for no reason? SAD cots empire without A reason but then gave a reason after mehdi asked. But moi also vote empire without a reason. What is your read on moi?-
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In post 550, Baby Spice wrote:Lol. That is so funny Johhog.
Vote Johhog
Not only did you have the worst, most scummy vote on an obv town wagon that flipped town, you immediatly vote the person who pointed out how scummy your vote was the next day.
This reads fake.-
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In post 548, DeasVail wrote:Rofl, how has Mehdi being town affected your read of me?
Also, to you and SAD, why MoI-scum? I remember thinking he was town when I was reading.
Why are you reading him as town? My problem with moi is, as I said, how he didn't say anything meaningful concerning the mehdi wagon. He asked rofl to tell him why he was scum without fluffy language and talked to Arthur about Arthur thinking he was obvscum, but he didn't offer up his own opinions on what was a major portion of the conversation yesterday. He left his vote on empire the entire day, and though he attacked empire somewhat he looked more to be arguing for the sake of keeping busy but not pushing anything.-
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In post 561, Kingmaker wrote:I wonder why no one didn't comment about 2 deaths. Am I missing something?
I'm wondering why you're not commenting on anything game relevant.
Empire - I dont remember right now what that was. I think you basically answered what I was wondering about your thoughts when you checked in after though.-
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In post 578, Kingmaker wrote:Proddodge, will post something tonight.
Who are your top two scum reads and why?-
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In post 558, Baby Spice wrote:
But moi also vote empire without a reason. What is your read on moi?
I don't. Ever since this game I've either ignored, avoided, or outright buddied MoI regardless of relative alignments. He brings out the absolute worst in me and I really don't like it. In #276 I said that insults were a personal pet peeve of mine. That game, and MoI, are why.
And this makes it so that you are unable to give a read on moi?-
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In post 563, Nobody Special wrote:Baby, what's the difference between avoiding and ignoring?
Is this really the only question you had? What does this tell you about baby spices alignment?-
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In post 617, Nobody Special wrote:
I have never been able to adequately read MoI -- partly because he intimidates me, with his knack for reading my alignment so very well (he's hardly ever wrong about me), and partly because I just can't.
So, null. Or something.
What does him being able to read you have to do with your ability to read him? so, you got over this paranoia then?
You never answerd how the question to baby spice helped with your read on her. What is your read on her btw?-
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Gods.
Dgb - you've replaced into a slot that several are scum reading and did almost nothing yesterday and absolutely nothing today. On the off chance you are own, please stop flirting with johhoghe's too young for youand town yourself...please. Waiting for my scum reads to actually post and do something today has been an exercise in boredom. Also, pretty sure Arthur's town so if you're reaction testing or whatever you're doing, please cough up what you learned or something.
Konowa - what's also odd is nobody specials avoidance of giving a read on moi. His reason for avoiding giving a read in Post 617 is laughably bad.
DV - the reasoning for rofl giving a scum read on you is not contrived, it makes sense. How come you're using snowstorm not commenting on the moi wagon as a scum tell of sorts, but had moi as a town read when he didn't comment on the mehdi wagon day one?-
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In post 655, DrippingGoofball wrote:MMMMmmmmmmmmmmm
It's interesting how Tammy interacts with so few players.... 90% Mehdi, the lynched guy.
Are you reading the game or Isos?-
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In post 654, DrippingGoofball wrote:I iso'd MoI - he's clearly town to me.
Also, explain that one cuz I'm .-
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Oh yeah. I'm so fine with my vote where it is. So, dgb, read me again and tell me I'm "sketch" due to limited interactions, better yet read the game. I dare you. At least come up with something real to call me sketch on, flex your scum muscles a little.
So, you call me "sketch" based on lol limited interactions though I've interacted with everyone in the game, BUT you give moi and NS a townread when they actually *do* have limited interactions.
Why is arhtur defensive and how is that making him sketch?
From where I'm standing your reads list looks like a fabricated piece of $&:;.-
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In post 661, DrippingGoofball wrote:In post 659, Tammy wrote:In post 654, DrippingGoofball wrote:I iso'd MoI - he's clearly town to me.
Also, explain that one cuz I'm .
My town reads are never wrong.
Yeah, that doesn't really fly when I'm scum reading your slot. It might work when I think your town, but I don't. Bummer.-
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Also, pretty sure there's an incorrect town read in here. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4369001
So, yep, that excuse don't fly. Explain read. Thanks.-
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In post 666, DrippingGoofball wrote:In post 664, Tammy wrote:Also, pretty sure there's an incorrect town read in here. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4369001
So, yep, that excuse don't fly. Explain read. Thanks.
That was on page 7.
That it was even there negates the "never" you used (also, it was there on page 23 though you note she could have been bussed). It shouldn't be too hard to just explain the read if it's real.
Hmm...I've been called a pit bull going after a scum read before, but never a chihuahua. Yo quiero taco bell? Your scum hunting is secondary to me right now. I'm more interested in my read on your slot, and I've been waiting this entire day phase for something from your slot.
I don't need to iso myself. I know I've interacted with most everyone, if not everyone. Yes, I interacted with the person lynched the most. One mehdi asks lots of questions, and two I was interested in actually reading the person I was scum reading. Don't see how that's problematic.-
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In post 676, DrippingGoofball wrote:In post 675, Tammy wrote:Don't see how that's problematic.
Scum often avoid interacting with their buddies.
Okay, and which buddy did I avoid interacting with? I'll be waiting.-
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In post 677, DrippingGoofball wrote:Feel free to rephrase any question you might have more respectfully and I'll gladly answer. I don't need the attitude.
Stop stalling.
What are your reasons for townreading moi and nobody special?-
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What?!? I make it clear, as does my vote, that I'm scum reading your slot. If you actually read my iso, you know I'm scum reading two people you call town. I ask you to explain those reads, not in a rude way mind you, and you basically refuse by claiming you are never wrong about town reads. That doesn't help. Not when I'm scum reading your slot, which I told you I was.
I'm sorry if you're having a bad day or something, but I haven't even been rude. I'm scum reading your slot and pushing you to try to solidify my read, and when it looks to me that you've just fabricated a list of reads, I'm going to push that.-
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.In post 687, DrippingGoofball wrote:In post 685, DrippingGoofball wrote:In post 683, DrippingGoofball wrote:I've PM'd the mod for replacement and I'm not answering anymore.
Have a good night's sleep and come back to us in the morning. (then explain your town reads)-
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Oh empire I see where you're coming from on the snowstorm/kingmaker thing. My thing with snowstorm is that he's generally pretty hard to read and tends to be mislynch bait. I think I've only read him correctly early on a couple times and otherwise need some time to see how he develops and interacts with people and suspicion before I feel confident about my read on him.
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