Besides, pirates freak me out. Not to mention that posting a picture of Tim Curry that's not in any way connected to the Rocky Horror Picture Show should be considered a crime against humanity.
Mini 255 - RajÔÇÖs Freaktown I (The Beginning)- GAMEOVER
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Hmm, maybe we should discuss tactics here, are we just gonna start random bandwagons to force people to roleclaim. That could help the scum a lot if we're unlucky. On the other hand we don't seem to have anything better to do at the moment.
I think our best option right now would be to try to keep the thread active, then we would have something better than complete randomness to go by. Atleast we could accuse anyone that's inactive, anyone that writes posts with little or no content, and anyone that writes something particularly scummy . In my opinion it's better than doing nothing, or starting a random bandwagon, which are the only things we've done so far.
How about we discuss some of the posting restrictions we've seen this far, maybe there's something there that could lead us in the direction of scum. I find Iammars' pirate thing a bit weird, but since i get the feeling Raj is a bit weird too, I don't know if it really makes him look more like scum, town or neither of the above.
Oh, well. That's my two cents I guess. Hopefully enough to start a discussion-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Bah! Ok, I guess we're all pretty confused, and have no idea what to look for, or even what to say that could be remotely useful. Heck, with as many killing groups as there seems to be, even the scum are most likely pretty much as clueless as the rest of us. That means that it will probably be hard to find scum based on their posts, since it would seem none of the scum know who the other scum are, and even if two of the scum know each other, that might be hard to spot in a game like this.
So I guess I don't see any other options to keep the conversation going than torandom vote: Chaos
I hope someone else has something more useful to add, but even if you don't please post your thoughts anyway.-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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I'm inclined to agree with you Stewie, I even contemplated suggesting it myself, but maybe some of the scum can get an advantage from it. I might be a bit paranoid, but for all I know that could be why you suggested it in the first place. Although I can't really suspect you for it when I thought about suggesting it myself.
What do the rest of you think? I think the town could learn a lot from it, but if anyone else (maybe with a bit more experience from games with posting restrictions than I have) thinks it's too risky, maybe we shouldn't.-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Well, considering the fact that despite everything this is supposed to be a regular mini, I suppose some weird winning condition (like winning when certain characters are killed) for a scum group is unlikely. So I guess I would have to agree with Stewie and Ranger, and I'll just claim right away since the day won't last forever.
I don't have a posting restriction at all. So the theory that everyone has one is pretty much void.-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one without a posting restriction, but care to explain your weird voting habits, if they're not caused by a restriction?LyingBrian wrote:i do not have a problem with us claiming posting restrictions, seems a good way to catch scum! saying that, i do not have a posting restriction!
Ranger, Putting a third vote on someone for the second time after you apologized for the first is pretty scummy.FOS: RangeroftheNorthThe only reason why it's not a vote is that much like Ranger, I have no idea how many votes people have right now.
oh, andunvote-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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What's weird is that you quoted my question about your voting habits, without answering it. Without writing anything else in the post in fact, and you've acted strange the entire game before that. In addition you've changed something in the quote both times you've quoted me now, and this while saying you don't have a posting restriction.
That's what's weird-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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We're running out of time. I think we may just have to put all our suspicions on the table, and take a chance on someone. It's very unfortunate, but I doubt something better will come along before the deadline.
Personally I think LyingBrian and ROTN are the most suspicious ones, but then again you have many players who haven't been as active, and might have held a low profile on purpose. Whatever the case might be, we don't have a lot of time to decide what to do. Voice your opinions and suspicions now, or we'll be forced to random lynch someone.-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Vote: LyingBrian
Your defence is basically that you're acting confusing on purpose, and that you've actually planned the spesifics of it as a "meta-game tactic"? If you actually spent time thinking about it, didn't it cross your mind that it isn't a great idea to confuse the town on purpose, except if you're scum that is. IMHO that is almost as bad as lying. The only thing you do is to take the town's attention away from finding scum, and make it even harder for the town to make sense of an already confusing game.
If someone can explain to me how LB's behaviour (which was obviously planned on some level) could help the town, please tell me and I'll let it go. But if nobody can, I certainly find it scummier than anything else we've seen Day 1.
