Friend wrote:vote: drmyshottyizsik
He's in every damn game I play.
And he is terrible in every one.
I agree. Redtail wagon is a go.SpyreX wrote:Right idea my murderin brospehs, wrong target.
It goes like this:
Unvote, Vote: Redtail896
Lies.Friend wrote:Cloudocean, dekes is a better vote.
This is fascinating. The wagon on you didn't start because you "haven't produced any content", so why do you act like that is what you're being attacked for? The wagon started because of your "is this a policy lynch" statement on page 1 followed by your terrible flailing in response to the pressure SpyreX generated on you.redtail896 wrote:Alright, I get it. I haven't produced any content, so you're going to lynch me. Well, that ends now. You'll probably lynch me anyway, but oh well.
Not sure exactly what "new" things I'm supposed to add on page 3. The probing you received on page 1 followed by your flailing responses make this a really great wagon. I'd like to point out again that you are attempting to make this wagon about "content" when it is nothing of the sort.-@LynchMePls: Same question. You just jump on the wagon without really adding anything anywhere.
Cause the reason is obv.Dekes wrote:PEdit: Lol, okay, ninja'd. I was about to vote LynchMePls, but he sort of gave a reason for voting (why not give the reason with your vote already?)
OMFG. Please read the thread. I dunno if anyone else is accusing him of "not contributing", but that isn't the case on him at all. Let me try to explain.pacman281292 wrote:Whoa, redtail is L-1...
I've just ISO'd redtail, in order to see how did this f***ing wagon make any sense.
The answer is: IT DOESN'T MAKE THE SLIGHTIEST SPECK OF SENSE.
Indeed, he i being accused of not contributing.You can ISO check anyone else, and find out that noone has even made anything.
For instance, Elli's 5 posts have been total BS, without the slightiest wish to contribute.
Friend voted him because he hadn't scumhunted at 2 pages of the game, in middle of RVS. I find that hard to do, if you ask me. Also he's being an hypocrite there.
---------
Just showing why does this wagon make absolutely nil sense. My random vote is happy where it is; elli hasn't contributed anything more than shouting, and even Friend has contributed at least a little.
Gonna make a more dedicated reread later (gotta check other games).
Ok, what I meant was "Redtail asked why people were voting you for asking about the policy lynch". The point is, Redtail got pressured by SpyreX and he squirmed like caught scum. You imply here that the two votes on Redtail weren't pressure. If thats the case, then his reaction is even MORE absurd. Look at his response to SpyreX's vote of him, plus his sudden twisting of the whole thing to "content" when content had nothing to do with why people found him suspicious. Add on top that he used the "not producing content" argument to try and smear other players in an attempt to push attention away from himself. You could literally feel the squirming coming right off the screen. All of that in response to what you imply wasn't even pressure ("two reasonless votes").Midnight's Sorrow wrote:Well if it looks like one, maybe it is amybe it isn't? That's why yuou ask questions. Duh!LynchMePls wrote: OMFG. Please read the thread. I dunno if anyone else is accusing him of "not contributing", but that isn't the case on him at all. Let me try to explain.
1) I made a vote that looked like a policy lynch.
First off this was me, not Red. Get your facts straight sir.LynchMePls wrote:2) Redtail says "is that a policy lynch?"
If you think two reasonless votes are pressure, then hunker me down and call me death blind and stupidLynchMePls wrote:3) Others find the question odd and pressure him.
Why don't we a-lie guilt on all that it applies to? Instead of a single case? Would make more sense, otherwise your just being a hypocriteLynchMePls wrote:4) Redtail flails about saying scummy things and trying vainly to deflect attention to others for "not contributing".
I'm not FOSing him simply because he doesn't agree with me. Others have disagreed with me and not gotten FOSed. Nice try at painting my FOS as scummy though.redtail896 wrote:@LynchMePls: Why are you FOSing Pacman simply because he doesn't agree with you?
What!? People are allowed to setup strawmen and then knock them down and no one is supposed to call them on it? That is the most illogical thing I've ever heard in my life.Dekes wrote:- bringing up that "no contribution" did not play a part in redtail's wagoning when it clearly has and attacking redtail for seemingly deflecting from the real reasoning when in fact redtail is entitled to believe he's being voted for not contributing
Also note how he admits that he was pointing out "other people I felt had produced even less content". So, even assuming that the argument was about him not producing content (which it wasn't) his reaction to that perceived case is still scummy. He attempts to deflect the conversation onto others, rather than make the rational argument that we weren't even 48 hours into the game, so saying someone hasn't produced content is pointless.redtail896 wrote:I genuinely thought that I was being persecuted for lack of content. I found this unfair, and so pointed out other people that I felt had produced even less content.
