Mini 1524: Olympian Gods Mafia - Game Over

[Desperado]

vote: wisdom

Choo choo motherfucker

[Desperado]

wait i thought we were speedlynching wisdom

[Desperado]

To rephrase,

NO NO NO NO NO

This is when I first thought Nacho was going to "freak out" to look town.

if he was town he'd be panicking, calling me scum with whiskers, screaming his pretty little head off

And then everybody (again, "everybody" is like, two people) went, "WHOA, HE SURE IS DEFENSIVE!" And I was like, "9___9 jeez you guys didn't anybody read this post (32)?"

So your entire case hinges on a comment that Nacho made that was specifically referring to Wisdom?

Nacho wasn't saying "all town freaks out and gets defensive," he was saying that Wis should have been freaking out.

[Desperado]

Why do you think this is a Wisdom-specific meta that Nacho is using? Have you played with Wisdom before? Do you agree that, him as town, would go all muppet-armed over being Random-Vote-Wagonned early Day 1? Do you agree with Nacho's meta of him?

Because he was taking to Wisdom, yes, yes, yes

None of this is even considering the laughable suggestion that Nacho would, as scum, telegraph his own future towntells in thread. That is pants on head retarded.

Is your scumteam Nacho, Mollie, ??? right now?

[Desperado]

Mala, why did you have to ask Wisdom why he's voting you? Was #124 unclear?

[Desperado]

I wasn't answering for him, I was quoting the reason that he had already posted before you asked him why he was voting you.

[Desperado]

Oopsie daisy.
Why leave yourself out, Wisdom?

Grim, there's nothing out of the ordinary about mollie and arc mutually townreading each other that early. With that said, I think they would totally do that as scum too.

Mirari's #195...seriously? Grim is going to have an aneurysm when he sees that.

I don't think Wisdom is scum.

Unvote
Vote: Mala

[Desperado]

@Des 140: can you explain to me more what the hell 'telegraphing his own future towntells' means? I'm totally misunderstanding something or it's just bluntly unrelated to the quote?

It wasn't related to the quote, it was a re-sequitor to an earlier part of my conversation with Whiskers.

[Desperado]

and in 142 - do you think it's a legitimate reason to vote mala right now?

des witha nother filler.

Yup. I was letting their interaction play out.

[Desperado]

Unvote
Vote: Penguin

Penguin you're doing that self-centered, reactive thing you do when you're scum. And we were totally not in RVS anymore when Mala voted you. And you're ignoring the "Nacho was defensive" thing, which is a huge red flag.

[Desperado]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Desp

You are sheeping and echoing everything I do.

Yeah--because I'm town and I'm seeing the same things you are.

[Desperado]

I read it as Whiskers thinking Nacho wasn't defensive, not that he was pretending to be defensive. Why would scum-Whiskers engage in that way? I'm not seeing the scum motivation.

No, he clarified that he thinks Nacho is scum telegraphing towntells and then faking them.

[Desperado]

ooooooooo I love wacky gimmicks

[Desperado]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: mala

penguin's last posts were a little better.

I disagree. She's still doing the similar post only when called upon thing that she did when she was scum in Manical (Mastin-NY)

Yup. Which is the same thing I coached her on when we were both scum in Castle mafia.

[Desperado]

Arc was his only scumread

[Desperado]

Yeah but everything he said in the bubble referred to Arc

[Desperado]

@ Penguin: Uh...no? I was coaching you to play less like WWE and more like Calvin and Hobbes.

[Desperado]

Mirari's post was both stupid and null

[Desperado]

Sorry, I was thinking of this:

Why were you thinking of that when I specifically said I coached you on that in Castle?

[Desperado]

@ Shos: Penguin's scum for her confirm-vote on Mirari over her question to Wisdom + experiential meta

[Desperado]

@ Mollie: Why are you hesitant to vote shos when he was intentionally playing scummy in Doctor mafia because he was the nurse? He said as much in thread. I also agree with Ooba, your Whiskers vote just looks like sour grapes to me. Who do you actually think is scum?

[Desperado]

@ Mollie: Why are you hesitant to vote shos when he was intentionally playing scummy in Doctor mafia because he was the nurse? He said as much in thread. I also agree with Ooba, your Whiskers vote just looks like sour grapes to me. Who do you actually think is scum?

I also don't like Desperado at all. I expected much more from him than just this. He is not scumhunting.

hahahahaha what

If you don't think I'm scumhunting the how about you shut the fuck up and leave me alone then?

[Desperado]

@ Mollie: Why are you hesitant to vote shos when he was intentionally playing scummy in Doctor mafia because he was the nurse? He said as much in thread. I also agree with Ooba, your Whiskers vote just looks like sour grapes to me. Who do you actually think is scum?

how does it look like sour grapes

Why is Whiskers scum?

[Desperado]

@ Mollie: Why are you hesitant to vote shos when he was intentionally playing scummy in Doctor mafia because he was the nurse? He said as much in thread. I also agree with Ooba, your Whiskers vote just looks like sour grapes to me. Who do you actually think is scum?

I also don't like Desperado at all. I expected much more from him than just this. He is not scumhunting.

hahahahaha what

If you don't think I'm scumhunting the how about you shut the fuck up and leave me alone then?

Umm, what?
Why would I leave you alone?

Because I clearly am scumhunting, and you bothering me about how I'm not isn't going to help either of us

[Desperado]

@ Mollie: Why are you hesitant to vote shos when he was intentionally playing scummy in Doctor mafia because he was the nurse? He said as much in thread. I also agree with Ooba, your Whiskers vote just looks like sour grapes to me. Who do you actually think is scum?

how does it look like sour grapes

Why is Whiskers scum?

the pissiness looks fake and it looks like she is trying to work at coming up with a reason as to why nacho is scum and I am not town scum reading nacho but if whiskers flips scum nacho is for sure town but to me it is more about the fake meltdowns

I think your fake meltdown point is trash. I don't think Whiskers has been melting down at any point, she seems extremely confident in what she's pushing, and I think it's too dependent on other people who aren't Whiskers doing the same thing to you recently. "Fake scum meltdowns are a fad now" is not a reason to think someone is scum.

So who else?

[Desperado]

A lot of (needless) hostility in this post and the one above. I can understand if you thought he was scum (some people get angry and are rude at scum suspects) - but this looks like you're trying to undermine\ridicule Wisdom.

pssssst

he does think wis is scum

[Desperado]

Like it really looks like Whiskers is being voted for being a big meanie and for not being one of the cool kids.

^Does no one understand that Whisker's "hostility" is related to feeling left out/threatened by a bunch of people who clearly know each other and are using tools that he can't given the circumstances?

You in particular, mollie, should have seen this. Whisker looks exactly like I looked in Maniacal.

[Desperado]

Yeah mollie is scum with penguin.

Unvote
Vote: Mollie

[Desperado]

Yup. Mollie is talking to Penguin like she is townreading her the biggest defense she mustered was against Mala, who wasn't even pushing Penguin that hard (and was getting heat at the time).

And none of mollie's pushes have made any sense at all. Wagonned Nacho during the defensive thing, wagoned Ooba for trolling, wagoned Whiskers for being mean.

Why are you townreading her?

PEdit: He can't say it makes them scum together.

[Desperado]

Like Whiskers' ISO makes it pretty clear he thinks Wis and Matt are scum together. How are you missing that??

[Desperado]

All the fucking time--we've been hydraing lately. The level of synchronicity is spooky. I am NOT getting that right now from her.

[Desperado]

And you're okay with such nonsense. You're not this stupid.

It's more like I don't think Whiskers is in a position to do anything about his conspiracy theory so I'm not worried about it right now.

