Mini 1033 - Paradise Mafia: Over

[LimMePls]

@LynchMePls: Why are you FOSing Pacman simply because he doesn't agree with you?

I'm not FOSing him simply because he doesn't agree with me. Others have disagreed with me and not gotten FOSed. Nice try at painting my FOS as scummy though.

I'm FOSing him because he repeated that tired line that you started about "not producing content" when the case against you has NOTHING TO DO WITH PRODUCING/NOT PRODUCING CONTENT. So I question why he accepts your premise that the argument is about "not producing content" when clearly that isn't what we're arguing about, and one of the conclusions I came to is that he could be a scum buddy trying to help reinforce your obfuscation of the issue.

What is even funnier is its clear that is why I'm FOSing him if you read the post I place the FOS. I clearly state that his assertion that the case on you is about not producing content is wrong, and I point out why.

Anyone who continues to claim that the case on Redtail is in any way based on him "not producing content" is either not paying attention, or is part of the problem.

[Dekes]

Finally more people with common sense who read the thread from a neutral perspective instead of tunnelvisioning into every little detail no matter how illogical and far-fetched it might be.
First off, a couple of quotes:

Would make sense, sense this game has so many people I have nthing against a quicklynch. Lots of info

If he dosnt claim and give a good defence in the next 3 posts I'll hammer

anyway

unvote

happening too fast

I still do have that one obvscumread and that one obvtownread but ... bleh, I'll deal with this later.

Why, thank you for keeping your obvscumread to yourself. That surely is beneficial for town's scumhunting.

Translation: I haven't shown any interest in scumhunting/desire to pressure, but I'm not scum because some people have even less of a desire to do so than myself!

I'd like to see quotes where you have produced 'content.'

vote:redtail

I don't see how redtail could not think here it was not about producing content.

With that being said, I'm going back to my original intetion:

Vote: LynchMePls

for
- Hopping onto the wagon at a seemingly inconspicuous moment without any reason
- bringing up that "no contribution" did not play a part in redtail's wagoning when it clearly has and attacking redtail for seemingly deflecting from the real reasoning when in fact redtail is entitled to believe he's being voted for not contributing
- instead of a) staying out of the argument and Friend (which is imo pointless) or b) taking a stance in it simply trying to discredit MS using her meta
-> scum joining in a prominent wagon aiming for a quick easy mislynch based on nothing to leave town with little information on Day 2

Also, I'd like to hear more from Nexus and Buttonmen.
Nexus just popped in when being attacked for no contribution by redtail. But instead of taking matters into her hand she sits back and waits for other people to answer questions that has been asked by others. Wow...talk about not willing to scumhunt.
Buttonmen practically voted for MS and has disappeared since then.

[LimMePls]

- bringing up that "no contribution" did not play a part in redtail's wagoning when it clearly has and attacking redtail for seemingly deflecting from the real reasoning when in fact redtail is entitled to believe he's being voted for not contributing

What!? People are allowed to setup strawmen and then knock them down and no one is supposed to call them on it? That is the most illogical thing I've ever heard in my life.

Redtail is the one who brought up the whole "not producing content". He even admits it here:

I genuinely thought that I was being persecuted for lack of content. I found this unfair, and so pointed out other people that I felt had produced even less content.

Also note how he admits that he was pointing out "other people I felt had produced even less content". So, even assuming that the argument was about him not producing content (which it wasn't) his reaction to that perceived case is still scummy. He attempts to deflect the conversation onto others, rather than make the rational argument that we weren't even 48 hours into the game, so saying someone hasn't produced content is pointless.

Your continued defense of redtail is noted. Friend may have been on to something here.

[Nexus]

I'm a guy *wanders back in*

I can see why people are on the wagon for Redtail, because of how defensive Redtail was getting 'cos of the wagon. I can't say whether that's a scumtell or not, though, because I'd get as defensive if it was me. Town defend themselves vociferously if they are being attacked, particularly when at L-1. Scum would also defend themselves with the same vigour, so I can't really call it a definite scum tell, which is why I didn't hammer.

Although, redtail then trying to get suspicion on me for the same reasons as to why he thought he was being attacked-why is it ok for me/others to be attacked 'cos of that but you can't?

I can understand why LmP FoS'ed pacman.

I'm trying to decide whether redtail is simply being defensive he's town and trying to defend himself badly, or if he's scum. I'm going to hold off for a bit longer.

Elli: He voted Red tail. Then...thinking he would put him at L-1...voted again. I'm assuming that was a genuine mistake, but as you were already on the wagon, you wouldn't have put him on L-1 anyway...I'd also like to hear his obvscum and obvtown reads. Rather than just saying "I have them." why not just tell us who they are?

[Dekes]

- bringing up that "no contribution" did not play a part in redtail's wagoning when it clearly has and attacking redtail for seemingly deflecting from the real reasoning when in fact redtail is entitled to believe he's being voted for not contributing

What!? People are allowed to setup strawmen and then knock them down and no one is supposed to call them on it? That is the most illogical thing I've ever heard in my life.