DOES NOT COMPUTE. You claim cloudocean says it first, but if you read that post you just linked to, he is quoting redtail saying something about not producing content. Which means redtail brought it up first. Reread the game, it isn't long. I've done it twice now, I know I'm right.Dekes wrote:EBWOP2: Thank god for cache.Just sayin' your continued assumption "not producing content" did not play part in the wagoning is wrong. First time somebody said that was not redtail, but cloudocean. And this was the only vote with a clearly defined reason besides Friend's (which was aiming in a similar direction).LynchMePls wrote:What!? People are allowed to setup strawmen and then knock them down and no one is supposed to call them on it? That is the most illogical thing I've ever heard in my life.
Feels more like you're strawmanning here in keeping on using this for your case against redtail.
ISO me. The game isn't even 6 pages long. I've even already made a recap post. If you can't follow that, then I don't think I can help you.pacman281292 wrote:So, if it's not that, what is the case then? Please enlight me.LynchMePls wrote:I'm not FOSing him simply because he doesn't agree with me. Others have disagreed with me and not gotten FOSed. Nice try at painting my FOS as scummy though.redtail896 wrote:@LynchMePls: Why are you FOSing Pacman simply because he doesn't agree with you?
I'm FOSing him because he repeated that tired line that you started about "not producing content" when the case against you has NOTHING TO DO WITH PRODUCING/NOT PRODUCING CONTENT. So I question why he accepts your premise that the argument is about "not producing content" when clearly that isn't what we're arguing about, and one of the conclusions I came to is that he could be a scum buddy trying to help reinforce your obfuscation of the issue.
What is even funnier is its clear that is why I'm FOSing him if you read the post I place the FOS. I clearly state that his assertion that the case on you is about not producing content is wrong, and I point out why.
Anyone who continues to claim that the case on Redtail is in any way based on him "not producing content" is either not paying attention, or is part of the problem.
And the fact that you thought it is what makes you scummy looking. Now you may claim its a misread of what Friend said, but the fact is YOU brought up that you hadn't been producing content, and then proceeded to fling the accusation at others in a game that was less than 48 hours old. Its called a guilty conscious. When my boss comes in and says "I need to talk to you about something" and I say "Ok, I know I took 15 extra minutes for lunch, but so did Steve, Mary, and Joe" it doesn't look good, regardless of whether my boss was coming in to talk about my lunch break or not.redtail896 wrote:Yes, you are. He saw part of the case as being about this whole "content" thing, and you said it wasn't and FOSed him.LynchMePls wrote:I'm not FOSing him simply because he doesn't agree with me. Others have disagreed with me and not gotten FOSed. Nice try at painting my FOS as scummy though.You're case might not have been based on that, but I though that that was a valid concern, for reasons that I've already explained. And you didn't bother explaining your case until relatively recently. So how could I possibly know?LynchMePls wrote:Anyone who continues to claim that the case on Redtail is in any way based on him "not producing content" is either not paying attention, or is part of the problem.
What you need to understand is that regardless of whether it was a part of the case or not, you are the one who tried to fling mud at others to remove suspicion of yourself. You really don't see how the deflection was scummy? I can't see a town motivation for deflection. If you are town, and you're doing something scummy, then either change the behavior or accept that people are going to think you are scummy. But by saying "Well, those people over there are doing it too and they're even worse" it looks like you are desperate to have the attention anywhere but on you.What you need to understand is that regardless of what was meant, I thought that this was a key element of the case. I've explained why I thought that. Might I have been misreading people? Sure. Friend has already claimed that I misread him. But I don't think that it was an unreasonable conclusion to come to. Especially since for quite some time nobody bothered to explain why I was so scummy.
As for the deflection thing: I disagree that it's scummy. I thought I was being persecuted for X, and I pointed out that other people had also done X but even moreso, so my accusers were being inconsistent. That's it. That's the entire thing.
BTW: what do you think about my response to your actual case?