[Desperado]

I don't think Whiskers has melted down. I think she feels left out and is lashing out in response.

[Desperado]

No she isn't. I caught ETL red handed and she didn't know what to do but yell at me and call some names.

Whiskers is "being mean" to wisdom and Matt too. The meta thing and yiu and them all point to town who thinks highly of their play and can sense themselves being pushed to the side by a group of people who knew each other previously.

[Desperado]

@ nacho

I don't think scum desp would push me either but I also expect to him to be able to read me a bit better as town. matt, wis are solid town reads, arc has slipped a bit and mala is unsure. I think shos looks like pondscum but I thought that in sabotage too. I will lay off whiskers for now but jesus christ don't let her skate.

eta: xposts

but I also expect to him to be able to read me a bit better as town.

The push itself is good, even though it's probably wrong. That's not what a scumDesp ignoring obvious towntells to get a mislynch on you would look like.

the only thing that irks me is how he is ignoring what whiskers is doing. I mean like we literally just saw this happen in a micros.

Why are you talking to other people about things we were discussing and then ignoring my responses?

I've already addressed both of these issues. I'm having trouble reading you this game because what you are doing makes no fucking sense, at any point. None of your pushes have been even remotely useful. You are getting caught up in a catfight with Whiskers and using it as an excuse to tunnel and I don't like it.

And

I completely disagree with your interpretation of what Whiskers is doing so seriously, stop telling me that we "literally just saw this" because we fucking didn't. What Whiskers is doing right now is NOT what ETL and SG did.

And even if it were...so what? Whiskers isn't ETL or SG. You are still clinging to this silly "meltdowns are the new scum fad" narrative and its just bad, dude.

Who are Whiskers' teammates?

[Desperado]

I am not talking about etl I am talking about squirrel girl in mala's medical mafia game. never played with her before but she came in with a hate on for me that was an effective smokescreen for scummy d1 play. I am tired of giving this shit a pass.

SG didn't have half as much conviction in her attacks on you as Whiskers does.

Stop comparing them.

PS Whiskers' breakdown of your reads is actually pretty accurate. "Shos looks like pondscum but he did in the doctor micro" yeah no shit, I already told you he was playing scummy intentionally.

[Desperado]

I really really don't like mollie telling me I should be better at reading her after ignoring my very real concerns. That's like, the scummiest way she could have reacted to my push and now she needs to die for it.

[Desperado]

we most certainly DID see it. why the fuck are you pretending we didn't and I don't give a shit what anybody says coming up with an exorbitant amount of dislike of a player when you have never played with them is a scumtell. it is a smokescreen and

why the fuck are you buying it and then trying to call me scum.

I don't know who whiskers teammates are cos I am not there yet.

Because you still aren't addressing my concerns with you, you're just yapping about Whiskers.

[Desperado]

- None of your pushes make sense.
- You are treating Penguin as town but you aren't defending her from Wis or myself--the only defense you've mounted was a weak chainsaw on Mala that you quickly dropped.
- You are more interested in arguing with Whiskers or talking to Nacho and I about arguing with Whiskers than finding scum. That you "aren't there yet" on

any

additional scum reads (given the weakness of your Whiskers case itself) is alarming. The only one you can give is complete bollocks AND ignores something I already brought up in thread.
- Emotional. Manipulation.

[Desperado]

You weren't talking to Penguin earlier like you didn't know about her, and you ignored the push that Wis and I made on her.

[Desperado]

And why the fuck am I bugging you?

Because its page 26 and you don't have any good reads. Not one.

^How??????

[Desperado]

You think it felt natural this time Nacho?

Because it felt like she was putting on a show to me. I feel like town Mollie would have whipped out the chair wayyyyy before she did.

[Desperado]

Why did it do that?

[Desperado]

wtf mebbe

I[/v] should be the 1 to replace out wis and matt are already getting paranoid about me

I just looked at the sign-ups and you signed-up right after me.

so who are the fuck are you. focus feels to personal, like you are not even scumreading me you are saying these things with the specific purpose of trying to make me feel bad about myself. <----------- either you are a complete and total motherfucking cyberstalking asshole or you are scum. they are not even game related. nowhere are you trying to even to figure out what my alignment is.

Don't bother replacing out--we're just going to lynch you today instead.

I don't think a parallel dimension exists where 686 comes from scum.

The parallel dimension where mollie's self-professed only skill as scum is emotional manipulation.

[Desperado]

mollie, listen here.
If you are town, snap out of it

right now

, leave Whiskers aside, and start scumhunting and commenting on the things that are happening (shos, penguing, etc). It's just a personality trait of his and most certainly NOT something personal with you. So drop it now.

She's had almost 30 pages to snap out of it on her own, and she shouldn't need multiple people prodding her to start scumhunting.

She's scum, dude.

[Desperado]

Because really the only time the chair is posted is when she's town. I mean she might do it as scum, but I have never seen it before in the games she's played with me.

Your thought process can't possibly be this shallow.

[Desperado]

fuck you desp I am not emotionally manipulating any1. if you are scum and you are pulling this d1 lynch me bullshit I am going to be pissed.

Bull fucking shit you aren't.

"Maybe I should replace out since Wis and Mala are already getting paranoid on me?"

^What the fuck is that then?

[Desperado]

I have been scumhunting and don't you dare misep my play again

Last I checked your only scum reads were "soupy."

Your hard townreads are universal outside of Whiskers' conspiracy theory.

Everyone else is unsure.

All of your time has been wasted bitching with or about Whiskers.

Where is the misrep?

[Desperado]

Also, can you quote you saying that Mala and I have a point on Penguin?

Because I remember you attacking Mala for her Penguin read.

[Desperado]

Do you disagree with my points or Grimgroove's points on her?

no. I dislike her sticky read on penny

yabbut she firmed it up

^There it is.

Rereading it I'd say that I got a Whiskers town-read out of it. I'm not clear on why you didn't.

I didn't like her saying that nacho was seriously pretending to be defensive. I got that nacho was joking didn't you? she is clinging to that narrative like a liferaft and all of her posturing is the very definition scum posturing. <------like if I had to take a picture of what scum posturing looks like that would be it.

now why the fuck do you have that as town

And this looks an awful lot like you working with Penguin, immediately after chainsawing on Mala for her.

So where did you say we have a point?

[Desperado]

@ Grim: The essential stuff is that mollie is turning on penguin to save herself even though her early defense of penguin has been a part of my case since the beginning of this extended dance.

[Desperado]

Mollie's stupid shos read might mean mollie/shos scum and penguin town

[Desperado]

Yeah but you think he's scum because you think he's fucking stalking you and being mean or some shit

[Desperado]

Unvote
Vote: Shos

[Desperado]

... though that means, that once more, you are sheeping me.

Nope. I think shos and mollie are connected because of mollie's read on shos, not the other way around as you reasoned it out.

[Desperado]

my reads ARE soupy. I have some town reads and I have a scumread. sometimes I can get reads right away and sometimes I have hard time tuning out noise and as my hydra partner you fucking very well know this. you know that I have walked away from d1 with only 1 tentative scumread. <-----why are you ignoring this? if you are scum then fine but I would never in a million years do this to you if the tables were reversed. lying about my meta as a hydra partner is the single scummiest thing in the game so far it is also the stupidest thing since 2 of my other hydra partners are in this game.

The problem is that you aren't having trouble tuning out the noise--you are creating the fucking noise.

[Desperado]

shos and mollie are connected because of mollie's read on shos

How does that read connect them?

Shos goes from "pondscum but maybe town because of sabotage" to "scum" to "I can't read Shos well because we only have 2 completed games together and he is being trotted out instead of obvscum Whiskers"

[Desperado]

I guess it's gonna have to feel that way then

[Desperado]

Thank you for conftowning a universal townread based on...something.

