Mini 1811 [Game Over]

[Robbnva]

Not even sure I'll be catching up. I'm not making any pushes day 1. I'll skim some ISOs though

[Robbnva]

Check my game history. I never vote until I'm ready for the day to end.

Just going off memory I'm pretty sure this is not a true statement.

[Robbnva]

I'm not going to defend myself any more either, so you can either fuck off or mislynch.

This is the scum claim. First of all this level of "anger" is usually a matter of pent up frustration, it doesn't just come out in one post, especially since Trivium isn't THAT much more under pressure than he was in his last couple posts and he wasn't particularly angry there. It's very early for the "mislynch me" ultimatum, which indicates that we're probably on the right track here.

You can't be this bad at the game evil. That isn't anywhere close to a scum claim.

P.edit it means exactly what it says

[Robbnva]

So on the surface it looks like evil never really had an original reasons for voting my slot. He basically agrees with somebody else. The rest of evil's iso is kind of meh. I think evil is trying to buddy bcade personally but I'll keep an eye on it.

P.edit - I'll be reading ISOs. I won't be reading all 31 pages in a row.

Day 1 - no I'm not pushing anyone. See my sig for more details on that.

[Robbnva]

Meh xy started good. His push on evil looked good. He kind of went off the rails though after my predecessor voted his top town read. Later puts evil to null. Evil should probably be further down the list imo but again that's just my opinion.

[Robbnva]

Oh before I forget

unvote

[Robbnva]

I am glad you feel that way, because I am ready to vote Trivium based on his logic defying me and some really shady seeming actions.

I can't see where you point out any of these things. Would you please do that? On the surface it looks like you just blindly sheep jaereed.

[Robbnva]

omg this is such obvious bs man its page 4 why are you explaining so much

Explaining too much is somehow scummy?

Oh wait tomato avatar.

Nvm but that's a bad post if you are town just saying.

I only have one question for you. Being completely honest here. How serious on a scale of 1-10 was your push on tivium?

[Robbnva]

So vote me

I'm looking at the reasons why people are voting my slot to see who has good reasons and who doesn't. That's called scum hunting. I'm town so I need to see if anyone on my wagon looks opportunistic. Tam/ep both look like that on the surface. Both sheeping other people's opinions without any original ones themselves.

[Robbnva]

hyper-defensive really isn't a thing btw, but tbh Defensive isn't really a thing either.

[Robbnva]

The people who need more pressure imo are people who seem to be blending into the background during the time my slot was under the most pressure. Reduced activity is a red flag when there is a lot of stuff going on. Especially if the lack of activity seemed out of place.

[Robbnva]

sonrio <3

Question: Has anyone other than Trivium claimed he was an idiot, or stupid, or any of this? I don't recall it anywhere but in your defensive posts, and repeatedly there, like you are trying the 'woe is me- everyone attacks me' card. I think maybe if you defended yourself, or attempted to, instead of just constantly saying 'why bother? noone will believe me and they'll all think i'm stupid' type things, you might gain more ground (if you do have a valid point). The way you jump around with your triple posts and this whole routine just makes me feel more confident in my vote.

Check my meta. I'm pissed. Everyone looks scummy to me and everyone looks town, I have no idea what I'm doing and I desperately want everybody else to know that I do, so that my opinion matters at all when at this point I'm actually convinced that it actually doesn't. I think I need a break from this game.

that's unfortunate because I was just back to leaning town on you -.-

meh

VOTE: nahdia

What about that post would make you change your read on him? There is nothing AI in that post.

[Robbnva]

Ok which ones.

[Robbnva]

And explain what about it as AI

[Robbnva]

Btw the 4 posts right before that one scream town confusion/frustration. I think even Stevie wonder can see that.

[Robbnva]

Calling "the team" if anything is town minded. Scum doesn't typically want to close their options. They want to keep them
As open as possible.

My over compensation? I'm not over compensating. I'm playing how I play regardless of alignment. I'm always active. I'm always omgus, I call out bad posts.

I mean what I've seen from my predecessor he's probably the most obv town player next to the IC. Obviously I'm biased but I genuinely don't see anything with scum intent in his posts. I also don't see anyone accusing him of any. The stuff people are using are things that actually point to town rather than scum. The scum are the people trying to appear town without doing much. That's why I'm surprised Pacman doesn't have more votes. Tam wagon is probably good but I want him to answer my question

[Robbnva]

Robb- Saying that being too defensive, or even defensive, is not a thing, is BS. It most certainly is

Haven't read the rest of your post yet but no it isnt BS. Having been called defensive more than I can count I speak from experience. Town and scum are both accused of being defensive for defending themselves. It's not AI, it's part of the game and anyone who uses that as a negative is a really shitty player.

