Mini 416 - AM Mafia - Game Over D:
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Elias_the_thief He/HimNot Statistically SignificantHe/Him
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it would only be a drawn out mass claim if we were dumb enough to cause that many claims. causing one person to claim isnt a great idea, but it's not as bad as you're saying. as I see it, Nai is the only one to present any scummy behavior at all, and that was only overdefensiveness. i guess illIH wrote:unvote, vote:Shea
Dude, bandwagons are NOT for day 1 claims. That's playing like Coolbot, where you go for the most claims out of the day. If you play this way, we essentially mass claim in a drawn out fashion.unvote-
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according to mg anyways. i didnt find the question itself to be scummy, but i found you a little bit overdefensive about it. now that you point out how bad his reasons were, he looks pretty scummy.Nai wrote:Apparently, me asking questions Scum would already know the answer to makes me scum. Again: Mafia, the game where the most bass-ackwards reasoning will supposedly net you a win.fos: massive_goonery-
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seeing as i'm still relatively new (not in time on site but in actual games played) i'm not sure on rules about post restrictions that vary depending on game type. but cogs findings are fairly compelling. this is either 1) a very big coincidence, 2) the mod bending the rules a bit, or 3) TSQ just messing with our heads.
either way, im confused.I play the games rul gud.-
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as i already said, i dont really know much about the rules on role restrictions, but after rereading the main rules, it doesnt say anything about not allowing post restrictions in mini normal games. maybe it says it somewhere else, i'm not sure. what made cogs discovery scummy enough to warrant a fos?IH wrote:....
This is a mini regular. There cannot be post restrictions.
fos:Cog
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----6:05:00 Vote Count-----
“I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day.”~Frank Sinatra
massive_goonery - 3 - (Ripley, Thestatusquo, PBuG)
Thestatusquo - 1 - (Nai)
Not voting - 8 - (Sailor Jerry, trestain, bird1111, CoG888, massive_goonery, Elias_the_thief, IH, Panzerjager)
seems kind of wierd that TSQ has one then.IH wrote:........In a mini regular, there cannot be post restrictions, perhaps you should look up what a mini regular contains?-
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https://www.mafiascum.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/Mini_Normal
the wiki doesnt say anything about post restrictions in this definition.-
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As everyones already said, that wasnt 47. and TSQ already explained his restriction as having a small margin for mistakes.IH wrote:That was 47 Shea. Not Counting Spaces.
Seriously, he does not have a post restriction, or else he's broken it about 20 times, and is dicking around.
Thestatusquo wrote:45 non quote non space characters per post. I am alloweThestatusquo wrote:d 10 over/under per game. That means that I can miss my qThestatusquo wrote:uota in 10 posts by one character each, or 1 post of 10 ch-
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----6:06:01 AM - Vote Count-----
“Lose an hour in the morning, and you will be all day hunting for it." ~Richard Whately
massive_goonery - 4 - (Ripley, Thestatusquo, PBuG, Sailor Jerry)
IH - 2 - (CoG888, Panzerjager)
Thestatusquo - 1 - (Nai)
PBuG - 1 - (massive_goonery)
Not voting - 4 - ( trestain, bird1111, Elias_the_thief, IH )
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mustn't get too hasty. someone being an idiot could still be a townie being an idiot. though i think we might need to get a claim from MG soon.PBuG wrote:*points and laughs for a good 10 seconds*
Can we lynch massive_goonery now, plzkthx?-
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well mg. here's an analysis on your play so far:
first was your complete and utter craplogic for jumping on the Nai wagon. you basically said that since he was acting in a semi protownish way (asking a question that scum would know the answer to) that he must be scum trying to look townish. by that logic, you'd successfully lynch everone who looks protown.massive_goonery wrote:
I know it sounds minor, but I could theoretically see this as pretty scummy. Presumably mafia already have this information, so asking about it seems like a scum tactic to seem pro-town. Also, I can see it as a longshot at possibly setting up a false claim later on.Nai wrote:I have no idea what that just meant.
What I want to know is if "Sleep" equates to mafia all the time, and if all the 'sleep'-ers can talk to each other at night.