MS please try and follow along. No one has a problem with him asking why he's being voted for. We have a problem with him asking why others were voting for you as though he couldn't tell what they were doing, then his reaction to the pressure he received, plus his admission to not producing content (even though no one had accused him of it) combined with his attempt to deflect that onto others. Do you really not get it?Midnight's Sorrow wrote:@LMP
It's actually more accurately called, "Eyebrow raising WTFery"
So one can not askwhyhe is being voted on without being called scum for it? Whathasthis game come too?
*looks at the vote patterns so far* Ohh...I guess that explains everything then >.>
redtail896 wrote:Cool. Have fun with that.
I found it curious that Nexus chose to use the same phrase that redtail used. Not sure if it means anything, but I thought I'd point this out for future reference.Nexus wrote:Oh, just my opinions. Alright then. Have fun with that.
My ISO is 18 posts long, and most of them past ISO7 deal with redtail. Why did you stop at post 7? Also why do you say my reasoning is entirely in ISO2, when I specifically spell out what happened that caused my vote in ISO7 (with some clarifying in the following posts). Also, even redtail admits that I'm one of the people on his wagon that have actually explained why. If he can see it, why can't you?pacman281292 wrote:Gah. It's really really hard to read thru all the bickering war and screampost fluff around there.
I'm making a more dedicated reread tomorrow, sorry.
@LMP: I found in your ISO:
ISO0: RVS
ISO1: RVS, REDTAIL WAGON IS GO!
ISO2:Is this your reasoning?This is fascinating. The wagon on you didn't start because you "haven't produced any content", so why do you act like that is what you're being attacked for? The wagon started because of your "is this a policy lynch" statement on page 1 followed by your terrible flailing in response to the pressure SpyreX generated on you.
*does not compute*
redtail's wagon pages 1-2 was just nonsense at RVS. Then, he misthinks it's a policy lynch (nulltell) and you just pile up on him for that??
Also, "his terrible flailing in response to the pressure SpyreX generated"? I can't see that either. I see him as confused noobtown or noobnull at worst.
*ahem*
ISO3: Reason is obv.
ISO4: We're 24 hours into the game, so we don't need content. BZZZZT TRY AGAIN.
ISO5: I think you refer to MS's meta here...
ISO6: "MS is acting according to meta"
ISO7: I first think that redtail's wagon is for him not contributing (I admit, that read was biased because of the post where he said it was for that. That post is wrong, but still your reasoning for the wagon is fail). Then you FoS me for misinterpreting.
I think this post cleans that, no?
.
.
.
So your reasoning for voting redtail is entirely within ISO2. And it isn't enough strong IMO.
Sorry, but you didn't convince me of jumping into the wagon. Meh.
This list is absolutely correct. If there aren't two scum in that group, I'll probably quit mafia forever. Probably...SpyreX wrote:MS, Red, Nexus, Pacman.
There is most likely 2 if not more scum in that group. I don't even care which order they die as long as they all become the dead real soon. If you need an essay on why sure I'll give it but I'd rather skip past all the blah blah to the dead-dead. (Psssst SK's that are prepping for vig-fakeclaims KILLING FROM THIS LIST IS A SUREFIRE WAY TO SUCCESS).
I just reread the game. redtail is still scum.Red has fell off the face of the earth after the stall there. SHOCK AND AWE.
The problem with MS is he plays every game this way. I think he gets some sort of perverse enjoyment out of being an obstructionist. He doesn't actually want to contribute, he just wants to sit around naysaying everyone who is actually contributing. His list is just all the people he disagrees with. In MS's world disagreeing with him is scummy.MS, the lord defender, is finding all kinds of scum: TBM, LMP, me and Friend! AWESOME! Yegads!
Nexus is getting worse by the post.Nexus, well, lets just go ahead and say iso from post 1 on.
Quite right, although I'm not sure I agree that his ardent defense "feels right". That said, I just finished a reread of the game, and redtail scum is so obv its sick. Nexus is my new #2. MS and Pacman are for vigging (if we could be so lucky).Pacman's ardent defense of the Red lynch feels right (or at least more right than others) but talk about not wanting to step on toes? A FoS is worth about nothing... a slight FoS? What?