[Robbnva]

Wow, in a nutshell, no Robb, I posted a few times EXACTLY why I voted.

Ok and I asked you to please point them out to me. Quotes would be best, Links are ok too, post numbers would just be lazy but also acceptable

[Robbnva]

I then tried really hard to help him out, thinking maybe he was a townie who was misunderstood, as I have been in that spot before and it's frustrating.

So why is his stubbornness a scum tell? Why can't it just be the way he plays, or like me a personality trait.

I'm one of the most stubborn people on this site. People try to make me change my mind and I absolutely refuse. for me that's actually more of a town tell (except for me, it's non AI for me) because again scum want to keep their options open. They don't want to alienate themselves. They want to at least give off the appearance they are "helping" and "being useful"

[Robbnva]

You seem to give people more credit as logical beings than I do, in general. This mentality on my part probably stems in part from my only experience being in java-based mafia (where no one has the time to really think things throuhg) but rather than thinking it showed a town mindset, my thought in the last post was that "calling the team" and being sure of yourself is a lot easier when you aren't actually looking for a specific team in a bunch of players you know nothing about.

I just try to process in my mind what makes sense. I see townies more often than not call scum teams. Do scum do it also? Possible I guess.
People keep telling me to look at scum motivation. What would the scum motivation for locking himself into certain reads and refusing to change them?

[Robbnva]

Also, what did I do that suddenly I am catching votes? I missed something clearly. I would like to point out that while I am being blamed for not giving reasons for my vote, NOT A SINGLE VOTER OF ME IN THIS GAME HAS GIVEN A REASON. They have all just either said Vote...like JaeReed and murder, or said I say all the right things, which is literally the opposite of saying the wrong things. I have asked that these people elaborate but when getting no response from anyone about it, just blew it off, because it didn't seem valid to me.

Can anyone give me an actual reason why I'm suspicious? Again, it would be nice to have something to actu

Now you are in the same situation my predecessor was in. He thought nobody had reasons for him yet you wanted him to defend himself iirc.

Did you go and look at who is voting you yet and see why? I doubt nobody gave a reason

[Robbnva]

Please don't sub out.

[Robbnva]

And sorry. I'm supposed to work on being mean. It's a bad habit of mine.

[Robbnva]

I am glad you feel that way, because I am ready to vote Trivium based on his logic defying me and some really shady seeming actions.

I can't see where you point out any of these things. Would you please do that? On the surface it looks like you just blindly sheep jaereed.

@tam - I just looked over your I so again and before this post you don't really point out anything. Your vote implies you have good reason for it so I want to see the things you are accusing him of since you don't do it in the game thread.

[Robbnva]

Imp. Why did you vote Ira to begin with?

[Robbnva]

I'm not pretending to be anything. I completely disagree with you on that though.

I also don't have an issue with your avatar. It just triggered a memory for me.

[Robbnva]

I'm not pretending to be anything. I completely disagree with you on that though.

I also don't have an issue with your avatar. It just triggered a memory for me.

ugh why are you tearing apart all the townread i built on trivium

its like i want to switch back to you for some reason

Dude If me disagreeing with you makes you think I'm scum, you better just vote me now cause that opinion was really bad. But I'm not really sure why your read would change on somebody just cause they don't share your opinions. That's kind of a narrow minded thought process and I really should know cause I used to be the king of narrow minded thought processes.

[Robbnva]

Explaining too much almost never comes from scum imo. Sure it happens but the more transparent your posts are the more you open yourself up to having your posts analyzed. If you say something that looks like BS your more likely going to be called on it.

I've seen scum be verbal (toolendo or however you say his name comes to mind in a game that recently finished) but that's atypical from my experiences. And if scum players want to talk more, please do so. Over time it will be much easier to catch them.

[Robbnva]

What do you think about iraonvp?

No opinion. Haven't really ISOd him yet

[Robbnva]

I'm sheeping my vote onto whoever besides myself gets the most votes so why do I need to read every page? It would take me about 4 days to read these pages anyway and if I do that I miss current conversations and get further and further behind. My way is much more efficient

[Robbnva]

Ok so ira seems fine until 124. That's a bad thought process and vote.

