I had better be able to do this.
Mini Normal 1861: Musical Mafia (TOWN WIN)
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Like even if you're trying to say he was trying to not roll his scumpartners or something I think he voted based on what number you are in the playerlist so it wouldn't be like he 'forgot' his buddies as scum unless they're all numbered towards the top.
Or maybe I'm misunderstanding where you think the scum motive is here altogether.-
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It isn't strong but I dislike 25 as it's basically pure commentary while calling the nine roll weird. I'm wondering why if he thought it was weird he wanted an opinion from mini who was already calling you scum felt like a filler question.CloudKicker wrote:@Culted what is there to read into
Speaking of which I found it sorta town how mini didn't latch onto that despite pushing you; my impression of newer scum players is that they'll try and throw whatever dirt they can possibly find in jars that they're already filling if ya know what I mean.-
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Okay yea I think you're tunneling - can just tell by how you're immediately dismissing any other reads that happen to be in the same post with a townread on mini.In post 63, CloudKicker wrote:Theres way more scum content from mini who scumtold in my face for 2 pages str8 than a single somewhat fillery post from jin culted
When you come into the game and call something 'weird' but want to see someone's response first that adds nothing. It's how scum post; make no waves while looking like you're making them.
And do you not see where the slight disconnect in mindset is that I'm sensing; ask a question you already acknowledged there isn't really an answer to without hearing what your mindset was first.
Like I said not a lock read but don't misrep me here. ; )-
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That's fair, 99 is pretty bad as well like you always see scum trying to push people while simultaneously impressing how they should be reading someone else.In post 157, MiniDeathStar wrote:His questions felt pointless, and that vote on Kairal was super bad.-
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Why?Io wrote:I don't really agree with the SAJ wagon in general after hosting a game with him, he mostly just feels like a fairly easy mislynch to push.
So I need to be off on a fundamental level for people to acknowledge my existence.In post 172, Flubbernugget wrote:It sounds like you're obtusely encouraging jin to flail over the thread in this post
With current site meta your best bet really is to ignore scum reads on you unless there's something off on a really fundamental level
Cold world.
I'm torn more after thinking about it because I could have done better to make it a two way street but I mostly just wanted some interaction with him because his initial posts did ping me and some kind of reaction outside of a handwave would have been great. Like if someone doesn't understand your thought process on why you did something it's literally making the game harder for people like me who have a strong thirst for clarification.
Do you think the continuation of the mindset jin has shown from early game, where he stayed very neutral with his limited engagement up until now with posts like 165 and 177 where he shows about the same interest level (about zero) with having a conversation about the game isn't a valid concern at this point?
Because it's less aboutmyconcerns with him now and more about how there's no attempt at all to figure anything out, not just me, when there isn't anything a player can think to ask someone. There's no curiosity.-
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Yea with relooking at 99 you don't seem to be pushing cloud.In post 179, massive wrote: Can you quote 99 and, specifically, what is exemplary of your point above?
Can I ask your motivation behind post 99 then and what your purpose was of discrediting cloud's townslip beforehand?
And also clarify what you meant by 'stick up for' kairal? Cuz in my mind kairal's trajectory on cloud the first few pages looks pretty transparent, calls out something he thinks is a slip, argues it until the realization that they're probably wrong kicks in and they move on.
Like, why do you think cloud should be taking issue with that?
A vote doesn't need a paragraph of word vomit beneath it to create pressure.In post 188, Aj The Epic wrote:
And he'd be completely correct in not seeing any pressure, as there wasn't any.Flubbernugget wrote:In post 153, culted wrote:Psst, guys, jin doesn't want to address the pressure on him until there's an 'actual wagon'.
Who's down to figure out how many votes jin thinks a wagon is?
It sounded more to me like he didn't see any pressure, or at the very least, didn't want us to think he saw pressure.
What are your scumreads, AJ?-
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Who's cubic?In post 220, CloudKicker wrote:So far i kinda townread massive, swan and cubic, massive/cubic seems like tvt to me-
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VOTE: Newman
I think 278 comes from scum a good amount of the time.
He's too fixated on the cloud push, I think it's fair to say that trying to hammer home your own townness can be scummy in some environments, but he's not really trying to wrangle with anyone in particular about it. Mostly looks like he's just trying to convince cloud that he's scum and not really anyone else.
Ya know, stay justified, stay unquestioned, out of the limelight.