By the way, I know I've put the third vote on LB, but like he himself pointed out, if someone were to speedlynch him, we would atleast know who we should lynch tommorow. I'd like to hear a roleclaim now.-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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If Raj wasn't the mod I'd probably doubt that claim, but since Raj, the only mod that can guarantee you a game with more killing groups than in Bosnia, kentuckian pirates and pictures of stuffed animals with disturbing anatomy, after all is the mod, I guess it's good enough for me.Unvote
We'll probably find out sooner or later if LyingBrian's "special ability" aka "super power" checks out or not.
But I can't stop myself from thinking that being immune to night-kills is a way too powerful ability for a townie, and that it might actually be a sign that he's scum, so I'llFOS: LyingBrian-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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I think one of Raj's real names is Alex, yes. Most likely the "a" in RajRaj is alex, right?
I also think we have to hurry up and lynch someone, time is running out, and if I understood the rules correctly there will be no lynch unless someone gets 5 votes on them, period.
So I'llvote: LyingBrianagain
The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. There can't possibly be a day killing group in this game considering the amount of night kills there was last night. That means that if LyingBrian was pro-town it would be impossible for the scum to win, unless the members of the hypotetical two-person mafia both remained untill the end with him. The other killing groups wouldn't be able to win at all.
How can a pro-town role be immune to night kills when we have so many different killing groups? The only explanations I can see are that either:
1. The scum have another winning conditions than "last group standing" which is normal, and we haven't been told about it.
2. There's actually just 1 killing group, they just get to kill 3 people, in completely different ways each night.
3. Raj messed up the layout for the game, and didn't think about the consequences of having an un-killable townie.
4. LyingBrian is scum, if he lied about his role or not.
If those are the options I'd guess option 4 is most likely. I just can't believe it's that easy. Am I missing something? Are there other options?
Since I'm pretty new at this I might be overlooking something obvious. Please correct me if I'm missing something. If I'm wrong I promise to apologise and hide under the table in shame, but if I'm right LyingBrian has to be scum.-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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I'm sorry if my post's length wasn't enough to convince you that I didn't just vote you "to get a lynch" as you put it. I'll try to make my explanation even longer next time. The only reason why I said "we need to hurry up and lynch someone" (I didn't choose the best way to say it, I'll give you that) is that we are in fact running out of time, and unless we want a no lynch we need to choose who should be lynched very soon.unvote
vote: Don Gaetano
voting for somebody just to get a lynch is not helpful to the town! also, my role is provable! nobody protect me, and somebody target me! if that happens, i can guarantee there will be at most 3 kills tomorrow morning! of course, that does not prove i'm scum or town, just that i did not lie about my ability! maybe the balance to my powerful role is that nobody will believe it?!?
When it comes to your role being provable. My point is that I believe you have the ability you say you have, expecially because of what Elvis has said, I just don't think you're pro-town. I can't understand how the game mechanics could allow a pro-town role that makes it impossible for the scum to win. The fact that you haven't been able to think of a plausible fifth option to the explanations I could think of in my last post doesn't make you look more innocent, either.
And I can't believe that Raj would think your role was balanced by the fact that nobody would believe it. Because that means that if we in fact did believe you, the game would be over and the town would've already won. Letting a mafia game be decided by the town's reaction to a single claim sounds like a terrible layout to me.
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By the way, I hope everyone understands that I don't think we should lynch LB right away. I atleast want to hear from people who maybe think a bit clearer than me, on how LB's role could work in the game if he is infact pro-town as he claims. But if nobody can think of a good explanation, then I guess today's lynch is a no-brainer.-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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I for one do not think Raj (or anyone else for that matter) would risk his entire game on the assumption that we would lynch LB in this situation. What if a bandwagon never formed against LB in the first place? What if nobody thought about the consequences a pro-town role would have on the setup? Raj might be unpredictable, and I agree with the point that we shouldn't try outguessing the mod, but having an un-killable townie without some sort of mechanism to get around it for the scum, would be idiotic.
The ONLY thing that makes me uncertain is precisly game mechanics. Is it possible that there is a game mechanism that would make the scum able to win even if LB can't be nightkilled? If someone with more experience than me can think of a scenario where the chances of such a mechanism existing are higher than slim to nothing, then fine, but if not, LB is scum. It's as simple as that.-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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The point is that this would be possible if there was only one killing group, but I hope you agree with me that it seems highly unlikely that there's only one killing group considering 3 people got killed last night in completely different ways. So if LB can't be killed during the night, that means that if one og the SK's remain untill the end with him there would have to be a draw, and the scum's only hope of winning would be that the town lynches LB at one time or the other.LB can be lynched...so they can just lynch him when there's nobody else to prevent it (i.e. other townies).
