Mini 1543--Natirasha's On Parole!(Game Over)

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: Selkies

[zMuffinMan]

katsuki is town, foutrouble is town, mafiassk is maybe town, selkies is scum

[zMuffinMan]

cabd maybe town

[zMuffinMan]

you're thinking about things in a one-dimensional manner

katsuki-scum sees a rule that punishes good scum play, in a game with daytalk, and you think katsuki-scum expresses her dislike for a rule that punishes scum in the game thread rather than in private?

sure, it's possible i guess, if katsuki is dumb, but the more likely scenario is katsuki town who genuinely thinks the rule is dumb (or if you're looking at it from a completely objective pov, it's at least something katsuki would do as either alignment so it's a null point)

move on

[zMuffinMan]

The main point here is that the critique is more likely to occur to scum than town

so you baselessly assert

[zMuffinMan]

scum care more about rules that hurt them than town

again, baseless assertion

but let's suppose this is true

do you agree that scum care about their image? or at least are more conscious of what they're posting? if they are, then posting something that scum are more likely to care about seems kinda contradictory to this notion

and no, this isn't WIFOM. this is common sense

[zMuffinMan]

But holy shit this is a mess of wifom and the degree to which you're defending Katsuki is a bit disturbing.

*shrug* it seems to be a major point of contention, with people asking questions about it, so i wouldn't exactly call it a defense

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin's popped in, dropped a few scum reads, refused to give any reasoning when prompted multiple times, and posted a bunch of crap. "His activity" is underwhelming because he's presumably in-thread and refusing to interact with his scumreads or push anything. "His content" is shit.

i only "dropped" one scum read
why do you think i'm more likely to refuse to give reasoning as scum?
and my activity is what my activity is. i'm reading other games, not sitting here f5ing this thread.

[zMuffinMan]

goodfather probs town

i know why you're saying this but it's not a difficult thing to fake

[zMuffinMan]

also you've avoided me for about 4 pages despite being inthread. what's up with that, scared?

[zMuffinMan]

I love the hypocrisy here. It's so great.

do you think he's scum? or what was the point of this post?

[zMuffinMan]

I would ask what hypocrisy, except that there was none at all.

i'm pretty sure the implication is that you're being hypocritical by not explaining while asking someone else for an explanation (which doesn't make sense anyway, but *shrug*)

[zMuffinMan]

it would only

actually

be hypocritical if he refused to answer when asked about it, but since you haven't asked about it, there's no actual hypocrisy here.

and you're not answering the question, do you think he's scum?

[zMuffinMan]

And actually no. Lets say for instance person A steals an apple. Person B asks person A why he stole the apple, while stealing the apple himself. Idk that seems hypocritical, how bout you

................ it would only be hypocritical if person B criticised person A for stealing the apple. this is very basic stuff and i'm not going to waste any more time talking about it.

I was hoping for a wagon to develop, but muffin ruined it by posting exactly what it was that was not scummy about my statement

a wagon did kinda develop (there were like 4 votes at the time i think?), i probably would have left it a little longer but i felt like interjecting.

[zMuffinMan]

nm it was only 3 votes

too bad i stole your thunder, i guess

[zMuffinMan]

also

I did answer that question. Notice the word "or" there.

no? where is the "or"?

[zMuffinMan]

oh you mean in my post? does this mean you think katsuki is town?

[zMuffinMan]

why are you buddying me so hard, bert?

and my D1 reads were shit in 1523. they *happened* to improve a little later in the game.

[zMuffinMan]

It does not mean that I think katsuki is town

I have not expressed or implied what I think of katsuki's alignment anywhere.

Is there a reason that you are trying to suggest that I have?

hahaha, you are scum, aren't you?

[zMuffinMan]

Are you intentionally tweaking my scum-zmuffin model?

maybe your model sucks

Can anyone confirm that this is how muffin man plays?

i've seen this muffin guy play before, and i can tell you this is how he normally plays. i think he's town here.

Selkies seems like town

why?

Shares my irritation in unexplained votes

uh huh. you realise they're only irritated the votes on their slot, they don't seem to care about unexplained votes from anyone else (like cabd's vote on aronis, or fourtrouble's vote on ross, or any of the other votes that weren't explained)

[zMuffinMan]

or containing fluff or nonsense

link me to this magical game you speak of where bert's posts could be described as not containing fluff or nonsense

[zMuffinMan]

At least one of which that comes from town because scum wouldn't pile on us like this so openly

i'm guessing this isn't the ffery head. if it is, i'm happy with my vote.

[zMuffinMan]

still scum

you apparently think i'm scum, though, so i don't know why you care how i feel about it

[zMuffinMan]

It may be a while before we come to a consensus read on you.

what happened to me tweaking your model of scum-me then?

[zMuffinMan]

I kinda thought it was an intentional tweak

no? i don't even know what your model of scum-me is

Overall I feel like you're playing much more aggressively here than you did in our last couple of games where you were scum

even if i were being aggressive (and i don't think anything i've done here is particularly aggressive so i dunno what you're referring to), this seems like a strange reason to change your mind

[zMuffinMan]

but I am not scumreading you

so who are you scum reading, then?

[zMuffinMan]

bert is scum

he hasn't done anything completely antitown, he hasn't self-voted and he hasn't asked to be lynched

[zMuffinMan]

This sounds anti-town. Sorry, had to say it

elaborate, and why would you be sorry about saying it if you legitimately think it's anti-town?

[zMuffinMan]

that's not elaborating on why you think it's antitown

[zMuffinMan]

"You think I'm scum, so I don't care what you think"

that is the opposite of what i said, though

[zMuffinMan]

zMuffin, can you direct me to a couple of your games as mafia?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=32587
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=30226
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=30730 (as Rail Tracer)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=31988

and

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37251

[zMuffinMan]

oh shit, ignore that last one, please

[zMuffinMan]

i don't see why, either

[zMuffinMan]

So, Ross/Muffin/Katsuki scum-team? That makes the most sense, at this point.

it would not surprise me in the least if all 3 of those names are town

the funny part is i don't even think you're scum, you're just really lost

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin's nonproductive posts worry me...I'm seriously considering voting him if he doesn't step up soon.

you should follow your heart then because i have no intention of "stepping it up" any time soon

[zMuffinMan]

Aww it would be cool if ye tried though, since I be making a conscious effort to stay engaged and not fall behind forever in this game!

i am observing, and thinking, and trying to figure things out. i am just not showing all my working in thread.

