Chaos has an older account. VOTE: Chaos
Why choose Naomi instead of Chaos?
I don't like this. Making several people claim only narrows down the pool for scum to find the PRs.In post 92, MisaTange wrote:We can do several claims in one day if necessary
Wait, what happened to Misa? you were voting him befoe.In post 207, ThinkBig wrote:Sure.In post 206, MortFeld wrote:TB can I see a preliminary readslist? I can explain why I want one from you specifically but I'd rather see it first.
Town Reads
1. MortFeld
2. Lil Uzi Vert
3. Naomi-Tan
Scum Reads
1. Copper223
2. HS (I don't like how he asked Drone a question when he hasn't confirmed/posted yet. If he flips scum, it is possible that Drone is his buddy).
On an unrelated note, ChaosOmega and Toto need to get in the game. Mod, can you please prod them?
HS does confuse names a lot in my experienceIn post 279, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Scum slip? I don't see how you could have mistaken anyone for Drone at the time.In post 193, Human Sequencer wrote:Okay. I'm not suspicious of you at the moment, just to clarify.
I really wouldn't mind creeps at L-1 to be honest. I don't think a omgushammer is likely and even in worst case scenario I don't think he's going to be of much help after today, even if he does flip green.
Drone, do you agree?
TB can you answer my post regarding your read/vote progression? How does that make sense?In post 373, ThinkBig wrote:Spoiler: The Catch Up Wall
UNVOTE: Copper
Hey all,I am on V/LA until after the election on Tuesday. The majority of my posts are coming from my iPhone. Therefore, my posts may not be able to be as substantive as I'd normally like it to be.
I don't understand what you mean with your list, how does that relate to what copper said?In post 329, MisaTange wrote:I feel like Copper bragging about their win percentage is LAMIST. Even if you win as town 80% of the time, what if this game is the 20% of the time you lose? This doesn't take in account confounding variables, i.e.:
- Scummy town
- Towns gambitting
- People unfamiliar their meta (either as town or scum)
- Scum with good logic
So on and so forth...
I don't like the rationale for this vote. You want toIn post 423, Creeps20 wrote:VOTE: Think big
Pressure is a town's best friend. So shall we create it? Yup
I could say the same thing about you. I, like you, am also having trouble following the discussion.In post 433, Naomi-Tan wrote:Toto - I feel they also might be red, I feel there green game has more than they put in so far.
I could say the same thing about you. I, like you, am also having trouble following the discussion.In post 433, Naomi-Tan wrote:Toto - I feel they also might be red, I feel there green game has more than they put in so far.
I think understand what you mean here. However:In post 432, copper223 wrote:I think TC wouldn't be too happy with the comparison.
TC is a logical player that follows his win-con, I don't think Creeps can be analyzed the same way...
I've been trying to get an answer of him for a while now. The read/vote progression is quite weird. I find it odd he came back to 'respond to questions' but somehow missed this.In post 539, ChaosOmega wrote:In 115, he says Misa is scummy before LUV posted that. And my reasoning for voting Misa was laying there, too. He could have stolen it, but it doesn't feel that way to me.In post 533, MortFeld wrote:The big 'ol ThinkBig Compendium:
In 112 he votes Misa because Creeps is at L-2. When pressed for why he voted Misa (Creeps being at L-2 is not a reason to vote Misa) he gave in 180 a reason LUV had already given, and another reason someone else had given, though I forgot who.
In 203 he jumps on the Copper wagon, giving no explanation at the time. Finally when he explains in 373 he says he voted Copper because Copper twisted the lynchbait discussion. The entirety of the lynchbait discussion took place after TB voted Copper. He also unvotes Copper in this post without an explanation.
I asked TB for a reads list because I was starting to wonder if he even had reads at all, or was just voting where other people seemed to. The list he gave in 207 was very odd because former scumreads were suddenly missing, with no explanation in the post. It also left out a majority of the game's players, assumedly null reads? In 209 he explains his shift on Creeps but never answers Toto's question in 249 about Misa.
These inconsistencies are the main part of my case at least. Whether or not he's game avoiding can't be proven so I'd rather focus on the posts he has made?
There was also the lynchbait discussion that you were a part of right before his vote from 200-202. Again, this leads to the point of, did he just steal the reasoning? Maybe. I'm more likely to believe he stole it here, since he pairs it with a weird unvote without explanation as you mention. If this was all his thought process, he should have reasoning why he unvotes after considering the information. Could be that he saw TwoFace was the only person left with him and he didn't like how the wagon looked.
The point on Misa being excluded from the list in 207 is a good point. You want to respond to that now, ThinkBig?
We are not lynching anyone until we have all replacements.In post 552, TwoFace wrote:I wouldn't object to a misa lynch. Much better than a TB lynch. Not as good as a copper or HS lynch though.