[Desperado]

I wasn't impressed by Shos' wall. There was very little if any new information as far as I can tell, just a summation of his extended 1v1 with Wisdom.

[Desperado]

Wisdom I am so glad that I don't have to walk on egg shells around you this game. It's so much easier when we are both town.

Although you are making it difficult to say anything original

[Desperado]

If Mala is scum then mollie (shitty chair townread) and penguin (designated ML) are both town

Unvote
Vote: Mala

[Desperado]

@ Wisdom: Arc (early townread w/ mollie) and someone weird...Mirari?

Mala, I'm seeing the same things you are. I don't think it's her towngame either.

With that said, humans are...human, and she might just be off her towngame.

[Desperado]

My issue with her threat to replace out is that she was basically crying wolf. Wisdom didn't start tunnelling her until after she whined about him starting to tunnel her.

PEdit: Derp. I said if you are scum then Penguin is a mislynch.

[Desperado]

So your vote on me to tell me you think I'm town?

what

[Desperado]

If Mala is scum then mollie (shitty chair townread) and penguin (designated ML) are both town

Unvote
Vote: Mala

Where in that post am I calling you town?

[Desperado]

You were calling me town prior and then you decided to flip-flop.

I have never called you town.

[Desperado]

Why can't nacho and I both be town? ;-;

Both Nachomamma abd Malakittens are town and I'm the one misguided. A possibility as well.

[Desperado]

Desp, what was your point there? I think Mala was responding to my "I do think one of them is scum".

I thought she was responding to Grim's big post considering all of the possibilities.

[Desperado]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: penguin

Go join the town pile, Mala. Thank you for your time.

Yea thanks Wisdom for reaffirming my mala townread [:

I'll take an explanation from either one of you

[Desperado]

mmkay

[Desperado]

Seriously, god forbid I should have thoughts or ideas? And under no circumstances should I have answered a question posed to me by another player! What the hell is your problem? Your posts aren't even game related-- this should have been a refutation from you-- they're just you, being an annoying cunt. Go away.

How about you don't call people cunt's and shit?

Jesus christ

[Desperado]

Mala is still scum. Can we lynch her now?

@ Matt: I still think the timing of the replace-out threat points more towards scum than town. It was a pre-emptive, empty threat.

[Desperado]

The mix of playerstyles in this game is not good. Too many alpha dogs...it's stagnating the game really, really badly.

[Desperado]

i love early mass claims

i'd join in but everyone will know who I am and what I do at some point anyway so there's no incentive

[Desperado]

Having said that, given the limited number of potential characters, I'm not sure there's any reason not to mass flavor claim now. Possibly in a more typical theme it would be more of a power giveaway, but everyone's a deity here, so. Eliminating scum's ability to switch fakeclaims if they have them is to the good. I can't see the harm. Don't think I've played in a game where flavor's been mass-claimed D1, but we're quickly moving toward that happening anyways.

fuck yeah

I'm

Hades

[Desperado]

awww the smiley fucked up

[Desperado]

Much better.

Who are you?

[Desperado]

I could lie and told you I knew that Hades and Poseidon were brothers, but I didn't.

[Desperado]

Yet another example of me being completely terrible with bread crumbs.

[Desperado]

The downside to flavor claim now is...?

[Desperado]

The downside to flavor claim now is...?

Scum might get ideas as to who might have what power?

OK.

What do you think my power is?

[Desperado]

Same question to you Ooba

[Desperado]

My power being known is net-neutral.

Answer the question.

[Desperado]

Good guess, but no.

I don't think it's as easy as you do Wisdom.

[Desperado]

I don't think claiming flavor helps scum, I think it hurts them.

I think it's possible they only got the names of Gods that weren't in the game, without full claims attached. I think it's possible they didn't get fakeclaims at all and had to make them up entirely.

[Desperado]

I'm not unvoting.

[Desperado]

wisdom, setup spec with only half of the game claimed is fucking stupid

if you're going to make decisions based on that then we need to mass claim

[Desperado]

I would lynch mirari with you though

[Desperado]

I'm all about town power role synergy but the network you're describing is too vast to be legit, sorry. Mala's claim is only useful now that we know that Grim is a Virgin who can't be neighborized and that there are at least 3 neighborizers.

[Desperado]

Like, if no one had claimed yet and we ended up lynching, say, me today...Mala's role would end up being 100% useless after all of the neighborizers neighborized.

^That doesn't seem like sound setup design to me.

[Desperado]

@ mod - due to changes IRL circumstances I request to be replaced. sorry guys.

<3

[Desperado]

Mirari, why aren't you and ooba doing anything about your mutual conftown status? Like talking about the game and finding scum and shit.

[Desperado]

Matt/Mala/Mirari seems like a fine scumteam to me.

[Desperado]

Mirari surged ahead a while ago

[Desperado]

Because I'm more confident that Matt and Mala are a team.

[Desperado]

Yeah right.

Whiskers/Desp/nacho

the fuck is that supposed to mean

[Desperado]

I buy the stupidity from shos but not from you. There's absolutely zero doubt mala is town now yet you keep acting retarded about it and even replaced mollie instead of her.

Get real, asshole.

[Desperado]

Town get confused about their role too

[Desperado]

Mirari, why aren't you and ooba doing anything about your

mutual conftown status

?

Huh? Is this sarcasm or equally likely, did I miss something?

Mirari and Ooba are treating one another as conftown but are not working together

at all

.

[Desperado]

we disagreed. it's that simple, and doesn't make us stupid, or scum

It does. There's no way you can't understand that the setup points to a role like mala's existing or how the flavor further confirms it. There is absolutely no chance mala is scum, so still pushing that is either stupid or scum acting stupid.

It's not hard to craft a role that fits "the setup" when we only know half of it and half of that half was already claimed by the time she came out. Matt, Whiskers, and Grim had all already claimed--why are you 100% certain that she is town just because her role fits???

You are the one being stupid.

[Desperado]

Did she know what the neighborizers do flavor-wise? Why did she say all that stuff about lovers if she didn't?

If one of the neighborizers is scum then hell yeah she did.

[Desperado]

How? Not even the neighborizers knew about it.

Last I checked Mala was "reading too much into" the lover pairs wording anyway.

Mala gets Aphrodite as a fakeclaim. Mala sees multiple neighbors + a neighborizer interacting role. Mala makes up a fakeclaim that fits her knowledge.

^Why is this so ridiculous to you?

[Desperado]

OK.

Mala gets Aphrodite as her role name.

[Desperado]

Unvote
Vote: Mirari

[Desperado]

But the ika vote made a ton of sense?

Who do you think ika replaced?

[Desperado]

Yeah, even I'm not buying that. Either Mala is legit or she made it up.

[Desperado]

And town need a QT Cop because...?

One of the neighborizers is scum and mala can catch them in a lie. Or find someone with a QT who hasn't been neighborized.

Like, seriously?

[Desperado]

I remember someone accusing Ooba and I not really working together. That is a lie. I told Ooba to not vote Arc. I wasn't going to force him to see it my way, I think he is a better player than I am so I will play second fiddle to his reads but he did eventually change his opinion. We are voting the same person right now too. We are defending each other. That's all working together.

I do not see any effort from the two of you to find scum together. Independently voting the same person and defending each other isn't working together.

[Desperado]

I don't think anyone would have looked at Wingate and been like "fuck yeah let's do that again!"

this isn't multiball

[Desperado]

wrt flavour? Yeah.
There's also a picture of Apollo, if that counts for anything.

The rest is-- wait, let me show you.