Specifically the "someone tell me why they're town" is scummy at the end, doesn't feel like someone searching for answers but someone looking like they are.-
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Nice mental gymnastics.In post 367, Io wrote:
I didn't say I was town reading him.In post 300, culted wrote:What's town about jin?
The votes on him were just seemingly out of nowhere and he's just commonly mislynched. I guess you could have seen that as town reading since you can't mislynch scum, but I was saying he's just an easy wagon to push for scum and he hadn't really been posting scummy material.-
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Yea basically this.In post 380, Aj The Epic wrote:And 'hungry/happy' is actually 'hellooo' for HelloNewman....
His post 79 is fine, calling CK out for congratulating himself on a townslip is all well and good. The only issue is HelloNewman never actually interacts with anyone outside of CK and tunnels a bit that he's scum long after most of us have him as town. I don't mind contradictory viewpoints, but with an unpopular view comes a burden of proof, and I don't think Newman attempts that at all in his post. His reasoning CK is scum doesn't change at all (propped himself up on a townslip) even though he challenges CK multiple times through different wordings for the same thing. As I've said, I feel CK's play there was anti-town (aka looking at himself instead of others) but still NAI. Newman should've been tasked at building a case to actually make something happen rather than just stating he didn't like CK. At that point in time, nothing was happening with CK as a wagon so he either needed to drop it and refocus or force a real reason behind it.
So that's what I've got on Newman for the 4 posts so far.
I'm fuzzy on this though.In post 379, Aj The Epic wrote:Wait, Elhabe2 got replaced, Kairal is still here. Kai is still the one I view as basic conf town tho.-
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Mini and flubber argument looks to be fueled by a playstyle disagreement and personality clash more than anything and they're both actually making okay points at the same time while not caring very much how their pushes come off to everyone else. Think this is Tvt.
@Io
I realize a lot of people called you out on this but was there anything in particular from kairal's post on aj you resonated with that made you develop a scumread there?
@Kairal
When did your scumread on newman develop specifically?
In post 440, -Grey- wrote:Io is climbing in my scumreads.
Probably a scum reaction.In post 441, Io wrote:k
Meh, I was kinda iffy on massive earlier from some stuff on cloud that looked like cogdis (like I still find it strange how you can discredit someone saying they townslipped in one post and then tell them people taking issue with the slip isn't a reason to townread them in the next.) Like, he brushed it off as a handslap which eh? Kinda bad but the thought process behind those posts made more sense when he explained his townread later on and I'm not gonna act like I've always kept my reads easily traceable regardless of alignment.In post 447, massive wrote:MDS: Specifically can you quote my "bad logic" that I've "doubled down on"?
But THIS shit is typical scumflail and massive's been playing since 03 he should know that nothing productive is gonna come from arguments like this.
In post 453, massive wrote:My concern is not for whether you and CK are the same alignment, MDS, nor for whether the mod was correct in replacing CK for his actions. My concern is for the amount of time and effort you put into getting people to NOT LOOK AT IT, to ignore it, to claim it's NAI, and THAT is what makes me say "the lady doth protest too much." Which is, in all honesty, what "protest" MEANS. And how, of course, me "doubling down" has no actual link to factual in-thread posts. You tried. You failed.
Kinda torn though because these gut decently real.In post 493, massive wrote:I just don't see how MDS is still running this town.
I'm sad that nobody wanted to vote this with me.In post 508, Secret Agent Jin wrote:Well its blatantly obvious to me who scum is, ill give you a hint, its flubber. He doesnt take much interest in the game until he feels he can strike at an opportune time and argue his way into getting a player lynched. He also, like Massive, doesnt really explain much. He also is just pointing fingers at MDS and pushing the points she is making aside. Its sort of like when you argue with your parents and they say "That doesnt matter, listen to me, i am the parent" he is just deflecting what she says with minimal effort.
What about it was suspect?In post 509, Secret Agent Jin wrote:I was typing when he posted his last few posts that defend himself a little more, it all looks very suspect to me still but not vote warranting.
Scumpost.In post 544, HellloooNewman wrote:scummyness-
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@modAn actual votecount instead of just saying "VC" would be great. : )
Rather a newman lynch > massive at the moment. With massive he's got a track record of bonking heads with mds so the benefit of the doubt that he's just tunneled and omgusing is there and despite how bad the push is as a whole I can kinda see the where he's coming from on the 'protest too much' stuff if I squint.