Looks like there were a couple of unvotes, so I'm cool with aVote: Naiat this point.
after that you go on to ignore the conversation about how the reasons for the bandwagon werent really because he was scummy but for information purposes. you also say that you agree with my post where I say that i didnt like Nai's overdefensiveness, totally ignoring my post 71 in which I denounce my own reasoning as not that great and unvote.
you also just kinda say that shea is scummy, without providing much reason why.massive_goonery wrote:
At the moment, Shea is by far the scummiest, with Nai fading some. However, I fear that if he gets run up too quickly we won't learn anything from his lynching. Figuring out whether Nai is town or scum would give massive context to posts #46 and #42. And I do still think he is mafia; I stand by my original post #32 and Elias_the_thief sums up my thoughts to his reaction very well in his post #44.
I'd like to hear what the lurkers think about this before I decide which way to go, sounvote.
then, finally, you go on to vote someone because of anti bandwagoning?
i'm pretty sure he was "going after your neck" for your crappy reasoning, not because you put him at -4, which is really not that close to a lynch. and i dont think Panzerjager restated your reasons at all. while your reasons were that Nai asking the question was scummy, Panzers were as follows:massive_goonery wrote:Vote: PBuGfor going after my neck for bandwagoning when I put Nai at lynch minus 4 (after two unvotes!). That's anti-bandwagoning. And for glossing over his scumbuddy friendFoS: Panzerjagerfor having "substantial reasoning" when he pretty much restated my reasons for voting Nai in the first place (less eloquently, I might add).
it seems to me his reasons are more based around his reaction then the actual question itself. his vote is also based around the fact that he felt that Nai's logic when he defended his question was poor. not that his action was scum buddying up to town, which was your reasoning.Panzerjager wrote:What up, Shea? This is DC from WIFOM. Anyway, I also think Cubsfan is scummy. Okay, game-related content now Ladies, Gentlemen, and IH.
I dislike how Skruffs clearly wrote that Sleep = Mafia and Work=Town in the rules and Nai is still pushing that it doesn't directly say that Sleep can night talk. He then says that in Normal games things don't change all that much(which is true) and that it is highly probable that Sleep is normal mafia. So, when you think that,they are normal mafia and Skruffs writes that they are normal mafia then it's not normal mafia, in a normal mafia game? Your logic doesn't make any sense and that last sentence was very wordy but I can't make it better. It's seems like Nai is trying to find holes that he can wiggles himself into when he needs to fake a claim. Just for some semi relevant information, Nai is an experianced player so this probably isn't something that can be blamed on him being a "new player".
Vote: Naifor his poor logic and trying to find holes in the system.
so far, you've made about 4 or 5 posts, and at least three of them have contained craplogic. the other two have pretty much been claiming that you're reasons were the same as other players', when they weren't. So, that's why I feel that you're the scummiest right now, and worthy of a lynch. but as I said earlier, I'm in favor of a claim and a defense before we decide to do anything.-
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I'm not really understanding all of the guessing at purposes of various household objects and trying to discern alignment from them. I dont think any of us will have the same perspective, on what would logically be work or sleep in terms of telephones, as the mod would have on it, and I dont think talk like that is getting us anywhere.
but i went through and did a reread. Not much really jumped out at me besides what I outlined in my case for MG. but this one sequence of posts caught my eye.Thestatusquo wrote:
TSQ was fishing for reactions. MG is scum.Ripley wrote:I think claims on Day 1 are far more likely to help scum than to expose them. When TSQ said that early claims were good I actually thought he must be joking, though with my record of detecting wit from that quarter, he was probably dead serious this time.
I'm keeping my original random vote on massive_goonery, for the reasons given by PBug in Post 46. Also, in most games I've played the high profile players over the first few pages - equivalent to TSQ and Nai in this game - have turned out to be town.