[zMuffinMan]

because

also phone posting and im unco so i generally wait til im at a pc to write anything lengthy

[zMuffinMan]

my outstanding policy: anyone who uses the term beetlejuice should be ignored for the rest of the game

[zMuffinMan]

cabd

what is your read on selkies?

[zMuffinMan]

how town am i

[zMuffinMan]

wait that doesn't count

you're never going to call me town

[zMuffinMan]

if i go into detail about what my read on selkies is, what are you going to do with it? do you think they're town or not?

there are a couple reasons i'm playing the way i'm playing right now. i'll explain when i think it needs to be explained.

[zMuffinMan]

if that is what you want to do, do it

[zMuffinMan]

ill be home in like an hour, then i might talk about the read

[zMuffinMan]

so anyway,

when i initially voted selkies, way back when on p4, it was because i really didn't like any of their initial posts - joking around and what not is fine but i didn't really like the way they were doing it and there was way too much noise for my liking. nothing special here, just a gut ping. a couple pages later and nothing about their posting was looking town at all, so i decided i'd outright call them scum and see how they reacted. and i really didn't like how either head of the hydra reacted.

at first i thought the orcinus head of the hydra was joking around with an OMGUS vote on me, but when he later tried to justify the vote i was a little confused. and the justification was quite shit, all things considered - their vote on me was for having "shit content" or something along those lines, when outside of the justification for their vote on me, they'd literally done no scum hunting, and contributed nothing of value to the thread. plus what was ironic about the justification is that part of their justification for voting me seemed to be that i was not providing a reason for my vote; but look at any of the votes they'd made in the game at that point (including the vote on me) and try to find a single reason for any of them. like, you can ISO them and look at how their play progressed up until the point orcinus finally justified the vote on me, and if you don't see blatant hypocrisy there, i don't know what to say. plus, really, unless you're playing your very first game or you have an outdated playstyle (like idiotking), you really shouldn't find naked votes scummy, and you really shouldn't be surprised by them. but still, orcinus persisted in this, and so i decided to sit back and observe how they interacted with me when i was refusing to give an explanation for my vote. i'm not sure if orcinus actually realised the irony in the way he was justifying his vote on me or if it went over his head, but yeah. i dunno what was going on with this, and it didn't look town at all. it was a really, really weak justification for a push on me.

ffery's reaction was kinda meh, too; i know she has this idea that i only think she's scum when i'm scum, and she kind of hinted at that when i voted her, which was odd, because i don't think she's vain enough to actually believe i couldn't legitimately have a scum read on her at that point as town, or that she'd done anything that looked remotely town at that point. she later added to this, saying i was fitting some model of my scum game that she has but i dunno exactly what this was referring to and she never elaborated on what she meant by this. it came after me calling something they wrote a scum post, sooooooo i dunno.

outside of their reaction to the vote on me, there's a few things here and there that i didn't really like. there are certain questions that come from the orcinus head that i think are designed to look like he's scum hunting (or something, i'm not sure, really), but the questions he asks or the statements he makes are all awful in one way or another. for example, #262 (which i talked a little about earlier in the thread) where he calls something katsuki said hypocritical when it's really not hypocritical at all <- he should be able to understand it's not hypocritical, but he doesn't, also didn't really like any of his reactions to my questioning him about this post and what his read on katsuki actually was. another example is #356, where orcinus quotes ross and calls it OMGUS, without actually understanding ross's point or why it isn't OMGUS; and i really have no idea what this sort of thing is meant to achieve, other than noise. does he think ross is scummy for the OMGUS? what's the fucking point of posts like this?

i'm not a fan of any of the scum hunting they've done so far. a lot of it feels really empty, questions for the sake of asking questions, but doing nothing with the answers. i have no idea what they're doing with their reads at the moment, and i'm not seeing any sort of progression towards something, if that makes sense? like they're probing you about aronis, asking questions about goodfather, etc, but then... nothing.

also i'm not sure what to make of ffery unvoting me. there are two possible reasons i can think of. one i'm not going to talk about right now. the other is that ffery actually believes she spotted something in my play that she thinks is more likely to come from me as town than me as scum. but she was very vague on what that something is (something to do with me probing people for opinions, when i really wasn't doing anything of the sort at the time). i dunno. didn't really make a lot of sense at the time, and i woulda thought ffery would be trying to engage me and find out why i'm still voting their slot or something. orcinus didn't seem to like ffery's unvote, but he's not doing anything about it, soooooo i dunno what's going on with their read on me now.

so yeah, this isn't exactly a case, just where i'm at with them at the moment and how my read on them has progressed. this is about... half of my thought processes regarding them, actually. there's some stuff i've left out, but i don't want to talk about it right now, and i probably won't any time soon. i don't actually know what i'm supposed to look for in ffery's scum game because i've never seen it, but this isn't making me think of her town game at all, and everything orcinus posts just makes me want to lynch them with fire.

i'm also not putting this much effort into any other read you want me to explain. this is a special exception, just for you, because i'm such a nice guy and all

[zMuffinMan]

We got several solid townreads off of early game

who?

us moving the game out of RVS phase and creating a shitton of content with the SSK interaction

lol

I was here voting people, creating wagons and creating content

lol

no i find them fucking annoying and anti-town when they aren't used to create pressure and force interaction.

lol

If you wanted to observe how we interacted with you, you should've interacted with us

i don't have to interact with you to observe how you interact with me

[zMuffinMan]

hmm, some of my issues with orcinus could simply be because he is a VI

[zMuffinMan]

like, this

Ross' vote on FT seemed to be born out of "well imma vote FT for...well hang on im going to make up a reason for this" because 347 applies to other people far better than it applies to FT

it looks like orcinus just has reading comprehension issues

so

i think some of my issues could just be because of his learning difficulties rather than his alignment

and he genuinely seems oblivious to the fact that he wasn't producing any useful content early on

i need to think

[zMuffinMan]

i feel like i've been really mean to you, orcinus. i apologise. rather than criticise you for your nonsensical (lack of) contributions to the thread, i should have been patting you on the head and giving you words of encouragement

"well done, orcinus, you're doing a good job! keep it up!"

[zMuffinMan]

I thought that you were intentionally tweaking something that I had picked up about our recent games where you were scum. And you figured out what I was talking about, since you mentioned it in your wall.

so when you mentioned a model of scum-me you were referring entirely to me thinking you're scum?

also it looks like the things you "liked" are things you know i do as scum as well, so i don't really get why that would make you unsure about me

[zMuffinMan]

i'm more like 5 people

[zMuffinMan]

Cabd after we lynch scum-aronis can we lynch the everliving fuck out of IdiotKing

no

but remind me to come back to this at a later stage and talk about what i think this means if any of you, aronis or idiotking ever flip scum

[zMuffinMan]

So, after we lynch Aronis and he flips scum?

i don't currently think that is going to happen, but yes, if he ever flips scum, i will tell you what i think this means.