Role Name & Role

I am apollo, the god of light and music and stuff,

[IMAGE]

I have power during the day.

Explanation of the ability.

Then my wincondition.

Then my role-confirm method.

Wisdom, this is exactly the same format as my role PM.

Have you lost your fucking mind?

[Desperado]

like the last two pages from you are pathetic and desperate and just, jesus man

[Desperado]

Yes I fucking read what happened you idiot.

Whiskers role PM is the exact same as mine. Down to the "flavor" that you are obsessed with for no reason.

[Desperado]

Nope, it sure doesn't.

It says

"You are the god of the Underworld.



Image



Abilities: Explanation of ability."

[Desperado]

Nope.

[Desperado]

Maybe only knowing half of the town role PMs isn't enough fucking information to try to push someone on setup spec

like i said 10 pages ago

[Desperado]

And maybe, just MAYBE

one of the fucking four people that had already claimed is scum lying to you

[Desperado]

Fitz' explanation could easily be a turn of phrase and his way of paraphrasing.

[Desperado]

I also don't see Matt saying his flavor at all. Can you quote that for me?

[Desperado]

That also looks like a paraphrasing technique.

[Desperado]

No it isn't?

Fitz says

It says as the messenger god, I can contact the other gods different ways. Each night, I can select a player to neighborize and add to my QT.

Which is no different from Whiskers claiming

I guess I'm not sure what you're asking, Wisdom. I'm Apollo, and I can choose someone to neighbourize, and then we get a Quicktopic together.

Maybe see if someone else answers your question with a better answer.

[Desperado]

"You can contact the other gods in different ways" is so vague and I'm getting tired of this conversation now

[Desperado]

Because Whiskers' role PM is the same as mine and you don't have enough information to be right about jack shit

[Desperado]

I am tired so mostly read to keep up, but townread on ooba and Mirari gets strengthened in the last 6 pages or so.

For what reason?

Probably the same reason I think you two look better: there's a tag-team energy to your most recent posting that wasn't present earlier.

[Desperado]

lol that's a joke right? you can't actually think 13 wisdoms would produce a good game of mafia

Unvote
Vote: Ika

[Desperado]

Des needs to participate more. Honestly, i remember mollie more than him. Dont remember shit about him.

???

Fucking ISO me then. This doesn't even pass as base criticism.

[Desperado]

Yeah he has.

[Desperado]

I don't understand how anyone townie with a power and flavor inside the ability description doesn't vote whiskers.

I'm town and don't have it either. We went over this pretty extensively.

And games ARE designed with D1 mass claims in my mind--good mods punish them.

[Desperado]

What troubles me is one thing.

mollie, like shos, might have been so annoyed with your playstyle that she convinced herself you are scum. If I recall, I also did in the beginning. Given that's my main reason for thinking she was scum, I'm starting getting cold feet about this lynch.

UNVOTE:

mollie is going to be so pissed that you just compared her to shos

[Desperado]

Point being: mollie is better than immediately descending into confirmation bias and eschewing the rest of the game in the process.

[Desperado]

No, she isn't. I've seen her stubbornly pushing lynches that make sense only to her.

That's cool. It also isn't what I said.

[Desperado]

Nope. Mollie never got past her tunnel on Whiskers to do anything in this game. That goes beyond "stubbornly pushing a lynch that only she understands."

And do you realize how impossible you are to play with?

[Desperado]

This day really needs to end.

It seems that none of my scumreads (whis, mat, mal) are viable lynches. It also seems that many people are voting ika for reasons i cannot parse. This feels like the wagon is full with sheep and scum; not a single person defends that slot(apart for me, i guess you can say that), not even ika himself...

No, they arent. Do you have any actual reason for ika being town? Not because of who is voting him or this crap, but actual content from ika or mollie that shows the slot is town. Do you?

Dunno when deadline is, but we should plan night actions as best as possible, and well - lynch scum preferably lol

There are no actions to plan. Deadline is in 2 days or so.

We're not lynching Matt. Choose between ika and penguin.

What troubles me is one thing.

mollie, like shos, might have been so annoyed with your playstyle that she convinced herself you are scum. If I recall, I also did in the beginning. Given that's my main reason for thinking she was scum, I'm starting getting cold feet about this lynch.

UNVOTE:

penguin maybe, Grim absolutely not.

@ooba
I'd prefer Nacho, maybe even Desp, over penguin right now. What do you think about them?

This has all happened within two hours. You've gone from demanding someone else choose between Ika and Penguin because we are two days from the deadline and this day needs to end, to trying to open up two brand new lynches.

You are a fart in the wind, dude.

[Desperado]

And to word it better, my point is not "mollie is like shos".
My point is that Whiskers' play is so frustrating, that it can lead people into thinking he is scum. It was the case with me in the beginning, and it was the case now with shos.
So it easily could have been the same with mollie.

And my point is that mollie's towngame is better than that.

Her scumgame isn't.

[Desperado]

Yeah, especially mollie, who almost always dies N1 and thinks that her D1 reads are always her best reads.

[Desperado]

She would totally be lazy as fuck and waste all of D1 tunnelling on someone based on rote confirmation bias.

[Desperado]

Hey Mala

how about you vote someone

[Desperado]

@ Nacho: Mollie totally making up some bullshit about Whiskers being an alt cyberstalking her (despite a 2011 join date) didn't seem lazy to you?

[Desperado]

Yeah except for that big case he made on her later

I'll try compressing all my thoughts in this single post.

Spoiler: Why Mala is scum

• She has ignored posts she should be responding to and only did so after prodded about it or didn't do it at all.
  
• She has been focusing on a single player and has done little if any scumhunting. When her one suspect posted, she didn't care about the post until later.
  
• She has repeatedly addressed, pointed out, or generally placed her focus on irrelevant things or things with zero value in regards to finding scum. Notably, some of those things could have some value to appearing less scummy. An example would be "I have to go see the number of the games I have with Nacho and with Wisdom". Nobody cares.
  
• She made a huge deal of my "tunneling" on her in the beginning of the game, back when what I was doing wasn't even remotely resembling a tunnel. She even threatened to replace out. It is completely fake if you consider that I have never tunneled on her before when she was town. I have tunneled on her twice when she was scum.
  
• Her "I thought MattP is an Actor" thing is out of character for her and looks fake. Imo, this even looks like it was pre-planned by a scumpartner, especially considering Matt's reply to it. But that's speculation. The point is it's fake.
  
• The reads she has provided do not seem natural. For example, her mollie read is weird. She used something completely null, mollie's chair thing, to enhance her townread on her, which was there since early for no apparent reason, and she has not doubted it at all despite mollie being completely weird and useless.
  
• Similarities with other Mala-scum games I have witnessed. I went into details about that in a previous post.
  
• There are times that Mala looks like she is not following the game closely, such as her "penguin is scum and you don't want to see it" to me, when I had stated that I am scumreading penguin, but some posts of her like 879(dude he (mattp) took a break) shows she is actually following and picking up even little details like that. Which means that when it looks like she is not following, it's an act.

Spoiler: Why Matt is scum

• As noted by others, he is less active and less engaged as compared to when he is town [
  counter argument
  : He claimed he is changing his play after his break]
  
• His buddying on me. People who don't know me enough get paranoid with my egocentric playstyle and think I am scum (see shos and Whiskers). Matt didn't doubt his read on me but only when people started stating their suspicion of the mutual buddying. And then found an excuse to go back to townreading me, too easily.
  
• His last posts since the "morality issue" have been centered around it. It's like he stopped caring about the game and started caring only about people "finding him immoral". What he did cannot be considered immoral, no matter which way you look at it; but even so, that's not even what's important. What's important is that he is overreacting and using that thing as a distraction.
  