The old me would probably think he was scum. But while I don't necessarily agree with him, I don't really see much scum intent with his posts. He looks like he believes what he is saying so he's probably town. Misguided but town.

P.edit - so because i disagree with your opinion that makes me scummy? Weird I thought that just made me human. Your opinion is fundamentally wrong imo but if that's what you honestly believe so be it.

I still don't see how me disagreeing with your opinion makes me scummy but go ahead and vote me. Show everyone [snip].

Have to edit myself. Being nice is hard.

[Robbnva]

Oh I misread Your post. It's not about difference of opinions but that is what it looks like to me. Anyway I don't really care so moving on.

[Robbnva]

Well seeing your lynch preference id suggest you come up with some better names cause I don't like your list at all. Tam maybe is scum. Ira seriously don't think is scum and I'm definitely not.

Pacman/tam/Xk are much better options.

[Robbnva]

Well that was unnecessary

[Robbnva]

think this is a town-aligned post.

Bacde is seemingly just repeating to lynch Tam even when he isn't literally doing that and I find it suspicious.

I disagree.

1. I quoted a post where he said some negative things about my slot and asked him to point them out to me and he didn't. Instead he said posted a few times why he voted me. His first mention of trivium is post 306 but it's not really a read on him, rather accountant/Ira stuff. 2nd time he mentions him is post 552 where he says he's a good guy (I'm assuming this was sarcasm or something. Don't really understand the point of the post actually). Third time he mentions him is in the post he votes him where he directly quotes the IC who says he wants trivium lynched and says some shit I don't understand which is why I asked him for examples. (Like where did trivium defy tam? How did he defy him? And why is that scummy? What position is tam in to make requests of trivium? Also what "shady seeming actions" did he perceive trivium do?

2. At the time of that post he had 3 votes. His reaction imo seems over the top. He acts like he is at l-2 or something. Why make a huge post like that instead of coming in and directly asking the people voting him why they are?

Also this post

Do I get a prize?

Ummm yes, you do! VOTE: Trivium Seriously man, I tried so hard to help you figure out what you were doing wrong and correct it, in the hopes that you were innocent and just really misunderstood.

I don't play around with the wishy washy 'you're great, you're horrible' back and forth players. I find it real scummy. Your opinion of people should not sway like trees in the wind. It can change, of course, but not so radically. You are really grasping for anything.. I'm pretty sure about you now.

I tried.

Reaks of him knowing my slot is town.

[Robbnva]

My bad. I suck with pronouns. Hard to see on my phone.

[Robbnva]

I didn't think 1 was incomprehensible:(

Also something I'm trying to work on. Sometimes your biggest scum read isn't everyone else's so you have to shift your vote. People don't seem interested in voting you off. I certainly am not and since you don't have a ton of votes others don't seem to want to either. I've never seen somebody make a big stink about not being voted before lol.

So given you have issues with their votes. Does this mean you think they are scum together? If
Yes... For real? If no, which one is scummier and why since they both are doing the same thing according to you?

P.edit - damn lots of posts while I was typing lol. This is at iron

[Robbnva]

Why are pac and xy town?

[Robbnva]

Son, try this - http://forum.mafiascum.net/ucp.php?i=prefs&mode=post

Make sure show signatures are turned on

[Robbnva]

Or this - http://forum.mafiascum.net/ucp.php?i=prefs&mode=view

[Robbnva]

xy hasn't posted that much but I don't see anything scummy in what he posted

pac's defense of himself was good and I don't see anything scummy in what he posted either

to be perfectly honest I feel like xy and pac are peripherial figures at best in this game

Right and it's those peripheral players that are more likely to turn up scum. Blending in the shadows and
What not. Being able to defend yourself well
Doesn't = town. I'm able to defend myself when I'm scum

[Robbnva]

Yes, I already said they were scum-aligned together and I worked this out a while ago... Things that I see now are just more evidence to support my conclusion, making me more sure that I'm right about MURDERCAT and Accountant here.

So scum would basically do the exact same thing?