Huh? you seem to be role fishing again here.In post 734, Human Sequencer wrote:Toto and Creeps are either masons or are so in synchronization with each other that they know precisely how to fuck with me.
Yeah, you missed that after going 2x through Copper's ISO.In post 312, copper223 wrote:... yeah that was my other reason, when he said he was so nervous he did not want to post he reminded me of Gideon (forIn post 306, Creeps20 wrote:I would Claim but that is useless for me as my role really dosen't really scream 'town'HS, Toto and Chaos).
I don't think HS + TF can be scum partners at this point given how badly HS wanted to kick TwoFace out of the game. If that was acting then I would be very impressed. I think this was more of an excuse to jump on the lynch of a townie later and avoid consequences.In post 739, MortFeld wrote: There are no town motivations here. There are few scum motivations either, but there are some. I think you might have given yourself away withthough it would be dumb for TF's scum buddy to say anything like that.In post 631, Human Sequencer wrote: I understand this can be flipped into red trying to protect a fellow red, but that isn't the case. I just really want to avoid lynching pretty obvious town at all costs.
I actually agree with this analysis.In post 739, MortFeld wrote: I don't think Naomi is scum, I believe that she really is affected by TwoFace's toxicity and that a policy lynch could be !green motivated. Drone started the policy lynch, which could be scum motivated but I think scum would be more likely to jump on the wagon rather than to start it. So if TF is town, that leaves Chaos and Wobbu as possible->likely scum. But I think HS is more likely, that whole Creeps thing is so weird.
That and also the fact that they were reading 2face as town but still decided to vote them.In post 742, MortFeld wrote:Toto why did you vote HS? Just bc of what you perceived as role fishing?
and also the fact they may have lied about not knowing about the soft claim. I just don't see how they missed that post (Gideon was an important player in our previous game).In post 743, Toto wrote:That and also the fact that they were reading 2face as town but still decided to vote them.In post 742, MortFeld wrote:Toto why did you vote HS? Just bc of what you perceived as role fishing?
As town you don't lynch other people you think are townies. That's just stupid and gives scum all kind of excuses to get away with.In post 746, DeathByWobbuffet wrote:I voted TF because even though I believe they're probably town, I think lynching them is worth it just because even if they do end up flipping town, we don't lose much because they're not contributing to town by giving actual reasoning anyway.
Creeps soft claimed.In post 761, MortFeld wrote:I don't see any motivation for the half push onto Creeps other than HS and TF both being scum - do you?
In post 764, DeathByWobbuffet wrote:That was my reason. Make of it what you will. I'm not going to go and make up another reason just to make myself look less scummy. I've already unlynched them after being told that my reasoning was bad (I agree that it wasn't all that solid).
This reads very honest to me by the way.In post 767, DeathByWobbuffet wrote:I've played a lot of chat mafia on a different site.In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8492984#p8492984]post 766[/url], Toto wrote:Wobbuffet what previous experience you have playing mafia?
@Kamelot ^^^In post 775, Toto wrote:To be frank your slot has been the primary scum case so far, and then decided to drop out, you might want to start there.
Yes, this is why I'm worried that you lied about knowing that creeps had soft-claimed. Only scum has motivation to lie in this case. Perhaps you thought not many people had noticed.In post 807, Human Sequencer wrote:I think it's silly to imply that I suggested this as scum knowing that Creeps has softclaimed to try and nab the role.
...or scum!HS did know about the claim but pretended not to know.In post 807, Human Sequencer wrote:So the only options left are HS is Town and either knew Creeps' softclaim or didn't know Creeps' softclaim, or HS is scum and didn't know Creeps' softclaim.
I don't see the scum motivation here unless you want to create post flip associations. Can you explain your reads?In post 818, Human Sequencer wrote:If I'm lynched today let it be known that I very strongly townread TF, strongly townread Uzi and Mort and that my main suspects at this time are ThinkBig and Misa's slot.
You mean the VT claim? I think scum!HS would have claimed a PR in this situation if he really just wanted to stay alive. The way they presented the reads and the claim look more like they are actually trying to help town.In post 861, Naomi-Tan wrote:shouldn't you find the easy claim more suspicious? could you expand a bit more here?In post 860, Toto wrote:The VT claim and the reads look genuine to me. I'm having second thoughts. UNVOTE: HS
When you put it that way it does sound bad, but this post made me reconsider.In post 868, Drone wrote:Why on earth would a VT ROLEFISH!? You guys kidding!?
In post 840, ChaosOmega wrote:Yeah, I was in the first game with HS. I was scum and thought they were doctor with how they were looking for PRs. I get role-fishing is bad and makes you look scummy, but I don't think it's a scumtell in this case.
This is just absurd.In post 871, Drone wrote:And Toto is HS's scumbuddy.