Vote: MassG
to me it seemed that TSQ was poking fun at ripleys post, in which he basically was saying that TSQ was fishing for reactions, so he would keep his vote on MG. of course my interpretation could be wrong.PBuG wrote:Gasp. You expect me to switch now, don't you. You know what, I think I will.Unvote, vote: massive_goonery
TSQ, often the things you do don't make sense until you explain them. I've seen someone else bandwagon that quickly fishing for reactions, too, and it helped catch the SK.
but assuming that it was correct, im kind of disturbed at how quickly pbug changed his vote on something like that.
anyways, back to current game status. as far as lynching goes, i still find MG to be the most scummy. personally, i dont believe that panzer has a case against bug since its based on hypothetical guesses of the mods perceptions. if we all have different opinions on whether telephone would be work or sleep, then the mod could have a different opinion too. i also feel that panzer, though suspiciously fishing for a claim, is not suspicious enough to be lynched currently. im just more inclined to believe that MG is scum. I think our the best move today would still be a lynch of MG, and hope for more info tomorrow.
and that's my two cents.-
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i'm not sold on panzers guilt just yet, though i admit the fishing looks suspicious. in my opinion, we should stick to the MG lynch today, and worry about tomorrow when it's tomorrow. that being said, how many votes does it take to lynch? the mod didnt post it, so i dont feel comfortable placing a vote when I dont know. But are we in agreement about a MG lynch (except obviously MG)?-
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I dont feel that the first part of this is fair. If pbug feels that the things i already outlined are sufficient for an MG lynch then theres no reason to force him to come up with evidence that probably isnt there. of course, he voted right after I asked if everyone was in agreement, and suggested that we proceed with caution. without waiting for any of the others players to answer he went ahead and put MG pretty close to lynch.CoG888 wrote:VOTE: Pbug.
I will drop this vote and vote for MG if you provide the following:
1. I better reason to lynch MG other then his actions regarding Nai's bandwagon (specifically MG's vote after the wagon disbanded).
2. Well thought out opinions on panzer and myself, who you have pegged as day 2 lynchs
personally, I would like to hear pbugs case on cog, seeing as he's already setting him up as the lynch 2 days from now, and i havent heard much that could make a case. the case against panzer is pretty weak in my opinion, so i'd also like to hear why he's comfortable enough to already be certain of him as a lynch tomorrow.-
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[quote="PBuG"]
I think you and Panzer are scum because the three of you are oviously connected in some way. quote]
While I agree that they look to be connected, they certainly arent confirmed scum because of it. There is always the possibility of masons.
But yeah, pbug didnt follow me unto the MG wagon, he started it, and I merely presented the case against Mg in an organized form.
I think we may need prods, we've been waiting for what the rest of the town has to say for some time.-
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I feel about ready to lynch MG. there's probably not much more to be done today. But MG'd alignment will either be what he said, providing us with some info on pbugs alignment, or MG will have been lying, in which case we'll probably hit scum. i doubt that MG would make up a claim if he was just vanilla, but I suppose its a possibility.
In conclusion, is it ok with everyone if i put him at -1? or is he at -1? the mods edit doesnt say how many to lynch, and I'm not sure how recently that count has been updated anyhow.I play the games rul gud.-
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on who? besides our case against MG, we dont really have a strong case to kill someone else without further discussion. so if MG's claim is true, we'd essentially be making a random lynch, and since there are more town than mafia, the odds of hitting scum as opposed to town are very slim. i dont think that's a risk i'm willing to take right now.Jingolaw wrote: Agreed, but I think it depends not only on whether MG is town, but if he true claimed. Also, has anyone considered taking MG's offer to use his vig?-
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people for an MG lynch: bird, panzer, TSQ, myself, pbug, ripley, Nai, and I assume sailor jerry since he's voting for him. (if I'm incorrect about anyones opinions please correct them, i'm just going by whatever posts I can find, and who's voting who)
Cog said he doesnt want a lynch this early, and jingolaw is against it apparently. I havent actually heard IH state if he's for or against it, and obviously MG is against it. I think we can pretty much go ahead at this point, but I'm willing to wait for IH to voice his opinion on the situation.-
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I also dont understand your argument. youre saying a townie wouldnt lie because theyd be lynched and wouldnt be trusted. doesnt a scum player have the same exact motivation to not lie as a townie? no one wants to be lynched, cog.