[zMuffinMan]

I'm not going to tell you all the components of my scum-you or town-you model.

i don't really care if you do or don't, but you made reference to me playing to some model of scum-me you have, and i want to know if you were referring solely to my read on you. because that's what it sounded like you were saying when you responded to my wall.

[zMuffinMan]

That's not what I was saying. I don't know how you got that from what I wrote

um...

I thought that you were intentionally tweaking something that I had picked up about our recent games where you were scum. And you figured out what I was talking about, since you mentioned it in your wall.

It does not mean that I think katsuki is town

I have not expressed or implied what I think of katsuki's alignment anywhere.

Is there a reason that you are trying to suggest that I have?

hahaha, you are scum, aren't you?

Are you intentionally tweaking my scum-zmuffin model?

the only thing i mentioned in the wall about it was how you seem to have this idea that i only scum read you as scum, and when you mentioned me tweaking your scum model it was in reference to that

so am i right in assuming you were referring solely to my read on you?

[zMuffinMan]

because you're saying you have some idea of scum-me, and i think you're referring entirely to my read on you, and i think this is a really shit "model" of scum-me and if that is all you were referring to when you said i was tweaking your model of scum-me then i think you were bullshitting your read here

[zMuffinMan]

with your permission, then

[zMuffinMan]

Yo muffin, what do you think of your company on the selkies wagon?

i think katsuki is probably town
i dunno about kaboom, i don't remember anything he's written
goodfather i dunno, i don't really have any issues with him and some things he's written look townish
and aronis i dunno, i see things that give me minor town vibes, and i think a lot of the "scumminess" in his play has to do with him being a newbie rather than his alignment

[zMuffinMan]

Unvote
Vote: Bert

[zMuffinMan]

this vote confuses me

rule 4:

4. Voting is to be done in either bold text or vote brackets.

i am choosing to use bold tags instead of vote tags.

hopefully this clears up any confusion

[zMuffinMan]

am i town

[zMuffinMan]

if you say no, i'm invoking LAL

[zMuffinMan]

because I do know but that's only because im scum

single faction
probably low power scum team if not considering the possibility of a SK

NICE SLIP

[zMuffinMan]

i think you know what reads you would hold if you were town so it means nothing to me

the bert read is the only one i disagree with atm

[zMuffinMan]

Why do you disagree with Bert???

gut

i haven't been following recent pages. has he done anything that looks town yet?

[zMuffinMan]

Probably not to you because you're a noob and can't read anyone.

maybe

you could take me under your wing and teach me to see what you see, though

[zMuffinMan]

can't teach the dumb new tricks, muffin
sorry

that's ok i wasn't planning to read anything you wrote to me anyway

have you got a read on me, yet? i'm so town even my shit is green. i went to a doctor and he was like, "nah dw about it, you're just really town!"

[zMuffinMan]

may as well mention it now since he's L-1 and intent to hammer etc etc

aronis, idiotking and i are in a neighbourhood (with daytalk obv)

[zMuffinMan]

i'm unsure on aronis, his comments in the neighbourhood so far have been rather brief and lacking in any real information. i dunno how much of that has to do with him being a newbie.

[zMuffinMan]

that was when i didn't realise aronis would be run up today, and i claimed it now in case derp hammer

[zMuffinMan]

You and IK have the same info to build a read from. What is it that you're seeing different from him about Aronis?

IK has a totally different method of scum hunting than i do - i don't have enough to form a proper read and i see minor things that make me think he could be town. nothing strong, though

[zMuffinMan]

@ffery,

and in case it wasn't already obvious i've been trying to monitor (with virtually no success) whether anything i'm saying in the neighbourhood QT is being leaked to people outside the neighbourhood. i had a mild suspicion that you were unvoting me because i was making it very apparent why i thought you were scum in the neighbourhood QT and i thought maybe one of them was leaking what i was saying there to you (such that you knew i could actually write a case on you any time i wanted to but i wasn't doing it in thread). but i'm now thinking that may have just been coincidental timing.

[zMuffinMan]

I am still a bit thrown by his initial post where he seemingly arbitrarily decided a few reads

none of that was arbitrary, all of those were serious, and it didn't have anything to do with the neighbourhood (although i did expand on each of those in the neighbourhood)

also of note, 362 happened because of neighbourhood stuffs. not sure it's all that important to discuss the specifics here, but i came out of it thinking idiotking looked a bit more town

[zMuffinMan]

that is what i was thinking was probably the case and why i was against outing the neighbourhood (IK wanted to out it asap, i thought it would just be a distraction and i didn't want scum knowing about it if it could be helped)

[zMuffinMan]

nothing. me bad at english.

though if we're being realistic i'm not going to bet money on it

[zMuffinMan]

"was thinking" because it is a thought that crossed my mind much earlier in the game, and i haven't thought about it since

[zMuffinMan]

i'm unsure on aronis, his comments in the neighbourhood so far have been rather brief and lacking in any real information. i dunno how much of that has to do with him being a newbie.

You and IK have the same info to build a read from. What is it that you're seeing different from him about Aronis?

IK has a totally different method of scum hunting than i do - i don't have enough to form a proper read and i see minor things that make me think he could be town. nothing strong, though

"minor things" refers partially to neighbourhood QT, and partially to in game. there's like... no direction, no hidden underlying motivation in the way he's approached stuff this game. he seems really lost

[zMuffinMan]

also kinda think his scum buddies would be coaching him hard

Gun to your head?

town, easy target

[zMuffinMan]

probably town; I don't think you could come up with a joke that good as scum.
Killing people brings your heart down, you know?

i haven't killed anyone yet

i think i could come up with something like that as scum

[zMuffinMan]

it's nacho

[zMuffinMan]

Nacho who else are you scumreading?

No one? I'm not even scumreading the guy I'm voting.

why did you have to roll scum, nacho?

[zMuffinMan]

The bravado kinda feels town. Kinda.

Suck it Muffin

why did you have to roll scum? :/

Vote: Nacho

i dunno who you're scum with yet, but you're scum. not selkies, prob not aronis, prob not bert.

[zMuffinMan]

ross isn't scum, neither is aronis (probably - something he said on the previous page made me a bit unsure about this but meh)

[zMuffinMan]

There are my incredibly short reads,

good luck figuring them out

.

this seemed sorta out of place. butttttttttttttt still prob town

[zMuffinMan]

how do i answer the question if i didn't roll scum???