And on the other hand, like grey said, newmans mds vote is just pure opportunism.
My other preferences are jin and io; more enthusiastic about jin. Also kinda don't think these two are scum together.
Wouldn't end the day without content from IAMI.-
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Wanted to know if there was anything in particular that stood out from kairals analysis that you might've interpreted differently or your mind gave its own spin to in other words, which gave you more benefit of the doubt than what other people asked you about which is why I asked.In post 601, Io wrote:which Culted also said that other people asked so I don't see why Culted would have felt the need to talk about it.-
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I really can't.In post 620, massive wrote:I'm not seeing Newman (you can probably guess why)-
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Right. But I see what you were getting at!In post 640, I Am Innocent wrote:crap, u said jin and io can't be scum together, my bad-
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Even if you can't appreciate the distinction between you guys in that regard, newman looks to be laying down here.In post 650, massive wrote:The main argument about Newman stems from his re-entry and return to the topic of Cloudkicker being force-replaced. Since I agree with the read on this, it's hard for me to look at Newman's re-entry as non-genuine. Since Grey's entire case on me was that I was "caught" following his "bad logic," and I believe that bad logic, I have to believe Newman believes that bad logic.
And I'm unconvinced by Grey's case.-
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For example.
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Fair point but I don't recall you having flub as town prior to this post?In post 656, Dierfire wrote:Speaking of Secret Agent Jin, I'm noting a concern here that he sometimes appears to be subtly encouraging conflicts between players whom I read as Town. In 508 there is no vote and no explanation of why Flubbernugget is incorrect, but rather he seems content to let MiniDeathStar do the lifting.-
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And the above is why this is a good fallback lynch. Newman has exclusively scumposted this game. Io holds onto a townread there because lolaggressivetown.
Newman plays linebacker IRL regardless of alignment if you get what I'm saying.
Take into account the pushes not just the act of pushing.
Could be white knighting.
But I'm also thinking maybe they're just scum together. Because newmans Io vote was quite literally his first mention of her this game and I can see him being aware of all the scum he's dripping in and wanting us to double take on running her up.
Regardless,
VOTE: Io-
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You can ask why.Kairal wrote:Incidentally this is a perfect example of why blank voting is anti-town. Now we have 3 players doing it. We have no idea why. There's nothing we can point to and say 'your reasoning here totally contradicts your other post'. If any of these three votes are from scum or scum motivated we have absolutely 0 tools to do anything about it.-
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It was a busy time for me and I didn't expect a hammer that soon cut me some slack!In post 966, Aj The Epic wrote:Culted almost didn't post yesterday-
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What was believable about his claim?In post 974, MiniDeathStar wrote:Kairal, culted, IamI and massive claimed they didn't believe the claim.
Again. Notice a pattern?-
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I didn't. If you're a role and someone declares intent and you don't claim you're either vt or scum silly!In post 891, I Am Innocent wrote:@culted, why did you hammer Io before giving her a chance to claim?
I haven't hated his content when he does post, though. And this is gonna sound weird but he's the only one who saw what I was trying to do during mini and cloud's early argument.In post 892, I Am Innocent wrote:Need more from Dierfire. So far two votes, Cloudkicker/Shadows slot (who I read town) and Io. 21 posts between him and his predecessor.
Was my subtle attempting at sidelining what I thought was tvt pretty obvious and something scum pick up on? Unbiased opinion would help.
There's certainly value to holding back reasoning that you're not accounting for, though! You don't want to let scum know why you're scumreading them, at least not right away. You also may want to see if other town are picking up what you're picking up. : )In post 895, Kairal wrote:Yes I suppose I can ask why. Given that you know I'm going to do so why not just save us all time? Can everyone who blankvoted recently or in future please do not and instead explain your vote.
I don't like the first line.In post 895, Kairal wrote:Alright I can come back to massive later. I was about to lynch Cloud yesterday when he got replaced out and Shadow has basically slipped under the radar. I read through Io's ISO and either I missed it or she never really made a push on IamI - why are Shadow and Mini suddenly pointing fingers there?
VOTE: Shadow
The last line seems like a throwaway question.
I understand why their suspicion strikes you as sudden. But why is sudden interesting in this particular instance, kai?
In post 898, Secret Agent Jin wrote:I am neither scum or scum. I am Jin, master townie. Anyways, if i had a gun to my head and i had to lay down a vote i would vote massive from going off of yesterday but i was wrong about Newman and IO, so maybe i am not 100% right all the time. About these votes on me, i dont seem to see a case, am i just missing it?I'd have voted him for that post too!