@TSQ: even if i dont think that you're necessarily scum because you lied, i find your lie suspicious because it allowed you to get away with not explaining anything you did day one. i dont see why a town player would want to limit the information that they are contributing to other town players, i.e. motivation behind their actions. this just seems kind of anti town to me.I play the games rul gud.-
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oh, im not saying you contributed nothing. you did successfully try to teach Nai a little, as well as fully explain a post restriction which you in fact, did not have.Thestatusquo wrote:Elias,
You really feel I avoided discussion day1? You really feel I didn't address points and make some of my own? I even went to the lengths of quadruple and quintuple posting to get around that. You're completely missconstruing my d1 actions.
regardless of what you did contribute, you could have have contributed much more had you not faked a restriction. and furthermore, you complained because you wanted to make an in depth post, but you couldnt because you had a post restriction. even if you're not scum, youre not really helping us out much either. did you honestly expect us to just accept that you lied and move on? the possibility of ensuing confusion was inevitable and completely predictable, and yet you went on anyways for a little bit of fun.
but all TSQ crap aside, i too would like an answer out of fircoal.Ripley wrote:Fircoal wrote:
You did, say that you thought MG was town, and that's all you would say about it.Panzerjager wrote: Thirdly, I never said I was staying away from the MG wagon I simply would have prefered a PBuG lynch. There was no one, myself included, wanted to spend the time to test MG's claim.
Vote: Panzerjager
This is in danger of being buried by all the posts about tsq. I agree with Elias, I can't find where he said MG was town either. Fircoal, you put a fast third vote on here, can you please say where you got this from?Elias_the_thief wrote:er, i believe he actually said that he thought they were both nuetral. i dont think he said anything about him being town.
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This seems to have been buried. TSQ really in fact didnt contribute much besides what i stated above. the post was sarcastic. You really didnt contribute much, seeing as most of your posts were explaining the game to Nai, who didnt really need it, and to explaining your post restriction, which you didnt have. this is why it was none beneficial, you added pretty much nothing.Elias_the_thief wrote:
oh, im not saying you contributed nothing. you did successfully try to teach Nai a little, as well as fully explain a post restriction which you in fact, did not have.Thestatusquo wrote:Elias,
You really feel I avoided discussion day1? You really feel I didn't address points and make some of my own? I even went to the lengths of quadruple and quintuple posting to get around that. You're completely missconstruing my d1 actions.
regardless of what you did contribute, you could have have contributed much more had you not faked a restriction. and furthermore, you complained because you wanted to make an in depth post, but you couldnt because you had a post restriction. even if you're not scum, youre not really helping us out much either. did you honestly expect us to just accept that you lied and move on? the possibility of ensuing confusion was inevitable and completely predictable, and yet you went on anyways for a little bit of fun.
its very easy to think that you could be a mafioso who faked the restriction. It gives you a free check to make small posts with little content. its also easy for me to believe that you forgot about your plan, and when people pointed it out, you faked the whole "fake for a challenge thing". even though a town player could use this tactic for fun, in my opinion its much more likely that a scum player would use this tactic to make it an easier game for themself.-
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Stuff bout Pbug:Well. We had two NK's last night, so we either have a vig or SK on our hands. Based on Pbug's partial claim, he would be either the vig or the SK i guess. sometimes ive felt that he is too easily convinced. ill do a reread focusing on his play later. I'm curious about pbugs role, but I'm not sure how scummy he is yet.
Stuff bout Panzer:There's the matter of him fishing for a claim a while back, and he was very quick to put the last vote on. but really, not strong enough for a lynch in my opinion.
Stuff bout TSQ:i still dont like the post restriction. regardless of the LAL argument, faking a post restriction is something thats simply more beneficial to scum then town (as in, its more useful to do as scum). basically your argument that it was for a challenge is the same as saying "i decided to vote hop and fish for claims first day and see if i could live". maybe it was for fun, maybe it wasnt, but you'd probably still be lynched because you cant let every person who claims "oh, i did something scummy for a challenge" live.
Stuff bout Jingolaw:im not keen on how you've acted since you've jumped in. you seem too eager to lynch. but not too suspicious, because youre fairly new. (not to mafia but the site) perhaps youve never played online before. id like you to clear that question up so i have a better idea about how to judge your actions.
Stuff bout Fircoal: the way you based your vote off of someone saying something that they in fact didnt say disturbed me. thats about it.