Redtail is the one who brought up the whole "not producing content". He even admits it here:

I genuinely thought that I was being persecuted for lack of content. I found this unfair, and so pointed out other people that I felt had produced even less content.

Also note how he admits that he was pointing out "other people I felt had produced even less content". So, even assuming that the argument was about him not producing content (which it wasn't) his reaction to that perceived case is still scummy. He attempts to deflect the conversation onto others, rather than make the rational argument that we weren't even 48 hours into the game, so saying someone hasn't produced content is pointless.

Your continued defense of redtail is noted. Friend may have been on to something here.

[Dekes]

EBWOP: What the fuck? I swear the post looked fine before I hit Submit...had to log in again first though. Gimme a minute here to re-write.

[Dekes]

EBWOP2: Thank god for cache.

What!? People are allowed to setup strawmen and then knock them down and no one is supposed to call them on it? That is the most illogical thing I've ever heard in my life.

Just sayin' your continued assumption "not producing content" did not play part in the wagoning is wrong. First time somebody said that was not redtail, but cloudocean. And this was the only vote with a clearly defined reason besides Friend's (which was aiming in a similar direction).
Feels more like you're strawmanning here in keeping on using this for your case against redtail.

Redtail is the one who brought up the whole "not producing content". He even admits it here:

Also note how he admits that he was pointing out "other people I felt had produced even less content"..

Already stated by me and I said I didn't like it one bit.

Your continued defense of redtail is noted. Friend may have been on to something here.

Seems like somebody is hurt for being called out on his crappy case. Is there someone else you noted as scummy besides people not voting for redtail.

[LimMePls]

EBWOP2: Thank god for cache.

What!? People are allowed to setup strawmen and then knock them down and no one is supposed to call them on it? That is the most illogical thing I've ever heard in my life.

Just sayin' your continued assumption "not producing content" did not play part in the wagoning is wrong. First time somebody said that was not redtail, but cloudocean. And this was the only vote with a clearly defined reason besides Friend's (which was aiming in a similar direction).
Feels more like you're strawmanning here in keeping on using this for your case against redtail.

DOES NOT COMPUTE. You claim cloudocean says it first, but if you read that post you just linked to, he is quoting redtail saying something about not producing content. Which means redtail brought it up first. Reread the game, it isn't long. I've done it twice now, I know I'm right.

[Dekes]

DOES NOT COMPUTE. You claim cloudocean says it first, but if you read that post you just linked to, he is quoting redtail saying something about not producing content. Which means redtail brought it up first. Reread the game, it isn't long. I've done it twice now, I know I'm right.

And redtail was referring to Friend's post who was basically saying the same thing ("Refusal of scumhunting" = "refusal of adding content").
Plus, cloudocean used specifically that reason to vote for redtail and yet you still refuse to acknowledge it had absolutely nothing to do with why redtail was being attacked. Reread the thread, it isn't long. Maybe you catch everything the third time.

[LimMePls]

I think what Friend was trying to say is that redtail was acting like pressuring MS was bad, when it was actually good. I don't think Friend was trying to say that redtail wasn't contributing, he was saying that redtail seemed to want to stop others from pressuring/scumhunting. Redtail was the one who turned that into an attack that he wasn't "prodcuing content".

Either way, as I say in 127, the point can be conceded and redtail STILL looks like scum. If he felt like he was being attacked for not producing content a little over 24 hours into the game, then why wouldn't you say "I have been producing content, I've made several posts in a game that is barely 24 hours old and I'm still making posts now" or "What does my content level have to do with your votes on MS" or something along those lines. But he doesn't do that, instead he actually admits to the charge that he hasn't been producing content and then tries to deflect by saying that others also weren't producing content. That is scummy as hell.

[Midnight's Sorrow]

If you can call it pressure, maybe.

I don't think I will ever understand how deflection is scummy. Never in a million years.

[quote="LMP]If he felt like he was being attacked for not producing content a little over 24 hours into the game, then why wouldn't you say "I have been producing content, I've made several posts in a game that is barely 24 hours old and I'm still making posts now" or "What does my content level have to do with your votes on MS" or something along those lines.[/quote]

Maybe because this is the obvious, and the obvious shouldn't really have to be stretched any father then it needs to be

[Midnight's Sorrow]

Oh and by the way.

BY the waay

I 'm a guy yo dekes' >.>/mario accent.

[Friend]

About my comment to redtail: What LMP said.

[pacman281292]

@LynchMePls: Why are you FOSing Pacman simply because he doesn't agree with you?

I'm not FOSing him simply because he doesn't agree with me. Others have disagreed with me and not gotten FOSed. Nice try at painting my FOS as scummy though.

I'm FOSing him because he repeated that tired line that you started about "not producing content" when the case against you has NOTHING TO DO WITH PRODUCING/NOT PRODUCING CONTENT. So I question why he accepts your premise that the argument is about "not producing content" when clearly that isn't what we're arguing about, and one of the conclusions I came to is that he could be a scum buddy trying to help reinforce your obfuscation of the issue.