Don't think either are scum but definitely not both of them. At best one is mirroring the other
No chance scum are mirroring each other

[Robbnva]

xy hasn't posted that much but I don't see anything scummy in what he posted

pac's defense of himself was good and I don't see anything scummy in what he posted either

to be perfectly honest I feel like xy and pac are peripherial figures at best in this game

Right and it's those peripheral players that are more likely to turn up scum. Blending in the shadows and
What not. Being able to defend yourself well
Doesn't = town. I'm able to defend myself when I'm scum

I mean that he effectievly negated the major arguments raised against him earlier

I don't think pac and xy are blending in the shadows, by peripheral I mean they aren't the sort of players that people listen to(sorry guys, no offense) and who can single handedly push a lynch forward just with their presence

I don't agree. I think pac fits the profile more since the other is a replacement but yeah neither have impressed me with their content. Pac didn't even have an original reason to vote my slot and then popped in to fan the flames and leave again.

[Robbnva]

Check my game history. I never vote until I'm ready for the day to end.

vote: Trivium

I'd prefer not to lynch until IAI, ira and xykfu say some more.

I know people don't have him on their radar but...

[Robbnva]

Explain to me why you think scum would make up something like that, exactly. What's the incentive?

Hey I just point out the suspicious activity. I can't really explain why scum would post that, but I can't really explain why town would either. This is part of the reason I'm not pushing anything day 1 anymore. I have trouble telling the difference between bad town doing scummy stuff and scum doing scummy stuff.

[Robbnva]

Scumtell? Maybe not. Nobody would lynch him for that but it factors into his credibility. He's not a trustworthy person so it makes it harder to trust him cause if he'd lie about something meaningless like that, what else would he lie about?

To be fair I have a huge issue with people lying in general.

He's donr other things I find suspicious but nobody else does so I'll drop it.

[Robbnva]

No I have 3/4 people I think are scum. With 3 being most likely the number of scum that's not too many.

[Robbnva]

I find his vote on my slot to have been a sheep vote. It appeared he was also trying to keep Bacade on his good side. His other contributions have been kind of meh and he just kept trying to fan the trivium flame but not really pointing to things that were scummy. He tried to imply trivium's anger was somehow scummy which is laughable. At best anger is town, at worst its non AI. It also seems he's blending into the background some. Not really directly interacting with people.

[Robbnva]

Well we already know there are three scum total. I remember you stating 5 different names. Which of bacde, me, Evil, Murdercat, and accountant did you decide was not scummy?

Bacade, you, and murder were never in my list of possible scum. If you got that impression I'm sorry.

Pac/tam/xy are my top 3 atm.

[Robbnva]

Scumtell? Maybe not. Nobody would lynch him for that but it factors into his credibility. He's not a trustworthy person so it makes it harder to trust him cause if he'd lie about something meaningless like that, what else would he lie about?

hahahahaha no this logic is bad

Hey never claimed to have awesome logic. That's why people hate playing with me. What I find scummy isn't what others find scummy.

[Robbnva]

Like do you really think pac is a compulsive liar who decided to randomly lie about his meta and will continue on his lying rampage unless someone stops him

Either he's scum lying to make hinself look a certain way and slipped up or he's town and misphrased ir we misunderstood his meaning.

Tbh I have no idea why he would lie. But the moment I saw that post I knew it wasn't true. Regardless of alignment why would anyone lie about it? I honestly don't know. Do you?

I'm always going to scum read liars. Can't help it. Town has very few legitimate reason to lie and this isn't one of them.

[Robbnva]

My definition of a lie he did but it's irrelevant at this point. Moving on

[Robbnva]

My definition of a lie he did but it's irrelevant at this point. Moving on

You can't just go around having your own definition of words. That's not how definitions work.

Well I use the definition in the dictionary.

"an intentionally false statement."

[Robbnva]

I agree with poetic. It was scummy sounding.

[Robbnva]

I have seriously considered the pacman lynch, but I just can't get past how genuine post 228 feels.

you have got to be joking

[Robbnva]

that post wasn't even that good and could easily be faked

[Robbnva]

But some notes which 1. Can be faked 2. Could still be genuine and come from scum shouldn't change your mind on a person

The fact it does is highly suspicious.

[Robbnva]

Could still be genuine and come from scum

What?

[Robbnva]

But some notes which 1. Can be faked 2. Could still be genuine and come from scum shouldn't change your mind on a person

The fact it does is highly suspicious.

Like I said, anything can be faked. I'm not going to assume that something is fake, just because it's possible. The simplest answer is that it is indeed genuine. He doesn't seem to have faked any of his other posts.

Besides, I never really changed my mind on him. I'd already said that I was town reading him. I was just tempted to support his lynch. Which I'm surprised that THAT isn't what you find "highly suspicious."