I dont think any of these people have committed lynchable offenses. theyre notthatsuspicious, yet. but i'm still mainly wary of TSQ, IGMEOY. we obviously cant afford a mislynch if we're losing two a night. of course, it could be that we have a vig, and the vig made a kill last night. since MG was one shot, i'd bet any other vigs would be one shot too. I suppose i could post my opinions on other people too, but I wanted to post on the most active people whom my suspicions are on. if youre not on the list, im either not suspicious of you, or you need to start posting more.-
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yeah, youre right about that. I was under the impression that you were going to put it down when we were in agreement, but you were just doing what you said you would.Panzerjager wrote:EBWOP:
CoG: I said once Elias laid the vote, I would hammer. I did what I promised. I was under the impression that Elias would have my back if it came down to lynching me for hammering.
Anyways, i'd like to hear some more content from TSQ. when he, er, had his post restriction, he complained that he couldnt make an in depth post. i dont see whats stopping him now.-
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Elias_the_thief He/HimNot Statistically SignificantHe/Him
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Elias_the_thief He/HimNot Statistically SignificantHe/Him
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Elias_the_thief He/HimNot Statistically SignificantHe/Him
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Elias_the_thief He/HimNot Statistically SignificantHe/Him
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Elias_the_thief He/HimNot Statistically SignificantHe/Him
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When was the last time you added anything of worth, TSQ? you claimed a post restriction day one, complained that you couldnt post anything of content, but now that its gone, all youve done is defend your own move to make the restriction up. And I still feel that the false post restriction is scummy since there is so much more to gain as scum with a restriction then as town, seeing as its a free pass to post almost no content. You also totally ignored the two posts I made showing how you in fact posted nothing of worth D1 despite how you claimed to.
And also, as a sidenote, I posted my opinions about most of the players a while back, and thats how I still feel. If you cant remember my opinions, I suggestyoudo a reread.I play the games rul gud.-
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Elias_the_thief He/HimNot Statistically SignificantHe/Him
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As I said my last post, I've already posted my opinion on many of the players. But rather than actually rereading to find out what I was talking about, you accuse me of OMGUSing, when in fact I wasnt, since I had already posted several times about how you hadnt posted any content, and was simply reiterating.
I also was actually involved in D1. Now instead of attacking me for lack of content, perhaps you could post some.Elias_the_thief wrote:Stuff bout Pbug:Well. We had two NK's last night, so we either have a vig or SK on our hands. Based on Pbug's partial claim, he would be either the vig or the SK i guess. sometimes ive felt that he is too easily convinced. ill do a reread focusing on his play later. I'm curious about pbugs role, but I'm not sure how scummy he is yet.
Stuff bout Panzer:There's the matter of him fishing for a claim a while back, and he was very quick to put the last vote on. but really, not strong enough for a lynch in my opinion.
Stuff bout TSQ:i still dont like the post restriction. regardless of the LAL argument, faking a post restriction is something thats simply more beneficial to scum then town (as in, its more useful to do as scum). basically your argument that it was for a challenge is the same as saying "i decided to vote hop and fish for claims first day and see if i could live". maybe it was for fun, maybe it wasnt, but you'd probably still be lynched because you cant let every person who claims "oh, i did something scummy for a challenge" live.
Stuff bout Jingolaw:im not keen on how you've acted since you've jumped in. you seem too eager to lynch. but not too suspicious, because youre fairly new. (not to mafia but the site) perhaps youve never played online before. id like you to clear that question up so i have a better idea about how to judge your actions.
Stuff bout Fircoal: the way you based your vote off of someone saying something that they in fact didnt say disturbed me. thats about it.
I dont think any of these people have committed lynchable offenses. theyre notthatsuspicious, yet. but i'm still mainly wary of TSQ, IGMEOY. we obviously cant afford a mislynch if we're losing two a night. of course, it could be that we have a vig, and the vig made a kill last night. since MG was one shot, i'd bet any other vigs would be one shot too. I suppose i could post my opinions on other people too, but I wanted to post on the most active people whom my suspicions are on. if youre not on the list, im either not suspicious of you, or you need to start posting more.I play the games rul gud.-
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Elias_the_thief He/HimNot Statistically SignificantHe/Him
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Times when you posted 4-5 times to express something:
- When you explained to Nai the purpose of Bandwagoning Day 1
- When you explained a post restriction that you actually didnt have.