That does not make sense...
...I rest my case.-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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LB, if it turns out you're un-nightkillable that wouldn't help clear you at all. That's why it's a bad idea.
And if you really are pro-town wouldn't you understand why we think that a game where the scum can't win unless the town lynches you sounds unlikely? Does that make us idiots? If you should turn out innocent, I still wouldn't think we've done anything wrong by lynching you. I would just have a bunch of questions for Raj, when the game was over. It's kinda like a theme game where someone writes the name of their character wrong in a roleclaim. It might have been the Mod's mistake but the town still pretty much has to lynch the individual. If you understand what I'm getting at. It seems to me that either Raj's setup is even weirder than we could ever imagine (this is supposed to be a normal after all), or Raj screwed up the setup, or you're scum. To me the last option is most likely.
We've pretty much established that there has to be atleast 3 scum groups, if I thought there was only one I wouldn't think you were scum. Do you find it likely that there's one scum group that gets 3 kills each night and kill people in 3 completely different ways?[unless there are 2 scum groups])
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Time is REALLY running out, I hope someone's online to vote.-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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LyingBrian, the scum can massacre each other during the night, and I'm pretty sure we have a doc, a vig and a lot of other power roles. We might even have a backup cop.
But that really isn't the point. LB, either you haven't read my posts, or you're pretending to not understand what I'm saying. Let me spell it out for you.
The town can win without your role on our side (although it will be tough considering last night), but the scum wouldn't be able to win at all with your role on our side. Do you see the problem?
Oh, come on. If you were pro-town, wouldn't you understand where I'm coming from with this. The only logical solution to a un-nightkillable role is that you're scum. Now that ofcourse doesn't mean that I couldn't possibly be scum, but if you find it scummy for people to point out logicial solutions, then that's your problem.i don't like how Don Gaetano is gunning for me! i think he's scum trying to get rid of a powerful townie!
Good point Elvis. I atleast would hope that a female character is responible for that kill, and that certainly doesn't make LB look any less suspicious.I would like to say that I don't think raj would make one of his girls scum because he likes boobs too much. WAY too much.
On the other hand, somebody was killed with a vaginal cup last night. WHO THE HELL KILLS WITH A VAGINAL CUP?-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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I have seen one, fortunately not in use, and only in a picture. I read an article about it a few years ago. Apparently it's much more hygienic than tampons that can cause many health problems....I hope that doesn't mean you've seen one...
I'm think I'll leave it at that.
You know, you only see the positive sides. Strange enough, I still manage to forget my dentist appointments, and stuff like that. I just remember facts... every last one of them, and I can tell you that it's not as fun as it seems. Be careful what you wish for.And I wish I had a photographic memory. Might bring my Spanish grade up...-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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If there's only one scum group then the town has already lost, since they can kill three times each night. If there are more, then the town has a chance because they will eventually target each other and/or the same individual. So there has to be more than one scum group (most likely 3 considering the kills last night). If there are many scum groups. How can the scum win if there's an un-nightkillable townie? Except for a few HIGHLY unlikely scenarios, the best the scum could do is to hope for a draw. Doesn't that break the setup?-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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But if there's three or more scum groups. Then they would have to kill each other to win. If there was two scum and LB left, they would have to choose either to have a draw with LB or each other. They wouldn't be able to win.Did LB say he was Unlynchable? NO. When the scum has majority, they can lynch him with no opposition.-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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How could you help me? You mean help me during the night?Just say your role name. If it's a certain one, then I can help you.
But that would mean that the scum groups with less than two people wouldn't be able to win, and the chances of both members of one scum group surviving to the end, when there's two other scum groups out there are slim to nothing. (if there's a 2 person mafia and 2 serial killers that is)You're automatically assuming that the scum will always be down to max one scum per group at the end of the game, which may/may not be true. There is most likely a group of two or more out there, and if at least two of them survive, they can win.-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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I'm not trying to outguess the mod. Would you have been saying the same if you were in a mini where 3 people claimed doc, and someone assumed that someone had to be lieing? The mod could after all have put 3 docs into the game.STOP OUTGUESSING THE MOD
I'm just pointing out that a scenario where LB is pro-town is highly unlikely, at best.