The tone above was that of a concerned townie being protective of our PRs. I think the rolefishing going on here is different:In post 198, Human Sequencer wrote: I also think it's potentially a very bad thing people are viewing Copper as so towny so consistently in general. There are two possibilities, Copper is scum and now hard to lynch, or Copper is town and now has a target on his back.It could be disastrous if he carried a power role. I don't think he does, though.
In post 649, Human Sequencer wrote:Guys, I think TwoFace is claiming vig. He's constantly asking to last until day 2.
In post 694, Human Sequencer wrote:Funny this comes on the heel of TwoFace's best post all game. I could've used that pages ago.
But holy shit having him as a vig would be RIP.
The tone of these three posts sound more like HS is actually threatened by the town PRs and wants to get rid of them. Here is one more thing which I think is very bad:In post 734, Human Sequencer wrote:Toto and Creeps are either masons or are so in synchronization with each other that they know precisely how to fuck with me.
In post 198, Human Sequencer wrote: I also think it's potentially a very bad thing people are viewing Copper as so towny so consistently in general. There are two possibilities, Copper is scum and now hard to lynch, or Copper is town and now has a target on his back.It could be disastrous if he carried a power role. I don't think he does, though.
Contrast the two posts. In first post HS is very aware that putting a target on PRs is a bad thing. In the second one they say they did not know how that was bad for town.In post 839, Human Sequencer wrote:I wasn't aware at the time, because in my first game both roles were hardclaimed D1 (and town went on to win!), but I'll take that knowledge (role fishing=bad for town) and put it in my databanks for next game.
This is a good summaryThinkBig wrote:Reading now. Didn't realize how long this thread got before I left.
I am still trying to learn the game and not quite sure what to do.
1) Start by addressing the case against you.In post 779, MortFeld wrote:Welcome Road! Your slot has been fairly scummy but nothing extremely egregious. 596 is HS' summary of events, I don't think it's entirely accurate but you can judge for yourself after reading.
In order of who I find most scummy to least:
HS has been PR hunting, voted someone they explicitly townread, made a weird push during a policy lynch wagon to policy lynch a player who had softclaimed and who nobody was talking about, ISO me and Toto's recent posts for this
Wobbu's slot got in a dumb argument with me and TwoFace that lasted a long time and accomplished little, during the TF policy lynch wagon Wobbu voted TF, saying the reason was 'TF isn't contributing so it's not a huge loss even if they're town'
ThinkBig has had allegations of game avoiding, sheeps reasoning, sheeps votes, voted Copper and then gave a bad reason that (arguably) came chronologically after TB's vote, posted a reads list that was inconsistent with his vote
Chaos has taken a backseat where in the past as town he's lead discussion (though he was V/LA for large part of this game), hopped on the TF policy lynch wagon very quickly
Your slot has not been game solving, has made some posts that did not seem genuine, replaced out when pressure mounted again
TwoFace has been aggressive but not in a gamesolvey way, got town mired in a semantic argument with Wobbu's slot, is distracting to the point where 5 people tried to policy lynch him, HS's push onto Creeps during the TF policy lynch might be scum trying to protect scum
That should cover it. Creeps has made a large number of weird scumposts but they are so bad that I personally am treating them as NAI for now. Also, pressuring Creeps tends to do nothing unless you vote him, then he scumreads you.
Well to me even discussing whether Copper is a PR or not is a form of role-fishing. The point is that here is that this is much more subtle and more defensive of town.In post 944, Human Sequencer wrote:Toto, you've clearly learned a whole lot since our last game, whereas I've gotten overconfident and sloppy. Either that or the shift in your player meta indicates scum, but I'm apprehensive about that because you're reading somewhat town to me.
Addressing post 922.
In this post I wasn't rolefishing. I was moreso thinking about how if everybody townreads Copper, he's essentially confirmed town, which is bad to the mafia. Therefore, that makes him a good target to kill (confirmed townies are bad for mafia), and if he by chance happened to be a PR, then we lose something very valuable. I don't think it proves knowledge that's applicable to this game.
This made me lol.In post 998, Naomi-Tan wrote:this statement is also WIFOM. your welcome.
Wobbu is town.In post 993, MortFeld wrote:To expand on the fair vote comment - I agree that scum might play the way I am playing, inadvertently. Perhaps my reads list would help you believe I do have an idea of how the game is progressing?
I'm working with:
{Creeps, Toto, Drone, LUV, TF}
{Chaos, Naomi, Nero}
{Road, TB}
{Wobbu, HS}
Pedit: Yes... Road asking for a tl;dr was the reason I posted the reads list. You said that the Misa slot was AFK at the time I posted that, which is not true. I didn't say that asking for the list was my reason for SRing the Misa slot - those reasons were explained in the post.
I had a slight town read on copper. I understand why some people read Copper as scum, I think it's his personality. I had a scum read on him a large part of my newbie, but he ended up as town.Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Why?In post 1014, Toto wrote: Wobbu is town.
