NY 160B - Welcome to Castle Zar - TIME FOR FIREWORKS!

[Empire]

Ok tammy, I read through your case and I think a lot of it has merit but there are some things about it I disagree with entirely. I'll write them out here, it's going to be rambly and without links and stuff so sorry for the mess but yeah let me know what you think and stuff (imagine this is Open 463 all over again except nowhere near as hard).

Re; Zach's read on NS...if anything, I found that the opposite of non-committal. He said NS' interaction with Baby "clears" himw hich is pretty strong language that I think renders the earlier part of it moot. And frankly, despite him being scum, he does have a point - Baby Spice engaging in that kind of setup spec would be really weird if she were partnered up with NS. This makes me think Snow's right when he says that read on NS was basicallyu Zach looking for cred.

Re: interaction with MoI - I can see why that's kind of weird but I don't know, I feel like he would have ignored NS entirely if they were partners. for example, look at Moi's interactions with Baby. Despite having a history of bad blood between them, he literally never comments on her doings at all...not even once in his ISO. that was part of the reason i suspected him too, MoI as town is a lot more cocky and aggressive and he would have slammed her down at least once in this thread.

Re: interactions with Baby - I could see a lot of it as distancing but idk, i feel like i remember Baby not interacting with her partners much as scum at all based off something I read a while ago (Strategy Mafia?) so that could be a factor here,

---

Ok so stuff I actually agree with you on and it's largely the reason I've grown increasingly on the fence: I think his reasoning for not gicing a read on MoI is horrible and is a pretty eerie resemblence to what Baby was saying when questioned on her read on MoI. I wasn't sure at all if NS was the kind of player who would bus, ever...in Rarefaction I, he literally dfid not interact with me or with Xalxe at all. Looking at that link, his votes on Baby Spice and Zach could totally be seen as bus votes. Also, his attack on you is literally complete garbage, based on shitty logic, and comes absolutely out of nowhere...the shift to DV also looks opportunistic as fuck. and also, I went through oen of your links that led to Zach's game and found a quote somewhere that said "If I'm not fully grounded in a game, I'm wary of putting people at L-1 for fear of not really knowing what's going on... but at the same time, this guy quickhammered someone in Masq Ball when I was scum who turned out to be the cop so I have no fucking clue here either.

I'm probably missing a lot of stuff and I realize I'm kind of rambling but yeah...and Tammy, thanks a lot for writing it, you're the best and I mean that sincerely.

[Empire]

If, by some miracle, DV is town, then Tammy is totally scum.

jesus fuck this is embarrassing.

[Empire]

I guess it's partly (subconsciously) OMGUS. I know I'm town, and your case just seems wholly fabricated. It's just absurd and ludicrous (to me). Reverse tunneling, I guess.

Anyway, based on the way your case sounds, I think you are indeed scum if DV isn't.

holy shit, you might actually really be scum here.

Man, I'm gonna have to apologize to DV here if NS is actually scum.

i don't know

[Empire]

I haven't read into it like I normally would, and I always feel that it's hard to read NS, but he's generally felt like town to me here, and obviously the scumread on you isn't giving up like I thought it was and actually seems genuine now (and weird to come from him as scum).

The main thing that makes me question him as scum is still the vote for Nacho.

If you vote for a scumbuddy in that kind of situation, then I think that you'd commit yourself to their wagon. You're basically making the decision whether to bus them or not. So if you vote for them, you've decided to bus. I don't think there was anything really that made it a good idea for NS to suddenly not bus anymore, and if he had made the decision to bus, then switching back to Nacho is the kind of thing that from his perspective would attract more attention than supporting Nacho from the beginning would have done. I think as scum, it's much more awkward to vote for a scumbuddy in that kind of situation and then unvote.

I'm not sure of this, and everyone except konowa I feel is more than he is, but there's nothing this strong for me that indicates Konowa-town, and there are things I find scummy about Konowa that I've said. I don't think your case on NS is that bad, but none of it really feels that significant to me I guess.

PEdit: Ok, and I may be wrong, but nothing brought up for him being town has been very convincing to me.

the problem here is that I think NS would attack tammy like that as scum. During Rarefaction I as scum, he did this fucking terrible omgus attack on Tierce right off the bat and drew a shitload of attention for it. and he had several opportunistic vote shifts in that game, like voting for saulres when he was drawing a lot of heat, i think he's also very aware of how people perceive him and he'd definitely take an action like switching onto Nacho like that under the assumption that people would just write him off for "being NS". i'm also getting the same vibe Tammy is re: Konowa playing to his town meta so he's definitely at the end of the list for me here out of the three of you.

you should probably read the Mafia in Triplicate Micro to get a better sense of what I'm trying to say here.

[DeasVail]

Empire, I think my earlier point is more relevant now that he's obviously not scum giving up.

Tammy, please don't listen too much to my response to your post, especially since it's only me. With Konowa, it was mainly his weird comment about Mehdi flipping scum and his lack of interaction with Baby Spice. There are townish things about him too, but he's the least town for me.

PEdit: Hmm maybe you're right then. I haven't played with NS-scum in a while, although I'm voting for NS anyway and it's not like I'm going to be able to decide between them.

Yeah, I don't really like that reason for town Konowa because it's what people have said about me when I've been scum before, and although it's possible to slip up a bit (as I feel I have done a bit recently as scum), I don't think it's

too

hard to replicate town play.

[Empire]

Meh, I'll make a decision some time tomorrow I guess. Would really love to hear Arthur's thoughts on this.

[DeasVail]

Um, I don't really know if I should say this, but I feel like it, so....

Empire, just vote NS (or Konowa if you suddenly want to). I'm town and you can trust that. I just feel like things would be so much easier if I could be seen as town.