No you had him as null. You also were tossing the idea out to possibly lynch him and we're trying to get other people's thoughts. To go from both of those things to not wanting to lynch him at all for that post alone is highly suspicious. I'll ignore the fact you misremembered your read on him.

[Robbnva]

I'd prefer to wait for a claim as well

Well yeah that's why I put her @ L-1 since that's usually the indicator for someone to claim.

not really. claims should only come when a person is at L-1 and someone is asking for a claim with an intent to hammer. I have seen people at L-1 and not have to claim and still save themselves.

personally I am waiting for tam to answer my question. I think we should at least wait to let them respond

[Robbnva]

But some notes which 1. Can be faked 2. Could still be genuine and come from scum shouldn't change your mind on a person

The fact it does is highly suspicious.

Like I said, anything can be faked. I'm not going to assume that something is fake, just because it's possible. The simplest answer is that it is indeed genuine. He doesn't seem to have faked any of his other posts.

Besides, I never really changed my mind on him. I'd already said that I was town reading him. I was just tempted to support his lynch. Which I'm surprised that THAT isn't what you find "highly suspicious."

No you had him as null. You also were tossing the idea out to possibly lynch him and we're trying to get other people's thoughts. To go from both of those things to not wanting to lynch him at all for that post alone is highly suspicious. I'll ignore the fact you misremembered your read on him.

yes but I read the word scum in your post as town for some reason. Also one scummy post isn't enough for me to determine whether he's most likely to be scum compared to other people;.......

No no. I'm not saying that you believe that.

I'm actually leaning town on him, in fact.

I'm just putting forth a risk vs reward scenario for us to discuss.

The game is starting to become stagnant, so I'm trying to manufacture some thoughts and discussion from people.

I'll ignore the fact that you are skimming.

Well I guess I'm confused. When did your null read on him change and why? Cause 10 posts prior you were suggesting lynching him and you certainly wouldn't be suggesting to lynch a town read

[Robbnva]

I find his vote on my slot to have been a sheep vote. It appeared he was also trying to keep Bacade on his good side. His other contributions have been kind of meh and he just kept trying to fan the trivium flame but not really pointing to things that were scummy. He tried to imply trivium's anger was somehow scummy which is laughable. At best anger is town, at worst its non AI. It also seems he's blending into the background some. Not really directly interacting with people.

[Robbnva]

I'm kinda in a bad mood atm so gonna take a break for a while so it doesn't affect my games. Having way too many issues with this site right now

I'll be back in a day or so

[Robbnva]

The pacman thing shows that read isn't real, his posting makes no sense around it. Robb come back and sheep me here.

Sorry. I'm comteplating replacing out actually. No sheeping right now

[Robbnva]

So tam didn't answer my question yet...

I'm ok with a tam lynch

[Robbnva]

@murder - I'm with you if xy gets votes but see no reason to move from tam

[Robbnva]

Since I'm a replacement I figured it would be in poor taste to replace out so I'll play but I'm not really into it atm.

@tam. I literally stopped reading after the part I quoted. If I snipped your post, it was unintentional

[Robbnva]

Pax/xy/tam my original list is looking p. Good

[Robbnva]

Like can anyone tell me who Sonrio wants to lynch?

He hasn't said ANYTHING so far this game.

Pax/xy/tam my original list is looking p. Good

Would lynch pac and tam. do not want xy lynch AT ALL.

Man I really wish you would have provided some good reasons behind your objection
But noted

[Robbnva]

Not sure why I quoted the first quote.

[Robbnva]

vote: xf

[Robbnva]

i'd be ok with pac also

[Robbnva]

Please don't use the black bars. I can't read that stuff on my phone. Thanks

[Robbnva]

Why should I have to do extra work when there is another type P spoiler available?

[Robbnva]

i mean with that attitude im surprised you play mafia

Huh?

[Robbnva]

But you aren't locked into your vote. Not voting imo is antitown

[Robbnva]

im not as impatient as you all apparently

you didn't seem to be as reserved with your vote in the newbie game. Why are you reserved here?

[Robbnva]

Rob, you prefer my lynch over pacman's?

i'm fine with either really

[Robbnva]

yes you can

[Robbnva]

any reason why you decided to play differently?

[Robbnva]

so who is your top 3 scum reads and why.

thanks

[Robbnva]

So your only scum read just happens to be tam. Who is the one who's most likely getting lynched unless something else happens and you don't have any other minor scum reads but you have town reads?

...

[Robbnva]

guys im tired lay off me

No