Vote: RossWilliams

not like that

MUffin Goodfather et al need to pick a wagon and go with it.

the nacho wagon

[zMuffinMan]

it's on nacho. i'll move it as i see fit if i need to but i have no strong feelings either way about the two main wagons. i think there's a very, very high chance they are both town.

my vote will remain on scum until i'm forced to move it

[zMuffinMan]

pretend i'm not shit at english and that reads no strong feelings about either of them being scum

[zMuffinMan]

i look really good regardless because i'm me and i'm fucking awesome

[zMuffinMan]

if it comes down to it, i'll prob cull aronis over ross

but they're both town so

[zMuffinMan]

nacho !

[zMuffinMan]

i think this is quite possibly the best and most accurate description of nacho i've ever read

Nacho,
Either a scum who is trying to seem too obv scum to be scum or a townie who is totally useless.

[zMuffinMan]

prodge

i still want to eat nachos i think. maybe reading later today

[zMuffinMan]

omg thinking about lynching nacho makes me hungry

[zMuffinMan]

:/

no

[zMuffinMan]

please?

maybe later

[zMuffinMan]

i think he's calling you muffin. take it as a fucking compliment

[zMuffinMan]

tired. reading after sleep

[zMuffinMan]

Would you just tell us that you're trying to lurk here?

i'm trying to lurk here

[zMuffinMan]

muffin, what did you think of my exchange with Aronis?
specifically the part where he was like "man nacho improved a lot!" and i was like "lol no i didn't" and he was like "yeah, you didn't!!!"

did this happen somewhere? coz i can't see it, or i skipped where it happened

if that did happen, i'd say aronis is lying in the first statement and being truthful in the second. what that means about him i dunno.

[zMuffinMan]

why would you go after Nacho? They are one of the weakest players

iawtp

it's like he sees through you, nacho. he sees through you.

[zMuffinMan]

I think I'll trust Cabd here in the spirit of NatMod.

how do you go from "omg muffin is 100% scum lynch him" to not even mentioning me in any of your posts today?

Also, I'd like to hear from Idiotking and Zmuffin what their current thoughts on Aronis are.

i dunno. i have trouble reading newer players who make completely illogical statements and ask nonsensical questions. i am aware he's upped the activity because he was criticised for his D1 play, but everything he writes makes me cringe and i feel a lot of posts are just posts for the sake of posting

overnight they could have tried prepping you for a strong start today, since you dodged a bullet.

this is similar to what i'm currently thinking about aronis, actually

[zMuffinMan]

nacho, i really think GF's town

can someone unvote as a favour to me because i'm really likeable and a really cool guy?

i need to do some reading and i haven't got around to it yet and likely won't til tomorrow

[zMuffinMan]

MUFFIN MUFFIN MUFFIN THIS EXCHANGE

am i meant to see something there? coz i don't - it's a rather null exchange

[zMuffinMan]

did you delete my post?

abuse of powers

I'm a bastard mod, you know.

[zMuffinMan]

Spoiler:

lots of game relevant content was contained in that post. and now i have to right it again. *sigh*

asd

[zMuffinMan]

nacho i want you to be honest with me

are you scum?

[zMuffinMan]

I actually think if there's scum in the neighborhood, it's probably sneaky Muffin. Especially when I think about how he hasn't really done anything of note other than paint a broad-based case on you (Ffery hydra). He seemed to just say "hey guys, Ross and Aronis wagons are town, so ain't touching unless I gotta at deadline.' Other than that, he has been rather mute. However, what gives me some hesitation is that they are in a neighborhood...HOWEVER, Aronis commented on how the neighborhood has been mostly quiet lately anyway...so................. but my main issue is he did not seem particularly interested in discussing why Ross OR Aronis are town I also feel like Muffin should look into what i'm doing and ask me stuff, you know, if he really wanted to find out what alignment I am. But nooooooooooo.... it would also help if you know Muffin he could form a decent scum read too. DIATRIBE OVER!

i look really town from what you're saying about me

i don't get it

[zMuffinMan]

1. MafiaSSK**

2. Cabd

3. Selkies(fferyllt+orcinus_theoriginal)

4. zMuffinMan

6. notscience King Kenny

7. The Goodfather**

9. Bert Karlos4

11. Aronis**

12. Idiotking*
13. Katsuki*

Vote: MafiaSSK

strikes through town reads? if so why are your reads so awful, nacho?

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin's play here isn't quite like VisCon 1523 past game as town

i'm in lazy mode

i haven't put any work into this game for a while and i don't have many reads that i'm all that confident in

i'm not really interacting with anyone at the moment, soooooooo i don't know why you care about me not interacting with you

maybe i'll start reading stuff tomorrow night when i get home

[zMuffinMan]

you can't use my excuse

only i'm allowed to claim lazy mode

[zMuffinMan]

RossWilliam(7): FourTrouble, notscience, Katsuki, Selkies, Aronis, Bert, Idiotking
Aronis(3): Cabd, MafiaSSK, Nachomamma8

break this down for me

only people off these wagons were ross (flipped town), me (obv obv obv obv obv obv town) and goodfather (looked kinda town in some posts)

[zMuffinMan]

i think when i stop being lazy (i say tomorrow, but i am the king of broken promises, so we'll see i guess) i'll properly sort goodfather then go back and look at the end of D1 and the aronis/ross wagons

coz i still have this icky feeling that aronis was basically talked into upping activity to look town after yesterday and everything he writes makes me want to pl him

[zMuffinMan]

if i were following the game to the extent that i was sorting anyone then maybe you'd have a point? but i'm clearly not soooooooooo. wait til i actually start reading i guess (maybe liiiiiiiiike 16 hours from now when i get homE)

[zMuffinMan]

what did you want to "hear" from me?