They're whole point is that my bringing it up at all was useless, yet you seem to imply that you would actually have changed your behavior if you were scum. We're saying it's bs, no one would actually change which words they used there.Nexus wrote:Because, obviously, if I am wording it the same as someone who is also seen as scum, despite the fact I'm not scum, means that I get suspicion on me.
No it wasn't. And this I told you so looks like informed minority.pacman281292 wrote:Humm... TBM's flip didn't surprise me much, but Elli's does (somewhat).
Also I TOLD YA THE REDWAGON WAS STOOOPID.
Gotta reread.
Just ISO'ed you. Please show me where you say anything that indicates that TBM's flip shouldn't have surprised you. Your only interaction with him is slight at best.pacman281292 wrote:Humm... TBM's flip didn't surprise me much, but Elli's does (somewhat).
Also I TOLD YA THE REDWAGON WAS STOOOPID.
Gotta reread.
But you never prior to today said anything to that effect. If he was "acting in a really scummy way" why didn't you say so and push his lynch? Instead you basically spent yesterday taking no firm stands except that Redtail is town, which is why I say it reads to me like someone who is a part of the informed minority.pacman281292 wrote:You're soooo funny...LynchMePls wrote:Just ISO'ed you. Please show me where you say anything that indicates that TBM's flip shouldn't have surprised you. Your only interaction with him is slight at best.pacman281292 wrote:Humm... TBM's flip didn't surprise me much, but Elli's does (somewhat).
Also I TOLD YA THE REDWAGON WAS STOOOPID.
Gotta reread.
Pacman lynch is really good guys, he is clearly TBM's buddy. Just ISO him. It's awesome.
I'm annoyed because of something at another game. So I won't make a more elaborated response until later. I will only say: TBM was acting in a really scummy way, his attack on me sucked (call me OMGUSer, but you'll find out it's true) and redtail didn't actually deserve that lynch.
It's a holiday weekend in the USA. That probably accounts for it.pacman281292 wrote:No posts in 12+ hours.
In a BaM game.
Heh.
This vote is terrible. You are scum. Possibly with MS.Well, found the case, here:Indeed. That vote flip was really odd. However, this case isn't enough strong IMO. It would warrant aFriend wrote:So buttonmen had two major targets - MS and pacman. The question here is which one is he bussing?
I don't think he'd say:
About a scumbuddy at a point where lynching was going to happen pretty soon - it did kind of come out of nowhere. But, I don't see him shying away from bussing MS early in the game after his scummy early-game play, and then letting the more powerful wagon "win out" if you know what I mean.TheButtonmen wrote:Dear Death Awesome Pact.
Please all vote Pacman.
-Sincerely TheButtonmen
More MS scumminess here, at the L-1 vote:
After defending Red REALLY FUCKIN STAUNCHLY for 11 pages, you suddenly flip when you realize the wagon is going somewhere? Seems to me like you couldn't make up your mind between distancing from the mislynch or actively pushing it. That level of flip-flopping deserves a:Midnight's Sorrow wrote:^How convenient /jk
Pressure is good. It's when a bad case gets pushed to high heaven that it becomes bad.Dekes-san wrote: I don't like how MS is trying to prevent anyone from applying pressure. Pressuring is one of the most effective methods for town especially Day 1 to draw out scum slips. Sometimes people have to pick on minimal things to see how people react to it.
That said, Redtail is showing...*gasp*actualscum behavior since his wagon dispersed and went else where, by not posting and just plain lurking. Nowthisis something I can put my vote on.
Unvote
Vote: Red
vote: Midnight's SorrowFoS: MSif much.
cloud just blindly buying that case IS actually something very scummy. It seemed like he was looking for a "good" excuse to vote MS, instead of thinking by himself. Also, he has contributed almost nothing, almost all his posts have been jumping into the most popular wagon (in fact, his vote for me, then for MS, looked like "oh well, pac is getting wagoned, so it's a GO... OH WAIT he isn't then it's MS because there is a case"). The only person he at least tried to put a case for was redtail, and that "case" was also terribly bad.
Vote: cloudocean
If the rules of forum mafia allowed, I'd probably take you up on this.pacman281292 wrote:Wanna make it a bet?LynchMePls wrote:Can we please lynch Pacman? I want to hear from SpyreX and Friend on this subject. Trust me guys, he is scum.
Agreed. MS wagon is really good. When he flips scum, Pacman goes up beside him.Friend wrote:That does look like it could be the classic FoS buddy vote townie move up there in pacman's post...