• His involvement in Mala's "Actor" thing in the beginning - he reacted instantly when Mala began that, and his response was a little theatrical. It could point to it being a pre-organised plan. Again, speculation, and this point will only matter if Mala flips scum.
  
• He has stopped scumhunting (third point relevant) and has parked his vote on shos.

Spoiler: Why mollie is scum

• Her Whiskers push is too nonsensical and stupid, even for mollie. She should understand by now that Whiskers plays like that, and she should at least be ignoring him if not having fixed the issue between them. The whole thing is an act and a distraction.
  
• She is not scumhunting (above point relevant). She should have some suspects by now - she has none. When asked who she wants to lynch, she dodged and said that penguin is better than Mala. Which was not an answer.
  
• Some of her reads looks very fake. For instance, the read she gave on MattP in 1338 looks like a textbook fake townread that applies to every scenario.
  
• Meta. This is not how town-mollie plays. I won't go into details.
  
• Counter argument:
  mollie can be this stupid sometimes and focus on things that might not make much sense (hence my "when does mollie ever make sense" to Desperado). But I think she is way past the acceptable limit.

Spoiler: Why Nacho might be scum

• Meta. It's the first time I see him not being the town-leader. Or actually, I have seen him not being the town-leader again - he was scum.
  
• Extreme WKing on Mala. He knows I can read Mala, and he has seen me shouting to people to lynch her only for Mala to go on to win the game because people, including him, didn't listen. He should at least doubt his townread on her a little. Instead he is being stubborn and tries everything he can to discredit my read on her - claiming I am tunneling, misrepping my case to a bunch of bullshit that makes no sense, etc. I really believe town-Nacho would consider the possibility I am right, however small that might be in his mind.
  
• He is not scumhunting. He is not pushing anyone. I've never seen Nacho being this passive and pushing completely noone. He has been voting shos after sheeping Matt, and has not cared to try and actually read shos. He has not tried to interact with shos to see how shos might be town. He does not have other suspects! Nacho should have tons of things to say and actual suspects at this point in the game. Nothing. And again, even if he's voting shos, he is not actually pushing for him to be lynched. Which he always does with his suspects.
  
  Note: As I said, I don't think he is scum with Mala, but he could be scum with the other two. So I think that if I am somehow wrong about Mala, Nacho replacing her in the scumteam still makes sense.

Spoiler: Other people who could be scum but don't really think so

-shos: I think his posting has greatly improved lately, while his earlier play was just bad town play. Still, there's always the possibility he managed to improve his otherwise obvious scumplay from earlier and turn it into something that can make sense as town.
-penguin: More or less, same as shos. She seemed very scummy in the beginning, especially considering her meta, but her later posts starting with that wall are much better and could mean that she just had a slow start.
-havingfitz: Only due to the fact that we have not seen much content from that slot, so everything is possible. Arc was kinda town considering her meta though, so I don't think so.
-Mirari: I liked penguin's read on her. I did not like her "Mala is voting her, wagon is so good", nor did I like her "You are all crazy, Mala is town", especially considering she is still a newbie with 2? completed games. She does not appear to consider the fact Mala could be scum at all. And I don't like her sticky read on penguin either. Still, her general tone, especially early, gave me town vibes, so I can't say I can be sure about anything here.

Spoiler: The rest of the players are town

-Whiskers: I very much like the way he is scrutinizing people. I also like how he does not get swayed by whatever says but questions everything and tries to prove how it might not make sense. For example, shos stated that the penguin wall was hard to attack - he proved that point wrong. Or, while he kind of came to an understanding of why I found Mala scummy, he still called me out on the things he thought didn't make sense. Not to mention his paranoia of my playstyle and even his attempts of trying to make me play less for myself and more for the town, which are always positive points for a player who meets me for the first time. Very very town, will never lynch.
-Grimgroove: I like his reads, which align very much with mine, as well as the various theories he comes up with. I also liked the way he reacted when I semi-faked a tunnel on him early on. It reminded me of the town-Grimgroove I had actually tunneled on in another game.
-ooba: I liked him since the beginning, and he has not given me any reason to change that. I like his content, and while I might disagree with some of his reads, they don't appear fake or opportunistic.
-Desperado: He made me paranoid for a while because of his sheeping, but that stopped mattering much when I saw his aggressive push on mollie, which I very much liked. Then I was even more happy in my townread on him when he continued scumreading Mala despite my stating that she is town.

And to reiterate, the correct lynch among those 3(4?) most scummy players for me is Mala. She is the most scummy, and regardless, her lynch will be a great information source. There are at least 3 people who claim that they are strongly townreading her and at least 4 people who claim they are strongly scumreading her. While this diversity can be found on other players (penguin, for example), the reads are nowhere as strong.

[Desperado]

also, wisdom, real talk

767 posts on day one?!?!?!

[Desperado]

that's not healthy dude

[Desperado]

He called Mala the scummiest before she claimed, which is totally accurate. The only reason Mala isn't dead is her claim. It's not entirely Wisdom's fault that we are pushing 110 pages in day one of a mini. Enough things have happened to where calling 75+ of the playerlist scum at some point isn't indicative of anything but Wisdom's tendency to push anything that seems remotely out of step.

[Desperado]

Are you agreeing with him that mollie was obvscum?

...

Yes. I'm the one that convinced him she was scum.

[Desperado]

Desperado, whatever you convinced Wisdom of WRT mollie obviously didn't stick for either of you at the time. But your case was: that town-mollie wouldn't be pushing Whiskers in the way she did. That town-mollie wouldn't join bad wagons on Nacho/ooba/Whiskers. This isn't the town-mollie you know from hydraing with her. mollie being associated with me and then with shos makes her scum. And then...it goes off into Mala/MattP/Mirari.

It didn't stick because she replaced out and more important things happened. What's up with you ignoring a bunch of context to discredit our read on mollie?

[Desperado]

I'm also not comfortable with you claiming how many shots you have, or with you claiming commuter and then inviting Mala to check you when my understanding is that commuting prevents all night actions targeted at you from resolving. I don't see any reason why Mala's power would override that.

Unvote
Vote: Penguin

[Desperado]

At this point not being specific about the number of shots I have is unlikely to end well. And the point is that unless you seriously think I'm a scum commuter I won't show up as having a QT.

You say more important stuff came up--but you say you saw obvscum-Mollie, and you didn't go back to that after Mala's claim. Maybe you're right about mollie-ika, but much as I like the people on the wagon, I don't have a good vibe about the way people leaped on there.

No, the point is that you straight up told us that the neighbor mechanic may not be as straight forward as it seems--I could speculate for a while but there are obvious ways to make scum appear like they don't have a QT. And the REAL point is that you invited Mala to check you even though you will be "commuting" which shouldn't make sense to you given that commuters prevent all night actions from resolving. Why would Mala still get a "no-QT" result and not the "couldn't resolve action" result that every other PR would theoretically get on you?

I didn't go back after Mala's claim because I gave Ika a chance to play and he didn't change my opinion of the slot, and then I voted him.

[Desperado]

Penguin, why didn't you just vote Ika before?

Why go through the trouble of questioning our trajectory on the slot if you are just going to challenge us to "put our money where our mouth is?"

[Desperado]

Answer: For towncred.

Please die.

[Desperado]

I invite Desperado and Wisdom to put their money where their mouths are.

I need everyone to understand how disingenuous this is. Wisdom and I have never wavered on mollie/ika scum, and at the time that this charade started I was already voting Ika and Wisdom had already expressed his willingness to lynch Ika at deadline. Penguin goes through a bunch of hoops and ignores a ton of content to question the validity of the Ika wagon, only to join it later and declare they don't have a townread there?