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Mini's 900
Calls jin lynchbait like 5 times and then tosses shade on him for 'copying her reads' in the same post.
One that doesn't make sense and is hedgy as all get out.
Two you basically saw'd flubber for voting jin just because jin has a lynchbait rep.
Terrible look considering that this was when momentum started to shift pretty strongly against jin; feels like trying for towncred on a mislynch but not wanting to kill the traction at the same time.-
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Or maybe not try for towncred (depending on what kind of player scum!mini is) because that post isn't gonna lookthatgood on a townflip as much as other posts would have.
But using jin as leverage while still opening the idea up for others to see him hang is more like it and is actually kinda worse now that I'm thinking about it.-
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VOTE: ShadowIn post 902, Shadow_step wrote:Reaction test.
I've developed no reads in this games by interacting with other players.
I thought town was going in the correct direction so I just sheeped my town reads basically, the Hello flip just baffled me. Even the way the claimed I couldn't believe it at all. It seemed like it was a last ditch attempt at drawing a CC.
Been pretty crap by my own standards, so I wanted to see how he reacts and how other do to it.-
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The second half of the saj runup was whimsical and if I'd have been around I probably would have embarrassed myself. : 3
massive kinda takes the runup into a more serious zone by being the first person to really try and make a case (at least that day) and gives some pretty OKAY reasons like despite the buzzwords I could follow the thought process on jin seeming more hesitant with voting in certain contexts.
Then good old grey.
And then kairal.-
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Okay so wait.In post 956, Kairal wrote:culted likewise has been on Jin from very early. Grey's vote is the only one that looks opportunistic. However he's obviously town. In short everyone on this wagon is either confirmed town or has been pushing this for a while.
Who was confirmed town on the wagon?
What does people pushing jin for a while have to do with jin's alignment?-
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Everything about it. And the point isn't that anyone would have lynched newman or not.In post 1001, MiniDeathStar wrote:Benefit of the doubt? I don't know of a town that would lynch a claimed cop on day 1 without substantial evidence. What made it a "pretty blatant fakeclaim"?
I sorta feel like if you had any compelling reason to think newman's claim was more likely to come from town (or shit, a compelling reason to think newman looked town at all would have sufficed) then saying that it was interesting for the particular people who didn't believe the claim would make more sense. But if you don't have a wavelength for that then I'm forced to assume you were noticing things stick out not because they didn't make sense to you but because they were things that stuck out.-
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Oh cool lots of stuff happened!
Had a feeling massive was town. Claim makes sense but I thought it was more of that thing where you tunnel on someone for days to no avail and then you get the weird realization of 'holy fuck if this person was town wouldn't scum want to get in on this' kinda paranoia thing - BUT THEN I THOUGHT - I could have just been being superbad because actually looking at mini in detail you'll find she wasn't all that town.
I also find it awfully scum indicative that kairal blatantly ignored my questions I asked them right after my last catchup! Then proceeded to finally 'take a closer look at my iso' and create a scumread on me out of nadda.
VOTE: Kairal-
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Like.In post 1076, Kairal wrote:In these posts Culted calls out massive but immediately backtracks. Also there are a lot of bad reads going around but here we see that Culted wants to lynch Io, Jin and Newman. All now confirmed to be town. Actually a large amount of Culted's Iso is tunneling on Jin.
Was there anything about my thought processes on massive that you took issue with?
Can you talk about why I wasn't justified in having those reads?
This just feels like scum bravado to me especially the line "all now confirmed to be town" is laying it on thick. feels less like someone trying to empathize and more like trying make this sound better than it actually is.-
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Fair to say that there wasn't much loud resistance but does that mean we don't analyze the runup? No.In post 1048, Aj The Epic wrote:Honestly Grey was really into the Jin lynch. The issue is, no one in the town (outside Jin) really was interested in stopping it. Dierfire in 656 and 935 showed a logical progression that should've had him believing jin as scum (It was conditional on Newman being town, which was found after N1). Everyone voting Jin (other than arguably Kairal) was scumreading Jin. MDS... didn't seem interested in stopping it, and I'm inclined to believe hers was more a scumread on jin than a townread. Shadow doesn't mention Jin once outside a random quote ("how do you know me" essentially). Which really leaves me, who was townreading Jin but didn't really do anything to prevent it. The lynch was going to happen, it's more a question of the hammer time.