Your story about TBM is changing. Before it was "well, I felt he was scum, but I thought people would cry OMGUS if I voted him" and now it's "it got stronger when I was rereading during the night". Well which is it? Did you think he was scum yesterday, or did it occur to you during a reread last night. If the latter, please post links to the TBM posts that strengthened your scum read. If the former, why are you changing your story now?pacman281292 wrote:Well, I got more confidence while making an overnight reread. So that's it.Friend wrote:So how does unconfident translate to "I knew he would flip scum!"lol.LynchMePls wrote:2 scum in {Pacman, MS, Dekes}
Just saying.BZZZZT! Try again!LynchMePls wrote:Agreed. MS wagon is really good. When he flips scum, Pacman goes up beside him.Friend wrote:That does look like it could be the classic FoS buddy vote townie move up there in pacman's post...
I think I explained why the hell was I voting cloud, and that I didn't vote MS because I felt cloud scummier.
LMP, stop tunneling me. Your case started on something very minimal, and the way you're trying to keep it up is starting to go pointless. Put it down. Like, NAO.
Lets see, you try and stall any useful wagonning at the beginning of D1, you distance from the redtail wagon, and then pull a 180 the moment you can conveniently get onboard, there is likely bussing behavior from TBM in your direction, and you sit around making a lot of small comments that do nothing to move the game forward (actually quite the opposite, they are all obstructionist) to look like you are participating when you aren't. Lets add on top the fact that you feel the need to jump in any time someone calls you scum to "defend" yourself, but still never actually contribute to finding scum. Oh, and you attack Cloudocean (the easy lurker target who also happens to be town) instead of making any legitimately useful attempt to help us catch scum.Midnight's Sorrow wrote:Hearing alot of 'Ms is scum" but nary a reason why. I wonder why that is?
This post by itself should be enough to swing you.Midnight's Sorrow wrote:Someone ones blowing a gasket o_0
Calm the fuck down son, before you post again.
First off I didn't stall the 'useful' bandwagons in the beginning of D1. I asked why any sane person would vote the way they did past getting conversation started. Some people stuck with the stupid as their reason for voting the way they did that went into the whole day. I can understand getting things out of the RVS stage, but that was little silly.
Second, the vote for red. Why on earth do you assume someone puts someone at L-1 for? Must it always be spelled out? Any written statements?
Thirdly, the TBM bus connection? Are you fucking kidding me? Sounds too much like a little something something if you tell me .-.
Fourthly, I guess I should just let people go by calling me scum without calling them on it? Again, are you fucking kidding me? How else do we play the game then?
Lastly, the small responses? What the fuck? Some peoples eyes need checked, and soon. (Ys sir! I'm looking at you LPM~ )
So no, not really son.
Try again.
This post is BEGGING for a lynch guys.Midnight's Sorrow wrote:'He just is'....Seriously? Thats all you can say?
You do realize in a game where no one should know who anybody is, that comes off as highly suspect right?
*prepares his big stick for is surly gonna be more LMP BS*
Your suspect list consists of lurker, lurker, and obv-scum. You have nothing new or fresh to offer to this game?inHimshallibe wrote:I 'umbly request entry into the Murder Death Pact.
A WILD SUSPECT LIST APPEARS.
cloudocean
drmyshottyizsik
Midnight's Sorrow
No, I wanted you to offer something new to the game, not parrot the same things everyone else has said, all while asking to be in the murder death pact. Alright, I suggest a new course of action.inHimshallibe wrote:Bleh, this post is bad. You ask for my suspects, and I hand them out.LynchMePls wrote:Your suspect list consists of lurker, lurker, and obv-scum. You have nothing new or fresh to offer to this game?inHimshallibe wrote:I 'umbly request entry into the Murder Death Pact.
A WILD SUSPECT LIST APPEARS.
cloudocean
drmyshottyizsik
Midnight's Sorrow
+1 SK point.
You wanted me to say:
???Suspects:
Friend
SpyreX
Dekes
You think that kill was a vig? Why?inHimshallibe wrote:[/b]Funny, I had you down as the vig. I suppose that's
I no longer feel good about this wagon.Midnight's Sorrow wrote:Re-read done.
Unvote
Vote: InHim
Still want to hear from cloud, but that doesn't seem likely.