Bullshit.

[Desperado]

So because I wasn't eager to lynch ika when according to you townies should put self-preservation above all else? When my town game has very little to do with self-preservation?

Extrapolating from there, I assume you have me as scum with mollie-ika. I've claimed a role that's pretty useless for scum and guaranteed that I can be cleared by a QT cop N2 or N3, said cop's choice. What's the opportunity cost of lynching ika? If he flips scum, I eat crow and likely get lynched tomorrow. Hell, lynch ika, and if he flips scum I'll stick around to be available to vig shots if we have them.

Why would you assume that and not just ask me before going off on silly speculation?

Cuz I don't have you both as scum.

[Desperado]

Desperado, I didn't vote ika before because I wanted more information from him directly. That's pretty well shot to hell now.

Question to you: I was in minimal danger of being lynched until I challenged the ika wagon. It's true that I don't bus as scum, but unless you think I'm scum with ika and he has some massively awesome scum role, why would I blatantly interrupt the wagon? God knows scum-me learned my lesson on that count in NY 164 WRT thezmon. And if you think I threw myself in the line of fire to protect him as a teammate with a better role, you would want him lynched over me.

P-edit: what the hell? You think I'm scum and ika's not now?

If you slip scum, yeah.

[Desperado]

Desperado, I didn't vote ika before because I wanted more information from him directly. That's pretty well shot to hell now.

Ika replaced in how long ago? And has provided 0 information. Why did you expect that to change a day before the deadline?

[Desperado]

OK, I'm not a total idiot as scum, and you know that quite well. What's my scum motivation to question a lynch on town-ika with deadline looming? There isn't one, full stop. I had mollie as a scum read at various times; I could have quite easily been 'persuaded' by the VIness of ika's posts in conjunction with that. No need to take responsibility, and given the shit people have been giving me for keeping my vote on Mirari, it would have been a heck of a lot easier to acquiesce.

P-edit: I didn't have high hopes for getting info out of ika, but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in trying.

The scum motivation is towncred when Ika flips town.

I already said that.

[Desperado]

Hell yeah. You just said townplay is not about self-preservation. Not voting Ika out of self-preservation would therefore be interpreted as a towntell FYPOV.

And the kicker is that you went and voted Ika anyway. Gotta get that mislynch right

[Desperado]

You didn't vote at that time, and then transitioned into questioning the validity of the wagon, only to vote it anyway.

^The middle part is the scummy part. If you had continued questioning the validity of the wagon it would be town, or if you hadn't done that and just voted it would also look town.

[Desperado]

Vote: HavingFitz

I was pretty confident Wisdom was town based on the limited reading I did thus far. Now, I'll vote someone to get the game started again.

Why were you confident he was town and why are you telling us that as you vote Fitz?

MattP claimed Neighborizer, not enabler. I isoed MattP towards that end. We are a neighborizer and targeted Wisdom. I picked the player with the most posts to ensure I'd have a decent conversation tomorrow night and to help fill in any gaps that may exist in my play due to the fact I cannot read Day 1 as it happened.

The role works as I believe Whiskers explained. Pick during night 1, neighbor chat during night 2. No one should have a neighborizer PM from me but I realize that is pretty convinent.

What made you think this is what Whiskers explained?

That scum team also coincides with what I think about the setup... Let me think about this...

Anyway, as I was saying... This is what the setup is:

3 x Neighbourizers
- Apollo
- Haep
- Hermes

3 x Virgins (Cannot be Neighbourzied)
- Artemis
- Athena
- Hestia

1 x QT Cop
- Aphrodite

- Rest (Zeus, Poseidon, Hades, Hera, Demeter, Ares)

Anyway the entire game seems to be designed on QT shenanigans so Mala being scum is out of the question. What I meant by my previous scum team fitting the setup theory is that I expect one scum to be in the Neighbourizers (fitz), one in the virgins (Grim) and one in the rest (Peng).

why do you think there would be a scum virgin? dunno why it doesn't sit well on me.
and three virgins is hard to believe as well; the gods are definitely not virgins, and we only have one virgin claim, so that's odd.

Scum virgin = Godfather role so there's an elegance to that design.

All three I mentioned are virgins
http://camphalfblood.wikia.com/wiki/Virgin_Goddesses
Actually, we have two virgin claims if you're reading between the lines. (Also the inspiration for the theory)

^P-edit: Additionally, ooba, have you noticed that there are only 12 "big named" gods?
Ya I noticed - Hestia is the other olympian in the game though - Also fits with the theory.

Ooba's D1 setup spec was obviously wrong. Hestia already flipped and it wasn't Virgin.

[Desperado]

I wish Wisdom were here so I could rub in his face how wrong he was about the stupid fucking penguin lynch at the end. Only god damn player in this game actually

playing

the game. With him gone, it's going to be a slooow game, lots of active lurking, and there's going to come a point where I just don't give a damn anymore, and will replace out. Because I can't force any of you to play, and I can't convince any of you to lynch lurkers.
I'm calling it now, that's all.

I've generally bought into your shtick but this one sounds fake as balls. There is no reasonable justification for suggesting Wisdom was the

only one

playing, and dropping this kind of woe-is-us bullshit now is nothing more than you covering your tracks for your fade as the game goes on. Prove me wrong.

Failing that, stop whining about imaginary problems and get focused.

Vote: Ika

[Desperado]

I'm really,

really

disappointed that we ended up lynching Penguin, too. Just so everyone knows. Like, I know it's going to make me look bad to make a big fucking deal out of it, but I'm still aghast that anybody

let

that lynch go through, let alone that half of you voted her in the first place.

Matter of fact, this one is pretty fucking fake too. You made one attempt to stop the wagon, 11 hours before the deadline:

Nope, I'll vote ika if it comes to that. Though I really really prefer penguin right now.

Dude, I don't get it.
I mean, I'm sitting here and literally every post penguin has ever made, you have quoted it and replied "WHOA YOU'RE SO SCUMMY."
And I'm just not fucking seeing it at all.

Even when you explain that shit-- like you did recently, last page in fact-- although, you never explain it often enough for people to share your reads, do you?-- I sit there and I'm like, "...yeeeaaaaaaaaaah.... I

guess

.... that

kiiiiind of

makes sense..." But it seems like you're just coming up with things to fit your predetermined read. Or, you're taking the actual reasoning for stuff, and twisting it to make it look scummy.
Idk, maybe it's just me. But there hasn't been a single post by Penguin that has made me go, "Ah. I want to lynch this individual." And granted, there haven't been a ton of posts from penguin. But seriously. I'd be more comfortable lynching havingfitz, for god's sake, than penguin.

btw, has anybody

defended

peng? I don't recall.

And nothing else. So your sanctimony is falling on deaf ears.

[Desperado]

Anyway the entire game seems to be designed on QT shenanigans so Mala being scum is out of the question. What I meant by my previous scum team fitting the setup theory is that I expect one scum to be in the Neighbourizers (fitz), one in the virgins (Grim) and one in the rest (Peng).

Backtracking on the above because you think Mala faked emotion is scummy as fuck.

I actually thought the post in question was tame, and if you don't expect Mala to protect her friend from someone dragging her name through the mud then you don't have the necessary experience to determine whether Mala's level of emotion is fake or not.

[Desperado]

I did iso for penguin. Why don't you quote all of your efforts to stop the penguin lynch and make me look dumb?

[Desperado]

I did iso for penguin. Why don't you quote all of your efforts to stop the penguin lynch and make me look dumb?

Spoiler: ok

I don't think penguin is scum, but most of all, penguin is being more useful than most of you. I'd policy not-lynch her.