I was thinking earlier that because there wasn't much resistance and saj was scummy as fuck that it was probably pretty towndriven because there was some lolz about it and peeps like mini trying to maximize but I don't think there's a world where mini-slot is scum here now... so shadow-slot is feeling like the scum off. Maybe dier too.
Bottomline though, scummiest vote on is kai's.-
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You just quoted a post where I explicitly asked for your thoughts on my reasons for thinking Dierfire might be town. LOLIn post 1093, I Am Innocent wrote:No official top 3 for the day I found, but subtle attacks on kairal and mini, vote to Shadow. No mention of {AJ, Flubber, or Dierfire}
AJ is obvtown.
Flubber's frustration on page 42 is pretty real.-
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The townread on me is making me waffle. : 3In post 1116, Naomi-Tan wrote:Page 5; time for a break.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l7shCvDXUU
Thoughts so far;
I have a Green read off of culted There actions don't fall in line with what I'd concider red moviation and they seem to be thinking and working well off others.
HellloooNewman
I Am Innocent
Aj The Epic
Are getting free pass's for just generally not getting any interest from me what so ever. (AKA Null reads)
Massive should also be a null read but I didn't like there reaction to my last post. seemed a bit weird//not what I remember but then again I think thats just me so you can sit in the cataogry im gonna call the void which lines in a space between null and redish.
I didn't really like flubbs reaction to CK's faked slips but I think if they are as smart as I think they are they also might of called it and not cared as I would of if I was playing and not in this slot.
Dierfire I didn't like there entrance post and given it was 5 pages in thats kinda lurky.
Kairal Probs my biggest red read on page 5. Apart from voting every green read I've had bar one. They always seem kinda weak. I also didn't like them leaving the gray train that they had committed too earlier.
Black Void I have your slot listed as possible red. Though I didn't write down why and off the top of my head don't remember must been a post your precessor did. but I can find that in a bit once I'm done and might get some more supporting or conflicting evidence for you being red. sorry for the vagueness but I lost the note XD
FOS: Kairal
I'm not gonna vote until I have read up and know if my reads are right. but as a reaction to the first 5 pages. this is what I got. stay tunned for more later after I wish to continue
Why just fos kai and not vote him?-
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Hmm.In post 1234, Naomi-Tan wrote:I am confirm as of right now I have no intent of pushing you and if your content remains consistent post page 22 Im pretty certain that won't change. You may been one of my later reads but I been Green reading you for at least 12 pages. (though I don't have my notes the precise time)
What did you see that changed from your initial impressions up to page 12?-
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culted Mafia Scum
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- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1045
- Joined: December 4, 2016
Frustration and apathy are more of a cause and effect thing. He's frustrated that his pushes are being tuned out and it makes perfect sense for flubber to become apathetic as town because his top scumread is now suddenly chainsawing him about his read on mini (another scumread) and not many people batted an eye.
Unless you're saying that emotions are ever stagnant and can't change even in the moment.-
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culted Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1045
- Joined: December 4, 2016
Why do you think kairal is town?In post 1186, BlackVoid wrote:Finished the first seven pages. Kairal and Flubbernugget are townreads. Naomi's slot and AJ are scumreads. I also don't buy massive's claim. Even night cop and odd night cop together are too convenient and I'm not sure why everyone else is. It's far more overpowered than a regular cop because that would be two additional people that the scum need to kill other than the confirmed innocents. I also don't think odd-night cop, even-night cop, and JK all exist in the game.
Today is the day before lylo (in the event we mislynch). So, we should mass-claim. I also think having confirmed town decide the order is optimal strategy not to mention more efficient. I think we should go in the order of Naomi -> AJ -> Dierfire/Culted/IAI -> Kairal -> Flubbernugget.
If massive was scum do you not think IAMI's cop thingy at day start would make him hesitate to fakeclaim?
Who has all claimed so far and is this order we decided to go with?-
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culted Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1045
- Joined: December 4, 2016
There's of course the tinfoil scenario where IAMI and massive are scum together and one soft-claimed to test the waters so that massive could claim freely after a certain point and then clear mini (begs the question of why mini though because that still seems like a viable lynch without the clear). Possible they thought that there was more convenient things to push.
Point being it seems high-risk low-reward and that massive-scum doesn't make that claim if IamI is town.
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