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And my name is Jed, if it helps.-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Sadly (although not unexpectedly) it turned out to be true, RIP Iammars.Of course, you know that one of us is going to turn up dead tonight, just to simplify things...
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Why would anyone want to kill you LB. I think everyone agrees that your ability is most likely real considering what Elvis said. Why would scum waste their nightkill on finding out if you were lying or not? The scum would have no reason for trying to kill you if they thought you were lying, and if they thought you weren't lying it would be even more stupid to target you.well first things first...
darquiel, how many killers tried to kill me left their house?
Most likely:
1. Some scum groups can only kill every other night.
2. All the scum groups targeted Iammars, and we weren't told in the night scene.
3. The doc was successful.
4. A combination of two or all three of the above.
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That being said, please enlighten us, Darquiel.-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Sorry for the long post
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Well, I have to admit that my arguments against you are based on assumptions, but unless you have out-of-thread information, more or less all arguments in mafia are based on assumptions. However, I made my assumptions very clear, and nobody has explained to me what part of my assumptions are illogical.LyingBrian wrote:P.S. i really don't think you need to apologize to Don Gaetano, elvis_knits... his arguments still have holes, mostly assumptions...
I'll post my argument one last time to make everything clear.
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To make my argument valid, all of the following assumptions must be correct:
1. There's more than one scum group and atleast one serial killer in this game. (If not then 3 nightkills would be hard to explain)
2. Atleast one of the serial killers has to be the only person left in the game to win. (As is usualy the case)
4. LyingBrian can't be nightkilled. (Providing he's telling the thruth)
If those assumptions are correct, then my argument makes it IMHO almost impossible that LB is pro-town, so here goes:
If LB was pro-town and the town didn't lynch him (remember that we started the game with a cop, so his claim could easily have been proven) then the only way a serial killer could win would be if there were 3 scum left in the endgame. (if not, then the best thing a serial killer could hope for is a draw)
Since there's more than one scum group, the scum can kill each other at night, and we can lynch scum during the day. If you combine that with all the other facts in this game, the chances of there being 3 scum left in the endgame are so small that it wouldn't even be funny. (well of course they're higher now than they were when the game started, due to an unfortunate night and a no lynch ) If someone tried to calculate the odds, they would find out just how small the chances of that happening are. Simple logic tells you that it's way to close to zero.
Based on those assumptions and that argument, I'd say it would be a gamebreaker if LB was pro-town and un-nightkillable, and if he lied about his ability then "Lynch a Liar" applies.
Please tell me if I'm missing something here, yesterday a lot of people didn't agree with this argument, if people still don't agree then please tell me what you think is wrong with it. If people do agree with the assumptions, and can't find any mistakes in the argument, then LB more or less has to be scum.
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At the end I just want to repeat that I'd really like to know what part of my assumptions and argument people disagree with if they think it's wrong. If I'm mistaken then atleast tell me where the mistake is.-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Raj, could you please prod Logicticus, he hasn't posted for almost a week, but he has been very active in other games.
Maybe a polite PM to Darquiel as well. It's only been a few days but we're still waiting for his report on the night's activity.
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I guess there's not much to do untill we hear from them, but we don't want the day to end like yesterday now do we? So let's keep the conversation going. I suggest that everyone who agrees that LyingBrianseemsto be our best lynchat the momentsay so in the thread. Remember 50% of us are scum. So in my opinion our best strategy for today is to have a 3/4 majority that agree on who should get lynched (if possible of course, but we'll face that when we get there).
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I'm for lynching LyingBrian at the moment.
Why doesn't everone just write a short post saying if they agree or disagree.-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Ranger, it would've been extremely stupid for a SK to try to kill LB. Because if LB is un-nightkillable, he would've thrown his kill away, and if it did work, LB wouldn't be a problem for him anyway. I'm not saying that it's impossible that a SK tried it, but he would have to be an idiot. I think it's more likely that the doc got lucky.
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As for me being eager to lynch LB yesterday. It was because I believed (and I still believe) that I had a strong argument against him, combined with the fact that the deadline was approaching (the deadline I warned people about several times yesterday) and I didn't want the day to end with a No Lynch when we had good reason to suspect that LB was scum. In fact I got extremely frustrated with the town for letting a No Lynch happen, because of the following reasons:
1. You were so inactive during the entire day that we ended up without any clear suspects before the last couple of RL days.