In post 771, Toto wrote:In post 764, DeathByWobbuffet wrote:That was my reason. Make of it what you will. I'm not going to go and make up another reason just to make myself look less scummy. I've already unlynched them after being told that my reasoning was bad (I agree that it wasn't all that solid).This reads very honest to me by the way.In post 767, DeathByWobbuffet wrote:I've played a lot of chat mafia on a different site.In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8492984#p8492984]post 766[/url], Toto wrote:Wobbuffet what previous experience you have playing mafia?
I had a slight town read on copper. I understand why some people read Copper as scum, I think it's his personality. I had a scum read on him a large part of my newbie, but he ended up as town.Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Why?In post 1014, Toto wrote: Wobbu is town.
In post 771, Toto wrote:In post 764, DeathByWobbuffet wrote:That was my reason. Make of it what you will. I'm not going to go and make up another reason just to make myself look less scummy. I've already unlynched them after being told that my reasoning was bad (I agree that it wasn't all that solid).This reads very honest to me by the way.In post 767, DeathByWobbuffet wrote:I've played a lot of chat mafia on a different site.In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8492984#p8492984]post 766[/url], Toto wrote:Wobbuffet what previous experience you have playing mafia?
1) He said his reasoning was bad =~ I don't have a lot of experience.In post 1021, MortFeld wrote:Re: Wobbu being Green bc he didn't play the newbie card
Seems NAI at best? As in, by Toto's argument, Wobbu did not respond in a way that was a Red! tell, but the reason for voting TF in the first place did not come from a reasonable Green! motivation. Seems to cancel each other out at best, though I do not think that his response was particularly Green! either. NAI response + Red! motivated vote = Red.
I guess I still don't understand the case. I will read again tonight.In post 1030, TwoFace wrote:But we're talking about wobbuffet who's been caught lying multiple times. So how do you ignore those and say he's been honest?In post 1028, TwoFace wrote:Scum aren't going to lie if they don't have to. At least they shouldn't.In post 1026, Toto wrote:He kept honest.
This is a good point.In post 1038, TwoFace wrote:In post 629, DeathByWobbuffet wrote:I do get the feeling that they're a townie who's made the mistake of not justifying their scumreads and being overly defensive.Can we go back to this for a second. Earlier you told chaos you were town reading me for being overdefsive. NowIn post 806, DeathByWobbuffet wrote:I used to TR TwoFace, but I'm not so sure anymore. They seem to be getting overly defensive whenever anyone makes any kind of accusation about them.
You're scum reading me for the same thing? How does that work?
Are you being nice to me for realz or are you just trying to gain my trust?In post 1048, Human Sequencer wrote:Toto in particular has been fucking incredible at this. I'm sorry I was so hard on you last game bro.
Too many wagons force claims which only help mafia. Who are the PRs is the only info mafia doesn't have. We might as well massclaim. This is why I don't like either.In post 1255, MortFeld wrote:@Toto - explain why so many wagons are bad for town? If I didn't push on RK we wouldn't have gotten 1. RK's awful response and 2. HS to react to RK. HS push has been much of the game's content. Result of the Creeps push is a lot of the reason I read him/Shadow Green.
So far we are good.In post 1258, MortFeld wrote:But the wagons so far have only forced one claim, and it's not a PR and that slot is probably Red. Too many wagons are bad if they force claims - if they just help sort alignment, many wagons are good, no?
I missed the '' in 'obvtown'.In post 1267, Road Kamelot wrote:No it hasntIn post 1263, Toto wrote:HS obvtown posting has ramped down after they are no longer in danger.
Still p sure this is scum tbh.
In fact as either alignment activity goes up and
calling the posting 'obvtown posting' while simultaneously throwing shade on HS rly rly sucks
You say this yet disagree that the rate of towny looking posting has gone down. If they post towny looking stuff they are obvtown, if they post scummy looking stuff they are town mistakes. What makes you so sure HS is town?In post 1275, Road Kamelot wrote:I sort of thought the same. what i got from that post was a lot of honesty. HS really believes this about my play. what i do think is that any self-aware scum (and imo if hs is scum he has to be at least a little self aware) wouldnt spend so long defending me only to vote me. it looks really terrible.
From my point of view it looks suspicious because, you know, I'm pushing your lynch and you suddenly become friendly. That's way different on how you would have reacted in the previous game.In post 1293, Human Sequencer wrote:No I didn't. I wasn't dismissive of you this game at all. It was only when I realized your work on my wagon that I realized how much better you'd become.
It's not suspicious because what's the scum motivation?
Yes you have, you have become more or less bloodlusty depending on number of people on your wagon.In post 1293, Human Sequencer wrote:My playstyle hasn't changed at all. That's just a lie.