Also, does anybody want to remind me why penguino is scum?

And since there

weren't

another seven pages today, I suppose I'll ask this instead:
Wisdom, why now,

not

shos? I know there was a big block in there that I didn't really comprehend, but why is it a penguin lynch, instead of a shos lynch?

-snip-

Yeah see,
You're losing the Whiskers vote on this one because your case is, "meta, meta." If all you have are meta tells, it's not a case I'm interested in falling for, especially not on Day 1. From the look of what you said here, you

should

be able to just go, "She's lurking", simple as that, and then go "ergo, she's scum." Which isn't really a strong case either, but it's stronger than "Meta, lol," which is maybe not exactly what you're saying, but it's exactly what I'm reading in your posts.




In other words, this.

While I don't disagree with the meta itself; why are you not waiting for her to actually post, but instead are encouraging people to speedlynch her? Why do you rule out that she is just inactive for her own reasons and jump to the conclusion she is inactive because she is scum?

Also, I wouldn't not-lynch ika, he's like if you took all the AtE from mollie and replaced it with nothing. The posts coming from that slot aren't really any less stupid-- nor do they show any less stubbornness, with ika saying, "We do things differently around there!" and using that as a reason to keep the same style he has on a different site...

Yeah.

I just wondered why you, wisdom, put ika in that list of whatever it is.

Besides, if I'm not mistaken, if the mollie slot flips scum, we can go right up to lynching shos again.

I'm feeling both penguin and ika are scum right now.

Then policy lynch.

Nope, I'll vote ika if it comes to that. Though I really really prefer penguin right now.

Dude, I don't get it.
I mean, I'm sitting here and literally every post penguin has ever made, you have quoted it and replied "WHOA YOU'RE SO SCUMMY."
And I'm just not fucking seeing it at all.

Even when you explain that shit-- like you did recently, last page in fact-- although, you never explain it often enough for people to share your reads, do you?-- I sit there and I'm like, "...yeeeaaaaaaaaaah.... I

guess

.... that

kiiiiind of

makes sense..." But it seems like you're just coming up with things to fit your predetermined read. Or, you're taking the actual reasoning for stuff, and twisting it to make it look scummy.
Idk, maybe it's just me. But there hasn't been a single post by Penguin that has made me go, "Ah. I want to lynch this individual." And granted, there haven't been a ton of posts from penguin. But seriously. I'd be more comfortable lynching havingfitz, for god's sake, than penguin.

btw, has anybody

defended

peng? I don't recall.

Yeah, I feel even better about what I said now. I don't see you ever calling penguin town or analyzing her play, and when the time came to actually defend her (you know, when her lynch was imminent) you made one attempt to say that Penguin is null and that we should be policy lynching Ika instead. Not impressed.

Assuming all players are town (since we don't know which are and aren't; Schrodinger's cat), who should scum have killed last night?
This is a question that everybody feeling bold can feel free to answer.

Wisdom is the correct answer. No one "defeated" him yesterday, and he was a threat to every potential scum team.

The watcher flip makes the QT cop claim a bit strange, but I think that ignoring the sheer number of QTs in this game and the weird mechanic of them would be a mistake. I don't really see why else Elyse would make this the case (unless she was looking to center the game around a role such as QT cop), so I don't think watcher flip is enough to make that a scum claim quite yet. I mean, even if Mala knew about the neighborhoods beforehand, the claim would still be creative as hell and a pretty impressive thing to pull off, don't you think?

But I disagree with this. Mala probably did not lie about the role - and Elyse designed this around QTs and QT cop - yes but no reason to not have made the QT cop scum. Let me think about this a bit more.

????

Where was this thought process yesterday?

[Desperado]

wrong answer.

VOTE: 1baldeagle1
a townie would just say no.

Shos conducting both reaction tests detracts from their inherent towny nature.

Anyways, I'm slightly leaning town on shos for that pressure. I'll catch up later tonight.

See above.

When she plays off site, she usually emulates her town meta as closely as possible and goes for "fake paranoia" angle, discredits those who can play with her, etc. What happened here was definitely 100% not that.

???

mollie made a pretty strong push on Whiskers for reasons that essentially equalled "the way Whiskers is treating me is for outside of the game reasons like she knows me and is cyberstalking me".

??!?!?!??

Make up your mind?? It was definitely 100% not "fake paranoia," except that the whole thing was "whiskers is cyberstalking me"!?!? Pick one, maybe?

10/10 would read again.

I tried pointing this out to Nacho once already--the fact that he didn't recalibrate after that exchange and repeated the same (inaccurate) line about why Mollie was town is a red flag.

[Desperado]

I know what the idea is, I was saying that you doing both of them makes them both less townie overall. I was challenging bald calling you town for the "pressure" when it was a cheap move irrespective of alignment.

[Desperado]

I didn't think much about it, and his claim is consistent with Grim's play.

[Desperado]

GG was on Mala's ass all game until towards the end of the day, where he trended neutral because you "simply don't lynch a PR day one" and then in his first point he votes Ika "to give his successor somewhere to look" and then says Mala is his strongest townread (because of claim).

[Desperado]

uh, that is quite wrong. read through GG's posts, starting from around ISO 136 if I remember correctly. he flipped on mala - and put her in the town pile, in the not-fine-with-lynching pile, etc. that really doesn't fit.

Grim pushed Mala up to a point, where he said "You don't lynch PRs D1" and then started doing other things. And then Mala is now his strongest townread in his first post of D2 when his thoughts on her D1 are not indicative of an A#1 townread.

[Desperado]

starting from this post and onwards - GG was always calling mala town, assuming mala is town, setup speccing when mala's town, etc.

Exactly--that's the point where he realized he wasn't going to be able to get Mala lynched, so he switched gears and decided to just visit her tonight instead. Which he did. Upon which Mala was his biggest townread for something that made her just null/unlychable the day before.

[Desperado]

What im trying to say is that eagles claimed night actions are HORRIBLY not fitting to GGs play and thoughts, and i think he is lying about that role.

GG is an awesome player. He wouldnt suicide without a note.

He wasn't suiciding. He was checking Mala to make sure she was town. And if Mala really were scum and Grim had died, it wouldn't have taken much thought to conclude that Mala was his target.

You are wrong. Now you can either recognize that and capitulate, or continue spewing bullshit to justify a shitty vote.

[Desperado]

If anyone can tell me how ggs play makes any sense to go target scumread as weak without crumbing it ill film myself eating paper

[Desperado]

He was confirming Mala as town, which is essential to all of the setup speculation that dominated D1.

[Desperado]

I mean for fuck's sake, if you get a cop role, and have a 100 pages long day 1. you will probably finisht he day with, what, at least 2 scumreads? at least one leaning-scum- guy that survives the lynch??? why would you target your best townread????

Mala was not a townread for Grim. He capitulated on his Mala read because continuing to push it when no one else was interested in lynching her would have been counterproductive. When he realized he would not be able to get Mala lynched, he moved her into the "not for lynching today" pile based on her claim, saying that you "simply don't lynch a PR D1." Even though he had been pushing Mala even after her claim earlier in the day. This was Grim telegraphing that he was going to use his role on Mala N1. His first post of D2 listed Mala as his biggest townread based on her claim--which he didn't even buy D1. Because he investigated her and lived. Then he voted Ika to "tell his successor where to look."

Do you get it now?

[Desperado]

I have already read the fucking quotes, Shos.

Your interpretation is wrong

.

[Desperado]

stop and think for a moment

I'm done here.

[Desperado]

I think Ika makes more sense for today's lynch.

[Desperado]

My unease about Nacho is increasing...

Based on what?