2. More than half the town didn't even post a single time the last RL day, when we had to make a decission.
3. Elvis and Iammars who were active the last RL day (very active I might add) didn't think my argument against LB was good enough without ever explaining what part of my argument they didn't agree with.
So with a few hours left untill the deadline I was doing everything I could to get the player I was convinced was scum lynched. At the time I figured that both Elvis and Iammars were scum too. Since only scum would want the day to end with a no lynch when there's a strong case against a player.
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Oh, and LB, I really need the answer to the question I asked in my last post. Do you have a night ability you haven't told us about?-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Like I've pointed out several times today, any scum who tried to target LB tonight would be idiots. It would be pointless. The fact that he wasn't targeted doesn't make LB more suspicious or less suspicious. It only means that our killers aren't stupid.To be honest, I don't know what to do about LB. I'd be fine with voting him, except for the fact that if he really is pro-town, we're screwing ourselves majorly. I find it REALLY suspicious that only two people left their houses to kill last night. It means nobody went to try to kill LyingBrian. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks bad for LB. (Unless scum counted on this making him look bad, thus setting him up for a lynch).-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Why would a SK want to test him, and potentially throw their nightkill away? Even if they figured he was most likely lying about his ability, there would be no point in targetting him, as he wouldn't be a problem for them, if he didn't have the ability he claims he has.I thought they might test him. Who knows if he's telling the truth? He could be a lying SK for all I know.
It would be as stupid as the witch trials. "If she floats, she's a witch, and if she drowns she's innocent, and you've killed her for no reason"-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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- Location: Licata, Sicily
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Don Gaetano Goon
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- Posts: 302
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- Location: Licata, Sicily
No, the point is that they would have about a 80-90% chance of killing someone else and only 50% chance of killing LB. And if LB is lying then he isn't dangerous to the scum, and they would know that he might get lynched today anyway. It would be a very bad tactic for the scum to target LB.My point is that the mafia have no way on knowing if LyingBrian is town or SK, and also can't know if he is lying about his unkillable ability. So they might try to kill him. I mean, unless they are just trusting him, they might try to kill him.
No?
Si bella, we italians are a bit loud and annoying, but it's because we're a passionate people. Besides, you know I love youDon...I <3 you, even though we never agree. A relationship need passion, does it not?-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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As you wish.meh, i'm going to wait for Don Gaetano to respond to my post before i claim anything... i want to see if he'll give me another, "Just answer the question, please"...
Just answer the question, please.
You're not going to get anything else from me before you do infact answer the question.-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Based on LB's answers to my question, I'm getting more and more convinced that he's scum. If he's not, then he's played really, really bad for a townie, expecially if he had that role.
Normally, I want the day to last as long as possible, but now I'm getting more and more in favor of just lynching LB right away. IMHO LB is acting incredibly scummy by not answering the question. If he was pro-town, he could just tell us everything about his role, and the scum couldn't kill him anyway. But, if he's scum, he would be terrified to answer the question wrong, He would want to know what I know before he answers. Why would a pro-town player push for me to roleclaim before he answers that question, and give the scum even more information?
I'm going toVote: LyingBrian. He's had several opportunities to answer the question.-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Tomorrow there will be a mass claim, so that won't be a problem. Not that I see why I would have anymore explaining to do than anyone else. I've made my reasons for voting you very clear.Don Gaetano, RangeroftheNorth, & others will have serious explaining to do...
I've been thinking about not lynching LB today, because of the possibility that he's telling the truth, but the more I think about it, the more I realise that this is basically lynch or lose for the town. If LB turns out to be scum with the ability he claimed, we will have a good chance of winning tommorow. Also because the scum would be much more likely to kill each other during the night if the un-nightkillable scum gets lynched. If LB turns out to be innocent, we've most likely lost the game, but the same goes for lynching anyone else.-
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Don Gaetano Goon
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Don Gaetano Goon
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- Posts: 302
- Joined: November 17, 2005
- Location: Licata, Sicily
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Don Gaetano Goon
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- Posts: 302
- Joined: November 17, 2005
- Location: Licata, Sicily
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Don Gaetano Goon
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- Posts: 302
- Joined: November 17, 2005
- Location: Licata, Sicily
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Don Gaetano Goon
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- Posts: 302
- Joined: November 17, 2005
- Location: Licata, Sicily
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Don Gaetano Goon
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- Posts: 302
- Joined: November 17, 2005
- Location: Licata, Sicily