And if this can't happen, which I'd totally understand, then probably make the decision sooner rather than later and don't beat yourself up too much over it, as the order doesn't

really

matter in the end.

[Nobody Special]

Flail moar, scum.

[DeasVail]

You know, DeasFlail could be my new nickname.

[Nobody Special]

Nominate DeasVail for

DeasFlail

[DeasVail]

Well I like it better than the other version.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Meh, I'll make a decision some time tomorrow I guess. Would really love to hear Arthur's thoughts on this.

Deep down, I want NS to be scum, because it means I called the whole team correct:

Btw this is from last night:

Town (S->W): Johhog, Tammy, Empire, SnowStorm, roflcopter,

Vi

,

ArcAngel9

, DeasVail

Scum (S->W): Baby Spice, Nobody Special, MagnaofIllusion, Konowa, Kingmaker

Other than that, this is a semi-prod-doge.

(I mean, can we see some blood >_> There is literally nothing that can make us lose this. Lynch one of {DV, NS}, then lynch the other, then lynch Konowa in LyLo, or possibly Tammy if she's still alive <----- Totally a joke )

[Konowa]

Why do you guys post so much while I'm sleeping? I'll post after work.

[Zar]

Freedom of worship and multiple holidays are standard accross the Lands ruled by the Zars. Despite it is recognized as a minor religious holiday, The conmemoration of the Festival of Lights initiates a month of celebrations that culminate in Lord Zar's ScumDay.

Day 4, Vote Count 2

DeasVail (3): Konowa, SnowStorm, Nobody Special

Nobody Special (2): DeasVail, Tammy

Not Voting (2):

Empire, Ser Arthur Dayne

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline

: Wednesday, January 23rd, 2013 8:45 AM New York Time. (GMT-5)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2013-01-23 08:45:00)

[SnowStorm]

*HINT*HINT*

Basically,

I think it's quite likely town will win whether I'm lynched or not, but I feel like I should at least somehow try to not be lynched and not just lazily accept it, unless people can just keep ISOing me until they have a townread on me or something

.

Er.. NS?

PEdit: Well yes I agree, but

if he's scum at this stage then he's completely screwed, so wouldn't he at least try to look town?

Although now I think he might just be trolling.

Also, I'm surprisingly a little sad.

...
Yeah, I don't really like that reason for town Konowa because it's what people have said about me when I've been scum before, and

although it's possible to slip up a bit (as I feel I have done a bit recently as scum)

, I don't think it's

too

hard to replicate town play.

Empire, just vote NS (or Konowa if you suddenly want to). I'm town and you can trust that. I just feel like things would be so much easier if I could be seen as town.

And if this can't happen, which I'd totally understand, then probably make the decision sooner rather than later and don't beat yourself up too much over it, as the order doesn't

really

matter in the end.

You know,

DeasFlail could be my new nickname.

He can't be more obvious than that without claiming. So stop feeding him with your second-guessing and just lynch him!

[Tammy]

Happy scum-day lord zar!

I'll respond to empire tonight, since tomorrows a holiday I'll have some time tonight and tomorrow, but I'm heading out for the day.

Snowstorm - yes, deas looks suspicious as hell and it might be him, and all the things posted might make it seem more likely if I hadn't seen deas act like this when he's up for a lynch more than once. I don't know I he also does it as scum, but I know he does it as town. What I find more covincing and suspicious is his interactions with zach.

[SnowStorm]

He doesn't just look suspicious. His whole attitude reeks of scum who knows his chances of surviving this day are minimal, let alone win the game. He said he wouldn't just lazily accept his lynch but i haven't seen him throw any serious accusations. He's not even really fighting for his life, he's just playing around your indecisiveness.

And I really don't get what the point is in delaying his lynch since IF (for some abnormal reason) he flips town, we can lynch NS tomorrow and still win the game.

[SnowStorm]

This is just so annoying. DV's lynch is a no-brainer to me and I simply can't understand why you three are still trying to avoid it or fight it. I get it that you wanted to look at other suspects, I get it that you really wished you were right about your earlier town reads on DV / scum reads on Konowa/NS, but we've had more than enough time to think and analyze every possible scenario and no matter how hard you wish you were right, you have to admit that you're most likely wrong now and DV won't become town all of a sudden just to make you happy.

Can we end this now, please?!!?!??

(I'm aware this might come out as an overreaction and that I could just wait for you to make up your minds, but I can't help it, this is deeply irritating.)

[DeasVail]

Snow, I'm not sure what your point is, but 1013 and 1083 are not really posts I'd expect you to understand (they're related to history with NS).

And about the pushing serious suspects, would you listen to me if I did?

The answer is no, isn't it?

[DeasVail]

And I'm not going to be some ridiculous show-pony that works on a case on someone not because anyone will read it and consider it, but to possibly make people think I'm town (which is obviously not going to happen, especially when it's totally what I'd do as scum anyway)

[Konowa]

I think what SnowStorm is saying is that if you do somehow flip Town, you words postmortem would carry more weight. Presenting why you think I'm more likely to be scum than NS would help Town in the next Day phase.

But you're scum, so it's okay.

[Konowa]

As far as NS goes, limited scope (I haven't read any Town games), in Mafia in Triplicate he wasn't nearly this snarky.

[Nobody Special]

And I really don't get what the point is in delaying his lynch since IF (for some abnormal reason) he flips town, we can lynch NS tomorrow and still win the game.

Except no. IF DeasVail flips town (and we all know he won't), then lynching me won't win for us as I'm also town. If there is a tomorrow, we need to lynch Tammy.

[Konowa]

Why?

[Nobody Special]

Her case on me (not to mention her abrasive, snarky attitude) is not town!Tammy. I'll have to dig up the game, give me a few minutes.