Thats about all I see. Your greatest contribution to Day 1 was explaining to Nai the reasoning behind the bandwagon on him. The way you talk about making these 4-5 post long opinions implies that you contributed more than you did.I play the games rul gud.-
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Elias_the_thief He/HimNot Statistically SignificantHe/Him
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Elias_the_thief He/HimNot Statistically SignificantHe/Him
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first, explain which post youre talking about which contained the logic I "bit".
second, I already explained how it wasnt OMGUS seeing as I had already posted my suspicions based on lack of input from you several posts before, and you simply refused to respond to them.
Did you like, actually read the post? The main point was that you ignored my other posts, and you call that OMGUS? That doesnt even make sense.
Anyways, I asked pbug, not you. Is there any reason you feel the need to tell me what his reasons are, rather than let him express them himself?I play the games rul gud.-
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Elias_the_thief He/HimNot Statistically SignificantHe/Him
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You said right after you were outed that your intention was to give yourself a challenge, not to stimulate conversation. If a mafioso attempts to blend in by casting new suspicions on a townie already under fire, and the player is lynched and turns out to be a serial killer, that helps out the town. But that doesnt change their alignment. Your argument is dumb because you essentially caused conversation by accident, as Im quite certain you simply forgot you were supposed to be faking a PR.Thestatusquo wrote:
1) Faking the PR led to discussion, which was valuable to the town. I would say the people who pushed for a lynch because "PR's are not in normal games." probably has a decent chance to be scum, as I do not see town reaction to something as "lynch it without any more discussion plz." That's one major contribution I have had.
As for the actual action you took, its dumb. If a mechanic is claimed in a type of game where that mechanic is not allowed, it is essentially a false claim. Not only that, but a false claim that lets you limit your contributions. I think thats a fair reason to be suspicious of someone.
My post was for the purpose of announcing my return to the game, nothing more. There had been two posts between mine to say I would be out and mine where I returned. I planned to reread soon after that post. I posted simply so that players knew I was back, and yes, I commented on the lack of action, but I didnt ask other players to start posting more. Way to put words in my mouth.Thestatusquo wrote: 3) Re: Elias. I voted him because what he did is a fairly common scum move. It goes like this:
1) You notice there is no discussion in the game
2) You call for people to discuss, without adding anything yourself
3) You seem to be persuing a protown course of action, but are not actually helping the town at all yourself. This is why "Wow...Nothing going on here...Can you guys discuss plz" posts will always be looked at carefully in my eyes.
Please. Give me a quote where you actually do this. You were simply another person on the wagon. If by making people to take sides, you mean asking Nai if d1 wagons where good or not, then I laugh at this point.Thestatusquo wrote: 4) I helped push the nai wagon which led to the start of our first day 1 discussion. Basically, I forced people to take sides on something for the first time this gameI play the games rul gud.-
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Elias_the_thief He/HimNot Statistically SignificantHe/Him
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Elias_the_thief He/HimNot Statistically SignificantHe/Him
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How the hell was my attack OMGUS? I was repeating arguments which I posted before you voted me! Stop pretending that my attacks arent right. youre "contributions", if you choose to call them that, would have been greater if you hadnt made up a fake restriction, regardles of what you did "contribute". therefore the restriction allowed you to get away with less contribution, and that makes it suspicious. Anyways, the whole reasonThestatusquo wrote:The attack was almost pure OMGUS,youre voting me is because I was supposedly "trying to look town",(which I wasnt, you put words in my mouth, and have yet to respond to the fact your accusations against me on this account are WRONG), but lets look at your own post day 1.
This is right after another player makes an in depth post full of analysis. you basically say, I would help the town if I could but wait, I have a resriction.Thestatusquo wrote:I really wish that I could make a post like that one....If thats not trying to falsely appear protown, then I dont know what is.
As I said in my last post, your fake restriction is essentially a false claim in terms of incrimination. And any contribution that came of your faked restriction (discussion stimulation) is greatly outweighed by the confusion it caused within the town.
ugh.unvote, vote: TSQ. I believe thats -2.I play the games rul gud.-
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Dont follow your scumbuddy around. I want to hear it from YOU.PBuG wrote:
My reasons are pretty much what TSQ just said.Elias_the_thief wrote:Anyways, I asked pbug, not you. Is there any reason you feel the need to tell me what his reasons are, rather than let him express them himself?
I play the games rul gud.-
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