What is even funnier is its clear that is why I'm FOSing him if you read the post I place the FOS. I clearly state that his assertion that the case on you is about not producing content is wrong, and I point out why.

Anyone who continues to claim that the case on Redtail is in any way based on him "not producing content" is either not paying attention, or is part of the problem.

So, if it's not that, what is the case then? Please enlight me.

[Ellibereth]

OK
TIME TO TRY THIS THREAD AGAIN

[Ellibereth]

OK
I TRIED TO SKIM AND STILL CONFUZZLED
HAVE TO TAKE THIS SLOWLY NOW...

Why, thank you for keeping your obvscumread to yourself. That surely is beneficial for town's scumhunting.

No prob. Will keep doing so.

Elli: He voted Red tail. Then...thinking he would put him at L-1...voted again. I'm assuming that was a genuine mistake, but as you were already on the wagon, you wouldn't have put him on L-1 anyway...I'd also like to hear his obvscum and obvtown reads. Rather than just saying "I have them." why not just tell us who they are?

That was on purpose.
Nah.

THEY'LL BE SHROUDED IN MYSTEEEEEEEEERY.

Redtail is still prob scum.
So is Shotty.
Friend is town.
So is Spyspy.
I dunt get cloud's latest posts which weren't that lately.
Midnight is consistent with the midnight I know. I don't think I've known Midnight scum yet though..
HEY DO YOU HAVE ANY SCUM META?
Not sure on Lynch.
Dekes should be town.
Dunno on button or pacman.

Ok not as many townreads as I hoped ugh.

Oh yeah, red, do you have any past scumgames too?

[Midnight's Sorrow]

My siggy says I do. =/

[Ellibereth]

I DON'T READ YOUR SIGGY
I READ YOUR AVVY

:p

[Midnight's Sorrow]

I wonder why!

[LimMePls]

@LynchMePls: Why are you FOSing Pacman simply because he doesn't agree with you?

I'm not FOSing him simply because he doesn't agree with me. Others have disagreed with me and not gotten FOSed. Nice try at painting my FOS as scummy though.

I'm FOSing him because he repeated that tired line that you started about "not producing content" when the case against you has NOTHING TO DO WITH PRODUCING/NOT PRODUCING CONTENT. So I question why he accepts your premise that the argument is about "not producing content" when clearly that isn't what we're arguing about, and one of the conclusions I came to is that he could be a scum buddy trying to help reinforce your obfuscation of the issue.

What is even funnier is its clear that is why I'm FOSing him if you read the post I place the FOS. I clearly state that his assertion that the case on you is about not producing content is wrong, and I point out why.

Anyone who continues to claim that the case on Redtail is in any way based on him "not producing content" is either not paying attention, or is part of the problem.

So, if it's not that, what is the case then? Please enlight me.

ISO me. The game isn't even 6 pages long. I've even already made a recap post. If you can't follow that, then I don't think I can help you.

Do you have anything new to offer to the game?

[Friend]

Dekes "should be town," Elli? Meh agree to disagree.

[redtail896]

I'm not FOSing him simply because he doesn't agree with me. Others have disagreed with me and not gotten FOSed. Nice try at painting my FOS as scummy though.

Yes, you are. He saw part of the case as being about this whole "content" thing, and you said it wasn't and FOSed him.

Anyone who continues to claim that the case on Redtail is in any way based on him "not producing content" is either not paying attention, or is part of the problem.

You're case might not have been based on that, but I though that that was a valid concern, for reasons that I've already explained. And you didn't bother explaining your case until relatively recently. So how could I possibly know?

What you need to understand is that regardless of what was meant, I thought that this was a key element of the case. I've explained why I thought that. Might I have been misreading people? Sure. Friend has already claimed that I misread him. But I don't think that it was an unreasonable conclusion to come to. Especially since for quite some time nobody bothered to explain why I was so scummy.

As for the deflection thing: I disagree that it's scummy. I thought I was being persecuted for X, and I pointed out that other people had also done X but even moreso, so my accusers were being inconsistent. That's it. That's the entire thing.

BTW: what do you think about my response to your actual case?

Although, redtail then trying to get suspicion on me for the same reasons as to why he thought he was being attacked-why is it ok for me/others to be attacked 'cos of that but you can't?

If people want to use it as a reason for attack, then that's fine. I just want them to use it consistently. I had a problem with being attacked for X while people ignored others who were blatantly doing X also. I'm just saying that if it makes me suspicious, it makes plenty of other people suspicious as well.

@Elli: why am I prob scum? Also, I don't actually think the thread is that confusing to follow.

[redtail896]

[quote="Ellibereth"Oh yeah, red, do you have any past scumgames too?[/quote]
[url=http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14486]Mini 1003 just ended. It's my only scumgame on the site. Have at it.

[redtail896]

EBWOP: since I messed up every single formatting thing in the previous post

Mini 1003

[TheButtonmen]

Back, catching up now.

I forgot to declare my V/LA in this thread, sorry.

Post by tonight.