[zMuffinMan]

it's not happening for a while. i just got home, i need a shower and food and then i have several pages to read. sooooooooooooo ETA a few hours from now if i don't go back into lazy mode

[zMuffinMan]

though you're free to help me out and do the legwork with your own analysis there

what's your read on goodfather and how obvobvobvobvtown am i

[zMuffinMan]

i feel like people are expecting a lot from me

and are going to be sorely disappointed

[zMuffinMan]

so goodfather looks really town.

where did the scum reads on him come from / for what?

mainly aimed at nacho, but anyone who voted goodfather today can chime in

[zMuffinMan]

also i think there's one scum in aronis/ssk. mainly because this game doesn't make a lot of sense to me if they're both town. or my reads are really wrong somewhere. i dunno

[zMuffinMan]

i want an aronis flip to figure out what's going on with this (and also partially because i wanna pl him)

Spoiler:

Selkies(5): zMuffinman, Katsuki, kabooooomm, The Goodfather, Aronis

Selkies(4): zMuffinman, Katsuki, kabooooomm, The Goodfather
RossWilliam(2): FourTrouble, Aronis
Aronis(4): Cabd, notscience, RossWilliam, Bert

Aronis(5): Cabd, notscience, RossWilliam, Bert, Katsuki

RossWilliam(3): FourTrouble, Aronis, Bert
Aronis(5): Cabd, notscience, Katsuki, IdiotKing, Nachomamma8

RossWilliam(3): FourTrouble, Bert, Selkies
Aronis(6): Cabd, notscience, Katsuki, IdiotKing, Nachomamma8, MafiaSSK

RossWilliam(5): FourTrouble, Bert, Selkies, Nachomamma8, notscience
Aronis(4): Cabd, Katsuki, IdiotKing, MafiaSSK

RossWilliam(4): FourTrouble, Bert, notscience, Katsuki
Aronis(4): Cabd, IdiotKing, MafiaSSK, Nachomamma8

RossWilliam(3): FourTrouble, notscience, Katsuki
Aronis(4): Cabd, IdiotKing, MafiaSSK, Nachomamma8

RossWilliam(7): FourTrouble, notscience, Katsuki, Selkies, Aronis, Bert, Idiotking
Aronis(3): Cabd, MafiaSSK, Nachomamma8

the selkies wagon is another wagon i wanna go back and look at when i can be bothered (lol not happening before tomorrow night)

also have icky feelings about mafiassk lately. he completely dropped his d1 push on me (which he seemed rather confident about), the response to the lurking stuff felt like a massive overreaction and i don't think ssk-town says "it's cool and fair that you wanna vig me" - i think that felt like a "oh shit people are calling me scum for being aggressive, better not react aggressively to that" sorta thing. i dunno

[zMuffinMan]

also still think nacho has a better than average chance of flipping scum

and katsuki still looks town and notscience still looks town and i dunno maybe selkies too. big maybe though

i need to think about this when i'm not super tired

[zMuffinMan]

i believe the percentage is less than this

i don't believe i gave a percentage

LAL

[zMuffinMan]

you've already disappointed me

oh no

letting bert down is the last thing i wanted to do

[zMuffinMan]

give me three names for scum nacho

[zMuffinMan]

I dunno why Muffin thinks you are scum and it boggles the mind that he could be reading obvtown as scum for this long
So he might b scum

if bert is so obvtown then why do all his reads suck?

and if you think i'm scum, why are you voting my neighbour and not me?

[zMuffinMan]

so i can kinda understand why you think bert is town (if it's the :effort: factor? i dunno. the :effort: he's putting in looks shit so i don't really care much for it) but there are quite a few things i don't like about him. first is the way he was approaching the game in the early stages; he

was

buddying me. or at least was bringing up a past game we've played together for no good reason except to mention that my reads were good there. and i don't know why he thinks that's a big deal or that one game is a good measure of anything. but he mentioned it several times and i think that was really odd. the rest of his play at the time felt really manufactured - it felt like he was changing up his recent playstyle in an effort to look town, but everything he was saying looked forced and it felt like he was just going with the flow with his reads; there was nothing controversial, nothing that other people weren't already talking about, etc etc. i really haven't been following the game close enough recently to tell whether this is still the case but the reads list he gave a short while back didn't impress me much (and i thought it was rather odd that he gave a reads list and then commented on people who weren't his top scum picks, but meh)

but anyway, give me a reads list nacho. i wanna see at least 3 picks for scum if you don't wanna give town reads.

[zMuffinMan]

also having reads i disagree with is nothing to do with why i think he's scum; but you're hailing him as obvtown, so i wanna know why you think he's obvtown in spite of his reads sucking donkey balls

[zMuffinMan]

like i literally think i saw his reads earlier behind a shed with a donkey, and i'm pretty sure they were sucking donkey balls there, so i'm not just saying this without a reason. i really do think his reads suck donkey balls.

[zMuffinMan]

ok. that's cool. i don't really give a shit. you were claiming you didn't know why i thought bert could be scum; i just told you.

now give me your reads

[zMuffinMan]

-He was buddying you. How is this a scumtell?

you either didn't read or you have comprehension issues. it's not the fact that he buddied me; it's the fact that it was awkward as fuck and didn't make any sense. did you read the early game? he was bringing up a single past game, going on about how my reads there were good, etc and none of it made any sense in this game; there was no reason for him to bring it up or talk about it as much as he did

-His reads feel manufactured. his reads feel genuine to me!

ok. you're generalising my issue here but whatever. what do you like about his reads?

IK is scum???

thoughts on where you stand with every player. strength of the reads is important as well.

[zMuffinMan]

Why does something not making sense translate into it being scummy?

i analyse motivation. scum motivation for bert is that it gives him something to talk about and it's designed to get me on his side. town motivation is ?????? <- it's awkward because i can't see the town motivation for it

Also why is me giving you a reads list so important to you?

normally i wouldn't care but i think there's a decent chance you're scum here and i want to have something i can hold you against when your reads change. for example, i still have no idea what the fuck you were doing at the start of this day phase and why you were voting goodfather and asking people to sheep you, and i *think* your read there has changed but you've not really mentioned it at all. same for every other fucking read you've given.

[zMuffinMan]

do you have a learning disability?

[zMuffinMan]

Lack of controversy???

i ask whether you have a learning disability because this shows you're either retarded or you weren't reading what i was writing. i don't care whether you've done "controversial" things like vote hopping - the issue is that all of your reads were going with the flow of the game (they changed only in line with how other players were thinking) and nothing you were saying about people was going against the grain in any way. this isn't a scum tell, per se, but it is one of the reasons i think the way you were approaching reads wasn't genuine

Why did I flip flop so much on D1? Oh wait you haven't been reading the game right?? You can still change your tune

and again, another thing that points to you being either retarded or not reading properly. i was clearly reading the game D1, but if you were to ask me about stuff that happened D1, i could give you, at best, a skimmed-the-thread answer. i was chronicling most of my thoughts on the game D1 in my neighbourhood, too. what the fuck kind of response is this? rofl

Buddying??? Lmao not a scumtell

retarded or not reading

Not making sense, fake??? Bullshit fluff for scumtells. Post something real

retarded or not reading

As for asking Nacho for reads lists and strengths of reads and reasons, look in the mirror lol!!!

nobody asked me for my reads, i am asking nacho, though. retarded or not reading

[zMuffinMan]

oh, and before i forget, another thing i didn't like about bert was the awkward response to my vote on him (a la "HEY IF YOU PUT ME AT L-1 I MIGHT SELF HAMMER SO DON'T DO THAT!!") - really out of place at that time, and also really out of place if he was being genuine about improving his game

[zMuffinMan]

actually, i should be saying "retarded AND possibly not reading"

there is nothing you can say that will convince me you are not retarded

[zMuffinMan]

making random fucking comparisons

indeed, i can see that, when it's relevant to a point he's making. e.g. "X did this as scum/town in Y game"

but that's different to saying "MUFFIN HAD GOOD READS IN 1523" "HEY DID YOU GUYS NOT HEAR ME? MUFFIN HAD GOOD READS IN 1523" "HEY, GUYS, SERIOUSLY, LISTEN TO ME!"