[Desperado]

in the ISO I found the reason why I thought ooba was town and I stand by it. Mirari needs to be looked at; titus and his predecessor, most definitely; Des...meh. I just can't seem to remember anything about you, des. duno why.

That's the 2nd time you've said something like that, and it didn't make sense then either. If you can't seem to remember anything about me, that's a you problem.

[Desperado]

Desp, he's leaving himself open to a nocontent vote.

What?

[Desperado]

I really can't see how both eagle AND gg suck in playing weak.

can we still lynch this? please?

You're a moron, dude.

[Desperado]

OK I see now.

pedit: Hi Kise.

[Desperado]

Good.
So is it ok that he targets me or mala? And mala targets nacho/ika/des?

I like that although I think Eagle should hit where Mala cannot - in the neighborizers.

It's more optimal to continue clearing non-claims, hence:

Lynch Ika
Eagle on Shos
Mala on me

Let's go.

[Desperado]

^^^that's a hammer, I think, lol x)
why haven't you waited for a claim? why haven't you posted any content?

I would say Ika's silence is pretty deafening.

[Desperado]

Nacho is town, forever and ever amen--that's the main thing I take away from those two flips.

[Desperado]

Why did you reach that conclusion?

I don't think scum-Nacho would let himself be so over-the-top wrong about scum-Mollie.

[Desperado]

wait what

[Desperado]

what?

[Desperado]

Since we are claimed I want a mass claim stat.
Nacho first and then desperado.

Shos, it is Day 3, where is your night 2 information?

I don't get it. You were mason partners without day chat and we still had to call you out for not communicating/solving the game enough in the thread?

And Nacho is town so I don't really care, I'm Hades and I'm a restless spirit. I get to vote for the entire day after my death via PM to the mod.

[Desperado]

Mirari, Kise, Bald, Fitz all town via claim

+

Nacho and Whiskers town via play

= shos/Titus scum

[Desperado]

Vote: Titus

[Desperado]

Mirari, Kise, Bald, Fitz all town via claim

+

Nacho and Whiskers town via play

= shos/Titus scum

Ok this vote is just bad and you should feel bad. Shos is OMGUSing, but your theory requires me to A) push ika hard and then push my other scum buddy hard in the same day to possibly no benefit of being confirmed town. There was no one else I wanted to really push yesterday. Your theory sucks major.

My theory has almost nothing to do with you or your play, so if you're going to try and discredit it, you either need to: case Nacho or Whiskers as scum, or tell me which pair of claims is fake. Otherwise, my hands are pretty much tied.

[Desperado]

Why the fuck would the remaining two scum claim masons together when they still need three mislynches to win? There's no way they'd be able to explain why they're both still alive three in LYLO.

[Desperado]

@Desperado...so Nacho is town because he was wrong about scum....and you're ok that he was wrong about penguin (D1) and me (D2)?  Worst town annointment ever.

I was wrong about Penguin too and you haven't flipped yet. Do you think Nacho is scum?

[Desperado]

Desperado...if you were lynched or NK'd would your PM votes show up in the mod's votecounts?

Yeah, Elyse will post my votes in thread and they will count.

[Desperado]

Post 3281 is a claim that doesn't instill belief IMO.  I'm ok with suspicions directed at Nacho.

Bomb would be such a lame fake claim that I refuse to believe Nacho made it up.

Nacho is town. I think it's Titus and Eagle.

[Desperado]

Preach on, brother

[Desperado]

First, no deity so we cannot assess the validity of the claim.

I am Ares, god of war.
Kudos for the attempt to find a reason to call me scum, though.

#rekt

I prefer eagle declaring a target outright, but if he decides to roll between two people, those two people should be me and Desperado.
Eagle targetting scum and dying is not such a big deal when he says he's going to target one person (because confirmed scum), but eagle targetting scum and dying + not having a definite scumpick is an absolutely shitty situation and leads to a possible 2 mislynches - 1 scum lynch situation which isn't awesome.
A "I protected the masons" claim tomorrow is a policy lynch tomorrow.

This is what's happening.

[Desperado]

Counterwagons???

This isn't fucking D1 of a large.

Not too mention that your "counterwagon" was started in self preservation by scum and for what appear to be role related reasons.

@ Nacho: Why are you asking someone to put Titus out of her misery when you can do it? You aren't voting and she's at L-1...

[Desperado]

I did Neighborize Nacho, like I said I would.
Sounds like Eagle is alive, too, so Nacho is town.


Kise is confirmed town from Masonflip.
If Eagle is town, then Nacho is confirmed Town.
If Eagle is town, then havingFitz is confirmed Town.

Players to lynch:
Eagle
Desperado
Whiskers
Shos.

Ok so here's what we do.
Lynch Whiskers today.
If scum kill Eagle, then three players (Nacho, fitz, and Kise) are confirmed town, and two players (Desperado and Shos) aren't-- and must be scum. Automatic town win.

If scum

don't

kill eagle, then Eagle instead has the chance to investigate another player-- for the sake of argument, let's say Shos.
Let's say scum kills Kise, obviously the best kill for scum this Night. So to recap:
Lynch Whiskers
Nightkill Kise
Investigate/Doc Shos.
This leaves Eagle, Desperado, and Shos in the morning.
If Eagle is town, then Eagle will die, flipping and clearing Nacho and fitz, and confirming Shos as scum. Lynch Shos, lynch Desperado, town wins.*
If Eagle is not town, then eagle will still be alive-- meaning that her previous clears are actually

not

cleared-- but then, you've caught one scum, Eagle.

*Actually, this endgames us, doesn't it? townNacho and townFitz vs scumShos and scumDesp? So maybe that dosen't work after all.

I don't understand why scum-me is being considered here.

Did you forget about my claim? It was town as balls.

[Desperado]

I don't understand why scum-me is being considered here.

Did you forget about my claim? It was town as balls.

Only for the sake of example.

Actually, no, I don't remember your claim.

Restless Spirit.

[Desperado]

Vote: havingfitz

[Desperado]

Dual mollie/arc townreads in the first five pages were fake as hell

Fitz's Ika interactions are terrible. He votes him late D1 because he "doesn't like" his posting, but he doesn't pursue the read or interact with Ika at all. Ika ignores his vote in kind.

D2 is even worse--Ika is a legitimate wagon (and the one Fitz wanted at the end of D1) with Titus-Desp-Grim and instead of helping us push Ika with a vote, Fitz says:

Here....on vacation at the moment (until the 6th) so a bit distracted. Staying caught up for the most part on the reading....easier now with wisdom gone.

Pre-lynch suspicions towards Matt (Titus) and ika still remain. Still mulling over next step...no rush.

First, the notion that this game would be easier with Wisdom gone is scum mindset 100%. Second, he still wants to lynch Ika but won't vote him because there's no rush??? Inexplicable. Fitz proceeds to ignore Ika completely

again

except for one single blurb in his massive catchup in #3161, in which he says "Ika is taking a shit...good to know." I'm not making this up.

Finally, as Ika's lynch culminates fitz reads like frustrated scum begging his partner to fakeclaim SOMETHING:

ika - pretty worthless.  Lynching feels a bit policy-esque but I would not want to have this playing in a LYLO situation.  Plus...scum can be worthless too. 
 
Happy to vote ika pending their claim.

What is your claim ika?

You're online and posting. Shouldn't be difficult.

And then his first vote D3 is on Kise for not letting scum (that he wanted to be lynched) fake claim??

VOTE: Kise

For the quick hammer on ika without a chance to claim and for not doing anything. No reads....no content. Just expecting town's trust.

tl;dr: the Fitz and Ika slots had scummy interactions going back to their Arc/Mollie iterations. You should vote him.