Why do you think Bert would be concerned about manipulating you when you probably won't have much swing in determining whether to lynch him or not?

i can think of a couple possible explanations. for example. scum-him could be worried i will notice he's not town and tunnel him (which i have a tendency to do and even if i am not convincing i will still be bringing unwanted attention his way). or scum-him could have been using it as a potential excuse to sheep my reads when they're wrong. orrrrr it could have just been an effort to make it look like he was producing content when he really wasn't.

i'm more concerned with why bert would be bringing it up as town (and he mentioned viscon more than once)

Trying to trap me in switching reads isn't a good enough reason for me to give reads, sorry.

what does this even mean?

explain your goodfather read, from where it was at the end of yesterday, to where it was at the start of today, to where it is now

[zMuffinMan]

I put that in all my posts at the same day.

Check mistakes upick which is now over

Posted it at same time. So your points can suck more

........................

i can't really talk about this and i don't know why you brought it up, but even if that's true (and i'm using a hypothetical "if" here so i don't breach any ongoing game rules), it would have been conveniently timed with when i started voting you here, so you posting it across the board only makes me think you *could* have been doing this because you're scum here and wanted to make it seem like it's just something you're doing everywhere regardless of alignment.

[zMuffinMan]

Also, I understand you get this way sometimes, but please don't be a giant dick to Bert who doesn't deserve it and probably is one of the nicest people who play this game.

also i don't give a fuck how nice a guy he is. if i insult someone in a game, i am purely talking about their ability to play mafia (they could be the nicest person in the world, if they're making retarded posts in a game i'm in, i'm gonna call them retarded for it), and i rate bert as one of THE WORST FUCKING PLAYERS ON THIS SITE and he should know why i think this and if he thinks it's an unfair assessment, i really don't care. he could be very nice as a person, he could be insanely smart IRL, i don't care. it's clearly not translating to his ability to play the game.

[zMuffinMan]

maybe i am tunneling, but i'm not voting him and he's not getting lynched in the near future, so what does it matter?

and regardless of whether i'm tunneling, everything i said there is 100% truthful, it was either a massive coincidence that he did it as soon as i started voting him here orrrrrrrr he's scum

[zMuffinMan]

well it's fantastic that you're trying to help me overcome a flaw in my town game (although that would imply you think i'm town here and all other things you've said about me suggest that isn't the case) but nothing bert is doing is blatantly town and you're not exactly putting forth a town case on him (i don't expect you to do this, but claiming i'm not seeing blatant towniness and then not describing what that blatant towniness that i'm missing is is kinda derpy)

but i'm not pushing him because even if i am right, his lynch isn't happening any time soon and i could be wrong.......... so it's not actually important, is it? all it really means for this game is that i'm taking his reads with a grain of salt and i'm looking for scum outside of him

[zMuffinMan]

explain your goodfather read, from where it was at the end of yesterday, to where it was at the start of today, to where it is now

[zMuffinMan]

Nat is already unhappy with the personal attacks from when people were attacking Katsuki.

Keep it clean man, we all know Nat.

what i've said here is rather fucking tame compared to the actual contempt i have for your play (that i think nati is already aware of)

don't talk to me in this game anymore. if you think i'm scum, either try to lynch me or shut up about it. don't ask me questions, because i won't be answering anything you ask of me. i'm going to treat you like you don't exist in this game until you're dead (either because people eventually want to lynch you or because scum are stupid enough to NK you if you actually are town)

[zMuffinMan]

oh yeah i wasn't around when it was being discussed but i agree with whoever said mass claim today is a good idea

[zMuffinMan]

though i really don't care if it happens today or tomorrow. if not today, then tomorrow

[zMuffinMan]

um

it wasn't a scum slip, both idiotking and i read the message before it was deleted, and it had nothing to do with this game

[zMuffinMan]

it also has nothing to do with why i think aronis could be scum

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin is just stealing Ik's reasoning and targets and editing them and using them as his own

this is total bullshit btw

[zMuffinMan]

hmmmmmmm

can you bus your partners already?

[zMuffinMan]

i'm really hungry

prodge while i go and get some food then read stuff here

[zMuffinMan]

why are there so many long posts :<

i think i read somewhere selkies (maybe?) saying something about aronis being too aggressive to be scum or something.

this is one of the only reasons i'm hesitant to vote him atm. coz like, everything else he's doing makes me think scum.

also don't really think that all three of {selkies, nacho, aronis} are town

[zMuffinMan]

hmmmmm could you vote already?

no

Nominate Bert for Town Leader

i will murder you and piss on your corpse if you aren't trolling me, here

i strongly disagree with this quote

[zMuffinMan]

This is you abdicating responsibility for your vote

do you think ns is scum? or...?

I don't want to be at LYLO with bert again

simple solution is don't let it get to lylo

like if it gets to lylo and bert is alive and he's town

well

i mean we *might* win if by some miracle scum self-votes or something?

[zMuffinMan]

nacho would you do me the favour of self-voting at lylo to give us a handicap if bert is actually town? coz you'll prob still win even with that. bert will think you're town self-voting and then vote me and then you'll hammer and gg

i am very, very sad because i believe this is a very real possibility

[zMuffinMan]

He may be right but the bluster and aggressiveness looks newbtown to me.

this is the quote i remember skimming over earlier. thing is, some of the more recent things he said in the neighbourhood (prior to him saying he wasn't going to post there anymore) came off as rather indignant - like he thought he had a point and was in the right. he was talking about how it's only the neighbours who see him as scum and he thinks i'm being contradictory by pointing out that although he upped his activity today a lot of the shit he's writing is fluff that is useless for getting a read on him <- he never fully elaborated on how this makes any sense but whatever

i'm also trying to figure out whether or not it's likely he'd vote nacho at the end of D1 instead of voting ross for survival reasons. meh. not a strong point here but i'm thinking about what happened at the end of yesterday and that stuck out as weird.

I really do think nacho's town.

why?

also i would like to see your answers to the questions cabd asked in the spoiler. i see no pro-town reason for avoiding those questions

[zMuffinMan]

Pretty sure I'm going to turn the next mislynch into a vengeful townie, barring them giving me a really stupid name

if i offer myself up, will you shoot nacho?

i'm not gonna but i just wanna know if you'll shoot nacho. coz i would really like for that to happen.

[zMuffinMan]

so even though i think that their cases on basically everyone sucks, we discount them for the purposes of reading his alignment.

i disagree with this, i think you can tell a lot about newbies from the way they're scum hunting, which is why i've been (unsuccessfully) trying to get aronis to stick to stuff that relates to his reads rather than saying random shit that doesn't matter

it's not so much how "good" or "bad" his scum hunting method is but whether it looks like he's genuinely trying to find scum or not. and what i've seen so far has left me unimpressed - it bothers me a lot that he gives "townpoints" for things that aren't really town and has a different scum read for every day of the week

this is random, this is naked and unreasonable anger at something that impacts a hypothetical scum win-con

i had the same awkward feelings about his reaction to bert mentioning his scum game that just finished buttttttttttt i'm considering the possibility that he thinks he'll be lynched because people will make unfair comparisons or something so i dunno. it's a terrible reaction but it's not necessarily scummy.

a lot of aronis' play this game can be described as overeager

also an issue i have with aronis is that he only really became "overeager" after D1 - D1 he was pretty lurky and uninterested. i was thinking this might have something to do with him being told overnight "hey you almost got lynched, up your activity and stop lurking" or something like that. coz i dunno. just seemed weird.

[zMuffinMan]

This was GF's first substantive post

define "substantive" - if you mean talking about reads, yeah sure, but i quite liked his first (was it his first?) post where he talked about the katsuki stuff and theorised about scum team's size etc - i dunno, it gave me mild town vibes

There's a lot of hedge to some of these reads, and his vote choice (us) looked opportunistic both for the reasoning (including parroting complaints that other players made to get us to change our posting style and frequency, but calling it scummy) and the timing

most early game reads are hedged to some degree? and his reasoning may have been somewhat opportunistic, but i'm kinda meh on that. a lot of the stuff about hydras reminded me a little of cash cabd hopefullycynical - i mean, hopefullycynical never voted a hydra for it buttttt the general approach to hydras felt similar. also i'm slightly biased because everything goodfather said about your early game was what i was already thinking - you guys did spam up the first 6 pages with shit that wasn't relevant and no matter what orcinus says about moving out of RVS i don't think it was helpful at all

as for timing, meh

This post also bugged me when it hit the thread because of how reactive it was.

i don't get why it bugged you. if anything, the reaction looks kinda townish to me? it'd be easy for him to just back off and apologise but getting all antsy about it looked kinda townish? at least i think so

This is a reaction to orcinus. It looks to me like he knew that the “oooh hydra – unknown = scum” read is weak and shallow. So why not build on the case? And why not work to develop a better read.

i think that's what he was doing? at least his opinion on you looked similar to my own at the time and there was nothing much more to add to it i think.

This once again feels like he was using irritability that others expressed as a leaping-off-point.

i haven't checked how his read on katsuki progressed but given how many people didn't like katsuki's prod dodging i'm not reading too much into it. he may have been sheeping general opinion, or he may not have been. you could make a similar argument for a lot of people being scummy for this, so uh... meh

his reason for voting Katsuki – that he had been following the crowd wrt to our wagon – was false, and actually fits his own voting behavior better than Katsuki's

people are often ignorant of their own faults (except me because i have none)

i mean... all this said he *might* be scum and i could just be really, really shit at reading him but i don't think he's scum and nothing here would sway me

[zMuffinMan]

This was his beginning stance of day 2. No comment the two competing wagons that ended in Ross' lynch at the end of the day. Nothing about the huge discussion of my meta and the NK choice. 2 flips and another wagon on us, and none of it appears to have affected his take from day 1.

why is this scummy?

like i get not commenting on stuff and whatever, but generally i associate being consistent with reads as more a stubborn town thing

I want to know where in this:

viewtopic.php?t=37251&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select%5B%5D=23421&user_select%5B%5D=0&user_select%5B%5D=0&user_sort=Go

he found the data to develop a scum read, especially since his other reads have been so influenced by other players' irritabilities.

i dunno why goodfather was scum reading kaboooom, but i had minor feelings about kaboooom being scum - mostly on the possibility that you're town and his vote on you actually

was

opportunistic. ftr, if one of you and nacho flips scum, the other is prob town for this (assuming the very likely scenario that this is single faction)

He's acknowledging most of the lynch sentiment there was policy, but he said he was reading katsuki as scum

i get the feeling he was talking about other people's stances on katsuki, not his own? and hopping off a lynch that isn't happening is fairly standard?

And as I mentioned earlier, this post, asking for my read and ending it with a "whoever I'm talking to" felt discrediting.

how was that discrediting?

[zMuffinMan]

there are certain things that goodfather has done that i think look town but i really can't be bothered going over his iso atm

are we mass claiming?

[zMuffinMan]

i was in one of my rare moods where i actually feel like posting shit tonight. see you again in two or three weeks for another night like this ~back to lurking~

[zMuffinMan]

their wagon disintegrated because i unvoted and i was the only one with a real reason for voting them

*shrug*

don't think it means anything when the rest of the wagon was aronis (who voted for ???), kaboooom (who voted for ???), katsuki (who is katsuki) and goodfather (who unvoted because the wagon was basically dead)

[zMuffinMan]

unvote for a bit in case some derp comes along and quickhammers to prove a point

if goodfather is going to be viged on a selkies town flip, he should claim first

[zMuffinMan]

Unless you're the scum in the neighborhood, but I kinda doubt that.

why even say this then?

coz i don't care about dead people reads except in-so-far-as i can see their logic and i agree with it (which i clearly don't)

[zMuffinMan]

besides, if cabd viges him then why does it matter what i think?

so again, why even say that?

[zMuffinMan]

i don't care about other people's reads

only care about them if i can see where they're coming from and it makes sense that i could be wrong - but generally i ignore it in favour of my own reads

only time i'd ever consider a dead person's reads is if i thought they were really, really, really good at reading X player and i'm really, really, really bad at it. and even then i'd try to form my own opinion, sooooooooooooo at most i'd take their points into consideration and see whether i agree with their perspective

same as when i deal with living players i don't know the alignment of. makes no different to me. if i think a point is valid, i think a point is valid. if i don't, i don't.

[zMuffinMan]

if there is scum, yes.

if idiotking posted more i'd feel a lot more confident in my town read there. it's not the strongest, but there are a decent amount of things that i think are far more likely to come from him as town than him as scum (both in thread and in qt)

[zMuffinMan]

i'm so town that i went to the doctor and he was like "your shit is green, that's a horrible thing to happen to someone" and I was like "no it's because I'm town".

this seems inappropriate and not very funny at all

do you think nacho would make a joke like that as town? i dunno. seems like something someone is more likely to say as scum than town

[zMuffinMan]

that was contextually different

[zMuffinMan]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

you might have a point

[zMuffinMan]

for once

oh you

[zMuffinMan]

goodfather claim

[zMuffinMan]

also don't auto-hammer selkies after a goodfather claim

[zMuffinMan]

(i would feel a lot more comfortable if someone unvoted)

[zMuffinMan]

I've already hinted at it.

i know you've been hinting at something

that's why i want you to claim

because there are certain things i want to check make sense when i see what your actual claim is

[zMuffinMan]

ok. that is what i was assuming you were going to claim and that is why i wanted a mass claim

[zMuffinMan]

And i am especially not inclined to claim because revealing my role would put a more important role in jeopardy.

although i think this is an overstatement since it doesn't _really_ put a doc in jeopardy and doc isn't _actually_ important if you're a back-up doc

[zMuffinMan]

also why did it take you so long to unvote SSK after his claim? (he claimed #1644, you posted twice afterwards and then unvoted in your third post)

[zMuffinMan]

really? coz last i checked you had ssk as town for one post and you were saying to nacho that his later play looking scummy was countered solely by that one post?

[zMuffinMan]

now can we lynch ssk together, ffery?

I want to know what orcinus thinks about it. I can see SSK stepping up his game in honor of Nati's triumphant return to modding.

which post was it?

140. That whole exchange between Four Trouble and SSK was good, though.

p-edit. Yeah the Empking post in the JS micro was one of the posts/games I was thinking about.

ssk looks like too easy a vote, and i am still having a hard time believing his day 1 play could be scum

so all the posts about mafiassk were orcinus, including that one you mentioned #140 as the main reason for the town read?

[zMuffinMan]

hmm didn't meant to quote those but yeah i'm going through and checking what you were saying about mafiassk and trying to figure out who is saying what

[zMuffinMan]

Granted it could also be perfectly as well that scum is using my claim to clear GF at least some

considering he was softing it (or at least severely limiting what he could fake claim) well before you claimed doc, i don't think so

[zMuffinMan]

i just realised you never claimed a n1 protect

[zMuffinMan]

I think I'll trust Cabd here in the spirit of NatMod. And if this goes like AA, well then, yeah.

VOTE: Selkies

Prove your towniness, Selkies!

this is your first d2 post

[zMuffinMan]

i don't have a full picture set of thoughts atm

i think goodfather is likely telling the truth about his claim, i think ssk is doc - i'm just not sure whether he's scum or town atm (and i would really like for a mass claim to be completed to talk about balance and whether doc+nurse makes sense but this town is very disorganised and there's not enough time left in the day phase) - i'm also rather surprised that i seem to be the only one who picked up on the obvious softing that was coming from goodfather - nacho backed off after i first kinda pointed it out iand said really thought goodfather was town (which came shortly after the first time he softed) and i was trying to question nacho about the read and whether he was seeing what i was seeing and whatever but nacho never gave me a response here sooooooo i dunno

i don't really wanna lynch ssk today

i'm wavering on my selkies read - they could very well be scum but i don't feel comfortable about lynching them atm. i'm also really unsure on my aronis read atm.

so i'm actually really on the fence about shit atm and i dunno what to do - i'd like a nacho lynch but i don't think it's happening today. and bert's not dying any time soon even if he is scum.

[zMuffinMan]

i mean if you're looking for a full reads list i can give you the same one i posted in QT a couple days ago (not much has changed) but i'm wavering on a lot of my reads atm

[zMuffinMan]

i don't think IK is scum

[zMuffinMan]

i don't think ns is scum
i don't think idiotking is scum
i don't think mafiassk is scum*
i don't think guyett is scum
i don't think cabd is scum
i don't think goodfather is scum*


this is where i'm at right now

* to be reassessed if we ever fucking mass claim

[zMuffinMan]

if there is another PR in the game, scum have some sort of strongman or roleblocking role

if the unclaimed players are VTs, maybe not

entirely depends on what nati thinks about neighbourhoods as "power" and whether there's scum in the neighbourhood

[zMuffinMan]

do something that looks town, nacho

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: Nacho

more of a statement than anything

[zMuffinMan]

You have mass. You claim.

i never realised why they called it mass claim before now. this makes so much sense

[zMuffinMan]

I may have been wrong about Katsuki: I could see him faking a replace out to preserve a scum slot.
Could be wrong about Muffin/Aronis, maybe. I'm currently trying to rip the notion that one could be scum out of my head.
You're not scum, Selkies isn't scum probably.

Notscience isn't scum.

how many scum do you think there are, nacho?

[zMuffinMan]

I think Notscience is scum. His in thread chat thread with Bert earlier was pretty town and great, but I have major niggles based on no recent play and him not really being paranoid of me or attempting to sort it in any way lately.

hm

if aronis is scum, you're either town or he hasn't talked about why i think notscience townslipped or you are pretending not to know about it

[zMuffinMan]

also the lack of night kills doesn't make sense because if mafiassk is town, there is no way scum targeted cabd thinking they could kill him without blocking ssk or something

soooooooooooooooo

some shit is going on here

[zMuffinMan]

2388

[zMuffinMan]

What shit is going on here? Because I tried to think of a reason for scum to fuck up that badly

i don't know

but some weird shit happened and the only thing i can see making sense is scum didn't submit a kill for whatever reason

[zMuffinMan]

It also helps that Cabd was shot last night (which we know since no one has a reason to no kill except for the three claims which all look town to me and make the setup make sense by being town) because that was a stupid fucking kill for the scum team and ffery is pretty night phase focused and wouldn't make a fuckup like that.

assuming both cabd and mafiassk are town, who exactly do you think

would

be stupid enough to shoot at the only person mafiassk would reasonably protect?

[zMuffinMan]

No clue. Did they fail to submit an NK?

if night ended early, no. it was a conscious decision for some reason

[zMuffinMan]

prod dodge

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: Nacho